:01:38. > :01:48.Gough and in the southeast corner canoe afford to keep it using the
:01:48. > :01:48.
:01:48. > :35:18.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2010 seconds
:35:18. > :35:23.Hello. This is the programme for the South East. How much more can
:35:23. > :35:29.you afford to pay go you drink it? There is another big rise on the
:35:29. > :35:36.way, but Kent MPs argue that you should be exempt. Joining us is
:35:36. > :35:42.that Norman Baker and Paul Clark, who was Labour MP for Gillingham
:35:42. > :35:46.from 1997 until the last election. Welcome to both a view. Let's start
:35:46. > :35:55.with Nick Clegg. Two years ago, you'd he's our reviewers by
:35:55. > :36:00.suggesting that you might consider resigning over tuition fees. It --
:36:00. > :36:07.you teased our viewers. The camera is all yours. Do you want to say
:36:07. > :36:10.sorry today? This is our biggest mistake. We made a promise with the
:36:10. > :36:15.best of intentions. We could not deliver and we should not have made
:36:16. > :36:21.a promise that we could not deliver. The other two parties wanted to
:36:21. > :36:26.increase the fees and we cannot get a deal on it and it was a deeply
:36:26. > :36:31.disturbing moment for me. I was not teasing voters. I was very close to
:36:31. > :36:38.resigning. I think Nick Clegg had been absolutely right to make an
:36:38. > :36:42.apology. Two and a half years later? People are prepared to
:36:42. > :36:47.listen to him now and I think he is right to do it and I think people
:36:47. > :36:53.will respect that he said that when most politicians would and. Let us
:36:53. > :36:58.not forget that this -- most politicians would not. Let us not
:36:58. > :37:08.forget that in 2001 the Government promised there would be in no top
:37:08. > :37:11.
:37:11. > :37:19.up fees. He broke two promises. your broker to promises. Finds the
:37:19. > :37:25.response that there has been across the internet end terms of a parody
:37:25. > :37:32.is that have been done on the hollow apology, it is a hollow
:37:32. > :37:38.apology and that is how it is being seen. This is one U-turn. This was
:37:38. > :37:42.not after the election. There is documented evidence that Danny
:37:42. > :37:50.Alexander said that we would not go to the wire on this if we were in a
:37:50. > :37:56.coalition. The whole point, of course, was to win back support. He
:37:56. > :38:03.wanted to wipe the slate clean with this apology. How big is the task
:38:03. > :38:13.and the southeast? In 2000 m, Labour got 30 % of the vote -- go
:38:13. > :38:21.into 1010, Labour got 30 % of the vote. The Liberal Democrats had to
:38:21. > :38:27.seats. -- two seat. Recent opinion polls gave the Conservatives 33 %
:38:27. > :38:32.and the Liberal Democrats 11 %. If people in the South East vote along
:38:32. > :38:36.those lines, Labour would gain six seats from the Conservatives and
:38:36. > :38:41.the Green Party and the Liberal Democrats will at least -- lose 1.
:38:42. > :38:51.This does not take into account local variations. We have been to
:38:52. > :38:53.
:38:53. > :38:58.Eastbourne this week to find out how serious the situation really is.
:38:58. > :39:05.This is one of the sunniest places in Britain, and in recent years,
:39:05. > :39:10.the Sun has been shining on the Liberal Democrats here. This is one
:39:10. > :39:15.of the most will rubble at Lib Dem seats. The Lib Dems have often been
:39:15. > :39:21.the party of the protest vote, benefiting from disillusioned Left
:39:21. > :39:25.wing of and right-wing voters. But now their high profile is losing
:39:25. > :39:31.them support. This man used to be the mayor of Eastbourne and a Lib
:39:31. > :39:41.Dem, but he recently joined the Labour Party. I was a liberal back
:39:41. > :39:41.
:39:41. > :39:50.in the early 60s and then I became a Lib Dem. I switched, first of all,
:39:50. > :39:55.because I thought it was a wrong of the Lib Dem at leadership to go
:39:55. > :40:01.into a coalition. Then Ed Miliband was elected and wanted to get back
:40:01. > :40:06.to socialist principles and that is what I wanted to go to the Labour
:40:06. > :40:15.Party. I think that people did not vote for a right wing party and
:40:15. > :40:18.they feel betrayed. He has not the only one to jump ship. Lib Dem
:40:18. > :40:23.membership in the southeast has increased, but will the voters
:40:23. > :40:29.trade in their support as well? At this market, we spoke to 20 people
:40:29. > :40:34.who voted Lib Dem end the last general election and three-quarters
:40:34. > :40:38.said they would vote for them again and one-quarter said they would not.
:40:38. > :40:42.The main reason given was because the party joined the coalition. If
:40:42. > :40:47.this pattern was followed in the whole constituency, the Lib Dems
:40:47. > :40:52.could lose their seat. I feel disillusioned. I think they make
:40:52. > :40:55.lots of promises that were very important. I devoted Lib Dem
:40:55. > :41:02.tactically because I thought they would help Labour but it went the
:41:02. > :41:07.other way. It has not dampened my support. I would still vote for the
:41:07. > :41:12.Lib Dems. It is not just the next general election where the Lib Dems
:41:12. > :41:16.might struggle. They have always relied on its local support, but at
:41:16. > :41:23.last year's council elections, they lost half of their seats in the
:41:23. > :41:30.southeast. When it led them to lose her seat was Alex Hull. I have been
:41:30. > :41:35.disillusioned with the mistakes that we have made. I think the Lib
:41:35. > :41:39.Dems have done more than they had been able to get across. Nick Clegg
:41:39. > :41:44.is not a dramatic leader but he does a lot behind the scenes. I
:41:44. > :41:49.will stay for now but I can hop off at any minute. Some commentators
:41:49. > :41:55.say that both Lib Dem seats could be in danger. The Liberal Democrats
:41:55. > :42:01.look extremely likely to lose their seats in Eastbourne and they could
:42:01. > :42:05.also be used in Lewis. The question is, are they cite the less
:42:05. > :42:08.unpopular than their Conservative opponents? The evidence seems to be,
:42:08. > :42:15.amongst the people that matter most, the Liberal Democrats are less
:42:15. > :42:20.popular than the Conservatives are. That is the truth about it,
:42:20. > :42:24.political parties die off. They can cease to have a role in national
:42:24. > :42:34.politics. I think the Liberal Democrats are facing this sort of
:42:34. > :42:34.
:42:34. > :42:41.crisis. Eastbourne is the only town and the southeast where... There
:42:41. > :42:46.could be serious consequences when the next election rolls around.
:42:46. > :42:53.Norman Baker, what have you done as a constituency MP to make people
:42:53. > :42:57.vote for you? I have done what I have always do, which is to put my
:42:57. > :43:00.constituents first. I think we need to protect the health service from
:43:00. > :43:06.the organisational changes that can impact badly upon them locally and
:43:06. > :43:11.the various campaigns that any MP it would run if they are worth
:43:11. > :43:15.their salt. Every year, going back to when we were in opposition, the
:43:15. > :43:19.story is the same, the Lib Dems are on their way out. I have been
:43:19. > :43:26.dealing with that for 25 years on this programme and every time it
:43:26. > :43:31.has been strong. If you take Eastbourne, there is a man down
:43:31. > :43:37.there who as an MP and he is doing really well done a. -- is an MP and
:43:37. > :43:40.he is doing really well down there. If you go back in time, this is how
:43:40. > :43:48.it has always been. We have to factor in that we have local
:43:48. > :43:54.support, and that means that we have a stronger seats. I am not
:43:54. > :43:59.pessimistic. I think we are doing better than the Conservatives did
:43:59. > :44:04.in the last election. This kind of the media frenzy is overstated.
:44:04. > :44:08.am not sure it is a media frenzy, it is just a question. You are
:44:08. > :44:16.going to seek re-election? I think that will be a matter for the local
:44:16. > :44:21.party. I am always interested to serve my party. When the big issues
:44:21. > :44:28.-- what are the big issues for the people a Gillingham going to be?
:44:28. > :44:34.Jobs, skills, these are critical issues. Transport, of course, and
:44:34. > :44:38.defending the marshes from an airport. Why do so few people want
:44:38. > :44:45.to be members of any of the parties? Pemba cent of people do
:44:45. > :44:52.not want to be part of a party. -- 10 %. For I think this is incumbent
:44:52. > :44:56.on all of us as politicians. have not really got this across.
:44:56. > :45:01.You only need to look at an opinion poll that has been done in terms of
:45:01. > :45:09.Liberal Democrats. Half of people feel that they have been
:45:09. > :45:13.ineffectual in terms of the coalition. Things like the people
:45:13. > :45:21.premium, that was slated yesterday by the inspector, and civil
:45:21. > :45:25.liberties, areas where the Liberal Democrats used to excel. Let's come
:45:25. > :45:31.back to the issue of re-election. It could be 2015 or sooner, but of
:45:31. > :45:36.course, one of the issues that will be significant for you is, who is
:45:36. > :45:40.leading a party? Will it still be Nick Clegg? Is he a leader or a
:45:40. > :45:43.liability? The Deputy Prime Minister has been talking to our
:45:43. > :45:47.political Editor about one of the hottest topics here in the
:45:47. > :45:55.southeast, what he thinks the Government should do about airport
:45:55. > :45:58.expansion. Everybody agrees we need this hub capacity to give us
:45:58. > :46:02.connections to Asia and other places. That is good for the
:46:02. > :46:07.economy but there are a lot of ideas about how you do it. Some
:46:07. > :46:11.people think you can build a real link between Heathrow and other
:46:11. > :46:16.places, and then maybe an amalgamated airport. I do not know
:46:16. > :46:23.if that stands up to scrutiny. I do not know if the idea of using
:46:23. > :46:28.Birmingham airports at increased capacity is a good idea. You were
:46:28. > :46:34.against any increase capacity in airports. We are not against the
:46:34. > :46:38.idea. There should be increased capacity and the meddlers so where.
:46:38. > :46:45.We are anxious about what it means for -- in the Midlands somewhere.
:46:45. > :46:50.We are anxious about what it means for the country. We are very clear
:46:50. > :46:54.that we do not think that a third Heathrow runway works. It would
:46:54. > :47:01.probably fill up with them a matter of years and you would have to keep
:47:01. > :47:08.building on. Crucially, let's remember, 60 % of a noise pollution
:47:08. > :47:13.in Europe is related to West Lodnon and Heathrow we do not agree with
:47:13. > :47:18.that -- and Heathrow. We do not agree with that. We are not
:47:18. > :47:22.convinced about the third runway at Heathrow but we will look at it
:47:22. > :47:28.with an open mind. We are you rule out Thames Estuary? I am not
:47:28. > :47:32.persuaded by that airport. I am not an aviation expert. My party is not
:47:32. > :47:36.persuaded by it but we are a party that is reasonable and will listen
:47:36. > :47:41.to evidence and we do not have that yet. We will not have it in full
:47:42. > :47:47.until after the general election. You have apologised for breaking up
:47:47. > :47:52.your pledge on tuition fees. Thousands of students are going to
:47:52. > :47:56.protest against this policy. Now that you have apologised, how can
:47:56. > :48:01.you ask them to vote for you? It was an undeliverable pledge. I am
:48:01. > :48:05.being very open about it. We made a pledge that we could not stick to
:48:05. > :48:11.and it was a mistake and I have said that I am sorry. I clearly
:48:11. > :48:15.will learn from that, we will learn from that. You must learn from your
:48:15. > :48:19.mistakes and I made it very clear that we will make sure that we will
:48:20. > :48:24.make a pledge that we are sure we can deliver as a party. I am very
:48:24. > :48:30.proud of the fact that we had four commitments on the front page of
:48:30. > :48:33.our manifesto, pupil premium on money for schools, no income tax on
:48:33. > :48:38.the first �10,000 you earn, sorting out the economic mess left behind
:48:38. > :48:45.by Labour and pushing for political reform. There's for commitment that
:48:45. > :48:48.we had our ones that we have started. -- those four commitments.
:48:48. > :48:56.You are in danger of losing Eastbourne and the next election.
:48:56. > :49:02.You are paying a price for this coalition cannot argue?
:49:02. > :49:06.coalition, are you? You were wiped off at Hastings. We are active on
:49:06. > :49:10.the ground and we are explaining our side of the story. It is a
:49:10. > :49:15.story that is difficult and controversial and we made mistakes,
:49:15. > :49:22.but where we have delivered more apprenticeships, we have delivered
:49:22. > :49:27.more work than this country has seen in 20 years. We have had a
:49:27. > :49:33.large cash increase. These er things where we expect them on the
:49:33. > :49:38.doorstep. We not -- these are things. I hope that, as we continue
:49:38. > :49:44.to explain our story, our fortunes will increase as well. Thank you
:49:44. > :49:48.very much. Norman Baker, you are clear that Heathrow should not have
:49:48. > :49:52.a third runway, but your leader is clearly leaving the door open on an
:49:52. > :50:00.estuary airport. He said he has not persuaded but the evidence could
:50:00. > :50:03.persuade him. I did not quite hear him say that. We have got a
:50:03. > :50:08.commission and we need to not judge the outcome cancer we see the
:50:08. > :50:12.evidence. He said himself he was a persuader. I am not persuaded. I
:50:12. > :50:17.think it is a bit of a mad scheme and it will be hugely expensive to
:50:17. > :50:23.get infrastructure out there. There is Montgomery, and there is lots of
:50:23. > :50:27.ammunition underneath there. We do not want clarity from Nick Clegg?
:50:27. > :50:31.We do not want him to rule it out here and now? The fact of the
:50:31. > :50:38.matter is that at the last general election, we went into it with a
:50:38. > :50:45.commitment of no expansion of airports and the southeast. We
:50:45. > :50:55.stopped the third home -- runway at Heathrow. You have described the
:50:55. > :50:56.
:50:56. > :51:02.idea of having a airport hub in this area absolute madness. But a
:51:02. > :51:06.massive infrastructure project would bring in growth in jobs.
:51:06. > :51:09.had a project at the Thames Gateway and that was about giving people
:51:09. > :51:14.skills for the jobs and giving them their jobs and that is how you
:51:14. > :51:17.deliver, through other regeneration programmes. The reason why I
:51:17. > :51:22.personally believe an estuary airport would not work, it would
:51:22. > :51:27.not stack up financially, but also, whispered something like six years
:51:27. > :51:32.in government actually looking at all of the -- we spent something
:51:32. > :51:35.like six years in government actually looking at all of this.
:51:35. > :51:45.The Independent Commission, all that is about his kicking this into
:51:45. > :51:45.
:51:45. > :51:49.long grass and taking the decision after the general election. I think
:51:49. > :51:55.it is about tying up policy with high-speed rail. We need to look
:51:55. > :51:58.elsewhere in the country. What did you make of Nick Clegg in the
:51:58. > :52:03.interview? Did he come across as a leader? It now, I do not think he
:52:03. > :52:13.comes across as a leader to the vast majority of people. He seems
:52:13. > :52:23.indecisive. I think he did come across as a leader. As it happens,
:52:23. > :52:28.my experience of Lib Dem leaders, Nick Clegg is the best we have had.
:52:28. > :52:33.The we will stay with transport. Can you afford to keep commuting?
:52:33. > :52:38.The Government says that season tickets can increase by an average
:52:38. > :52:47.of 6%. Anybody travelling from Canterbury to London are already
:52:47. > :52:51.pays �4,500 a year. Passengers have been stung by its massive rises and
:52:51. > :53:01.rail fares defined high-speed services that many of them do not
:53:01. > :53:02.
:53:02. > :53:08.even use. - occur to find rail services. -- to find high-speed
:53:08. > :53:14.rail services. Let's talk about this number, 6%. Despite what has
:53:14. > :53:19.been in the papers, it is important to put this on the record. There
:53:19. > :53:25.has been a policy that was introduced in 2004 of increasing
:53:26. > :53:33.rail fares above inflation every year, and in the southeast, his
:53:33. > :53:41.party did increase them. It is not a question of negating that. That
:53:41. > :53:48.has already happened. Isn't it time now to cut a bit of slack? They
:53:48. > :53:52.have had such a steep rises to fund high-speed rail, isn't it time to
:53:52. > :53:58.cut them a bit of slack than everybody else that these things
:53:58. > :54:02.have been paid for? That decision was taken by the last government. I
:54:02. > :54:06.understand the reasons even though I do not agree with it. The issue
:54:06. > :54:11.is this, we have the biggest rail programme going on since Victorian
:54:11. > :54:17.times and the Lib Dems will want to take some credit for that. This has
:54:17. > :54:26.to be paid for somehow. The rail is not as efficient as it should be.
:54:26. > :54:30.As soon as we can he do that, we will start lowering the affairs.
:54:30. > :54:34.is Liberal Democrat policy to seek a real-terms cut in rail fares.
:54:34. > :54:40.This is another election commitment to make things cheaper and easier
:54:40. > :54:47.for people that you cannot keep. have been driving down the cost of
:54:47. > :54:55.rail fares. They have been driven down from where they could have
:54:55. > :55:00.been. We are also seen the biggest rail expansion since the Victorian
:55:00. > :55:10.times. They put up a rail fares every ear. He is right, you did
:55:10. > :55:12.
:55:12. > :55:18.that. -- he put up rail fares every year. He is right, you did that.
:55:18. > :55:28.Your government is suggesting, very clearly, that there will be RPI
:55:28. > :55:30.
:55:30. > :55:36.plus three in 2012 and 2013. Across the country, there is no return.
:55:36. > :55:42.What the investment was in the southeast, if you remember in 1997,
:55:42. > :55:46.we had a policy that dated back to the 30s and 40s. Now it is up to
:55:46. > :55:52.date. Ask any transport officials what the money was a four. What we
:55:52. > :55:56.are saying is that we should keep the RPI plus 1% above inflation.
:55:56. > :56:01.Let me ask, do you still believe that increasing rail fares is
:56:01. > :56:11.neither sensible or defensible, as you said to me across the despatch
:56:11. > :56:19.box on 20th January 2009? He I want to end the Era of above inflation
:56:19. > :56:28.rail fares. We are electrifying hundreds of miles of track. They
:56:28. > :56:31.have all me a lecture fide nine. would love to see you end a
:56:31. > :56:41.coalition together! Time now for a regular round-up for the political
:56:41. > :56:45.
:56:46. > :56:50.week. Here is our political UKIP leader Nigel Farage's
:56:50. > :56:55.relations with the European Union have got an frostier. A fine has
:56:55. > :56:59.been imposed after this rant against the EU President. You have
:56:59. > :57:07.the charisma of a damp rag and the appearance of a low-grade bank
:57:07. > :57:12.clerk. For Martin Bell was supporting and Barnes in her bid to
:57:12. > :57:16.become police commissioner. The government has finally given the go
:57:16. > :57:23.ahead to the �650 million redevelopment of these dockyards.
:57:23. > :57:28.No such decision on a Airport and the Thames estuary, but Crispin
:57:28. > :57:34.Blunt said: It is blindingly obvious. That will teach David
:57:34. > :57:44.Cameron in the reshuffle! Is Jarmila too young to stand for
:57:44. > :57:47.
:57:47. > :57:53.election as a councillor? There have been allegations of ageism. A
:57:53. > :58:01.18 are too young? No, we should get more young people involved in
:58:01. > :58:06.politics also go luck to him. have a great way to end the show. -