:01:32. > :01:42.In the South East: Why the people of Dartford could
:01:42. > :01:42.
:01:42. > :37:01.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2119 seconds
:37:01. > :37:06.signal victory or defeat for Ed Hello, I'm Natalie Graham, and this
:37:06. > :37:09.is the Sunday Politics in the South East. Coming up:
:37:09. > :37:14.Whether it is mansions, council tax or free TV licences, will targeting
:37:14. > :37:18.the region's wealthiest voters backfire on the politicians?
:37:18. > :37:20.Joining me in the studio today is Amber Rudd, who is the Conservative
:37:20. > :37:25.MP for Hastings and Rye and Parliamentary Private Secretary to
:37:25. > :37:28.the Chancellor George Osborne. Also joining us is Lord Bassam, former
:37:28. > :37:32.leader of Brighton Council, and Labour's chief whip in the House of
:37:32. > :37:35.Lords. First, the new road scheme linking
:37:35. > :37:38.Bexhill and Hastings moved a step closer this week when the
:37:38. > :37:42.government approved orders for buying up the necessary land. The
:37:42. > :37:45.project will cost more than �90 million. The council says it will
:37:45. > :37:49.bring development and jobs to the area. But opponents are strongly
:37:49. > :37:53.against the scheme because of its effect on the landscape and widlife.
:37:53. > :38:01.They are continuing to fight it in the courts and say it is the wrong
:38:01. > :38:09.way to solve local traffic problems. Gummer, you will be familiar with
:38:09. > :38:13.the arguments. -- Amber. It is not worth the damage? This is a debate
:38:13. > :38:19.that has been going on for over 20 years. People are already suffering
:38:19. > :38:24.from fatigue. Most of us who live in the area and love it up excited
:38:24. > :38:27.at the prospect of the road. It is not just about trying to sort out
:38:27. > :38:32.the roads, it is about economic regeneration. It is about the
:38:32. > :38:37.opportunity it gives for new businesses and jobs. He you say
:38:37. > :38:42.that but a report by the council says the opposite. They say they
:38:42. > :38:46.are small benefits. I do not think that is true. East Sussex County
:38:46. > :38:52.Council has been the biggest promoter of this road. It will
:38:52. > :38:56.bring it 3,000 jobs. We must point out huge amounts of effort has gone
:38:56. > :39:05.into environmental mitigation. There will be special measures for
:39:05. > :39:10.the badgers and dormice. For Lord Bassam, what do you think? For the
:39:10. > :39:15.road has been a long argued for. We were going to approve it when we
:39:15. > :39:20.were in government. But you did not manage it. We had put a lot of
:39:20. > :39:25.money into other projects in Hastings to try to regenerate the
:39:25. > :39:31.economy. It is important the thing does not stop there and we make
:39:31. > :39:37.sure it links up properly with the a 21. I agree with Amber. We need
:39:37. > :39:44.to protect the local environment. It is right the Council listens to
:39:44. > :39:54.those. We will leave it there. Are there will be a judicial review.
:39:54. > :39:54.
:39:54. > :40:00.That will be heard in October. judicial review was turned down.
:40:00. > :40:04.They have asked to leave for appeal. We hope that will be turned down.
:40:04. > :40:06.To the Labour Party now. It is holding its conference in
:40:06. > :40:09.Manchester this weekend, surfing a wave of favourable opinion polls.
:40:09. > :40:13.But there is evidence that its recovery is weaker in the South
:40:13. > :40:16.East than other parts of the country. So can Labour win back the
:40:16. > :40:18.seats in Sussex and Kent that it lost in 2010? One that will be
:40:18. > :40:28.watched particularly closely is Dartford because the party that
:40:28. > :40:32.
:40:32. > :40:37.wins the seat normally forms the next government.
:40:37. > :40:43.Dulford in north Kent is only 16 miles from London. It is a popular
:40:43. > :40:47.commuter and since 1964 it has been the country's most reliable seat
:40:47. > :40:56.for elections. The party that wins here get into power. It is a key
:40:56. > :41:00.battleground and local issues will be important. This is Bluewater
:41:00. > :41:04.shopping centre which is in the Dartford constituency. In spite of
:41:04. > :41:14.money changing hands, unemployment is higher than the national average.
:41:14. > :41:15.
:41:15. > :41:19.It is just over 10%. They have an on-site learning shop which runs
:41:19. > :41:25.sessions for people out of work, like these young people. It is
:41:25. > :41:33.disheartening because you apply and applied and you fill in application
:41:33. > :41:39.forms and hand in your CV and some people just don't reply. I have
:41:39. > :41:48.handed out over 200 CVs to shopping centres in my area. I have applied
:41:48. > :41:58.for about 20 jobs every two weeks and I have had one interview.
:41:58. > :42:02.must be very frustrating. Yes, it is. I was turned down. Other
:42:02. > :42:08.residents who have jobs, many commute to London. For those who
:42:08. > :42:14.drive, the toll will increase next month from one pound 52 for �2.
:42:14. > :42:19.Rail fares are likely to go up by around 6%. Lyndon Jones is what
:42:19. > :42:26.politicians referred to as the squeezed middle. His season ticket
:42:26. > :42:33.has gone up four years. On top of the other increases, the gas
:42:33. > :42:38.electricity, and the price of going across the Dartford crossing, it is
:42:38. > :42:46.all adding up and reducing my monthly take-home available income.
:42:46. > :42:54.It is not good news. I am not happy. Voters faced with this price
:42:54. > :42:58.increase will take this thing into account. Despite national opinion
:42:58. > :43:05.polls, Labour's recovery in the South East has been weaker than in
:43:05. > :43:13.the north. In Dartford, the party lost seats at the local council
:43:14. > :43:19.election. In the last General Election, problems with the Labour
:43:19. > :43:27.Party were greater in this part of the country. We do have a bigger
:43:27. > :43:33.majority to fight against in the next election. It will not be an
:43:33. > :43:39.easy task. We are confident we can make a good inroad into that.
:43:39. > :43:43.some commentators say aspiration is important in the region. This is
:43:43. > :43:49.the place where the aspiring classes live. They one the Labour
:43:49. > :43:54.party to represent their values. -- we want. They are not convinced Ed
:43:54. > :43:59.Miliband shares their values. Can they make the South East as popular
:43:59. > :44:09.as it was under Tony Blair? For the electorate, Ed Miliband looks like
:44:09. > :44:10.
:44:10. > :44:15.a left-wing Labour than in 1997. Labour needs to convince crucial
:44:15. > :44:19.swing voters in Dartford it can improve their fortunes in economic
:44:19. > :44:29.difficulty. It needs to come up with a vision that matches the
:44:29. > :44:31.
:44:31. > :44:35.aspirations of people of all ages. Steve Bassam, we heard from Lyndon
:44:35. > :44:40.Jones and the squeezed middle. There is a long way for your party
:44:40. > :44:46.to go to convince people like him to vote for you? I do not think
:44:46. > :44:53.voters in the south are that different. We have made a lot of
:44:53. > :45:01.progress there. Last year's elections in Hastings, we took six
:45:01. > :45:08.seats off the Tories. One was for the Lib Dems. But we have
:45:08. > :45:13.consolidated their. It means seats like those, it means those will be
:45:13. > :45:23.up for grabs. I think we can recover the lost ground from 2010.
:45:23. > :45:33.I think Ed Miliband will take as in that decision -- in that direction.
:45:33. > :45:34.
:45:34. > :45:40.I am more vulnerable than Dartford. They have a majority of 11,000. I
:45:40. > :45:44.try not to look at that too much. I tried to deliver on the ground for
:45:44. > :45:48.Hastings. I am trying to help people get the jobs they want and
:45:48. > :45:53.make sure the cost of living does not, as in the example, go down.
:45:53. > :45:59.But that is the trouble. The utilities, the train fares, the
:45:59. > :46:03.Dartford crossing, those are going up. We have always said these are
:46:03. > :46:09.difficult times. It is a difficult time to build the economy. I
:46:09. > :46:13.hesitate to say this but there are signs of improvement. I was as a
:46:14. > :46:20.jobs fair in Hastings yesterday. 350 jobs on offer. The economists
:46:20. > :46:23.who are saying this week the tide is turning. I have looked at the
:46:24. > :46:29.statistics for young unemployment and they are horrific in Brighton
:46:29. > :46:33.and Hove and they are not good in Hastings. You might think there are
:46:33. > :46:39.signs of improvement but that is not how young people feel.
:46:39. > :46:49.mentioned the victories in Hastings. Crawley, you hardly made any gains.
:46:49. > :46:55.You are not -- you did not gain control, which you expected to do.
:46:55. > :46:59.You are not making as much as a recovery as you would like to see.
:47:00. > :47:07.We took control of Southampton. We made a lot of progress in Crawley,
:47:07. > :47:15.actually. We will get control in the next set of district elections.
:47:15. > :47:21.Mind that recovery is strong in the south. We are making of the lost
:47:21. > :47:28.ground. In Hastings, unemployment has increased by 14%. -- has
:47:28. > :47:32.decreased. Thank you. Now we will hear from Ed Miliband. He has been
:47:32. > :47:37.talking to our political editor. She began by asking him what Labour
:47:37. > :47:42.would do about the need for greater airport capacity in the South East.
:47:42. > :47:47.We have said what needs to happen is there needs to be a proper look
:47:47. > :47:51.at the environmental issues we face around aviation, a proper look at
:47:51. > :47:55.the business case around aviation and any decision is made. It is not
:47:55. > :48:00.good the Government has kicked this into the long grass. We would like
:48:00. > :48:06.a quicker decision. We will look at the way the commission works.
:48:06. > :48:12.People want a bit of certainty and that is what we will have to do in
:48:12. > :48:17.our own policy review. environment and climate change
:48:17. > :48:24.Secretary, you were against a third runway at Heathrow. What is your
:48:24. > :48:30.position now? I remain sceptical about Heathrow. The key thing about
:48:31. > :48:34.this is you have got to start with... We have got big
:48:34. > :48:39.environmental commitments as a country. We want to cut our
:48:39. > :48:43.emissions by 80%. Aviation has got to fit within that. I wanted to
:48:43. > :48:47.start with that and then look at the business case and make
:48:47. > :48:52.decisions. I do not think it means no extra capacity anywhere but I do
:48:52. > :48:56.not think we can carry on as we are. We have got to strike the right
:48:56. > :49:01.balance. On education, Labour have been clear they do not support
:49:01. > :49:06.grammar schools. In Kent, they have that grammar school system. But
:49:06. > :49:11.they are expanding it for the first time in half a century. People in
:49:11. > :49:17.Kent will have that concern that if Labour get in, you do not support
:49:17. > :49:22.the education system they cherish? It is supposed to be a cross-party
:49:22. > :49:26.consensus that we do not want new grammar schools and that is not the
:49:26. > :49:33.way forward. But I want to drive up standards of education. One issue
:49:33. > :49:37.is the education of people who are not academic and need vocational
:49:37. > :49:42.skills. Michael Gove is announcing changes to GCSEs. But that is not
:49:42. > :49:47.the biggest issue. What about the kids that are not academic but do
:49:47. > :49:52.not want to go to university? That is that 15% we do not talk about.
:49:53. > :49:57.We need to help them. That will be one of the things we will talk
:49:57. > :50:03.about in the coming months. You are doing well nationally in the polls.
:50:03. > :50:08.But that is not translating in the South East. You made some gains
:50:08. > :50:13.that were not enough. Is it just that you do not risen at their in
:50:13. > :50:20.the way that Tony Blair did? think we are in party be building,
:50:20. > :50:27.particularly in the south. We have some distance to go. -- rebuilding.
:50:27. > :50:32.We need to talk about how we will rebuild Britain. Prices and living
:50:32. > :50:37.standards, energy bills, we need to talk about how we will make a
:50:37. > :50:42.difference in terms of jobs and make the bank's work for them. It
:50:42. > :50:47.is about rebuilding the economy and Britain. That will speak to people
:50:47. > :50:51.in the South East. Are you confident you can win in the South
:50:51. > :50:55.East? You have no MPs there at the moment. Are you confident Labour
:50:55. > :51:00.has the right message? I am. Talking about the economy and how
:51:00. > :51:05.we will build it up, people voted for change two years ago. They
:51:05. > :51:08.thought David Cameron would bring change. But he made it worse, not
:51:08. > :51:16.better. People are losing the benefit of the doubt for the
:51:16. > :51:21.Government. They want to know how we will change the country. Thank
:51:21. > :51:25.you. Is he sounding too left wing? That is the accusation we heard
:51:25. > :51:32.earlier. I do not think that is true. I think he does understand
:51:32. > :51:38.the aspirations of people in the South. He talked about schools,
:51:38. > :51:45.jobs, banking. All of those things are really important in the South
:51:45. > :51:50.East. They are the 7th largest regional economy in the UK. Ed
:51:50. > :51:54.Miliband I understand that. He will address those issues. You mentioned
:51:54. > :51:59.education. We touched on grammar schools. But he is not talking to
:51:59. > :52:03.the middle classes in the way Tony Blair did? He was talking against
:52:03. > :52:07.Michael Gove. But a lot of Michael Gove's policies who are playing
:52:07. > :52:12.well with aspirational parents in this part of the world. Fighting I
:52:12. > :52:18.think the reaction to Michael Gove's attack on grade inflation
:52:18. > :52:25.has been mixed. My daughter has just done her GCSEs and her
:52:25. > :52:29.friends' parents did not take too kindly to Michael Gove's
:52:29. > :52:33.interventions. We need to focus on training and education and make
:52:33. > :52:39.sure people are well qualified. That is exactly where Labour is.
:52:39. > :52:47.That is where voters are. A I am sure you will see that is where the
:52:47. > :52:52.Conservatives are. If -- you will say. In that conversation, he
:52:52. > :52:57.touched on a lot of things that mattered. But he did not have any
:52:57. > :53:07.answers. He is very good at framing the question but something like his
:53:07. > :53:11.aviation policy, he has no view at all. I think it is quite reasonable
:53:11. > :53:15.to say we have to look at this carefully and say we need to decide
:53:15. > :53:19.on the best thing for everyone. But just to attack us without no
:53:19. > :53:23.answer... I am looking forward to the Labour Party Conference and
:53:23. > :53:28.hearing what they will actually do rather than just attacking the
:53:28. > :53:34.Government. I do not think Boris Ireland is such a good idea. But we
:53:34. > :53:41.need extra capacity somewhere. -- Boris Ireland. We cannot afford to
:53:41. > :53:49.kill off Heathrow. Would it not be refreshing for a politician to say,
:53:49. > :53:52.an estuary would boost jobs and the economy? I am not sure about it. We
:53:52. > :54:01.need to look more carefully at Heathrow as well. There are too
:54:01. > :54:06.many options out there. Everyone has so many options. We need to
:54:06. > :54:09.look at them all. Next, the policies that could hit
:54:09. > :54:12.you where it hurts - the wallet. The Liberal Democrats talked about
:54:12. > :54:15.wealth taxes again this week, and Labour and the Tories are also
:54:15. > :54:17.known to be looking at them. Whether it is raising council tax
:54:17. > :54:20.on expensive houses, a mansion tax, or taking away universal benefits
:54:20. > :54:26.for affluent pensioners, squeezing the rich is a subject that will not
:54:26. > :54:34.go away. And the South East would be affected more than many other
:54:34. > :54:37.parts of the country because of relatively high property values.
:54:37. > :54:42.Amber, you are Parliamentary Private Secretary to the Chancellor
:54:42. > :54:47.of the Exchequer. What is his thinking? He has not share that
:54:47. > :54:52.with me. My view, if you were to ask me, we are not a country that
:54:52. > :55:01.is overtaxed and we should not be looking at wealth taxes in the same
:55:01. > :55:04.way the Lib Dems are. They claim they are making progress.
:55:04. > :55:09.Commentators are saying George Osborne has approved some kind of
:55:09. > :55:14.tax on property. A I am behind the curve on that one. The one that
:55:14. > :55:19.matters is we have had a 7% stamp duty tax which is now on very
:55:19. > :55:23.expensive houses. So I would say we have already done that. We have
:55:23. > :55:30.made sure the wealthier do pay their share by withdrawing child
:55:30. > :55:35.benefit from a high paid. We are all in it together. A wealth tax
:55:35. > :55:40.would not play well with your constituents? We are not overtaxed
:55:40. > :55:46.in this country. We need to look for efficiency and better
:55:46. > :55:51.government. So you think we should have more taxes? No, we are not
:55:51. > :55:55.under taxed. You are right. A I am glad you have clarified that. We
:55:56. > :55:59.need to look at taxation. The Government got it wrong in the last
:55:59. > :56:03.Budget, giving millions back to millionaires for and squeezing
:56:03. > :56:11.people on lower incomes. They did not get the balance right. A Ed
:56:11. > :56:17.Balls is thinking about a wealth tax as well? All Chancellors have
:56:17. > :56:22.to do that. If we are to ensure there is money to invest, you have
:56:22. > :56:27.got to do that. He has been saved a lot of interesting things. That
:56:27. > :56:34.will emerge as being one of them, perhaps. You live somewhere where
:56:34. > :56:42.property prices just continue to rise? Brain is a property bubble. -
:56:42. > :56:47.- Brighton. I am not opposed to taxes which are fair. But I worry
:56:47. > :56:57.about the Government's policy because it is giving a lot of money
:56:57. > :56:59.
:56:59. > :57:06.back to will the house sold its -- to wealthy households. Whether
:57:06. > :57:16.you're raising revenue efficiently or whether it's there, there are
:57:16. > :57:23.
:57:23. > :57:32.two issues here. -- it is fair. had a property tax in the sense we
:57:32. > :57:37.had rates. Property does not move and it is easier to tax and track
:57:37. > :57:42.down. A once you start recalculating, you are opening up...
:57:42. > :57:46.Some people will say if you have a wealth tax on property, you are
:57:46. > :57:55.just getting an advance against the inheritance tax so there is no more
:57:55. > :58:01.any money. So you cannot just say, let us tax a big houses. There is
:58:01. > :58:06.clearly a debate going on amongst the three parties and we will be
:58:06. > :58:12.looking at the possibility of a... Were due like to see a wealth tax?
:58:12. > :58:22.I'll would like to see us tax bigger properties. -- would you
:58:22. > :58:29.
:58:29. > :58:34.like to see. Now the round-up of the political week.
:58:34. > :58:40.The Lib Dems have seen a few storms recently but as we gathered for
:58:40. > :58:44.their conference in Brighton it was another problem troubling the party
:58:44. > :58:48.president. We love everything about Brighton with the exception of the
:58:48. > :58:53.prices of the hotel bar. A sober Nick Clegg promised there will be
:58:53. > :58:57.brighter days ahead but warned of tough decisions. One of the first
:58:57. > :59:03.decisions they made was to renew their opposition to airport
:59:03. > :59:13.exemption -- expansion in the South East. John Terry's conviction by
:59:13. > :59:20.the FA for racially abusing another player was backed by MPs. They are
:59:20. > :59:26.unacceptable, that type of language. The pancake champion it flipped
:59:26. > :59:36.when her researcher told a bad joke. She tweeted she punished the