:01:26. > :01:30.And in the South East, fighting the freeze, while Brighton's Green
:01:30. > :01:40.Party is considering defying the Government by putting council tax
:01:40. > :01:40.
:01:40. > :37:52.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2172 seconds
:37:52. > :37:57.Hello and misses the Sunday Politics in the South East. Coming
:37:57. > :38:03.up later - a one-man-band all the biggest threat to the Tories in the
:38:03. > :38:08.South East? How serious is the challenge posed by UKIP? Our guests
:38:08. > :38:12.at Damian Collins the Conservative MP for Folkestone and Hythe and the
:38:12. > :38:15.leader of UKIP, Nigel Farage who is also the MEP. This England.
:38:15. > :38:23.Unfortunately was unable to make it to the studio to Mesa joins us from
:38:23. > :38:26.London. Malcolm to. Scallop wars have broken and the Channel. Sussex
:38:26. > :38:30.fishermen have been returning with tales of tangling with French
:38:30. > :38:35.counterpart over lucrative Scot ground. About 40 French ships
:38:35. > :38:40.surrounded a British vote on Monday. About 15 miles off the French coast
:38:40. > :38:44.and threw stones and shouted abuse. -- British vote. The French are
:38:44. > :38:49.angry that the British are exempt from rules designed to replenish
:38:49. > :38:55.stocks. It seems unfair that the French went to fish stocks finding
:38:55. > :38:59.out the British got there first. pick a lot of my constituencies in
:38:59. > :39:04.Kent will not have many sympathies with the French fishermen who have
:39:04. > :39:10.caused as many dismays but this should not be a stand off in the
:39:10. > :39:14.high seas. What the British are doing our legal, but it does not
:39:14. > :39:17.seem very fair on people nurturing stocks. The French fishermen are
:39:17. > :39:23.very good at interpreting laws in their own way without caring if it
:39:23. > :39:29.is fair to us. Not much diplomacy here from Damian. Nigel will you be
:39:30. > :39:34.more diplomatic? No! I am a great sympathise with the British fishing
:39:34. > :39:37.fleet. The Conservative Party have almost destroyed it up by signing
:39:37. > :39:43.as a to a common policy. This dispute about scallops, our
:39:43. > :39:48.fishermen are angry because our percentage of the cod quota is 7%.
:39:48. > :39:51.Getting back to this particular issue, the French have been
:39:51. > :39:55.refraining from fishing them all summer and by the time they come
:39:55. > :40:01.back, the British have got there first. If you're a fisherman, you
:40:01. > :40:05.have to have quota or you go for things off quota. Given that our
:40:06. > :40:10.fleet only have 7% of the Channel cod quota and the French have 77,
:40:10. > :40:13.we have to fish for other things and brightly the whole thing is
:40:13. > :40:16.ludicrous to what we ought to do is draw a line in the Channel and
:40:16. > :40:22.declare each half national waters, that would work and would be
:40:22. > :40:25.perfectly fair. OK, we will leave it there for now. The grey is on
:40:25. > :40:30.Brighton and Hove City Council are considering raising council tax
:40:30. > :40:32.bills -- the Greens on Brighton and Hove City Council, in defiance of
:40:33. > :40:35.the Government. At the Tory party conference,
:40:35. > :40:39.ministers made it clear that they wanted local authorities to free
:40:39. > :40:49.his bills and by using a stick and carrot tactics often cash
:40:49. > :41:01.
:41:01. > :41:05.incentives for those two comply -- Brighton and Hove is the only place
:41:05. > :41:08.in the country where the Greens are the largest party. Have a different
:41:08. > :41:11.agenda politically and a different view of local politics from the
:41:11. > :41:16.Government. This week, the local government minister Eric Pickles
:41:16. > :41:20.made it clear what he thinks about council tax. Conference, I believe
:41:20. > :41:26.in lower taxes. Whereas labelled doubled the council tax, we have
:41:26. > :41:30.worked with councils for the last two years to freeze it. This year,
:41:30. > :41:35.we are offering an additional fund to help councils freeze their bills
:41:35. > :41:37.again. But here in Brighton and Hove, the message was not well
:41:37. > :41:45.received. Rather than freeze council tax, the council has been
:41:45. > :41:49.planning to put it up. They are talking about a 3.5% increase. To
:41:49. > :41:52.ease pressure on council services. Brighton and Hove City Council is
:41:52. > :41:57.responsible for managing things like emptying bins, sweeping
:41:57. > :42:02.streets and running libraries. In all, it provides over 800 services
:42:02. > :42:05.and employs around 6,000 staff. The Green Party wanted to put council
:42:05. > :42:11.tax up last year but was defeated and says it may try to do the same
:42:11. > :42:16.thing again. Council tax bills in Brighton and Hove are currently
:42:16. > :42:22.�1,482 a year for an average house in band D. 85% of this bill is set
:42:22. > :42:26.by the council. The rest by a fire and police authorities. If the
:42:26. > :42:31.council's charges rose by 3.5%, bills would go up by �44. A
:42:31. > :42:35.suggestion that is met with scorn by the Green Party's opponents.
:42:35. > :42:38.They are crazy. We are said that the council tax should be frozen
:42:38. > :42:42.from day one. We said this last year and we succeeded last year but
:42:42. > :42:46.they did not want to do and right up until the end, they tried to
:42:46. > :42:52.increase the council tax by 3.5% but fortunately, Labour joined us
:42:52. > :43:00.to defeat that. I have said from day one, the cut tax should be
:43:00. > :43:03.frozen. This is what people want. And now we have an offer from the
:43:03. > :43:09.Government to freeze council tax. How can it make any sense to
:43:09. > :43:13.increase it? Does anyone want to pay more council tax? I think it is
:43:13. > :43:17.high enough already. I live in the city centre so it is already quite
:43:17. > :43:22.steep. I would be against it because I fear we pay enough
:43:22. > :43:25.already. I do not know how I would be able to pay it, really. What of
:43:25. > :43:28.the question is slightly different? Would people be prepared to play
:43:28. > :43:34.less than �1 per week to keep libraries and other services
:43:34. > :43:38.running as they are now? Yes, but that changes it probably, that
:43:38. > :43:44.sounds more achievable.? If that was signed and sealed, then of
:43:44. > :43:49.course but they can say these things and it is interesting that
:43:49. > :43:52.it does not happen. I do not want any more council tax. The Greens
:43:52. > :43:55.have minority control of the council and given the Tory
:43:55. > :44:00.opposition, they would need Labour support. And then they would have
:44:00. > :44:04.to hold a referendum. Imposed by the Government which would cost
:44:04. > :44:09.around �300,000. Earlier this year, the Government said councils had to
:44:09. > :44:14.hold a ballot if they wanted to raise council tax by over 3.5%. But
:44:14. > :44:17.it has just lowered that two 2%. The point about referenda is that
:44:17. > :44:21.they are yes or no questions. Politics are not usually about that,
:44:21. > :44:24.it is about how much so this is a misfit between the sort of issues
:44:24. > :44:29.it is dealing with and the way the Government is doing this. The
:44:29. > :44:34.Government is doing this to make sure that it can put a limit on
:44:34. > :44:37.what local councils do. Technically they are saying it you can do it
:44:37. > :44:41.with a majority support but we know it is difficult to vote for tax
:44:41. > :44:44.rises. That is like turkeys voting for Christmas so unless you are
:44:44. > :44:47.voting for tax rises on billionaires, you will not get it.
:44:47. > :44:54.If they do manage to find allies to pursue the rise, they will be
:44:54. > :44:56.taking a stand because the Government and will be out of lamb
:44:56. > :45:04.with virtually every other council in the country.
:45:04. > :45:08.I am joined by the leader of Brighton and Hove City Council,
:45:08. > :45:12.Jason Kitcat. What do you need the money for? We are facing the
:45:12. > :45:16.highest per-capita cuts by any council in the region. We need to
:45:16. > :45:24.make up from the huge pressure that all of our services are having to
:45:24. > :45:28.deliver for our citizens, but it -- whether that is libraries, keeping
:45:28. > :45:32.the seafront in order, keeping the streets clean. These services
:45:32. > :45:36.depend on us as a council to provide funding. But also as the
:45:36. > :45:39.report pointed out, he face an uphill struggle to face residents
:45:39. > :45:44.that they might feel differently if they knew what this money was going
:45:44. > :45:48.to go towards. I know this is hypothetical, because you have not
:45:48. > :45:54.have the final budget through from government but what specifically
:45:54. > :45:58.with this extra money go towards? number of areas we will look at to
:45:58. > :46:07.use this money for. The Government has cut council tax benefit by
:46:07. > :46:10.about 80% fall last and so there are the very poor and working
:46:10. > :46:15.people who will be hit by these changes so that money will reduce
:46:15. > :46:20.the impact of benefit cuts. We are talking about �3 million. If you
:46:20. > :46:28.went for that 3.5%, that is not a lot in the context of a budget of a
:46:28. > :46:36.city council like yours, that will not cover that much. The benefit
:46:36. > :46:40.reduction in the year ahead will be worth about �2.5 million so that
:46:40. > :46:44.increase would close the whole. The book libraries we operate cost tens
:46:44. > :46:48.of thousands of pounds per year so �1 million could save many branch
:46:48. > :46:57.libraries. The Government is offering new �2 million if you
:46:57. > :47:05.don't go through this. Why do not go for that? That is one off money.
:47:05. > :47:10.This is a one off grant and what it effectively masks is the cost of
:47:10. > :47:15.these phrases. We also have to note that this is a government to
:47:15. > :47:21.proclaim they are local list and that they are restricting what
:47:21. > :47:25.councils can and cannot do -- they are in to localism. One of the few
:47:25. > :47:29.things we are left to decide on his varying council tax. Will to people
:47:29. > :47:33.in the City are already concerned about we were spending their money.
:47:33. > :47:37.The cemetery is installed on the seafront. And we have not installed
:47:37. > :47:45.any so the trees. You are planning to spend thousands of pounds.
:47:45. > :47:48.are seeking a grant to renew a shed for the solar panels on the railway
:47:48. > :47:52.which needed to be replaced 10 years ago. If we are successful
:47:53. > :47:57.with the ground, that will go ahead. The shed will be closed by the
:47:57. > :48:02.railway board if we do not act on it so the oldest electric railway
:48:02. > :48:07.in the country is depending on us to take action. 45,000 is the
:48:07. > :48:10.amount you said you would put into that. Other examples, the revenue
:48:10. > :48:13.increase from raising parking charges. Lots of people you are
:48:13. > :48:20.already getting quite a lot of extra money from them since you
:48:20. > :48:25.have been in power. They may feel that but it is an inevitable
:48:25. > :48:29.consequence because of the cuts imposed on this council by the
:48:29. > :48:34.Government. Let's just remember the fact that the freeze last year
:48:34. > :48:37.added an additional 3.6 million black hole to our budget thanks to
:48:37. > :48:42.the work of the Tory and Labour parties locally. The chances of
:48:42. > :48:47.this going ahead of very slim, aren't they? Us to you can persuade
:48:47. > :48:51.your colleagues on other parties to back you? I need to talk to the
:48:51. > :48:53.other group leaders and itself of the Conservatives have made their
:48:53. > :48:59.minds up there we are in conversation with all of them. We
:49:00. > :49:05.are trying to seek consensus, and we owe it to the citizens of the
:49:05. > :49:09.City to protect services and come to a clear budget which protects
:49:09. > :49:13.budgets and services and delivers value for money. We are doing that.
:49:13. > :49:18.On we have done very well year on year and we are getting good
:49:18. > :49:23.ratings from the external audits we are getting. Been two, it good luck
:49:23. > :49:26.with persuading your colleagues on the council. Damian Collins, we
:49:26. > :49:32.heard from Jason Kitcat that he is blaming the Government for this,
:49:33. > :49:37.lowering the threshold for the referendum. He is now trying to do
:49:37. > :49:40.things but he says that goes against localism. We want local
:49:40. > :49:44.people to have a say and if authorities want to increase
:49:44. > :49:48.council tax, they can ask people for their consent. There does not
:49:48. > :49:54.sound like the people of Brighton will go for that. It comes on
:49:55. > :49:59.following increases in parking charges. The reason the Government
:49:59. > :50:02.has wanted to help councils freeze council tax, our local authority
:50:02. > :50:06.has managed that for two years, we know that when people have less
:50:06. > :50:09.money to spend it is a fixed cost and it makes a real difference so
:50:09. > :50:14.all councils should really be looking at spending and sake, what
:50:14. > :50:17.can we save and what can we do to freeze the council tax? Giving
:50:17. > :50:20.local authorities more control over their budget, it is a good thing
:50:20. > :50:23.that in this case they want to go to the people and ask the people
:50:23. > :50:29.through a referendum whether they would be prepared to put up more
:50:29. > :50:33.money. Back is a matter for them and it is that they should go to
:50:33. > :50:39.the people and ask them. I think there was a no. Nigel Farage joins
:50:39. > :50:44.us now from Westminster. You want to keep government control of local
:50:44. > :50:49.government so you would applaud what the Greens are doing. I think
:50:49. > :50:52.it is up to elected councils to live in that their taxes and be
:50:52. > :50:56.judged at elections but on top of that I think if local residents
:50:56. > :51:00.want to hold a referendum, whether it is on the scale of the Budget,
:51:00. > :51:05.green belt development, ugly wind farms, then I think local residents
:51:05. > :51:09.should have a right. As a general principle, central government has
:51:09. > :51:13.far too much say over local government in this country and as
:51:13. > :51:18.far as the Greens are concerned, I help always called Dan the
:51:19. > :51:26.watermelons. Great on the outside but they are very road on the
:51:26. > :51:31.inside. -- very red. So there should be up to spend council tax
:51:31. > :51:34.as they wish? If I was on the council in Brighton, I would be
:51:34. > :51:39.opposed to these increases and certainly opposed to the parking
:51:39. > :51:43.charges brought in but this is our local democracy and how it works
:51:43. > :51:47.and given there are checks, that is how it should be. Damian Collins,
:51:47. > :51:52.do you agree? People in Brighton will have their say and I think
:51:52. > :51:57.they will probably say no. It is always easy for any public bodies
:51:57. > :52:02.to say, we cannot find savings. On the whole, savings can be made and
:52:02. > :52:05.I think the public have a right to demand that any spending which his
:52:05. > :52:10.discretion, any place where we have a bit more control over the pennies
:52:10. > :52:13.being spent is a good thing. A long live on now and talk about the UK
:52:13. > :52:17.Independence Party. On the effect that is having on politics and the
:52:17. > :52:21.South East. It was once mocked as the provisional wing of the Rotary
:52:21. > :52:28.Club and over the past seven years, UKIP has doubled its share of the
:52:29. > :52:35.vote in the region. In Damian's constituency, it has almost
:52:35. > :52:39.quadrupled the vote. How worried are you by this threat, Damian?
:52:39. > :52:45.should never underestimate any voice in politics and a welcome
:52:45. > :52:51.UKIP's contribution to the debate. I look forward to having a general
:52:51. > :52:57.election campaign against a UKIP candidate like added in the last
:52:57. > :53:00.election. The issue of European membership prosaic matter which is
:53:00. > :53:03.important, tremendous Fox and change in Europe and the people
:53:03. > :53:07.want to know what their deal with Europe will be. It is not the top
:53:07. > :53:12.issue at my surgeries, it is not the issue that people of raised
:53:12. > :53:16.with me, they are worried about their own living situation. It is a
:53:16. > :53:20.big issue at Westminster, lot of your colleagues feel strongly that
:53:21. > :53:25.if David Cameron had been more Euro-sceptic he would have won the
:53:25. > :53:31.election out right. Maybe that he should do a deal with Nigel to get
:53:31. > :53:36.ahead in the next election? I am not a great believer in a packed
:53:36. > :53:40.and alliances to win elections. We should have the election campaign
:53:41. > :53:43.and UKIP do well in European elections and that support has not
:53:43. > :53:49.translate through to a general election. The general election will
:53:49. > :53:51.be won by the party that has the best policies to maintain the
:53:51. > :53:54.living standards and job creation the country needs. That is the
:53:54. > :53:59.issue that is central to people's lives. That will determine how they
:53:59. > :54:02.vote. Nigel Farage, you fought the last general election yourself and
:54:02. > :54:08.the danger that you always face is that you do not win anything
:54:08. > :54:13.yourself, you split the right-wing vote and letting the Lib Dems or
:54:13. > :54:18.Labour win. His store at the UKIP did well in European elections and
:54:18. > :54:21.its existence was seen as a protest vote against our membership of the
:54:21. > :54:25.European Union. While it is fully justified, the party today has
:54:25. > :54:28.evolved and changed. We are not talking about who governs Britain,
:54:28. > :54:33.we are talking about how that Britain should be governed and that
:54:33. > :54:43.is what we have got - a broad manifesto talking about education,
:54:43. > :54:43.
:54:43. > :54:53.green taxes, open-door immigration, talking about the thing that we
:54:53. > :54:58.think need to happen. But these are the issues at Damian's constituency.
:54:58. > :55:04.One gets raised in everybody's post back and surgery, our policies like
:55:04. > :55:08.open-door immigration at a time of rising unemployment. -- those are
:55:08. > :55:13.Policies. The things that get talked about and certainly I could
:55:13. > :55:17.talk to about are why are we giving �50 million a day to a European
:55:17. > :55:21.Union whose accounts have not been signed off for the past 17 years
:55:21. > :55:27.when the money is needed at home? Surrey, Nigel, we will come back to
:55:27. > :55:31.you in a minute. Your party leader started talking about a new
:55:31. > :55:34.settlement for the European Union. He stopped short of a referendum
:55:34. > :55:39.which is what Nigel would like him to commit to. What would you like
:55:39. > :55:42.him to do, or would you like a referendum? The important thing is
:55:42. > :55:46.concerned about what Britain's relationship with Europe will be.
:55:46. > :55:51.It is quite clear that Europe is changing. Europe may need new
:55:51. > :55:56.powers to solve the crisis. Britain will not be part of that and the
:55:56. > :56:00.Conservative Party campaign is for us to stay out of the eurozone. But
:56:01. > :56:04.if Europe changes, our relationship will change as well. Most people
:56:04. > :56:07.will want the kind of free trade arrangement that we had when we
:56:07. > :56:14.joined the Common Market in the 1970s. If we can get that New Deal
:56:14. > :56:18.and get powers back that we want, it is right that we get some
:56:18. > :56:21.consent for that new deal. David Cameron has been talking about but
:56:21. > :56:31.a lot of that is the correct approach. At the moment, if he said
:56:31. > :56:35.if we had a referendum, people would say what that means for them.
:56:35. > :56:39.Now a be in the next Parliament? my constituency, one person makes
:56:39. > :56:43.toys and distributes them to 16 retail outlets across the European
:56:43. > :56:47.Union, and I am sure that if they have a referendum, they would ask
:56:47. > :56:51.what it would mean for the business. These are the questions that people
:56:51. > :56:57.need to get an answer for. Nigel, you have been dismissed as a
:56:57. > :57:02.provisional wing of the Rotary Club and you have been dismissed as
:57:02. > :57:09.David Cameron call to fruitcakes and closet racists. I know you were
:57:09. > :57:16.fined recently for your outburst in the Europe. Against Herman van
:57:17. > :57:22.Rompuy way. I am not. I am not having this, I called Herman van
:57:22. > :57:26.Rompuy a damp rag, Boris Johnson was talking about dishcloths are.
:57:26. > :57:31.This is ludicrous. You do not think you're helping yourself with us,
:57:31. > :57:36.and? You said yourself that David Cameron has accused us of being
:57:36. > :57:40.closet racists, eccentrics and lunatics and I put a bit of fun by
:57:40. > :57:47.saying someone has got the charisma of a damp rag and suddenly I am the
:57:47. > :57:57.biggest bully in Europe. No apology from me. Now it is time for the
:57:57. > :58:01.regular round up all the politics Did David Cameron no more than he
:58:01. > :58:06.was letting on when he spoke to us about the cost of commuting in the
:58:06. > :58:10.South East last week? I am not satisfied by what is happening on
:58:10. > :58:15.the railways. Annual increases would be 1% above inflation just
:58:15. > :58:18.under 3%. Thanet District Council is facing a judicial review over
:58:19. > :58:22.his decision to suspend live animal exports through Ramsgate. The
:58:22. > :58:27.authority which owns the port took the decision after 40 sheep have to
:58:27. > :58:30.be put down. A plans by Paramount for a �2
:58:30. > :58:35.billion theme park could impose the sight of a new Thames crossing. A
:58:35. > :58:38.council leader says the application for the park is the most favourable
:58:38. > :58:42.of three possible routes for a third crossing.
:58:42. > :58:46.And Boris has been banging the drum for industry airport again. After
:58:46. > :58:50.calling for a review into aviation capacity to be speeded up, he took
:58:50. > :58:56.his message to the Conservative Party conference. We are going to
:58:56. > :59:02.sort out our Aviation capacity problem, aren't we? Yes. But we
:59:02. > :59:06.will not bowler third runway. -- build a third runway. I know you
:59:06. > :59:11.did not go to hear his speech in Birmingham, but what about Boris as
:59:11. > :59:17.a future leader of the Conservative Party? He is a great popular figure
:59:17. > :59:22.and we need characters and personalities in politics. We have
:59:22. > :59:26.got a good leader but I think Boris, like every other member of the
:59:26. > :59:30.party, is behind David Cameron. is not ruling it out. Not, long
:59:30. > :59:34.term. We will have a look at that when the time comes but he is a
:59:34. > :59:38.great figure and we will continue to enjoy him. Nigel Farage, he
:59:38. > :59:41.would give you a run for your money. I like Boris, he's great and he
:59:41. > :59:45.believes we should have a referendum on Europe and believes
:59:45. > :59:55.that British business needs a break and he is the only Tory politician
:59:55. > :59:55.
:59:55. > :59:59.who you could talk to as a UKIP member. Maybe you could do a deal.
:59:59. > :00:02.What I will push for is an in Out referendum and if David Cameron
:00:02. > :00:06.does not wake up to the fact that is what nearly 80% of its own
:00:06. > :00:14.voters want, he is doomed to lose the next general election by a big
:00:14. > :00:20.margin. Iron-clad Nigel managed to get that in about a question about
:00:20. > :00:24.Boris. By due to be aimed efficient one-club golfer than to be a Tory
:00:24. > :00:27.Prime Minister who has let down millions of Conservative voters.
:00:27. > :00:31.Nigel Farage, it is a shame we couldn't have you in the studio.