:01:33. > :01:43.Weekend hearings and appearances by a video links and the South East.
:01:43. > :01:43.
:01:43. > :37:23.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2139 seconds
:37:23. > :37:26.Is it fair on defendants and I am Julia George and this is the
:37:26. > :37:29.Sunday Politics in the South East. Coming up later:
:37:29. > :37:35.Will government attempts to fast track planning permissions help or
:37:35. > :37:37.hinder the South East economy? With me in the studio sharing their
:37:37. > :37:40.thoughts on the big stories are Tracey Crouch the Conservative MP
:37:40. > :37:45.for Chatham, and Paul Richards a Sussex-based Labour commentator.
:37:45. > :37:47.Nice to have you both here. Four days left until the first
:37:47. > :37:57.Police and Crime Commissioners elections for Kent, Sussex and
:37:57. > :38:02.
:38:02. > :38:06.Surrey. Everyone says it will be a
:38:06. > :38:11.shockingly low turnout but people seem engaged, it you think we will
:38:11. > :38:14.be surprised? I think we have got more engaged as the election
:38:14. > :38:16.more engaged as the election process has gone on. It is very
:38:17. > :38:20.different to a normal campaign. Am not surprised that people feel they
:38:20. > :38:25.have not had as much information as they could have but people have
:38:25. > :38:31.been coming up to me and asking me about it. We could be surprised on
:38:31. > :38:36.Thursday. You wanted to be a police crime commissioner, I'm sure you're
:38:36. > :38:41.over that you weren't selected for it, would this be more attractive
:38:41. > :38:47.to people as an election if there was less ball -- party politics?
:38:47. > :38:50.How can you take it out of policing? The demarcation between
:38:50. > :38:55.operational or not operational is quite clear. She know how many
:38:55. > :38:59.people said they would rather have independent candidates only?
:39:00. > :39:04.two out of those it will be going to the elections. I would be put in
:39:04. > :39:09.money on no independent winning anywhere. Four days until you make
:39:09. > :39:12.your mind up. Still on the subject of crime-
:39:12. > :39:14.courts, Sussex and Kent are taking part in a government pilot scheme
:39:14. > :39:17.to deliver 'swift justice' by hearing cases in the evenings and
:39:17. > :39:19.weekends. They are also using virtual technology so defendants
:39:19. > :39:29.appear from police stations by video link. Are these experimental
:39:29. > :39:35.
:39:35. > :39:41.flexible courts really up to the As riots reached last summer courts
:39:41. > :39:44.across Manchester, Birmingham and London were open round the clock.
:39:44. > :39:49.Offenders could be arrested, charged and sentenced on the same
:39:49. > :39:55.day it was unprecedented. David Cameron called it swift justice for
:39:55. > :39:58.troublemakers. It sped up the way the courts operate. In July the
:39:58. > :40:02.Government announced that magistrates' courts would act more
:40:02. > :40:07.flexibly and open in the evenings and weekends. There are already
:40:07. > :40:14.trying it out here in Brighton and in crawling, would be and the
:40:14. > :40:18.Hastings. The other ways to increase the number of defendants
:40:18. > :40:25.appearing in court is going via video link, but will this cost
:40:25. > :40:29.more? And does more speed me more justice?
:40:29. > :40:34.This is where the screeners. This is where we are linked to the
:40:34. > :40:37.courts. North Kent has been part of or at
:40:37. > :40:44.National Trial of a virtual courts for three years now. There are
:40:44. > :40:49.about to begin the evening sittings also. We have extended hours and
:40:49. > :40:52.that means instead of keeping people unnecessarily overnight, we
:40:52. > :40:57.can put them before a magistrate that same day and reduce the need
:40:57. > :41:02.to keep them in the police station. Instead of appearing in court in
:41:02. > :41:06.person there plot of a special room in the police station. They can see
:41:06. > :41:11.what is happening on screen and give evidence to the camera which
:41:12. > :41:18.is broadcast to the court room. When the pilot scheme started in
:41:18. > :41:23.2009 it did not save money, it costs an extra �247 per defendant.
:41:23. > :41:30.Courts but told to speed up to cut costs. There was to be 610 minutes
:41:30. > :41:36.hearings and I were. For victims that can seem too fast. With some
:41:36. > :41:42.courts equipped, and some not, victims are supposed to go further
:41:42. > :41:46.to hear the cases heard. The impact of acrimony is quite significant.
:41:46. > :41:51.To feel that that is heard in such a short time could be a
:41:51. > :42:00.disadvantage. In terms of seeing the person in the real life it has
:42:00. > :42:03.greater impact. -- the impact of a crime. It is not just victims to
:42:03. > :42:07.feel that face-to-face meetings with defendants make a difference.
:42:07. > :42:14.It is also important for the lawyers representing them at
:42:14. > :42:22.crucial first hearings. He is a senior member of the Law Society
:42:22. > :42:26.and he once more it changes for the impact on lawyers. Law firms will
:42:26. > :42:31.have a greater expense. We will not be paid any more for the work we do
:42:31. > :42:36.out of hours. But we will have to pay our staff were working overtime.
:42:36. > :42:42.Virtual calls on a major concern. The defendant will not meet his
:42:42. > :42:46.lawyer face to face. So the first time that you appear in court, it
:42:46. > :42:49.will be likely that when the court is seeking new remand in custody,
:42:50. > :42:54.so the state want to lock you up, you will be defended by someone you
:42:54. > :42:57.have never met and that is not good for justice and is not right.
:42:57. > :43:02.Defendants do not get to choose whether they appear in person or
:43:02. > :43:08.via video. Defendants are more likely to plead guilty in a virtual
:43:08. > :43:12.court situation. That is what has been shown. Within 3,000 people
:43:12. > :43:20.appeared before the courts after the riots last year. Two-thirds
:43:20. > :43:25.were convicted. 716 people were sentenced at magistrates' court.
:43:25. > :43:30.37% of them served an immediate custodial sentence. It is higher
:43:30. > :43:34.than the normal rate of sentencing for similar offences. Gerry and the
:43:34. > :43:41.wry its swift justice was not always there and was extremely
:43:41. > :43:44.punitive. -- we saw during the riots. Excessive use of custody was
:43:44. > :43:50.used and that meant that people that could be dealt with in the
:43:50. > :43:54.community were instead locked up for days or weeks on end in prison.
:43:54. > :44:00.Swift justice is expensive and is not always there, it does not deal
:44:00. > :44:07.fairly with the victims or defendants. There is widespread
:44:07. > :44:17.support for more technology in our courts. But that is talking about
:44:17. > :44:22.
:44:22. > :44:25.efficiency Verses improvements. Lucinda Adam reporting. Let us put
:44:25. > :44:28.some of those questions raised to Mike O'Brien, Chair of the Medway
:44:28. > :44:36.Community Safety Partnership and member of Medway Council. They have
:44:36. > :44:42.been piloting the virtual courts since 2009.
:44:42. > :44:49.Are you pitting efficiency ahead of justice here? No, I do not think
:44:49. > :44:52.we're. Certain cases are suitable, generally demand cases, it its
:44:52. > :44:58.swift and short justice to the community. It is also very
:44:58. > :45:02.important for Beckham -- for the victims as well. The need to see
:45:02. > :45:08.justice happening. I personally have had no problems with the
:45:08. > :45:14.virtual court system that I was a part of in my time as a magistrate.
:45:14. > :45:18.Let us talk about the money. These are undeniably quicker but I'd be
:45:18. > :45:26.cheaper? A Ministry of Justice report found the scheme cost more
:45:26. > :45:30.money that an less. Technology increased the cost in each case by
:45:30. > :45:38.�250 in that report their by us. If that wind across the country it
:45:38. > :45:42.would be next to �12.1 million in ten years. Where is the value?
:45:42. > :45:47.value it is the odd salary costs. For instance, the costs of police
:45:47. > :45:52.officers. It has been since do that none mind that we have been running
:45:52. > :45:59.this scheme in Kent. Over 2,200 people had been dealt with by the
:45:59. > :46:01.virtual court. That is saved over 300 hours of as a man time. It does
:46:01. > :46:06.mean that police officers can be back on the street in front line
:46:06. > :46:10.services. But the Ministry of Justice pit those sums together.
:46:10. > :46:15.They looked at how much it had saved and how much it had cost and
:46:15. > :46:19.still come up with the figure of nearly 250 pence more. And then
:46:19. > :46:29.they had to say they had not done them quickly enough and the needed
:46:29. > :46:30.
:46:30. > :46:34.to rush them, that hundred and �50 is an extra cost. -- �250. He in my
:46:34. > :46:39.time as a magistrate looking at the keys as I had in front of me, it
:46:39. > :46:43.was never suggested to me. Let us talk about a different sort of
:46:43. > :46:47.justice. Was on the report that you're more likely to be convicted
:46:47. > :46:54.and you're more likely to have a longer conviction if we look at the
:46:54. > :46:58.swift justice and line -- in London and elsewhere. Is it worrying that
:46:58. > :47:04.you get a different sort of justice if you go through this swift and
:47:04. > :47:11.flexible court process? No, and indeed, I know that magistrates
:47:11. > :47:17.throughout Kent itself will apply a strict judicial interest to each
:47:17. > :47:20.case that they have in front of them. It makes not a little bit of
:47:20. > :47:27.difference to the magistrates whether the defendant is on a
:47:27. > :47:33.virtual link or in front of them in the court. The reality is, swifter
:47:33. > :47:40.justice is more efficient justice, and initially there were hiccups,
:47:40. > :47:45.there were hiccups with the sales being at distance away from the
:47:45. > :47:51.interview room that they were using. All these problems have now been
:47:51. > :47:56.overcome. In fact, it seems to me, but it is going from strength to
:47:56. > :48:01.strength. We will be able to eventually be able to have
:48:01. > :48:06.witnesses able to give witness statements and evidence under
:48:06. > :48:12.virtual link. We have to leave it there, good Abyan the programme.
:48:12. > :48:16.Let us make a simple distinction between that man in the remote TV
:48:16. > :48:19.studio and you both sitting here. You would always rather do in
:48:19. > :48:26.interviewed face-to-face in the studio with me than at down the
:48:26. > :48:31.line. Can you see the comparison here between someone in is... We're
:48:31. > :48:34.talking about freedom by it that you will link, is that there.
:48:34. > :48:39.Sometimes it is more appropriate to do it down the line. And she that
:48:39. > :48:43.he has not got an hour to come over to do this interview today. That is
:48:43. > :48:49.why we have this much will interview. But you know you were at
:48:49. > :48:54.a disadvantage in a television situation. Imagine if you justice
:48:54. > :49:00.and freedom was at stake. These are really good ideas for a certain
:49:00. > :49:06.crimes. Why is it needs must when we have falling crime? I think you
:49:06. > :49:10.can take a specific one might drink driving. Someone gets pulled over
:49:10. > :49:16.several times over the limit and can be brought to just that --
:49:16. > :49:22.brought to justice within hours. Justice delayed is justice denied.
:49:22. > :49:25.You can deal with these situations straight away. What other sort of
:49:25. > :49:31.offences do you think we should be sick we assume someone is guilty on
:49:31. > :49:37.which is basically what you're saying. What happened about
:49:37. > :49:43.innocent approving guilty? You are still going to court. But within 90
:49:43. > :49:47.minutes. As a magistrate you always under time limits. It is a balance,
:49:47. > :49:52.you cannot have serious crimes done like this. But there are grounds
:49:52. > :49:56.that can be dealt with. Are you not alarmed by anything your hair done
:49:56. > :49:59.that report? The fact that it was costing more money and you get a
:49:59. > :50:04.different conviction rate when you do these quick court hearings?
:50:04. > :50:08.does not need to cost more money. The initial pilot cost more, but as
:50:08. > :50:11.people get used to the system the money will come down. It will
:50:11. > :50:16.become cheaper. I do not think it will deny justice because
:50:16. > :50:22.magistrates are still bound by the same guidelines if it was not been
:50:22. > :50:28.done remotely. There is still the same straitjacket on the justice.
:50:28. > :50:33.Are you surprised to hear a Labour voice supporting a Coalition paper?
:50:33. > :50:37.What the victims really want is fast justice. They want to see
:50:37. > :50:45.something done quickly. The do not want the keys hanging on for months
:50:45. > :50:48.and months. Thank you both very much.
:50:48. > :50:50.Should it be easier for developers to get planning permission to build
:50:50. > :50:52.new homes, new roads, new telecommunication masts? The latest
:50:52. > :50:55.plans could see local authorities by-passed, with applications
:50:55. > :50:58.referred up to to central government to speed up the process.
:50:58. > :51:01.Where does that leave localism? And do we really need any more plots in
:51:01. > :51:04.the South East that have planning permission but never get built on?
:51:04. > :51:11.Let us start the debate with Georgia Wrighton from the Campaign
:51:11. > :51:17.to Protect Rural England, she is in our Brighton studio. What is the
:51:17. > :51:21.biggest problem with this new Bill? It is that it is being taken away
:51:21. > :51:25.from central Government and we have been working very hard with local
:51:25. > :51:29.authorities for sustainable environments locally. That is
:51:29. > :51:32.looking his wit -- at weir environmental limits are. In the
:51:32. > :51:38.proposal we are concerned that speed is supposed to be the same as
:51:38. > :51:43.quality. For us that is not the case. We want to see well-planned
:51:43. > :51:48.development in the right place. We want social needs met and
:51:48. > :51:58.recognition of environmental limits. When that is taken away from an egg
:51:58. > :52:03.
:52:03. > :52:06.and corps leave local level of different things come first. Yapped
:52:06. > :52:12.at some comeback against local authorities that just do not get
:52:12. > :52:15.anything done. -- you have to see. I think so but people are saying
:52:15. > :52:25.that speed is the most important thing and that is not always the
:52:25. > :52:26.
:52:26. > :52:31.case. We would quality developments in the right place. There is a
:52:31. > :52:36.suggestion that the Government favours localism but they frown
:52:36. > :52:42.upon it when communities want to see more recognition. We will pick
:52:42. > :52:45.up on localism with the politicians, but from you, what you think about
:52:45. > :52:55.building on green belt land if you read designate other land
:52:55. > :52:57.
:52:57. > :53:02.afterwards? What they're saying is there is other land available.
:53:02. > :53:07.There are 400,000 existing planning permissions existing at only half
:53:07. > :53:13.of them have been built on. But her plenty of sites that are still
:53:13. > :53:18.available that have not been taken up yet. We want to see their first
:53:19. > :53:25.policy reinstated also. We feel there is no need to build on green
:53:25. > :53:29.belt land at the moment. Thank you very much. Is there any about
:53:29. > :53:34.planning? The Local Government Association, Tracy Crouch, have
:53:34. > :53:37.said that in the South East we have the highest number and percentage
:53:37. > :53:42.of planning permissions gained and then no one turns up to do that
:53:42. > :53:47.building work. There is a to bottle neck here with planning, is there?
:53:47. > :53:53.That is what this bill is here to do. Planning has been granted but
:53:53. > :53:59.developers have not be able to get on. Because of money. Sometimes it
:53:59. > :54:03.is because of the complexities around planning. What we have seen
:54:03. > :54:12.his permission being granted to build homes but due to some very
:54:12. > :54:16.complex and associations around six it -- section 106 their development
:54:17. > :54:21.had been stalled and the Government had to step in and renegotiate
:54:21. > :54:26.between the council and the developers to ensure that the
:54:26. > :54:29.process was met. And hundred and �50 million had been invested in
:54:29. > :54:36.their sight. Plans would lead and there was a need for further
:54:36. > :54:41.investment. It is about developers giving money to local regeneration
:54:41. > :54:44.schemes to get the planning permission in the first place.
:54:44. > :54:50.Bill moves away from these agreements. Do think that is a good
:54:50. > :54:55.thing? All the sudden developers are being told that you do not have
:54:55. > :54:59.to bother with the planning permissions as before. There is at
:54:59. > :55:04.present -- there is a housing crisis particularly in the South
:55:04. > :55:11.East. The age people that people can buy houses that is getting
:55:11. > :55:16.older. He then needs to be a regional approach. You cannot just
:55:16. > :55:21.do it on the local level. I came up on a train and there is lot is
:55:21. > :55:25.based in the county. You can build sustainable communities that people
:55:25. > :55:29.want to live in. The Government is not putting money any word that it
:55:30. > :55:34.needs to be. It is also a good way of getting the economy moving by
:55:34. > :55:37.giving money to these building firms. The Local Government
:55:37. > :55:42.Association says that it is clear that planning is not the main
:55:42. > :55:48.barrier to growth, these are just the main problem is access for at
:55:48. > :55:52.first-time buyers and access finances for the builders. Is that
:55:53. > :55:57.not talking about the programme -- army not to commit a problem that
:55:57. > :56:03.does not exist? No, if we look at the work of the last Labour
:56:03. > :56:09.Government, we have taken that a lot further and forwarded to
:56:09. > :56:13.streamline planning. You were not wrong though, there are other
:56:13. > :56:17.issues that need to be thought about. The Government are thinking
:56:17. > :56:21.about that. Just briefly, how would you feel of the Government came to
:56:21. > :56:25.you and said that they were going to put some development end and
:56:25. > :56:29.they were going to back it in Chatham, be do not as your other
:56:29. > :56:34.people or the council? That is not how what is going to work anyway.
:56:34. > :56:37.The planning process still has to go forward. It would still be
:56:37. > :56:41.referred to the Planning Inspectorate. It is about
:56:41. > :56:46.streamlining so that the complexities of the planning
:56:46. > :56:55.structures which is a long process sometimes will be streamlined.
:56:55. > :56:58.will now move on. Now our regular round up of the
:56:58. > :57:08.political week in the South East in 60 Seconds. Here is our Political
:57:08. > :57:09.
:57:09. > :57:14.This man said he was disgusted after his employment contract was
:57:14. > :57:17.changed to cut his sick pay. He made the discovery when he needed
:57:17. > :57:22.time off for his heart condition. The Government said that it should
:57:22. > :57:28.be changed back. A Defence Minister spoke movingly
:57:28. > :57:33.about a corporal who died in Afghanistan. Caroline Lucas asked
:57:33. > :57:37.for immediate withdrawal of British troops.
:57:37. > :57:42.South-east residents had been asked to call the hotline if the C ash
:57:42. > :57:47.dieback in their area. It has been confirmed in Kent and Sussex.
:57:47. > :57:52.David Green gave his opinion on Nadine Dory is decision to go to
:57:52. > :57:56.Australia by it taking part on and a celebrity get near to appear.
:57:56. > :58:06.will be struggling with it, but I will be voting loyally for her to
:58:06. > :58:15.
:58:15. > :58:20.What will talk like that and the moment. But more seriously, what
:58:20. > :58:27.you think about the contract for one of her employees, at your local
:58:27. > :58:31.MP, and the change of sick pay. is not something I can condone. You
:58:31. > :58:36.have to look after your staff are very well. The media is successful
:58:36. > :58:41.as you can be. My secretary had a heart attack last year and I sent
:58:41. > :58:46.her flowers. I could not dream of messing around with a contract.
:58:46. > :58:53.think this is a serious mistake. Unfortunately, I do. I hope that
:58:53. > :58:58.the man is getting better now and I know that having a heart attack and
:58:58. > :59:04.recovering is incredibly stressful. She should hang her head in shame.
:59:04. > :59:08.If anybody was to get cut it was her and not Nadine Tories. I have a
:59:08. > :59:11.say in the House this week. What would you say to if you saw her now.
:59:11. > :59:17.I would say to it that she is making a mistake and she should
:59:17. > :59:21.offer a full apology. And look at the contract and given the money he
:59:21. > :59:27.deserves. Yes, and the cut the contract. It has been rewarded back
:59:27. > :59:33.to the original wording. But why did she do it in the first place?
:59:33. > :59:40.A brief word on Madine Tories. Would you ever take part in that?
:59:40. > :59:45.You would like to stay there as long as possible? I think it was
:59:45. > :59:50.completely misjudged. The response had to be a bit later. It will be
:59:50. > :59:54.useful to the world of MPs and politics perhaps. What is she like?
:59:54. > :00:00.I do not really know her very well. I do not think that politicians
:00:00. > :00:04.should really go on reality shows. Why not? Because we have a job to
:00:04. > :00:08.do. The taxpayer pays me to represent them not to go to the
:00:08. > :00:12.jungle. We will remember that if you ever take part in one of those