:01:26. > :01:35.And in the South East: Are MPs putting political popularity over
:01:36. > :01:36.
:01:36. > :39:09.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2253 seconds
:39:09. > :39:14.proper patient care when it comes Hello, and Natalie Graham and this
:39:14. > :39:18.is the Sunday Politics in the south-east. Coming up, our new
:39:18. > :39:22.squatting laws which led to a Sussex MP being pelted by
:39:22. > :39:27.protesters a distraction by the real problem of housing shortages
:39:27. > :39:30.in the region? Joining me in the studio is the Labour leader of
:39:30. > :39:36.Hastings Borough Council Jeremy Birch, and Professor of journalism
:39:36. > :39:41.at Kent University, Tim Luckhurst. Jeremy and the rest of Hastings had
:39:42. > :39:45.been celebrating news that the town's pier is going to get �11.4
:39:45. > :39:51.million of Heritage Lottery funding so it can be restored. The 140
:39:51. > :39:55.year-old pier has hosted Jimi Hendrix and Rolling Stones gigs in
:39:55. > :39:59.the past. Then it burned down, the plan is it for its to return to the
:39:59. > :40:06.glories of its past. A lot of economic hopes in breast --
:40:06. > :40:11.Hastings rest of the plan, is it dangerous to rest so much on one
:40:11. > :40:15.structure? This is a conservation and heritage project, but it is
:40:15. > :40:18.also a regeneration project. You can revive that part of the
:40:18. > :40:22.seafront with a new pier, then businesses will look at the other
:40:22. > :40:26.sections of the area. We want to draw visitors from our old town
:40:26. > :40:30.which is great further along into further part of Hastings. It is not
:40:30. > :40:34.the only show in town, there are any -- there are plenty of other
:40:34. > :40:44.things going on in Hastings. The pier, and iconic structure, it
:40:44. > :40:44.
:40:44. > :40:49.would make a big difference to the town. Piers art... It is iconic me
:40:49. > :40:55.because Pink Floyd played there in 1968, it was the last time that Syd
:40:55. > :41:02.Barrett played with them. It is not just iconic, a real part of rock
:41:02. > :41:05.legend. The services at two Sussex
:41:06. > :41:09.hospitals are going to be streamlined. The changes at the
:41:09. > :41:16.Conquest in hating and the DGH in Eastbourne were overlay --
:41:16. > :41:21.overwhelmingly voted through on Friday, despite strong protests led
:41:21. > :41:27.by local MPs. Similar plant in Kent have also led the vocal opposition.
:41:27. > :41:30.Have these protests flown in the face with evidence suggesting week
:41:30. > :41:34.bickering surges -- services is good for patients?
:41:34. > :41:38.It is an issue that brings people in the south-east out to march
:41:38. > :41:43.through the streets. They want major health services like accident
:41:43. > :41:48.and emergency consultant led maternity, orthopaedics and surgery
:41:48. > :41:55.available in their town. Their MPs have been marching with them,
:41:55. > :41:58.saying local services can mean saving local votes. Not everyone
:41:58. > :42:01.thinks these politicians are fighting for the best interests of
:42:02. > :42:05.their constituents. If you campaign for having all your services and
:42:05. > :42:10.not consolidating special services, the evidence shows that patients
:42:10. > :42:13.are not going to get the best- quality care. We simply cannot
:42:13. > :42:16.replicate high quality care in every hospital. There is a long
:42:16. > :42:21.history of politicians campaigning for the local health services, but
:42:21. > :42:26.we need to get Blom that. We need amateur response from politics -- a
:42:26. > :42:30.we need to get beyond that. We need a mature response from politicians,
:42:30. > :42:34.to say what are safe and sustainable services, not to be
:42:34. > :42:39.sentimental about Lord Coe -- local services. Think strategically, what
:42:39. > :42:43.is the best possible set of services for my constituents?
:42:43. > :42:47.number of local district hospitals in England has decreased by 85% in
:42:47. > :42:54.the last 50 years. That is because medical advances have meant a clear
:42:54. > :42:59.trend towards fewer, larger hospitals with special care units
:42:59. > :43:03.particularly in emergency care. Experts argue that centralising
:43:03. > :43:08.services saves money and lives. Evidence on the NHS in London
:43:08. > :43:12.suggests that out-of-hours emergency surgery can be unsafe if
:43:12. > :43:17.hospitals struggle to get adequate senior staff. It said centralising
:43:17. > :43:21.services would mean at least 500 fewer deaths per year. Stroke care
:43:21. > :43:26.in the capital has been centralised into eight highly specialised units.
:43:26. > :43:30.It is estimated that will mean an extra 400 lives are saved each year.
:43:30. > :43:37.That is where plans were put forward in East Sussex to
:43:37. > :43:41.concentrate emergency and high risk orthopaedic and General surgery at
:43:42. > :43:45.the Conquest and strokes services at the District Cama Hospital. The
:43:45. > :43:49.medical director in charge of these plans says just 15 people each day
:43:49. > :43:55.would have to travel further for their car -- care. Less than 1% of
:43:55. > :44:01.patients. Fundamentally it is about insuring that the depth of
:44:01. > :44:04.experience in vibrant specialist units are able to provide that high
:44:04. > :44:12.quality service. In order to provide those services seven-days-
:44:12. > :44:18.a-week, we need staff to provide that. Providing that staff, so
:44:18. > :44:23.duplicating that staff, on two sites, is not clinically
:44:23. > :44:27.sustainable and is also not find it is sustainable. I think very simply,
:44:27. > :44:34.-- financially sustainable. I think very simply, we are securing the
:44:34. > :44:39.future of both our acute hospitals for the patients. Four years ago,
:44:39. > :44:45.plans to centralise consultant led births in Hastings, leaving an only
:44:45. > :44:49.need her -- only a midwifery unit in he Eastbourne, were defeated by
:44:49. > :44:52.campaigners. But in Kent, similar calls did not succeed. There were
:44:52. > :44:57.concerns about mothers in Labour travelling further to the new unit
:44:57. > :45:00.in Pembrey, but one year on, the hospital says outcome and patient
:45:00. > :45:06.satisfaction have improved. Now maternity services in East Kent
:45:06. > :45:10.have been centralised as well. Over in Brighton, the Royal says its --
:45:10. > :45:14.the Royal Sussex County Hospital is specialised trauma centres serving
:45:14. > :45:18.the whole of the south-east. If you are in the back of an ambulance,
:45:18. > :45:23.you go past on the most hospital but what you get at the end of it
:45:23. > :45:27.is a much better all-round quality of care. So what you get is a much
:45:27. > :45:32.greater chance of you recovering fully from it. There has been a lot
:45:32. > :45:38.of Alliance from the hospital as a building, as a place where a lot of
:45:38. > :45:40.services is deliverance. A model is changing and needs to change,
:45:40. > :45:44.because there are a lot of people sitting in a hospital bed to could
:45:44. > :45:50.be treated elsewhere. Concentrating services is helping the NHS make
:45:50. > :45:55.budget cuts of �20 million by 2014. But drawn up campaigns to save
:45:55. > :46:00.local hospitals can be an expensive process. Petitions are launched,
:46:00. > :46:03.judicial reviews, appeals are made. Ultimately that is taxpayers' money
:46:03. > :46:08.being spent by the local NHS trust that does not want to lose
:46:08. > :46:11.particular services, and it can go on for years. A huge amount of
:46:11. > :46:16.money is spent on these appeals. Ultimately the same decision is
:46:16. > :46:22.made. Campaign marches make a great photo opportunity but are our MPs
:46:22. > :46:28.but of political popularity eggheads -- putting political
:46:28. > :46:33.popularity ahead of communicating the constituents the case became
:46:33. > :46:37.she -- the case for change? Joining us from Eastbourne is the town's
:46:37. > :46:41.Liberal Democrat MP Stephen Lloyd, who has been a vociferous campaign
:46:41. > :46:47.in favour of maintaining existing services at his local hospital. It
:46:47. > :46:49.sounds as though these changes are in the best interests of your
:46:49. > :46:53.constituents say you would be serving the better if you are
:46:53. > :46:57.supporting the hospitals. There are so many things I disagree with that
:46:57. > :47:01.report that they do not know where to start. Let me keep -- keep it
:47:01. > :47:05.straight forward, that is the road between DGH and Conquest. That is
:47:05. > :47:13.one of the worst roads in the south coast. In the last six years, we
:47:13. > :47:20.have had 70 fatalities, 4000 accidents, 700 desperately...
:47:20. > :47:25.You there, we have rehearsed these arguments very many times. There is
:47:25. > :47:30.a new road being built. In that report, 1% of patients are affected.
:47:30. > :47:34.The overwhelming support is for the changes because the inconvenience
:47:34. > :47:38.is outweighed for the better care they will receive in Hastings.
:47:38. > :47:43.is 15 patients per day which is 5000 per year. That is 5000 people
:47:43. > :47:47.travelling from Eastbourne and the surrounding area to the Conquest of
:47:47. > :47:52.a rotten wrote in serious emergency cases. We are talking about
:47:52. > :47:57.clinicians, I have got over 95% of consultants at DGH saying it would
:47:57. > :48:02.be the wrong move to move orthopaedics to the Conquest, and
:48:02. > :48:06.Rousham or surgery. Why do they think that, when the Royal College
:48:06. > :48:10.of Physicians, the NHS Federation, the King's Fund, the national
:48:10. > :48:17.clinical advisory team, all feel this is the right thing to do for
:48:17. > :48:23.patients? Even on the report to talk about, the consultant they set
:48:23. > :48:27.down here was not a role consultant, he was from London. -- a rural
:48:27. > :48:33.consultant. When you have got that percentage of DGH senior clinicians
:48:33. > :48:38.saying a strongly as they do that they disagree, I have got a list.
:48:38. > :48:44.Why do they disagree? Could it be they just do not like change?
:48:44. > :48:50.when you have got that sort of percentage, it was 99%. I think for
:48:50. > :48:56.was only -- I think there was only one DGH consultant who agreed. At
:48:56. > :49:01.the board meeting a couple of days ago, it is -- it was news, our
:49:01. > :49:06.local GP commissioning body did not agree with sending orthopaedics and
:49:06. > :49:09.general surgery to be Conquest. I have to tell you clearly, part of
:49:10. > :49:14.the four tests that the government says Amy reconfiguration plans have
:49:14. > :49:19.to agree with says that GP commissioning body has to support
:49:19. > :49:25.it. You have not explained to me why... Mr Lloyd, you have not
:49:25. > :49:30.explained to me why... I am not a commission. If I had spent lord
:49:30. > :49:36.knows how many years as an NHS consultant, I would be able to give
:49:36. > :49:40.you clinical advice. When you have got that many clinical conditions...
:49:40. > :49:43.There are fewer deaths in high- volume hospitals, patients spent
:49:44. > :49:48.less time in hospital, they will get better care, senior doctors
:49:48. > :49:54.seven days a week. At the moment stroke services in your local
:49:54. > :49:58.hospital are not making local standards. This is good for your
:49:58. > :50:03.constituents. On the stroke, that is a fair point. Our campaign has
:50:03. > :50:08.never been against any specialised groupings per say. It is on
:50:08. > :50:13.specifics. Gemmell surgery. The chief executive, I saw in the paper
:50:13. > :50:17.last week, was talking about 15 people per day, but his 5000 people
:50:17. > :50:21.in the year. The roads in Eastbourne are falling and that
:50:21. > :50:25.road is not going to be done a miraculously in the next year, it
:50:25. > :50:29.is going to be done in the next few years. At the minute it is a
:50:29. > :50:35.desperately unsafe road. I have too many senior police she --
:50:35. > :50:39.commissions across the Place St this will be unsafe and this will
:50:39. > :50:43.downgrade the hospital. And when I hear that from serious people, I
:50:43. > :50:48.fight the corner and that is it what we are doing in Eastbourne and
:50:48. > :50:53.the surrounding area. Thank you for joining us.
:50:53. > :50:59.Jeremy Birch, this affects people you represent in Hastings. What is
:50:59. > :51:05.your view on the changes? The plan is that strokes centres would be
:51:05. > :51:07.centred in Eastbourne, orthopaedics and general surgery in Hastings. I
:51:08. > :51:11.think a hospital trust has to reassure people. It has got to say,
:51:11. > :51:15.it strikes services are in Eastbourne and people believe that
:51:15. > :51:21.strikes services time is of the effort -- essence, in the time it
:51:22. > :51:29.will take, patience to go from Hastings or other pasts of East
:51:29. > :51:33.Sussex into Easebourne, that safety will not be compromised, they will
:51:33. > :51:37.be treated in good time. There is overwhelming medical evidence that
:51:38. > :51:44.people who travel to East poor will get much better care. He was not
:51:44. > :51:48.reassured? I understand the position in London where people
:51:48. > :51:51.have been revived better because of having a centre of excellence. East
:51:52. > :51:59.Sussex is not London. You do not have another hospital just down the
:51:59. > :52:04.road, you have 70 miles in between these two hospitals. The trust has
:52:04. > :52:09.to reassure us in Hastings were stripped and the diseases are a
:52:09. > :52:13.bigger issue because of diet and deprivation, you have got to
:52:13. > :52:17.reassure us that time will not affect us. This is an interesting
:52:17. > :52:21.one for politicians. They will lose votes if they do not oppose the
:52:21. > :52:26.changes. I think that is probably right. Let's face it, local
:52:26. > :52:30.politicians have been fighting ever since the Second World War II
:52:31. > :52:40.maintain the 195 -- 9225 model health service for the General
:52:41. > :52:41.
:52:41. > :52:46.Hospital in every community. It is a lovely idea of people like it but
:52:46. > :52:53.people are better treated by centralist services. When the you
:52:53. > :52:57.think we will hear MPs, only one in the Commons has come out in favour
:52:57. > :53:03.of centralisation. Do you think we will see a change in MPs' views on
:53:03. > :53:07.a hospitalisation? I think they will go on speaking on behalf of
:53:07. > :53:09.their constitution -- constituents but they should not because it is
:53:09. > :53:13.in the interests of their constituents for centralised
:53:13. > :53:22.services. There have MP Mike Weatherley was
:53:22. > :53:27.pelted with missiles buyer group of protesters when he arrived to us
:53:27. > :53:31.make a speech about changes to the law about squatting. Is this focus
:53:31. > :53:35.on squatters distracting attention from the real problem of
:53:35. > :53:41.homelessness and housing shortages in the south-east? Mike Weatherley,
:53:41. > :53:46.the Member for Hove, joins us from Westminster. Have you recovered?
:53:46. > :53:52.Yes. I think the protest was much more violent battle introduction
:53:52. > :53:57.suggested. I was not injured but to a 5 ft of staff were, one still has
:53:57. > :54:02.printed -- two of my female staff were, one still has the bruises.
:54:02. > :54:08.You want to go further with this legislation so you are prepared for
:54:08. > :54:12.more pelted with missiles? I hope not. This is an attack on democracy.
:54:12. > :54:17.I was invited by the university to have a forthright debate, but what
:54:17. > :54:22.I did not want to was to be hijacked by a bunch of thugs or
:54:22. > :54:25.anarchists, some of which work into extremely violent, and all their
:54:25. > :54:30.intentions were work to make sure the arguments were not heard. We
:54:30. > :54:34.had very good arguments as to why a homelessness and empty properties
:54:34. > :54:42.need to be highlighted by its otters need to be criminalised.
:54:42. > :54:46.have taken on an organised group of squatters, we have a tradition of
:54:46. > :54:50.squatters in this area, is that not distracting from the issue of
:54:50. > :54:53.homelessness? We need to separate homelessness and squatters.
:54:53. > :55:00.Homeless people are vulnerable people that need to be looked after.
:55:00. > :55:07.Any compassionate society or need to look after their horrible people,
:55:07. > :55:10.these often people with mental health problems. Squatters tend to
:55:10. > :55:17.be wet sadly, they have I phones and mummy and daddy in detached
:55:17. > :55:21.houses in Berkshire. They are not homeless people. You are getting --
:55:21. > :55:27.you are saying there is a distinction, but the charity crisis
:55:27. > :55:31.says 40% of people who are rough sleepers rely on squatting. The
:55:31. > :55:37.empty properties are available. That is entirely wrong. I had a
:55:37. > :55:43.meeting with the CEO of Crisis, and that 40% includes homeless people
:55:43. > :55:53.who call into a doorway and leave the next day. We are talking about
:55:53. > :55:54.
:55:54. > :55:59.people who go into a property, then print out a notice from a website
:56:00. > :56:03.saying they cannot be moved. So why was the Law Society, the Criminal
:56:03. > :56:07.Bar and the Metropolitan Police all against this new law because they
:56:07. > :56:12.said the existing dress passing laws were adequate? The existing
:56:12. > :56:15.laws were inadequate. A lady died in my constituency and her daughter
:56:15. > :56:20.and son were going through the probate process. What they were
:56:20. > :56:25.doing that, trying to sell the property, squatters moved in. It
:56:25. > :56:28.took them 13 years -- 13 weeks and �10,000 to kick out squatters. They
:56:28. > :56:31.were not highlighting homeless issues or empty property issues,
:56:31. > :56:39.they just wanted somewhere to live for free as long as they could.
:56:39. > :56:45.That is what we had to stop. Luckhurst, is this a sledgehammer
:56:45. > :56:49.to crack and not? Mike's case there, you would have sympathy with that,
:56:49. > :56:55.but a lot of other people can get caught up in this. Festival, I
:56:55. > :56:59.would like to say it is astonishing -- a first of all, I think it is
:56:59. > :57:07.astonishing that someone could be literally stoned at university and
:57:07. > :57:11.that his terrible. Abolishing the rights for squatting is a criminal
:57:11. > :57:16.no-brainer, it is not a policy from one side or another one side or
:57:16. > :57:20.another. It is about saying if you own a house, people cannot steal it
:57:20. > :57:23.from you simply buy it occupied it. All of us would support that.
:57:23. > :57:26.Homelessness is an entirely separate issue. We have to look
:57:26. > :57:31.after the homeless and be a compassionate society. We have laws
:57:32. > :57:34.in place to do that. We have laws in place which place obligations
:57:34. > :57:39.upon local authorities to house people who are homeless and we
:57:39. > :57:44.should encourage people to seek their help and not squat. Isn't the
:57:44. > :57:47.problem of squatters quite small compared to the people that need a
:57:47. > :57:50.home and empty properties that should be used? There is a big
:57:50. > :57:55.issue here and I wish that Mike Weatherby would be a bit more
:57:55. > :57:59.upbeat about the challenges we have got about the on homelessness. The
:57:59. > :58:04.government is looking at abolishing housing benefit for under 25. Where
:58:04. > :58:11.others people going to go? At the moment they have made it the case
:58:11. > :58:15.that anyone up to the age of 35, you are not entitled to a flat, you
:58:15. > :58:19.are entitled to a single room. There is no question, everyone
:58:19. > :58:23.believes that homelessness will go up and you'll get a witless young
:58:23. > :58:32.people who will turn to squatting. But he will get young people who
:58:32. > :58:36.have no roots. Let's give the last word to market -- Mike Weatherley.
:58:36. > :58:44.We should do much -- mortar but enter properties back into use, and
:58:44. > :58:48.absolutely, the government has put a lot of money into homeless
:58:48. > :58:51.initiatives. The break must be made between homeless people and
:58:51. > :58:56.squatters. Squatters are trying to get something from nothing whereas
:58:56. > :59:01.aromas people need to be looked after, absolutely. -- homeless
:59:01. > :59:11.people. Now let's have a look at the round-
:59:11. > :59:12.
:59:12. > :59:17.up of the 60 seconds political week. The mayor of London Boris Johnson
:59:17. > :59:21.told business leaders that building a new forum way hub airport in the
:59:21. > :59:24.Thames estuary was the only way for the UK to compete on the world
:59:24. > :59:30.stage. But the boss of budget airline Ryanair dismissed the
:59:30. > :59:40.scheme as. It seemed, stupid, hare- brained. Sally burka, the wife of
:59:40. > :59:41.
:59:41. > :59:43.the Collins -- Commons Speaker, suspended her but account. She
:59:43. > :59:46.caused controversy. A Christian counsellor in Brighton is
:59:46. > :59:50.consulting lawyers of the losing and its appeal against expulsion
:59:50. > :59:56.from the Green group. He was suspended in September after voting
:59:56. > :00:02.against plans to lift the ban on same-sex marriage. And while the
:00:02. > :00:08.south-east MEP Nigel for Russia might be no fan of the colleagues
:00:08. > :00:15.in his European Parliament, the fan -- it is mutual. We are paying a
:00:15. > :00:21.salary to Nigel Farage, that is the biggest waste of money.
:00:21. > :00:27.I think he took out quite well. Let's talk about Twitter. You are
:00:27. > :00:33.on their a lot, and so are you, we are all the publishers, and Sally
:00:33. > :00:38.because it was caught out, she is not the anyone. She was very silly
:00:38. > :00:41.but she has also advertised an important issue, people who use
:00:41. > :00:45.Twitter and other social networking sites need to realise they are
:00:45. > :00:48.publishing, that there are laws governing what they can publish,
:00:48. > :00:51.published -- journalists have known about them for hundreds of years.
:00:51. > :00:55.The rest of the population now need to understand that if they publish
:00:55. > :01:00.something they have to take responsibility for their actions.
:01:00. > :01:05.You are a former journalist, so you are probably quite careful with
:01:05. > :01:11.what you put on Twitter. I think she was a twit! You have to be
:01:11. > :01:15.careful, there are restrictions on all mediums and you have to
:01:15. > :01:19.apologise. If you make mistakes. What did you think of the
:01:19. > :01:24.comeuppance of Nigel Farage? There is a great line -- it is a lot --
:01:24. > :01:29.great line but there is a lot of money that can be saved in the
:01:29. > :01:34.European Union which is a lot more that Nigel Farage is paid per.
:01:34. > :01:38.big problems are still there for David Cameron and the other parties.
:01:39. > :01:41.The only thing I do not agree with Nigel Farage on his that I do not