:01:17. > :01:19.And in the South East: Kent's children at risk are
:01:20. > :01:29.considered safer than they were two years ago, but is an "adequate"
:01:30. > :01:30.
:01:30. > :39:51.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2301 seconds
:39:51. > :39:55.rating for social services by I am Natalie Graham and this is the
:39:55. > :39:57.Sunday Politics in the South East. Coming up later:
:39:57. > :40:01.As a parliamentary inquiry suggests all drugs should be decriminalised,
:40:01. > :40:08.we go to Brighton - the UK's drugs death capital - to get the views of
:40:08. > :40:12.those tackling substance abuse. Joining me in the studio today is
:40:12. > :40:14.an all female cast - our guests of the day are Amber Rudd, the
:40:14. > :40:18.Conservative MP for Hastings and Rye and the Labour Baroness Maggie
:40:18. > :40:21.Jones who lives in Hove. First, we have been warned that
:40:21. > :40:24.more than 100 jobs could be lost at Kent County Council as the
:40:25. > :40:27.authority tries to make a further �34 million worth of savings on top
:40:28. > :40:30.of the �60 million cuts it had already planned for next year.
:40:30. > :40:33.Brighton and Hove's ruling Green Party has already announced it
:40:33. > :40:37.wants to raise council tax to provide what it says are essential
:40:37. > :40:41.services in the coming year. So are local authorities being squeezed
:40:41. > :40:51.too hard by centrally imposed austerity measures? Amber Rudd,
:40:51. > :40:53.
:40:53. > :40:57.sounds like it. We have to spend less money in order to reduce the
:40:57. > :41:03.deficit. I think you will find most people agree with the starting
:41:04. > :41:08.position. We also have to protect children as well as we can, I am
:41:08. > :41:11.happy to see East Sussex County Council and managing to do that by
:41:12. > :41:15.applying the money they have too early intervention to make sure
:41:15. > :41:21.that children that get into trouble and not going to get into trouble
:41:21. > :41:26.as early on as they might have otherwise. We will talk about
:41:26. > :41:31.children services later. We do not know whether as a result of the
:41:31. > :41:34.cuts that service will still be judged good. I am confident of that
:41:34. > :41:39.because they have already been called outstanding. There one of
:41:39. > :41:42.the top and the here and I'm sure they will stay that way. The Green
:41:42. > :41:48.Party claim they need to increase council tax to provide essential
:41:48. > :41:54.services. We do not know that they might not be able to just become
:41:54. > :41:58.more efficient. There are too many demands on local councils to work
:41:58. > :42:02.through and implement further and further cuts. I do have some
:42:02. > :42:07.sympathy now with the Green Party in Brighton. They have already
:42:07. > :42:14.tried to hold the council tax down in previous years, but now what it
:42:14. > :42:17.has -- now it is at a point but they cannot. The electorate need
:42:17. > :42:21.protection up their front line services and of that is at stake
:42:21. > :42:25.than they have no choice. You're supporting the Green Party in
:42:25. > :42:29.raising the council tax? I have every sympathy with the situation
:42:29. > :42:33.they find themselves in. Local authorities the right the country
:42:33. > :42:38.have a disproportionate amount of the cuts but the Government are
:42:38. > :42:43.trying to make to save money. At the end of the day, at those
:42:43. > :42:50.services provided by local authorities, transport and social
:42:50. > :42:54.services, schools, all of those things really matter. The cost of
:42:54. > :42:59.living for people is so important and I think it is really
:42:59. > :43:07.irresponsible to put up council tax went Berwick Government is giving
:43:07. > :43:12.extra money to keep it level. they are cutting local authorities.
:43:12. > :43:22.There has been some good but -- has been some good news for Kent County
:43:22. > :43:23.
:43:23. > :43:26.Council this week. Inspectors have now rated Kent's Children's
:43:26. > :43:30.Services as "adequate" - that is the same as Brighton and Hove, but
:43:30. > :43:32.not as good as East Sussex where they are rated as "good". So how
:43:32. > :43:35.does Kent continue to improve its children's services, or will the
:43:35. > :43:38.planned budget cuts we have just discussed mean that "adequate" will
:43:38. > :43:41.have to do? Jenny Whittle, cabinet member for specialist children's
:43:41. > :43:49.services, joins me now. Ofsted say you have improved, but it has
:43:49. > :43:54.listed quite a few areas of concern. What are your priorities now?
:43:54. > :44:04.focus on the fact that we had reduced caseloads due adequate
:44:04. > :44:07.
:44:07. > :44:10.levels. But no child be found was seen to be unsafe. We need to pit
:44:10. > :44:14.investment into early intervention and reduce the need for bringing
:44:14. > :44:19.children into the care system which is highly expensive and not good
:44:19. > :44:23.for outcomes. There was quite a contrast -- there was quite a
:44:24. > :44:29.comprehensive list of criticisms. Ofsted mentioned that there were
:44:29. > :44:35.people -- children at risk not being seen by a social worker and
:44:35. > :44:41.the Sydney to focus more. Yes, there are people needing more
:44:41. > :44:46.attention. We need to keep them on our radar. Ofsted did raise a
:44:46. > :44:52.concern that perhaps we are pulling a week the rub too quickly. We want
:44:52. > :44:59.to make sure it that we are or providing support for as long it is
:44:59. > :45:02.needed. Given the size of Kent, we're at the second largest
:45:02. > :45:09.children's services department in the country, I am reassured by what
:45:10. > :45:14.I had. You have invested something like �10 million in order to get to
:45:14. > :45:24.adequate. And I presume you want to get it better. How will you do that
:45:24. > :45:29.with the budgets getting cut? of the additional investment has
:45:29. > :45:34.been spent getting us from crisis 0.2 years ago getting up to
:45:34. > :45:39.adequate and making sure children are safe. We have been overly
:45:39. > :45:42.reliant on agency social workers and now we're at adequate I am
:45:43. > :45:49.confident we will attract more a qualified social workers back to
:45:49. > :45:52.Kent, some of whom left a few years back. That way we will reduce the
:45:52. > :45:58.bell and provide a more permanent and stable work force for the
:45:58. > :46:03.children. That will reduce our costs overall. Or you have fewer
:46:03. > :46:10.people? What is happening to those temporary workers? But you have
:46:10. > :46:15.more social workers than you have had or fewer? We have a team of 400
:46:15. > :46:19.social workers, 50 of them are agency workers. If we can fill that
:46:19. > :46:22.with permanent staff that would reduce our bill. We can deliver the
:46:22. > :46:26.savings that we me through that. We will not reduce the number of
:46:26. > :46:29.social workers, we need them to support the children, as long as we
:46:29. > :46:35.have manageable caseloads for social workers we will keep
:46:35. > :46:39.children safe. That is our top rarity. I asked a similar question
:46:39. > :46:45.18 months ago on this programme, how long do you think it will take
:46:45. > :46:49.you to get a good or outstanding? said you before it would be a three
:46:49. > :46:56.you for your journey. The hardest point is going from Chris spied to
:46:56. > :47:04.adequate. We have invested a lot, we're halfway through the journey,
:47:04. > :47:08.and to increase remuneration we're competing effectively. We have put
:47:08. > :47:16.in place the basic measures needed. I am very hopeful over the next
:47:16. > :47:21.couple of years we will get up to good if not outstanding. It does
:47:22. > :47:30.have a particular problem, we have a lot more children are coming into
:47:30. > :47:35.the county. But the road is at the same level there. Yes, as the
:47:35. > :47:39.Monroe report reported, there are large numbers of children's homes
:47:39. > :47:44.around the coastal towns. Other local authorities are sending
:47:44. > :47:48.unattached young people to them. I have sympathy with Kent, it puts
:47:48. > :47:51.added pressure on their local services. It is something that
:47:51. > :47:56.needs to be dealt with. It makes more sense for children in
:47:56. > :47:59.children's homes to be near their friends and family. A lot of
:47:59. > :48:05.problems with gel its quotation have been because these places have
:48:05. > :48:09.a reputation were have - but for having Honourable young girls and
:48:09. > :48:16.then attract certain types. It is something the Government is to get
:48:16. > :48:20.a grip of. Local authorities cannot just dump their it and wanted cases
:48:21. > :48:27.to another local authority. It has gone on for many decades. I hope
:48:27. > :48:33.this Government will deal with it. It is important to get away from
:48:33. > :48:41.agency workers and that is important as part of the solution.
:48:41. > :48:44.You need to have good people working permanently. It is not
:48:44. > :48:49.necessarily an extra cost to a permanent workers, it does cost
:48:49. > :48:53.less. And sure that is but the reason you have had success.
:48:54. > :48:57.thing the Government have been guilty of it is not talking up
:48:57. > :49:02.social work and have to talk about what a valuable contribution they
:49:02. > :49:08.are making. It is an unsung role, no matter what you do you cannot
:49:08. > :49:14.get it right. To you agree with that? I think Michael Gove has been
:49:14. > :49:17.very prolific about the social work first programme. We're trying to
:49:17. > :49:23.reflect on how successful that has been in bringing in bright young
:49:23. > :49:26.graduates into social work. I think the media could help us out a lot
:49:26. > :49:30.as well because all we hear a bad stories about social workers. We
:49:30. > :49:34.would like to hear a lot more positive stories about her be keep
:49:34. > :49:40.children safe from harm. We need to promote the good work that is being
:49:40. > :49:47.done. There was a complaint made about Michael Gove this week that
:49:47. > :49:52.Michael Gove had no interest in gel predicted services at all. It was
:49:52. > :49:54.said he had radio silence. We need to move on.
:49:54. > :49:57.Now, Brighton still has the unfortunate title of the nation's
:49:57. > :50:00.drugs death capital - although the number of fatalities there as a
:50:00. > :50:03.result of substance abuse has been falling. A new report into legal
:50:03. > :50:06.highs by a cross party group of peers has recommended that all
:50:06. > :50:09.drugs should be decriminalised to make sure that users can identify
:50:09. > :50:19.exactly what goes into them. But is there a danger that such a policy
:50:19. > :50:24.
:50:24. > :50:29.could backfire? Lucinda Adam went Brighton is known for its youth
:50:29. > :50:34.culture, liberal attitudes and exciting nightlife. Under the
:50:34. > :50:39.surface lies the dark reality. Britain has the highest rate of
:50:39. > :50:43.drugs-related deaths in the country. 32 people died from drugs last year.
:50:43. > :50:53.That is one every 11 days. Now a legal highs or adding to the city's
:50:53. > :51:00.problems. 150 people a month were admitted to hospital due to them.
:51:00. > :51:03.The commission set up to investigate into them, has just
:51:03. > :51:08.said that they think it should be legalised and put behind the
:51:08. > :51:13.counter. It has been suggested before I'd be Green Party member
:51:13. > :51:19.for Brighton. And also for at their chief superintendent. People argue
:51:19. > :51:24.that it would make substances safer for users, and reduce crime. But
:51:24. > :51:28.there are concerns that decriminalising ecstasy, heroin,
:51:28. > :51:34.cannabis and others could make the problem worse here are not better.
:51:34. > :51:38.More people using more drugs are more combinations. This man runs
:51:38. > :51:42.the largest drug and alcohol treatment centre in the city.
:51:42. > :51:46.fundamentally disagree with that decriminalisation approach. I think
:51:46. > :51:50.it would give a respectability to drugs. It would give the green
:51:50. > :51:56.light for people who might otherwise not try drugs to try them.
:51:56. > :52:03.And I think that we would see a massive increase in drug use. They
:52:03. > :52:06.remain a lot of questions unanswered. At what point would
:52:06. > :52:16.Roxby equalised. Would be decriminalised them for 14-year-
:52:16. > :52:21.olds, 14-year-old in Brighton are using heroin and other drugs.
:52:21. > :52:26.trial of decriminalisation in the City would not be a first. Police
:52:26. > :52:33.tried turning a blind eye it took cannabis in Brixton in at 2001 and
:52:33. > :52:40.the truck was decreed it to Class C in 2004. Both moves were reversed
:52:40. > :52:45.after a rise in addiction. Graham Cox has become a Conservative
:52:45. > :52:51.councillor in Brighton. Decriminalisation is a huge risk. I
:52:51. > :52:58.have not seen compelling evidence that making drugs legal, that is
:52:58. > :53:02.what it is, but that would lead to dress -- less drug use. The point
:53:02. > :53:07.about it being a legal is that because it is a legal it is the
:53:07. > :53:13.only way to compel people to get treatment. If it is not a legal do
:53:13. > :53:18.cannot compel people that are rejected into treatment. The city
:53:18. > :53:23.already has projects that help heroin Addicks use methadone in a
:53:23. > :53:28.safe environment. David Cameron favours treatments that get people
:53:28. > :53:33.off drugs. This is one of the trial areas where it Addicks are kept in
:53:33. > :53:38.intensive support. People here who have struggled with drug abuse say
:53:38. > :53:42.decriminalisation would not be a good move. I do not see it working,
:53:42. > :53:47.all the people I knew who took a lot of drugs we just take more
:53:47. > :53:54.because they were easily available. If we legalised heroin or crack I
:53:54. > :54:00.think no matter what drug users would continue and be affected.
:54:00. > :54:05.Their use will increase. Addiction would become worse. People who have
:54:05. > :54:13.done a lot of cannabis and cocaine and heroin, anything like that, a
:54:13. > :54:18.lot of them have ended up in hospitals. It is al ready been easy
:54:18. > :54:23.to get. It is not difficult at all. Something has to be done to tackle
:54:23. > :54:27.the drug problem that priests -- that plagues Brighton and Hove. But
:54:27. > :54:30.would decriminalisation be too much of a risk to take.
:54:30. > :54:32.Lucinda Adam reporting. Joining us from our Westminster studio is
:54:32. > :54:35.Baroness Meacher, Chair of the all Party Parliamentary Group which
:54:35. > :54:37.recommended that drugs should be decriminalised. We have just heard
:54:37. > :54:47.lots of arguments against decriminalisation. Why exactly did
:54:47. > :54:52.
:54:52. > :54:56.I certainly will. What we are are suggesting is that
:54:56. > :55:02.decriminalisation a position and wrists -- and use but not supplied.
:55:02. > :55:09.We're not suggesting legalising drugs. 15 European countries have
:55:09. > :55:15.been steady at and a report from that shows absolutely clearly that
:55:15. > :55:19.the probability of a used in the previous month is reduced by 79% in
:55:19. > :55:24.those countries that have decriminalised the possession and
:55:24. > :55:31.use of drugs. The fact is, tough legal penalties, it is strange but
:55:31. > :55:36.true, lead to greater use of drugs and in particular, of hard drugs.
:55:36. > :55:39.What happens is, some young person goes for a little bit of weed and
:55:39. > :55:44.the drug dealer says they have something more exciting for them.
:55:44. > :55:48.Before they know what they have bought heroin or cocaine. In a
:55:48. > :55:52.decriminalise country like Portugal, the use of drugs and the abuse of
:55:52. > :55:57.drugs is seen as a psychological problem. This is not something that
:55:57. > :56:02.young people Bragg about. They do not want to be seen as someone with
:56:02. > :56:07.the psychological problem. If you tried those problems into at deep
:56:07. > :56:11.understanding of how young people work and how mental processes work
:56:11. > :56:15.you begin to make some progress. What has happened in Portugal is
:56:15. > :56:21.that money has been switched from prison places to treatment and it
:56:21. > :56:25.is not as soft option. Young people are required if they are addicted
:56:25. > :56:30.to go for treatment. It is like alcohol consumption on the
:56:30. > :56:36.Continent. Things that work at what do not necessarily work here. That
:56:36. > :56:43.experiment in Brixton did not work at all, in fact it failed. Can I
:56:43. > :56:48.put that right? When cannabis was put down to class C, the trend in
:56:48. > :56:56.cannabis use was already going down and it continued to go down well
:56:56. > :57:00.cannabis was placed at Class C. For some absolutely bizarre reason the
:57:00. > :57:04.Home Secretary of the time panicked and said I think we will put it
:57:04. > :57:09.back up to Class B, that Home Secretary has recently said it was
:57:09. > :57:14.a mistake and she very much regrets it. The fact of the matter is,
:57:14. > :57:18.lower legal penalties or better still, administrative penalties,
:57:18. > :57:24.we're not talking about selling these things in shops or on the
:57:24. > :57:27.high street or anything like that, the fact is, decriminalisation of
:57:27. > :57:34.use and focusing on treatment and focusing on it as a psychological
:57:34. > :57:38.problem, it is it is a health problem, does reduce use of drugs.
:57:38. > :57:42.One last question. David Cameron made it clear that he will not
:57:42. > :57:48.entertain discussion of your suggestions. But you think it is so
:57:48. > :57:50.politically unpalatable? I think there has been a lot of
:57:50. > :57:54.misunderstanding and media confusion and hype about the
:57:54. > :57:58.subject which has been very unhelpful. I have been very
:57:58. > :58:03.encouraged this week by the media coverage of this subject. There
:58:03. > :58:08.seems to have been a lot of good factual material going out into the
:58:08. > :58:12.media. In time, we know privately all the politicians in all the
:58:12. > :58:16.different parties agree with us, that these take a realisations
:58:16. > :58:21.would be a good idea. Regulation of the least harmful drugs would be a
:58:21. > :58:29.good idea. They'll all say that privately but at the moment there
:58:30. > :58:34.are not ready to do it. I'd be very much for joining us. David Cameron
:58:34. > :58:39.said that he agreed on the home affairs committee but now he will
:58:39. > :58:43.not suggest it, things changed. cannot comment about what he said
:58:43. > :58:48.in 2002, what I can say is that I disagreed with everything we just
:58:48. > :58:55.heard. It is not true that politicians are saying one thing in
:58:55. > :58:58.private and another in public. sure there are a lot of things
:58:59. > :59:03.politicians say in private they do not in public. Politicians are not
:59:03. > :59:10.going around saying that we must decriminalised but not saying it in
:59:10. > :59:14.public. Many politicians agree entirely West the man who said that
:59:14. > :59:19.if we decriminalise we encourage it and drugs ruin lives and families.
:59:19. > :59:24.I think to send out the wrong signal and a life easier access,
:59:24. > :59:29.which all the people in Britain are saying, would be completely wrong.
:59:29. > :59:33.She sounded incredibly reasonable though. I think what she was saying
:59:33. > :59:37.about getting to young people was the key issue. We have to bring
:59:37. > :59:42.about the education aspect of it. To educate at an early age about
:59:42. > :59:48.the damage that drugs can do. I do not think this Government is put in
:59:48. > :59:53.enough time and effort into teaching children about social and
:59:53. > :59:58.health issues. They're only dealing with the academic subjects. The
:59:58. > :00:02.Health and well-being of children is an important issue. We will have
:00:02. > :00:12.more from both of her guests and a moment but it is already time for
:00:12. > :00:21.
:00:21. > :00:26.our round-up of the week's Bailiffs came in to arrest
:00:26. > :00:32.protesters. If we had ten people digging it their own tunnels we
:00:32. > :00:38.could have turned it around. Police and Crime Commissioner says that
:00:38. > :00:43.her plan for or extra staff will cost the council tax payer less
:00:43. > :00:48.than a penny at the. Campaigners working to reverse the
:00:48. > :00:51.decision at Hastings hospital met with Jeremy Hunt to call for a
:00:51. > :00:56.Government review. Drivers will have to slow down in
:00:56. > :01:00.Brighton and Hove. A 20 mile an hour zones beat Len it was agreed
:01:00. > :01:06.for or central roads. People are more likely to walk and people are
:01:06. > :01:08.more likely to survive a collision. A but no slowing down for the
:01:08. > :01:11.tourism trade. Despite the recession and the
:01:11. > :01:21.unpredictable weather it has enjoyed a boom for the last two
:01:21. > :01:23.
:01:23. > :01:27.The campaigners had been affected is that the last we will hear from
:01:27. > :01:31.them? I certainly hope so, it is their right to protest but it is
:01:31. > :01:35.our right to build that road. It is going to be good for the area and I
:01:35. > :01:40.am glad it is going ahead. A lot of coverage the what especially of the
:01:40. > :01:44.women taking part in protest. It has been interesting, hasn't it?
:01:44. > :01:51.Yes, I do not know why so many women were in the protest but women
:01:51. > :01:56.do like to be outspoken, look at us today. Talking about roads, Maggie
:01:56. > :02:03.Jones, it has been controversial, but hard to argue with the Green
:02:03. > :02:07.Party on this one, isn't it? Yes, it and it is back -- and it is
:02:07. > :02:12.exactly what the Labour Party discussed years ago. We do need a
:02:12. > :02:16.more sensible speed limit. On the a Rhodes b do need to be more sense
:02:16. > :02:21.to do it. I know that some people on buses are or worried about it.
:02:21. > :02:26.We need to have another look at it but certainly in residential areas.
:02:26. > :02:29.A Jew like to see more in Hastings? Yes, I think it is very good,
:02:29. > :02:33.anything that makes it safer it is good.