:01:15. > :01:18.And in the South East - as elected Police Commissioners submit their
:01:18. > :01:28.first annual budgets, we talk to two of them to find out what lies
:01:28. > :01:29.
:01:29. > :39:37.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2288 seconds
:39:37. > :39:41.in store for policing in Kent and I'm Julia George and this is the
:39:41. > :39:44.Sunday Politics in the South East. Coming up later. High mortgages and
:39:44. > :39:49.rents in Brighton and Crawley could stop economic growth, says a new
:39:49. > :39:52.report. So what can be done to make housing more affordable?
:39:52. > :39:55.Joining me in the studio today to discuss this among other topics is
:39:55. > :40:04.- by sheer coincidence - Brighton Pavilion Green Party MP Caroline
:40:04. > :40:07.Lucas and Conservative MP for Crawley Henry Smith. Welcome. Let's
:40:07. > :40:10.start with the promise from the Prime Minister.
:40:10. > :40:13.The Prime Minister has promised a referendum on Europe if his party
:40:13. > :40:15.gets elected in 2015. In response, Conservative Kent County Councillor
:40:15. > :40:22.Adrian Crowther has defected to UKIP, saying David Cameron s is
:40:22. > :40:30.'dithering' and should have held the referendum this year instead.
:40:30. > :40:34.This is interesting, about a year- and-a-half ago Choral, you looked
:40:34. > :40:37.far referendum, you said you wanted to see a radical reform of the way
:40:38. > :40:44.Europe operates. You and David Cameron singing from the same hymn
:40:44. > :40:52.sheet, are you a secret Tory or is he a secret dream?! Neither of the
:40:52. > :40:56.above! I am a pro-democracy, I am not against the European Union. I
:40:56. > :41:01.would strongly argue that we stay in the European Union. David
:41:01. > :41:07.Cameron has been pretty cowardly by saying a referendum, but not for
:41:07. > :41:11.five years. That tries to blackmail people that want a referendum time
:41:11. > :41:18.round, which has not worked, because of the Kent councillor
:41:18. > :41:21.defecting. It is a demonstration are putting party interest ahead of
:41:21. > :41:27.the national interest. It is not in the national interest to have five
:41:27. > :41:32.more years of uncertainty. Business wants policies certain seat. If
:41:32. > :41:38.there is going to be a referendum, I would like that it was now.
:41:38. > :41:44.you have argued for closer integration in Europe, where are
:41:44. > :41:48.your Europe this week? I have never argued for integration, I was
:41:48. > :41:56.always in favour of a referendum on membership of the European Union.
:41:56. > :42:00.That is the position I have held my entire political career. I welcome
:42:00. > :42:06.the referendum announcement by David Cameron. I would like to have
:42:06. > :42:12.a referendum as soon as possible. We have a coalition government
:42:12. > :42:16.against a referendum, so it is not possible. They were against it at
:42:16. > :42:21.things that your party has bulldozed them harm. Nick Clegg has
:42:21. > :42:26.come out clearly and said that he does not support the idea of a
:42:26. > :42:30.referendum in this Parliament. Prime Minister now as if he had a
:42:30. > :42:34.referendum now, this country would vote to go out and that is not what
:42:34. > :42:38.the Prime Minister wants. What he wants to achieve, and they think
:42:38. > :42:44.this is right, he wants to renegotiate the way that Europe
:42:44. > :42:47.works. That may be possible, that may not be possible. It would be
:42:47. > :42:52.beneficial may be a for this country, but beneficial for the
:42:52. > :43:00.other countries as well. But he has not successful in renegotiating a
:43:00. > :43:02.deal, but I will vote to leave. you very much.
:43:02. > :43:05.Later this week, our recently elected Police Commissioners in
:43:05. > :43:08.Kent, Surrey and East Sussex will be finalising their first budgets -
:43:08. > :43:11.only two and a half months after taking up their posts. More visible
:43:11. > :43:13.policing is high on all agendas, but how will the Commissioners pay
:43:13. > :43:21.for it? Lucinda Adam went to find out.
:43:21. > :43:25.And work with other services. is the first judgment day for our
:43:25. > :43:30.new commissioners. At will act with integrity and diligence. They have
:43:30. > :43:34.laid out plans on changing policing in the south-east in the next four
:43:34. > :43:40.years and how they plan to pay for it. Have they lived up to their
:43:41. > :43:44.election promises? The biggest decision as they face budget cuts
:43:44. > :43:49.of �50 million for each police force over four years is how much
:43:49. > :43:54.they asked the council tax payer to pay towards local police saying?
:43:54. > :43:57.Katie board has frozen the contribution. She will get a
:43:57. > :44:03.government grant for doing so which she we used to recruit more or
:44:03. > :44:08.unpaid special constables. This commissioner has not released his
:44:08. > :44:13.plan yet it is consulting residents upon until the deadline. He has
:44:13. > :44:18.indicated that he faces an increase to be is the Budget. In Kent, they
:44:18. > :44:26.want 80 % rise in attacks that the, just over 5p per week per average
:44:26. > :44:31.household. That will be 20 constables, 60 police dignity
:44:31. > :44:36.support officers and 18 custody staff cut. But we are more officers
:44:36. > :44:42.deliver the best results? That is the major question. It is what
:44:42. > :44:47.everybody says that they want we knew ask them. People say that they
:44:47. > :44:52.want more police on the beach, more visible police. A lot of police
:44:52. > :45:02.saying professionals will say that simply having officers is a bull is
:45:02. > :45:02.
:45:03. > :45:07.not necessarily the most efficient use of the policing resource. Anne
:45:07. > :45:13.Barnes once will were policing stations, a new crime Commissioner
:45:13. > :45:17.it was beg the Baltic ology and fogeys and victims. David Cooper
:45:17. > :45:21.was a police officer before becoming a commissioner in Kent. He
:45:21. > :45:25.has been set up as the self- appointed shadow Police
:45:25. > :45:31.Commissioner. He says the plan was too much rhetoric and not enough
:45:31. > :45:37.coherent policy. This is a disappointing document. It has been
:45:37. > :45:41.rushed and no research has been done. It has not been made it
:45:41. > :45:46.worthwhile document. The plan for a Sussex promises working with
:45:46. > :45:51.partner organisations and community engagement. But panel set up to
:45:51. > :45:54.scrutinise the decision has voted it through. There is criticism that
:45:55. > :46:01.the plan is too short and a fake and she has not given up figures
:46:01. > :46:05.for crime reduction or how she will deliver constables. And he Smith
:46:05. > :46:13.voted against approving it. Clear lead the plan was not fit for
:46:13. > :46:19.purpose. I expected clear targets. But they were completely absent.
:46:19. > :46:23.What was missing that you were looking for? She had promised
:46:23. > :46:30.special constables in every village and there has been no reference to
:46:30. > :46:33.a special constable. Other than a brief line in the budget of
:46:33. > :46:41.�154,000 for special constables. It is a blank cheque for the
:46:41. > :46:46.commissioner. Vicky targets have still got to be completed. The plan
:46:46. > :46:51.is not in any position to say she has failed. Regardless of how she
:46:51. > :46:55.performs, which is a ridiculous position for the panel to be in.
:46:56. > :47:04.November election make it would always be a tight timetable to
:47:04. > :47:10.produce the plans. The documents do not look finished. The Kent one was
:47:10. > :47:15.very thorough but unstructured. The Sussex one seems very limited in
:47:15. > :47:21.terms of specifics details on how things will progress. Very mixed
:47:21. > :47:24.documents. It is the first real test of politics in policing. Block
:47:24. > :47:29.the promises were made in the election. Now the commissioners are
:47:29. > :47:37.in the role, can they turn it into reality?
:47:37. > :47:43.Let's speak to the Sussex Police Commissioner. Let's start with
:47:43. > :47:47.promises, one of your key pledges in your manifesto was putting an
:47:47. > :47:54.extra constable, a special constable for every village, by
:47:54. > :47:59.your calculations, about 144 extra, but you have only put aside
:47:59. > :48:06.�154,000, how many can you create this year? We begin recruitment
:48:06. > :48:13.this April. We start recruitment for 120 in addition to the 300 that
:48:13. > :48:18.the police already have. The 154,000 referred to will cover this.
:48:18. > :48:21.This includes the �1,000 per constable, to train them. A lot of
:48:21. > :48:26.the training is done in-house and it includes a refund for the
:48:26. > :48:32.current specials on a Bear Band D policing precept which was another
:48:32. > :48:38.manifesto pledge. Councillor Smith was very disingenuous with what he
:48:38. > :48:41.said. What the panel were asked to look at was a draft priority plan.
:48:41. > :48:47.Before we mood of that subject, are you sure you have got the figures
:48:47. > :48:55.correct. It cost several �1,000 to recruit and train, he does that
:48:55. > :48:59.look like these are figures stack up. We start recruiting 120 this
:48:59. > :49:05.year and �112,000 begins the recruitment for the Specials. The
:49:05. > :49:10.remainder of the money well refunds at �138 per constable. When you say
:49:10. > :49:16.you're beginning recruitment, how many extra or will there be at the
:49:16. > :49:23.end of the year? There would be an extra 120 specials. That is what
:49:23. > :49:29.we're doing this year. That will take it up to 420, almost 430,
:49:29. > :49:34.roughly equivalent to a rural village across a sex. When it
:49:34. > :49:40.increased the police precept, we're asking has those to pay 5p extracts
:49:40. > :49:43.from iron bars, you would have a lot further to go if you hadn't
:49:43. > :49:51.told the Conservative party line had done something a bit braver
:49:51. > :49:55.with finances. Are disagreed. Time is very important. Sussex residents
:49:55. > :50:00.be to keep as much money in their pockets as possible. I was elected
:50:01. > :50:06.on a pledge to freeze the precept and that is what I have done. The
:50:06. > :50:09.Medium Term Financial Plan that has been modelled at the time, it
:50:10. > :50:13.allows for this freeze in the precept, so Councillor Smith was
:50:13. > :50:18.part of that police are authority and fully aware of the plan that
:50:18. > :50:26.has been put in place and could see how this would be deliver it.
:50:26. > :50:32.you. Batters the set 6 commissioner, now
:50:32. > :50:36.we have the Kent commissionaire, nice to have you here. You have
:50:36. > :50:40.asked the people to pay a bit well for their police force, you
:50:40. > :50:44.promised an extra 20 constables and 16 Police Committee support
:50:44. > :50:48.officers, but it is not that much of a dent into the hundreds of
:50:48. > :50:54.serving officers that will be lost. We were paid more or fewer officers,
:50:54. > :51:00.not sounding like any for money? is value-for-money because for the
:51:00. > :51:04.first time we are investing in the service in Kent. There has been no
:51:04. > :51:09.investment for a number of years. The one thing that people want is
:51:09. > :51:15.more visible community policing. I am asking people to pay a modest
:51:15. > :51:20.amount and it is not an awful lot. I did not to its likely big as to
:51:20. > :51:26.be honest, every penny does count these days. It is a decision I hope
:51:26. > :51:30.to take. Peter Squires suggested your budget was on structured, Will
:51:30. > :51:35.you be a bit more focused on exactly what you can achieve in
:51:35. > :51:41.your first year? Bedroom at it is unstructured I think it is a very
:51:41. > :51:46.good paper.... I do not think it is a structured. Thanks to the scene
:51:46. > :51:52.November elections, the time we had to get these budgets at has been
:51:52. > :51:56.really hard. We have done it ended is very structured. Every single
:51:56. > :52:01.one of them is in varied every single one of will be achieved by
:52:01. > :52:05.the end of the year! He made much of falling crime figures we were
:52:05. > :52:09.campaigning, because you with a chair of the Police Authority
:52:09. > :52:16.Accounts, and a new study this week suggests that the fall has been
:52:16. > :52:19.exaggerated. Officers were urged not to record low-level crime. We
:52:19. > :52:28.look for more accurate recording even if it doesn't make you look
:52:28. > :52:33.that good? I am pleased that it is falling. It is good news. It is
:52:33. > :52:39.real. We have an internal investigation at the moment which I
:52:39. > :52:43.cannot talk about. I am comfortable at the feet his encounter accurate.
:52:43. > :52:48.They are you happy to continue with all of the money spent on policing
:52:48. > :52:52.animal exports in Ramsgate, Abu urge the curbing of the protest and
:52:52. > :53:01.get the exporters to make a contribution? It is a joke of the
:53:01. > :53:04.money, isn't it? Yes, it is a perfect legal trade debt they have
:53:04. > :53:08.the right the police have to make sure that there is public or drugs
:53:08. > :53:12.everyone is safe. It is unfortunate that it is coming through Ramsgate
:53:12. > :53:22.port in Kent and Kent taxpayers pick up the Bill.
:53:22. > :53:25.A Thank you. Back to the guests, Henry Smith, there was the
:53:25. > :53:30.significant point about the timing of the elections, the unstructured
:53:30. > :53:34.and unfocused police budgets, are they not a payback for holding
:53:34. > :53:39.elections in November and looking for budgets really quickly? I do
:53:39. > :53:43.not think the budgets, the ones I have seen, the Sussex one that I
:53:43. > :53:47.have seen, at Kent and Surrey, I do not think they are unstructured.
:53:47. > :53:55.They had been put together in a short period of time, but they are
:53:55. > :53:59.quite robust. Especially for Sussex. How come she has to go back to the
:53:59. > :54:02.drawing board if it is robust and produce an entirely new document
:54:02. > :54:09.from our because of the criticism levelled at it for not having
:54:09. > :54:17.detail? I disagree. I think the Sussex budget has been robust and
:54:17. > :54:23.his detailed. She is delivering a a manifesto pledge of freezing 0 the
:54:23. > :54:29.precept on council-tax four or the Sussex Police contribution. That is
:54:29. > :54:32.an achievement and also introducing the 120 extra special constables is
:54:32. > :54:35.something that she is working towards in the manifesto pledge and
:54:35. > :54:41.we are now beginning to see the value of direct democracy in
:54:41. > :54:45.policing. Caroline Lucas? Are these people do we to make any
:54:45. > :54:49.difference? Is it is too soon to say it's a well and if it is a
:54:49. > :54:53.positive or negative to Athens. The Green Party said we did not want to
:54:53. > :54:58.see the politicisation of the police force. It is great that she
:54:58. > :55:04.won as an independent, but they do not get the cinema to body to run
:55:04. > :55:09.their campaign. That would be the same a matter of money to run their
:55:09. > :55:14.campaign. I think the image of time they had to prepare the budget was
:55:14. > :55:19.too small. The idea to say the Sussex budget was robust is a joke.
:55:19. > :55:24.It is little more than a few sizes of their for paper. There is not
:55:24. > :55:28.the detail their if you're serious about bridging the gap in Sussex.
:55:28. > :55:33.We have lost 500 officers added murderer due would give 50 staff to
:55:33. > :55:38.go also. -- and another two would have 50 staff.
:55:38. > :55:48.Brightening crawl Lee in the top 10 mystics best of places Direct and
:55:48. > :55:50.
:55:50. > :55:54.mortgages. Brighton and Crawley are in the top
:55:54. > :55:57.ten most expensive places for rents and mortgages in the country says a
:55:57. > :55:59.new report - and this could halt economic growth in both areas. The
:55:59. > :56:03.Centre for Cities think-tank, publishers of the findings says,
:56:03. > :56:06.the best solution is to build lots of new homes as quickly as possible.
:56:06. > :56:13.We're lucky to have MPs from both Brighton and Crawley as our guests
:56:13. > :56:18.of the day - what do you make of this report? In Brighton we do have
:56:18. > :56:22.more people being employed, we have the fast as level of start-ups for
:56:22. > :56:25.small businesses, said there is a thriving economy, but you're right
:56:25. > :56:30.and the report is right to say there is a real problem with
:56:30. > :56:34.affordable housing. There is an interesting angle on if the
:56:34. > :56:39.Government should focus money on wealthier areas or struggling areas,
:56:39. > :56:42.Henry do you agree that you need to build more housing in Crawley?
:56:42. > :56:47.and I commend the Council for starting to put space in the ground
:56:47. > :56:50.as we speak about building new houses. There is a new
:56:50. > :56:54.neighbourhood to the south-west of Crawley been built at the moment.
:56:54. > :57:02.There are advanced plans for a new neighbour at dinner North East
:57:02. > :57:06.sector of Crawley. That will deliver more affordable housing.
:57:06. > :57:13.Those new homes will be able to match the economic vibrancy that we
:57:13. > :57:19.see in Crawley. The other day, I am honoured by much dropped. --
:57:19. > :57:23.unemployment dropped. There has come back to Brightman. It is
:57:23. > :57:30.difficult for that reason, the council estate in a difficult
:57:30. > :57:35.decision, but it is difficult decision. All G7 Hector's a
:57:35. > :57:44.beautiful green field sites where there is an abundance of wildlife.
:57:44. > :57:50.-- 47 actors. People will be a surprise to hear a Green MP same
:57:50. > :57:54.build on a greenfield site! Wow and endorsing it, it is difficult, but
:57:54. > :58:00.it has been supported by environmental organisations at the
:58:00. > :58:03.bottom line is, if we do not good in that plan at the local council,
:58:03. > :58:09.a reasonable estimate of where we will get more housing from, Bennett
:58:09. > :58:13.will get overturned, so we need to find more housing. This land is
:58:13. > :58:18.privately a lewd and could get sold at any time but there could be many
:58:18. > :58:24.supermarkets at Ayr. If we put that in the plan and as we have, the
:58:24. > :58:29.vision for that area is for genuine, sustainable, affordable housing.
:58:29. > :58:32.Desert break your heart to add to endorse that? It is difficult but
:58:32. > :58:41.it breaks my heart when you walk down the street in Brighton and as
:58:41. > :58:46.the people sleeping under bridges and in shop fronts. We need to make
:58:46. > :58:49.difficult decisions but I am excited about this valley site,
:58:50. > :58:56.because there is real potential to make a genuinely sustainable
:58:56. > :58:59.community. Fantastic ideas on the council. On balance, that would be
:58:59. > :59:03.best for the people of Brighton and the economy and it means we can
:59:03. > :59:07.have control over what to Parliament goes there. Selling the
:59:07. > :59:14.idea to people that have a home in the constituency that they should
:59:14. > :59:20.have were building their, it is tough, Henry? People often do not
:59:20. > :59:23.want a new housing built around them. That is understandable. This
:59:23. > :59:27.is a new tattoo, virtually every one that lives here has been
:59:27. > :59:37.migrants from somewhere else, whether it be south London or
:59:37. > :59:37.
:59:37. > :59:42.elsewhere. Gig is whole! A minute to Crawley and eyelet in a new
:59:42. > :59:46.housing Crawley had was very grateful for that. We need to be
:59:46. > :59:50.careful before criticising new housing when it is needed, when
:59:50. > :59:56.most people in Crawley have at some stage in the not too distant past
:59:56. > :00:06.occupied a new house themselves. bran tub of the week's events there
:00:06. > :00:08.
:00:08. > :00:12.with our reporter is in 60 seconds. Not commercially viable and harmful
:00:12. > :00:19.to the environment, that is the damning conclusion of an
:00:19. > :00:22.independent survey into plans for an airport in North Kent. Former
:00:22. > :00:27.Gillingham MP Paul Clark wrote the report. It is not backed by British
:00:27. > :00:36.Airways or the Government or the mayor of London. Julian Brazier
:00:36. > :00:41.from Canterbury is called up the Children's Minister to make it
:00:41. > :00:45.easier for white couples to adopt multi-racial children.
:00:46. > :00:49.More places will be created in local schools.
:00:49. > :00:59.He has succeeded in outlying squatting, now wife Gwen Bailey
:00:59. > :01:05.
:01:05. > :01:10.Tracey Emin has hit out at plans to drop art from the GCSE curriculum
:01:10. > :01:16.at once there could be rights in the streets.
:01:16. > :01:20.-- riots in the streets! What do you think? They is a lot of strong
:01:20. > :01:24.feeling, whether it is enough to have rioting, I'm not sure. There
:01:24. > :01:34.is a feeling of not putting enough weight on the arts in the new
:01:34. > :01:35.
:01:35. > :01:41.curriculum. Reduce stand on art in schools? Are
:01:41. > :01:45.important? I it is of course important did nobody is suggesting
:01:45. > :01:51.that creativity will disappear from the curriculum, but we need to have
:01:51. > :01:59.a greater focus on some of the core subjects that actually mean there
:01:59. > :02:03.will be good quality jobs in the future. John is in Brighton at the
:02:03. > :02:08.creative industries. Despite the jobs at Brighton. We need to make
:02:08. > :02:12.sure that we invest in core subjects like technology and
:02:12. > :02:17.engineering arms chemistry and so forth. These are the backbone of