:01:30. > :01:40.�32 billion has been set aside for high-speed rail. Has the Government
:01:40. > :01:40.
:01:40. > :42:05.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2424 seconds
:42:05. > :42:14.loan to any lessons from Kent's Hello, I am Natalie Graham. Coming
:42:14. > :42:22.up later: Adriana resources or if it falls source of labour?
:42:22. > :42:29.-- and drain on resources. Joining me to date Gareth Johnson
:42:29. > :42:34.and Trudy Dean. First, Tunbridge Wells City Council is amongst the
:42:34. > :42:39.local of priorities which have been called democracy dodgers By Eric
:42:39. > :42:44.Pickles. They're planning to raise council tax without a local
:42:44. > :42:48.referendum. The Conservative leaders have written to the Prime
:42:48. > :42:52.Minister protesting at the negative comments being directed at hard-
:42:52. > :42:56.pressed local authorities by government ministers. Trudy Dean,
:42:56. > :43:04.you must have some sympathy with your opposite number in this
:43:04. > :43:09.situation. All free authorities are pushing in a legal budget. Eric
:43:09. > :43:15.Pickles is saying he wants to change the rules. What has shocked
:43:15. > :43:18.me about Mr Carter's letter is it was written with 30 other
:43:18. > :43:24.conservative leaders across the country and it pleads for a better
:43:24. > :43:30.councillors pensions and it pleads for the survival of the
:43:30. > :43:35.Conservative Party at the next election. He should be asking for a
:43:35. > :43:41.better welfare, benefits and the unfair council tax changes to be
:43:41. > :43:46.dumped. They will all be affecting the poorest people in society.
:43:46. > :43:52.Gareth Johnson, either way you look at it, you grassroots members, the
:43:52. > :43:56.people you will need at the next election are being given negative
:43:56. > :44:01.comments by a government minister. It will not look good. It is quite
:44:01. > :44:06.natural for any local authority to say they want more money. I think
:44:06. > :44:14.there is no excuse for any council not to freeze its council tax this
:44:14. > :44:18.year. Kent County Council has done that. I commend them for doing so.
:44:18. > :44:23.They have managed to do so without affecting frontline services which
:44:23. > :44:29.is vital as well. You are not concerned about the tone of
:44:29. > :44:32.language being used by Eric Pickles? I think it is perfectly
:44:32. > :44:36.understandable when local-authority leaders say, we need as much
:44:36. > :44:46.assistance as you can give to us a resort with the problem is that we
:44:46. > :44:47.
:44:47. > :44:53.have both got. The Government has announced plans for the North to
:44:53. > :44:58.South HS2. It will cost �32 billion but we are promised economic
:44:58. > :45:08.regeneration. Similar claims were made when HS1 was launched a decade
:45:08. > :45:15.
:45:16. > :45:22.The Government is going full steam ahead with plans for HS2. But has
:45:22. > :45:27.HS1 put the South East on the fast track to economic boom? It promised
:45:27. > :45:33.London to the -- in less than an hour. And economic regeneration
:45:33. > :45:39.with billions to the South East economy. So, have journey times
:45:39. > :45:44.reduced? It is 37 minutes from Ashford to reach London and the
:45:44. > :45:48.service is reliable. Although the new trains run from stations around
:45:48. > :45:55.the east Kent, mainly get faster when they joined the high-speed
:45:55. > :46:02.line. For commuters, St Pancras is not a convenient destination for
:46:02. > :46:05.working in the city. I have taken that journey and I got to my desk
:46:05. > :46:12.20 minutes after I would have done that if I had taken my regular
:46:12. > :46:20.service. John's MP promises the high-speed says -- says promises
:46:20. > :46:24.the high-speed line would join more lines has not been kept. This was
:46:24. > :46:32.done on the understanding that that behind east Kent would benefit, we
:46:32. > :46:38.have not got that benefit. The Kent Coast line is slower still to make
:46:38. > :46:43.way for the fast trains from Ashford. By that time domestic
:46:43. > :46:48.trains were added to Eurostar services four years ago, building
:46:48. > :46:53.the high-speed line had already gone 18% over budget. Passenger
:46:53. > :47:00.numbers were overestimated with less than a third of the predicted
:47:00. > :47:08.Eurostar travellers. As a result, it is taxpayers were picking up the
:47:08. > :47:14.cost. They are expected to reach �10.2 billion in 60 years. That is
:47:14. > :47:18.compared to an estimated value up on journeys savings of �6 million.
:47:19. > :47:26.South-east commuters have borne the brunt with increased fare ticket
:47:26. > :47:31.prices. As a commuter, we are taxpayers, we are also funding real
:47:31. > :47:37.trouble. We're being hit with high taxes, higher rail fares. It is not
:47:37. > :47:43.fair. There are no firm figures to show how many jobs have been
:47:43. > :47:48.created. But experts say lack of joined-up thinking means towns in
:47:48. > :47:54.Kent have not enjoyed the regeneration they were promised.
:47:54. > :47:59.New developments have yet to materialise. In Ashford, employment
:47:59. > :48:03.and house prices have risen slower than in neighbouring towns.
:48:03. > :48:09.problem with Ashford is you have the station and the railway which
:48:09. > :48:15.divide the town. It creates a bit of a waste land here. If you had
:48:15. > :48:19.development close and a rounded it would create a business environment.
:48:19. > :48:25.This Economist says the Government has not done enough to attract
:48:25. > :48:29.private investment to Kent. There are lessons to be learned, but it
:48:29. > :48:34.shows that you need to have some sort of additional planning
:48:34. > :48:39.development that goes around it. Just putting in a new rail line
:48:39. > :48:44.does not create development in itself. With HS2 connections from
:48:44. > :48:51.London to the north in place, would Kent's are a club get any better?
:48:51. > :48:55.lot would depend on whether HS1 is properly linked to HS2. How many
:48:55. > :49:02.services from the North of England would be allowed to go through,
:49:02. > :49:07.would they be economic revival? The original plan with HS1 was for
:49:07. > :49:10.services to run through to Manchester and Leeds. With
:49:10. > :49:15.questions over its value for money and economic benefits, shouldn't
:49:15. > :49:19.the Government sought out the problems of high speed one before
:49:19. > :49:25.spending �32 billion of taxpayers' money on a project that could go
:49:25. > :49:29.off the rails? Earlier I spoke to the transport
:49:29. > :49:37.minister and Norman Baker in his constituency about the claims made
:49:37. > :49:41.in that report. Do you agree that HS1 has not
:49:41. > :49:51.delivered all benefits week that were promised. It has been very
:49:51. > :49:52.
:49:52. > :49:56.good for Kent and the UK. A report suggested it created 100,000 jobs,
:49:56. > :50:02.and brought �20 billion of benefit to the UK plc. The National Audit
:50:02. > :50:07.Office last year had a different view of HS1. Financially it is
:50:08. > :50:13.predicted to be a disaster. �10 billion to the taxpayer in 60
:50:14. > :50:19.years' time. It is not in a disaster. The Eurostar has more and
:50:19. > :50:23.more passengers. We are seeing more destinations coming on line. The
:50:23. > :50:30.intention is to link through to Amsterdam and Frankfurt and
:50:30. > :50:34.portance cities such as that. With HS2, we will see trains going from
:50:34. > :50:37.places like M there right the way through to Frankfurt. Most people
:50:37. > :50:42.in the South East are worried about getting to London and doing their
:50:42. > :50:46.job. We heard the commuter who said it takes 20 minutes longer any goes
:50:46. > :50:51.to the wrong station. It is a worse service but they are paying more
:50:51. > :50:58.for a it. I have sympathy for people who feel they're being
:50:58. > :51:06.disadvantaged. We embarked upon, as a government, the largest rail
:51:06. > :51:16.improvements since the 19th century. There is a huge investment and I
:51:16. > :51:17.
:51:17. > :51:21.want to make sure everyone across the country benefits. As part of
:51:21. > :51:26.this multi-billion pound investment in the railways, could people have
:51:26. > :51:32.that extension they were promised all those years ago? I do not know
:51:32. > :51:36.who promised them or what point, but I'm not quite sure of a high-
:51:36. > :51:40.speed extension is likely to occur. It is important we do what we can
:51:40. > :51:46.to help people in the commuter areas around London to make sure
:51:46. > :51:52.the local train does not get worse, and of course in terms of fares.
:51:53. > :51:57.The Government is committed to ending the above-inflation
:51:57. > :52:03.increases. Of you see the impact of commuter fares is higher on my
:52:03. > :52:08.agenda. Many people feel they are paying higher fares, the taxpayer
:52:08. > :52:12.has been saddled with nearly �5 billion of debt because of HS1, and
:52:12. > :52:19.they're not getting any benefits. Slower trains now going where they
:52:19. > :52:25.want. The point I had just made you is there has been a significant
:52:25. > :52:28.increase in jobs and houses in the Kent area as a consequence of a HS1.
:52:28. > :52:34.The environment will downsize we were told about when HS1 was
:52:34. > :52:39.planned, they have not materialised. I remember seeing on the news it
:52:39. > :52:42.would destroy Kent countryside. We have heard no complaints about the
:52:42. > :52:47.environmental impact. Kent should be buoyant about the fact they have
:52:47. > :52:52.a high-speed line there, it is a showcase for the country. It has
:52:52. > :52:56.been good for Kent and good for the UK. There have been issues around
:52:56. > :53:01.the Kent line and we are not oblivious to them. When it comes to
:53:01. > :53:05.HS2, people will hear what you're saying about economic benefits to
:53:05. > :53:10.the north. These disgruntled people in the South East would argue they
:53:10. > :53:15.are not getting the benefits from HS1, might they feel -- might they
:53:15. > :53:21.not feel that HS2 will not do anything economic league for the
:53:21. > :53:24.South East of England? It will put Ashford in a position where the
:53:24. > :53:32.connections are simpler to the Continent and better connections
:53:32. > :53:40.north. There will be trains from Ashford for, say, Edinburgh. They
:53:40. > :53:45.will be part of a high-speed network, rather than a single line.
:53:45. > :53:49.Gareth Johnson, I will put the same point to you. Most people in north
:53:49. > :53:55.Kent are not seeing the benefits of HS1, but they have to pay more for
:53:55. > :54:01.it. I remember when HS1 was first envisaged, and we had the same
:54:01. > :54:11.argument then as we are having now with HS2. Most of the fears people
:54:11. > :54:11.
:54:11. > :54:15.had with HS1 have not materialised. I accept that there are some issues.
:54:15. > :54:20.Would you not rather see the Government's spending 32 billion on
:54:20. > :54:24.an extension to the HS1 and improve the whole network rather than
:54:24. > :54:28.putting one controversial line through the North? I can understand
:54:28. > :54:38.why people would want that. I would like to see CrossRail out of
:54:38. > :54:39.
:54:39. > :54:44.Dartford. But if you look at what has happened at HS1. Blue water
:54:44. > :54:48.came in part because of it. I accept there is down sides like
:54:48. > :54:55.parking and fares to use the service, but generally it has been
:54:55. > :55:01.a good thing for the area. Trudy Dean, where do you stand on this?
:55:01. > :55:06.You were in the west of the area. Have you seen any benefits? I have
:55:06. > :55:11.seen at a loss of domestic services on the Maidstone line. At the same
:55:11. > :55:16.time, we can go and pick up the high-speed rail line which reduces
:55:16. > :55:22.the time into London for just over an hour and a quarter down to 40
:55:22. > :55:27.minutes. There are some lessons to be learned in Kent, we need to look
:55:27. > :55:33.at a faster planning system. It looks 16 years to get HS1 into
:55:33. > :55:37.place, we do not want to see that replicated. We want to see higher
:55:37. > :55:43.compensation so people Laura affected can be sorted more quickly.
:55:43. > :55:47.Do you think there is anything that could have been done in retrospect
:55:47. > :55:52.to make sure that regeneration at Ashford could have happened? It is
:55:52. > :55:58.very difficult. We have to look set it in terms of the recession we are
:55:58. > :56:06.now in. In that location there is double the number of people using
:56:06. > :56:09.the high-speed line to get into London. We have all thought about
:56:10. > :56:19.economic development as attracting business into Kent, there's very
:56:20. > :56:20.
:56:20. > :56:25.little evidence of that. But it has expanded London's commuter-belt.
:56:25. > :56:28.Tens of thousands of Romanians and Bulgarians could come and settle in
:56:28. > :56:32.the South East when EU labour restrictions are lifted at the
:56:32. > :56:37.beginning of next year. The head of the Brighton Housing Trust has
:56:37. > :56:41.reportedly concerned about adding to the City's housing problems.
:56:41. > :56:46.Kent fruit farmers are worried they are going to lose their seasonal
:56:46. > :56:49.agricultural workers if the Romanian and Bulgarian workers they
:56:49. > :56:57.currently rely on decide to take better-paid long-term jobs
:56:57. > :57:02.elsewhere. Joining us is the Bulgarian ambassador. Hello, I
:57:02. > :57:05.wonder if you could answer a few questions for us. How many people
:57:05. > :57:15.from your country do you think would want to come to the UK that
:57:15. > :57:19.are not already here? This is very hard to predict. It is wrong to say
:57:19. > :57:29.that there will be an opening of the markets from a situation of
:57:29. > :57:35.four but then sectors, the year 2014 will see a limitation of the
:57:35. > :57:43.current restrictions to a fuller access. It is very wrong to suggest
:57:43. > :57:47.that people just out of the Pru will get away from its seasonal
:57:47. > :57:53.work to a more highly qualified job as if they could get a miraculous
:57:53. > :58:00.qualifications. Seasonal workers may continue to work the seasonal
:58:00. > :58:04.work. Hire qualified work make fill posts that you're economy needs.
:58:04. > :58:10.What you make of the idea that the British government will discourage
:58:10. > :58:16.people from your country to come here? This has been disproved by
:58:16. > :58:22.the acting ambassador for the UK. The ladies said Bulgarians and
:58:22. > :58:27.Romanians are welcome to work legally in the UK in accordance
:58:27. > :58:37.with the UK and European legislation before and after the
:58:37. > :58:39.
:58:39. > :58:44.first January, 20 fort team. -- 2014. Apparently the Romanians are
:58:44. > :58:49.fighting back with their own advert. Maybe you would like to tell us why
:58:49. > :58:54.people from your country would make good employees. Because this has
:58:54. > :59:00.been the situation since the start of the democratic changes in Europe.
:59:01. > :59:06.The Bulgarians at work like doctors, nurses and strawberry pickers. And
:59:06. > :59:12.social workers caring for the elderly and children in the UK.
:59:12. > :59:16.They are well integrated and have good speaking and linguistic skills.
:59:16. > :59:25.Indeed their numbers are very low and could not represent any threat
:59:25. > :59:28.to the labour market of the United Kingdom. Gareth Johnson, are you
:59:28. > :59:34.concerned about the term the Government is adopting about being
:59:34. > :59:39.so negative about encouraging workers to the UK? William Hague
:59:39. > :59:43.made it clear last week in the House of Commons. There is no
:59:43. > :59:51.intention of putting out videos in any way critical of Bulgaria or
:59:51. > :59:54.Romania. Or vice versa. We have got to understand that of course people
:59:54. > :59:59.are concerned we will have uncontrolled immigration coming
:59:59. > :00:04.into this country. The Government must look if there are steps we can
:00:04. > :00:09.take to mitigate any problems that may occur. There's also a danger we
:00:09. > :00:14.could over react to this situation. In Ireland and France they lifted
:00:14. > :00:17.their restrictions completely and have had no difficulties whatsoever.
:00:17. > :00:24.They have not had the numbers coming into those countries they
:00:24. > :00:29.were concerned about. Trudy Dean, I mentioned in the beginning a lot of
:00:29. > :00:34.farmers are concerned about this seasonal agricultural workers they
:00:34. > :00:39.rely on going for better-paid jobs, perhaps in care homes are in the
:00:39. > :00:44.city. Is that something to worry about? I think it is fairly
:00:44. > :00:50.unlikely. People who come over, usually come over for part of the
:00:50. > :00:55.year and then go back again. I do think Gareth is right, we do need
:00:55. > :01:01.to be concerned. The ambassador is correct, we do need skilled workers
:01:01. > :01:05.to keep our services running, but when we are looking at the
:01:05. > :01:11.situation in the UK we have a recession. A lot of people are
:01:11. > :01:20.unemployed and clearly we are going to be concerned. No-one is
:01:20. > :01:26.collecting reliable data. We do not have figures on any of this. We
:01:26. > :01:29.have to get that data before we can have a sensible conversation.
:01:29. > :01:34.Government does not want to do at the last government did and
:01:34. > :01:39.underestimate the number of migrant workers. That is right. We had to
:01:39. > :01:47.work very hard reducing the number of people coming to this country.
:01:48. > :01:57.More needs to be done. It is time for a round-up of the week's
:01:57. > :02:02.political -- events. Kent County Council wants 44
:02:02. > :02:06.primary schools to take on extra pupils next year to me to a severe
:02:06. > :02:13.shortage of places. Parents say roads to village schools cannot
:02:13. > :02:21.cope. Over 50% occupancy will be from outside the area. You can only
:02:21. > :02:27.us in those people will drive. million a was spent on high a speed
:02:27. > :02:33.of gambling machines in Medway last year. They say they are saving
:02:33. > :02:40.taxpayers' money by not asking for council housing, but the council
:02:40. > :02:45.wants so-called land Weller's band. There is relief for two MPs who
:02:45. > :02:55.could sit -- whose constituencies will not be under threat after
:02:55. > :03:01.
:03:01. > :03:06.plans for boundary changes will not Good for communities and good for
:03:06. > :03:11.some Liberal Democrat MPs. Gareth Johnson, you may be could have
:03:11. > :03:18.afforded to lose Hugh Roberts in terms of the Conservative hold, but
:03:18. > :03:21.the Lib Dems could not. It is absolutely right you have a member
:03:21. > :03:27.of parliament representing the same number of people and that is our
:03:27. > :03:35.intention with the boundary changes. At the moment we could beat that
:03:35. > :03:40.Labour Party by 2 million but still only win one seat. It has ensured
:03:40. > :03:47.that the weight of people's vote in one area is different to another.
:03:47. > :03:57.Some MPs represent 50,000 people, some represent 100,000 people. That
:03:57. > :04:00.
:04:00. > :04:05.needed to change. People objected to these boundary proposals which
:04:05. > :04:11.give us an extraordinary shipped constituency. It was very unpopular
:04:11. > :04:16.locally, I am pleased to see it gone. One question about school
:04:16. > :04:21.places, this is a big problem in this part of the world, is it right
:04:21. > :04:26.to encourage people from outside the area to other schools? We have
:04:26. > :04:30.an increase in the birthrate and we have to provide for those children.
:04:30. > :04:35.Parents are quite right to be concerned about safety outside the
:04:35. > :04:41.school gates. The Liberal Democrats have suggested in every manifesto