:01:31. > :01:41.And in the South East: Some town houses give themselves big rises.
:01:41. > :01:41.
:01:41. > :42:34.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2453 seconds
:42:34. > :42:39.We asked if the system is ripe for Hello. This is the Sunday Politics
:42:39. > :42:46.in the South East. Coming up: Putting military families before
:42:46. > :42:53.the homeless. We asked who should be at the top of the housing list?
:42:53. > :43:01.Joining me in the studio this week are a Conservative MP for Hove and
:43:01. > :43:07.also with as is the prospective Labour Party for Chatham. Let us
:43:07. > :43:12.talk about something that is quite relevant to your area. Boris
:43:12. > :43:22.Johnson has sent his aviation adviser to tried to persuade some
:43:22. > :43:28.locals to come on board over the Thames estuary the airport. He has
:43:28. > :43:34.been given short shrift and sent packing, could you be persuaded by
:43:34. > :43:41.the arguments for the estuary airport? Absolutely not. That is
:43:41. > :43:48.the position of the Labour group I sit on as Councillor but also as a
:43:48. > :43:53.parliamentary candidate. This has gone on for years. I suspect Daniel
:43:53. > :43:58.is on manoeuvres in Kent because Boris is due at the Transport
:43:58. > :44:04.Committee in the House of Commons on Monday. There is no groundswell
:44:05. > :44:11.of support for it. What does his best to the airport idea mean to
:44:11. > :44:17.you, what does it do to his credibility? I am in favour of the
:44:17. > :44:22.idea, I think we need more capacity. I would like to see the regional
:44:22. > :44:27.airports used more. In principle we must have the extra capacity and
:44:27. > :44:34.Boris Island is a good idea for congestion and emissions across
:44:34. > :44:40.London. So you would tell him you are on site? I would indeed. Do you
:44:40. > :44:49.think he would be a good future leader of the party? I think he is
:44:49. > :44:54.brilliant. Thank you very much indeed. Now how much should you be
:44:54. > :45:03.paid if you are helping make important local decisions? The
:45:03. > :45:07.amount has gone up every year, a 74% increase since 2008. While
:45:07. > :45:17.public sector workers are under the cosh, how have they got away with
:45:17. > :45:22.it? Our reporter went to find out. In the economic downturn, council
:45:22. > :45:31.budgets have been cut. Frontline services have suffered and staff
:45:31. > :45:39.have had pay freezes. Leaders at Tunbridge Wells borough councils
:45:39. > :45:45.want their allowances to rise to �6,312. They want the leader of the
:45:45. > :45:51.cabinet to get more than �2,000 extra per year. That is part of a
:45:51. > :45:56.budget that would increase in council tax by nearly 2%. People
:45:56. > :46:01.respond to in the town were not impressed. I think at this stage,
:46:01. > :46:06.given the financial crisis we have been through, it is a bad idea.
:46:06. > :46:12.They are doing a job for the community so the money side should
:46:12. > :46:16.come secondary. They are not wonderful, are they, sort...
:46:16. > :46:21.cannot charge people extra money and then fill your pockets with
:46:22. > :46:29.that money. They should use it in schools or something. We are all in
:46:29. > :46:35.it together! I think it is wrong, I think most taxpayers will think it
:46:35. > :46:41.is wrong. If they do continued to ramp them up they will have to
:46:41. > :46:45.account for it come election time. Elected councillors are volunteers
:46:45. > :46:53.but they get an allowance to compensate them from her time spent
:46:53. > :46:57.on their duties. In addition they need expenses like travel and even
:46:57. > :47:03.childcare costs. Here at the Town Hall it is councillors themselves
:47:03. > :47:07.to suggest how much the allowances should be. Recommendations are
:47:07. > :47:14.based on the average earnings in the local area and how many hours
:47:14. > :47:20.they are expected to work. In Tunbridge Wells allowances are set
:47:20. > :47:27.to rise by more than what was recommended. To save costs
:47:27. > :47:36.elsewhere the number of committees will be reintroduced. This will be
:47:36. > :47:43.the 4th year of pay freezes. Councillors in Hastings have chosen
:47:43. > :47:53.to freeze their allowances in line with their staff pay. Staff have
:47:53. > :47:56.
:47:56. > :48:06.suffered, in effect, a 20% peak/over the past five years. It
:48:06. > :48:06.
:48:06. > :48:12.makes no sense at all. What would make sense would be to link any
:48:12. > :48:19.councillors allowances to that of the pay of staff working for the
:48:19. > :48:24.local authorities. They are responsible for looking after our
:48:24. > :48:30.streets and leisure facilities, bin collection and housing. Since the
:48:30. > :48:40.recession began most councils have frozen allowances but in six
:48:40. > :48:46.councils there have been rises of up to 45%. Four councils have
:48:46. > :48:56.decided to reduce allowances. Allowances here have been reduced.
:48:56. > :49:02.Councillors now get �700 less than they were six years ago. It is a
:49:02. > :49:09.saving of �300,000. Our staff are taking the friezes and in effect we
:49:09. > :49:14.are reducing staff because of the limitations of finances at the
:49:14. > :49:23.central Government. We are feeling the three's the same as everyone
:49:23. > :49:28.else. There will be mergers of councillors. Less councillors. I
:49:28. > :49:34.think that is the trend that will come so it will drive some of these
:49:34. > :49:38.changes. With councillors allowances driving so much
:49:38. > :49:44.controversy and some paying themselves more than others, is it
:49:44. > :49:51.time to take them out of their own hands and move to a more
:49:51. > :49:58.standardised independent system? We are joined by at Tunbridge Wells
:49:58. > :50:05.counsellor. Do you think you should get another increase? If this is
:50:05. > :50:09.voted through it will be up by 74%, is it really needed? It is a
:50:09. > :50:16.deferred payment for staff that was spotted on three years ago. It is
:50:16. > :50:21.quite easy to single out extra payments to the areas people but
:50:21. > :50:28.the whole budget has been reduced by �40,000 this year. The tax payer
:50:28. > :50:34.will actually be paying �40,000 less this year. They could pay less
:50:34. > :50:40.altogether if you were not taking this rise. I think that is true.
:50:40. > :50:46.The arguments are understandable. The union person was talking about
:50:46. > :50:53.the dead. He would be a candidate for low pay. This is very low pay
:50:53. > :51:02.we are talking about. It is about how to pay for our democracy and
:51:02. > :51:07.what we as residents get for our money. You heard the voices in the
:51:07. > :51:14.report there, are you not concerned about how it looks?
:51:14. > :51:24.recommendations are based on the average pay of -40 % of the
:51:24. > :51:25.
:51:25. > :51:31.Tonbridge burr. The councillors pay is estimated on that. I think it is
:51:31. > :51:37.very easy and very understandable that there is a story but what it
:51:37. > :51:42.paid should be used at is an opportunity to look at how we pay
:51:42. > :51:48.for our democracy, who does it and how to extend the possibilities of
:51:48. > :51:56.who we choose to do that. It is very limited at the moment. Let us
:51:56. > :52:06.get on to that but first of all you will ask the youngest councillor.
:52:06. > :52:13.What is your allowance? I get slightly more than �9,000. We have
:52:13. > :52:19.a single layer of local Government. We ourselves this year voted
:52:19. > :52:24.through a 5% pay cut. What do you think about what is happening in
:52:25. > :52:30.Tunbridge Wells? I am slightly concerned. The increases should be
:52:30. > :52:34.proportionate to the wages in the public. I think the public want to
:52:34. > :52:44.see that all are equal in local Government, especially when
:52:44. > :52:47.
:52:47. > :52:57.services are being cut and jobs are having to go. It is interesting
:52:57. > :52:58.
:52:58. > :53:03.that he gets �9,000. I get �6,000. How many hours do you do? It is
:53:03. > :53:12.hard to work out. We will not be able to work out if he gets more
:53:12. > :53:22.or! �6,000 is not a salary but who should decide how much it is?
:53:22. > :53:23.
:53:23. > :53:28.Should we have a standardised amount? Nobody likes to pay for
:53:28. > :53:35.Government but at the end of the day you have to and you must pay a
:53:35. > :53:42.realistic wage to attract the right sort of candidates. I do think we
:53:42. > :53:49.need to pay the correct level. Let us not let Labour get away with
:53:49. > :53:54.talking in tongues here. Labour voted against reducing the cost of
:53:54. > :53:59.Parliament now I do not see them doing the same locally as they did
:53:59. > :54:03.nationally which is what they should do. The biggest point is
:54:03. > :54:08.that there is no consistency. It looks like brilliant value for
:54:08. > :54:15.money when you look at Dartford council where the reader gets
:54:15. > :54:21.�27,000. He considers it to be a job. Should you get a salary?
:54:21. > :54:29.would like to see it as more of a professional service we get from
:54:29. > :54:33.our representatives. When I looked around. If you are a county
:54:33. > :54:38.councillor you are a candidate in the elections. I look around the
:54:39. > :54:43.county council and Tunbridge Wells Council and I see it is largely
:54:43. > :54:50.drawn from the retired, the unemployed and the idle rich. There
:54:50. > :54:56.are very few women. Almost nobody of working age who is a man in the
:54:56. > :55:02.council because they cannot afford to do it. If we create a job where
:55:02. > :55:06.they should be in the office five days per week. At the moment I can
:55:06. > :55:16.say I cannot do a committee meeting because I have my daughter's
:55:16. > :55:16.
:55:16. > :55:21.birthday. That would not happen if you go to a professional thing.
:55:21. > :55:28.Would you go for that? Absolutely. We do have an independent
:55:28. > :55:34.renumeration panel in our area. I have personally taken decision-
:55:34. > :55:39.making out of the politicians' hands. I want to clarify that we do
:55:39. > :55:45.need to be very sensitive to the public. They are suffering real
:55:45. > :55:52.wage cuts. A lot of people work part-time at the moment as well. We
:55:52. > :56:00.have to reflect on the fact that they are not getting pay increases.
:56:00. > :56:05.We have got councillors in some cases paying 21,000 in allowances
:56:05. > :56:10.that they do not even know what about. There are issues around
:56:10. > :56:20.expenses and people are very sensitive to this fact. If you do
:56:20. > :56:27.get elected it is �12,800 which is more than what this man gets.
:56:27. > :56:37.leader of Tunbridge Wells put 64 70 hours. It is a full-time job even
:56:37. > :56:38.
:56:38. > :56:43.at 40 hours per week. Now who needs a council house most? If you are ex
:56:43. > :56:52.military you may get a house even though a homeless person has been
:56:52. > :57:01.waiting for years. There are currently 340 homes available, 600
:57:01. > :57:05.applicants queueing up for them. That is a nightmare. We have David
:57:05. > :57:13.green with us. Why would you want to move homeless people further
:57:13. > :57:22.down the list? It seems strange logic to say homeless people are
:57:22. > :57:30.not in need of a home. They are. We have 6,000 people on our housing
:57:30. > :57:39.waiting list. The housing stock generates only 300 houses per year.
:57:39. > :57:46.We have a problem. Also what will affect us are the Government
:57:46. > :57:50.benefit changes. Universal credit for example. But why a move
:57:50. > :57:56.homeless people further down the list? I think you need to
:57:56. > :58:02.distinguish between the housing list and housing stock and
:58:02. > :58:11.homelessness. Yes, homeless people need our attention and are getting
:58:11. > :58:19.our attention. Our duty to statutory homeless is very
:58:19. > :58:24.important. There are not people on the streets, we do house them. That
:58:24. > :58:29.is a different situation to how we manage our own housing stock. We
:58:29. > :58:39.give priority to people with the really serious medical and social
:58:39. > :58:39.
:58:39. > :58:44.need. Management transfers includes domestic violence. You are giving
:58:44. > :58:49.high priority to military individuals and families, it is
:58:49. > :58:53.intriguing why they are treated differently. They would be allowed
:58:53. > :58:59.to have significant assets and still come into the council housing
:58:59. > :59:06.list. They would be a higher priority than local homeless people.
:59:06. > :59:13.How is that fair? Because just through being military personnel it
:59:13. > :59:20.makes it very difficult for them to fulfil the other qualifications.
:59:20. > :59:30.They would otherwise be excluded from our housing stock. We needed a
:59:30. > :59:31.
:59:31. > :59:36.way to prioritise them and that is what we have done. We have also
:59:36. > :59:41.given as priority people who need to downsize their homes because
:59:41. > :59:49.they cannot afford where they are living after the bedroom tax in
:59:49. > :59:54.April. That is two categories who are in higher category than a
:59:54. > :00:00.homeless people. Thank you. I suspect we could do a whole debate
:00:00. > :00:04.about the bedroom tax and that is likely to come. Obviously the
:00:04. > :00:09.shortage of council properties is the real story behind all of this.
:00:09. > :00:15.But to do you think should be top priority for council houses?
:00:15. > :00:23.problem is acute. There is not enough social housing to survive.
:00:23. > :00:28.Each local authority has to set its own priorities. I think what we
:00:28. > :00:33.need to emphasise is that if you are homeless here is still a
:00:33. > :00:39.statutory obligation to house you it may just not be in the social
:00:39. > :00:47.housing register. Where? That is currently an unfortunate situation
:00:47. > :00:52.where there is not a supply. If you are able through health
:00:53. > :00:58.requirement... Who is the most needy? The individuals who I would
:00:58. > :01:03.place are those who have health concerns, the elderly and infirm.
:01:03. > :01:08.And who would be top of your list? The homeless people are extremely
:01:08. > :01:13.vulnerable. What they have had by having this the year rule. They
:01:13. > :01:18.should not push the problem away so it comes off their register. They
:01:18. > :01:24.should fix the problem, used innovative techniques like Brighton
:01:24. > :01:29.is using now. Let's talk about that imaginative idea in Brighton. Plans
:01:29. > :01:35.to turn a car-park in to a homeless village where people are housed in
:01:35. > :01:42.shipping area is -- shipping containers, are you all right with
:01:42. > :01:46.that? We cannot turn it into a ghetto. It is just one example. I
:01:46. > :01:51.think the local authority should talk to landlords who have their
:01:51. > :01:57.buildings empty and turn them into homeless shelters, especially where
:01:57. > :02:03.houses which have not been used for one year. Been really must use look
:02:03. > :02:13.after the almost, get them off the streets. There is so much going on
:02:13. > :02:14.
:02:14. > :02:21.in politics this week. Let us get a round-up in 60 seconds. As the
:02:21. > :02:27.Commons voted in favour of gay marriage someone who opposed the
:02:27. > :02:32.bill put forward a new idea. Abolish civil marriage and create a
:02:32. > :02:39.Civil Union belt that applies to all, irrespective of their
:02:39. > :02:46.sexuality. And a police commissioner wants a �15,000 per
:02:46. > :02:54.year youth Commissioner. And this lady once a deputy paid �45,000.
:02:54. > :03:03.Sweeping reforms to the EU Commons fishery policy to prevent fish
:03:03. > :03:09.being thrown back into the water. Water customers face a higher than
:03:09. > :03:14.national average rise in their water bills. And Nigel for Ryeish
:03:14. > :03:22.accused of being a Stalinist dictator. He calls the claims
:03:22. > :03:30.laughable nonsense. Even when he is being criticised Nigel Farage
:03:30. > :03:36.manages to make it into the show almost every week! Now I am hoping
:03:36. > :03:44.you were one of the Conservatives who voted in favour of gay marriage,
:03:44. > :03:48.is that too much of an assumption? I did vote in favour. I think
:03:48. > :03:53.individuals who want to get married should be allowed to do so.
:03:54. > :04:00.think the ban on Church of England managers for same-sex couples
:04:00. > :04:05.should be lifted? I do not think the Church should impose their
:04:05. > :04:10.rules on society in general and vice versa. It is about the balance
:04:10. > :04:17.of rights. Do you think it was a significant day in our history?
:04:17. > :04:21.Absolutely. It was a combination of perhaps two decades worth of action.
:04:21. > :04:29.So much was done on the civil partnerships Act which was a step
:04:29. > :04:34.towards this. An equal age of consent and the scrapping of
:04:34. > :04:42.section 28, a lot of good things have happened. There are a lot of
:04:42. > :04:48.things on which the Conservative Party is split. I think everyone is
:04:48. > :04:51.very clear that the Conservatives were divided on this.
:04:51. > :04:57.Conservatives brought this legislation in during their
:04:57. > :05:04.parliament, it is a good thing, let's rejoice in it. Most MPs voted
:05:04. > :05:11.in favour of it. A very quick thought on the police and crime
:05:11. > :05:21.commissioners. Four to �5,000 for a deputy, should she be allowed?
:05:21. > :05:22.