:00:35. > :00:42.Morning, folks. Welcome to Sunday Politics. Ed Miliband and
:00:42. > :00:44.Morning, folks. Welcome to rest of the Labour clan are
:00:44. > :00:45.Morning, folks. Welcome to Brighton for their
:00:45. > :00:49.Morning, folks. Welcome to this weekend. He's promised policies
:00:49. > :00:51.galore. But as a Sunday Politics poll finds a third of
:00:51. > :00:53.galore. But as a Sunday Politics councillors don't think he's doing a
:00:53. > :00:54.galore. But as a Sunday Politics good job, will that be enough to
:00:54. > :00:58.steady the Labour ship? Back in Westminster, they're
:00:59. > :01:00.partying like it's 2006, Back in Westminster, they're
:01:00. > :01:01.McBride's memoirs re-ignite Back in Westminster, they're
:01:01. > :01:05.Blair-Brown wars. Back in Westminster, they're
:01:05. > :01:07.will tell us why he is Back in Westminster, they're
:01:07. > :01:11.the former Brown spin doctor. Back in Westminster, they're
:01:11. > :01:12.And speaking of Back in Westminster, they're
:01:12. > :01:13.infighting, Conservative Party Back in Westminster, they're
:01:13. > :01:15.Chairman Grant Shapps will Back in Westminster, they're
:01:15. > :01:17.response to the rampant Tory-bashing at the Lib Dem Conference
:01:17. > :01:23.And in the South East: Whose me, as
:01:23. > :01:27.And in the South East: Whose fault is it that a quarter of children's
:01:28. > :01:30.centres in Kent will close? We hear from the MP who says it's time
:01:30. > :01:36.over the two thirds of the ethnic minority vote but now stands
:01:36. > :01:44.over the two thirds of the ethnic of institutional racism. Are they
:01:44. > :01:49.right? With me, the best and the brightest political panel in the
:01:49. > :01:53.business. Isabel Hardman, Janan be tweeting like demented Damians
:01:53. > :01:56.throughout the programme. First today, scrapping the bedroom tax.
:01:56. > :02:02.Universal childcare for primary school kids. More apprenticeships.
:02:02. > :02:04.Labour Conference only begins in earnest today, but the policy and
:02:04. > :02:11.spending commitments are coming according to the Labour leader's
:02:11. > :02:12.critics. He's been out and about this morning and told Andrew Marr
:02:12. > :02:23.that he knew it was going to be this morning and told Andrew Marr
:02:23. > :02:29.It is about a party that lost office three years ago. We are trying to be
:02:29. > :02:34.a one term opposition. That is tough. I believe it is a fight that
:02:34. > :02:41.we can win and I am up for that fight. The stakes are so high for
:02:41. > :02:45.young people who want a job, for people whose living standards are
:02:45. > :02:53.being squeezed. For people who think that this is not good enough for
:02:53. > :02:54.Britain. So what do key Labour Party activists - its councillors - think
:02:54. > :02:58.about the direction Mr Miliband activists - its councillors - think
:02:58. > :03:02.taking their party? Adam Fleming is in Brighton at the Party Conference
:03:02. > :03:12.with all the details of our latest exclusive Sunday Politics survey.
:03:12. > :03:19.conference set. Let us unwrap them. With the help of an opinion poll we
:03:19. > :03:24.surveyed 1350 Labour councillors across England and Wales. We wanted
:03:24. > :03:26.to find out what they think as Labour gathers for its conference.
:03:26. > :03:32.The Labour leader warmed up for Labour gathers for its conference.
:03:32. > :03:40.week by taking to his soap box in Brighton city centre. It is great
:03:40. > :03:42.week by taking to his soap box in councillors said they did not think
:03:42. > :03:48.Ed Miliband was doing a good job as leader. 30% said they thought the
:03:48. > :03:55.party would have a better chance if someone else was in charge at the
:03:55. > :04:01.next election. You will see more of Ed Miliband as we run-up to general
:04:02. > :04:11.election. He has been in the job for three years! Now it is crunch time.
:04:11. > :04:16.The other Ed, Ed Balls, was disliked by roughly one third of the party as
:04:16. > :04:23.well. Ed Balls is not a pop your man. He says things and he speaks
:04:23. > :04:32.his mind. -- not a popular man. diplomatic. Sadly Ed Balls did not
:04:32. > :04:39.seem to be that bothered about our survey. Over at a conference centre
:04:40. > :04:45.When it comes to relations with trade unions, the majority of Labour
:04:45. > :04:50.councillors thought things were absolutely fine. Just 9% thought
:04:50. > :04:57.things with the unions were a little bit too close. Tricky because Ed
:04:57. > :05:00.Miliband want to loosen the link. The shadow environment secretary
:05:00. > :05:08.arrived in Brighton ride bicycle from London to raise money for
:05:08. > :05:10.councillors what they would do if the next election results in a hung
:05:10. > :05:16.parliament, just over half said the next election results in a hung
:05:16. > :05:20.would tell the lid Dems to get on their bikes. We would never say
:05:20. > :05:23.would tell the lid Dems to get on to going into coalition. It gives us
:05:23. > :05:27.the chance to be in government and prepare some of the damage of the
:05:27. > :05:32.last three years. So are you going to start being nice about the Lib
:05:32. > :05:38.Dems? I always treat them with courtesy. And the parties admitted
:05:38. > :05:44.that perhaps they had opened the door to too many immigrants. It
:05:44. > :05:46.that perhaps they had opened the our survey Labour councillors of
:05:46. > :05:53.warming the felt that immigration We're now joined by the Shadow Chief
:05:53. > :06:03.Secretary to the Treasury, Rachel Reeves. Good morning. Let us start
:06:03. > :06:10.with Ed Miliband. Is it true that the team insisted that he be called
:06:10. > :06:17.the leader? I just call him Ed and I think the rest of the Shadow Cabinet
:06:17. > :06:26.do. Do you welcome working for a leader that says he is winning back
:06:26. > :06:34.socialism? We are a democratic important thing is that we have
:06:34. > :06:37.socialism? We are a democratic policies that will improve people 's
:06:37. > :06:42.lives and tackle the cost of living crisis facing so many families.
:06:42. > :06:49.Policies like expanding childcare, offering more apprenticeships, all
:06:49. > :06:54.policies that I think the country are calling out for after three
:06:54. > :07:01.years of a flat-lining economy and seeing prices rise faster than wages
:07:01. > :07:08.for 38 out of the 39 months but Minister. I think that is the most
:07:08. > :07:13.important thing. So it is OK now to risk their to the Labour Party again
:07:13. > :07:18.as the Socialist party? The clue is in the name, we stand up for working
:07:18. > :07:23.people. You are socialist party according to the leader. We have
:07:23. > :07:27.always been the Labour Party, that is our name and we stand up for
:07:27. > :07:33.working people, not the privileged few like this government with their
:07:33. > :07:39.tax cuts for millionaires. Those are privileged few. The Labour Party is
:07:39. > :07:49.about helping everyone in Britain, all families. Interesting that your
:07:49. > :07:52.run don't use the word socialist. In our survey one third of Labour
:07:52. > :08:01.councillors said Ed Miliband was not doing a good job as leader. If he
:08:01. > :08:02.councillors, who can he convince? Well you could say that two thirds
:08:02. > :08:08.of councillors think that he is Well you could say that two thirds
:08:08. > :08:14.right leader. But these are Labour councillors. The overall majority of
:08:14. > :08:22.Labour councillors think that he is doing a good job. What matters is
:08:22. > :08:28.the results on election day. Two thirds of councillors think that he
:08:28. > :08:32.is doing a good job. That us see what they say at the end of this
:08:32. > :08:37.week. Because I think the policies he is announcing will go down well
:08:37. > :08:38.week. Because I think the policies with Labour Party people and will
:08:38. > :08:40.also resonate with the British public. Policies like expanding
:08:40. > :08:47.apprenticeships, giving a break public. Policies like expanding
:08:47. > :08:51.struggling. I think people will public. Policies like expanding
:08:51. > :08:58.what kind of a leader that he is. Well he has a mountain to climb
:08:58. > :09:02.among all voters. Let me ask the question. Just 12% see him as a
:09:02. > :09:07.Prime Minister in waiting, just question. Just 12% see him as a
:09:07. > :09:10.see him as a natural leader. Why? If question. Just 12% see him as a
:09:10. > :09:16.you look at the overall opinion polls, we are consistently ahead in
:09:16. > :09:22.those polls. It is hard being leader demonstrate how you would be Prime
:09:22. > :09:29.Minister. By nature you are in opposition. But he has taken on
:09:29. > :09:31.Rupert Murdoch and the press barons. That is strong leadership, standing
:09:31. > :09:38.up to the vast majority. If you That is strong leadership, standing
:09:38. > :09:45.at his reforms to our relationship with the trade unions, strengthening
:09:45. > :09:51.ties with individual members. I think that he is a strong leader
:09:51. > :09:57.making the right decisions. If that is the case, why has the Labour
:09:57. > :10:00.making the right decisions. If that gone from 14 points one year ago to
:10:00. > :10:08.at most four points now. What went wrong? Well we are six or eight
:10:08. > :10:13.are six or eight points ahead in the consistently ahead. It looks as
:10:13. > :10:14.are six or eight points ahead in the we would get an overall majority if
:10:14. > :10:18.there was an election tomorrow. we would get an overall majority if
:10:18. > :10:23.we have more work to do to convince more people to vote for Labour.
:10:23. > :10:25.we have more work to do to convince this is a historic challenge, to be
:10:25. > :10:29.a one term Labour opposition. I this is a historic challenge, to be
:10:29. > :10:32.a one term Labour opposition. I believe that Ed Miliband will be the
:10:32. > :10:38.next Labour Prime Minister and will be an excellent Prime Minister. The
:10:38. > :10:41.big policy announcement today is the guaranteed childcare for all primary
:10:41. > :10:52.school children. How much will that government, they ring fenced money
:10:52. > :10:55.after-school and breakfast clubs. We think that money should be ring
:10:55. > :11:01.fenced again. How much will it cost? We are saying that schools
:11:01. > :11:05.within their budgets should be able to provide that. At the moment they
:11:05. > :11:12.can charge for children to come to provide that. At the moment they
:11:12. > :11:17.their first clubs. But this is a additional money. As it was under
:11:18. > :11:22.the last Labour government it will be about ring fencing money because
:11:22. > :11:27.we think that this is a priority. This is something that the schools
:11:28. > :11:37.should do. You cannot ring fenced money you do not have. You saying
:11:37. > :11:41.schoolchild from eight o'clock in the morning until six o'clock at
:11:41. > :11:46.night and it will not cost any more money? Well we did ring fence that
:11:46. > :11:52.money in the last Labour government. That money is gone! It has not gone.
:11:52. > :12:02.It is about priorities and we are saying that it should be a priority
:12:02. > :12:07.where is the money being spent now that you would take it from? If
:12:07. > :12:09.where is the money being spent now look at some of the things that
:12:09. > :12:11.where is the money being spent now government is doing, building free
:12:11. > :12:19.schools in areas where there are already enough. That is capital
:12:19. > :12:26.spending. We are ring fencing that priorities. We had the ring fence
:12:26. > :12:29.when we were in government. It would be reintroduced so that schools
:12:29. > :12:31.when we were in government. It would to offer that wraparound care. Of
:12:32. > :12:36.course schools can charge a small to offer that wraparound care. Of
:12:36. > :12:41.fee for their breakfast clubs and after-school DVDs. But the important
:12:41. > :12:48.thing is that provision is there for parents going out to work. Ed Balls
:12:48. > :12:55.and Ed Miliband are at the heart of the Brown project. Damien Wright was
:12:55. > :12:59.the hit man. Is it not inconceivable that they did not know what he was
:12:59. > :13:08.the hit man. Is it not inconceivable up to. It is inconceivable that
:13:08. > :13:09.the hit man. Is it not inconceivable did not -- Damian McBride. I am
:13:09. > :13:14.asking about Damian McBride. What did not -- Damian McBride. I am
:13:14. > :13:19.asking about Damian McBride. What I'm saying is that I was not there.
:13:19. > :13:25.I was not there under the last Labour government. But I do know
:13:25. > :13:37.that these things are not happening under the leadership of Ed Miliband.
:13:37. > :13:42.that backstabbing going on. There is no plotting against Ed Balls going
:13:42. > :13:50.on? I do not see that. And anyone who briefed against colleagues
:13:50. > :13:55.should be sacked, I agree with that. Nick Clegg's conference speech made
:13:55. > :14:00.it clear he was repaired to work with Ed Miliband in the event of a
:14:00. > :14:09.hung parliament. Are you excited by that prospect or is it just boring?
:14:10. > :14:17.That is very generous of Nick Clegg to say that. With his poll ratings
:14:17. > :14:21.of 9%. I think it is up to the general public to decide who they
:14:21. > :14:23.want to form a government. We are campaigning for an overall Labour
:14:23. > :14:38.that just boring boring? I want campaigning for an overall Labour
:14:38. > :14:41.serve in a Labour government is campaigning for an overall Labour
:14:41. > :14:44.a coalition government. That is campaigning for an overall Labour
:14:44. > :14:48.we are campaigning for. Thank you for joining us. Steve Richards,
:14:49. > :14:55.we are campaigning for. Thank you has Ed Miliband got to do this
:14:55. > :15:01.week? He has got to start to win the argument about the economy. I think
:15:01. > :15:05.they will be quite clever on that in terms of saying that the recovery
:15:05. > :15:10.has begun but it is not going to benefit many of the voters. Unlike
:15:10. > :15:24.previous economic recoveries. That is a strong line and they need to
:15:24. > :15:26.make that again and again. The recovery has barely started. The
:15:26. > :15:28.make that again and again. The interesting thing, Isabel, they
:15:28. > :15:32.make that again and again. The to make a living standards the issue
:15:32. > :15:36.let's return to living standards which have been squeezed. The polls
:15:36. > :15:42.show that twice as many people blame Labour for the living standards
:15:42. > :15:44.show that twice as many people blame the Conservatives. It is a great
:15:44. > :15:48.scene for them to mine, and it is the only one before they announce
:15:48. > :15:52.big policies, but they have not gained the trust of voters on the
:15:52. > :15:56.economy, so the Conservatives can say they are finishing the job of
:15:56. > :16:02.fixing the recovery now and then cannot quite trust us with the
:16:02. > :16:09.economy but we will talk about living standards. Ed Miliband's
:16:09. > :16:12.economy but we will talk about elucidating policies and not just
:16:12. > :16:18.incredibly vulnerable. The only thing worse than not having a policy
:16:18. > :16:24.for an opposition leader is to have a policy. It gives the opposition
:16:24. > :16:26.something to attack, the media something to scrutinise and it makes
:16:26. > :16:31.you bold rubble and you can see something to scrutinise and it makes
:16:31. > :16:41.coming through already before the conference has started. You have
:16:41. > :16:47.childcare. Spigot can he provide wraparound childcare for free?
:16:47. > :16:49.childcare. Spigot can he provide can he provide wraparound childcare
:16:49. > :16:56.for free? I don't even know what it is. Opposition is emphatically an
:16:56. > :17:00.art form, and the art form, and artform for them at the moment is to
:17:00. > :17:05.announce policies without spending any money and it is very difficult
:17:05. > :17:09.to do. You gave an illustration any money and it is very difficult
:17:09. > :17:14.how difficult it is. They are under huge pressure, for the last year, to
:17:14. > :17:18.announce policies and they announce one on childcare and you immediately
:17:18. > :17:22.say, how do you paper it? And she immediately says, we will not spend
:17:22. > :17:28.a penny on it, because they are terrified of spending anything.
:17:28. > :17:32.a penny on it, because they are is where it an artform. The tax
:17:32. > :17:37.suspension before and election is crazy, because they will find money
:17:37. > :17:41.one way or another, but in another way, they cannot say we will spend
:17:41. > :17:44.money on this. It is a real problem. How do you measure the state of
:17:44. > :17:47.money on this. It is a real problem. coalition after the Liberal Democrat
:17:47. > :17:51.conference? The Liberal Democrats were in a very strong position after
:17:51. > :17:55.their conference, Nick Clegg had faced and activists on some issues,
:17:55. > :17:59.including fracking, which they supported, which seem to be the
:17:59. > :18:02.including fracking, which they important part of the conference. In
:18:02. > :18:06.terms of the coalition, the Tories have had to sit and watch as Vince
:18:06. > :18:10.Cable, Nick Clegg and Coe have basically criticised them and said
:18:10. > :18:13.they are evil and only the Lib Dems can make sure the Government is
:18:13. > :18:14.they are evil and only the Lib Dems and works properly. So in terms
:18:14. > :18:17.they are evil and only the Lib Dems how the coalition works, you can
:18:17. > :18:25.expect to see some revenge at the Tory conference. The Lib Dems, Nick
:18:25. > :18:32.Clegg's followers, they had their revenge. Mister Clegg may have
:18:32. > :18:38.convinced his own activists to stay behind him, but he has a bigger
:18:38. > :18:41.convincing the British people. There is some interesting polling they
:18:41. > :18:46.have done privately that suggests there is a market of about 25% of
:18:46. > :18:49.the electorate which is plausibly open to them, and all they have
:18:49. > :18:51.the electorate which is plausibly do is target policies remorselessly
:18:51. > :18:55.at that group, rather than the broader public, in order to do well
:18:55. > :18:57.enough at the next election to hold the balance of power. That is why
:18:58. > :19:01.policies that seem weird to us, the balance of power. That is why
:19:01. > :19:15.free school meals regardless of income, may perversely make sense to
:19:15. > :19:17.them. Because it appeals to their political world we are in, the
:19:17. > :19:19.Labour strategists think they can political world we are in, the
:19:19. > :19:20.Labour strategists think they can win with 35%, the Lib Dems are going
:19:20. > :19:22.to concentrate on 25. The Tories win with 35%, the Lib Dems are going
:19:22. > :19:24.to concentrate on 25. The Tories have seized to be a national party
:19:24. > :19:28.any more. We haven't been used to it for a long time. In the 80s, one
:19:28. > :19:32.party dominated, the Tories. In for a long time. In the 80s, one
:19:32. > :19:39.90s into the 21st century, the policy matter delayed the Labour
:19:39. > :19:42.Party dominated. -- the Labour party dominated. We are now here but we
:19:42. > :19:46.have other parties hoping that dominated. We are now here but we
:19:46. > :19:49.will give them a small overall majority and it is the best they can
:19:49. > :19:55.get. It is a very odd situation where the main two parties feel
:19:55. > :20:00.get. It is a very odd situation can lose and the Lib Dems are openly
:20:00. > :20:05.targeting only 25%. They have gotten rid of 75% already and it is a long
:20:05. > :20:12.way from the policies of last couple of decades Nick Clegg talked about
:20:12. > :20:15.all of the policies he had locked. There is a real opportunity for
:20:15. > :20:17.all of the policies he had locked. Conservatives to say that he is
:20:17. > :20:21.blocking all of the things that voters outside of our bays are
:20:21. > :20:26.interested in, top immigration policy, human rights reform, that
:20:26. > :20:30.sort of thing. David Cameron can say that in Manchester next week. One
:20:30. > :20:46.thing was quite clear, it came out of this awayday, and and this is
:20:46. > :20:51.this, that when you look at Mister Miller band's polls, the Tories
:20:51. > :20:57.this, that when you look at Mister going to make this a presidential
:20:57. > :21:03.Which is why I am curious why they When the strength of your party
:21:04. > :21:07.Which is why I am curious why they against his opponents, why not have
:21:07. > :21:09.him or her juxtaposed against them in 90 minutes three times a week.
:21:09. > :21:17.past week has given us inklings When the Lib Dems gathered for their
:21:17. > :21:23.Government is planning on fighting When the Lib Dems gathered for their
:21:23. > :21:25.annual shindig in Glasgow, some ministers were non-too complimentary
:21:25. > :21:31.about their blue blood fellows. ministers were non-too complimentary
:21:31. > :21:36.bedfellows. Vince Cable led the ministers were non-too complimentary
:21:36. > :21:40.Tories had reverted to type as a nasty party and describe their
:21:40. > :21:44.politics as ugly, cynical, callous and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not
:21:44. > :21:47.restrict himself to policies that and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not
:21:47. > :21:49.the Lib Dems had champion, such and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not
:21:49. > :21:58.increasing the amount you can earn before paying tax. The Deputy Prime
:21:58. > :22:01.Minister proudly listed all of the things he had stopped the Tories
:22:01. > :22:05.from doing. Speak of scrapping housing benefit the young people,
:22:05. > :22:13.no. No to ditching the human rights act. No to weakening the protections
:22:13. > :22:16.in the equalities act. So how much of a break have the yellow brigade
:22:16. > :22:18.being on Conservative ambitions question mark in the two leaders
:22:18. > :22:22.shake hands again after the 20 question mark in the two leaders
:22:22. > :22:29.election, what policies were David Cameron insist on. -- 2015? No
:22:29. > :22:32.matter how many times Nick Clegg And Grant Shapps joins me the Sunday
:22:32. > :22:48.Grant Shapps, good morning. Nick self-styled. He boasted to his
:22:48. > :22:52.conference that he had stopped the Tories from going ahead with 16
:22:52. > :22:56.policies in government. Is this accurate? I don't know but what
:22:56. > :22:59.policies in government. Is this can tell you, as your commentator
:22:59. > :23:02.Isabel said, some of the policies that we wanted them if we were a
:23:02. > :23:05.majority government sent out to that we wanted them if we were a
:23:05. > :23:10.very popular things, like reforming the human rights act and some of the
:23:10. > :23:11.problems that provides when it comes to sending people who have no right
:23:11. > :23:14.to be in this country back. So there to be in this country back. So there
:23:14. > :23:24.may be some things we could have inheritance tax cut? I don't know
:23:24. > :23:30.the details, but I think it is negotiation and sometimes you can't
:23:30. > :23:35.get everything you want, and we negotiation and sometimes you can't
:23:35. > :23:37.done the best, given where the electoral maths left us. That is why
:23:37. > :23:39.70 people in this country say they electoral maths left us. That is why
:23:39. > :23:42.70 people in this country say they would rather see a single party
:23:42. > :23:49.running the country -- why so many people. I have to say I agree. They
:23:49. > :23:53.Give me a couple of major policies that you would introduce if you
:23:53. > :23:55.Give me a couple of major policies had a majority in 2010 and were
:23:55. > :24:01.Give me a couple of major policies held back by the Lib Dems. Speaking
:24:01. > :24:07.the one I just mentioned would be Country, we have had 1,000 years of
:24:07. > :24:11.than capable of putting in place developing the law and we are more
:24:11. > :24:14.than capable of putting in place sensible laws. you would have left
:24:14. > :24:18.the European Court of human rights. We have already started the process
:24:18. > :24:23.of negotiation. There was some progress, but limited, and we would
:24:23. > :24:27.like to move further. Let me give you one other. I think this country
:24:27. > :24:30.has a great future but we can only ourselves the best place in the
:24:30. > :24:34.world to come and set up a business. ourselves the best place in the
:24:34. > :24:39.If we make ourselves the best place entrepreneurship and I think there
:24:39. > :24:44.are a host of things we could do to go further on cutting back red tape.
:24:44. > :24:52.And the Lib Dems have stopped you? I think that is the case. In what
:24:52. > :24:56.ways, if any, have the Lib Dems improved the coalition process? It
:24:56. > :24:58.has been a stable government. No one talks about when the next election
:24:58. > :25:04.will come, we know it is in May talks about when the next election
:25:04. > :25:10.but that is in part being in a coalition. The Tories wouldn't have
:25:10. > :25:16.done that? It wasn't the plan of any party to go from... In the old days,
:25:16. > :25:21.there would have been speculation. debate, you changed the British
:25:21. > :25:27.constitution in a fundamental way and nobody got a say. It was debated
:25:27. > :25:33.on the floor of the Has, as all constitutional changes are and there
:25:33. > :25:36.was a lot of agreement -- of the House. Nobody has ever said to me
:25:36. > :25:44.that it is a problem that we now have a fixed term parliament. Here
:25:44. > :25:49.it is, every five years. This is what it has done, it has provided
:25:49. > :25:52.stability in an incredibly uncertain economic time and that has been
:25:52. > :26:01.stability in an incredibly uncertain for the economy. we will chalk that
:26:01. > :26:08.up to delete -- Lib Dem. What about taking people out of tax, the Lib
:26:09. > :26:15.Dems did that question mark it is a great policy. It is a conservative
:26:15. > :26:21.led government, it is a Conservative This is a screen grab from your
:26:21. > :26:25.party's website, income tax cut This is a screen grab from your
:26:25. > :26:29.25 million people. You are taking the credit for it, it wouldn't have
:26:29. > :26:33.happened without the Lib Dems. It certainly came about because of
:26:33. > :26:35.happened without the Lib Dems. It coalition and we put it in the
:26:35. > :26:36.coalition agreement. It could not have happened without a Conservative
:26:36. > :26:41.Chancellor making it happen. It have happened without a Conservative
:26:41. > :26:48.right, 25 million people taken out of tax. Another 17 by this April
:26:48. > :26:52.will not be paying tax at all. you didn't want to do it. Look at what
:26:52. > :27:06.David Cameron told Nick Clegg during What Nick Clegg is promising is
:27:06. > :27:10.David Cameron told Nick Clegg during £17 billion tax cut. We are saying,
:27:10. > :27:14.stop the waste of 6 billion to stop the national insurance rise. I would
:27:14. > :27:17.love to take everyone out of their first £10,000 of income tax, it
:27:17. > :27:24.love to take everyone out of their beautiful idea but we cannot afford
:27:24. > :27:30.unaffordable and now you are taking the credit for it. I feel like it is
:27:30. > :27:33.having a three year afterwards argument, and we got into coalition
:27:33. > :27:37.because the British people put us there and we agreed to make the
:27:37. > :27:41.because the British people put us of it. And as it happens, if you
:27:41. > :27:45.absolutely think it is the right thing to take as many people out of
:27:45. > :27:54.tax entirely as possible. Two points 7 million people pay no tax at all
:27:54. > :27:59.threshold. -- 2.7 million. I'm pleased it worked out. What are
:27:59. > :27:59.threshold. -- 2.7 million. I'm most important thing is a majority
:27:59. > :28:05.Tory government would do after most important thing is a majority
:28:05. > :28:07.unencumbered by the Lib Dems? I think produce even more jobs when
:28:07. > :28:11.unemployment goes down, because think produce even more jobs when
:28:11. > :28:16.are the most entrepreneurial place to set up a business. Are more
:28:16. > :28:20.free-market economy? We make our money because we are out global
:28:20. > :28:26.trading economy. That is why it money because we are out global
:28:26. > :28:30.so important that we have to make sure it is easy to trade around
:28:30. > :28:32.so important that we have to make world. One simple example, it is
:28:32. > :28:34.crazy in my view that we have global tariffs that prevent some of the
:28:34. > :28:36.hardest other countries in the tariffs that prevent some of the
:28:36. > :28:36.hardest other countries in the world, in developing parts of the
:28:36. > :28:43.world, from exporting to us and world, in developing parts of the
:28:43. > :28:47.versa. I'm giving you a platform of things that I think we would be
:28:47. > :28:50.versa. I'm giving you a platform of interested in progressing in. It
:28:50. > :28:52.sounds like you are talking about even more Thatcherite, market led
:28:52. > :28:59.agendas. I think that you did a even more Thatcherite, market led
:28:59. > :29:02.amount to show this country that if you want to help the least well
:29:02. > :29:05.amount to show this country that if people in society, and the least
:29:05. > :29:09.well off people in the world, around the globe, the way to do it is to
:29:09. > :29:14.trade, and I think we should have an economy which is much more open
:29:14. > :29:15.trade, and I think we should have an free trade. If there is another
:29:15. > :29:19.trade, and I think we should have an parliament, and the poll suggest
:29:19. > :29:24.there might be, at the moment it is all to play for on both sides, what
:29:24. > :29:31.would your non-negotiable Red Line speak? We are still two years away
:29:31. > :29:35.from that, it is a long way away, but there is a lot we want to lay
:29:35. > :29:40.out. What we are going to be saying to this country is most people want
:29:40. > :29:44.a single party running the country, they think it is clean and clear and
:29:44. > :29:49.you don't end up with negotiation setting out a very clear platform
:29:49. > :29:52.which will be for hard-working people in this country who want
:29:52. > :29:55.which will be for hard-working work hard and get on in life. We
:29:55. > :29:59.would, I think, want to see the welfare state that we have got into,
:29:59. > :30:02.where it is no longer about helping those most in need but became a
:30:02. > :30:09.not working than in worker, I think we plan to ensure that this is an
:30:09. > :30:13.incredibly fair place to go out and do a day's work and get the money at
:30:13. > :30:15.the end of the day rather than thinking there is an alternative.
:30:15. > :30:17.the end of the day rather than you have promised a referendum on UK
:30:17. > :30:19.membership of the EU you have promised a referendum on UK
:30:19. > :30:26.must be your first Red you have promised a referendum on UK
:30:26. > :30:29.clear, we want to see a referendum, a reform European Union. So no
:30:29. > :30:35.poll... ? I should remind viewers a reform European Union. So no
:30:35. > :30:36.that there is an a reform European Union. So no
:30:36. > :30:38.a bill going through a reform European Union. So no
:30:38. > :30:43.right now, for a referendum on the a reform European Union. So no
:30:43. > :30:47.EU, which comes back to the a reform European Union. So no
:30:47. > :30:49.It is past the report stage and comes back in November and we will
:30:49. > :30:53.be discussing it. The comes back in November and we will
:30:53. > :30:57.Labour, will have an opportunity to comes back in November and we will
:30:57. > :31:00.support what the British people want. Lots may have changed.
:31:00. > :31:03.support what the British people would be a Red Line for any future
:31:03. > :31:04.support what the British people coalition government question mark
:31:04. > :31:10.support what the British people we are clear that it is time to have
:31:10. > :31:14.a say. You will know from our manifesto. What is wrong with yes or
:31:14. > :31:16.a say. You will know from our no? I cannot write the manifesto for
:31:16. > :31:21.2015. You are asking me to project no? I cannot write the manifesto for
:31:21. > :31:23.beyond that and see in advance the election result and carry
:31:23. > :31:26.beyond that and see in advance the negotiations that are yet to come.
:31:26. > :31:28.beyond that and see in advance the I'm just trying to work out how
:31:28. > :31:31.beyond that and see in advance the much... I know you are committed but
:31:31. > :31:39.beyond that and see in advance the she won't tell me. Let's move on.
:31:39. > :31:41.Your party has been described she won't tell me. Let's move on.
:31:41. > :31:44.nasty and blinkered. What do you she won't tell me. Let's move on.
:31:44. > :31:49.feel when he says that? she won't tell me. Let's move on.
:31:49. > :31:54.interested in helping the most vulnerable people in society.
:31:54. > :31:57.interested in helping the most think we're doing all that and more.
:31:57. > :32:00.interested in helping the most And it is a shame that that
:32:00. > :32:02.interested in helping the most was used because we have made so
:32:02. > :32:05.interested in helping the most much progress together. Are you
:32:05. > :32:07.interested in helping the most getting to the end of your
:32:07. > :32:18.interested in helping the most with Mr King? I do not think it is
:32:18. > :32:22.terribly helpful for any Cabinet with Mr King? I do not think it is
:32:22. > :32:24.minister to make comments like that. with Mr King? I do not think it is
:32:24. > :32:30.What I would say is that Nick Clegg with Mr King? I do not think it is
:32:30. > :32:36.is the leader of the Lib Dems and with Mr King? I do not think it is
:32:36. > :32:44.entitled to have a view on it himself. Look at these figures on
:32:44. > :32:47.party membership. Why has your party lost half of its members
:32:47. > :32:50.party membership. Why has your party Cameron became leader? I would like
:32:50. > :32:53.party membership. Why has your party it to be more. But I think the
:32:53. > :32:56.party membership. Why has your party has changed. People do not rush out
:32:56. > :32:58.and join political parties has changed. People do not rush out
:32:58. > :33:02.used to. Instead they support has changed. People do not rush out
:33:02. > :33:07.different ways. If I has changed. People do not rush out
:33:07. > :33:11.number of people who give to has changed. People do not rush out
:33:11. > :33:14.party in different ways, through donations for example, through
:33:14. > :33:18.friend memberships. If you include donations for example, through
:33:18. > :33:25.that that figure goes back up. donations for example, through
:33:25. > :33:31.your membership has fallen by 50% at a time when UKIP has doubled. I do
:33:31. > :33:35.not want to to misinterpret what a time when UKIP has doubled. I do
:33:35. > :33:43.want to say. It is important to a time when UKIP has doubled. I do
:33:43. > :33:47.members. I think we will have done that by the time of the next
:33:47. > :33:54.election. But one statistic of interest, in the last election I had
:33:54. > :33:57.a 17,000 majority in my own constituency. The difference was
:33:57. > :34:02.a 17,000 majority in my own had 1000 people helping me to
:34:02. > :34:07.deliver leaflets and knock on the doors. The Conservative party has
:34:07. > :34:13.changed. We now have an army of people, volunteers who
:34:13. > :34:18.changed. We now have an army of necessarily traditional members. The
:34:18. > :34:20.changed. We now have an army of days when you expect people to give
:34:20. > :34:24.changed. We now have an army of you £25, before you accept their
:34:24. > :34:28.changed. We now have an army of support, those days have passed. You
:34:28. > :34:32.spoke about your most vulnerable marginal seats. This is
:34:32. > :34:38.spoke about your most vulnerable Michael Ashcroft. The
:34:38. > :34:40.spoke about your most vulnerable marginal seats that you will be
:34:40. > :34:48.defending. Labour is way up, you are marginal seats that you will be
:34:48. > :34:54.way down and UKIP is also up. What is happening, the Lib Dem Mo --
:34:54. > :34:58.way down and UKIP is also up. What are moving to Labour. And
:34:58. > :34:59.disillusioned are moving to Labour. And
:34:59. > :35:05.moving to UKIP. If these figures are moving to Labour. And
:35:05. > :35:08.came at an election he would lose 32 of these 40 seats. The point about
:35:08. > :35:13.any opinion poll is that of these 40 seats. The point about
:35:13. > :35:17.perhaps accurate at the moment it is taken. We are now in a position
:35:17. > :35:18.perhaps accurate at the moment it is where the economy has turned the
:35:18. > :35:29.corner. The right thing to do was where the economy has turned the
:35:29. > :35:34.deal with the deficit. The people being asked about these things,
:35:34. > :35:35.deal with the deficit. The people will be interested in
:35:35. > :35:36.deal with the deficit. The people standard of living. Their mortgage
:35:36. > :35:41.payments. Why are you doing standard of living. Their mortgage
:35:41. > :35:49.the marginal seats? National standard of living. Their mortgage
:35:49. > :35:52.you are kind of nip and tuck with Labour. Well if that is the
:35:52. > :35:56.you are kind of nip and tuck with come 2015, people will see that
:35:56. > :35:58.you are kind of nip and tuck with government has stuck to its guns.
:35:58. > :36:00.you are kind of nip and tuck with did not go for more borrowing and
:36:00. > :36:03.spending. And the record did not go for more borrowing and
:36:03. > :36:06.demonstrates that the last thing you did not go for more borrowing and
:36:06. > :36:11.want to do is give the car did not go for more borrowing and
:36:11. > :36:17.to the people who crashed it in the first place. Lynton Crosby at this
:36:17. > :36:21.away day of Conservative MPs, his one message was to go all out and
:36:21. > :36:24.away day of Conservative MPs, his attack Ed Miliband. It is
:36:24. > :36:26.away day of Conservative MPs, his be a nasty election.
:36:26. > :36:30.away day of Conservative MPs, his actually not true. We are going to
:36:30. > :36:36.focus on his policies, if he actually not true. We are going to
:36:36. > :36:39.announces some. Everything we have seen so far suggests it would mean
:36:39. > :36:47.more borrowing and spending. The seen so far suggests it would mean
:36:47. > :36:53.shadow chancellor said we would be ruthless, just a few months later,
:36:53. > :36:55.shadow chancellor said we would be 27.9 pounds of extra spending
:36:55. > :37:04.shadow chancellor said we would be committed by Labour. These are your
:37:04. > :37:07.figures. I will speak to you about that during the Tory conference.
:37:07. > :37:09.It's just after 11:30. You're that during the Tory conference.
:37:09. > :37:10.watching the Sunday Politics. that during the Tory conference.
:37:10. > :37:14.up in just over 20 minutes. that during the Tory conference.
:37:14. > :37:15.Campbell gives that during the Tory conference.
:37:15. > :37:16.not-too-positive review Good morning. I'm Julia George.
:37:16. > :37:37.McBride's memoirs. Until then, Good morning. I'm Julia George.
:37:37. > :37:39.Coming up later, as the Labour Party met for their annual conference, we
:37:39. > :37:47.will speak to party leader, Ed Miliband. Is scrapping the bedroom
:37:47. > :37:55.tax a vote winner? Johnny today are the Green leader of the Brighton
:37:55. > :38:00.Council, Jason Kitcat and labour's prospective parliamentary contender
:38:00. > :38:04.Sarah Owen. Let us talk about those policies, free school meals from the
:38:04. > :38:08.Lib Dems and Labour promises to scrap the bedroom tax. The party
:38:08. > :38:14.conference season is bringing out some interesting promises. What
:38:14. > :38:16.about the smaller parties? We saw the Greens last weekend, this week
:38:16. > :38:23.it is a tonne of UKIP. Jason, you must be jealous, as in other smaller
:38:23. > :38:28.party, are you not jealous as to what they have achieved? Most
:38:28. > :38:32.European countries have had this far right party for some time, this is
:38:32. > :38:41.just a natural evolution of the breakdown of the big party machine
:38:41. > :38:45.politics. They are definitely far right and they are protest vote.
:38:45. > :38:54.They are not serious about taking power. How many MPs have we lost?
:38:54. > :38:57.Let us consider other things. UKIP has split
:38:57. > :39:04.Let us consider other things. UKIP What does that mean for Ed Miliband?
:39:04. > :39:11.Since the elections of 2010, we have increased our share of the vote. We
:39:11. > :39:15.have seen a 42% share of the vote from Labour and Hastings and Rye. We
:39:15. > :39:20.have no measure as to how people will vote nationally. There are
:39:20. > :39:25.lot of disaffected Tory Party members going to UKIP. It is a lot
:39:25. > :39:32.of the same voters that would have voted for the Green Party.
:39:32. > :39:37.It is an issue that has had voices big and small united across Kent, to
:39:37. > :39:41.try and stop the closure of 23 out of 97 of the county's children
:39:41. > :39:45.centres. Parents and under—fives were joined by two Tory MPs who see
:39:45. > :39:50.these vital facilities must be saved. After three years of cuts,
:39:50. > :39:55.the council must still make huge savings up to £240 million. Can we
:39:55. > :40:01.expect all of our services to remain untouched? Bhavani Vadde looks at
:40:01. > :40:08.the argument. Moving and shaking. This is drop—in
:40:08. > :40:13.session aloes toddlers to let off some steam. It is taking place in
:40:13. > :40:19.Folkestone at the local village centre. Less than one mile away as
:40:19. > :40:23.the Folkestone early year centre that offers similar activities. Kent
:40:23. > :40:27.County Council says it just longer afford to run both of them because
:40:27. > :40:32.it must save millions of pounds over the next few years. That is ten
:40:32. > :40:35.times the number of people using the centre have borrowed books from the
:40:35. > :40:39.local library and the council says when resources are taped it must
:40:39. > :40:43.prioritise. These are tough decisions that must be made. I did
:40:43. > :40:48.not come into politics to close children centres, but we have cut as
:40:48. > :40:52.much fat from the bone as we can and we must look at the quality and
:40:52. > :40:58.availability of services for those who desperately need them. Sure
:40:58. > :41:03.Start centres like this were set up in the late 90s by the Labour Party
:41:03. > :41:07.to provide support for parents. The council says the grand for every
:41:07. > :41:11.years intervention has been cut by one third over the last four years.
:41:11. > :41:18.Kent County Council points out it has already cut £340 million from
:41:18. > :41:25.budgets and this week councillors meant —— met to discuss further
:41:25. > :41:28.millions of pounds worth of cuts over the next three years. It is
:41:28. > :41:33.front line services like this that are bearing the brunt. Many parents
:41:33. > :41:39.are upset but others understand the need for changes. I would not want
:41:39. > :41:46.any services to be cut ideally, but as long as they can insurance that
:41:46. > :41:54.—— we can ensure us that they will receive the same level of support,
:41:54. > :42:00.then perhaps it may work. Some of these children's centres must be
:42:00. > :42:05.used more than others. You do not need to keep things that are not
:42:05. > :42:10.being used. This one is being used, however, and it is popular. The
:42:10. > :42:16.consultation over the changes ends next week. It has taken one year to
:42:16. > :42:19.examine how children's centres are used. 16 new centres will open near
:42:19. > :42:25.families that need greater support. The number of health visitors will
:42:25. > :42:30.be doubled to carry out more visit at home. Despite these insurances,
:42:30. > :42:34.there have been high—profile campaigns over the closures. Some
:42:34. > :42:38.Kent MPs are fighting against cuts to services on their patch at voting
:42:38. > :42:43.for austerity measures and Parliament. MPs will always seek to
:42:43. > :42:49.defend their constituents and against council led cuts. They make
:42:49. > :42:53.themselves popular in their constituencies and they know what
:42:53. > :42:57.the outcome will be, the cuts will stop go ahead anyway. It is nothing
:42:57. > :43:03.more than posturing. Some in the local govern and believes this does
:43:03. > :43:07.not help. I would make a plea to parliamentarians and MPs to look at
:43:07. > :43:10.the register funding situation that local authorities are facing. Please
:43:10. > :43:17.listen to us because we cannot protect services at their current
:43:17. > :43:19.level unless we get more funding. Kent is not the only authority that
:43:19. > :43:25.has had to make tough decisions. In East Sussex other children's
:43:25. > :43:32.services were merged. We do not have the luxury of affording the
:43:32. > :43:38.services. We must constantly on the most needy people and those who can
:43:38. > :43:41.benefit most from that. Of course, there is criticism, because at the
:43:41. > :43:46.end of the day people have come to expect everything to be done for
:43:46. > :43:50.them. We have a political choice to be met the —— to make based on the
:43:50. > :43:58.services that we have available to provide. If we do not do this we
:43:58. > :44:01.will have to do something else. As local governments across the South
:44:01. > :44:04.East struggle to balance the books, the tough funding decisions they
:44:04. > :44:10.have to face and not proving popular. What real alternatives do
:44:10. > :44:16.they have? Gordon Henderson as a Kent MP that
:44:16. > :44:22.is fighting to save Woodgrove to an's centre. I asked him about his
:44:22. > :44:32.concerns. # Woodgrove Children's Centre. We are trying to get early
:44:32. > :44:36.intervention for parents. The parents it is reaching and getting a
:44:36. > :44:41.good service and the 600 children and that school will lose out, what
:44:41. > :44:49.we must do is reach beyond those two other people. Ifo that every closed
:44:49. > :44:53.Woodgrove and we are not reaching at the moment, will never reach them.
:44:53. > :45:00.Why do you think this centre in particular need saving because Kent
:45:00. > :45:04.County Council says two thirds of the people using the Woodgrove use
:45:04. > :45:12.other children's centres as well. Some of these are close by. Don't
:45:12. > :45:16.forget the people that he must reach and that use the centres often do
:45:16. > :45:19.not have their own transport and we must ask ourselves, why are they
:45:19. > :45:24.going to other centres? They are going to them because they offer
:45:24. > :45:32.services that Woodgrove doesn't. We must increase the services at
:45:32. > :45:40.Woodgrove. What services are invaluable at Woodgrove? They have a
:45:40. > :45:44.community chef going into that centre to show parents how they can
:45:44. > :45:48.provide nutritious meals at a cheaper cost to their children.
:45:48. > :45:53.does not have to happen at Woodgrove, and it does happen
:45:53. > :45:57.elsewhere because that chef goes to other places. The point I'm making
:45:57. > :46:02.is that Kent County Council have recognised and given a commitment
:46:02. > :46:06.that they will not cut any centres in areas of high deprivation such as
:46:06. > :46:13.the ones I have mentioned. Woodgrove, out of the centres in my
:46:13. > :46:19.area, it is one of those and one of the most deprived areas. Would you
:46:19. > :46:26.be happy if another centre closed instead? What is the best scenario?
:46:26. > :46:32.You want that one to stay open, but that means another one may have to
:46:32. > :46:37.close. Do you care about all of the children in Kent or just the ones in
:46:37. > :46:42.your constituency? I am the Member of Parliament for its city born and
:46:42. > :46:45.Sheppey. I care about all the children in Kent but I must
:46:45. > :46:54.concentrate my efforts on my own constituents. It is not posturing, I
:46:54. > :46:59.can about my constituents. Why not take the fight to the government?
:46:59. > :47:02.Kent County Council has already met hundreds of millions of pounds of
:47:02. > :47:05.cuts and they are talking about making even more. Have you as David
:47:05. > :47:13.Cameron white he has broken his pre—election promise and looking
:47:13. > :47:17.after Sure Start children's centres? You could be taken as arguments to
:47:17. > :47:23.central government instead of Kent County Council. I'm tend to write to
:47:23. > :47:30.David Cameron to remind him about that promise. We had questions in
:47:30. > :47:33.Parliament last week with the opposition asking the same
:47:33. > :47:41.question. The response we got from government was that no Sure Start
:47:41. > :47:43.centres are closing, what they are doing our amalgamating or
:47:43. > :47:50.rationalising the Administration. You believe that the government is
:47:50. > :47:52.not coming clean on this? Some parts of the government do not understand
:47:52. > :47:57.what is actually happening on the ground. I will be making it clear
:47:57. > :48:08.that the centres are closing and that if we are going to be honest we
:48:08. > :48:11.must explain why they are closing and that is because of financial
:48:11. > :48:14.reasons. We must look at Kent as a whole and there must be areas more
:48:14. > :48:19.affluent than my own constituency where children centres are
:48:19. > :48:24.continuing. Is your fight with Kent County Council or the government? I
:48:24. > :48:26.would say the government. Jason Kitcat, you have kept all of
:48:26. > :48:32.your children's centres open so far, will they always stay open under the
:48:32. > :48:39.Green Party? I would hope so, but it is unforeseeable because of this
:48:39. > :48:42.level of austerity and cuts. Councils will be cut until 2020 and
:48:42. > :48:48.this current government and the Labour Party. Gordon Henderson has
:48:48. > :48:58.finally realised the problem is with the central government. Did you find
:48:58. > :49:03.that a revelation? Privately many of us feel that this is an
:49:03. > :49:09.unsustainable situation. 28% of cuts are being taken out of Whitehall.
:49:09. > :49:15.Century have been in control of Brighton and Hove city, you cannot
:49:15. > :49:19.blame all the problems and asperity. Parking charges, problems
:49:19. > :49:25.with the bin men. You cannot always blame austerity and the government.
:49:25. > :49:30.The first time running a principal authority, mistakes will be made.
:49:30. > :49:33.But I think we have kept three quarters of our manifesto promises
:49:33. > :49:38.halfway through our term which shows that we are committed to our
:49:38. > :49:42.election commitments. Has it been more difficult than you expected to
:49:42. > :49:47.be in power? It is a learning process. There is a long history of
:49:47. > :49:52.central government passing on the pain to local government. We sought
:49:52. > :49:56.the local MP trying to do that and blaming the council, the beastie was
:49:56. > :49:59.honest to confess and say that we have a government who
:50:00. > :50:05.centralising and cutting again and again. Pro testing at council level
:50:05. > :50:12.will only take you so far because the fundamental system is broken.
:50:12. > :50:15.Sarah Owen, we talked about East Sussex and children's centres. What
:50:15. > :50:22.is your understanding as to what is happening? They are looking to cut
:50:22. > :50:25.£1 million from children's centres. I do not agree with what Kent are
:50:25. > :50:32.doing with the number of cuts, at least they have been upfront about
:50:32. > :50:38.what we are cutting. We heard from the MPV, but he did not say how they
:50:38. > :50:43.were going to do this. They should have been upfront about what they
:50:43. > :50:47.were doing and double break and have kept their children's centres open
:50:47. > :50:53.they are no longer universally available to everyone. Essentially
:50:53. > :50:58.every level of government is about deciding where the axe will fall.
:50:58. > :51:04.That is what governing is about. Clearly efficiencies are there to be
:51:04. > :51:08.had. We must deliver services as good if not better than before for
:51:08. > :51:14.less money, but that can only go so far. Sadly that is part of what is
:51:14. > :51:18.happening in government and that is why I am worried that until 2020 all
:51:18. > :51:23.the parties in Westminster will continue down this line. The Labour
:51:23. > :51:30.Party met in Brighton and they will be thinking hard about the 7th of
:51:30. > :51:35.May 2015. It is polling day for the next general election. The Labour
:51:35. > :51:43.Party lost all seven of their seats and this area. Louise Stewart asked
:51:43. > :51:49.whether the Labour Party know what voters want to Ed Miliband. We are
:51:49. > :51:54.talking to the people in Brighton at our conference about the things that
:51:54. > :51:59.matter. We are talking about issues like energy prices, the bed and tax,
:51:59. > :52:04.real fears, how we can raise wages, fundamental issues for people in the
:52:04. > :52:08.South East. I hope that when people see our conference they will notice
:52:08. > :52:13.we are talking about the issues they care about. On the issue of the
:52:13. > :52:17.spare room subsidy that you call the bedroom tax, you said if you were on
:52:17. > :52:22.power you would repeal that, how can you afford to do this pledge? People
:52:22. > :52:28.will say it is the same old Labour Party, spending money you do not
:52:28. > :52:34.have. We are closing the particular tax loopholes and a hedge fund that
:52:34. > :52:40.this government introduced. George Osborne's tax relief force and share
:52:40. > :52:46.transactions within the construction industry, that is a costed set of
:52:46. > :52:52.commitments to end the bedroom tax. Why are we ending it? It is unfair
:52:52. > :52:55.and hacking so many disabled people and tens of thousands of families
:52:55. > :52:58.across the South East. It is not working because families go behind
:52:58. > :53:04.on their rent and face election which is not good for the taxpayer.
:53:04. > :53:10.We are determined to tackle the cost of living crisis and this is just
:53:10. > :53:14.the first episode of what you will see at our conference. Some in the
:53:14. > :53:18.South East would say that the bedroom tax affects relatively few
:53:18. > :53:21.people in the South East, other concerns are things like the rise in
:53:21. > :53:29.real fears, people struggling to afford to get to work and the South
:53:29. > :53:37.East is the engine of the economy. Absolutely, we will talk about those
:53:37. > :53:41.issues at our conference. Life is getting worse for ordinary families.
:53:41. > :53:45.The Labour Party will be addressing those concerns and talking about
:53:45. > :53:50.real fears and energy prices. Fair taxes and all of those issues that I
:53:50. > :53:55.think are the bread and butter issues for those people. We want to
:53:55. > :53:57.see poverty is addressing those issues and I hope that
:53:57. > :54:05.look at our conference and the CBR looking at their issues. People in
:54:05. > :54:09.the South East who are struggling to pay for their homes, people who
:54:09. > :54:13.cannot afford their homes, will see why should we be paying more to help
:54:13. > :54:18.people on benefits to pay for a spare room when they
:54:18. > :54:21.people on benefits to pay for a for our own accommodation. Two
:54:21. > :54:23.thirds of those affected by the bedroom tax are disabled. The whole
:54:23. > :54:26.idea of the bedroom tax was that people could move to other
:54:26. > :54:31.properties, but there are not properties available. It is not
:54:31. > :54:35.going to work, it is unfair and it is affecting the disabled. There
:54:35. > :54:39.people to not think it is a good idea. We must build more housing,
:54:39. > :54:45.including across the South East, that will be central to what we are
:54:45. > :54:47.plotting about at our conference. Unless we tackle the housing crisis
:54:47. > :54:54.we will not tackle the cost living crisis facing several
:54:54. > :54:58.families. The Labour Party has not been able to do it in the South
:54:58. > :55:02.East, you do not have one single MP. Labour will tackle the cost of
:55:02. > :55:07.living crisis facing you, we are on your side and will create an economy
:55:07. > :55:10.that works for you. We will tackle companies who overcharge you and
:55:10. > :55:14.have fever taxes. We have learnt lessons from the past and is
:55:14. > :55:20.formally on your side. Thank you, Ed Miliband.
:55:20. > :55:31.Sarah, we should vote Labour to repeal the bedroom tax. The bedroom
:55:31. > :55:34.tax is not a vote winner. The bedroom tax has been wholly
:55:34. > :55:40.unpopular with Andrew and I have spoken to. We all know someone who
:55:40. > :55:44.has lost out as a result of it or believe it is genuinely unfair to
:55:44. > :55:49.penalised disabled people. They need that space. When you stand on the
:55:49. > :55:55.doorstep of Hastings and right and you say you will repeal the bedroom
:55:55. > :56:00.tax, will you get a vote for that? And every house and knocked on that
:56:00. > :56:06.issue did come up. It is a huge issue but it is about the cost of
:56:06. > :56:12.living. Are you going to announce a living wage? We have done a lot of
:56:12. > :56:26.work on that. We have 15 councillors signed up to that. You think Ed
:56:26. > :56:30.Miliband has a vote winning isn't? It issues were positive. It is not a
:56:30. > :56:35.case of candy when in the South East, we have one in the South East
:56:35. > :56:38.and we have a lot of momentum. We have more Labour councillors than we
:56:38. > :56:42.have ever had before and he things and dry. There has not been a
:56:42. > :56:50.general election is —— general election since 2010, you must
:56:50. > :56:53.remember. We are working on campaigns for the Royal Mile and
:56:53. > :57:00.across the NHS. We are appealing to people across the. Let us look at
:57:00. > :57:04.the targets. The three Brighton and Hove constituencies are all in
:57:04. > :57:11.there. Jason, how do you keep eyeful told and the city? Labour has said
:57:11. > :57:12.that the conditions but I do not think people will forgive and forget
:57:12. > :57:21.as quickly as Ed Miliband would like. I believe Caroline Lucas has a
:57:21. > :57:27.great chance of holding her seat. Even with your reputation as a key
:57:27. > :57:35.or the grader? You are punishing the poorest. I do not agree. This is
:57:35. > :57:39.simply a tiny move from the problems inherited by the Labour Party. You
:57:39. > :57:43.will not compete against each other at the next election, but Sarah, you
:57:43. > :57:49.have described yourself as growing up as a socialist. Jason, you see
:57:49. > :57:56.the Green Party as the new socialist. I think Jason is more of
:57:56. > :58:08.a mangle! You have been described as that. I do not identify with that.
:58:08. > :58:16.There are no socialist sitting here. Here is a ruined up of this week's
:58:16. > :58:22.political events. West Sussex council's attempts to
:58:22. > :58:25.evict and the fracking protesters were flawed according to a High
:58:25. > :58:31.Court judge. The council will respect the ruling. Protesters are
:58:31. > :58:34.delighted. They better wake up because rural communities throughout
:58:34. > :58:41.Sussex and Kent will not stand for this policy. Sussex MP Tim Winton
:58:41. > :58:43.was criticised for saying that Sarah Teather the not produce a family and
:58:43. > :58:49.so did not understand. He said has comments were not
:58:49. > :58:52.personal. The these historic dockyard will become a World
:58:52. > :58:55.Heritage site by 2013. It will be put to public and the
:58:55. > :59:01.vision week. Something has been causing a stick and Tonbridge.
:59:01. > :59:07.This factory produced a sickly smell to waft across the town. It is a
:59:07. > :59:15.very pungent chemical and sweet smell. Although —— it is like a
:59:15. > :59:21.sweet factory has exploded. The council says the smells are not
:59:21. > :59:38.harmful. What a great description! Let us go
:59:38. > :59:44.back to fracking. The UKIP party are climate change deniers. They are
:59:44. > :59:55.very much against conservative and environmental issues. What about
:59:55. > :00:03.what Sarah Teather and Tim Leighton? That has no place in
:00:03. > :00:09.modern politics. That level of misogyny and sexism is not on. Enjoy
:00:09. > :00:13.the party conference, we look forward to hearing what that pledge
:00:13. > :00:18.from Ed Miliband will be. Join us next week. My thanks to our guests.
:00:18. > :00:32.Natalie will be here next week. Goodbye.
:00:32. > :00:41.my youth. The halcyon days of the 2000s, when the warring Blairite and
:00:41. > :00:44.Brownite tribes fought over who should run the Labour Party. Gordon
:00:44. > :00:46.Brown's chief spin doctor Damian should run the Labour Party. Gordon
:00:46. > :00:48.Brown's chief spin doctor Damian McBride - McPoison, or worse, to his
:00:48. > :00:57.enemies - has published his memoirs, timed for maximum impact in the
:00:57. > :00:58.enemies - has published his memoirs, of Labour's Conference. They detail
:00:58. > :01:02.how Mr McBride briefed against colleagues, brought down Cabinet
:01:02. > :01:06.Ministers, that is - and fought tooth and nail to promote the man he
:01:06. > :01:13.called "the greatest man he ever met" - Gordon Brown. Joining us
:01:13. > :01:14.called "the greatest man he ever is Tony Blair's former Director
:01:14. > :01:20.called "the greatest man he ever Communications, Alastair Campbell.
:01:20. > :01:28.You are angry about what he has Communications, Alastair Campbell.
:01:28. > :01:35.in this book. Why is that. It is partly the fact that he has done it
:01:35. > :01:38.in a way that will be -- will be damaging to the Labour Party at
:01:38. > :01:41.in a way that will be -- will be time. But also because of the lies
:01:41. > :01:51.that he told at the time that he now communications and trying to hold
:01:51. > :01:58.the thing together, build the team. There was also Charlie Whelan and
:01:58. > :02:03.others. And that job was made more difficult than it should have been.
:02:03. > :02:07.I used to challenge Gordon Brown about it. And there came a stage
:02:07. > :02:15.where I said if Whelan does not about it. And there came a stage
:02:15. > :02:20.I will go. And when Damian McBride was on the scene I was clear that I
:02:20. > :02:26.was not going to have anything to do with him. Because of what he is
:02:26. > :02:29.was not going to have anything to do admitting to, I think they played
:02:29. > :02:34.quite a significant part in pushing Labour out of power. Because the
:02:34. > :02:40.public were being fed by them, this public were being fed by them, this
:02:40. > :02:47.narrative, the whole time. That Blair was useless, Charles Clarke
:02:47. > :02:51.was useless. And I think that we where the government and had very
:02:51. > :02:58.good ministers trying to do big things for the country. I said this
:02:58. > :03:04.morning it was like being a foot tall team were on the pitch you
:03:04. > :03:07.morning it was like being a foot your own players kicking the star
:03:07. > :03:10.players. That is why I am angry about it because I think they helped
:03:10. > :03:17.usher in a conservative government. If we had all stuck together I think
:03:17. > :03:25.did not win the last election, that is a reasonable point. But surely
:03:25. > :03:30.undermine Tony Blair and to promote their man, Gordon Brown. It is
:03:30. > :03:39.inconceivable then that Gordon Brown did not know about it. Well in spite
:03:39. > :03:42.reasonably good relationship with Gordon Brown. I used to challenge
:03:42. > :03:50.him a lot about what Whelan was doing. He would always say, I will
:03:51. > :03:57.sort it out. Another thing that annoys me is this sense put forward
:03:57. > :04:03.by the right wing media that there was this sense of equivalence.
:04:03. > :04:10.People like Steve who I have known for years, there is not a single
:04:10. > :04:14.journalist with the very occasional exception where I lost my temper,
:04:14. > :04:20.who would honestly be able to tell you that I ever breathed against
:04:20. > :04:28.ministers. That was my golden rule. People say you were the forerunner.
:04:28. > :04:41.I know it was not the case. One People say you were the forerunner.
:04:41. > :04:52.the reasons why I do despise what they did, the whole spin thing which
:04:52. > :05:02.associated with, once I wrote a actually within the government,
:05:02. > :05:03.associated with, once I wrote a had a principle of maximum openness
:05:03. > :05:08.and trust. Anyone could come to had a principle of maximum openness
:05:08. > :05:14.morning meetings on condition that what was discussed their state as
:05:14. > :05:16.part of the team. I had to say to Gordon Brown, your people are not
:05:16. > :05:22.coming. Because I knew where it Gordon Brown, your people are not
:05:22. > :05:26.coming from. Did you know that the time but Charles Clarke and others
:05:26. > :05:31.were effectively being destroyed from within the Labour government? I
:05:31. > :05:39.certainly knew that they thought that. I did know journalists telling
:05:39. > :05:50.me that that was what was happening. Ultimately, this is why I never
:05:50. > :05:57.me that that was what was happening. leaders, it is ultimately up to
:05:57. > :06:01.me that that was what was happening. litre. Possibly in a different age
:06:01. > :06:04.Gordon Brown would have been an amazing Prime Minister. He was a
:06:04. > :06:11.great chancellor. But he had a flaw, this need for truly horrible
:06:11. > :06:14.people to be around him doing truly horrible things in politics and
:06:14. > :06:18.giving him and the Labour Party horrible things in politics and
:06:18. > :06:28.politics a bad name. That is why I'm still angry about Damian McBride.
:06:28. > :06:32.What do you make of it? The current administration is a contrast. We
:06:32. > :06:38.have rival factions occupying the same offices but they still get
:06:38. > :06:41.have rival factions occupying the The only time they have a row is
:06:41. > :06:44.when something really big happens. But with that one party in Downing
:06:44. > :06:50.Street there was fighting the whole time. Did Ed Balls know about this.
:06:50. > :07:03.I would assume so. I spoke with time. Did Ed Balls know about this.
:07:03. > :07:13.about it at the time. He told me at the time that he had spoken about it
:07:13. > :07:18.with Gordon Brown. So I think there was a concern from within that camp
:07:18. > :07:28.about some of these activities at equivalence, in life you expect
:07:28. > :07:28.about some of these activities at see that there is full on both
:07:28. > :07:34.sides. But I do not buy it in this see that there is full on both
:07:34. > :07:37.case. If you look at the testimonies see that there is full on both
:07:37. > :07:42.over the years, what you can surmise about the character of Gordon Brown
:07:42. > :07:48.and of Tony Blair, it was ultimately driven by Gordon Brown and the
:07:48. > :07:52.people around him. The Blairites did things but they did then by way
:07:52. > :07:56.people around him. The Blairites did retaliation rather than initiation.
:07:56. > :08:01.The one-time when I did lose it retaliation rather than initiation.
:08:01. > :08:03.the whole psychological force thing. That came at the end of a period
:08:03. > :08:09.when we were relentlessly being That came at the end of a period
:08:09. > :08:12.in by Charlie Whelan and his gang of journalists. I would go along to
:08:12. > :08:20.colleagues would be there and I journalists. I would go along to
:08:20. > :08:25.had to sit there and not hit back. Saying I cannot believe Gordon Brown
:08:25. > :08:28.would have anything to do with this. You get to the stage where your
:08:28. > :08:29.would have anything to do with this. credibility is on the line. Coming
:08:29. > :08:40.promotion of alcohol awareness. credibility is on the line. Coming
:08:40. > :08:44.before that the Labour Party, you never had to deal with this in
:08:44. > :08:48.opposition because you were pretty far ahead in the polls by midterm.
:08:48. > :08:57.This time that is not the case. far ahead in the polls by midterm.
:08:57. > :09:04.is surprisingly narrow. What advice would you give to Ed Miliband? To
:09:04. > :09:09.keep his head out side of this bubble but it's all about him. And
:09:09. > :09:16.to use this week to really speak to the British people about himself,
:09:16. > :09:23.particularly the kind of policy agenda he is shaping for the future.
:09:23. > :09:28.And start to heart -- start to hit the Tories hard. They're not pop,
:09:28. > :09:34.they're not competent. They're screwing up the health service.
:09:34. > :09:36.they're not competent. They're yet they are neck and neck. I would
:09:36. > :09:43.say that the whole Shadow Cabinet understand that you win elections by
:09:43. > :09:50.wanting to win elections every minute of every day. There is too
:09:50. > :09:55.much complacency. A small lead now you have to grow that. You do that
:09:55. > :10:04.with energy and conviction and policy. Tony Blair had a huge pole
:10:04. > :10:11.bead in the run-up to 1997. We were winning seat where we had not even
:10:11. > :10:13.campaigned and he was saying, why celebrate because we have not won
:10:13. > :10:17.yet. You are promoting your alcohol celebrate because we have not won
:10:17. > :10:19.yet. You are promoting your alcohol awareness campaign. Perhaps the
:10:19. > :10:28.party conference is not the best place to do that! That is one reason
:10:28. > :10:34.why I am doing that. I'm hosting probably the only alcohol free
:10:34. > :10:41.reception of the week! There is nothing worse than a convert, I
:10:41. > :10:47.reception of the week! There is that. But I travel a lot. I travel
:10:47. > :10:57.around the world and Britain has a something we should be ashamed of.
:10:57. > :11:04.Why is that, is it cultural? I think it is historical. But I dig David
:11:04. > :11:16.Cameron was right to go for minimum unit pricing and wrong to do a
:11:16. > :11:19.reversal. 6% of alcoholics get treatment. I expect that drugs are a
:11:19. > :11:26.problem but we spent £2 billion treatment. I expect that drugs are a
:11:26. > :11:28.100,000 problem drug takers and treatment. I expect that drugs are a
:11:28. > :11:41.million on 1.6 million problem have written this book about a young
:11:41. > :11:45.million on 1.6 million problem alcoholic, a teenager. And it is in
:11:45. > :11:48.the first person. People could think you are writing about yourself.
:11:48. > :11:56.did you choose a teenage girl? Well did you choose a teenage girl? Well
:11:56. > :12:06.partly, I dedicated this to the Southampton. He told me when he
:12:06. > :12:13.started his career that his patience was split nine to one, men to women
:12:13. > :12:21.and it is now 50 - 50. They're getting younger and younger. One
:12:21. > :12:27.doctor looking after me said I will take you around this hospital and
:12:27. > :12:33.the problems of alcohol are in every single ward. Not just accident and
:12:33. > :12:41.emergency. I watched the foot all, advertisements for gambling and
:12:41. > :12:52.advertising. How have we allowed this to happen, ? We are just awash
:12:52. > :12:59.with it. What we did I think on Availability and price either too
:12:59. > :13:05.means by which you can bring this down. And the country that has had
:13:05. > :13:17.the biggest success on this is Russia, bizarrely. Thank you very
:13:17. > :13:22.much for that. That's all for today. Thanks to all our guests. I'll be
:13:23. > :13:26.with live coverage of Labour Party Conference, including the speech
:13:26. > :13:27.from the man who wants to be the next Chancellor, Ed Balls. Remember