:00:20. > :00:41.BBC 1 888
:00:41. > :01:45.With me are a trio of top political commentators. All three will be
:01:45. > :01:48.tweeting their thoughts, or in some cases just their thought through the
:01:48. > :01:55.show, using the hashtag #bbcsp. cases just their thought through the
:01:55. > :02:01.Conservative Party conference gets afternoon. We have already been
:02:01. > :02:06.bombarded with a series of policy announcements, a tax break for
:02:06. > :02:09.married couples of up to £200 per year, more money on life extending
:02:09. > :02:13.cancer treatments and, last night, the news that the second stage of
:02:13. > :02:18.the Chancellor's Help To Buy scheme brought forward from the start of
:02:18. > :02:24.next year. David Cameron says it is all about helping hard-working
:02:24. > :02:32.people. Right now, you can't get, 95% mortgage. That means a typical
:02:32. > :02:34.family with two people earning 20,000, 25,000, they are being
:02:34. > :02:43.asked, to buy an average house, 20,000, 25,000, they are being
:02:43. > :02:46.mortgage payment, but they can't get the mortgage. They can't buy their
:02:46. > :02:50.flat or house. As Prime Minister, I'm not going to stand back while
:02:50. > :02:51.people's aspirations to get on the housing ladder, to own their own
:02:51. > :02:57.flat or home, is being trashed. housing ladder, to own their own
:02:57. > :03:02.is why we need to act. A predictable attempt by party leadership to
:03:02. > :03:05.kick-start the conference with eye-catching policies. The polls
:03:05. > :03:10.show a big bounce for Ed Miliband and the Labour Party, with decent
:03:10. > :03:26.numbers for UKIP. What do party councillors as they travel to their
:03:26. > :03:36.For the Conservatives this weekend, conference, and as a scene setter we
:03:36. > :03:42.asked ComRes to survey councillors are Finland and Wales. Councillors
:03:42. > :03:45.asked ComRes to survey councillors like Tom, packing for conference at
:03:45. > :03:48.home in Wellingborough. Immigration is an issue for him. He thinks there
:03:48. > :03:55.are pros and cons. But we found is an issue for him. He thinks there
:03:55. > :04:02.immigration has had a negative reflects into this wider issue of
:04:02. > :04:08.our relationship with Europe. People possible influx of ovarian and
:04:08. > :04:18.Romania emigrants. Obviously the issue of Europe is very big. --
:04:18. > :04:23.Ukrainian. His colleagues in Corby are worried about the rise of the UK
:04:23. > :04:26.Independence Party. In our survey, nearly a quarter of Conservative
:04:26. > :04:31.councillors thought that their party should make a pact with UKIP. The
:04:31. > :04:40.concern is, yes, will they take If that happens, maybe we don't
:04:40. > :04:43.concern is, yes, will they take back in. Maybe a partnership is
:04:43. > :04:50.concern is, yes, will they take way to go. It depends what they
:04:50. > :04:50.concern is, yes, will they take talking about them. A pact? Depends
:04:50. > :05:06.what they say, anything is possible. What would you like to see? Ideally,
:05:06. > :05:11.from my point of view, a national pact. David Cameron arrived in
:05:11. > :05:14.Manchester last night. Around the same time as these activists from
:05:14. > :05:23.London. I broke the news to them that in our survey just 26% of Tory
:05:23. > :05:28.councillors think that the prime ministers in touch with the lives of
:05:28. > :05:32.ordinary people. The same at all Conservatives, you don't judge
:05:32. > :05:34.people by their background. It's not where they come from, it is where
:05:34. > :05:38.they are going to. It is not a where they come from, it is where
:05:38. > :05:40.problem that he is a bit on the where they come from, it is where
:05:40. > :05:42.side? Cull you might describe him like that, I would not use those
:05:42. > :05:49.words. Explain your T-shirt, it like that, I would not use those
:05:49. > :05:54.phrase that a senior Cameron person is alleged to have used about you?
:05:54. > :05:57.It is a humorous way of letting is alleged to have used about you?
:05:57. > :06:00.party now that we are here to say important. We are not going away any
:06:01. > :06:06.time soon. A sentiment you will important. We are not going away any
:06:06. > :06:09.a lot at this conference, because just 22% of councillors in our
:06:09. > :06:16.survey said that David Cameron was any good at listening to the people
:06:16. > :06:20.that work hard for his party. That was Adam. Joining me now from the
:06:21. > :06:26.Conservative Party conference in William Hague. Welcome to the Sunday
:06:26. > :06:33.Politics. Good morning. Over one in five Tory councillors in our survey
:06:33. > :06:36.support a pact with UKIP at the five Tory councillors in our survey
:06:36. > :06:39.election. Why do you think that five Tory councillors in our survey
:06:39. > :06:41.If it is one in five, it means a large majority did not want a pact
:06:41. > :06:46.with UKIP at the next election. large majority did not want a pact
:06:46. > :06:49.have noticed that UKIP, in local elections, has been receiving votes,
:06:49. > :06:52.some of which would otherwise have been for the Conservatives. I think
:06:52. > :06:58.we have to make sure that people election they are choosing between a
:06:58. > :07:01.Conservative and Labour Government, as David Cameron as Prime Minister
:07:01. > :07:07.or Ed Miliband. If people want to get a referendum on Europe, the
:07:07. > :07:07.or Ed Miliband. If people want to way to do that is to have David
:07:07. > :07:12.Cameron as Prime Minister. I think a Cameron as Prime Minister. I think a
:07:12. > :07:15.general election is different from the local government perspective. It
:07:15. > :07:19.is pretty unusual, some might say unprecedented, for a large chunk of
:07:19. > :07:23.one of the big parties in this country to want to go into coalition
:07:23. > :07:30.one of the big parties in this with a smaller party before an
:07:30. > :07:36.happened? Looking at your survey, three times as many didn't want
:07:36. > :07:38.happened? Looking at your survey, with statistics, you can highlight
:07:38. > :07:42.it whichever way around you want to. The point is, we are not having
:07:42. > :07:48.pacts with other parties, electoral pacts with other parties. You rule
:07:48. > :07:52.it out? That is not going to happen. What we do want is to have a pact
:07:52. > :07:55.it out? That is not going to happen. with the voters, if you like, as we
:07:55. > :07:59.have often done in the Conservative Party. We have won over the voters
:08:00. > :08:02.of other parties to support our policies and Prime Minister. That is
:08:02. > :08:05.important with those people that say important with those people that say
:08:05. > :08:08.they want to vote for UKIP. By default, they would produce a Labour
:08:08. > :08:13.government in the exact opposite of many of the things they intend,
:08:13. > :08:15.government in the exact opposite of Conservative and decide to vote
:08:15. > :08:18.government in the exact opposite of UKIP instead in a general election.
:08:18. > :08:24.That could help to produce a Labour government. The chairman of the
:08:24. > :08:29.That could help to produce a Labour committee, the elected voice of
:08:29. > :08:32.Conservative backbenchers, he says your party should spell out what had
:08:32. > :08:38.once back from the European Union before next year's European actions.
:08:38. > :08:44.Do you agree? We will be spelling out some things in the European
:08:44. > :08:53.elections. I will be talking about this later on today. For instance,
:08:53. > :08:58.European treaties the concept of ever closer union, a concept that in
:08:58. > :09:03.believed in. We would like that ever closer union, a concept that in
:09:03. > :09:07.consequences that would flow from that. We will be setting out the
:09:07. > :09:12.examples and principles of the changes we want to say. Certainly
:09:12. > :09:16.over the next year, not only before the European actions but the general
:09:16. > :09:21.election, if you are saying, let have the exact list of anything
:09:21. > :09:24.election, if you are saying, let negotiate, that is difficult because
:09:24. > :09:29.there will be a negotiation of a new deal in Europe if David Cameron
:09:29. > :09:35.there will be a negotiation of a new election. To some extent, that has
:09:35. > :09:38.to be negotiated. Only 11% of your own councillors feel that people in
:09:38. > :09:46.their area think that George Osborne is in touch with ordinary people.
:09:46. > :09:53.is not for me to explain why people say what they say in surveys. The
:09:53. > :09:56.important thing is what we are delivering for the country. What
:09:56. > :10:00.George Osborne is delivering his renewed economic growth. 1.4 million
:10:00. > :10:06.new jobs in the private sector, renewed economic growth. 1.4 million
:10:06. > :10:09.for hard-working people, by reducing the tax for 25 million of them.
:10:09. > :10:12.for hard-working people, by reducing Help To Buy scheme that we are
:10:12. > :10:16.highlighting today. That is what really matters to people, actually,
:10:16. > :10:20.I think you will find. Let's talk about helping ordinary people. Ed
:10:20. > :10:28.Miliband is guilty freeze energy prices. What are you going to do
:10:28. > :10:36.about energy prices, we already asked energy companies to put people
:10:36. > :10:45.on their lowest tariffs. This has not been amended. -- implemented.
:10:45. > :10:51.Why not? This is going to happen within this government. It is going
:10:51. > :10:58.to happen within this government when the... Why hasn't it happened
:10:58. > :11:01.now? People are suffering now from rising energy prices. It has not
:11:01. > :11:07.happened because my colleagues have been implimenting it. In the case of
:11:07. > :11:10.Ed Miliband's policy, if you are asking why it has not yet happened
:11:10. > :11:16.under this Government, it didn't even survive a few our's scrutiny in
:11:16. > :11:19.opposition. In a few hours he had to concede that if there was a big
:11:19. > :11:22.change in oil prices then the policy would not work. The trouble is,
:11:22. > :11:30.change in oil prices then the policy would dry up some of the investment
:11:30. > :11:33.in the energy industry. I don't think it is a credible promise.
:11:33. > :11:33.in the energy industry. I don't a party that presided over council
:11:33. > :11:40.tax bills doubling in the next a party that presided over council
:11:40. > :11:46.tax bills doubling in the next government, -- last government,
:11:46. > :11:48.tax bills doubling in the next not very credible. Why is George
:11:48. > :11:52.Osborne going against the European Well, we don't want to see the
:11:52. > :11:56.European treaties used in a way Well, we don't want to see the
:11:56. > :12:01.they should not be used. It's not necessarily over this particular
:12:01. > :12:04.issue. It is over the power that the European Union has over our lives
:12:04. > :12:08.and over this country. Can the bankers look after themselves? We
:12:08. > :12:11.should be able to decide those things in our own country. We have
:12:11. > :12:18.never signed up to such matters things in our own country. We have
:12:18. > :12:20.European institutions. If you allow one thing that wasn't meant to be
:12:20. > :12:24.decided to be decided, you find one thing that wasn't meant to be
:12:24. > :12:26.there are another ten or 20 things that affect many other people. We
:12:26. > :12:32.are very vigilant about what we that affect many other people. We
:12:32. > :12:36.competence creep, with the European Union taking more powers than it was
:12:36. > :12:41.meant to have. That is one of the referendum, do want a new deal in
:12:41. > :12:51.Europe. That is what we intend to institution, ICAP, fined for fixing
:12:51. > :12:56.the LIBOR rates. The founder of institution, ICAP, fined for fixing
:12:56. > :13:00.company has donated £5 million to your party. Shouldn't you give it
:13:00. > :13:08.back? Aren't you ashamed to accept that money? He has donated his own
:13:08. > :13:09.Which he made out of ICAP. As people have to other parties, people are
:13:09. > :13:13.free to do that and they should have to other parties, people are
:13:13. > :13:16.free to do that. I am not aware have to other parties, people are
:13:16. > :13:21.any plan for that to be repaid. Because you can't afford to. Let's
:13:21. > :13:25.recap this. We have seen Tory MPs parrot propaganda lines from the
:13:25. > :13:29.energy companies this week. We have the Chancellor going to court to
:13:29. > :13:33.fight for unlimited banker bonuses. We have a top Tory donor the centre
:13:33. > :13:35.fight for unlimited banker bonuses. of yet another city scandal. Ed
:13:35. > :13:39.Miliband is right when he says you lot are on the side of the vested
:13:39. > :13:46.interests so the rich and powerful, isn't he? Well, again, look at the
:13:46. > :13:52.record. I just did! 1.4 million extra jobs in the private sector, 25
:13:52. > :13:56.million people with a tax cut, a Help To Buy scheme which is going to
:13:56. > :14:03.help so many people, particularly young people have the house that
:14:03. > :14:08.future. Council tax bills held down, welfare reform so that it pays to
:14:08. > :14:10.work. Actually, this is a government achieving things for hard-working
:14:10. > :14:32.While President Laugharne he's talking about peace, the Iranians
:14:32. > :14:37.weapons programme. -- is talking. It would be hard to say from week
:14:37. > :14:44.to week whether it is speeding up continuing with it. That is why
:14:45. > :14:47.to week whether it is speeding up say the new message - the new words
:14:48. > :14:52.- from Iranian leadership are very welcome. I said that to the Foreign
:14:52. > :14:57.Minister in New York over the last few days but it is the actions that
:14:57. > :15:03.will count. At the moment, the nuclear programme continues. We
:15:03. > :15:06.negotiations on that and that will be a very important test as to
:15:06. > :15:12.whether actions will match the words. When will we know it if we
:15:12. > :15:17.are being strung along? He has strung as a long in the past as
:15:17. > :15:20.are being strung along? He has nuclear weapons negotiator. When
:15:20. > :15:24.will we know if he is not just doing that again? Over the next
:15:24. > :15:27.will we know if he is not just weeks, it will be a very important
:15:27. > :15:34.time. He has said there should be more transparency over the Iranian
:15:34. > :15:39.transparent in many regards at the moment. The atomic agency is asking
:15:40. > :15:47.for information that is not being given. One test is, in the coming
:15:47. > :15:51.information? The information that the international of authority is
:15:51. > :15:55.asking for about their nuclear programme. We will be able to form
:15:55. > :16:00.a view of this in the coming weeks or months. It is important we test
:16:00. > :16:09.their new willingness to talk to us important to find out whether they
:16:09. > :16:14.asking, is the nuclear programme really continuing? Are they really
:16:14. > :16:22.negotiations and offer something Speaking of being strung along,
:16:22. > :16:31.what sanctions would President Assad face if, in six months - the
:16:31. > :16:36.Year, Syria still has a chemical weapons arsenal. In the resolution
:16:36. > :16:44.we voted through the UN Security Council on Friday night, is the
:16:44. > :16:50.Council will take measures under Chapter seven of the UN Charter
:16:50. > :16:53.Council will take measures under the event of non-compliance. Does
:16:53. > :17:00.that allow full force? I did not catch that. Does that allow for
:17:00. > :17:05.Security Council resolution about Iraq, which most people concluded
:17:05. > :17:13.in not allow full force. It does not specify that. It talks about
:17:13. > :17:18.terms seven of the charter. That is a message of the whole UN Security
:17:18. > :17:24.Council that there will be measures - there will be consequences - if
:17:24. > :17:33.the Assad regime does not comply. has a big commitment. I have spent
:17:33. > :17:38.counterpart over the last week. Russia has said, this is something
:17:38. > :17:43.you will have to do. We will work with Russia and others very closely
:17:43. > :17:48.to check there is compliance will this resolution. Given the progress
:17:48. > :17:53.that has been made, you must be very glad that the British House of
:17:53. > :18:08.Commons stopped your rash to force against Syria. -- rush. The reason
:18:08. > :18:14.credible threat of military action. has happened is because there was a
:18:14. > :18:14.credible threat of military action. President Obama did not get it
:18:14. > :18:20.through Congress. They have not President Obama did not get it
:18:20. > :18:25.the vote in Congress. There is no other explanation as to why the
:18:25. > :18:29.policy changed. It was because there was a debate about military
:18:29. > :18:35.action in the West that the policy changed on theirs. That is why it
:18:35. > :18:39.changed. We were not in a rush for military action. The boat put to
:18:39. > :18:50.the House of Commons was to have inspectors reported. It was before
:18:50. > :19:02.Russian and Syrian policy changed. We need to make sure that works
:19:02. > :19:04.Russian and Syrian policy changed. practice. Thank you. What do you
:19:04. > :19:09.make about this rushing forward with the help to buy scheme which
:19:09. > :19:14.was meant to start next year - coming forward mad to the next
:19:14. > :19:28.couple of weeks? I think it is a Government having an interest in
:19:28. > :19:33.mortgage lending. -- there is a fundamental problem. It should have
:19:33. > :19:38.been set much lower to exclude London and the South East where
:19:38. > :19:44.houses are dramatically overvalued. Many economists think freezing
:19:44. > :19:49.energy prices is a terrible policy. These policies can be popular. If
:19:49. > :19:58.you have no chance of getting a deposit, the Government will make
:19:58. > :20:04.Osborne tried every single lever. It looked like he could not do
:20:04. > :20:11.anything to get the economy moving. It is moving. They have pulled it
:20:11. > :20:14.forward and there are signs it is recovering. The reason why they
:20:14. > :20:17.forward and there are signs it is doing this is they want to show
:20:17. > :20:21.this week at the conference there are real sort of understandable
:20:21. > :20:25.issues you can explain very simply that really up going to improve
:20:25. > :20:34.people's lives. The Conservatives Miliband's speech last week. The
:20:34. > :20:49.nuts. Much more cautious and -- language about the energy price
:20:49. > :20:54.freeze. They are nervous that Ed Miliband may be touching a nerve on
:20:54. > :21:02.that one. What we will get this week, I suggest, his Tory populism
:21:02. > :21:04.to counter Miliband populism. I think we will see that and it will
:21:04. > :21:10.be a mistake. As long as it is think we will see that and it will
:21:10. > :21:18.about The Picture, they are on relatively strong ground. When the
:21:18. > :21:19.political conversation changes to more fiddly things, particularities
:21:19. > :21:26.standards, things that are some more fiddly things, particularities
:21:26. > :21:30.below that picture, I do not think they can win a bidding war with
:21:30. > :21:31.below that picture, I do not think Labour Party. It is about borrowing
:21:31. > :21:43.against a party that stands for Labour Party. It is about borrowing
:21:43. > :21:48.before the Labour conference, which is unemployment, GDP growth and
:21:48. > :21:54.before the Labour conference, which warming economic picture. That does
:21:54. > :22:00.not pay energy bills. Does not sound that the Tories have anything
:22:00. > :22:02.not pay energy bills. Does not to counter the price freeze. --
:22:02. > :22:04.not pay energy bills. Does not does not sound. They have had a
:22:04. > :22:09.week to think about a great attack line and they do not add anything.
:22:09. > :22:32.the credibility test. Ed Miliband said, if there were a big spike
:22:32. > :22:33.the credibility test. Ed Miliband energy prices, he would not be able
:22:33. > :22:52.it is about credibility. Being seen as serious and grown-up is worth
:22:52. > :22:52.it is about credibility. Being seen more than any burst of popularity.
:22:52. > :23:01.with the election campaign, it My worry about the announcement
:23:01. > :23:06.with the election campaign, it begins to lose credibility, begins
:23:06. > :23:12.to seem a banana republic. It looks a lot less wise than it did last
:23:12. > :23:13.week. I disagree. Every time energy bills go up and they will continue
:23:13. > :23:18.to go up, it will be a reminder bills go up and they will continue
:23:18. > :23:24.how much people are being hit in the pockets. People know by energy
:23:24. > :23:28.prices are going up. There is a structural change in the world that
:23:28. > :23:33.was not there before - China and India. These energy companies may
:23:33. > :23:39.be making huge profit but, at the end of the day, what is driving
:23:39. > :23:42.be making huge profit but, at the the cost of fuel is China and India.
:23:42. > :23:47.Ed Miliband, great man that he is, I am not sure he can take on the
:23:47. > :23:56.people Sammir on that one. How dare Labour's Conference in Brighton
:23:56. > :23:59.last week. Dogged by criticism over the summer of his leadership style
:23:59. > :24:02.and lack of policies, Mr Miliband tried to demonstrate his strength
:24:02. > :24:04.of character with a series of bold announcements, and attempted to
:24:04. > :24:11.position himself on the side of ordinary Brits. The Labour leader
:24:11. > :24:13.told party members he would stand up to the strong and take on the
:24:13. > :24:17.vested interests that hold back up to the strong and take on the
:24:17. > :24:21.economy. In a speech in which he jokingly referred to himself as
:24:21. > :24:21.economy. In a speech in which he action hero, Mr Miliband promised
:24:21. > :24:26.to switch the forthcoming business action hero, Mr Miliband promised
:24:26. > :24:30.tax cut from large firms to smaller businesses. He said he would force
:24:30. > :24:35.big firms to train at an apprentice every time they bring in a worker
:24:35. > :24:40.from outside the EU. He hinted that increasing the minimum wage would
:24:40. > :24:47.be increased. He bowed to take on developers with a use it or lose it
:24:47. > :24:52.threat to landowners and pledged to build 200,000 homes each year by
:24:52. > :24:57.2020. He promised to freeze energy prices and reset the energy market.
:24:57. > :25:06.The next Labour government will freeze gas and electricity prices
:25:06. > :25:12.provoked a rash of headlines - hailing the return of red Ed macro.
:25:12. > :25:14.It has also given him a spike in the polls. And Labour's Shadow
:25:14. > :25:33.Ed Miliband says, our energy market is broken and does not work. In
:25:33. > :25:42.what way is that market to date different from the one Labour left
:25:42. > :25:53.companies that dominate the energy generate energy, and sell it on
:25:53. > :25:55.companies that dominate the energy Miliband recognised when he was
:25:55. > :25:59.Secretary of State and asked for more information from the company
:25:59. > :26:00.Secretary of State and asked for is on hold serve costs and profits,
:26:00. > :26:04.all the things we have done to mitigate against that in terms of a
:26:04. > :26:13.warm front programme and everything Horsell market is too secretive
:26:13. > :26:16.warm front programme and everything it is too much about such supply. -
:26:16. > :26:18.- the wholesale market. We have been raising with the Government in
:26:18. > :26:25.a co-operative way the argument been raising with the Government in
:26:25. > :26:31.resetting the market. It has got worse in terms of speed at which
:26:31. > :26:34.prices have gone up. Labour put wholesale and retail together. It
:26:34. > :26:40.was the start this dates back to wholesale and retail together. It
:26:40. > :26:40.was the start this dates back to privatisation. We took some reforms
:26:40. > :26:48.realised it was not working and privatisation. We took some reforms
:26:48. > :26:50.was broken and we need to reset privatisation. We took some reforms
:26:50. > :26:54.Ed Miliband will be the first to onwards. Let's have a look at what
:26:55. > :26:59.happened to energy prices under onwards. Let's have a look at what
:26:59. > :27:08.Labour government. Electricity up 67%, gas up 139%. Overall prices up
:27:08. > :27:14.by 48%. The market was broken and we saw prices biking as wholesale
:27:14. > :27:21.prices went up. The tick action we saw prices biking as wholesale
:27:21. > :27:30.the one Front programme, decent homes for social housing. -- we
:27:30. > :27:35.programme. Trying to do things around social obligations needs
:27:35. > :27:43.programme. Trying to do things be looked at. Gas and electricity
:27:43. > :27:45.presided over but as a consequence of Labour policy. Beds have a look
:27:45. > :27:52.at the breakdown of dual fuel - of Labour policy. Beds have a look
:27:52. > :27:59.and electricity bill. -- let's have a look. The supply costs of getting
:27:59. > :28:11.it to us and so on. The policies government - Green levies - are
:28:11. > :28:24.energy bills. £112 on average bill of 1188. You have put the bill up.
:28:24. > :28:29.obligations amount to £112. That helps the poorest insulate homes.
:28:29. > :28:36.Overwhelmingly, looking at your wholesale costs are worth more than
:28:36. > :28:43.half. What we have seen, based on figures we now have, in Eni macro,
:28:43. > :28:52.a wholesale costs fell by 39% and that was not reflected in our bills.
:28:52. > :28:57.Do you have plans to do anything about the £112? If you took that
:28:57. > :29:02.off, you could cut bills by 10% tomorrow. Or if you were in power.
:29:02. > :29:11.It is important that restimulate energy. It -- we stimulate. If we
:29:11. > :29:16.do not have clean energy, we will be beholden for ever-more to fossil
:29:16. > :29:20.do not have clean energy, we will fuels that are depleting. It will
:29:20. > :29:30.create jobs and bring in investment will start in the last few years,
:29:30. > :29:37.investment. If I could go back to whatever advance there are, looking
:29:37. > :29:41.at whether the money raised through energy companies to deliver energy
:29:41. > :29:46.efficiency, is that doing as well as it might? Could it be better
:29:46. > :29:53.delivered by another agency? They are fair questions. We need to get
:29:53. > :29:57.market. Can we make the market will competitive make sure when there is
:29:57. > :30:02.downward pressure on wholesale prices, that is reflected on our
:30:02. > :30:04.bills? That is the bigger picture argument. Also the freeze to help
:30:04. > :30:17.As you complain about the energy prices, it was as a result of your
:30:17. > :30:20.actions. Ed Miliband introduced prices, it was as a result of your
:30:20. > :30:27.climate change act. He admitted prices would have to rise to pay for
:30:27. > :30:30.decarbonisation. He said, we are going to minimise the costs as much
:30:30. > :30:35.as possible, but it is true there is not a low-cost energy future out
:30:35. > :30:38.there. It is important that we address the pressures on bills,
:30:38. > :30:40.there. It is important that we also recognise that if we are going
:30:40. > :30:47.to build a better future where we can have more home-grown British
:30:47. > :30:59.renewables. Truth is it is about the market. I acknowledge I acknowledge
:30:59. > :31:08.wholesale prices have fallen. They fell in 2009, we got a reduction in
:31:08. > :31:09.bills of 5%. Which are saying that the big companies are overcharging
:31:09. > :31:14.going up, but we haven't the big companies are overcharging
:31:14. > :31:15.amount of the big companies are overcharging
:31:15. > :31:20.those profits coming through. But the big companies are overcharging
:31:20. > :31:22.that £125 is going to get the big companies are overcharging
:31:22. > :31:26.because your leader said the big companies are overcharging
:31:26. > :31:28.speech in Brighton that Labour will have a world leading commitment
:31:28. > :31:30.speech in Brighton that Labour will Government to take out
:31:30. > :31:32.speech in Brighton that Labour will from energy
:31:32. > :31:35.speech in Brighton that Labour will is not that far away. By 2030,
:31:35. > :31:36.speech in Brighton that Labour will more coal generation, no more gas
:31:36. > :31:41.generation, only much more expensive more coal generation, no more gas
:31:41. > :31:42.nuclear and much more more coal generation, no more gas
:31:42. > :31:43.renewables. It cannot be more coal generation, no more gas
:31:43. > :31:47.without bills going up even further? more coal generation, no more gas
:31:47. > :31:51.Hang on a second. The 2030 target to more coal generation, no more gas
:31:51. > :31:52.remove carbon from more coal generation, no more gas
:31:52. > :31:55.supply, we have said we should set a more coal generation, no more gas
:31:55. > :31:58.target now because, actually, it more coal generation, no more gas
:31:58. > :32:00.gives us more time to plan ahead and also allows investment to come in.
:32:00. > :32:01.gives us more time to plan ahead and There is plenty
:32:01. > :32:03.gives us more time to plan ahead and in their pockets not want to
:32:03. > :32:06.gives us more time to plan ahead and what they are stalling because of
:32:06. > :32:07.gives us more time to plan ahead and the Government's hesitancy over
:32:07. > :32:08.gives us more time to plan ahead and this. I just want a clarification
:32:08. > :32:13.here. My understanding is that this. I just want a clarification
:32:13. > :32:16.commitment is to get rid of all carbon from power generation
:32:16. > :32:19.commitment is to get rid of all 2030? From the letters city supply.
:32:19. > :32:23.commitment is to get rid of all Only electricity. We will still have
:32:23. > :32:26.gas? We have always said we will need gas for decades to come.
:32:26. > :32:36.gas? We have always said we will are clear for that. But you will be
:32:36. > :32:38.increasingly dependent on expensive nuclear. EDF are currently demanding
:32:38. > :32:40.increasingly dependent on expensive twice the market
:32:40. > :32:45.increasingly dependent on expensive plans in this country.
:32:45. > :32:47.increasingly dependent on expensive are two or three times
:32:47. > :32:49.increasingly dependent on expensive price. Bills are going up under your
:32:49. > :32:54.policies, and price. Bills are going up under your
:32:54. > :32:55.policies? On nuclear, we took a decision
:32:55. > :33:00.policies? On nuclear, we took a that we needed to revitalise
:33:00. > :33:03.policies? On nuclear, we took a sector, to hit targets on
:33:03. > :33:05.policies? On nuclear, we took a energy and make sure it can do the
:33:05. > :33:08.policies? On nuclear, we took a heavy lifting. The Government at
:33:08. > :33:09.policies? On nuclear, we took a present time are
:33:09. > :33:10.policies? On nuclear, we took a discussions with
:33:10. > :33:13.policies? On nuclear, we took a strike price should be. It's
:33:13. > :33:15.important, because I don't know what it's going to be, it is important
:33:15. > :33:18.that stands up to scrutiny in terms it's going to be, it is important
:33:18. > :33:23.of value for money. At it's going to be, it is important
:33:23. > :33:25.time, I go back to market reforms. We will not just have
:33:25. > :33:30.time, I go back to market reforms. difference, the
:33:30. > :33:32.time, I go back to market reforms. we will have it for renewables as
:33:32. > :33:35.well. That is even more important, we will have it for renewables as
:33:35. > :33:37.that we have a transparent we will have it for renewables as
:33:37. > :33:42.that we can have a robust target price to be judged against. Michael
:33:42. > :33:43.that we can have a robust target Gove recognised in
:33:43. > :33:45.that we can have a robust target that the market was not working. The
:33:45. > :33:49.Telegraph that the market was not working. The
:33:49. > :33:54.they used the term cosy cartel. We have former advisers to David
:33:54. > :33:56.Cameron saying something needs to be have former advisers to David
:33:56. > :33:59.done. I'm surprised David have former advisers to David
:33:59. > :34:03.doesn't acknowledge that. You are going to freeze prices for 20 months
:34:03. > :34:07.and will come up with a new going to freeze prices for 20 months
:34:07. > :34:10.regulator to replace Ofgem. Will that regulator have the power to
:34:10. > :34:16.control prices? The new energy watchdog will have a strategy
:34:16. > :34:17.control prices? The new energy responsibility to monitor the
:34:17. > :34:20.wholesale costs and prices, which responsibility to monitor the
:34:20. > :34:24.currently doesn't have at the moment. As a result of that it
:34:24. > :34:25.currently doesn't have at the have the power
:34:25. > :34:28.currently doesn't have at the wholesale prices fall, it can
:34:28. > :34:31.currently doesn't have at the the energy companies, if they don't,
:34:31. > :34:34.currently doesn't have at the to pass on reductions in bills to
:34:34. > :34:38.consumers. It will not have to pass on reductions in bills to
:34:38. > :34:40.see in some parts of the European Union, 15 of them, that have a
:34:40. > :34:44.variety of price controls Union, 15 of them, that have a
:34:44. > :34:47.things at below inflation and what have you. France, Spain, Italy. It
:34:47. > :34:50.things at below inflation and what will not do that. Why?
:34:50. > :34:54.things at below inflation and what are looking at a temporary price
:34:54. > :34:55.things at below inflation and what freeze to reflect a
:34:55. > :34:56.things at below inflation and what wholesale prices, to give the
:34:56. > :35:00.British public respite from ever wholesale prices, to give the
:35:00. > :35:02.climbing bills while they wholesale prices, to give the
:35:02. > :35:06.reforms into the market. At the end of this, what we want is
:35:06. > :35:09.reforms into the market. At the end trusted, that is more transparent.
:35:09. > :35:13.reforms into the market. At the end We do believe it is right that,
:35:13. > :35:16.actually, we need a regulator that has much more of a role in making
:35:16. > :35:19.actually, we need a regulator that sure the market is managed
:35:19. > :35:25.effectively. Are you accusing energy companies of profiteering? EU I am
:35:25. > :35:28.accusing them of companies of profiteering? EU I am
:35:28. > :35:30.not passing on wholesale reduction companies of profiteering? EU I am
:35:30. > :35:32.costs to the customer in a fair companies of profiteering? EU I am
:35:32. > :35:43.Of making Carter -- cartel profits? companies of profiteering? EU I am
:35:43. > :35:47.I do believe that the level of profits they have passed on to their
:35:47. > :35:49.shareholders is high, profits they have passed on to their
:35:49. > :35:51.the reductions they could have profits they have passed on to their
:35:51. > :35:52.provided to consumers. Let's profits they have passed on to their
:35:52. > :35:58.the evidence for that. profits they have passed on to their
:35:58. > :36:01.British owned companies, SSE and Centrica. In the last fiscal year
:36:01. > :36:05.British owned companies, SSE and they made combined earnings of £4
:36:05. > :36:10.billion. But they invested £3 billion. The remaining money went to
:36:10. > :36:11.billion. But they invested £3 debt servicing and
:36:11. > :36:15.billion. But they invested £3 which go into pension funds. Where
:36:15. > :36:16.billion. But they invested £3 in these figures is the
:36:16. > :36:20.profiteering? My figures that I in these figures is the
:36:20. > :36:27.through their reporting to Ofgem and work done by other organisations,
:36:27. > :36:29.Witch and others, it shows work done by other organisations,
:36:29. > :36:32.Centrica's case they have something work done by other organisations,
:36:32. > :36:34.like 8% return in profit work done by other organisations,
:36:34. > :36:37.the retail side. That goes up to 24% work done by other organisations,
:36:37. > :36:40.on the generation side. They have work done by other organisations,
:36:40. > :36:45.passed on, in terms of profits, something I70 4% through evidence to
:36:45. > :36:47.shareholders. But these figures don't show that. They have invested
:36:47. > :36:54.shareholders. But these figures £3 billion. I am reporting what has
:36:54. > :36:56.shareholders. But these figures been reported by Ofgem. Ofgem has
:36:56. > :37:00.not accused them of been reported by Ofgem. Ofgem has
:37:00. > :37:02.They may well be, but we don't have the evidence. I would accuse Ofgem
:37:02. > :37:05.of not doing the job they the evidence. I would accuse Ofgem
:37:05. > :37:08.doing, and they have held back from tackling the issue. It is
:37:08. > :37:11.acknowledged, across the sector, tackling the issue. It is
:37:11. > :37:13.across the big six, something tackling the issue. It is
:37:13. > :37:17.50% of profits has gone tackling the issue. It is
:37:17. > :37:21.dividends to shareholders. In Centrica's case it is 74%. On the
:37:21. > :37:23.Centrica example, even though they have had the highest profit
:37:23. > :37:27.Centrica example, even though they they have invested the least.
:37:27. > :37:31.Centrica example, even though they fair to question. We are
:37:31. > :37:33.Centrica example, even though they of time. None of us really know what
:37:33. > :37:38.the true price of energy of time. None of us really know what
:37:38. > :37:40.Labour's policy to reform his crucial. That
:37:40. > :37:42.Labour's policy to reform his the market and we can't
:37:42. > :37:44.Labour's policy to reform his difference. If they continue putting
:37:44. > :37:45.Labour's policy to reform his prices up, even after your price
:37:45. > :37:50.freeze, if they don't invest prices up, even after your price
:37:50. > :37:51.way that they do, do you rule out wholesale
:37:51. > :37:54.way that they do, do you rule out Absolutely. I want a more
:37:54. > :37:55.way that they do, do you rule out competitive market and that is why
:37:55. > :37:59.we are resetting it. You are competitive market and that is why
:37:59. > :38:00.watching Sunday Politics. competitive market and that is why
:38:00. > :38:02.in just over 20 minutes I will be competitive market and that is why
:38:02. > :38:03.looking at the week ahead with Hello and this is the
:38:03. > :38:23.political panel and Hello and this is the Sunday
:38:23. > :38:25.Politics. Coming up: On the eve of the Conservative party conference,
:38:25. > :38:30.our political editor talks to the prime minister about Franklin,
:38:30. > :38:40.children's centres and the threat of —— fracking.
:38:40. > :38:46.Welcome to my guests. Kent county council could be in line for a bill
:38:46. > :38:52.of millions of pounds for years to PFI come, paying for contracts on
:38:52. > :38:56.academy schools. The council lost its battle with the government and
:38:56. > :39:01.will have to pay £1 million a year to maintain the building and
:39:01. > :39:12.facilities at the absolute Academy. —— absolute. This could have far
:39:12. > :39:20.reaching applications. Paul, this was a Labour government initiative
:39:20. > :39:24.PFI, . It sounds like it could be disastrous. It was started by the
:39:24. > :39:30.previous Conservative government. The imperative was so that the
:39:30. > :39:36.buildings could be built. It was worth it to repair the schools and
:39:36. > :39:39.hospitals at the time. Now we are paying in retrospect. Raymond, this
:39:39. > :39:44.highlights what a grey area the whole subject of academies is. It's
:39:44. > :39:50.something that Michael Gove is enthusiastically putting through.
:39:50. > :39:53.Let me make it clear, academies are doing exceptionally well. Looking at
:39:54. > :39:58.the results from 2011 to 2012 and the GCSE results, they are
:39:58. > :40:02.exceptionally high. It's a choice which parents can make, where their
:40:02. > :40:11.child wants to go to school. We should give parents choice. The
:40:11. > :40:15.thing with that, in my view, once a school becomes independent and
:40:15. > :40:18.autonomous, it should carry that financial liability by itself,
:40:18. > :40:23.rather than leaving it with the local authority. It's that money
:40:23. > :40:28.which the local authority has can go to other schools.
:40:28. > :40:31.The future of many of our ancient woodlands could be under threat if
:40:31. > :40:38.they plan to widen the 821 near Tonbridge Kent is given the
:40:38. > :40:45.go—ahead. —— A21. The government 's new planning guidelines places
:40:45. > :40:50.presumption on favour of... In a minute, we will speak to the council
:40:50. > :40:53.who thinks the road should get the go—ahead but first, our reporter
:40:53. > :41:04.went to the woods to look at the arguments being made to save them.
:41:04. > :41:12.Majestic and awe—inspiring. This woodland has taken more than 400
:41:12. > :41:17.years to mature. But now its future may signal the few —— the fate of
:41:17. > :41:22.other ancient woodlands around the country because 22 acres of these
:41:22. > :41:29.words may have to make way for this. The decision on widening this
:41:29. > :41:33.stretch of the A21 is being seen as a landmark ruling on the government
:41:33. > :41:35.'s new planning policy. We are concerned this will set a precedent
:41:35. > :41:42.for other schemes where again, there are other options. Destruction is
:41:42. > :41:46.avoidable. We don't want to see too many decisions coming out that lead
:41:46. > :41:50.people down the route to think the easy option is to destroy the
:41:50. > :41:56.ancient woodland. We are worried it would become a soft target. The
:41:56. > :41:59.first major test of the National planning policy framework also
:41:59. > :42:05.centred on ancient woodlands in Kent and its outcome last week has got
:42:06. > :42:10.campaigners worried. They lost their fight to stop the destruction of 80
:42:10. > :42:15.acres of oak wood near Maidstone to make way for a quarry expansion.
:42:15. > :42:19.They had tried to force a judicial review of the decision made by the
:42:19. > :42:25.Secretary of State for communities and local government, Eric pickles.
:42:25. > :42:28.The decision has basically served a potential death sentence on every
:42:28. > :42:33.single piece of ancient woodland in this country. No ancient woodland is
:42:33. > :42:38.no say. This is a massive national crisis alone over Lib Dems are
:42:38. > :42:43.hugely concerned about this. I hope now the Conservatives will start to
:42:43. > :42:52.realise what this decision means. Conservationists say nothing can
:42:52. > :42:57.make up for destroying this habitat as it has taken centuries to evolve.
:42:57. > :43:02.Some parts of the woodlands around the road may also be designated as a
:43:02. > :43:10.site of special scientific interest. But this fight is not just a matter
:43:10. > :43:15.of protecting the environment. They are taking the easy option. Quite
:43:15. > :43:17.often, road expansion is a short—term fix. Studies show that
:43:17. > :43:23.soon after the road widening, short—term fix. Studies show that
:43:23. > :43:26.transport expands to fit capacity available. We would rather see a
:43:26. > :43:30.more holistic solution, whether that's public transport or
:43:30. > :43:36.tunnelling. A public enquiry as to whether to make it dual carriageway
:43:36. > :43:40.finished this summer. The government says it could bring £400 million
:43:40. > :43:44.worth of economic benefits, opponents argue this is the wrong
:43:44. > :43:49.approach. This whole concept of economic growth at any cost has to
:43:49. > :43:53.be challenged. Frankly, with economic growth you get further
:43:53. > :43:55.environmental destruction, the environment is under huge pressure,
:43:55. > :44:03.we are already living way beyond our means. There is also an argument
:44:03. > :44:10.that woodlands themselves bring their own economic benefits. There
:44:10. > :44:18.were 30 million visits to woodlands and forests in the south—east last
:44:18. > :44:23.year. Natural England estimates that £180 million was spent during those
:44:23. > :44:30.visits. And here in the south—east, we have four times more ancient
:44:30. > :44:33.woodland and the national average. There is growing concern about the
:44:33. > :44:37.fate of other ancient woodlands in the south—east. At a public meeting
:44:37. > :44:42.in Maidstone this week, residents met to discuss the risk posed to a
:44:42. > :44:46.dozen other sites in the borough. I think we are going to lose
:44:46. > :44:50.irretrievably a lot of what is the green space around Maidstone. It is
:44:50. > :44:57.supposed to be the Garden of England, Kent, and we are just
:44:57. > :45:01.worried that all our green spaces are being swallowed up. The final
:45:01. > :45:05.decision over the road expansion is due in the next few months. In the
:45:05. > :45:10.meantime, campaigners say the fate of the country 's ancient woodlands
:45:10. > :45:14.hangs in the balance. Will the government is planning
:45:14. > :45:23.reforms mean economic interest will always take priority over the
:45:23. > :45:28.environment? We are joined in the studio by the
:45:28. > :45:34.leader of Tonbridge Borough Council. Hello. Anyone who regularly
:45:34. > :45:38.uses that road will be in favour of whitening it. You convinced that
:45:38. > :45:42.long—term, this is the answer to cutting congestion in the area? What
:45:42. > :45:47.we need to look at is what we've got at the moment. There is a very
:45:47. > :45:50.strong case for duelling the road on this four mile stretch. Festival,
:45:50. > :45:55.congestion is a significant problem. In itself, that is a
:45:55. > :45:58.barrier to economic activity and development. Second, we need to look
:45:58. > :46:02.at the poor safety record of the road. More recently, with fatalities
:46:02. > :46:06.that have taken place. There was a young girl in Sevenoaks who was
:46:06. > :46:07.killed going down the hill. We now also need to consider that this
:46:07. > :46:16.stretch of road serves the new strategic hospital at Pembrey. It is
:46:16. > :46:20.regrettable that when the agreement was agreed by the government, they
:46:20. > :46:26.didn't also locked in the duelling of the road. 90% of our congestion
:46:26. > :46:31.is in towns. Anyone will tell you, the road coming into Tonbridge Wells
:46:31. > :46:35.is very congested. All that will happen is the traffic get there
:46:35. > :46:41.faster and stints in a Jew. It's fine on the weekend. Sometimes it is
:46:41. > :46:45.very congested. If you see the road in peak hours, it's incredibly
:46:45. > :46:51.congested. The congestion goes into Tonbridge itself from the
:46:51. > :46:55.roundabout. A wider faster road to get those times will help. It will
:46:55. > :47:03.help and it will also help businesses do their business. The
:47:03. > :47:06.Federation of small businesses said that 75% of respondents said that
:47:06. > :47:13.duelling the road will help the economic activity. It will mean loss
:47:13. > :47:16.of ancient woodlands. These particular habitats. Does that
:47:16. > :47:20.concern you at all? That is regrettable but we also need to
:47:20. > :47:24.consider that we're talking about nine characters of woodland. That's
:47:24. > :47:29.about 1% of the total... It is ancient woodland but I think we also
:47:29. > :47:31.need to look ahead as well. Are we going to be stymied in terms of
:47:31. > :47:36.economic growth because of what we've got from our heritage? I think
:47:36. > :47:39.we need to have a sustainable economic development and this is the
:47:39. > :47:44.right way to achieve that. What do you think, Raymond? This is the
:47:44. > :47:48.wider question for this very green part of the world. As economic
:47:48. > :47:51.development always worthwhile at the expense of ancient woodland? Not at
:47:51. > :47:55.all. You have to find a balance between the two. The same debate was
:47:55. > :47:59.had with high—speed one which came to Kent. Look at the benefits that
:47:59. > :48:04.are coming to the south—east as a result of that. We have the same
:48:04. > :48:09.argument with the motorway when it came about. You have to balance the
:48:09. > :48:14.environment and economy. I think one goes with the other. You cannot do
:48:14. > :48:21.one without other. Are you concerned about the mood music coming from
:48:21. > :48:23.Conservative ministers, all talking about the sacrifices of the
:48:23. > :48:31.environment for the sake of economic growth? If you look at the national
:48:31. > :48:37.policy framework which talks about the presumption in favour of keeping
:48:37. > :48:38.ancient woodland, and also preserving irreplaceable habitats,
:48:38. > :48:47.the presumption is woodland. But in exceptional
:48:47. > :48:51.circumstances, if the benefit outweighs the loss, you have to go
:48:51. > :48:54.with the benefit. He will also have to see what you can do to preserve
:48:54. > :48:57.the environment. Ultimately, you have to take into account the
:48:57. > :49:01.environmental features. If it does go ahead, you have to do everything
:49:01. > :49:08.you can to put into place environmental features to ensure
:49:08. > :49:11.that. You must... Ed Miliband talk about building more housing and
:49:11. > :49:15.forcing housing on rural communities. He's not going to lose
:49:15. > :49:18.any votes by that kind of call, is it? The first thing the government
:49:18. > :49:22.did was to abolish the infrastructure planning commission.
:49:22. > :49:26.That means you don't have that overview so you can strategically
:49:26. > :49:41.plan your 30s, your roads, your railways as well and the green
:49:41. > :49:46.spaces that will enjoy. You have the regional spatial strategy which went
:49:46. > :49:52.to concrete over 27 different towns who ran the country. At the expense
:49:52. > :49:56.of our woodlands? One of our organisations has said housing is
:49:56. > :50:00.the biggest threat to ancient woodlands. That is why you need an
:50:00. > :50:02.overview. We have to recognise our population is growing and people
:50:02. > :50:06.want to live an attractive places. All of these areas were originally
:50:06. > :50:11.feels and now they are not. We have to encroach to some degree but it's
:50:11. > :50:15.about getting the balance right. Final question, you want your road
:50:16. > :50:18.to be widened. We understand that but are you not worried
:50:18. > :50:21.president that sets for the president that sets foot of valuable
:50:21. > :50:27.parts of our countryside? I think that it has to be a case—by—case
:50:27. > :50:30.basis. The arguments over the duelling of this section of road
:50:30. > :50:41.have been going on for years and years. We have recently had the
:50:41. > :50:44.public enquiry. I wait with baited breath to see if we get the scheme
:50:44. > :50:46.ready so that when the Chancellor releases the government —— money in
:50:46. > :50:49.2015, we can have the scheme ready Now, it is week three of the party
:50:49. > :50:52.conference season and the Conservatives are meeting in
:50:52. > :50:56.Manchester. A survey of Tory councillors carried out for this
:50:56. > :51:08.programme has found that 22% of them would support a pact with UKIP.
:51:08. > :51:14.I am not looking for pacts. I think we need to give people a clear
:51:14. > :51:19.choice at the next election. The British economy has turned a corner.
:51:19. > :51:22.We are seeing more jobs, more new businesses. You're beginning to get
:51:22. > :51:26.things moving again. Do you want to stick with us on the right track,
:51:26. > :51:30.delivering a colony for hard—working people or do you want to protect ——
:51:30. > :51:36.that at risk with Ed Miliband and his crazy plans to tax business out
:51:36. > :51:39.of existence? I've got to do more to win people over. But I think when we
:51:39. > :51:43.make the arguments about how we are getting control of immigration,
:51:43. > :51:46.forming our —— reforming our welfare system, school standards are
:51:46. > :51:51.raising, you're sorting out his problems, I think we will bring
:51:51. > :51:55.people back. If not UKIP a pact with, or how about wooing back their
:51:55. > :51:59.voters? There are concerns in the south—east. We are dealing with all
:51:59. > :52:04.of those issues. Let me take one, the Europe issue which is important
:52:04. > :52:08.to some voters. I have promised that if re—elected, we will have a wee
:52:08. > :52:11.negotiation and then and in/out referendum.
:52:11. > :59:04.Residents in Sittingbourne were shocked to find the council had
:59:04. > :59:10.painted a series of short yellow lines around cars in the middle of
:59:10. > :59:16.the night. Residents think they have crossed the line. Pathetic.
:59:16. > :59:22.Horrendous. Never seen something so shocking. They are pulling no
:59:22. > :59:32.punches and nor is he in Dale on the Brighton seafront. He was wrestled
:59:32. > :59:35.away. He has apologised and received a caution from the police. Caroline
:59:35. > :59:43.Lucas has gone one further and was charged for an offence this week.
:59:43. > :59:46.The Brighton MP faces one charge of obstructing the highway. Lucas says
:59:46. > :59:52.she believes in the right to peaceful process. Finally, Tracey
:59:52. > :59:59.sparked a security alert in the House of Commons. Turns out it was
:59:59. > :00:05.spider spray. Her house is currently invested with the creepy crawlies.
:00:05. > :00:09.Poor old Tracey. I am not going to ask you whether you are scared of
:00:09. > :00:15.spiders. What do you think of Caroline Lucas? She is standing up
:00:15. > :00:20.for her values. I think it is reckless because the first thing we
:00:20. > :00:24.do is to tell our children to stay within the law. If Caroline wants to
:00:24. > :00:27.demonstrate peacefully, absolutely right and proper. Everyone has a
:00:27. > :00:33.right to do that. But there is a line. If you cross that, whether you
:00:33. > :00:36.are an MP, or a senior person out there, you are still subject to the
:00:36. > :00:42.same law as other residents. On that basis, the courts should try it
:00:42. > :00:45.fairly. It could win her votes. She is desperate to get arrested. She
:00:45. > :00:53.was dying to be arrested. This will encourage you. What would you stand
:00:53. > :00:57.for? I would say that you should stand up your principles. You must
:00:57. > :01:19.act within the law. Thank you very much. That's all we've got time for.
:01:19. > :01:25.So, we'll David Cameron's marriage tax break win over voters? How will
:01:25. > :01:36.So, we'll David Cameron's marriage conference initiatives? And what is
:01:36. > :01:41.UKIP leader Nigel FarageFarage up to with the Tories in Manchester?
:01:41. > :01:56.On this business of a possible Tory- UKIP pact, in a general election,
:01:56. > :02:02.let's see what David Cameron had to say about that earlier. I am not
:02:02. > :02:05.looking for a packed. I think we need to give people a clear choice
:02:05. > :02:09.at the general election. The British economy has turned a corner. We
:02:09. > :02:11.at the general election. The British on the right track, we are seeing
:02:11. > :02:14.more jobs, new businesses, we are beginning to get things moving
:02:14. > :02:20.again. Do you want to stick with us, hard-working people, or do you want
:02:20. > :02:25.to put it at risk with Ed Miliband hard-working people, or do you want
:02:25. > :02:31.and his crazy plans to tax business out of existence? That was the Prime
:02:31. > :02:39.there any appetite on the UKIP side discussions around the country,
:02:39. > :02:50.there any appetite on the UKIP side would say no. It's being discussed,
:02:50. > :02:53.is the media that is pushing this. It has reflected what has happened
:02:53. > :02:59.conference season began. Labour It has reflected what has happened
:02:59. > :03:05.trying to reclaim what I would call position. I'm not sure what the
:03:05. > :03:11.Liberal Democrats or two, but the Conservatives are trying to react to
:03:11. > :03:16.accusation they are lurching more to the right, which the media wants to
:03:16. > :03:20.able to do some sort of pact with interpret as them possibly being
:03:20. > :03:26.able to do some sort of pact with UKIP. Have you given any thought to
:03:26. > :03:33.whatsoever. It is not on the radar. I have read comments, including
:03:33. > :03:39.Carswell, the Eurosceptics, that they might form a potential, let's
:03:39. > :03:43.call it, you know, cabinet. If there were UKIP members, I don't doubt
:03:43. > :03:46.that Nigel Farage would be one of them. But I would reiterate it is
:03:46. > :03:54.not discussions that are taking place. I am thinking more of an
:03:54. > :03:58.have responded to that by saying, the moment, there are no ongoing
:03:58. > :04:05.discussions. There is certainly constituency level or coming out of
:04:05. > :04:14.believe any constituencies are Eurosceptics? I am not privy to
:04:14. > :04:16.believe any constituencies are all 360 constituencies might be
:04:16. > :04:22.discussing. All I can do is give you the example of the few I have seen
:04:22. > :04:24.and know it is not on the agenda. Without a pact, it is perfectly
:04:24. > :04:29.possible that you could fail to Without a pact, it is perfectly
:04:29. > :04:34.a single seat at the next election, but put Ed Miliband into Downing
:04:34. > :04:36.Street? Categorically not. There are a number of seats out there that are
:04:36. > :04:53.very clear marginals, just like a number of seats out there that are
:04:53. > :04:58.Izzard was. I believe there could be an MP -- just like Eastleigh was. If
:04:58. > :05:01.you take enough votes away from an MP -- just like Eastleigh was. If
:05:02. > :05:07.Tories, if you make sure that Labour wins? I will go back to the comment
:05:07. > :05:12.I made. If you take Eastleigh as an example, a Liberal Democrat held
:05:12. > :05:17.seat, even after that result, does not mean that UKIP is suddenly going
:05:17. > :05:20.to be focusing on Tory seats. We are out there because people resonate
:05:21. > :05:23.with our message. For the Liberal Democrats to make it abundantly
:05:23. > :05:27.clear that they will not support a referendum, that they will not
:05:27. > :05:31.support any discussion on leaving the queue, that could be a big
:05:31. > :05:33.turn-off for voters. David Cameron says there is not going to be a
:05:33. > :05:36.pact, Diane James says there is says there is not going to be a
:05:36. > :05:38.going to be one. There might be says there is not going to be a
:05:38. > :05:41.or at a constituency level. But says there is not going to be a
:05:41. > :05:46.seems clear to me that there will not be a national one. So, does
:05:46. > :05:48.David Cameron have a UKIP strategy? The only encouraging thing for
:05:48. > :05:51.UKIP's successful David Cameron that the moment that he would only
:05:51. > :05:55.that their support is so enormous that the moment that he would only
:05:55. > :05:58.really need to win back maybe a third or a quarter of its to make a
:05:58. > :06:02.decisive difference to the Tory share of the vote in 2015. The
:06:02. > :06:07.question becomes, how much of that UKIP support is up for grabs? A
:06:07. > :06:09.question becomes, how much of that last week suggested that 47% of
:06:09. > :06:12.current UKIP voters would consider voting Tory if it meant preventing
:06:12. > :06:18.Ed Miliband becoming Prime Minister. That number goes up to 57% against
:06:18. > :06:25.recovery. So, plausibly, there is secondary question is, what does
:06:25. > :06:29.David Cameron do to win over those people? He has tried a Europe will
:06:29. > :06:32.referendum and it didn't work. He tried travelling up his immigration
:06:32. > :06:38.policy and that didn't work. I wonder if it is time. You wait until
:06:38. > :06:44.the run-up to 2015, when they start to focus on the explicit choice
:06:44. > :06:52.Cameron, and that is what shifts a Cameron. We heard from William Hague
:06:52. > :06:55.earlier in the programme, the Tory line is that if you vote UKIP you
:06:55. > :07:01.could end up with Ed Miliband in Downing Street. That is the simple
:07:01. > :07:07.appeal, isn't it? Yes, and I think Diane is right, I think the European
:07:07. > :07:12.elections will show a good showing for UKIP. It is deemed the one where
:07:12. > :07:14.you can play away. I think it will be hard for people to get excited
:07:14. > :07:20.about that, I think that bounce be hard for people to get excited
:07:20. > :07:25.fade away. In Eastleigh, they had a good ground game, that is difficult
:07:26. > :07:28.for UKIP, that don't have that machinery sorted. How are they going
:07:28. > :07:33.to fund that operation? But the machinery sorted. How are they going
:07:33. > :07:39.bounce could fade away after the European elections. Even if they go
:07:39. > :07:43.election, they are still immensely dangerous to the Conservative Party.
:07:43. > :07:47.But there is really only two things David Cameron can do. One is to
:07:47. > :07:49.But there is really only two things boring and talk about helping people
:07:49. > :07:54.with their mortgage, helping with bread and butter issues. The second
:07:54. > :07:57.thing is, those European actions, he tends to the natural Conservative
:07:57. > :07:59.voters and says, you have had your fun, next year do you want me or Ed
:07:59. > :08:03.Miliband us your prime and? The fun, next year do you want me or Ed
:08:03. > :08:07.danger with David Cameron is saying, of course, there is not going to be
:08:07. > :08:13.a pact, the danger is you will get a repeat of the 1977 election. John
:08:13. > :08:19.Major said, famously, do not bind my hands. A series of Conservative
:08:19. > :08:23.personally rule out membership of the euro, when the Conservative
:08:23. > :08:25.membership was wait and see. That looked like a Prime Minister not in
:08:25. > :08:31.charge of his party. The danger looked like a Prime Minister not in
:08:31. > :08:34.Let's assume you do really well looked like a Prime Minister not in
:08:34. > :08:41.the European actions and there is a widespread expectation that you
:08:41. > :08:44.will, even in Downing Street. They might be managing expectations.
:08:44. > :08:47.will, even in Downing Street. They stops you fading away as the general
:08:47. > :08:50.election approaches? A number of reasons. As has been mentioned,
:08:50. > :08:52.election approaches? A number of whole issue of the referendum pledge
:08:52. > :08:59.has been proved to be an absolute nonsense. It is so contingent on if
:08:59. > :09:07.I am re-elected, if it's not a coalition government, is, if, if.
:09:07. > :09:08.That was fooled nobody. The issue of where voters are coming from, it is
:09:08. > :09:12.because they have lost faith in where voters are coming from, it is
:09:12. > :09:18.David Cameron says. There is nothing he is going to say that is convince
:09:18. > :09:21.think that is my view and the view of a lot of UKIP. I am told that
:09:21. > :09:29.they have expunged Nigel Farage of a lot of UKIP. I am told that
:09:29. > :09:33.the fringes? It is a great scoop, on the front page. They are outside the
:09:33. > :09:38.ring of steel. Even so, they won't programme, so they must be worried
:09:38. > :09:42.paid money for adverts in the Tory about something. His people have
:09:42. > :09:43.paid money for adverts in the Tory brochure and his name has been taken
:09:43. > :09:47.out. Speaking of people the Tory brochure and his name has been taken
:09:47. > :09:52.leadership is worried about, Boris Johnson, are we in any doubt as
:09:52. > :09:59.leadership is worried about, Boris interview that he is now beginning
:09:59. > :10:01.his long march back to Parliament? He does express feeling slightly sad
:10:01. > :10:04.during the Syria debate that he He does express feeling slightly sad
:10:04. > :10:09.not there, on the political front line to participate. I still do
:10:09. > :10:14.not there, on the political front see why it is in his interest is to
:10:14. > :10:17.move before 2015. No, I don't think he will move before, I think he
:10:17. > :10:17.move before 2015. No, I don't think sending a signal to the existing
:10:17. > :10:29.Tories in the Commons that when sending a signal to the existing
:10:29. > :10:33.Me Dave goes, I will be back? He has the Vince Cable problem, if you
:10:33. > :10:36.Me Dave goes, I will be back? He has the same thing too many times,
:10:36. > :10:40.people get bored and factor it in. The interesting thing is him saying
:10:40. > :10:45.that people have seven years before the electorate get bored of them. He
:10:45. > :10:48.might be cresting that. He doesn't want to be Prime Minister, he is
:10:48. > :10:55.much more ambitious than that. He wants to be an emperor. He was
:10:55. > :11:02.asked, which Roman emperor would you like to be compared to? You said,
:11:02. > :11:09.important. I don't think you are thinking big enough. See what I
:11:09. > :11:09.important. I don't think you are to put up with, every Sunday? By
:11:09. > :11:14.virtue of being born in the US, to put up with, every Sunday? By
:11:14. > :11:23.could be president. Unlike Arnold Schwarzenegger. How about a deal
:11:23. > :11:27.with Boris? He has made no secret, after Eastleigh, that he would be
:11:27. > :11:31.open to a discussion. Let's call it no more than a discussion. He has
:11:31. > :11:36.been adamant, however, he does not see any reason, any justification or
:11:36. > :11:42.any opportunity where he would be able to have that discourse with
:11:42. > :11:45.any opportunity where he would be David Cameron. Maybe it comes down
:11:45. > :11:49.to that on both sides. I've no idea. We know that the Tories will be
:11:49. > :11:52.to that on both sides. I've no idea. more Eurosceptic after the next
:11:52. > :11:56.election? I can't imagine David Cameron's successor will be somebody
:11:56. > :12:04.that supports EU membership in ideological direction of the party.
:12:04. > :12:05.The leadership contest will be about 2018. If you are standing, when
:12:05. > :12:12.this is a great deal for Britain membership, are you going to say
:12:12. > :12:14.this is a great deal for Britain because the Prime Minister has
:12:14. > :12:17.turned to leave rapid change two words in the working Time directive,
:12:17. > :12:20.turned to leave rapid change two or are you going to become a leader
:12:20. > :12:31.by saying, I want out? What would be a good conference for David Cameron
:12:31. > :12:36.eye-catching announcement related to living standards. May be a clearer
:12:36. > :12:41.line on energy prices? That would certainly help, that fightback has
:12:41. > :12:44.been rubbish so far. The thing we should be looking out for are not
:12:44. > :12:47.the polls immediately after, but the ones about the end of October, when
:12:47. > :12:53.everything gets to settle down and then we will see what happens. In a
:12:53. > :12:57.word, what is Nigel Farage out to get at the Tory conference? What is
:12:57. > :13:05.he doing, other than mischief? I could almost say revenge. Revenge on
:13:05. > :13:11.Mr Cameron? Yes. You know? Lord Ashcroft was there at the Labour
:13:11. > :13:15.conference. You call it mischief, but there is every reason why he
:13:15. > :13:19.should be there. We all call it mischief. Thanks for being with
:13:19. > :13:22.should be there. We all call it Join me on Daily Politics for live
:13:22. > :13:25.coverage of the Conservative Party conference tomorrow morning from
:13:25. > :13:29.11:30 on BBC Two. We will bring conference tomorrow morning from
:13:29. > :13:33.George Osborne's speech live and uninterrupted. I'll be back next
:13:33. > :13:34.weekend when guests will include former Conservative Chancellor
:13:34. > :13:37.Kenneth Clarke. Remember, if it former Conservative Chancellor
:13:37. > :13:40.Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.