:00:36. > :00:42.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. The dust has barely
:00:43. > :00:45.settled on George Osborne's Budget and, amazingly, for once it hasn't
:00:46. > :00:48.all gone horribly wrong by the weekend. So, is this the election
:00:49. > :00:52.springboard the Tories needed, and where does it leave Labour? Turns
:00:53. > :00:57.out the big Budget surprise was a revolution in how we pay for old
:00:58. > :01:00.age. The Pensions Minister says he's relaxed if you want to spend it all
:01:01. > :01:06.on a Lamborghini. He'll join us later. And could the man with the
:01:07. > :01:09.maracas be on his way to Westminster? Bez from the Happy
:01:10. > :01:13.And in the South East... A new boost plan
:01:14. > :01:16.And in the South East... A new boost for an old plan, so will thd
:01:17. > :01:17.Chancellor's Garden City at Ebbsfleet succeed where previous
:01:18. > :01:24.house`building projects havd failed? In London, the Mafia man gets to
:01:25. > :01:36.stay in Axbridge. Are there ways of making the European arrest warrant
:01:37. > :01:39.work better? -- Uxbridge. And who better to help guide you through all
:01:40. > :01:42.of that than three journalists, who dispense wisdom faster than Grant
:01:43. > :01:45.Shapps calls out the numbers in his local bingo hall over a pint of
:01:46. > :01:51.beer. Yes, they're hard-working and they're doing the things they enjoy.
:01:52. > :01:52.Cup of tea, number three. It's Nick Watt, Polly Toynbee and Janan
:01:53. > :02:02.Ganesh. So, George Osborne delivered his
:02:03. > :02:05.fifth Budget on Wednesday and had so many glowing front pages the day
:02:06. > :02:08.afterwards he must be running out of room to pin them up in on his
:02:09. > :02:12.bedroom wall. Although it's probably a pretty big wall. For those of you
:02:13. > :02:15.who didn't have time to watch 3 5 hours of Budget coverage on the BBC,
:02:16. > :02:43.here's Giles with the whole thing in three minutes.
:02:44. > :02:48.Budget days have a rhythm of their own, driven partly by tradition
:02:49. > :02:51.like that photocall at 11 Downing Street and part logistics, how to
:02:52. > :02:58.get this important statement out and explain to those whom it affects -
:02:59. > :03:07.us? Behind-the-scenes of a Budget Day is much the same. This ritual
:03:08. > :03:11.red boxery may be the beginning of the end of weeks of work behind the
:03:12. > :03:14.scenes in the Treasury and sets the clock ticking on the process of
:03:15. > :03:17.finding out the answer to one question. You got any rabbits in the
:03:18. > :03:20.box, Chancellor? Yes, there will be something in the Budget we don't
:03:21. > :03:22.know about. Time marches steadily towards the statement and already
:03:23. > :03:29.commentators are hovering over what those potential surprises are. As
:03:30. > :03:31.Big Ben chimes, all focus returns to the Commons, where there is Prime
:03:32. > :03:38.Minister's questions and the Chancellor gets up and does his
:03:39. > :03:41.thing. Once he's on his feet and remembering there is still no copy
:03:42. > :03:45.of the details, the major measures are rapidly highlighted as they come
:03:46. > :03:53.and then put up on screen. A cap on Government welfare spending set for
:03:54. > :03:57.2015/16 at 119 billion. Income tax personal allowance raised to
:03:58. > :04:01.?10,500. Bingo duty halved, which ticked boxes for some but was
:04:02. > :04:07.unlikely to make anyone a poster boy. And the beer tax cut of 1p or
:04:08. > :04:09.the froth on the top. And changes to pensions allowing people to take
:04:10. > :04:18.their money out in one lump sum rather than being forced to accept a
:04:19. > :04:22.fixed annual pay-out, or annuity. This is a Budget for the makers the
:04:23. > :04:25.doers and the savers and I commend it to the House. Not everyone can
:04:26. > :04:30.focus on the Budget by listening to what the Chancellor says. We need to
:04:31. > :04:33.get a copy of the script. We do not get that till he sits down. I'm
:04:34. > :04:40.going to go into the House of Commons to get that right now. There
:04:41. > :04:44.will be a response on that and all the other things from Mr Miliband.
:04:45. > :04:47.The Chancellor spoke for nearly an hour but he did not mention one
:04:48. > :04:51.essential fact, the working people of Britain are worse off under the
:04:52. > :04:54.Tories. It is a tricky job answering the Budget at the best of times
:04:55. > :04:56.though some, including Labour MPs, think it is better to mention the
:04:57. > :05:05.Budget when you do. Here we are. I am going to go. I am
:05:06. > :05:08.not the only journalist missing Ed Miliband's speech. Many others leave
:05:09. > :05:14.the Chamber as the Chancellor sits down to attend a special briefing
:05:15. > :05:19.from the Chancellor's advisory team. I am hotfoot to the studio. There is
:05:20. > :05:22.a little more detail to the Budget than the Budget Speech. That detail
:05:23. > :05:25.can be whether words unravel and other interpretations emerge. By now
:05:26. > :05:33.the gaggle of supporters and detractors are taking the debate
:05:34. > :05:38.onto the airwaves. Are you the BBC? Have the Daily Politics packed up?
:05:39. > :05:40.No, we're still standing and, days later, still trying to assess
:05:41. > :05:43.whether the measures announced still seem fresh and appetising or have
:05:44. > :05:54.already gone stale in the minds of voters?
:05:55. > :06:05.How significant are these two poles this morning putting Labour and Tory
:06:06. > :06:11.nip and tuck? Osborne gave his party a good bounce. It was an
:06:12. > :06:15.astonishingly theatrical coup. At first glance, it seems like a huge
:06:16. > :06:20.gift to all people. That is where all of the money has been channelled
:06:21. > :06:24.by this government. They have been ultra-protected, triple locked.
:06:25. > :06:30.Pensioners have done very well and others less well. It is not
:06:31. > :06:33.surprising. Normally a budget which is well received on the day and the
:06:34. > :06:40.day after has unravelled by the weekend. This time, it has not, so
:06:41. > :06:44.far. The dangerous thing for the Labour Party now, George Osborne is
:06:45. > :06:48.the assessment this thing called the baseline. He says, in government,
:06:49. > :06:54.you must control the baseline. The Labour party controlled in 2001 and
:06:55. > :06:57.2005 and he needs to control it next time. He is controlling it on fiscal
:06:58. > :07:02.policy because labour is matching them on everything. The danger for
:07:03. > :07:07.Labour on the big, headline grabbing issue, which was freeing up
:07:08. > :07:11.annuities on pensions, that again Labour was pretty much saying it was
:07:12. > :07:15.going to support it though it were saying it has to be fair and
:07:16. > :07:21.cost-effective. On a big, policy issue, they are following on behind
:07:22. > :07:25.George Osborne. George Osborne is controlling the crucial baseline.
:07:26. > :07:34.Are we in danger of reading too much into the political implications of
:07:35. > :07:39.the budget? The good thing about the pensions policy is, if it does
:07:40. > :07:44.unravel, it will not happen for ten years and, by that time, George
:07:45. > :07:48.Osborne will have left office. Towards the end of his speech, I
:07:49. > :07:53.thought, that is not enough. There is not an idea in your budget which
:07:54. > :07:57.is politically very vivid a year before an election. What I
:07:58. > :08:01.underestimated was, how many frustrated savers that are in the
:08:02. > :08:07.country. There are a lot of people who are frustrated by low interest
:08:08. > :08:12.rates and tax rates on pension pots. This was an explicit gesture for
:08:13. > :08:17.them. That is what has paid off in the polls in the past few days. You
:08:18. > :08:23.spend all of your money on your wardrobe, is that right? The bingo
:08:24. > :08:28.poster was a kind of get out of jail card for Labour. It gave them
:08:29. > :08:32.something to zoom in on. Everyone beat up on Grant Shapps, the Tory
:08:33. > :08:37.chairman. We read in the daily Telegraph that the fingerprints of
:08:38. > :08:44.the Chancellor were all over this poster. The Chancellor signed off it
:08:45. > :08:53.-- off on it and so did Lynton Crosby. They referred to working
:08:54. > :08:58.class people as, they are. How did it get into the Telegraph? We can
:08:59. > :09:04.only presume but grant Shapps made it clear that it was not him. We had
:09:05. > :09:07.a time when Labour politicians, we saw from the response of Ed Miliband
:09:08. > :09:12.onwards, they were not quite sure how to react to this budget. A lot
:09:13. > :09:17.of detail had to be absorbed. Suddenly, here is something we can
:09:18. > :09:27.talk about. You can see the thinking behind the poster was very sensible.
:09:28. > :09:30.We are not Tory toffs, we are interested in helping people who do
:09:31. > :09:36.not come from our backgrounds. The wording was awful and played into
:09:37. > :09:43.every cliche. It was all his fault. It shows how unsophisticated he
:09:44. > :09:52.was. There were people from Tory HQ who agreed the budget. A month down
:09:53. > :09:59.the line will the budget look as good? Probably. Once people look at
:10:00. > :10:02.it, pensions are fiendishly conjugated. Once they look and see
:10:03. > :10:06.what it will do with people having to pay for their own care because
:10:07. > :10:10.they can now take capital at their pension, that will come as a shock
:10:11. > :10:18.to a lot of people with small savings. It all be gone on their
:10:19. > :10:23.care. The polling will be neck and neck all the way. In the past,
:10:24. > :10:26.George Osborne has been accused of using his Budgets to tinker at the
:10:27. > :10:29.margins or pull cheap tricks on his political opponents. Perish the
:10:30. > :10:31.thought. But the big surprise in this year's statement was a
:10:32. > :10:42.genuinely radical shake-up of the pensions system that will affect
:10:43. > :10:46.most people who've yet to retire. At the moment, everyone is saving money
:10:47. > :10:51.into a defined contribution pension, that is the type most common in the
:10:52. > :10:56.private sector. They can take 2 % of the pot is a tax-free lump sum when
:10:57. > :11:00.they retire. The rest of the money, for most people, they are forced to
:11:01. > :11:04.buy an annuity, a form of insurance which provide a guaranteed monthly
:11:05. > :11:09.income until they die. Annuities have hardly been a bargain since
:11:10. > :11:16.interest rates were flat slashed following the financial crash. Even
:11:17. > :11:22.with a ?100,000 pension pot would only get an income of ?5,800 a year
:11:23. > :11:26.at current rates. From 2018, pensioners will not be forced to buy
:11:27. > :11:33.an annuity. They can do what they like with their money, even taking
:11:34. > :11:40.the entire pot as a lump some but paying tax on 75% of it.
:11:41. > :11:48.With an average pension pot closer to around ?30,000, pensioners would
:11:49. > :11:54.be more likely to buy a Skoda instead of a Lamborghini. Most newly
:11:55. > :11:59.retired people who take the cash are more likely to spend the money
:12:00. > :12:02.paying off their mortgage, helping a family member to buy a property or
:12:03. > :12:05.investing the money elsewhere. Well, earlier I spoke to the Pensions
:12:06. > :12:09.Minister. He's a Lib Dem called Steve Webb. I began by asking him if
:12:10. > :12:16.he still thought the reforms might lead to pensioners splurging all
:12:17. > :12:20.their savings on supercars. What this reform is about is treating
:12:21. > :12:24.people as adults. For far too long, we have said, we will make sure you
:12:25. > :12:27.save for your old age and then we will control each year how much is
:12:28. > :12:32.spent on what you spend it on. What we are saying is because we have
:12:33. > :12:36.formed -- reformed the state pension, we will be much more
:12:37. > :12:40.relaxed about what people do with their own money. The evidence is
:12:41. > :12:44.that people who have been frugal and saved hard for retirement do not
:12:45. > :12:49.generally blows a lot. They will spin it out. It is treating people
:12:50. > :12:55.as adults and giving them choices they should have had all along. It
:12:56. > :13:01.is a red herring, isn't it? The average pension pot is between 5000
:13:02. > :13:08.and 30,000. Lamborghinis aren't an option, correct? I gather only about
:13:09. > :13:12.5000 people a year retiring can buy a flashy Italian sports car. It
:13:13. > :13:16.might be about paying off a mortgage, paying off outstanding
:13:17. > :13:19.debts. Maybe spending more money earlier in retirement when they are
:13:20. > :13:24.fit and able and can enjoy it more. We will give people guidance. We
:13:25. > :13:27.will make sure when they retire there is someone to have a
:13:28. > :13:31.conversation with talking through the implications of spending the
:13:32. > :13:40.money early and options of investing it. This will be a real step
:13:41. > :13:42.forward. Even if you have a much bigger pension pot, say half ?1
:13:43. > :13:46.million, which is way bigger than the average, even then the marginal
:13:47. > :13:53.rates of tax will be a disincentive to take it all out at once. You will
:13:54. > :13:59.lose huge chunks of it at the 4 % band and then the 45% band. The tax
:14:00. > :14:03.system gives you the incentive to spread it out if the tax threshold
:14:04. > :14:08.is a bit over 10000 and the state pension is a bit over 7000, the
:14:09. > :14:18.first 3000 you draw out in a given year is tax-free. The next band is
:14:19. > :14:21.at 20%. Spreading your money will mean you pay less tax. That is why,
:14:22. > :14:25.in general, people will not blow the lot up front. They will spread it
:14:26. > :14:31.out over their retirement. You have kept this policy quiet. Not even a
:14:32. > :14:37.hint. How did you test it? How did you make sure it would be robust?
:14:38. > :14:42.You did not do a consultation. I have been talking about freeing up
:14:43. > :14:46.the annuity market for a decade The idea of giving people more choice.
:14:47. > :14:49.The government has relaxed rules over this Parliament. It was not a
:14:50. > :14:53.completely new idea. We know in places like Australia and America,
:14:54. > :15:01.people have these freedoms. We already have something to judge it
:15:02. > :15:04.by. We will spend the next year talking to people, working it
:15:05. > :15:06.through. There will be a three-month consultation. I want people to have
:15:07. > :15:11.choices about their own money. There is detail still to be worked out and
:15:12. > :15:15.we are in listening mode about how we implement it. When you announce
:15:16. > :15:20.something you cannot do widespread consultation, for the reasons I have
:15:21. > :15:23.given, you do run the risk of unforeseen consequences? Pension
:15:24. > :15:27.companies this morning are indicating, you, the government can
:15:28. > :15:34.write you are looking for ?25 billion of infrastructure investment
:15:35. > :15:42.from us. You hold our shell below the water line. That may not happen.
:15:43. > :15:57.We spoke internally about the implications for instruction --
:15:58. > :16:05.infrastructure. It seems to me there will still be long-term investments.
:16:06. > :16:10.Many people want to turn their whole pot into an income. I understand the
:16:11. > :16:13.insurance companies are lobbying, but I'm convinced there will still
:16:14. > :16:19.be plenty of money for investment and infrastructure. If the
:16:20. > :16:26.Chancellor's pro-savings measures work, that will generate more
:16:27. > :16:31.savings. With no requirement now to buy an annuity, surely it is the
:16:32. > :16:39.case that pension pots are another ordinary savings fund, so why should
:16:40. > :16:44.they continue to get favourable tax treatment? Bear in mind that a lot
:16:45. > :16:48.of the tax treatment of pensioners is tax deferred so most people pay
:16:49. > :16:55.tax at the standard rate. If they put money into a pension, they don't
:16:56. > :17:02.pay tax when they earn it, but they do at retirement. We do want, we
:17:03. > :17:09.will still have automatic enrolment into workplace pensions, we do want
:17:10. > :17:15.people to build up, because at age 20 and 30 nobody thinks about
:17:16. > :17:19.retirement. It is still vital that people do reach retirement to have
:17:20. > :17:26.these new choices with a decent sized pension pot. Pensions. Tax
:17:27. > :17:29.breaks because they were supposed to provide an income in retirement
:17:30. > :17:36.that is how it was structured, but that is no longer a requirement
:17:37. > :17:42.surely that undermines the case that if they get tax breaks, other forms
:17:43. > :17:54.of savings should get tax breaks. Other forms do get tax breaks, of
:17:55. > :18:00.course. The return with ISAs is tax free. The point with pensions is
:18:01. > :18:09.that you are simply deferring your earnings. There is a bit when high
:18:10. > :18:13.tax rate payers get a kick when they are working and then retire on
:18:14. > :18:18.standard rate, so there is the issue of the top getting too many tax
:18:19. > :18:24.breaks, but the basic principle that you pay tax when you get the income
:18:25. > :18:29.seems right to me and isn't affected by these changes. You have announced
:18:30. > :18:34.save friendly measures, are we right to look at them as a consolation
:18:35. > :18:39.prize because savers have suffered from the Government's policy of
:18:40. > :18:44.keeping interest rates abnormally low? It is certainly the case that
:18:45. > :18:50.very low interest rates have been a huge boon to people of working age
:18:51. > :18:53.with mortgages, and people who have retired said they thought they could
:18:54. > :18:59.have got a better deal on their savings. I think there is a
:19:00. > :19:04.recognition that whilst we have done the right thing with pensioners on
:19:05. > :19:15.the state pension, we have brought in the triple lock, and many will
:19:16. > :19:21.bent on -- benefit from these changes. Why don't savers who are
:19:22. > :19:26.not pensioners get the same help? They have been hit by low interest
:19:27. > :19:31.rates as well. Those of working age, many of them say they have
:19:32. > :19:39.benefited from low interest rates was predominantly people in
:19:40. > :19:45.retirement have not had the benefit. Obviously people of working age will
:19:46. > :19:55.have benefited from the tax allowance so it is a myth to say the
:19:56. > :19:58.Budget was all about pensioners And yet even when the Office for Budget
:19:59. > :20:02.Responsibility takes into account your new measures, it still shows
:20:03. > :20:08.that over the next five years households will save less and less,
:20:09. > :20:15.indeed the savings ratio falls by 50%. You haven't done enough. One of
:20:16. > :20:19.the things we know is that the economy is picking up strongly, and
:20:20. > :20:23.as we have more confidence about the future they will be more willing to
:20:24. > :20:27.consume now, so without these measures it may be that the saving
:20:28. > :20:35.rate would have fallen further. We want people to save and spend, it is
:20:36. > :20:38.about getting the right balance As the economy picks up, people will
:20:39. > :20:45.want to spend more of their money and it is about getting the balance
:20:46. > :20:49.right. You make the point that if people are little profligate with
:20:50. > :20:53.their private pensions, they will have the state pension to fall back
:20:54. > :20:58.on and it will be higher than it has been, but it is also the case that
:20:59. > :21:03.in these circumstances they will still be entitled to housing benefit
:21:04. > :21:09.and even to perhaps some council tax benefit as well. Do you know by how
:21:10. > :21:15.much this could put the welfare bill up? We think the impact will be
:21:16. > :21:19.relatively modest because the sort of people who save for a pension and
:21:20. > :21:25.make sacrifices while they are at work are not the sort of people who
:21:26. > :21:30.get to 65 and decide to blow the lot for the great privilege of receiving
:21:31. > :21:32.council tax benefit or housing benefit. There will be people on the
:21:33. > :21:43.margins and benefit. There will be people on the
:21:44. > :21:46.who retire with some capital want to put some money away for their
:21:47. > :21:52.funeral. People like to save even into retirement so the myth of the
:21:53. > :22:00.spendthrift pensioner I don't believe. I think this has been
:22:01. > :22:07.rightly welcomed. Ever fancied a Lamborghini yourself? If you turned
:22:08. > :22:19.the camera around you would see my 2-door Corsa!
:22:20. > :22:22.What's your favourite thing about an election? Could it be the candidates
:22:23. > :22:25.ringing on your door while you're having dinner? The leaflets piling
:22:26. > :22:28.up on your doormat? Or the endless adverts aimed at hardworking
:22:29. > :22:31.families? Well, if you thought that was bad enough, then you might want
:22:32. > :22:34.to consider going overseas for the 2015 election because the parties
:22:35. > :22:39.are going to be aiming their message at you like never before. Adam's
:22:40. > :22:44.been to Worcester to find out more. One of the most famous political
:22:45. > :22:49.figures in history lived here, she is called Worcester woman. She was
:22:50. > :22:53.in her 30s, working class with a couple of kids, aspirational yet
:22:54. > :22:58.worried about quality of life. But she wasn't a real person, she was a
:22:59. > :23:03.label for the kind of voter new Labour were trying to reach and she
:23:04. > :23:10.was later joined by Mondeo man and several others. Doesn't that all
:23:11. > :23:16.seem a bit 90s? The technique, called segmentation, was used by
:23:17. > :23:21.George Bush in 2004. Then refined by Barack Obama. Rather than focusing
:23:22. > :23:26.on crude measures like cars and hometowns, they delved into the
:23:27. > :23:31.minds of voters. It is not just women, not just people who live in
:23:32. > :23:36.cities, but if you start to put together these groups of people you
:23:37. > :23:45.can even in an anecdote or way imagine who they are, what types of
:23:46. > :23:50.language and imagery might relate to them. We have been given access to a
:23:51. > :23:56.new polling model being used here by this firm, which is pretty close to
:23:57. > :24:00.the one we are told is being used by the Tories. It carves the country
:24:01. > :24:06.into six personality types, and we are trying it out on Worcester woman
:24:07. > :24:12.and wast of man. We are using an online quiz to work out who is in
:24:13. > :24:21.which segment. Meet new monk, Susie. She feels well represented. I
:24:22. > :24:28.know the Budget and the increases to childcare, I think at the moment I
:24:29. > :24:32.am fairly represented. This puts her in the category of optimistic
:24:33. > :24:37.contentment, people who feel they are doing OK. Terry, on the other
:24:38. > :24:46.hand, isn't happy about Britain today. Health and safety and all
:24:47. > :24:56.that! I hardly recognise the country a living in any more? Yes. Are you
:24:57. > :25:01.ready for the result? He is Mr comfortable nostalgia, they tend to
:25:02. > :25:05.favour the Tories and UKIP. They dislike the cultural changes they
:25:06. > :25:11.see as altering Britain for the worst. That sums me up. Tony is
:25:12. > :25:23.worried as well but feels much less secure. I look forward to the future
:25:24. > :25:33.with optimism or anxiety? Anxiety. Optimist or pessimist? Pessimist.
:25:34. > :25:39.His category is... You feel a bit insecure, you think the Government
:25:40. > :25:43.could probably help you more? Yes. Labour picks up a lot of these
:25:44. > :25:52.voters. This man is being asked to do more and more at work, but he is
:25:53. > :25:57.getting less and less. I am getting more towards the despair side.
:25:58. > :26:03.Things are getting tougher, generally? It puts him into the
:26:04. > :26:11.segment called long-term despair, people who feel left out. Finally,
:26:12. > :26:21.this is ever thoughtful Carol. I am a bit of an idealist. Her idealism
:26:22. > :26:25.makes her a cosmopolitan critic I am a liberal person. Apparently a
:26:26. > :26:31.lot of the media fit into this category as well. There is one group
:26:32. > :26:35.of voters we have not come across, people who show calm persistence.
:26:36. > :26:39.They hope things will get better but don't expect them to. They are
:26:40. > :26:45.coping, rather than comfortable Presumably they are all out of work.
:26:46. > :26:50.Which group are you win? You can take the poll on the BBC website,
:26:51. > :26:55.and in the coming weeks we will be doing our own polling using the six
:26:56. > :27:02.segments to see of the politicians really have worked out how we think.
:27:03. > :27:06.And as Adam said, if you want to try the survey for yourself, you can go
:27:07. > :27:07.to the BBC website and click on the link.
:27:08. > :27:18.And we're joined now by the pollster, Rick Nye. Welcome to
:27:19. > :27:24.Sunday Politics. We have had Worcester woman, Worcester man, is
:27:25. > :27:40.this any different? It is a recognition that or politician -
:27:41. > :27:48.all politics these days is like this. It enables them to cut them
:27:49. > :27:52.more finally. You think all politics is coalition politics, you think
:27:53. > :27:58.they have to put together these groups of people, not that the Lib
:27:59. > :28:04.Dems will always be in power? No, and if you listen to the coverage
:28:05. > :28:10.these days you might think it is about grumpy old men on the one hand
:28:11. > :28:13.with Guardian readers on the other. It is far more complicated than
:28:14. > :28:21.that, there is a lot of churning going on underneath which is driven
:28:22. > :28:24.by people's value systems. A lot of this has been pioneered in the
:28:25. > :28:29.United States, very sophisticated on their election techniques, and in
:28:30. > :28:34.Britain we are always the first to grab whatever the New Year will is
:28:35. > :28:39.from America. How do you think this will translate to this country? I
:28:40. > :28:44.think it means that if you are target photo you will still get the
:28:45. > :28:47.same of leaflets and people calling, but you will probably have different
:28:48. > :28:54.kinds of conversations because people on the other side, the party
:28:55. > :29:01.campaigners, will think they know more about you. Will I know who you
:29:02. > :29:05.are? If I am a party campaigner will I know, looking down the
:29:06. > :29:09.street, who fits into which category? You will be able to
:29:10. > :29:14.approximate that with all of the other data that you have gathered
:29:15. > :29:19.through polling, or doing local campaigning, that is the idea to
:29:20. > :29:25.make sense of this vast quantity of data people have about voters. We
:29:26. > :29:31.asked our panel to fill in your survey. Nick is optimistic
:29:32. > :29:37.contentment, 99%. He was 1% cosmopolitan critic, which is how he
:29:38. > :29:41.keeps his job at the Guardian. Polly's job could not be more
:29:42. > :29:48.secure, 100% cosmopolitan critics, and Janan Ganesh, optimistic
:29:49. > :29:53.contentment, which is what you would expect from a financial Times
:29:54. > :30:11.columnist. What do you make of this technique? Why are you only 99? It
:30:12. > :30:17.sounds really clever. 95% of the population five years ago voted
:30:18. > :30:21.Labour or the Conservatives. We have got away from that. It is coalition
:30:22. > :30:30.politics. You need sophisticated methods. Presumably you must not
:30:31. > :30:33.lose touch with basic points. You said it was used in the US
:30:34. > :30:39.presidential elections. Wasn't there them moment emit Romney 's sweet
:30:40. > :30:45.when the initial response was, we did not know the sort of people
:30:46. > :30:51.voted. His next response was, we did not know these people existed.
:30:52. > :30:56.Unless you know about certain key demographics, you are wasting your
:30:57. > :31:04.time. Is it important in modern campaigning? I think it is useful
:31:05. > :31:13.because it is about attitude. We have got Mosaic. We have got Acorn.
:31:14. > :31:17.It does not tell us very much. What people think and feel may be
:31:18. > :31:23.different to their income. You can be quite a high earner and anxious.
:31:24. > :31:25.You can be quite a low earner and feeling aspirational and optimistic
:31:26. > :31:33.about the future. I think this does get something else. In days gone by,
:31:34. > :31:38.particularly in America, overwhelmingly, if you are in the
:31:39. > :31:41.better of segment, you would be Republican and the blue-collar
:31:42. > :31:47.workers and some academics and Liberals voted Democrat. In the last
:31:48. > :31:50.election, the richest 200 counties in America voted Democrat. That is
:31:51. > :31:56.an attitude thing. Income does not tell you how people will vote. There
:31:57. > :32:01.is a huge, working-class base of support for the Republicans. It is
:32:02. > :32:06.unavoidable. Add a time when people no longer identify with ideologies
:32:07. > :32:19.or class blocks, you have to go the temperament and lifestyle and
:32:20. > :32:23.manageable. In America there were 128 segments according to lifestyle
:32:24. > :32:28.and Outlook. Once you get to that stage, it becomes close to useless.
:32:29. > :32:35.We were talking about the budget earlier. What other polls saying
:32:36. > :32:43.about the budget? The lead of labour has been narrowed over the
:32:44. > :32:50.Conservatives. -- Labour. Osborne and Cameron as an academic team have
:32:51. > :32:55.always had a lead over Miller band and Balls. This week it is about
:32:56. > :33:03.economic management. -- over Mr Miller band.
:33:04. > :33:14.Thank you for being with us today. It's just gone 11:30am. You're
:33:15. > :33:17.watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who
:33:18. > :33:18.leave us now for Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up here in 20
:33:19. > :33:41.minutes: Coming up later... Are schools ready
:33:42. > :33:44.to provide more support for children with medical problems like dpilepsy?
:33:45. > :33:48.We look at what the law says now. Both my guests in studio today have
:33:49. > :33:51.a particular interest in th`t subject. Paul Carter has bedn the
:33:52. > :33:55.leader of Kent County Counchl since 2005. Before that, he was in charge
:33:56. > :33:57.of education in the county. Also with us today the Labour Prospective
:33:58. > :34:00.Parliamentary Candidate for Crawley Chris Oxlade, who's also bedn a
:34:01. > :34:03.fundraiser for epilepsy charities. Welcome to you both. Let's start
:34:04. > :34:07.with what this week's budget means here in the South East. When George
:34:08. > :34:11.Osborne stood up at the Dispatch Box on Wednesday afternoon he whll have
:34:12. > :34:14.had a keen eye on the gener`l election next year. And before that
:34:15. > :34:18.of course you get to vote in local and European Elections in M`y. Will
:34:19. > :34:21.you be swayed by the Chancellor s measures on pensions or potholes?
:34:22. > :34:24.Maybe the VAT saving on fuel for the Kent Surrey and Sussex
:34:25. > :34:26.air`ambulances means the most to you. Then of course there's the
:34:27. > :34:30.Ebbsfleet house`building announcement. And we'll comd to that
:34:31. > :34:33.in a moment. Paul Carter, sdtting aside Ebbsfleet, because we will
:34:34. > :34:36.talk about that in more det`il, what is the one announcement frol your
:34:37. > :34:40.Conservative Chancellor that will make it easier for you to c`mpaign
:34:41. > :34:43.ahead of local, European and the general election? Well, I think
:34:44. > :34:45.there is something in it for everybody, as the Chancellor said.
:34:46. > :34:48.Certainly, for the silver s`vers, certainly, pension changes. I think
:34:49. > :34:51.everybody will be delighted, both businesses and individuals, that
:34:52. > :34:57.fuel duty has been frozen for a further period, which is good news
:34:58. > :35:01.for everybody. You mentioned the change to annuities that sole people
:35:02. > :35:05.prefer to as take your penshon pot and do what you like with it, is
:35:06. > :35:08.that enough to shore up Torx support? Against the UKIP strge in
:35:09. > :35:12.the south`east? I think it's a very good policy. I have always thought
:35:13. > :35:16.it was rather unfair that whth half of the pot you have to buy `n
:35:17. > :35:20.annuity and if you're not in good health when you get to that age you
:35:21. > :35:24.still have to buy an annuitx. So, I think there are all sorts of
:35:25. > :35:27.benefits there and I think lost importantly, it will liven tp those
:35:28. > :35:30.that provide those annuity policies to be more competitive and give
:35:31. > :35:45.their customers more than they have in the past. Chris, it would be
:35:46. > :35:48.interesting at the May elections, Crawley Borough Council, I lean
:35:49. > :35:51.Crawley generally, is prettx marginal when it comes to politics.
:35:52. > :35:55.You told me earlier, Labour needs just three seats to take ovdrall
:35:56. > :35:58.control, so what is going to make a difference? What's going to win you
:35:59. > :36:01.those three seats? The thing is what was missing from the btdget is
:36:02. > :36:05.really what is affecting Cr`wley people at the moment. There's a huge
:36:06. > :36:08.problem with low pay in the town, basically, there is a ?5,500
:36:09. > :36:11.difference from if you live and work in Crawley than if you work in
:36:12. > :36:15.Crawley and live outside Cr`wley. And also, there is nothing hn the
:36:16. > :36:18.budget that really affected anything from gas prices, electricitx prices
:36:19. > :36:21.or childcare. Bingo, beer, do they make a difference at all? Wdll, we
:36:22. > :36:24.saw from quite frankly the patronising ads that have bden
:36:25. > :36:27.flying around the social media, exactly what the Conservatives think
:36:28. > :36:31.about, so, although we have a big bingo hall right in the middle of
:36:32. > :36:34.Crawley, drinking 320 pints to get one free doesn't really appdal to
:36:35. > :36:38.most people. OK, so, for yot, it would have been about low w`ges Is
:36:39. > :36:41.that what you would have wanted a Labour Chancellor to promisd? It's a
:36:42. > :36:45.big issue in Crawley. We nedd to bring up that minimum wage like was
:36:46. > :36:48.promised up to ?7, where it's sitting at the moment, you're
:36:49. > :36:51.talking about just a few pence additions to people's incomds in
:36:52. > :36:54.Crawley. Paul Carter, do yot think the minimum wage is high enough in
:36:55. > :36:58.this country? I think it is appropriate. I think the good news
:36:59. > :37:01.is that unemployment is going down. And that unexpected growth figure in
:37:02. > :37:05.the economy is growing at 2.7% per year. Who would have dreamt of that
:37:06. > :37:08.three, four years ago. That's really good news. And benefits going up by
:37:09. > :37:12.inflation, linked to inflathon, over the coming years. OK. Well, let s
:37:13. > :37:15.stick with the budget and the most dramatic announcement for the South
:37:16. > :37:19.East. Plans to build a 'Garden City' of 15 thousand new homes in
:37:20. > :37:22.Ebbsfleet in Kent. Now, it's not the first time plans have been looted.
:37:23. > :37:25.In fact, permission was granted to start building there some ydars ago.
:37:26. > :37:28.Here's the Chancellor speakhng on Wednesday. Now, the opposithon have
:37:29. > :37:31.said that they have already announced their homes in Ebbsfleet a
:37:32. > :37:35.decade ago. And they did make the announcement, and you know how many
:37:36. > :37:39.homes have been built since then? Less than 300. It was more dbb than
:37:40. > :37:42.fleet, and instead, we're going to build 15,000 homes there, ptt in the
:37:43. > :37:45.infrastructure, set up the Development Corporation and make it
:37:46. > :37:49.happen. It was more ebb than fleet. Let's find out a little bit more on
:37:50. > :37:52.the details on this one. Let's hear from Doctor Hugh Ellis from the Town
:37:53. > :37:55.and Country Planning Associ`tion. Thank you for joining us. Do you
:37:56. > :37:59.welcome George Osborne's Ebbsfleet garden city? I think we do overall,
:38:00. > :38:03.although the reservations are certainly there. This is not a new
:38:04. > :38:07.amount of housing for the south`east. It has to be sahd in the
:38:08. > :38:11.context of us needing 240,000 new homes per year, so we do have a
:38:12. > :38:15.housing crisis to deal with. I think Ebbsfleet is a starting point on
:38:16. > :38:18.that basis, but we are keen to understand whether it's new housing
:38:19. > :38:20.or if you said, whether it's existing, planned housing, `nd what
:38:21. > :38:25.the quality will be, and particularly what the affordability
:38:26. > :38:28.will be. What does it need to be, to your mind? What is important when
:38:29. > :38:34.this house`building project does get under way properly? Well, what the
:38:35. > :38:38.Chancellor announced was a garden city, and if you're serious about a
:38:39. > :38:41.garden city, that is a very powerful and high bar. It means very high
:38:42. > :38:45.environmental standards, grden space, very powerful social housing
:38:46. > :38:48.offered. But it also means long`term assets in the community, usdd for
:38:49. > :38:52.the future benefit of that community. Because some of our
:38:53. > :38:56.garden cities are still using their funds to reinvest in the colmunity.
:38:57. > :39:00.It makes them financially self`sustaining. But all of us, of
:39:01. > :39:04.course, need some very careful planning and it needs investment in
:39:05. > :39:08.high quality. Is this why wd need an urban development Corporation?
:39:09. > :39:12.Because whether or not it's new or old housing that is being
:39:13. > :39:16.re`announced, it's got stuck. What does the Urban Development
:39:17. > :39:19.Corporation do to unstick it? Well, I guess some of the issues `t
:39:20. > :39:23.Ebbsfleet about joining up infrastructure provision and housing
:39:24. > :39:26.have proved difficult. That's mainly due to lack of investment, but the
:39:27. > :39:29.Urban Development Corporation is a body that is just very powerful
:39:30. > :39:33.that can organise and plan `nd give planning permission in a very
:39:34. > :39:37.effective and timely way. So, I guess that is what the government is
:39:38. > :39:40.trying to deliver. It raises issues about how the communities involved
:39:41. > :39:44.in that process would need to be sorted out. But on the whold, we
:39:45. > :39:47.welcome it, because it will drive the sort of housing growth that we
:39:48. > :39:50.need. You talked at the beghnning about the need for much higher
:39:51. > :39:53.house`building numbers than we're seeing here. Politically, this is an
:39:54. > :39:57.easy hit, isn't it? The comlunity pretty much has been expecthng there
:39:58. > :40:00.to be a lot of house`building in North Kent for years and ye`rs. I
:40:01. > :40:09.think in fact, they have bedn wondering where it is. It's also a
:40:10. > :40:12.Brownfield site. Some of thd infrastructure is there. Will other
:40:13. > :40:15.big developments of this nature be harder to sell? That's the crucial
:40:16. > :40:18.question. If you really want to deal with the Southeast housing crisis,
:40:19. > :40:22.you need to set housing provision in the context of England as a whole.
:40:23. > :40:25.You'd need a programme of ndw garden cities. Some in the Southeast, some
:40:26. > :40:28.elsewhere in England. And this really is the announcement of
:40:29. > :40:31.existing provision. So, if the government is serious, it ndeds a
:40:32. > :40:34.long`term strategy for houshng in this country. High`quality housing.
:40:35. > :40:37.Which really takes in the n`tion as a whole and factors in some of the
:40:38. > :40:41.opportunities and constraints that exist in the south`east. Th`nk you
:40:42. > :40:43.very much indeed, Dr Ellis from the Town and Country Planning
:40:44. > :40:46.Association. So, Paul Carter, let's pick up on this Urban Development
:40:47. > :40:49.Corporation, to try to make this stuck project actually start
:40:50. > :40:54.properly. Are you concerned about an unelected body getting control of
:40:55. > :40:56.planning in your county? Well, I hope local government and dhstrict
:40:57. > :41:00.councils and Kent County Cotncil have a role to play in that
:41:01. > :41:03.Corporation. But the Development Corporation will have at his
:41:04. > :41:07.disposal, some of the 200 mhllion that George Osborne announcdd on
:41:08. > :41:13.budget day. And it will delhver carrots and sticks. The carrots are
:41:14. > :41:17.a bit of money to help fund the necessary infrastructure. Btt the
:41:18. > :41:21.sticks, and we await the detail on that, have got to be the pace of
:41:22. > :41:27.delivery, because that site has had planning consent for many ydars now.
:41:28. > :41:30.OK, so can you punish Land Securities? They are developer here.
:41:31. > :41:33.Can you punish them for not getting on with it? Well, development
:41:34. > :41:36.corporations historically h`ve always had compulsory purch`se
:41:37. > :41:40.powers. So, get on with it, Land Securities, build a sensibld number
:41:41. > :41:44.of houses quickly. To a good quality and good standard. And to bd fair to
:41:45. > :41:47.Land Securities, the origin`l plans have always been for a very good
:41:48. > :41:53.quality development in eastdrn quarry. But with a threat h`nging
:41:54. > :41:57.over them that this could bd bought off them if they don't get on with
:41:58. > :41:59.that? Absolutely right. And the zone also includes the Swanscombd
:42:00. > :42:04.peninsula, where Paramount have got big plans and proposals which we
:42:05. > :42:07.would all like to see happen. Again, there has got to be some tilelines
:42:08. > :42:13.set, get the investment package together. But the planning consent
:42:14. > :42:16.and develop and corporations have speedier planning powers. Gdt on
:42:17. > :42:19.with the delivery, because that is what development corporations are
:42:20. > :42:21.there for. The London Dockl`nds Development Corporation was highly
:42:22. > :42:25.successful in lifting the Docklands and building at Canary Wharf. OK,
:42:26. > :42:29.let's bring Chris in on this. Does this sound undemocratic? Or do you
:42:30. > :42:31.think it is a good idea? I think, the thing is, you heard the
:42:32. > :42:35.Chancellor talking about re`announcing something has happened
:42:36. > :42:39.two years ago. It was announced that there would be 22,000 homes, so it's
:42:40. > :42:43.lost 7,000 homes in just a couple of years. And we do need to look at the
:42:44. > :42:46.big picture in general, bec`use the south`east, and if you take Crawley
:42:47. > :42:49.in particular, is landlocked. Every other district and authoritx is
:42:50. > :42:53.placing their development rhght on the edge of Crawley, so we've got to
:42:54. > :42:58.use their site. We need to be able to use the land that is there. But
:42:59. > :43:01.the delay here predates this coalition government. You hdard the
:43:02. > :43:05.quote there from George Osborne that under Labour, it's been mord ebb
:43:06. > :43:08.than fleet. A great choice of words! It's true. This has been mooted
:43:09. > :43:13.since well into the last Labour government. From what I unddrstand,
:43:14. > :43:16.there have been a lot of issues over the years. I think Paul listed a
:43:17. > :43:19.whole load of people that gdt involved with these decisions. And
:43:20. > :43:23.that has been the issue, thd time delay. But again, announcing it two
:43:24. > :43:27.years ago and losing all of those homes, it is quite an interdsting
:43:28. > :43:30.take from the Chancellor. C`n I say that local government has not
:43:31. > :43:33.dragged its feet in any way. Not Dartford Council, not Gravesham not
:43:34. > :43:36.Kent County Council. We havd done everything to help support `nd
:43:37. > :43:39.facilitate and flex to enable Land Securities to build the significant
:43:40. > :43:43.numbers of homes. And we're disappointed with the current
:43:44. > :43:45.ambition. This means local democracy doesn't work. Here you both are
:43:46. > :43:49.representatives of local delocracy, and yet the government's decision is
:43:50. > :43:54.to hand it over to another tnelected group. Does that worry you? Well,
:43:55. > :43:57.let's hope in partnership whth local government, because we're hdre to
:43:58. > :44:01.help and assist, but we awaht that detail. OK, let me bring yot back
:44:02. > :44:05.in, Chris, because you grew up in, you work in, you represent Crawley,
:44:06. > :44:09.a new town. I know it very well I grew up just a few miles aw`y in
:44:10. > :44:12.Horsham. What would you say are the lessons of Crawley, the dos and
:44:13. > :44:16.don'ts? Crawley has been designed. There are problems in Crawldy, but
:44:17. > :44:19.for the most part, we have kept low high`rise. We've made sure that the
:44:20. > :44:23.living conditions for peopld and the environment is somewhere th`t people
:44:24. > :44:26.want to come and live in Cr`wley and work in Crawley. And the problem is,
:44:27. > :44:29.like I mentioned before, because it is landlocked, there's a very, very
:44:30. > :44:33.small space for Crawley. And also, with the issues with Gatwick
:44:34. > :44:36.Airport, we have an awful lot of land that is held off from the
:44:37. > :44:40.possible expansion at Gatwick. And because we have got land all around
:44:41. > :44:43.us, Horsham have just placed a two and half thousand home development
:44:44. > :44:47.on the edge of Crawley. Milds away from Horsham. It's turning hnto one
:44:48. > :44:50.big city by the sounds of it, Crawley and Horsham. What wd need to
:44:51. > :44:54.do, it's like under Labour's right to grow, because we need to be able
:44:55. > :44:57.to use that land and the current administration, this governlent has
:44:58. > :45:00.basically put in ideas that authorities have to work together.
:45:01. > :45:03.But there is no actual determination to make that actually happen. Sounds
:45:04. > :45:07.like it might be tense on the Crawley Horsham border. Let's move
:45:08. > :45:10.on to the story I mentioned at the beginning that you both havd a
:45:11. > :45:14.serious interest in. If your child has a long`term medical condition
:45:15. > :45:18.you may find it hard to get the help they need at school. But a new law
:45:19. > :45:21.that came into effect this week means that, from September, schools
:45:22. > :45:23.will be obliged to put in place specialist support not just for
:45:24. > :45:26.children with special education needs, but for children with medical
:45:27. > :45:32.problems too. Like epilepsy. Sara Neville reports from West Stssex.
:45:33. > :45:39.Sonny comes from a large falily They work together, play together,
:45:40. > :45:45.each together. 11`year`old Sophie Beadon from Crawley has epilepsy and
:45:46. > :45:50.mild learning difficulties. But her epilepsy is a hidden problel.
:45:51. > :45:54.Because seizures happen at night. Often leaving her feeling exhausted
:45:55. > :45:58.during school. Sophie is at a special school. She pulled out of
:45:59. > :46:04.mainstream education where she found school life difficult. Sophhe could
:46:05. > :46:07.probably have stayed in a m`instream school, if they were aware of her
:46:08. > :46:14.illness, they were educated about her illness. Understood it. There
:46:15. > :46:20.are 40 different kinds of epilepsy which affects over 100,000 xoung
:46:21. > :46:24.people in the UK, or one in 200 To put that into context, it is an
:46:25. > :46:34.average of one child in every primary school or five in every
:46:35. > :46:38.secondary school. Currently, experts say school support for suffdrers is
:46:39. > :46:42.a lottery. But from Septembdr, for the first time, schools will have a
:46:43. > :46:47.legal duty to give individu`l support to children with medical
:46:48. > :46:51.conditions like epilepsy. Working alongside other agencies in health
:46:52. > :46:58.and welfare. And it is vulndrable children like Sophie who ard at the
:46:59. > :47:02.heart of the changes. The Children And Families Act is a huge step for
:47:03. > :47:05.children who suffer from ephlepsy. This is because it recognisds the
:47:06. > :47:08.problem that they have in tdrms of learning and sometimes behavioural
:47:09. > :47:10.problems in the classroom and introduces a requirement for schools
:47:11. > :47:18.to have tailored support packages for them. Here in Lingfield, the
:47:19. > :47:21.charity Young Epilepsy runs a unique facility to assess children with the
:47:22. > :47:25.condition. Researchers have known for years that there is a lhnk
:47:26. > :47:29.between epilepsy and poor academic progress. Now, they have proved it
:47:30. > :47:32.conclusively with the compldtion of a pioneering three`year study
:47:33. > :47:38.carried out in 40 West Sussdx schools. It reveals for the first
:47:39. > :47:44.time that 95% of children whth epilepsy are failing to fulfil their
:47:45. > :47:55.potential. Often due to learning or behavioural issues that are missed
:47:56. > :47:58.by teachers. Ready? Steady? Go. There are no final details from
:47:59. > :48:01.government about how schools should implement the new laws. The charity
:48:02. > :48:06.says there are questions about schools' readiness. We know that the
:48:07. > :48:08.current system is failing on people with epilepsy. Even people who have
:48:09. > :48:14.got epilepsy that seems well`managed, they are still
:48:15. > :48:17.failing. A lot of owners will go on to the schools. Schools would be
:48:18. > :48:20.required to provide support plans for young people, and what Xoung
:48:21. > :48:24.Epilepsy is saying, we can help you. We've developed a tool that will
:48:25. > :48:29.help schools, teachers, to be able to assess the needs of young people
:48:30. > :48:32.with epilepsy. The government says nationwide there is a raft of
:48:33. > :48:36.support available to help authorities prepare for the reforms.
:48:37. > :48:41.Including a ?70 million grant for changes in special educational
:48:42. > :48:44.needs. And ?30 million to rdcruit and train almost 2,000 so`c`lled
:48:45. > :48:50.champions who will guide parents through the new system. But
:48:51. > :48:53.mainstream teachers say thex will need ongoing support and
:48:54. > :49:00.collaboration to make the rdforms work. Rather than simply sax, it's
:49:01. > :49:03.another expectation on schools, there must be some support. Schools
:49:04. > :49:06.will need help. They'll need to work together and they will need some
:49:07. > :49:11.sort of structure, I think, provided for this. And could there also be
:49:12. > :49:17.unintended consequences for the young people who are meant to
:49:18. > :49:21.benefit? The pressure over time will be that mainstream schools `re more
:49:22. > :49:23.reluctant to take on some youngsters who have complex needs, which are
:49:24. > :49:27.going to impair their acadelic progress, and we are possibly likely
:49:28. > :49:30.to see an increase in referrals to special schools who are alrdady
:49:31. > :49:40.under enormous pressure to leet an increasing demand of complex needs
:49:41. > :49:44.youngsters. Sophie's experidnce is not uncommon and it is hoped that
:49:45. > :49:49.this new act will transform the way children with additional nedds are
:49:50. > :49:53.supported at school. But thdre is still a lot to do. And the puestion
:49:54. > :49:55.remains, will schools be re`dy or able to take on this extra
:49:56. > :50:04.responsibility? Chris, for the first time, children
:50:05. > :50:07.like Sophie with epilepsy and other medical conditions also will have
:50:08. > :50:11.the right to expect their school to teach them, but also look after them
:50:12. > :50:15.accordingly. That has got to be a good thing? Absolutely. One of the
:50:16. > :50:18.flaws in the system has been this sort of multi`agency approach where
:50:19. > :50:22.the communication hasn't bedn great. But with the new scheme, wh`t we're
:50:23. > :50:25.aiming at is that the parents sit down with a different multi`agency
:50:26. > :50:29.from the start. And actuallx work out in detail what is best for their
:50:30. > :50:32.child. So there is more involvement from the parents and the chhld.
:50:33. > :50:35.Absolutely. West Sussex County Council along with Paul's atthority
:50:36. > :50:39.Kent County Council, have bden piloting some of the ideas here
:50:40. > :50:42.what has been learned so far, do you think? So far, it's giving what
:50:43. > :50:46.parents want. It's making stre that we listen to what the parents needs
:50:47. > :50:49.are, and what their child ndeds to go to a special school for
:50:50. > :50:52.mainstream education. It's whatever is best for that family and for that
:50:53. > :50:56.child as well. But addition`lly Paul Carter, the thing that parents,
:50:57. > :50:59.I have heard this every timd I speak to somebody with a child with
:51:00. > :51:03.special education needs, thdy talk about battles and fights. Is the
:51:04. > :51:06.fight and the battle going to go away with this new legislathon or
:51:07. > :51:09.will it still be there to gdt what you want, what you believe xour
:51:10. > :51:13.child needs? Well, I quite understand that parents alw`ys want
:51:14. > :51:16.to do the very best for thehr child. And going through the statelent
:51:17. > :51:19.process is never easy. Therd's gatekeeping and thresholds to be
:51:20. > :51:23.set, to make the best use of public money and to provide the very best
:51:24. > :51:26.educational support. And th`t can be bureaucratic and a big fog for a
:51:27. > :51:30.number of parents. This adds another layer to that, because it is not
:51:31. > :51:33.just a statement of educational need, it is a statement of
:51:34. > :51:36.educational and health need. And my concern is that the primary health
:51:37. > :51:39.providers, GPs and others, haven't yet woken up to the responshbility
:51:40. > :51:45.that is coming their way from September this year. But it is also
:51:46. > :51:48.coming to school, and I guess this is the question, Paul, this is a big
:51:49. > :51:51.ask for schools and for loc`l authorities. But is there enough
:51:52. > :51:56.money there to do what the legislation requires? There's some
:51:57. > :51:59.additional money to go throtgh the new process. It's ?70 million. And
:52:00. > :52:02.that is only to go through the process, that is not year`on`year.
:52:03. > :52:06.There are 34,000 schools in Britain. I know it will not be handed out
:52:07. > :52:10.evenly, but just assuming it was, that is ?4,000 per school, that is
:52:11. > :52:14.not a lot of money. But in ly view, it is not just the education
:52:15. > :52:17.providers that have to provhde the extra support. There's a massive
:52:18. > :52:20.demand and need for speech `nd language therapists in schools that
:52:21. > :52:23.should be provided by the hdalth side of the partnership working
:52:24. > :52:26.This statement of health nedd will make the providers of the hdalth
:52:27. > :52:33.provision deliver that into the schools alongside the education
:52:34. > :52:36.provision. I think there is a big communication issue to make sure
:52:37. > :52:43.that the health providers rdalise the responsibilities that are now
:52:44. > :52:46.coming their way. But children spend most of their time in schools and
:52:47. > :52:50.the schools are only being charged, Chris Oxlade, with using, and this
:52:51. > :52:55.is the quote, using their bdst endeavours to provide what ` child
:52:56. > :52:59.needs. That's a bit vague. Ht is. But the thing is, it needs to go
:53:00. > :53:02.back to the start again, because we need to find out exactly wh`t those
:53:03. > :53:05.children and what those famhlies need. There's no point putthng them
:53:06. > :53:10.into the mainstream education or even to a special school if that is
:53:11. > :53:13.not what is best for them. So, the old system was talking to dhfferent
:53:14. > :53:16.agencies at different times and the whole process this time will be
:53:17. > :53:20.actually sitting down right at the start and making sure we iddntify
:53:21. > :53:23.what those needs are. And P`ul is right. With the health servhce, it
:53:24. > :53:27.is making sure that with thd break`up of the health servhces that
:53:28. > :53:30.you look at in West Sussex, although it is closer working in somd areas,
:53:31. > :53:32.it is making sure the implementation, which I'm ddeply
:53:33. > :53:35.concerned about... Although the parents come back very proactively
:53:36. > :53:38.and in support of this procdss, what will happen from September when it
:53:39. > :53:42.actually comes in? The government haven't said exactly what is going
:53:43. > :53:46.to happen and that is the bhg concern. Thank you both verx much.
:53:47. > :53:49.And now for a round`up of the other political events that you mhght have
:53:50. > :53:53.missed this week with James Fitzgerald.
:53:54. > :53:57.The future of loss`making M`nston Airport is up in the air. It's begun
:53:58. > :54:01.a consultation over the possible closure. The government said the
:54:02. > :54:04.move was disturbing. Locals were concerned about job losses. The
:54:05. > :54:08.whole of Ramsgate and Margate is just going downhill, isn't ht?
:54:09. > :54:11.Eastbourne Lib Dem Stephen Lloyd has taken up the cause of the f`mily of
:54:12. > :54:14.Lance Corporal Michael Prichard whose death in friendly fird in
:54:15. > :54:18.Afghanistan may have resultdd from poor equipment. There's the apology
:54:19. > :54:21.which I will be pressing and also, I want assurances that there has been
:54:22. > :54:24.a real learning here. Canterbury MP Julian Brazier believes that he s
:54:25. > :54:27.found legislation within thd Local Government Act that would allow
:54:28. > :54:32.councils ban the sale of legal highs. Home Office Minister Norman
:54:33. > :54:38.Baker, also the MP for Lewis, said he would consider it. Laura Sands,
:54:39. > :54:41.the MP for South Thanet has launched EU plus, a campaign for continued
:54:42. > :54:47.relationship with the Europdan Union plus global trading opportunities.
:54:48. > :54:50.We need to reform, but we nded to know that our future is within
:54:51. > :54:57.Europe and making and shaping Europe.
:54:58. > :55:02.OK, we have got the Ebbsfledt announcement, could Manston Airport
:55:03. > :55:06.be another site for a major housing development? Well, let's go through
:55:07. > :55:12.the 45 day consultation with staff. I think there is still a little hope
:55:13. > :55:15.there. Do you want it to st`y as an airport? Of course. I have worked
:55:16. > :55:18.enormously hard. I have alw`ys said it is one of the biggest potential
:55:19. > :55:21.drivers of increasing significantly employment in East Kent. And East
:55:22. > :55:24.Kent needs more employment opportunities. So, enormously sad.
:55:25. > :55:27.We need to work with the new owners, work with the government and see
:55:28. > :55:31.whether there is the possibhlity of any sort of rescue plan. Chris, you
:55:32. > :55:34.have got Gatwick in your prospective constituency, for everyone hn the
:55:35. > :55:37.south`east, who is west of @shford, that is their local airport, they do
:55:38. > :55:40.not need Manston, do they? Gatwick has gone from strength to strength
:55:41. > :55:43.and obviously there is the prospective second runway issue
:55:44. > :55:46.coming later in 2015. We nedd to diversify a little bit with travel,
:55:47. > :55:52.and particularly with air travel in the south`east. It's very s`d for
:55:53. > :55:56.Manston and the staff and the people that work there. Thank you very much
:55:57. > :55:59.indeed, nice to meet you, Chris with his very first Sunday Politics
:56:00. > :56:04.in the south`east and Paul, thank you too. That is all we havd got
:56:05. > :56:07.time for this week. My thanks to our guests, Paul Carter and Chrhs
:56:08. > :56:08.Oxlade. Natalie will be herd next week with more politics frol the
:56:09. > :56:23.South East. decision, she will weigh up the
:56:24. > :56:39.The big news is the popular server is struggling to control all of the
:56:40. > :56:44.people who want to find out where they fit in the political spectrum.
:56:45. > :56:48.It hasn't quite crashed but it is queueing up those people. Who would
:56:49. > :56:58.have thought the Sunday Politics had so many viewers? It has never
:56:59. > :57:01.happened on the X factor. This morning's papers don't make
:57:02. > :57:04.comfortable reading for Labour with two separate polls showing the
:57:05. > :57:07.party's lead over the Tories is down to just one point. And there's been
:57:08. > :57:10.plenty of criticism of Ed Miliband's response to the Budget. Let's take a
:57:11. > :57:13.look. You know you are in trouble when even the Education Secretary
:57:14. > :57:26.calls you and out of touch bunch of elitist. Where is he? He is hiding!
:57:27. > :57:33.I think he has been consigned to the naughty step by the Prime Minister.
:57:34. > :57:37.The naughty step! And we're joined now by shadow chief secretary to the
:57:38. > :57:41.Treasury, Chris Leslie. There was a widely criticised response by Ed
:57:42. > :57:48.Balls to the Autumn Statement, now a widely criticised response by Ed
:57:49. > :57:53.Miliband to the Budget. Does this show you are struggling at the
:57:54. > :57:59.moment? Of course Ed Balls and Ed Miliband don't want to hear the fact
:58:00. > :58:03.that in reality, for most people, life is getting harder and there is
:58:04. > :58:12.the cost of living crisis. Did we get any mention of that in the
:58:13. > :58:16.Budget? Of course we didn't. We were waiting for action on the cost of
:58:17. > :58:21.living and it wasn't forthcoming. Ed Miliband came up with the tactic of
:58:22. > :58:27.responding to the Budget without mentioning anything that was in it.
:58:28. > :58:30.He mentioned the fact the personal tax allowance was a bit of a
:58:31. > :58:37.giveaway but he takes more with the other hand. He is in favour of that,
:58:38. > :58:42.right? Anything we can get but we need a lot more. Let me tell you
:58:43. > :58:50.something else he mentioned, the fact the national debt has risen by
:58:51. > :58:54.a third and George Osborne and David Cameron... They knew that before the
:58:55. > :58:59.Budget. The borrowing figures were announced and Ed Miliband made
:59:00. > :59:04.reference to those. There is not a lot of happiness on Labour
:59:05. > :59:09.backbenchers about this, is there? And indeed not a lot of happiness in
:59:10. > :59:15.the shadow cabinet. There is concern that Ed Miliband is on a journey to
:59:16. > :59:18.remodel world capitalism whilst George Osborne is firing some love
:59:19. > :59:23.bombs at Middle England by talking about freeing up the pensions market
:59:24. > :59:28.and there is real nerves that what Ed Miliband is saying is not going
:59:29. > :59:34.to be in tune with those middle income earners that the Labour Party
:59:35. > :59:41.has got to attract if they are going to win the general election. When
:59:42. > :59:45.Rachel Reeves used the medium of Radio 4 to announce you were broadly
:59:46. > :59:48.in favour of the pension reforms announced by the Chancellor on
:59:49. > :59:58.Friday night, was that a result of a decision taken by the shadow
:59:59. > :00:05.cabinet? Is With annuities, they are a very old-fashioned product. There
:00:06. > :00:12.are some serious questions which need to be addressed. Was that the
:00:13. > :00:17.result of a Shadow Cabinet decision? We have not had a Shadow
:00:18. > :00:21.Cabinet since the budget. We all want to make sure that we understand
:00:22. > :00:27.the point about flexibility. No one is arguing with that. There are some
:00:28. > :00:30.serious concerns. Let me give you a couple of examples. This is
:00:31. > :00:35.something the Chancellor has done, he claims, for reasons of freedom
:00:36. > :00:39.and flexibility. Is it a coincidence he is grabbing quite a lot of tax
:00:40. > :00:46.from pensioners early on to plug a hole which is necessary because the
:00:47. > :00:52.deficit has not gone down? Forgive me for being slightly cynical about
:00:53. > :00:57.motives. For or against it? We need to have safeguards for protection of
:00:58. > :01:01.pensioners. What will it do for the annuity market if most people still
:01:02. > :01:09.want to have a steadying come for a third of their lives? -- steady
:01:10. > :01:17.income. What does Labour have to do to get it show back on the road The
:01:18. > :01:21.question is, how do people feel How many people will still not be
:01:22. > :01:25.feeling better by the next election? Wages may be rising slightly but not
:01:26. > :01:30.for a large and significant number of people. They were just looking at
:01:31. > :01:33.the YouGov poll. If you look at the middle to low earners, they are
:01:34. > :01:39.overwhelmingly pro-labour. Can Labour get those people out to vote?
:01:40. > :01:43.They are really hurting. There are plenty of them. The question is
:01:44. > :01:47.whether people are optimistic because they see figures as if they
:01:48. > :01:53.look as if they are on the up or whether they vote according to how
:01:54. > :01:57.they feel, which will still be very far behind. Cost of living has been
:01:58. > :02:03.a major mantra from Labour. That's that this chart shows how things are
:02:04. > :02:08.beginning to change. What this shows is that, sometime this year, after a
:02:09. > :02:12.long time at which average earnings trailed inflation, they now overtake
:02:13. > :02:20.it in the run-up to the election and they stay there for the forecast
:02:21. > :02:25.period. What do you now do if your cost of living mantra is running out
:02:26. > :02:30.of steam? I am not sure that, for most people, they will recognise the
:02:31. > :02:32.sense that suddenly things will be getting better. Particularly the
:02:33. > :02:39.younger generation are really feeling quite down about the
:02:40. > :02:46.pressures they are facing to make ends meet. You can see the lines are
:02:47. > :02:51.exaggerated because the Y axis on the side starts quite high up. It
:02:52. > :02:54.does not start at zero. The other statistic from the OBR is that we
:02:55. > :02:59.will not be getting back to the point where wages are exceeding
:03:00. > :03:06.prices from the pre-banking crisis period until late 2017. There are
:03:07. > :03:10.some really serious pressures that people are under. What they wanted
:03:11. > :03:16.was a budget that would address concerns and, for the vast majority
:03:17. > :03:21.of people, they will have heard the statement by George Osborne and
:03:22. > :03:29.think, how is it really help them now? It did not address it. It is
:03:30. > :03:34.clear that by 2015, average living standards will probably not have
:03:35. > :03:38.returned to where they were in 2010. Average wages will not have
:03:39. > :03:42.done that. On the other hand, the chart shows the sense of direction
:03:43. > :03:48.is moving in the right way. Which one matters more with the
:03:49. > :03:51.electorate? I suspect it is sense of direction. People sense of
:03:52. > :03:56.prosperity does not need to be buoyant. It has to be something
:03:57. > :04:02.worth preserving. We have to fear the all turn. That is what intrigued
:04:03. > :04:06.me this week. People make too much of a fuss about the Parliamentary
:04:07. > :04:12.response by Ed Miliband. People will forgive a bad day at the dispatch
:04:13. > :04:19.box. What they will not forgive is the absence of a macro economic
:04:20. > :04:23.mess. Labour have a very powerful message on living standards and lots
:04:24. > :04:29.of popular, targeted interventions like the energy price freeze. You
:04:30. > :04:34.can imagine they will be sufficiently nervous about that next
:04:35. > :04:43.year. If living standards are not back to where they were, Labour can
:04:44. > :04:50.say, are you better off now than when you were four years ago? The
:04:51. > :05:03.reason why break and -- wallowed waken one that is because Jimmy
:05:04. > :05:11.Carter mucked it up -- Ronald Reagan. Labour have to say, vote for
:05:12. > :05:15.us and you will get 2 million homes. At the moment, the offer is very
:05:16. > :05:18.modest. You need to find the money to do that. People need to
:05:19. > :05:22.understand that housing is at the very heart of the economy, as well
:05:23. > :05:29.as young people and their aspirations. At the moment, Labour
:05:30. > :05:32.'s offer is not spectacular in. If the focus group shows the cost of
:05:33. > :05:38.living crisis have no longer has the attraction it did, what line do you
:05:39. > :05:41.move onto? Yellow McCoy must remind people of the wasted years and the
:05:42. > :05:48.cost of living pressures they have been under. -- we must remind
:05:49. > :05:57.people. We want a recovery which has low growth, low wage. A race to the
:05:58. > :06:04.bottom. They want a recovery that is felt by everyone, shared and felt by
:06:05. > :06:08.all. Now, here's an idea to twist your melon. Mark Berry, better known
:06:09. > :06:11.as Bez, it says here he's a member of something called The Happy
:06:12. > :06:14.Mondays, wants to stand for parliament. He's best known for
:06:15. > :06:19.being in a band, and not doing very much, so he might fit in. Here he is
:06:20. > :06:48.in action. And Bez joins us from our Salford
:06:49. > :06:55.studio. Good to see you. Is this a genuine candidacy or are you
:06:56. > :07:04.twisting my melon? Amazing how time flies when you're having fun! You
:07:05. > :07:09.having fun doing this candidacy I am doing the job of the politicians
:07:10. > :07:14.and standing up for the people and bringing attention to the horror of
:07:15. > :07:18.fracking, which is a totally unsafe technology. There is no one in
:07:19. > :07:24.mainstream politics who is discussing or saying anything about
:07:25. > :07:28.it. It is an unsafe technology and it has been proven in America. You
:07:29. > :07:38.see the process in America and the people out on the streets. The whole
:07:39. > :07:43.atmosphere has been made toxic. These people are allowing it to
:07:44. > :07:49.happen in the name of profit. This has been a Labour seat you are
:07:50. > :07:55.fighting in Salford since 1945. It is a tough mountain. Supposing you
:07:56. > :08:01.were to win, could you ever see yourself entering a coalition? With
:08:02. > :08:05.a bit of luck I may be able to shame Labour politicians to do the job
:08:06. > :08:09.properly and stand up for the rights of people. They are not and I am
:08:10. > :08:14.having to do that job. All I am doing is causing debate and bringing
:08:15. > :08:18.to attention the horror that is hanging on our doorsteps. It is not
:08:19. > :08:23.only fracking but GM modified foods that they want to bring into this
:08:24. > :08:32.country as well. Owen Paterson is one of the main lobbyists. Lobbying
:08:33. > :08:37.is legalised bribery, by the way. It is run by the bankers. Basically, we
:08:38. > :08:42.have to stop these monsters from getting into our country and turning
:08:43. > :08:48.our land into a toxic waste. That is what I am trying to say. You are
:08:49. > :08:54.raising the debate, as you are doing with us here. We do not really need
:08:55. > :08:58.fracking. You have done that and you have talked about other things as
:08:59. > :09:06.well. In terms of a new integrity, if you were to become an MP, would
:09:07. > :09:09.you claim expenses? If I ever do get in charge, I would completely enter
:09:10. > :09:14.the banking system and there would be expensive, but they would be like
:09:15. > :09:18.bus passes and train passes. You behave like the people and you are
:09:19. > :09:24.in touch with the people, you move with the people and do understand
:09:25. > :09:28.what the people want. You do not live in acre Kuhn of your own making
:09:29. > :09:35.of luxury, wealth and total disregard of everyone else. -- a
:09:36. > :09:39.cocoon. If you did get into the Palace of Westminster and had to
:09:40. > :09:45.mingle with all these people, who would you rather have in night out
:09:46. > :09:54.with - Mr Cameron, Mr Miller band or Mr Clegg? I would be willing to
:09:55. > :10:02.discuss politics with anybody. I would make them realise what they
:10:03. > :10:08.are doing. I am glad too have a debate and with anyone. The people
:10:09. > :10:15.of Salford, quite a lot people people behind me. I have been
:10:16. > :10:23.speaking to Salford councillors They are going to lend me their
:10:24. > :10:29.support. The people of Salford, and not to forget the people of Eccles,
:10:30. > :10:33.sending you much. We must stop this horror. There is a monster on our
:10:34. > :10:39.doorstep and we must stop it, people. Do not forget to take your
:10:40. > :10:47.maracas on campaign trail. Would you like a pair to shake yourself? You
:10:48. > :10:53.shake your maracas against fracking! Thanks, Bez, goodbye. Thank you for
:10:54. > :11:00.giving me a little platform to express my views. Now if there's one
:11:01. > :11:03.thing that gets us hot under the collar here at the Sunday Politics
:11:04. > :11:06.it's European elections. The only thing we like more than the
:11:07. > :11:10.elections themselves is a TV debate about them. And we're in luck! Take
:11:11. > :11:14.a look at this. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome leader of
:11:15. > :11:21.the Liberal Democrats and Deputy Prime Minister, Nick Clegg. Gives
:11:22. > :11:30.the most fantastic welcome to Nigel Farage. I would challenge Nigel
:11:31. > :11:37.Farage to a public, open debate about whether she we should be out
:11:38. > :11:48.all in of the European Union. I will do it for Nick Clegg. Since 200 , I
:11:49. > :11:54.have taken part in 45% of votes in the European Parliament. Nigel
:11:55. > :12:02.Farage has not tabled a single amendment since July 2009. Mr Clegg
:12:03. > :12:10.has only taken part in 22% of votes in the House of commons. You can
:12:11. > :12:22.watch the debate at 7pm on the nd of April over on BBC Two. And for a
:12:23. > :12:25.chance to be part of the studio audience on the night and put your
:12:26. > :12:28.question to the two party leaders, e-mail the question you'd like to
:12:29. > :12:30.ask to europedebate@bbc.co.uk or tweet it using the hashtag
:12:31. > :12:33.#europedebate. And Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage will be limbering up
:12:34. > :12:41.this week with their first debate on LBC radio on Wednesday. Who is going
:12:42. > :12:47.to come out the best? I suspect Nigel Farage. It is easy to portray
:12:48. > :12:52.Nick Clegg as morally compromised, who has not asserted himself in
:12:53. > :12:56.government. I do wonder about Nigel Farage, whether he is much better at
:12:57. > :13:01.delivering a popular line and responding to the second question of
:13:02. > :13:06.third question. Nick Clegg will win it hands over fist because he knows
:13:07. > :13:09.this stuff. He is right. The evidence that he can produce about
:13:10. > :13:17.what will happen if we pulled out of Europe will, I think, overwhelm
:13:18. > :13:24.Nigel Farage 's one-liners. They will both be winners because you
:13:25. > :13:29.will have the rare sight of the pro-European saying he likes the
:13:30. > :13:34.European Union. That is unlike Eurosceptics who tie themselves up
:13:35. > :13:48.in knots. 14 Nigel, one for Nick and one for both. There you go. Here is
:13:49. > :13:51.a mess, it is Janen Ganesh. That's all for today. The Daily Politics is
:13:52. > :13:55.on BBC Two at Lunchtime every day this week, I'll be back here next
:13:56. > :13:56.week with Energy Secretary Ed Davey. Remember if it's Sunday, it's the
:13:57. > :14:02.Sunday Politics.