:00:35. > :00:38.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics, where we're talking
:00:39. > :00:47.about the Europe-wide contest that really matters. No, not Eurovision.
:00:48. > :00:50.The European elections. There are local elections across England too
:00:51. > :00:54.on May 22nd. The party leaders are campaigning ahead of polling day.
:00:55. > :01:00.The results could be a pointer to the Big One, May 2015. We'll be
:01:01. > :01:03.speaking to the man in charge of Labour's election battle plan. Has
:01:04. > :01:07.the opposition really got its sights set on all-out victory in 2015? Or
:01:08. > :01:13.will it just be content with squeaking home? And you can't
:01:14. > :01:18.mention elections these days without talking about the impact of this
:01:19. > :01:27.What would make you bought for the him if UKIP really
:01:28. > :01:29.What would make you bought for the Labour Party?
:01:30. > :01:30.elections in the capital's 32 boroughs. What will make a
:01:31. > :01:41.difference to the way you vote? And I'm joined by three journalists
:01:42. > :01:44.guaranteed to bring a touch of Eurovision glamour to your Sunday
:01:45. > :01:47.morning. With views more controversial than a bearded
:01:48. > :01:57.Austrian drag act and twice the dress sense, it's Nick Watt, Helen
:01:58. > :01:59.Lewis and Janan Ganesh. So you might have thought you've already heard
:02:00. > :02:03.David Cameron promise an in-out referendum on EU membership in 2017
:02:04. > :02:09.if he's still Prime Minister. Many times. Many, many times. Well he
:02:10. > :02:12.obviously doesn't think you've been listening, because he's been saying
:02:13. > :02:16.it again today. Here he is speaking to the BBC earlier. We will hold a
:02:17. > :02:21.referendum by the end of 2017. It will be a referendum on an in-out
:02:22. > :02:24.basis. Do we stay in a reformed European Union or do we leave? And
:02:25. > :02:27.I've said very clearly that whatever the outcome of the next election,
:02:28. > :02:30.and of course I want an overall majority and I'm hoping and
:02:31. > :02:34.believing I can win an overall majority, that people should be in
:02:35. > :02:42.no doubt I will not become Prime Minister unless I can guarantee that
:02:43. > :02:47.we will hold a referendum. Here's saying there that an overall
:02:48. > :02:51.majority there will definitely be a referendum. If these are the
:02:52. > :02:56.minority position, he won't form a new coalition unless they agree to a
:02:57. > :02:59.referendum, too. The Lib Dems a pulmonary agree to that. They
:03:00. > :03:03.probably will because the Prime ministers have a strong argument
:03:04. > :03:07.which is I gave you a referendum back in 2010 so the least I need is
:03:08. > :03:11.theirs and the Lib Dems are the only party who have stood in recent
:03:12. > :03:15.elections on a clear mandate to hold a referendum, so it is difficult for
:03:16. > :03:19.them to say no, there was interesting the interview he did
:03:20. > :03:23.earlier today. He named everything was going to ask for. The most
:03:24. > :03:27.controversial with him, as he said in his speech last year, he wants to
:03:28. > :03:33.take Britain out of the commitment to make the European Union and ever
:03:34. > :03:37.closer union. That is a very big ask, but the point is, he may well
:03:38. > :03:40.get it because the choice for the European Union now, France and
:03:41. > :03:46.Germany, is a clear wonderful do Britain in or out? Previously, it
:03:47. > :03:49.was can you put up with a British prime ministers being annoying? I
:03:50. > :03:54.think you'll find the answer is they are willing to pay a price but not
:03:55. > :03:58.any price to keep Britain in. In this scenario, Labour would have
:03:59. > :04:04.lost the election again because we are talking the slowly happen if Mr
:04:05. > :04:08.Cameron is the largest party or has an overall majority. Could you then
:04:09. > :04:12.see Labour deciding we had better go along with a referendum, too? I
:04:13. > :04:15.think that's unlikely because as I think that's unlikely because
:04:16. > :04:17.there's a huge upside for that for I think what's interesting is the idea
:04:18. > :04:22.he would for minority government. Would you get confidence and look at
:04:23. > :04:26.other options that might well happen with the way the arithmetic is going
:04:27. > :04:28.or is he going to hold out and say the only way I will be Prime
:04:29. > :04:33.Minister is in a majority Conservative government? No, the
:04:34. > :04:37.implication of his remarks was I wouldn't form a coalition government
:04:38. > :04:42.unless my coalition partners would also agree to vote for a referendum.
:04:43. > :04:46.He's basically talking about is negotiating strategy in those
:04:47. > :04:51.coalition talks. It's a red line and a huge opportunity for the Lib Dems,
:04:52. > :04:55.because they know David Cameron absolutely has to do, for accidental
:04:56. > :04:59.reasons, as a person who survives as Tory leader, to ask for that
:05:00. > :05:04.referendum, so they can ask anything they want in return and if I was
:05:05. > :05:07.Nick Clegg, I would work out in the next year one absolute colossal
:05:08. > :05:14.negotiating demand for those coalition talks. For a party around
:05:15. > :05:17.10% in the polls, they will do have the Prime Minister over a barrel on
:05:18. > :05:28.this one, assuming that coalition talks goes well. They could make
:05:29. > :05:32.Michael Gove Tbyte meeting. OK, we need to move on. So, the politicians
:05:33. > :05:35.are out and about on what used to be called the stump ahead of local and
:05:36. > :05:38.European elections in less than two weeks' time. But, without wanting to
:05:39. > :05:41.depress you on a damp Sunday morning, the party strategists are
:05:42. > :05:44.already hard at work on their campaign plans for the General
:05:45. > :05:47.Election next May. Yes, it's less than a year to go. They may have
:05:48. > :05:50.taken their time, but Labour's battleplan for 2015 is starting to
:05:51. > :05:53.take shape. As well as take promising to freeze your energy
:05:54. > :05:56.bills, and reintroduce the 50p rate of tax, Ed Miliband now says he
:05:57. > :06:01.wants to intervene in the housing market to keep rents down. There's
:06:02. > :06:07.even talk that the party leadership wants to bring more railway lines
:06:08. > :06:10.into public ownership. And Labour is gambling that its big push on the
:06:11. > :06:14.cost of living will see it through to the general election despite
:06:15. > :06:17.evidence that growth is firmly back. Labour's campaign chief Douglas
:06:18. > :06:24.Alexander hopes it all adds up to victory next May. But so far, the
:06:25. > :06:28.evidence is hitting home very thin. One survey today shows that 56% of
:06:29. > :06:33.people don't think Mr Miliband is up to the job of Prime Minister. As we
:06:34. > :06:36.head towards one of the least predictable general elections in 70
:06:37. > :06:41.years, has Labour got a message to win seats up and down the country?
:06:42. > :06:48.And Labour's election co-ordinator and Shadow Foreign Secretary,
:06:49. > :06:51.Douglas Alexander, joins me now. Welcome to Sunday Politics. A lot of
:06:52. > :06:55.these policies announced polar pretty well. By popular with the
:06:56. > :07:01.country. When you add them together, it's a move to the left and what
:07:02. > :07:04.would be wrong with that? I think is your packet suggests, the contours
:07:05. > :07:10.in the coming campaign are becoming clear. Our judgement is the defining
:07:11. > :07:13.issue of the year in British politics will be the widening gap
:07:14. > :07:16.between the wealth of the country and the finances of ordinary
:07:17. > :07:20.families. We believe it will be a cost of living election and we have
:07:21. > :07:23.been setting out our thinking in relation to energy prices and rent,
:07:24. > :07:27.but you will hear more from Labour Party in the coming months because
:07:28. > :07:31.we're now less than one year away from a decisive moment. If the
:07:32. > :07:36.leftish think tank suggested any of his policies in that Tony Blair
:07:37. > :07:42.years, you would have opposed them. Let's be clear, when not going for
:07:43. > :07:45.an interest but seeking to secure a majority for the only way to do that
:07:46. > :07:48.is not simply to appeal to your base, but to the centre ground. I
:07:49. > :07:54.believe we got genuine opportunities in the next year. You have the
:07:55. > :07:58.Conservatives in a struggle with UKIP on the right of politics. The
:07:59. > :08:02.Lib Dems 9% of trying to find their base, and there's a genuine
:08:03. > :08:07.opportunity in the next year for Labour to dominate the centre ground
:08:08. > :08:11.of politics and secure the majority Labour government we are planning
:08:12. > :08:21.for in the coming year. I notice you didn't deny you wouldn't have
:08:22. > :08:25.opposed. You say you have got an message for aspirational voters in
:08:26. > :08:28.the South. This is what John Denham said. He thinks you're talking too
:08:29. > :08:44.much to your core vote. He is right to recognise we took a
:08:45. > :08:47.terrible beating in 2010. 29%. If you look at what we've done in the
:08:48. > :08:53.last week, for example, the signature policy on rent Ed Miliband
:08:54. > :08:56.announced to launch the campaign, there's now more than 9 million
:08:57. > :09:01.people in the country in the private rented sector, more than 1 million
:09:02. > :09:03.families. Many of them are in the south-east. They are seeing
:09:04. > :09:09.circumstances where, suddenly, landlord will increase the rent and
:09:10. > :09:13.they put the pressure involved in schooling, health care facing the
:09:14. > :09:16.families, so it is important both in terms of policy and in terms of
:09:17. > :09:20.politics that we speak to the whole country, not simply to one part of
:09:21. > :09:28.it falls up what is the average rise in event last year? I don't know.
:09:29. > :09:35.Can you tell me? 1%. 1% not in real terms. I'm not sure what the problem
:09:36. > :09:39.is. It will happen to wages in last year, we are facing circumstances
:09:40. > :09:45.where people will be worse off, up to ?1600 off worse and frankly, if
:09:46. > :09:50.our opponents want to argue that the economy has healed and they deserve
:09:51. > :09:54.a victory lap, good luck to them because actually, what we are
:09:55. > :09:59.hearing from the Buddhist public, not just in the north and south, is
:10:00. > :10:02.not the cost living crisis is continuing and it affects families.
:10:03. > :10:07.There was nothing aspirational about your party election broadcast for
:10:08. > :10:11.the European elections. It looked like crude class war to money
:10:12. > :10:15.people. That's a bit of it. Bedroom tax. Isn't it going to look bad that
:10:16. > :10:20.two thirds of those affected are disabled? Who cares? They can't
:10:21. > :10:29.fight back. Shall be lay-offs and NHS nurses? The National Health
:10:30. > :10:39.Service? Oh yes. Mr Cameron? Who said that? Me. My gosh. The man has
:10:40. > :10:44.shrunk. He's actually shrunk. What shall we do with him? Can we hunt
:10:45. > :10:50.him? Nothing about Europe, Labour policy. News that the Tories would
:10:51. > :10:56.result in negative campaigning and smear. You didn't tell you would be
:10:57. > :11:00.just as bad. Let's start the party broadcast. The one thing guaranteed
:11:01. > :11:06.to have most people reaching for the remote control these days are the
:11:07. > :11:10.words, there now follows a party but the broadcast. I make no apology in
:11:11. > :11:14.the factory to be innovative in how we presented. It's factual. It was a
:11:15. > :11:19.policy -based critic of this government. And the Lib Dems role
:11:20. > :11:23.within it. So you're claiming it's factual to betray the camera and
:11:24. > :11:31.cabinet is not even knowing what the NHS is, -- the Cameron Cabinet. They
:11:32. > :11:36.attack the disabled because they can't fight back. The Pinellas
:11:37. > :11:43.Tanner severely Prime Minister Sun and he was treated during a short
:11:44. > :11:46.life by the NHS. It's a fact many disabled people across the country
:11:47. > :11:50.including in my constituency have been directly affected by the
:11:51. > :11:53.bedroom tax. And ultimately, this Conservative led government,
:11:54. > :11:59.including the Lib Dems, will be held accountable by the politicians. You
:12:00. > :12:03.say that, the Prime Minister, who had a severely disabled son of. I
:12:04. > :12:10.you not ashamed about? I shadowed Iain Duncan Smith of five months
:12:11. > :12:13.also they don't have the excuses of seeing that saying nobody told them
:12:14. > :12:16.the consequences of the bedroom tax. They went into this with their eyes
:12:17. > :12:20.open. They knew about the hardship and difficulty. If they were
:12:21. > :12:23.one-bedroom properties available across the country for people to
:12:24. > :12:30.move into, their argument would be OK but they knew they were dealing
:12:31. > :12:33.with the most vulnerable people. Did you sign off that part of the
:12:34. > :12:39.broadcast? Of course I stand by the fact of it. I wish David Cameron and
:12:40. > :12:43.Iain Duncan Smith would apologise to the disabled people of the country
:12:44. > :12:47.and the poorest people for the effects of the bedroom tax. I hope
:12:48. > :12:52.we get that apology between now and election. As someone who thinks
:12:53. > :12:58.integrity is important in politics, not ashamed of this kind of thing?
:12:59. > :13:01.It's important we scrutinise the policies of this government as well
:13:02. > :13:08.as adding a positive agenda for change. You want that you won't
:13:09. > :13:13.promise this is the last time we'll see such a negative press campaign?
:13:14. > :13:16.I don't think it is negative or personal to scrutinise the
:13:17. > :13:20.government. So we'll get more of this? I'm less interested in the
:13:21. > :13:26.background of the cabinet than their views. You call the upper-class
:13:27. > :13:29.twits. It's for the British public to make a judgement in terms of the
:13:30. > :13:37.British... That's how you depicted them. We are held in accountable for
:13:38. > :13:41.the bedroom tax, the NHS, taxation, and our record they have to defend.
:13:42. > :13:46.One reason are so fearful in this election is actually because they
:13:47. > :13:51.know they have a poor record. Let's look at other part of the election
:13:52. > :13:56.campaign. This poster. Particularly digitally doing the rounds. On that
:13:57. > :14:03.shopping basket, can you tell us which items take the full 20% VAT?
:14:04. > :14:06.It's representative of household shopping, which includes items like
:14:07. > :14:18.cleaning products, and we know that food is not that trouble. People
:14:19. > :14:26.don't go to the supermarket and say this is -- vatable. So you are
:14:27. > :14:34.denying that ?450 extra is being paid? Yes, where'd you get that
:14:35. > :14:41.figure? For an average family to pay ?450 a year extra VAT, they would
:14:42. > :14:47.have to spend ?21,600 a year on vatable products at 20%. The average
:14:48. > :14:52.take-home pay is only 21,009. They have got to spend on all sorts of
:14:53. > :14:56.things which are zero VAT. So in addition to the items, has a range
:14:57. > :15:02.of products people face in terms of VAT. How could an average family of
:15:03. > :15:11.?21,000 a year spent 21,006 and the pound a year on 20% vatable items?
:15:12. > :15:20.It's not an annual figure, is it? So what is it then? If it's an annual,
:15:21. > :15:23.what is it? The increased VAT in this parliament is calculated over
:15:24. > :15:31.the course of a Parliament. For the whole of the Parliament? And you're
:15:32. > :15:36.illustrated this with a shopping basket which almost has no VAT on it
:15:37. > :15:39.at all? People will be buying a weekly shop in the course of this
:15:40. > :15:44.Parliament every week. Did you sign off on this as well? Of course. It
:15:45. > :15:49.didn't dawn on you you're putting things on it which have no VAT? If
:15:50. > :15:54.you want to argue some people go to the shops and say these are vatable
:15:55. > :16:02.or not, I disagree. Even your rent cap announcement went wrong. You're
:16:03. > :16:12.working on the rent rises and it turns out it wasn't. It was a post
:16:13. > :16:16.your policy. It is the exception rather than the rule to have the
:16:17. > :16:20.position we have at the moment. In Northern Ireland we have seen the
:16:21. > :16:23.continued rise in terms of the rented sector but there is a
:16:24. > :16:31.widespread recognition that for those people in the rented sector,
:16:32. > :16:38.change is necessary. Are you coordinating this campaign? It seems
:16:39. > :16:46.accident prone. This is a party that has set the agenda more effectively
:16:47. > :16:50.than a Conservative party that said when David Cameron was elected he
:16:51. > :16:58.wasn't going to bang on about Europe. The day after the election
:16:59. > :17:05.we expect the Conservative party to be engulfed in crisis. I'm proud of
:17:06. > :17:08.what we talk about and I think there is a clear contrast about a party
:17:09. > :17:14.talking about issues people care about, and a Conservative party
:17:15. > :17:21.talking about exclusively a referendum. Are you in charge of the
:17:22. > :17:26.campaign? I am coordinating the campaign is, yes. The expensive
:17:27. > :17:32.election guru you have hired, has he been involved in any of this? We
:17:33. > :17:36.have started our discussions with him. You are going to have to brief
:17:37. > :17:43.him about British politics because he doesn't know anything about it. I
:17:44. > :17:49.make no apology for hiring him. He has a lot of experience in winning
:17:50. > :17:55.tight elections and that is what we are expecting. If you are expecting
:17:56. > :18:02.us to say, they have passed and we have to hold them accountable, then
:18:03. > :18:05.I am sorry but we have a campaign that holds the Government and the
:18:06. > :18:16.Conservatives to account for what I think is a very hopeless record in
:18:17. > :18:20.government. Thank you. He leads a party with zero MPs but
:18:21. > :18:23.his media presence is huge. He's had an expenses scandal, but the public
:18:24. > :18:25.didn't seem to mind. He's got a privileged background but he's seen
:18:26. > :18:29.as an anti-establishment champion. Nothing seems to stick to him, not
:18:30. > :18:32.even eggs. I speak of course of Nigel Farage. We'll talk to him in a
:18:33. > :18:35.moment, but first Giles has been out on the campaign trail ahead of
:18:36. > :18:38.elections that could make or break the UKIP leader.
:18:39. > :18:41.Nigel Farage likes a stage, and at this stage of the Euro and local
:18:42. > :18:46.election campaign he is, like his party, in buoyant mood. They feel
:18:47. > :18:51.they are on the verge of what they see as causing an earthquake in
:18:52. > :18:56.British politics. Today Nigel is filling thousands seat venues and
:18:57. > :19:04.bigger. Not that there's much sign of that at this press launch. But
:19:05. > :19:07.it's a threat with serious money behind it, that they believe the
:19:08. > :19:10.media and the political elite just haven't realised yet, much less
:19:11. > :19:12.learned how to counter it. Not that it's all been plain sailing.
:19:13. > :19:15.Offensive comments from some candidates has not only seen UKIP
:19:16. > :19:21.labelled as racist, but necessitated a rally by the party to visibly and
:19:22. > :19:25.verbally challenge that. The offensive idiotic statements made by
:19:26. > :19:28.this handful of people have been lifted up and presented to the great
:19:29. > :19:34.British public as if they represent the view of this party, which they
:19:35. > :19:45.do not. They never have and they never will. APPLAUSE
:19:46. > :19:54.I don't care what you call us, but from this moment on, please do not
:19:55. > :20:03.call must trust a racist party. We are not a racist party.
:20:04. > :20:06.The need to say that is not just about the European and local
:20:07. > :20:09.elections even at that campaign launch it's clear UKIP's leader has
:20:10. > :20:12.set his sights firmly on the ultimate prize. I come from the
:20:13. > :20:15.south of England and I would not want to be seen as an opportunist
:20:16. > :20:20.heading to the north, north Norfolk or whatever it will be. I will make
:20:21. > :20:26.my mind up and stand in the general election for somewhere in Kent, East
:20:27. > :20:30.Sussex, Hampshire, somewhere in my home patch. Back at UKIP HQ they are
:20:31. > :20:40.still drilling down how the last fortnight of campaigning should go.
:20:41. > :20:43.They aren't taking any chances, and one imagines having offices above
:20:44. > :20:46.those of Max Clifford is a reminder how fragile built reputations can be
:20:47. > :20:49.of the bubble bursting. They want their reputation to be built on
:20:50. > :20:52.votes and they know anything but significant success on May 22nd and
:20:53. > :20:59.some seats in Westminster in 2015 isn't going to be good enough. And
:21:00. > :21:02.after that, having sold yourselves as the honest outsiders, that stance
:21:03. > :21:06.is harder to maintain once your people are on the inside. And subtle
:21:07. > :21:12.changes from the past are already noticeable. The ordinary man of the
:21:13. > :21:15.people stance is still working. Characteristically outside a pub,
:21:16. > :21:21.Nigel Farage is glad handed by a customer. Two weeks to go, let's
:21:22. > :21:26.cause an upset. Wouldn't that be great? The only sign that such an
:21:27. > :21:38.interaction is different now is the ever presence of bodyguards who
:21:39. > :21:41.shadow his every move. Over lunch ahead of Question Time, a radio
:21:42. > :21:45.appearance, and then off to Scotland, I ask him if some of those
:21:46. > :21:48.minded to vote UKIP who see him as a man they'd be comfortable having a
:21:49. > :21:51.drink with are the sort of people he'd be entirely comfortable sitting
:21:52. > :21:53.down with. Every political party attracts support from across the
:21:54. > :22:02.spectrum and there will be some magnificent people who vote for us
:22:03. > :22:07.and some ne'er-do-wells. The one common thing about UKIP voters is
:22:08. > :22:11.that they are often not very political. And it's that people's
:22:12. > :22:13.army that if UKIP can get to a polling booth might just create that
:22:14. > :22:20.earthquake they want. Nigel Farage joins me now. When you
:22:21. > :22:24.decided not to stand at the new work by election coming said if you lost
:22:25. > :22:44.it that the bubble would have burst. What did you mean by that? I
:22:45. > :22:50.was asked at seven 20p -- at 7:21pm if I would stand, I have decided by
:22:51. > :22:57.the next morning that I would not. I didn't know he was going to resign.
:22:58. > :23:00.You claim only a handful of UKIP candidates have ever said things
:23:01. > :23:09.that are either stupid or offensive, I'm right on that, yes? 0.1%, I'd
:23:10. > :23:12.rather it was non-. But why have you chosen a candidate to fight this
:23:13. > :23:19.by-election that has said many things most people would regard as
:23:20. > :23:24.stupid or offensive? Roger is fighting this for us, someone of 70
:23:25. > :23:29.years of age who grew up with a strong Christian Bible background,
:23:30. > :23:33.in an age when homosexuality was imprisonable. He had a certain set
:23:34. > :23:37.of views which he maintained for many years which he now says he
:23:38. > :23:43.accepts the world has moved on and he is relaxed about it. The comments
:23:44. > :23:50.about homosexuality are not from the dark ages, they are from two or
:23:51. > :23:56.three years ago. From when he was a Conservative, yes, so will you be
:23:57. > :24:00.asking David Cameron that question? I have never seen a single comment
:24:01. > :24:05.from Roger that would be deemed to be offensive. Do you regard his
:24:06. > :24:10.comments on homosexuality as offensive? When he grew up,
:24:11. > :24:20.homosexuality was illegal in this country. But this was in 2012 but he
:24:21. > :24:30.said that. Most people have his age still feel uncomfortable about it --
:24:31. > :24:38.of his age. In 2012 he said, if two men can be married, why not three,
:24:39. > :24:42.why not a commune. Many people in this country are disconcerted by the
:24:43. > :24:45.change in the meaning of marriage and in a tolerant society we
:24:46. > :24:51.understand that some people have different views. But he has changed
:24:52. > :25:01.his views now in only two years? He says he is more relaxed about it.
:25:02. > :25:06.Was he your candidate? He is a first-class campaigner who has had
:25:07. > :25:11.30 years in industry, he served in the European Parliament, he is a
:25:12. > :25:15.good candidate. This morning's papers suggest you are about to
:25:16. > :25:21.select Victoria Ayling for Grimsby, but she is on camera saying that, of
:25:22. > :25:24.immigrants, I just want to send a lot back. This is all very
:25:25. > :25:29.interesting, and we can talk about it, all we could talk about the fact
:25:30. > :25:34.that in 12 days we have a European election and every voter across the
:25:35. > :25:40.UK can vote on it and it is really interesting. Are you happy to pick a
:25:41. > :25:48.candidate that says of immigrants, I just want to send a lot back? I have
:25:49. > :25:55.seen the tape, it is a complete misquote and she says it in the
:25:56. > :26:01.context of illegal immigrants. I have seen the full quote and in the
:26:02. > :26:05.context it is not about illegal immigrants. Let's come onto the
:26:06. > :26:10.European campaign, you have used a company that employs Eastern
:26:11. > :26:14.European is to deliver leaflets in London and the Home Counties. Have
:26:15. > :26:20.we? I'm told that in Croydon one branch might have done that. Have
:26:21. > :26:25.you found some indigenous Brits to deliver leaflets in Europe? We have
:26:26. > :26:29.thousands joining the party every month and they are not all
:26:30. > :26:35.indigenous because what is interesting is that in today's
:26:36. > :26:46.opinion polls, UKIP is above the Lib Dems and the Conservatives amongst
:26:47. > :27:01.the indigenous voting. We have not agreed a manifesto for
:27:02. > :27:09.the general election, we will do over the course of the summer. This
:27:10. > :27:12.is in your local election. We are having local elections in some part
:27:13. > :27:16.of the country but we are fighting a European election. It is impossible
:27:17. > :27:23.with the British media to have an intelligent debate on the European
:27:24. > :27:27.question. But as I say, we are also fighting the local elections too.
:27:28. > :27:33.You have promised these tax cuts, how much will they cost? I have met
:27:34. > :27:38.-- read the local election manifesto and it doesn't make those promises.
:27:39. > :27:43.We do talk about local services, we do talk about the need to keep
:27:44. > :27:50.council tax down but we don't talk about income tax. Absolutely not. In
:27:51. > :27:57.local election campaigning you say you would restore cuts to policing,
:27:58. > :28:04.double prison places, restore cuts to front line NHS, spend more on
:28:05. > :28:09.roads, how much would that cost? You are obviously reading different
:28:10. > :28:12.documents to me. We are voting for local councillors in district
:28:13. > :28:19.councils who have got little local budgets. Every party in a manifesto
:28:20. > :28:26.puts his aspirations in it. Have you read it? Of course I have, cover to
:28:27. > :28:32.cover, which is why I'm saying you are misquoting it. By the way, on
:28:33. > :28:39.the bubble bursting, you told that to Norman Smith of the BBC. 75% of
:28:40. > :28:44.British laws are now made in the European Union. Now AstraZeneca is
:28:45. > :28:49.potentially going to be taken over by Pfizer. The BBC is refusing to
:28:50. > :28:53.show the public that that decision cannot be taken here but by an
:28:54. > :29:01.elected European commissioner, and we sit and argue about what is in or
:29:02. > :29:11.not in the local election manifesto. It is my job, but let me come on to
:29:12. > :29:18.AstraZeneca. Is it your view that a British government should stop the
:29:19. > :29:28.takeover of AstraZeneca? It cannot. Can we please get this clear. I sat
:29:29. > :29:33.next to Chuka Umunna the other day at question time and he said what
:29:34. > :29:37.could and couldn't be done. He said I am being studiously neutral, and
:29:38. > :29:44.the reason is we don't have this power. That is what the European
:29:45. > :29:56.elections is about. Should France have the takeover of the food
:29:57. > :30:05.company Danan? We seem to do things to the Nth degree and nobody else
:30:06. > :30:09.does, perhaps because we have this culture and we obey it. In your
:30:10. > :30:17.view, you don't think Pfizer should be able to take over AstraZeneca?
:30:18. > :30:22.There is some good science within AstraZeneca which is in danger of
:30:23. > :30:29.being asset stripped and lost. Because it is run by a Swede and a
:30:30. > :30:34.Frenchman and most of its employees are overseas. I understand that but
:30:35. > :30:38.there are still some good science being produced here. What did you
:30:39. > :30:43.think of the Prime Minister saying he would not form a government after
:30:44. > :30:51.the election unless he was able to have a referendum in 2017? I sat
:30:52. > :30:56.here talking to you and you said to me that David Cameron had given a
:30:57. > :30:58.cast-iron guarantee that if David Cameron becomes Prime Minister he
:30:59. > :31:04.will have a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, but he didn't deliver on
:31:05. > :31:09.that. He knows that people struggle to believe the renegotiation is
:31:10. > :31:13.worth a row of beans. He is saying he will not form a government unless
:31:14. > :31:17.he can go forward with the referendum. I know he is desperately
:31:18. > :31:21.trying to pretend to be Eurosceptic whilst at the same time saying he
:31:22. > :31:26.will campaign for Britain to remain in. In a sense, that is what this
:31:27. > :31:29.election is about. We have three traditional parties, all of whom
:31:30. > :31:33.passionately believe in the continued membership of the European
:31:34. > :31:38.Union and we have UKIP saying we want trade and cooperation but there
:31:39. > :31:45.is a bigger and better world out there. You are now travelling with I
:31:46. > :31:53.think four bodyguards, has this affected you and your family life? I
:31:54. > :31:57.can't stand it. I've always wondered about the place and on my own thing.
:31:58. > :32:01.Sadly we have a couple of organisations out there headed up by
:32:02. > :32:05.senior Labour Party figures who purport to be against fascism and
:32:06. > :32:09.extremism, who received funding from the Department of communities, from
:32:10. > :32:13.the trade unions, who have acted in a violent wait more than once. You
:32:14. > :32:19.are saying the Labour Party is behind the threats? No, I said a
:32:20. > :32:22.taxpayer funded, trade union funded and headed by senior Labour Party
:32:23. > :32:26.figures, and I'm happy for them to come to my meetings and have an
:32:27. > :32:30.itinerant with me, but it's not so much fun when there are banging you
:32:31. > :32:35.over the head. I is still keen to be an MP? Yes, what UKIP will then do
:32:36. > :32:41.is target before the general election next year for the one life
:32:42. > :32:46.be easier if you just went to the Lords? That's the last thing I want
:32:47. > :32:51.to do. There's an awful lot to do. Most of all, I will not rest until
:32:52. > :32:53.we are free from political union and government from Brussels. Nigel
:32:54. > :32:56.Farage, thank you for being with us. It's just gone 11.30am. You're
:32:57. > :32:59.watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who
:33:00. > :33:02.leave us now for Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up here in 20
:33:03. > :33:04.minutes, our panel talks about the big stories of the week. First
:33:05. > :33:14.I'm Julia George and this is the though, the
:33:15. > :33:22.I'm Julia George and this is the Sunday Politics in the South East.
:33:23. > :33:30.Coming up later: Just what is the most important issue for you come
:33:31. > :33:34.polling day? Are We'll be taking a look at whether immigration really
:33:35. > :33:40.is as important to voters as many politicians might have us think.
:33:41. > :33:43.This is the second of our three special programmes on the elections
:33:44. > :33:49.taking place across the South East on 22nd May. Last week we took a
:33:50. > :33:53.look at the Liberal Democrats and the Greens ` and this week we turn
:33:54. > :33:55.our sights towards the Labour Party. Next week it'll be the Conservatives
:33:56. > :33:59.and UKIP. And so, joining me in the studio
:34:00. > :34:02.today are two people who hope to be heading to the European Parliament
:34:03. > :34:06.to represent their parties in the South East ` Nirj Deva, currently a
:34:07. > :34:09.serving MEP for the Conservative Party and Anneliese Dodds, who is
:34:10. > :34:11.standing for Labour. Welcome to you both.
:34:12. > :34:14."The cost of living crisis" ` the campaign mantra for Ed Miliband's
:34:15. > :34:18.labour party that he hopes will cut through with you, the voters. But in
:34:19. > :34:22.the South East, the party faces quite a challenge ` and the
:34:23. > :34:25.elections here on the 22nd May are being seen as an indicator for
:34:26. > :34:28.Labour's prospects in a year's time at the next general election. Sara
:34:29. > :34:38.Neville went to Crawley ` a key target seat for the party.
:34:39. > :34:43.Another door, another potential vote. With just two weeks to go
:34:44. > :34:47.until the local and European elections, campaigning in the South
:34:48. > :34:50.East is hotting up, and here in the West Sussex town of Crawley, Labour
:34:51. > :34:56.are taking on the Tories. I wish you the best of luck.
:34:57. > :35:00.Labour ran Crawley Borough Council for 33 years until 2006. It's
:35:01. > :35:04.currently held by the Conservatives, but the Tories only need to be
:35:05. > :35:07.defeated in three seats to lose their overall control. However it's
:35:08. > :35:15.not just the local authority that Labour is pursuing. The real prize
:35:16. > :35:20.would be to reclaim the parliamentary seat next year. The
:35:21. > :35:23.Shadow Chancellor Ed Balls made that clear when he visited Crawley last
:35:24. > :35:26.week to launch Labour's European and local election campaign in the South
:35:27. > :35:30.East, an area dominated by the Conservatives.
:35:31. > :35:35.At the moment there is a Tory council in Crawley. I think we have
:35:36. > :35:38.got a real chance in the next few weeks for Labour to take back
:35:39. > :35:41.control in Crawley and start building the affordable homes we
:35:42. > :35:47.need, standing up for working people who are worried about social care
:35:48. > :35:50.and the safety of communities. And if we can win the local elections
:35:51. > :35:54.that lays the foundations to take this seat back in 2015, but I will
:35:55. > :36:00.not take any of the seats for granted.
:36:01. > :36:03.But how likely is a Labour win? In 2010 Labour collapsed in the South
:36:04. > :36:09.East, losing all 12 of their parliamentary seats. They currently
:36:10. > :36:12.have just one MEP out of ten in the region and hold just two local
:36:13. > :36:19.authorities outright and one minority administration.
:36:20. > :36:22.The cost of living debate is at the centre of Labour's election campaign
:36:23. > :36:27.at a time when the economy is looking up. It could still chime
:36:28. > :36:30.with the voters here, but would a comeback in Crawley signal the
:36:31. > :36:36.beginning of a resurgence for the party across the region?
:36:37. > :36:39.Labour are going to need a big key to unlock the South East and the
:36:40. > :36:43.evidence suggests that they are losing ground in the South East in
:36:44. > :36:49.particular. They may well have some victories in the local elections on
:36:50. > :36:53.May 22. That is understandable when we are in the middle of a
:36:54. > :36:56.Parliament, but ultimately when it comes to people deciding on who they
:36:57. > :37:00.want to govern the country for the next five years it will look at
:37:01. > :37:03.Labour's economic record which saw us have the greatest recession in
:37:04. > :37:10.our history, or the Conservative record which sees economic recovery.
:37:11. > :37:14.Those in the know say Crawley is too close to call. It's a parliamentary
:37:15. > :37:17.marginal, so no coincidence that in recent months the town has been
:37:18. > :37:23.awash with visiting political heavyweights including Labour leader
:37:24. > :37:26.Ed Miliband and the Prime Minister. But the sheer number of Labour
:37:27. > :37:34.frontbenchers could be indicative of how statistically important Labour
:37:35. > :37:38.feels this seat is for them. The Lib Dems say winning seats is about
:37:39. > :37:42.policies not personalities. Issues like proposals for a second runway
:37:43. > :37:48.at Gatwick airport. Crawley is particularly dependent on
:37:49. > :37:51.the airport. Neither Labour nor the Conservatives in Crawley are really
:37:52. > :37:54.sure what they ought to do about the airport because the proposals to
:37:55. > :37:57.provide another runway at Gatwick airport are splitting the two
:37:58. > :38:06.parties down the middle and I don't think either of them has actually
:38:07. > :38:09.thought about consulting the people. There is still plenty of campaigning
:38:10. > :38:13.to do for all the parties and polling day on May 22 is being seen
:38:14. > :38:18.as the litmus test for the general election next year.
:38:19. > :38:23.Crawley is a key council for Labour. It is the sort of place they have
:38:24. > :38:26.got to make an impact if they are going to have success in the general
:38:27. > :38:29.election next year. There is a possibility they could take the
:38:30. > :38:32.council from the Conservatives. There has been some defections from
:38:33. > :38:35.the Conservative Party to UKIP so that weakens Conservatives. Labour
:38:36. > :38:39.will feel that they can win in Crawley and they need to win if they
:38:40. > :38:44.are to have the prospect of winning the general election next year.
:38:45. > :38:48.The Conservatives are keen to keep hold of the council they have run
:38:49. > :38:59.for seven years and Labour are eager to snatch it away. All eyes will
:39:00. > :39:02.certainly be on Crawley. We heard Henry Smith, the current
:39:03. > :39:08.Conservative Crawley MP, saying that Labour needs a big key to unlock the
:39:09. > :39:13.South East. Have they got a big key? I am not sure we have got a big key,
:39:14. > :39:16.but we have got a message that is resonant in Crawley. We saw in the
:39:17. > :39:19.discussion how the cost of living crisis is affecting families. I have
:39:20. > :39:23.been on the doorstep across the South East and that is a major issue
:39:24. > :39:27.for people living there. I would have guessed that you would
:39:28. > :39:30.say the cost of living. It is all very well using that phrase, but on
:39:31. > :39:34.the economy, asked who they trust, almost 39% said David Cameron, only
:39:35. > :39:38.23% said Ed Miliband. In the sample 54% of respondents say the economy
:39:39. > :39:43.is recovering. Life is getting better.
:39:44. > :39:46.It is not in Crawley. Look at what is happening in the private rented
:39:47. > :39:51.sector. Rents have gone up by 135% since 2010. Childcare costs up by
:39:52. > :39:54.almost a third. People are struggling. I know they are
:39:55. > :39:57.struggling. I have been talking to them. Only Labour has got any kind
:39:58. > :40:00.of solution. The economy may be recovering, but
:40:01. > :40:07.are benefits being felt in areas of deprivation? Let us not just talk
:40:08. > :40:12.about places like Crawley, but Thanet, the Medway towns and
:40:13. > :40:18.Hastings as well. Everywhere in the South East we are
:40:19. > :40:22.feeling the recovery. What Anneliese has just said is quite cheeky ` that
:40:23. > :40:27.rents have gone up in Crawley. Why have rents gone up in Crawley? Did
:40:28. > :40:32.you build any new homes when you were in charge of the council? In
:40:33. > :40:35.Crawley we have had a Conservative controlled council that cannot even
:40:36. > :40:43.agree on its local plan because there is so much division.
:40:44. > :40:47.Let me pick up on areas of deprivation. I was in Margate
:40:48. > :40:52.yesterday making a radio programme. That is a place that is still
:40:53. > :40:55.struggling. For all that it has a fantastic art gallery, if you tell
:40:56. > :41:02.people there that they are living in the wealthy South they would laugh
:41:03. > :41:06.at you. There are pockets of deprivation in
:41:07. > :41:11.the South East. I am very conscious of this. I have visited many parts
:41:12. > :41:14.of my constituency where there are pockets. I have applied to the
:41:15. > :41:23.European Commission for special grants to alleviate that particular
:41:24. > :41:31.pocket that is surrounded by wealth. It is an ongoing thing.
:41:32. > :41:36.I want to come onto what Labour is and isn't getting right. One of your
:41:37. > :41:40.own senior and highly respected MPs in the South says you are simply not
:41:41. > :41:45.on the agenda for most Southern voters. Maybe you are not ambitious
:41:46. > :41:49.enough. You have held as many as eight seats in Kent at a time, but
:41:50. > :41:51.you are only targeting two in the next election.
:41:52. > :41:56.I was speaking to your researcher before. I am not sure where this
:41:57. > :41:59.idea of targeting comes from. I have been campaigning in almost all of
:42:00. > :42:03.the 80 odd constituencies in the South East. Labour's message is
:42:04. > :42:08.achieving resonance there. I do not agree with John. When I am talking
:42:09. > :42:11.to people who are in overcrowded housing, people who are struggling
:42:12. > :42:15.with the cost of living, people whose wages have not kept pace with
:42:16. > :42:18.the cost of living in the South East, they are saying they need to
:42:19. > :42:34.have policies to deal with those kinds of issues.
:42:35. > :42:43.Also cast a party portrays the Tories as toffs.
:42:44. > :42:51.There is concern that for many people there living standards feel
:42:52. > :42:58.like they are going down. Why are you per tree in the Conservative
:42:59. > :43:05.Party as toffs? We are trying to point out who they are favouring.
:43:06. > :43:14.For everybody else, living standards are going down.
:43:15. > :43:26.Henry Smith conceded in the report that the Conservatives could lose
:43:27. > :43:37.Crawley Borough Council. How can Ed Balls go to Crawley and not claim
:43:38. > :43:45.ownership for wrecking our economy? Labour inherited the best economy in
:43:46. > :43:49.unit and wrecked it. Was the economy growing or not when Labour left
:43:50. > :43:55.office? We are going to move on to an issue
:43:56. > :43:59.that we have been talking to the electorate about.
:44:00. > :44:04.Plenty there on what the parties think will win them votes ` but what
:44:05. > :44:07.makes you vote the way you do? Which issues influence where your cross
:44:08. > :44:13.goes on election day? Here's what some of the voters of Crawley told
:44:14. > :44:25.us. Housing and population growth.
:44:26. > :44:29.Social behaviour. Emigration. There are so many coming over here. There
:44:30. > :44:39.are no other countries that are taking them. The cost of living has
:44:40. > :44:50.gone high. Packs for the kids. Some of them are vandalised and
:44:51. > :45:01.destroyed. I do not thought. Now one can run the country. It does not
:45:02. > :45:07.matter who is in, it is all lies. I would not want to stop emigration,
:45:08. > :45:17.but it needs to be more controlled. The same amount of British people
:45:18. > :45:27.also go abroad. It is a Big Issue and I do not want to talk about it.
:45:28. > :45:35.We are the multicultural. I am quite happy with it. It does not bother
:45:36. > :45:53.me. You have heard a number of people
:45:54. > :46:05.talking about immigration. UKIP? Absolutely. Controlling immigration
:46:06. > :46:15.is a port when. In this country we need to control immigration. There's
:46:16. > :46:21.immigration a vote winner for the Labour Party? I would not want to
:46:22. > :46:38.trivialise it. We need to have a rational debate. People use
:46:39. > :46:47.statistics. The three of you represent diverse
:46:48. > :46:56.and modern Britain. Arguably you are a portrayal of immigration. Do we
:46:57. > :47:04.want more? UKIP is not against immigration. We want to control it.
:47:05. > :47:08.We need a fair immigration policy. We are seeing no matter where you
:47:09. > :47:14.come from, if you have the skills, every application should be looked
:47:15. > :47:28.at on merits. You are in favour of control
:47:29. > :47:31.immigration. We are trying to control immigration
:47:32. > :47:40.saw that it is limited to people who have worked. We are against benefits
:47:41. > :47:51.immigration. But the entire country is against that. The OECD has
:47:52. > :47:55.demonstrated that mackerel `` has demonstrated that immigrants bring
:47:56. > :48:04.more into the country than they take out of it.
:48:05. > :48:14.Fewer immigrants claim benefits than British people. I am talking about
:48:15. > :48:21.EU immigration. Why are you shaking your head? The evidence shows that
:48:22. > :48:29.there is not this problem of massive welfare expenditure. There is a big
:48:30. > :48:37.problem in this country. Some people are profiting by PA migrants less
:48:38. > :48:49.than British workers. Some landlords are housing migrants in horrible
:48:50. > :48:55.conditions. It can be due to prove you have standards of the and
:48:56. > :49:01.housing which stops British workers being dragged down. Under this
:49:02. > :49:09.Coalition many of these standards have been removed. The Labour Party
:49:10. > :49:24.increased the population of the country by 2.2 million people. They
:49:25. > :49:32.wanted a full bank. Let us talk about this. You talk
:49:33. > :49:36.about the fact that young British people are losing prospects of
:49:37. > :49:41.employment. There is very little evidence of job displacement when
:49:42. > :49:44.the economy is growing, and the economy is growing. Its make the
:49:45. > :49:46.popular to blame and the economy is growing. It's make the popularity
:49:47. > :49:53.blame immigrants, but it is not necessarily true. You are ignoring
:49:54. > :50:04.the impact. 1 million new jobs created when Labour was in power,
:50:05. > :50:07.but 1 million new immigrants. How can you claim that millions of
:50:08. > :50:21.people can come into the country and not displace the dish workers. ``
:50:22. > :50:29.British workers. In 2008 the House of Lords looked at immigration.
:50:30. > :50:34.We are going to have two leave it there. Thank you.
:50:35. > :50:37.And remember you can see a full list of all the parties and the
:50:38. > :50:43.candidates they are putting up in the European elections on the BBC
:50:44. > :50:47.News website. Talking of election candidates ` BBC
:50:48. > :50:50.Radio in Kent Surrey and Sussex is offering you the chance to question
:50:51. > :50:55.the key politicians who want your vote at this month's European
:50:56. > :50:59.elections. The debate will be recorded in Dover on Friday evening,
:51:00. > :51:05.16th May. I'd love you to join me there. It's free but you need to
:51:06. > :51:07.book by e`mailing your name and number to South East today at
:51:08. > :51:11.bbc.co.uk. And now it's time for some of the
:51:12. > :51:21.other political stories you might have missed this week with James
:51:22. > :51:24.Fitzgerald. The Green Party launched its
:51:25. > :51:32.European election campaign in the Southeast.
:51:33. > :51:36.Dean members of the European Parliament are standing up for a
:51:37. > :51:41.cleaner environment, social justice, more jobs across the EU. We are also
:51:42. > :51:49.seeing that the EU needs to be more accountable. The way to send the
:51:50. > :51:54.message is to vote Green. The ruling conservatives in Surrey
:51:55. > :52:06.County Council are to raise council allowances. Opposition parties said
:52:07. > :52:15.the decision was insensitive. The airport in Kent will close on
:52:16. > :52:25.Thursday. It is very sad. We will not let this be anything except an
:52:26. > :52:30.airport. David Cameron has been on the radio
:52:31. > :52:38.this week seeing the airport should stay open that he cannot do much to
:52:39. > :52:46.intervene. I will fight to get that done. What will Labour do? What is
:52:47. > :52:50.the Government doing? As with so many other facilities yes we would
:52:51. > :52:54.as part of a joint at strategy. Thank you.
:52:55. > :52:58.That's all we've got time for from the South East this week. My thanks
:52:59. > :53:01.to our guests Nirj Deva, Anneliese Dodds and Donna Edmunds. Remember
:53:02. > :53:04.this is the second of our three special programmes on the local and
:53:05. > :53:05.European elections taking place across the South East
:53:06. > :53:18.the website now. Now it is back to you, Andrew.
:53:19. > :53:26.Welcome back, let's go straight to our panel. What did you make of Mr
:53:27. > :53:29.Alexander's defence of the Labour party election broadcast? It is
:53:30. > :53:33.difficult for them because they started by saying they were not
:53:34. > :53:39.going to do negative campaigning and they have thrown that away for an
:53:40. > :53:46.advert which is funny but crude in the class war sense. He didn't look
:53:47. > :53:52.thrilled to be defending it. There is a page in Tony Blair's memoirs
:53:53. > :53:56.talking about negative campaigning, and he says that anything too
:53:57. > :54:08.extreme turns off the average voter so his line of attack on Hague was
:54:09. > :54:13.funny jokes but... I think this failed the Blair test, it was too
:54:14. > :54:19.vicious. If your strategy is to shore up your car vote, that advert
:54:20. > :54:26.was genius. If your strategy is to reach out to a broader number of
:54:27. > :54:29.voters, Middle Britain, then that advert was a complete disaster. It
:54:30. > :54:34.looks like there is a lot of negativity and smears all round in
:54:35. > :54:52.the next year. That definitely looks the way we are going. They will be
:54:53. > :55:04.essentially trying to re-run by -- the American election. I am slightly
:55:05. > :55:09.puzzled why we cannot have our own election gurus who live here and
:55:10. > :55:16.understand the country. I should point out that the ?450 extra VAT
:55:17. > :55:21.that was claimed in that Labour poster, both Ed Balls and the Labour
:55:22. > :55:28.Treasury team have said that is ?450 per year. Nonsense the VAT rise, one
:55:29. > :55:32.year. I should also point out that Nigel Farage said to Norman Smith,
:55:33. > :55:39.the BBC is always reliable Norman Smith that if you run in Newark and
:55:40. > :55:44.lost the bubble would burst. I should also point out that although
:55:45. > :55:48.a number of the tax rises I mentioned on council tax, minimum
:55:49. > :55:54.wage tax and some other things that UKIP wants to cuts, a couple of
:55:55. > :55:59.these are in the local manifesto but several are not. They are on the
:56:00. > :56:07.UKIP website, which is still current and dated 2014. We like to make sure
:56:08. > :56:12.we are absolutely right. Let's talk about Nick Clegg and Michael Gove
:56:13. > :56:20.and the latest spat. Let me show you this headline in the Observer this
:56:21. > :56:32.morning. From both the Independent, he called him a zealot, lunatic is
:56:33. > :56:37.of -- another word. Do we take this seriously? It hinges on this
:56:38. > :56:41.question of what counts as an area of need in education. The Lib Dems
:56:42. > :56:46.say an area of need is one where there are not enough school places
:56:47. > :56:50.to meet local demand. He says it can also be a place where there are
:56:51. > :57:01.surplus places but that is for a reason. Local places don't trust
:57:02. > :57:08.those schools to do a good job for their kids. It surprises me because
:57:09. > :57:11.there isn't a yawning distance between David Laws and Michael Gove.
:57:12. > :57:16.David Laws has found himself between a rock and a hard place because I
:57:17. > :57:20.asked -- as I understand it most Lib Dems don't like the free schools but
:57:21. > :57:28.Mr laws was quite sympathetic to it and he is now having to this respect
:57:29. > :57:32.it. When they asked people who are the most hated politicians in a poll
:57:33. > :57:48.were this week, Michael Gove is off the charts, far above David Cameron
:57:49. > :57:51.or George Osborne. This is tit-for-tat war. The Liberal
:57:52. > :57:55.Democrats believe Michael Gove had a hand in leaking the document that
:57:56. > :57:59.showed Nick Clegg was opposing the tougher Chris Grayling position on
:58:00. > :58:04.knife crime. They are saying there were Cabinet ministers who never
:58:05. > :58:08.usually attend the sub Cabinet meeting, they turned up and the
:58:09. > :58:13.document is leaked so what we are getting is tit for tat on that. It
:58:14. > :58:17.is inevitable but it is not good for either side of the Coalition. Voters
:58:18. > :58:23.will look at it and say it is politics of the playground. I read
:58:24. > :58:34.in the Mail on Sunday this morning that some Tory insiders are accusing
:58:35. > :58:38.Lib Dems of spreading rumours about the camera in marriage. The
:58:39. > :58:52.rebuttals of education story is that the free school meals is sucking
:58:53. > :58:58.money away. I always thought they would work together without fuss and
:58:59. > :59:03.yet it has been more the source of disagreement then I would have
:59:04. > :59:07.expected a couple of years ago. Is it serious? It is serious obviously,
:59:08. > :59:13.using that language, but is it fatal for the Coalition? I think it is a
:59:14. > :59:17.road bump because I don't think anybody wants to dissolve the
:59:18. > :59:22.Coalition. It is a challenge for Labour because where do they stand
:59:23. > :59:25.on the free schools? They invented the Academy programme so it is
:59:26. > :59:29.difficult for them to take a hands-off approach at this stage.
:59:30. > :59:32.There was a danger for Michael Gove that he looks ideological but the
:59:33. > :59:36.danger for the Liberal Democrats is that they are breaking the rules for
:59:37. > :59:39.the Coalition they said that they wouldn't break which is that they
:59:40. > :59:48.looked like opposition in government. Is Michael Gove's
:59:49. > :59:55.position safe? Very safe. If he moves in a reshuffle that will be to
:59:56. > :59:58.a a job. That's all for today. The Daily Politics will be back on BBC
:59:59. > :00:02.Two at lunchtime from Tuesday onwards. I'll be back here on BBC
:00:03. > :00:03.One at 11am next week. Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday
:00:04. > :00:51.Politics. What if the person
:00:52. > :00:53.that killed her... I found out she'd been taking drugs.
:00:54. > :00:57.Just let me explain. You wasn't at that party all night.
:00:58. > :01:00.Yeah, I was. What was she even doing there?
:01:01. > :01:02.Oi, you keep your mouth shut. She was exchanging a significant
:01:03. > :01:05.number of texts and calls with someone in the weeks
:01:06. > :01:08.leading up to her death. It's like we didn't
:01:09. > :01:14.really know her at all. You never know what goes on
:01:15. > :01:18.behind closed doors.