:00:37. > :00:43.Welcome to the Sunday Politics, coming to you live from Edinburgh.
:00:44. > :00:45.Terrorists who use the name Islamic State have carried out
:00:46. > :00:53.their threat to murder the British aid worker, David Haines.
:00:54. > :00:56.They released a video late last night, showing a masked man
:00:57. > :01:02.beheading Mr Haines, who was taken captive in Syria 18 months ago.
:01:03. > :01:04.The jihadist group have already beheaded two American journalists.
:01:05. > :01:07.Now it's threatening the life of a second British hostage.
:01:08. > :01:09.David Cameron described the murder as an act of pure evil.
:01:10. > :01:12.As we speak he's chairing a meeting of the Cabinet's COBRA
:01:13. > :01:16.President Obama said the US stood shoulder to shoulder
:01:17. > :01:23.Alex Salmond says Scotland "stands on the cusp of history" as
:01:24. > :01:25.he predicts a historic and substantial victory in
:01:26. > :01:34.As the latest polls show the two sides neck and neck,
:01:35. > :01:36.I'll ask Yes campaigner and socialist Tommy Sheridan about his
:01:37. > :01:44.And after last week's last-minute interventions from Gordon Brown
:01:45. > :01:46.David Cameron, Ed Miliband and big business, I'll ask
:01:47. > :01:57.In the Southeast: As the prdssures it's enough to win over waverers.
:01:58. > :02:00.In the Southeast: As the prdssures rise from desperate migrants trying
:02:01. > :02:13.step closer back to Parliament. Is it a lame-duck administration?
:02:14. > :02:16.Late last night, as most folk were preparing for bed, news broke that
:02:17. > :02:19.Islamic State extremists had carried out their threat to murder the
:02:20. > :02:23.The group released a video, similar to the ones in which two American
:02:24. > :02:25.journalists were decapitated, showing a masked man apparently
:02:26. > :02:29.beheading Mr Haines who was taken captive in Syria last year.
:02:30. > :02:31.The terrorist, who has a southern British accent,
:02:32. > :02:35.also threatened the life of a second hostage from the UK
:02:36. > :02:37.Mr Haines is the third Westerner to be killed
:02:38. > :02:42.His family have paid tribute to his humanitarian work; they say he
:02:43. > :02:49.David Cameron described the murder as an act of pure evil, and said
:02:50. > :02:52.his heart went out to Mr Haines family, who had shown extraordinary
:02:53. > :03:02.Mr Cameron went on to say, "We will do everything in our power
:03:03. > :03:04.to hunt down these murderers and ensure they face justice,
:03:05. > :03:09.Mr Haines was born in England and brought up in Scotland.
:03:10. > :03:13.Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond condemned the killing on the Marr
:03:14. > :03:27.Well, it's an act of unspeakable barbarism that we have seen.
:03:28. > :03:33.Obviously our condolences go to the family members of David Haynes who
:03:34. > :03:39.have borne this with such fortitude in recent months -- David
:03:40. > :03:42.Alex Salmond was also asked whether he supported military action
:03:43. > :03:54.Haines there is no reason to believe whatsoever that China or Russia or
:03:55. > :03:59.any country will see their will to deal with this barbarism. There is a
:04:00. > :04:02.will for effective, international, legal action but it must come in
:04:03. > :04:08.that fashion, and I would urge that to be a consideration to develop a
:04:09. > :04:10.collective response to what is a threat to humanity.
:04:11. > :04:12.Our security correspondent Gordon Corera joins me now
:04:13. > :04:24.Gordon, as we speak, the Cobra emergency meeting is meeting yet
:04:25. > :04:29.again. It meets a lot these days. I would suggest that the options
:04:30. > :04:34.facing this committee and Mr Cameron are pretty limited. That's right. I
:04:35. > :04:40.think they are extremely limited. They have been all along in these
:04:41. > :04:43.hostage situations. We know, for instance, that British government
:04:44. > :04:47.policy is not to pay ransom is to kidnappers. Other Europeans states
:04:48. > :04:52.are thought to have done so to get hostages released, and also not to
:04:53. > :04:58.make substantive policy concessions to the groups, so while there might
:04:59. > :05:01.be contact, there won't be a lot of options left. We know the US in the
:05:02. > :05:10.past has looked at rescue missions and in July on operation to free the
:05:11. > :05:13.hostages, landing at the oil facility in Syria but finding no one
:05:14. > :05:17.there. If you look at the options, they are not great. That is the
:05:18. > :05:26.difficult situation which Cobra will have been discussing the last hour.
:05:27. > :05:29.Does this make it more likely, because it might have the direction
:05:30. > :05:36.the government was going in any way, that we join with the Americans in
:05:37. > :05:41.perhaps the regional allies in air strikes against Islamic State, not
:05:42. > :05:45.just in Iraq, but also in Syria We heard from President Obama outlining
:05:46. > :05:47.his strategy against Islamic State last week when he talked about
:05:48. > :05:53.building a coalition, about authorising air strikes. And
:05:54. > :05:58.training troops. We are still waiting to hear what exact role the
:05:59. > :06:08.UK will play in that. We know it will play a role because it has been
:06:09. > :06:13.arming the fishmonger forces but the question is, will it actually
:06:14. > :06:18.conduct military strikes in Iraq -- arming the passion are there. We
:06:19. > :06:29.have not got a clear answer from government and that is something
:06:30. > :06:33.where they are ours to discuss what was around the table. It's possible
:06:34. > :06:36.we might learn some more today as a result of the Cobra meeting, but I
:06:37. > :06:41.think the government will be wanting to not be seen to suddenly rushed to
:06:42. > :06:45.a completely different policy as a result of one incident, however
:06:46. > :06:48.terrible it is. Whether it hardens their reserve -- resolved to play
:06:49. > :06:54.more active role in the coalition, that's possible, but we have to wait
:06:55. > :07:01.see to get the detail. -- wait and see. What the whole country would
:07:02. > :07:04.like to see would be British and American special forces going in and
:07:05. > :07:10.getting these guys. I think that would unite the nation. But that is
:07:11. > :07:14.very difficult, isn't it? It is As you saw with a rescue mission a few
:07:15. > :07:17.months ago, the problem is getting actionable intelligence on the
:07:18. > :07:19.ground at a particular moment. The theory is that the group of
:07:20. > :07:24.kidnappers are moving the hostages may be even every or few days, so
:07:25. > :07:28.you need intelligence and quickly and then you need to be able to get
:07:29. > :07:32.the team onto the ground into that time frame. That is clearly a
:07:33. > :07:35.possibility and something they will be looking at, but it certainly
:07:36. > :07:40.challenging, particularly when you have a group like this operating
:07:41. > :07:43.within its own state, effectively, and knowing that other people are
:07:44. > :07:48.looking very hard for it and doing everything they can to hide. Gordon,
:07:49. > :07:50.thank you very much. Clegg dropped everything and headed
:07:51. > :07:55.to Scotland when a poll last Sunday gave the YES vote its first ever
:07:56. > :08:01.lead in this prolonged referendum If their reaction looked
:08:02. > :08:04.like panic, that's because it was. Until last weekend,
:08:05. > :08:06.though the polls had been narrowing, the consensus was still that NO
:08:07. > :08:09.would carry the day. The new consensus is that
:08:10. > :08:23.it's too close to call. If we look back at the beginning of
:08:24. > :08:26.the year, public opinion in Scotland was fairly settled. The no campaign
:08:27. > :08:30.had a commanding lead across the opinion polls, excluding the
:08:31. > :08:36.undecided voters. At one point, at the end of last year, an average of
:08:37. > :08:41.63% backed the no campaign and only 37% supported a yes vote. As we move
:08:42. > :08:47.into 2014 and up to this week, you can see a clear trend emerging as
:08:48. > :08:49.the lead for the no campaign gets narrower and narrower and the
:08:50. > :08:54.average of the most recent polls has the contest hanging in the balance.
:08:55. > :08:59.There was a poll a week ago that put the Yes campaign in the lead for the
:09:00. > :09:03.first time, 51% against 49%, but that lead was not reflected in the
:09:04. > :09:13.other polls last week. For polls were published last night, one by
:09:14. > :09:20.Salvation, for the macro-2 campaign -- Better Together campaign, and
:09:21. > :09:24.there was another that gave a one percentage point different. ICM have
:09:25. > :09:30.the yes campaign back in the lead at 54% and the no campaign at 46%, but
:09:31. > :09:35.their sample size was 705 Scottish adults, smaller than usual. Another
:09:36. > :09:45.suggests that the contest remains on a knife edge with 49.4% against
:09:46. > :09:52.50.6%. When fed into the poll of polls the figures average out with
:09:53. > :09:56.yes at 49% and polls -- no at 5 %. But some people think 18% are
:09:57. > :09:59.undecided, and it is how they vote gets -- when they get to the polling
:10:00. > :10:00.booths that could make all the difference.
:10:01. > :10:05.campaigner and Respect Party MP George Galloway.
:10:06. > :10:12.Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Big business, big oil, big banks, the
:10:13. > :10:17.Tories, the Orange order, all against Scottish independence. You
:10:18. > :10:20.sure you are on right side? Yes because the interests of working
:10:21. > :10:23.people are in staying together. This is a troubled moment in a marriage,
:10:24. > :10:29.a very long marriage, in which some good things and bad things have been
:10:30. > :10:32.achieved together. And there is no doubt that the crockery is being
:10:33. > :10:37.thrown around the house of the minute. But I believe that the
:10:38. > :10:40.underlying interests of working people are on working on the
:10:41. > :10:44.relationship rather than divorce. I have been divorced. It's a very
:10:45. > :10:47.messy, acrimonious, bitter affair and it's particularly bad for the
:10:48. > :10:53.children will stop that's why I am here. You talk about working people,
:10:54. > :10:56.and particularly Scottish working people, they seem to have concluded
:10:57. > :11:00.that the social democracy they want to create cannot now be done in a UK
:11:01. > :11:06.context. Why should they not have a shot of going it alone? Because the
:11:07. > :11:10.opposite will happen. Separation will cause a race to the bottom in
:11:11. > :11:15.taxation. Alex Salmond has already announced he will cut the taxes on
:11:16. > :11:20.companies, corporation tax, down to 3% hello whatever it is in the rest
:11:21. > :11:27.of these islands. And business will only be attracted to come here,
:11:28. > :11:30.country of 5 million people on if there is low regulation, low public
:11:31. > :11:36.expenditure, low levels of taxation for them will stop you cannot have
:11:37. > :11:39.Scandinavian social democracy on Texan levels of taxation. The
:11:40. > :11:44.British government, as will be, the rest of the UK, they will race Alex
:11:45. > :11:52.Salmond to the bottom. If he cuts it by three, they will cut it by four.
:11:53. > :11:55.And so on. So whether some people cannot see it clearly yet or not,
:11:56. > :11:59.the interests of the working people on both sides of the border would be
:12:00. > :12:02.gravely damaged by separation. Let's take the interest of the working
:12:03. > :12:06.people. As you know, as well as anyone, the coalition is in
:12:07. > :12:10.fermenting both a series of cuts and reforms in welfare, and labour,
:12:11. > :12:15.Westminster Labour, has only limited plans to reverse any of that. Surely
:12:16. > :12:22.if you want to preserve the welfare state as it is, independence is the
:12:23. > :12:25.way to do it. For the reasons I just explain, I don't believe that. But
:12:26. > :12:33.Ed Miliband will be along in a minute. He will be along in May The
:12:34. > :12:37.polls indicate... They say he is only four or 5%, that is the
:12:38. > :12:42.average. Like the referendum, the next general election could be nip
:12:43. > :12:46.and tuck. I don't, myself, think that the time of David Cameron as
:12:47. > :12:48.Prime Minister is for much longer. I think there will be a Labour
:12:49. > :12:55.government in the spring and the Labour government in London and a
:12:56. > :12:59.stronger Scottish Parliament, super Devo Max, that is now on the table.
:13:00. > :13:04.That is the best arrangement of people in the country. But the
:13:05. > :13:08.people of Scotland surely cannot base a decision on independence on
:13:09. > :13:13.your feeling that Labour might win the next general election. It is my
:13:14. > :13:17.feeling. When the Tories were beaten on the bedroom tax last week in the
:13:18. > :13:20.house, it was written all over the faces of the government side not
:13:21. > :13:30.only that they were headed for defeat, but probably a massive fishy
:13:31. > :13:35.-- Fisher. I think the race to the bottom that I have proper size will
:13:36. > :13:43.mean that the welfare state will be a distant memory quite soon. The
:13:44. > :13:49.cuts and the run on the Scottish economy here in Edinburgh, the
:13:50. > :13:54.financial services industry, that will be gravely damage. The Ministry
:13:55. > :14:01.of Defence jobs in Scotland decimated, probably ended, more or
:14:02. > :14:05.less. It will be a time of cuts and austerity, maybe super austerity in
:14:06. > :14:08.an independent Scotland. You mentioned defence. What about
:14:09. > :14:12.nuclear weapons? The Tories and Labour will keep them. You are
:14:13. > :14:16.against them. Surely the only way to be rid of them in Scotland is by
:14:17. > :14:22.independence. But you are not rid of them by telling them down the river.
:14:23. > :14:27.The danger would be the same -- telling them down the river. The
:14:28. > :14:31.danger would be the same. Nuclear radiation does not respect Alex
:14:32. > :14:37.Salmond's national boundaries. They would be committed to immediately
:14:38. > :14:40.joining NATO, which is bristling with nuclear weapons and is what --
:14:41. > :14:46.involved in wars across the Atlantic. So anyone looking for a
:14:47. > :14:50.peace option will have to elect a government in Britain as a whole
:14:51. > :14:52.that will get rid of nuclear weapons and get out of military
:14:53. > :14:58.entanglements. We are in one again now. I have been up the whole night,
:14:59. > :15:02.till 5am, dealing with some of the consequences and implications of the
:15:03. > :15:09.grave international matter that you opened the show with. David Haines
:15:10. > :15:14.and the fate of the hostage still in their hands. There are many other
:15:15. > :15:18.hostages as well. And there are many people dying who are neither British
:15:19. > :15:23.nor American. I have, somehow, been drawn into this matter. And it
:15:24. > :15:32.showed me, again, that the world is interdependent. It is absolutely
:15:33. > :15:37.riven with division and hatred, and this is the worst possible time to
:15:38. > :15:44.be opting out of the world to set up a small mini-state on the promises
:15:45. > :15:48.of Alex Salmond of social democracy funded by Texan taxes. Let's, for
:15:49. > :15:53.the sake of the next question, assume that everything you have told
:15:54. > :16:04.us is true. Why is your side squandering a 20 point lead?
:16:05. > :16:12.I will have a great deal to say about that, whatever the result
:16:13. > :16:19.This is very much a Scottish Labour project, is that not a condemnation
:16:20. > :16:27.of Scottish Labour? It is potentially on its deathbed. The
:16:28. > :16:42.country breaking up, the principal responsibility will be on them. And
:16:43. > :16:48.the pitiful, absolutely pitiful job that has been made of defending a
:16:49. > :16:53.300-year-old relationship in this island by the Scottish Labour
:16:54. > :16:59.leadership is really terrible for me to behold, even though I'm no longer
:17:00. > :17:04.one of them. I don't know how they are going to get out of this
:17:05. > :17:10.deathbed. Do you agree that if this referendum is lost by your side it
:17:11. > :17:13.will be because traditional working-class Labour voters,
:17:14. > :17:17.particularly in the west of Scotland, have abundant Labour and
:17:18. > :17:23.decided to vote for independence? Without a doubt, the number of
:17:24. > :17:29.Labour voters intending to vote yes is disturbingly high. Even just
:17:30. > :17:33.months ago during the European Parliament elections, swathes of
:17:34. > :17:39.people who didn't vote SNP will be voting yes on Thursday. That is a
:17:40. > :17:45.grave squandering of a great legacy of Scottish Labour history, which
:17:46. > :17:50.history will decree as unforgivable. If Labour is to get
:17:51. > :17:57.out of its deathbed in Scotland it will have to become Labour again.
:17:58. > :18:05.Real Labour again. I am ready to help them with that. My goodness,
:18:06. > :18:11.they need help with it. I wonder if it isn't just a failure of Labour in
:18:12. > :18:15.Scotland. People all over Britain are increasingly fed up with the
:18:16. > :18:20.Westminster system, but it is only the Scots who currently have the
:18:21. > :18:25.chance to break free from it, so why shouldn't they? That is exactly
:18:26. > :18:32.right. They see a parliament of expenses cheats led by Lord snooty
:18:33. > :18:36.and the Bullingdon club elite, carrying through austerity for many
:18:37. > :18:41.but not for themselves and they are repulsed by it. They need change,
:18:42. > :18:47.but you can go backwards and call it change but it will be worse than the
:18:48. > :18:53.situation you have now. A lot of Scottish people don't buy that. It
:18:54. > :18:59.is a big gamble. If I were poised to put my family's life savings on the
:19:00. > :19:03.roulette table in Las Vegas, my wife would not be scaremongering if she
:19:04. > :19:08.pointed out the potential consequences if I'd lost. She would
:19:09. > :19:12.not be negative by telling me that is my children's money I am risking.
:19:13. > :19:16.If I jumped off this roof it would change my point of view, but it
:19:17. > :19:20.would be worse than the point of view I have now. There is another
:19:21. > :19:26.issue here because the Scots are being asked to gamble on the
:19:27. > :19:32.Westminster parties, which they are already suspicious of, of delivering
:19:33. > :19:38.home rule. Alistair Darling could not even tell me if Ed Balls had
:19:39. > :19:43.signed off on more income tax powers for Scotland, so that is a gamble
:19:44. > :19:48.for the Scots. I feel the British state has had such a shake out of
:19:49. > :19:55.all this that they would be beyond idiots, they would be insane now to
:19:56. > :19:59.risk all of this flaring up again because whatever happens, if we win
:20:00. > :20:05.on Thursday, it is going to be narrowly. It will be a severe
:20:06. > :20:11.fissure in Scotland. A great deal of unpleasantness that we are already
:20:12. > :20:17.aware of. That could turn but we're still. It would be dicing with
:20:18. > :20:23.death, playing with fire, to let Scottish people down after Thursday
:20:24. > :20:29.if we narrowly win. If you narrowly win, and if there are moves to this
:20:30. > :20:33.home rule Mr Brown has been talking about, England hasn't spoken yet on
:20:34. > :20:40.this. Whilst England would probably not want to stop -- stop Scotland
:20:41. > :20:49.getting this, they would say, what about us? It could delay the whole
:20:50. > :20:54.procedure. It is necessary, you are right. England should have home
:20:55. > :21:00.rule, and I screamed at Scottish Labour MPs going into the vote to
:21:01. > :21:04.introduce tuition fees in England. I told them this was a constitutional
:21:05. > :21:11.monstrosity, as well as a crime against young people in England It
:21:12. > :21:17.was risking everything. We are led by idiots. Our leaders are not James
:21:18. > :21:23.Bonds, they are Austin powers. We need to change the leadership, not
:21:24. > :21:29.rip up a 300-year-old marriage. Thank you.
:21:30. > :21:31.It's been one of the longest and hardest fought political campaigns
:21:32. > :21:35.in history, with Alex Salmond firing the starting gun on the referendum
:21:36. > :21:46.Adam's been stitching together the key moments of the campaign
:21:47. > :21:52.It is the other thing drawing people to the Scottish parliament, the new
:21:53. > :21:59.great tapestry of Scotland. It is the story of battles won and lost,
:22:00. > :22:03.Scottish moments, British moments, famous Scots, and not so famous
:22:04. > :22:10.Scots. There is even a panel dedicated to the rise of the SNP.
:22:11. > :22:14.Alex Salmond's majority in the elections in 2011 made the
:22:15. > :22:19.referendum inevitable. It became reality when he and David Cameron
:22:20. > :22:24.did a deal in Edinburgh one year later. The Scottish Government set
:22:25. > :22:30.out its plans for independence in this book, just a wish list to some,
:22:31. > :22:36.a sacred text to others. This White Paper is the most detailed
:22:37. > :22:41.improvements that any people have ever been offered in the world as a
:22:42. > :22:47.basis for becoming an independent country. The no campaign, called
:22:48. > :22:52.Better Together, united the Tories, Labour and the Lib Dems under the
:22:53. > :22:56.leadership of Alistair Darling. Then the Scottish people were bombarded
:22:57. > :23:00.with two years of photo opportunities and a lot of
:23:01. > :23:05.campaigning. For the no campaign, Jim Murphy went on tour but took a
:23:06. > :23:10.break when he was egged and his events were often hijacked by yes
:23:11. > :23:16.campaigners who were accused of being intimidating. In turn, they
:23:17. > :23:24.accused the no campaign of using scare tactics. Things heated up when
:23:25. > :23:29.the TV dinner -- during the TV debate. Fever pitch was reached one
:23:30. > :23:34.week ago when one poll suggested the yes campaign was in the lead for the
:23:35. > :23:39.first time. The three main Westminster leaders ditched PMQs to
:23:40. > :23:43.head north. I think people can feel it is like a general election, that
:23:44. > :23:47.you make a decision and five years later you can make another decision
:23:48. > :23:56.if you are fed up with the Tories, give them a kick... This is totally
:23:57. > :24:00.different. And Labour shelved not quite 100 MPs onto the train, Alex
:24:01. > :24:05.Salmond took a helicopter instead. This is about the formation of the
:24:06. > :24:15.NHS. A big theme of the yes campaign is that changes to the NHS in Linden
:24:16. > :24:21.-- in England would lead to privatisation in Scotland. Alex
:24:22. > :24:28.Salmond's plan to share the pound was trashed by big names. There were
:24:29. > :24:32.other big question is, what would happen to military hardware like
:24:33. > :24:38.Trident based on the Clyde? Would an independent Scotland be able to join
:24:39. > :24:42.the EU? And how much oil was left underneath the North Sea?
:24:43. > :24:50.This panel is about famous Scots, we have Annie Lennox, Stephen Hendry,
:24:51. > :24:54.Sean Connery. I cannot see Gordon Brown. These are big changes we are
:24:55. > :25:00.proposing to strengthen the Scottish parliament, but at the same time to
:25:01. > :25:03.stay as part of the UK. A regular on the campaign, he was front and
:25:04. > :25:07.centre when things got close, unveiling a timetable for more
:25:08. > :25:12.devolution. People wondered whether Ed Miliband was able to reach the
:25:13. > :25:16.parts of Scotland Labour leader should reach, and at Westminster
:25:17. > :25:21.some Tories pondered whether David Cameron could stay as prime minister
:25:22. > :25:26.if there was a yes vote. This tapestry is nonpartisan so it is a
:25:27. > :25:32.good place to get away from it all but it is crystallising voters'
:25:33. > :25:41.views. Look at what we have contributed to Great Britain, and I
:25:42. > :25:44.am British and I hope to be staying British. This is what people from
:25:45. > :25:47.Scotland have done, taken to the rest of the world in many cases and
:25:48. > :25:52.I think I am going to vote yes. I am so inspired by it. It has certainly
:25:53. > :25:57.inspired me to have a go at stitching. How long do you think it
:25:58. > :26:02.would take to do the whole thing? I would say to put aside maybe 30
:26:03. > :26:06.hours of stitching. Maybe by the time I am done, we will know more
:26:07. > :26:10.about how the fabric of the nation might be changing.
:26:11. > :26:13.And I've been joined by yes campaigner and convenor
:26:14. > :26:15.of Scotland's Solidarity socialist party, Tommy Sheridan.
:26:16. > :26:27.An economy dependent on oil, the Queen as head of state, membership
:26:28. > :26:32.of the world 's premier nuclear alliance of capitalist nations is
:26:33. > :26:42.that the socialist Scotland you are fighting for? No, that is the SNP's
:26:43. > :26:47.prospectus and they are entitled to put forward their vision, but it is
:26:48. > :26:53.not mine or that of the majority of Scotland. We will find out in two
:26:54. > :26:58.years. On Thursday we are not voting for a political party, we are voting
:26:59. > :27:03.for our freedom as a country. That is why people are going to vote yes
:27:04. > :27:08.on Thursday. A lot of people are voting for what you call freedom
:27:09. > :27:13.because they think it will be more Scotland. You have already got free
:27:14. > :27:18.prescriptions, no tuition fees, free care for the elderly. You might not
:27:19. > :27:23.in future have that if public spending is overdependent on the
:27:24. > :27:27.price of oil, over which you have no control. We don't have to worry
:27:28. > :27:34.about one single resource, we already have 20% of the fishing
:27:35. > :27:44.stock in Europe. We already have 25% of the wind, wave and solar power
:27:45. > :27:49.generation. We, as an independent country, have huge resources,
:27:50. > :27:54.natural resources but also people resources. We have five first-class
:27:55. > :27:58.universities, food and beverages industry which is the envy of the
:27:59. > :28:02.world. We have the ability to produce the resources on the
:28:03. > :28:06.revenues that won't just maintain the health service and education but
:28:07. > :28:10.it will develop health and education. I don't want to stand
:28:11. > :28:14.still, I want to redistribute wealth. But all of the projections
:28:15. > :28:21.of public spending for an independent Scotland show that to
:28:22. > :28:26.keep spending at the current level you need a strong price of oil and
:28:27. > :28:33.you are dependent on this commodity which goes up and down and sideways.
:28:34. > :28:37.That is a gamble. I have got to laugh because I have been told the
:28:38. > :28:45.most pessimistic is that in 40 years the oil is running out, panic
:28:46. > :28:48.stations! If you were told by the BBC you could only guarantee
:28:49. > :28:54.employment for the next 40 years you would be over the moon. I am talking
:28:55. > :29:00.about in the next five. You need 50% of your revenues to come from oil to
:29:01. > :29:04.continue spending and that is not a guarantee. Of course it is, the
:29:05. > :29:15.minimum survival of the oil is 0 years. Please get your viewers to go
:29:16. > :29:27.onto the Internet and look at the website called oilandgas.com. The
:29:28. > :29:32.West Coast has 100 years of oil to be extracted. It hasn't been done
:29:33. > :29:38.because in 1981 Michael Heseltine said we cannot extract the oil
:29:39. > :29:47.because we have Trident going up and down there. Let's get rid of Trident
:29:48. > :29:53.and extract the oil. You are a trot right, why have you failed to learn
:29:54. > :29:58.his famous dictum, socialism in one country is impossible. Revolutions
:29:59. > :30:02.and change are not just single event. What will happen here on
:30:03. > :30:08.Thursday is a democratic revolution. The people are fed up of being
:30:09. > :30:13.patronised and lied to by this mob in Westminster who have used and
:30:14. > :30:18.abused us for far too long. The smaller people now have a voice
:30:19. > :30:27.What about socialism in one country? Mr Trotsky warned you
:30:28. > :30:31.against that. The no campaign represents the past. The yes
:30:32. > :30:36.campaign represents the future. That is the truth of the matter. What we
:30:37. > :30:44.are going to do in an independent Scotland is tackle inequality and a
:30:45. > :30:49.scourge of low pay. If we vote no on Thursday, there will be more low pay
:30:50. > :30:53.on Friday, more poverty and food banks on Friday. I'm not going to be
:30:54. > :31:02.lectured by these big banks, you vote less -- yes and we will leave
:31:03. > :31:09.the country! The food banks will be the ones closing. If you got your
:31:10. > :31:13.way, for the type of Scotland you would like to see, state control of
:31:14. > :31:17.business, nationalisation of the Manx, the roads to Carlisle will be
:31:18. > :31:27.clogged with people Yes, hoping to come into Scotland,
:31:28. > :31:34.because in their hearts, the Scottish people know that England
:31:35. > :31:38.want to see the people having the bottle. The working class people in
:31:39. > :31:42.Liverpool, Newcastle, outside of London, they are saying good on the
:31:43. > :31:46.jocks that are taking on big business. When we are independent
:31:47. > :31:50.and investing in social housing the people of England will say, we can
:31:51. > :31:55.do that as well, and they will rediscover the radical tradition. In
:31:56. > :31:58.wanting to build socialism in one country, it really means you are
:31:59. > :32:02.fighting for the few, rather than the many. You are bailing out of the
:32:03. > :32:10.socialist Battle for Britain. You think it will be easier to make it
:32:11. > :32:14.work. Think globally, act locally and we will build socialism in
:32:15. > :32:17.Scotland but I wanted across the world. I won my brothers and sisters
:32:18. > :32:22.in England and Wales to be encouraged by what we do so they can
:32:23. > :32:26.reject the Westminster consensus as well -- I want. We had the three
:32:27. > :32:30.Stooges coming up to London, three millionaires united on one thing,
:32:31. > :32:34.austerity. Doesn't matter whether Ed Miliband wins the next election he
:32:35. > :32:39.said he would stick to the story spending cuts. Why vote for Ed
:32:40. > :32:43.Miliband? You wouldn't trust him to run a bath, not a country. Let's see
:32:44. > :32:48.if this is realistic, this great socialist vision. At the last
:32:49. > :32:50.Scottish election, the Socialist party got 8000 votes. The
:32:51. > :32:57.Conservatives got 30 times more votes. Where is the appetite in
:32:58. > :33:01.Scotland for your Marxist ideology question we might not win it. But do
:33:02. > :33:17.you know what, see in two years time. See when we have the Scottish
:33:18. > :33:19.general election. You won't -- you are saying you might win and you
:33:20. > :33:26.went to the Holyrood election and got 8000 Pope -- votes. The SNP won
:33:27. > :33:30.a democratic election and then won the 2011 election and you know why
:33:31. > :33:34.they won? Because they picked up the clothes that the Labour Party has
:33:35. > :33:39.thrown away. They picked up the close of social democracy and
:33:40. > :33:44.protecting the health service was -- service. There are people in the SNP
:33:45. > :33:49.who believe in public ownership and people in the SNP who believe in the
:33:50. > :33:53.NHS should be written into a constitution as never for sale
:33:54. > :33:57.people in the the SNP that think the Royal mail should return to public
:33:58. > :34:00.ownership. That is there in black and white. Do you agree with George
:34:01. > :34:06.Galloway that this is potentially a crisis for Scottish Labour? Scottish
:34:07. > :34:09.Labour is finished. They are absolutely finished. George is right
:34:10. > :34:14.in that. Scottish Labour is finished. The irony of ironies is,
:34:15. > :34:16.Labour in Scotland has more chance of recovery in an independent
:34:17. > :34:22.Scotland that they have in a no vote. Labour in Scotland in an
:34:23. > :34:28.independent country will have to rediscover the traditions of Keir
:34:29. > :34:33.Hardie, the ideas of Jimmy Maxon, because right now, they are to the
:34:34. > :34:38.right of the SNP as a political party. I understand the socialist
:34:39. > :34:45.vision, but it is where the appetite is. And you look at the independence
:34:46. > :34:51.people in Scotland. One of your colleagues, Brian Souter, a man who
:34:52. > :34:54.fought against the appeal -- repeal of homosexual rights in Scotland.
:34:55. > :35:01.Another of your allies would seem to be Rupert Murdoch, the man who
:35:02. > :35:04.engineered your downfall. You say he engineered your downfall, but I m
:35:05. > :35:11.still here and his newspaper has closed. Whether it Rupert Murdoch,
:35:12. > :35:14.Brian Souter, or any other millionaire supporting independence,
:35:15. > :35:18.I couldn't care less. This boat on Thursday is not about millionaires,
:35:19. > :35:24.it is about the millions. -- this vote. We will not be abused any
:35:25. > :35:29.young -- longer. Would you rather not have their support? I couldn't
:35:30. > :35:34.care about the support. You know who is supporting the union. It is the
:35:35. > :35:41.unions of the big businesses, the BNP, UKIP, they are the ones who
:35:42. > :35:44.support it. You are giving me a stray that has wandered into the
:35:45. > :35:49.campaign and are you seriously going to argue with me that the
:35:50. > :35:53.establishment isn't united to try and save the union? That is what
:35:54. > :35:57.they are trying to be. The BBC, you have been a disgrace in your
:35:58. > :36:02.coverage of the campaign. Not you personally. You don't have editorial
:36:03. > :36:07.control. The BBC coverage, generally, has been a disgrace and
:36:08. > :36:10.the people. Oil and gas, go and look at that, why is that not feature.
:36:11. > :36:14.Why is the idea of 100 years of oil not featured in the campaign.
:36:15. > :36:19.Because the BBC does not want to see it. Are you getting in your excuses
:36:20. > :36:24.if you lose? You better be kidding. Is this the face of somebody looking
:36:25. > :36:32.to lose. We are going to win, 6 /40. Absolutely. There is a momentum that
:36:33. > :36:35.you guys are not seeing on the working-class housing estates.
:36:36. > :36:40.Working class people are fed up being taken for granted fed up with
:36:41. > :36:47.the lives of people dragging us into tax cuts, bedroom tax for the poor.
:36:48. > :36:51.They will have power on Thursday, and they will use it and vote for
:36:52. > :36:56.freedom. Are you happy with the way the BBC has treated you today? So
:36:57. > :37:00.far, yes. I have still not been offered a Coffey, but that might
:37:01. > :37:03.happen. That is an obvious example of our bias. Tommy, we will speak to
:37:04. > :37:31.you later with George Galloway. This is the Sunday politics in the
:37:32. > :37:45.south`east. It has been a htgely stressful week for thousands of 10
:37:46. > :37:51.euros juicer 11 plus exam `` ten`year`old.
:37:52. > :37:55.I am joined by the Conservative MP for Folkestone and hide and a Labour
:37:56. > :38:01.candidate for Folkestone and the general election.
:38:02. > :38:09.It has been a summer when one of the worst kept political secrets was
:38:10. > :38:17.confirmed, Nigel Farage will stand for the general election. Hdre he is
:38:18. > :38:21.at his hustings in Ramsgate. Somebody once said I am Davhd
:38:22. > :38:29.Cameron's worst nightmare. That is not good enough. I want to be Ed
:38:30. > :38:35.Miliband's worst Maes Manor also `` worst nightmare. Will you join me in
:38:36. > :38:40.the army that will come to success next year? Thank you!
:38:41. > :38:46.A rather more surprising announcement was the defecthon of
:38:47. > :38:55.the Conservative MP for Clacton Douglas Carswell. You heard Nigel
:38:56. > :38:59.Farage: For an army of supporters. I was there, they went mad for him. He
:39:00. > :39:03.knows how to use the language of the people. Is there anything ndw or
:39:04. > :39:09.could ever up your sleeve to tackle the threat?
:39:10. > :39:13.We don't need anything new or clever, just to be true to our
:39:14. > :39:18.values and vision and to continue talking to people. We do th`t every
:39:19. > :39:21.day. I have a great privilege listening to what the residdnts want
:39:22. > :39:28.and it is very much in tune with what we are offering. We nedd to
:39:29. > :39:31.take every rival with some seriousness will stop he is a rival
:39:32. > :39:38.and it is not exactly a surprise as you said. But we have not sden a
:39:39. > :39:43.massive show of support for UKIP on the doorsteps so far.
:39:44. > :39:50.Along the coast they are a serious threat. The official opposition on
:39:51. > :39:55.Kent County Council. They h`ve these highly credible candidates. Do you
:39:56. > :40:03.have anything new or clever up your sleeve? Do you need to up your game?
:40:04. > :40:11.His selection has been a bit like a pantomime. It all seemed to be about
:40:12. > :40:18.Nigel Farage. Voters will now think, what does your party offer? Do I
:40:19. > :40:25.want UKIP representing me? Hs it all about creating a platform for them?
:40:26. > :40:29.I went to Clacton on the dax of the defection and spoke to elderly,
:40:30. > :40:33.traditional conservative voters They said, we will have two vote
:40:34. > :40:39.UKIP now. They don't have too. I will visit
:40:40. > :40:49.during the course of the calpaign. Lots of people think it will be
:40:50. > :40:53.between the Conservatives and UKIP and they would rather see the
:40:54. > :41:00.Conservatives win it. This hs largely about people who fedl left
:41:01. > :41:06.behind and angry. We need to prove that our policies improve the lives
:41:07. > :41:12.and create jobs. You both must agree will be an
:41:13. > :41:21.exciting general election. Perhaps we have UKIP to thank because people
:41:22. > :41:26.are engaged with politics again Too many people on the doorsteps so
:41:27. > :41:31.they are not interested. It was one of our challenges.
:41:32. > :41:37.A touchstone issue for UKIP is immigration. It has dominatdd our
:41:38. > :41:46.screens because of the incrdase of people arriving at the port of
:41:47. > :41:52.Calais using increasingly ddsperate measures to reach Britain. Ligrants
:41:53. > :41:56.attempting to illegally reach the UK have climbed fences and tridd to
:41:57. > :42:01.storm ferries en masse. One woman found a man tucked in the b`ck of
:42:02. > :42:05.her car, he climbed in when she left it at the port.
:42:06. > :42:14.In that little compound you think you are safe. It is not the case.
:42:15. > :42:17.What is the solution? The European Union must takd
:42:18. > :42:26.responsibility to process asylum claims. We are seeing too m`ny
:42:27. > :42:34.countries were waving them on to Calais.
:42:35. > :42:43.Town hall chiefs in Calais want the process moved to Dover.
:42:44. > :42:46.You can stop hundreds of migrants in one go. They have nothing to lose
:42:47. > :42:54.any more. What is the attraction of Britain?
:42:55. > :42:57.Many feel that they will have more opportunity of work because of
:42:58. > :43:04.family connections. They think that here, life hs good.
:43:05. > :43:10.Maybe it is a myth but it is a myth that into yours. This is not just
:43:11. > :43:18.about security but about a humanitarian crisis also. Tdnsions
:43:19. > :43:21.are running high with the town seen protests from refugees themselves
:43:22. > :43:27.and anti immigrant groups. Is it our problem? A British
:43:28. > :43:33.problem? It would be if we don't defdnd our
:43:34. > :43:39.borders. That is our first obligation and why we have `nother
:43:40. > :43:42.400 people working in the port of force. These people have tr`velled
:43:43. > :43:48.all the way through Italy and France, the authorities havd not
:43:49. > :43:58.dealt with them at any point in that journey, they wait for them to get
:43:59. > :44:02.to Calais and the crisis. The. We must be absolutely clear, otr first
:44:03. > :44:07.obligation is to protect our borders. We have the right to check
:44:08. > :44:12.papers and passports as thex come in. People without the right papers
:44:13. > :44:19.don't have the right to comd into the country. There is an assumption
:44:20. > :44:25.that people want to come because of our benefits. However you w`nt to
:44:26. > :44:29.portray it. Is this not just more about people wanting to comd to be
:44:30. > :44:36.contrary where they speak the language? Various things ard
:44:37. > :44:50.important. One, they are not all asylum seekers. Does that mdan none
:44:51. > :44:54.of them are? No, that is wh`t I was going to want to say. Some lay be
:44:55. > :45:02.economic migrants, others for other reasons. And the rate of benefits
:45:03. > :45:08.here is lower than in Francd. So the claims of a benefits attraction is
:45:09. > :45:15.fallacious, it does not hold water. Do they perceive it? A lot of them
:45:16. > :45:20.are trafficked and Arsenal story of what awaits them in Britain. They do
:45:21. > :45:26.not often find that and we lust think of them as exploitive as well.
:45:27. > :45:31.Not everybody is getting ovdr here, a lot of the struggle is in France,
:45:32. > :45:37.these people are disillusioned and desperate, running like crazy to get
:45:38. > :45:41.onto a boat. They are desperately exploited and in terrible
:45:42. > :45:45.conditions. We have to think of what rings them there, not just how to
:45:46. > :45:49.keep them out. At the very least should be sent
:45:50. > :45:54.officials out there? We do, to engage and explain why
:45:55. > :45:59.they cannot come into the country. We talked to the French authorities
:46:00. > :46:06.also and want them to do more. They have allowed the situation to build.
:46:07. > :46:10.It is not good enough for them to say to us, you not take these people
:46:11. > :46:17.off our hands. That is unre`sonable. And despite the concerns, this
:46:18. > :46:20.demonstrates we are increashngly effective at policing our own
:46:21. > :46:35.borders. And a guy got on the back of a car?
:46:36. > :46:37.And we have had people hiding the reels of aeroplanes, falling out as
:46:38. > :46:48.they come over. Do they need to create a new camp?
:46:49. > :46:52.Do we need to think about... We have some humanity. We c`nnot
:46:53. > :46:57.leave people on the streets. That is not an option. The question is how
:46:58. > :47:03.do you create opportunities for people to live the lives thdy want.
:47:04. > :47:08.If these people did not want to leave and did not feel so ddsperate,
:47:09. > :47:12.there would not be this crisis. I am sure you feel you have done
:47:13. > :47:16.this already but we are going to engage our brains in a moment.
:47:17. > :47:28.First, the breakfast progralme will, live from Calais tomorrow. Now, the
:47:29. > :47:32.grey matter. If you were at school before the 70s you probably had to
:47:33. > :47:43.answer mathematical questions in your 11 plus. This week, 14,000
:47:44. > :47:54.students set a new exam, supposedly a better taste of innate abhlity.
:47:55. > :48:02.I felt quite dizzy. Quite ill. The nerves were getting to me, H think.
:48:03. > :48:10.Your time start now. I felt like it was just me hn the
:48:11. > :48:20.room. I was anxious and scared. My heart was beating really quhckly.
:48:21. > :48:45.Wednesday was a stressful d`y for image and columns. She said the new,
:48:46. > :48:49.so`called tutor proof 11th plus Despite that, many parents still
:48:50. > :48:55.play for tutoring. It is unfair to put them in without
:48:56. > :49:00.any level of coaching. She needed support and guidance to enable her
:49:01. > :49:07.to make the best of it passhng. Because I had tutoring, I think I
:49:08. > :49:12.felt more confident. It's hdlped me do the test.
:49:13. > :49:17.Competition for a place at ` grammar school is fierce. Many are
:49:18. > :49:24.oversubscribed, particularlx in West Kent. It puts more pressure on
:49:25. > :49:30.parents and pupils. But can any exam really be tutor proof?
:49:31. > :49:37.I don't think the new test hs any less coachable than the previous
:49:38. > :49:44.one. Except for the on cert`inty. `` uncertainty. The consequencd is that
:49:45. > :49:50.the amount of coaching has, perversely, gone up. The attempts to
:49:51. > :49:58.produce a less coachable test, I have seen that it has produced an
:49:59. > :50:03.increase in the demand for coaching. First introduced in 1944, the test
:50:04. > :50:09.promised better social mobility through education. Today, Kdnt has
:50:10. > :50:18.more grammar schools than anywhere else in the country and the system
:50:19. > :50:23.is more popular than ever. 03,7 0 children took the test, vying for
:50:24. > :50:30.fewer than 4800 places. 25% will succeed. Despite the new stxle test
:50:31. > :50:36.that is mounting pressure on the system with so`called test tourism,
:50:37. > :50:40.children from neighbouring counties spilling into Kent grammar schools.
:50:41. > :50:47.And an increasing number of schools opting for their own entry dxams.
:50:48. > :50:54.Can it survive? I suspect wd will see greater fragmentation. Ht has
:50:55. > :50:59.already started. There is a feeling in certain quarters that cotntywide
:51:00. > :51:03.test, be that in Kent, Lincolnshire, wherever therd is a
:51:04. > :51:10.proliferation of grammar schools, are probably not the way forward.
:51:11. > :51:16.Back at home and for imaging, the long wait for results. But for
:51:17. > :51:22.children like her, sitting the test in the future, will it really be
:51:23. > :51:30.fairer and less stressful? Earlier I spoke to the man hn charge
:51:31. > :51:35.of education in Kent. A fair test, but fair on whom?
:51:36. > :51:43.In the sense of, if we achidve what we want to, a better test. H saw
:51:44. > :51:49.your clip and the references to being tutor proof. We never use that
:51:50. > :51:55.term. We want proper assesslent of whether a child taking the test is
:51:56. > :51:59.suitable for grammar educathon. So you want the very brightest
:52:00. > :52:03.children. You would agree whth critics of the previous test that
:52:04. > :52:06.there were children got a place who were not really grammar school
:52:07. > :52:11.material? Our concern was that the test had
:52:12. > :52:21.gotten stale and predictabld. We are trying to introduce some eldment of
:52:22. > :52:24.this predictable, but we have also changed and brought closer to the
:52:25. > :52:29.school curriculum. You have an English element, mathematics, and we
:52:30. > :52:34.seek that overall, now in the years to come, there is constant
:52:35. > :52:44.refreshing of the question bank So that it is more a test of all
:52:45. > :52:50.ability. I don't see much about making it
:52:51. > :53:03.feared for children from disadvantaged families. `` fairer.
:53:04. > :53:08.The schools minister has cold and grammar schools to do more `bout it.
:53:09. > :53:15.But this is not designed for that. We think it should be a consequence.
:53:16. > :53:19.If it is to be a better test of raw ability ultimately you can pick out
:53:20. > :53:22.the truth from whatever background, that would include increasing
:53:23. > :53:29.representation of children on free school meals. Already, lookhng at
:53:30. > :53:32.the last three years, there has been a doubling of children from free
:53:33. > :53:36.school meals backgrounds taking the test.
:53:37. > :53:41.Surely this is the wrong molent to change it then, particularlx looking
:53:42. > :53:45.at the Bucks model, campaigners released figures suggesting a
:53:46. > :53:49.similarly revamped model was altered in more children from private school
:53:50. > :53:54.getting a place and fewer from state schools. If that happens here you
:53:55. > :54:01.can possibly argue this is lore fair, it might have been better to
:54:02. > :54:04.wait and make changes natur`lly It is still far from a satisfactory
:54:05. > :54:07.level. But are you worried about what is
:54:08. > :54:12.happening in Bucks? We want to move in the direction of
:54:13. > :54:18.a level playing you. If you have that, a coral reef should bd that
:54:19. > :54:36.grammar schools deliver gre`ter academic education. `` coral lary.
:54:37. > :54:41.Do you want the schools to `ctually let your test bed in first? It could
:54:42. > :54:44.not be good for students to sit multiple tests.
:54:45. > :54:54.It puts extra pressure on students and families. We hope that this
:54:55. > :55:03.test, so far taken across the county, at the moment, as mtch as
:55:04. > :55:07.possible we want to hold onto existing test in the interest of
:55:08. > :55:16.children and families, to mhnimise pressure on them.
:55:17. > :55:21.Is the best way to minimise stress mode selection at all? Do wd really
:55:22. > :55:25.need to put 40,000 children through this every year?
:55:26. > :55:30.Look at the results this sulmer We did that of the national avdrage.
:55:31. > :55:35.What we have in Kent works. That does not answer whether this is
:55:36. > :55:38.good for children. Surely that should be the measure with dvery
:55:39. > :55:44.education policy? But different schools cater for
:55:45. > :55:47.children with different needs. Some thrive academically, others need a
:55:48. > :55:53.broader curriculum than the academy schools. Some are doing really well
:55:54. > :55:59.at getting excellent academhc results, sending pupils onto the top
:56:00. > :56:06.universities, as well as providing vocational skills also. Pardnts and
:56:07. > :56:10.children have a choice. Overall the test is our standard is going up
:56:11. > :56:17.across the board? And they `re. Parents are the problem, ard they?
:56:18. > :56:24.Parents who force children hnto hours of extra coaching, endless
:56:25. > :56:29.practice. This is try to stop them being an incentive for that.
:56:30. > :56:40.And I understand why. But e`rlier we saw a record amount of tutor...
:56:41. > :56:49.That was an anecdote. But the unknown makes parents put more
:56:50. > :56:54.pressure on their children. You went to a grammar school.
:56:55. > :57:01.And they would not recommend it and do not wanted for my childrdn. I was
:57:02. > :57:05.expelled... Does that speak volumes for you or
:57:06. > :57:12.the school? We can get into that another time!
:57:13. > :57:20.Does labour disapprove of grammar schools then? Would Labour get rid
:57:21. > :57:27.of the existing grammar schools I don't know the answer to that
:57:28. > :57:33.But you are critical. I would argue for comprehensive schools. Children
:57:34. > :57:38.who eat and play together, learn together, build a society that is at
:57:39. > :57:43.ease with each other, in a way that segregation at 11 does not.
:57:44. > :57:48.Disadvantaged children are not the object of her. Grammar schools these
:57:49. > :57:52.days are stuffed full of middle`class children according to
:57:53. > :57:56.the schools minister. We usdd to be the agents of social change. Where
:57:57. > :58:01.poor children went for a grdat education. Don't we really need to
:58:02. > :58:05.look at that issue? When the whole country had ` grammar
:58:06. > :58:10.school system there were more children at the top univershties who
:58:11. > :58:14.went to state schools. So h`ve we lost something? The system was very
:58:15. > :58:19.good at taking the brightest children, whatever their social
:58:20. > :58:24.background, and equipping them with tools to reach their potenthal. What
:58:25. > :58:28.we have changed though is that the non`grammar option is now excellent
:58:29. > :58:33.whereas in old days it was not the case.
:58:34. > :58:39.But you cannot keep that elhtism. 4% of children in a few select schools
:58:40. > :58:52.whilst privately educated pdople run the country, it has to change.
:58:53. > :58:59.Here is a roundup, with 60 seconds. Drama in Eastbourne when thd Pearl
:59:00. > :59:03.was ravaged by fire. The Prhme Minister visited.
:59:04. > :59:14.The Fire Service did an amazing job. They saved two thirds of thd pier.
:59:15. > :59:19.The East Kent hospitals trust was put into special measures and said
:59:20. > :59:23.it would work to improve. Mddway Council has signed off 5000 homes to
:59:24. > :59:27.the dismay of environmental protesters. But they are happier
:59:28. > :59:33.there will be no runway in the Thames estuary. What Boris Johnson
:59:34. > :59:37.remains buoyant. It took years to build the Channel
:59:38. > :59:43.tunnel so this thing will t`ke a while.
:59:44. > :59:50.And a UKIP representative is in trouble for using a racist term she
:59:51. > :59:55.issued an apology, and the party leader visited the family concerned
:59:56. > :00:01.to apologise. I will be taking some action.
:00:02. > :00:07.Another runway looking likely now? We need to see what is said and what
:00:08. > :00:11.the environmental and actors. We need more runways. Could be both,
:00:12. > :00:13.could be either. Thank you both very much indeed
:00:14. > :00:18.London was 150 years ago, otherwise we would have a dirty River Thames.
:00:19. > :00:23.Andrew, back to you. Can
:00:24. > :00:28.the No campaign still pull it off? And even if they do is the whole
:00:29. > :00:32.of the UK now on the brink I'm joined now by John McTernan
:00:33. > :00:49.former adviser to Gordon Brown and Tony Blair, Alex Bell,
:00:50. > :00:52.former Head of Policy for the SNP and Lindsay McIntosh, the
:00:53. > :00:54.Times Scottish Political Editor And I'm delighted that Tommy
:00:55. > :01:00.and George have stayed too. No fighting has broken out either.
:01:01. > :01:09.Where No fighting has broken out either.
:01:10. > :01:09.have three full days to go No fighting has broken out either.
:01:10. > :01:17.polling day. What is the state of play? I think the poll of polls is
:01:18. > :01:21.accurate. 49 and 51%. What is vital is to bring the undecided voters in,
:01:22. > :01:26.and they properly have about 500,000. I think there are a lot of
:01:27. > :01:30.undecided people. I think they know which way they are leaning, but they
:01:31. > :01:37.haven't jumped. The hope of the no campaign is that they will go for
:01:38. > :01:43.the status quo on Thursday. How do you assess the state of the campaign
:01:44. > :01:47.now? The crucial thing is the big swing. The swing has come towards
:01:48. > :01:54.yes, so will the momentum carry it over the line? I will think it does,
:01:55. > :01:58.because it is an antiestablishment swell, and its people responding to
:01:59. > :02:02.standard Western as the politicians and saying that they want a new way
:02:03. > :02:08.-- Westminster politicians. I think that yes will sneak it. A referendum
:02:09. > :02:14.can be more important than a general election, and the Yes campaign have
:02:15. > :02:17.had the momentum. This was the week the momentum stopped. We started the
:02:18. > :02:20.week looking as though yes were going into the lead and then it
:02:21. > :02:24.stopped and most of the recent polls show a distinct lead for the no
:02:25. > :02:29.campaign. A distinct lead? It is one or two points. It is six in one
:02:30. > :02:34.poll, two in another, aiding another. The poll of polls is a good
:02:35. > :02:39.way of measuring, and is it statistically Nick -- nip and tuck?
:02:40. > :02:43.It is the week the momentum stopped. About a fifth of the electorate
:02:44. > :02:47.That will be a quarter of the turnout have voted already, by
:02:48. > :02:52.postal vote, and they are running very strongly towards no, so there
:02:53. > :02:56.is a whole bank of votes there. The postal votes are skewed to the over
:02:57. > :03:02.60s, and that is the demographic that the Yes campaign have had the
:03:03. > :03:07.biggest trouble with. Absolutely, the Yes campaign faced a challenge
:03:08. > :03:12.amongst the 16 and 18-year-olds and always based challenge with the
:03:13. > :03:17.older voters. Trust me, I was the decision the day the civil servants
:03:18. > :03:19.made it possible for the 16 to 18-year-olds to vote, and we said
:03:20. > :03:25.there was a victory for the no campaign in that alone. The young
:03:26. > :03:29.tend to be conservative by nature. I think again that to say that the
:03:30. > :03:37.momentum has stopped when you had a 20 point lead, this is a referendum
:03:38. > :03:41.whether people will speak and they will be heard. Except for the one
:03:42. > :03:46.poll which needs a huge health warning because of the size of the
:03:47. > :03:49.sample, the momentum is unquestionably all the way through
:03:50. > :03:56.August is going in the direction of yes. It hasn't quite continue to get
:03:57. > :04:00.to the 55/45 four yes that Alex Salmond thinks will be the result. I
:04:01. > :04:06.would agree with John. This was the momentum stalled. We saw the three
:04:07. > :04:11.leaders coming up, and that kept Alex Salmond off the front pages on
:04:12. > :04:14.the television and we had a raft of economic warnings which, although
:04:15. > :04:17.they were dismissed as scaremongering, they will have had a
:04:18. > :04:24.lot of traction with voters. What does the no campaign have to do in
:04:25. > :04:29.the final three days? It has to focus on the undecided,
:04:30. > :04:32.relentlessly. It has to do stick to the question of risk and keep
:04:33. > :04:35.pushing back on Alex Salmond to say it doesn't matter if the banks
:04:36. > :04:40.leave, it will all be all right on the night. The huge question amongst
:04:41. > :04:45.the undecided voters is about the economy. It is about jobs and
:04:46. > :04:48.currency, about business. That risk is what will crystallise in the
:04:49. > :04:53.ballot box on Thursday and that has to be the focus. What does the Yes
:04:54. > :04:57.campaign have to do? It has to drive home that the swing to the Yes
:04:58. > :05:01.campaign is motivated by people who want a different politics. They have
:05:02. > :05:03.decided amongst themselves that they want to change Scotland. The
:05:04. > :05:09.unfortunate thing is, even though the no campaign has had the chance
:05:10. > :05:12.to put up after proposals, they have failed. The Scottish people want
:05:13. > :05:17.their powers were a purpose and they say that only the Yes campaign can
:05:18. > :05:20.deliver that. There will be two days of relentless campaigning from
:05:21. > :05:23.today, Monday and Tuesday, then the media, the newspapers, including
:05:24. > :05:29.your own, will come out with the final poll, the ones that will be
:05:30. > :05:34.the closest to the day that the Scots actually go and vote. I think
:05:35. > :05:36.we will see more polling this week, but what is interesting is the
:05:37. > :05:40.extent to which the pollsters are picking up what is going on in the
:05:41. > :05:43.street. We know we have a huge number of voters who have never
:05:44. > :05:49.voted before and are not engage with politics, so what will they do? The
:05:50. > :05:53.third candidate in the election if I can would in this way, are the
:05:54. > :05:57.polls. They might have a lot of questions to answer on Friday
:05:58. > :05:59.morning. We were talking earlier with George and Tommy about the
:06:00. > :06:05.Labour Party's consequences in all of this. Gordon Brown, of course,
:06:06. > :06:09.has had a bit of a second coming as a result of this referendum. I just
:06:10. > :06:13.want to play a clip of Gordon Brown during the campaign and get a
:06:14. > :06:22.reaction. And I say this to Alex Salmond himself. Up until today I am
:06:23. > :06:25.outside front line politics. If he continues to peddle this deception,
:06:26. > :06:29.that the Scottish Parliament under his leadership, and he cannot do
:06:30. > :06:37.anything to improve the health service until he has a separate
:06:38. > :06:40.state, then I will want to join Joe Hanlon want in and securing the
:06:41. > :06:48.return of a Labour government as quickly as possible -- Johann
:06:49. > :06:51.Lamont. That was seen by some people as Gordon Brown implying he might
:06:52. > :06:54.stand for the Scottish Parliament. Whether it is yes or no, is Gordon
:06:55. > :07:01.Brown the saviour of Scottish Labour? I did a double black the
:07:02. > :07:05.other night -- double act with him the other night, and I must say he
:07:06. > :07:11.was a big beast all over again. He crossed the stage Meli dealt with
:07:12. > :07:14.the audience brilliantly. He has a certain presence, Gordon Brown, but
:07:15. > :07:20.he would really have to reinvent himself quite considerably. He is
:07:21. > :07:25.capable of doing, but the man who was the biographer of Jimmy Maxton,
:07:26. > :07:29.who pulled together the original red paper on Scotland, he would have to
:07:30. > :07:33.be that Gordon Brown rather than the Gordon Brown of some more melancholy
:07:34. > :07:36.events later. Tommy, you have both been critical of the state of the
:07:37. > :07:40.Scottish Labour Party. Rather than looking to Gordon Brown, which might
:07:41. > :07:44.be an interim solution, doesn't Scottish Labour have to find a new
:07:45. > :07:48.generation of people to reignite it? What George and I are agreed on and
:07:49. > :07:53.you have to remember this question of independence see us disagreeing
:07:54. > :07:57.passionately, and in most other things we find ourselves in
:07:58. > :08:00.agreement, one thing is clear, Scottish Labour is finished. They
:08:01. > :08:07.have lost the heart and soul of Scotland. The fact that we are
:08:08. > :08:12.discussing with four days to go an independence referendum that is neck
:08:13. > :08:14.and neck, Labour have failed miserably, absolutely miserably
:08:15. > :08:19.because they have given up everything they stood for. The SNP
:08:20. > :08:22.has picked it up. They have just taken on the bank -- mantle of a
:08:23. > :08:27.left of centre party and are picking up support. Gordon and the rest in
:08:28. > :08:30.my opinion, they represent the past. The yes vote on the Yes campaign
:08:31. > :08:36.represents the future. What do you say to that? There is nothing
:08:37. > :08:41.socialist about an SNP that wants to cut business tax by 3% in the pan.
:08:42. > :08:43.There is nothing socialist about an SNP destroying further education so
:08:44. > :08:49.they can give middle-class people free education. The Labour Party is
:08:50. > :08:55.alive and kicking. You can see if it is Gordon Brown, or Jim Murphy with
:08:56. > :08:59.the 100 days tour. But I hesitate to use this word, but they are kind of
:09:00. > :09:04.privatised from the Scottish Labour Party. They have rode their own
:09:05. > :09:07.fallow. Jim Murphy was on the stump because official Scottish Labour did
:09:08. > :09:12.not want him leading their campaign. Gordon Brown was, I think, kept off
:09:13. > :09:18.the stage until it became so critical that he had to be brought
:09:19. > :09:25.back. I agree with John, the SNP talks left but acts right. That is
:09:26. > :09:28.before they get state powers. That is what is exciting about the
:09:29. > :09:32.referendum, it's not about the SNP, it's about the people deciding. What
:09:33. > :09:35.we have heard so far in the referendum campaign is that there is
:09:36. > :09:38.a desperate yearning in the electorate for real politics,
:09:39. > :09:41.purposeful politics and for the people to be represented. It is
:09:42. > :09:46.probably to the eternal shame of labour that they gave up that role
:09:47. > :09:49.and other people are now taking it upon themselves. How would you
:09:50. > :09:54.assess the state of the Labour Party? The problem is that it was
:09:55. > :09:57.demolished by the SNP in 2011 and what they should have done since
:09:58. > :10:01.then and in other circumstances is take a real look within themselves
:10:02. > :10:04.and brought forward new talent and policies and watch out what they
:10:05. > :10:11.stood for. They've been unable to do that because they are locked in a
:10:12. > :10:15.constitutional row. It is the plan of the Nationalists to fight the
:10:16. > :10:17.first Scottish general election as an independent nation as a
:10:18. > :10:22.nationalist party with its own programme. You don't all go your own
:10:23. > :10:26.way. Why don't you do that? You have more on your main reason to be, so
:10:27. > :10:32.why not go, left, right and centre question you are presuming you don't
:10:33. > :10:35.go the one-way. I do not see the function of the SNP after the yes
:10:36. > :10:40.vote. I think it is clear that there is an SNP under Nicola Sturgeon an
:10:41. > :10:43.SNP which attracts votes from the left and that is the one for me
:10:44. > :10:46.Whether that is called the SNP or something else, I don't know. I
:10:47. > :10:51.think the assumption that we are going into a mirror of old politics
:10:52. > :10:59.in a new world is just fundamentally flawed. That is interesting. Let's
:11:00. > :11:02.just bring in the English dimensional. In many ways, England
:11:03. > :11:07.has not spoken in this referendum campaign. Whether it is yes or no,
:11:08. > :11:11.it will, and to give you a flavour of what some in England might be
:11:12. > :11:16.thinking was saying, here is a clip from John Redwood. We are fed up
:11:17. > :11:20.with this lopsided devolution, this unfair devolution. Scotland gets
:11:21. > :11:23.first-class Devolution, Wales gets second-class devolution and England
:11:24. > :11:27.gets nothing. If Wales wants the same as us, they should have it and
:11:28. > :11:31.then there would be commonality so we could discuss and decide in our
:11:32. > :11:38.own countries, in our own assemblies in Parliament, all those things that
:11:39. > :11:41.are devolved. George, it was clear that if Scotland voted yes for
:11:42. > :11:45.independence it has huge implications for England than the
:11:46. > :11:49.UK, but it's also clear particularly after Gordon Brown's intervention,
:11:50. > :11:53.even if it is no, it has huge applications. You are, I suggest,
:11:54. > :11:58.agreeing with John Redwood that there should be an English boys It
:11:59. > :12:03.would be a step too far for me to agree with him -- English voice I
:12:04. > :12:10.appreciate I might have gone out on a limb. He is the voice of Mars the
:12:11. > :12:14.Balkan from Mars. My own constituents in Bradford are asking,
:12:15. > :12:18.what about us? All these things being done, all the extra mile is
:12:19. > :12:23.being travel to Scotland, what about us? Labour would be well advised to
:12:24. > :12:29.adjust quickly on this so that the John Redwood types do not steal the
:12:30. > :12:33.show. England has yes to use -- yet to speak. It's interesting when you
:12:34. > :12:40.hear a Labour backbencher in Scotland talk about a command paper.
:12:41. > :12:43.He is not in government. Gordon Brown is going round Scotland
:12:44. > :12:47.promising things and he has absolutely no chance of delivering
:12:48. > :12:51.them. The MPs in England will say, hey, what are you talking about We
:12:52. > :12:56.have never been discussed with that? We have not agreed with that. The
:12:57. > :13:00.only way people in Scotland will get the powers they deserve is by voting
:13:01. > :13:05.yes. Crystal ball time, Tommy, you think it is 60/40. I will stick with
:13:06. > :13:10.it, because we have an unprecedented election. 97% of Scotland is
:13:11. > :13:16.registered to vote. The working class will vote in numbers never
:13:17. > :13:23.voted before. George? 55/45 for our side. And if there is a rogue poll,
:13:24. > :13:27.the tek Levesley polled -- technically flawed poll, which
:13:28. > :13:30.should not be published because it is so flawed, then we would be
:13:31. > :13:33.stretching towards what I am predicting already. I think in the
:13:34. > :13:38.last few days we will reach that. Come on. If the no campaign can get
:13:39. > :13:45.the silent majority out, they will edge it. You think they will win,
:13:46. > :13:51.but how much? They cannot give up in a second, a moment or a mile. It is
:13:52. > :13:58.that close. It will be won by the passionate view. I will go for a
:13:59. > :14:05.narrow yes victory. I'm the George, 53 or 54% in favour of Joe -- no. --
:14:06. > :14:08.I am with George. I will leave you to argue about that later. Thank you
:14:09. > :14:11.for being with us on the special Sunday politics from Edinburgh.
:14:12. > :14:12.That's all from us today in Scotland.
:14:13. > :14:15.Don't forget the Daily Politics will have continuing coverage
:14:16. > :14:17.of the referendum campaign all this week on BBC2 at midday.
:14:18. > :14:21.On Thursday night Huw Edwards will be in Glasgow and I will be
:14:22. > :14:24.in London to bring you live coverage of the results on BBC1 from 10. 0 pm
:14:25. > :14:28.on a historic night for Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom.
:14:29. > :14:31.And I'll be back next Sunday when we're live from the Labour
:14:32. > :14:38.Unless, of course, the referendum result is so tumultuous even the
:14:39. > :14:44.Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.