:00:35. > :00:41.There's another candidate in the race to become Ukip's next
:00:42. > :00:43.leader: Suzanne Evans, the party's former deputy chairman,
:00:44. > :00:50.This man might have something to say about that.
:00:51. > :00:53.Paul Nuttal was Nigel Farage's deputy for many years.
:00:54. > :00:56.So is he now ready to throw his hat in the ring?
:00:57. > :01:01.The battle for Mosul: the Iraqi army and its allies advane
:01:02. > :01:04.on the country's second city which has been in the hands of
:01:05. > :01:16.In the south-east, Brighton and Hove from this key clash?
:01:17. > :01:18.In the south-east, Brighton and Hove Labour Party is ordered to split
:01:19. > :01:22.into three and the one of the richest cities in the
:01:23. > :01:23.world. Should all private landlords be licensed to help tackle the
:01:24. > :01:28.squalor? And with me - as always -
:01:29. > :01:31.the best and the brightest political panel in the business: Toby Young,
:01:32. > :01:34.Polly Toynbee and Tom Newton Dunn - The last leader was in the job
:01:35. > :01:44.a mere 18 days before she decided The favourite to succeed her then
:01:45. > :01:49.quit the party after a now infamous Ukip's biggest donor says the party
:01:50. > :01:55.is at "breaking point". This morning, the former
:01:56. > :02:01.Deputy Chairman, Suzanne Evans, announced that she would be
:02:02. > :02:03.running for the leadership. I've thought long and hard
:02:04. > :02:09.about this leadership bid, and one of the reasons I've perhaps
:02:10. > :02:12.delayed announcing it is because I wanted to be absolutely
:02:13. > :02:15.sure that I had the support And I can confirm that I have
:02:16. > :02:19.more than enough signatures on the nomination form already
:02:20. > :02:21.to be able to go forward. Let's not forget that 3,000 people
:02:22. > :02:25.signed a petition in support of me I know head office was besieged
:02:26. > :02:30.with letters in support. I would not be doing this
:02:31. > :02:34.if I didn't have the backing of our members, because our members
:02:35. > :02:37.are the most important Well, Paul Nuttall was
:02:38. > :02:45.Nigel Farage's deputy for many years and plenty of people saw him
:02:46. > :02:48.as a leader-in-waiting. Let's ask the man himself -
:02:49. > :03:01.Paul Nuttall joins me now. Yes. I've made the decision that I'm
:03:02. > :03:06.going to put my name forward to be the next leader of Ukip. I have huge
:03:07. > :03:10.support across the country, not only amongst people at the top of the
:03:11. > :03:15.party in Westminster and with the MEPs, but also the grassroots. I
:03:16. > :03:21.want to be the unity candidate. Ukip needs to come together. I'm not
:03:22. > :03:25.going to gild the lily. Ukip is looking over a political cliff at
:03:26. > :03:35.the moment. It will either step four step back, and I want to tell us to
:03:36. > :03:38.step backwards. You say it faces an ex-distension or threat, which means
:03:39. > :03:40.it's possible it has no future at all. Students of political history
:03:41. > :03:47.know that political parties take a long time to get going. They can
:03:48. > :03:51.disappear pretty quickly. Ukip is facing an existential crisis. What
:03:52. > :03:57.happened over the summer has put us on a... We could be on a spiral that
:03:58. > :04:01.we can't get off. But I believe I am the man to bring the factions
:04:02. > :04:06.together, to create unity within the party, and to build on the structure
:04:07. > :04:10.and get us ready for the common challenges. Why didn't you stand
:04:11. > :04:15.last time? Because I have spent the last four or five years of my life
:04:16. > :04:19.travelling around the country. I have done more Ukip meetings than
:04:20. > :04:25.anybody else, spending a lot of time away from home. With Brexit, I felt
:04:26. > :04:29.that my job and Nigel's job was done and we could hand over to the next
:04:30. > :04:34.generation. That doesn't seem to be the case, and maybe it's time for
:04:35. > :04:38.someone who is an old hand. I'm very experienced and I know the party
:04:39. > :04:43.inside out. Maybe it's time to step in and bring the party together You
:04:44. > :04:49.told the Liverpool Echo on the night of July that you didn't wish to take
:04:50. > :04:58.on Nigel Farage, you didn't want that to happen to your family and
:04:59. > :05:02.friends. What has changed? The party is facing an existential crisis and
:05:03. > :05:09.I want to make sure that Ukip is on the pitch to keep the ball into the
:05:10. > :05:15.open net we have in politics. We have a Conservative Party who is
:05:16. > :05:20.moving toward Brexit, but we have to be there too. Why would you be
:05:21. > :05:26.better than Suzanne Evans? Suzanne would be an excellent candidate I
:05:27. > :05:29.thought the 2015 manifesto was the best out of all the political
:05:30. > :05:33.parties. I would be the best candidate because of my experience.
:05:34. > :05:38.I am not part of any faction within the party. Is she? I get on well
:05:39. > :05:45.with everybody, and I believe I could be the man to bring the party
:05:46. > :05:50.together. Do you get on with Iain Banks, -- Aaron Banks, who is
:05:51. > :05:55.supporting one of your rivals? Yes, I get on well with him. He is able
:05:56. > :05:59.to choose whoever he wants to be the next leader of the party. After
:06:00. > :06:04.November 28, the leadership election, we all say, the past the
:06:05. > :06:13.past. It becomes Daisy row for the new leader. We forget all that has
:06:14. > :06:15.before and move on. You won the referendum. Mrs May is adopting some
:06:16. > :06:21.of your policies, like grammar schools. What is the point of Ukip
:06:22. > :06:26.these days? Twofold. We don't have Brexit. Mrs May said she would not
:06:27. > :06:31.invoke Article 50 until the end of March, and we don't know if that
:06:32. > :06:37.will happen. We need to ensure a strong Ukip to make sure that Brexit
:06:38. > :06:40.really does mean Brexit. We have a huge opportunity in working class
:06:41. > :06:45.communities where the Labour Party no longer represents them. I believe
:06:46. > :06:49.Ukip can become the voice of working people. If you were the leader,
:06:50. > :06:54.would Ukip be a bigger threat to Labour in the north or the Tories in
:06:55. > :06:59.the South? You save Labour in the north, and people often to make that
:07:00. > :07:03.mistake. There's working class communities right across the country
:07:04. > :07:15.is. There are working-class communities in Bristol just
:07:16. > :07:19.as in Newcastle. We are second in a number of northern seats, and
:07:20. > :07:21.southern seats as well, and I believe the party can move into
:07:22. > :07:24.these communities. It can only do so if Ukip is on the pitch, and I
:07:25. > :07:30.intend to make sure that's the case. I don't think we have portrayed a
:07:31. > :07:37.good image over the summer. Is that called British understatement? A
:07:38. > :07:42.bit. It is dysfunctional. We have to move on beyond Nigel Farage. We have
:07:43. > :07:47.to build a strong national Executive Committee. We need to ensure our
:07:48. > :07:51.branches are ready for the fight and concentrate on local elections. I've
:07:52. > :07:57.got the experience. I'm now throwing my hat into the ring, and I'm the
:07:58. > :08:02.only person who can keep Ukip in the game. What role would you give Nigel
:08:03. > :08:06.Farage, if any? I will be the candidate of compromise. I would see
:08:07. > :08:10.what Nigel wanted to do. Would you keep in the leader of the freedom
:08:11. > :08:14.and democracy group in the European Parliament? There would have to be
:08:15. > :08:21.compromise on both sides, and we would need to talk about it. I don't
:08:22. > :08:25.know what Nigel wants to do. Do you think his support, his association
:08:26. > :08:30.with Donald Trump, helps Ukip win female votes in this country?
:08:31. > :08:34.Personally, I would not have gone out and campaigned or said anything
:08:35. > :08:40.about Donald Trump, but I don't think Ukip has come out and backed
:08:41. > :08:44.Donald Trump 100%. Personally, I wouldn't have even spoken about the
:08:45. > :08:49.American election, because I think the two candidates are quite
:08:50. > :08:54.appalling. Some up for us. If you win, what would be the hallmark of
:08:55. > :09:00.your Ukip leadership? The first couple of months would be ensuring
:09:01. > :09:06.that Ukip unifies. Saying no to factions, bringing people together.
:09:07. > :09:11.Suzanne Evans, Nigel Farage, all of the MEPs, and ensuring that Ukip can
:09:12. > :09:15.move forward. If we don't unify Ukip will not be around for much
:09:16. > :09:17.longer. Thanks for being with us this morning.
:09:18. > :09:20.We won't have to wait too long to find out who Ukip's
:09:21. > :09:22.new leader will be - the winner will be announced
:09:23. > :09:32.Who would be the best leader for Ukip? I think the difference between
:09:33. > :09:36.the field a few weeks ago and today is that this field is a lot
:09:37. > :09:43.stronger. Whether it's Paul or Suzanne, I think... It is hard to
:09:44. > :09:53.say, with Aaron Banks and apparently Nigel Farage hacking another
:09:54. > :10:03.candidate, Raheem, but I want Ukip to be a strong force in British
:10:04. > :10:09.politics. I think the fact there is a stronger field now is good news
:10:10. > :10:15.for Ukip. Is it a Labour's worst nightmare in the north of England?
:10:16. > :10:19.It is. I think the personality difference and presentational
:10:20. > :10:23.difference is interesting. Suzanne Evans is going for the Conservative
:10:24. > :10:27.county vote. There's a lot to be taken there by Ukip. He would
:10:28. > :10:34.probably be more appealing to the Labour vote. It is interesting. At
:10:35. > :10:47.the moment, pollsters say that the Ukip vote splits pretty easily
:10:48. > :10:53.between Labour and Tory. But things always collapse. When they have made
:10:54. > :10:56.inroads into Tower Hamlets and Barking, they collapse, because they
:10:57. > :11:08.fight amongst each other so much. But not always with fists! Does Ukip
:11:09. > :11:13.have a future? And who would best secure that future? It does for at
:11:14. > :11:19.least two years, until we Brexit. We have to believe that that will
:11:20. > :11:23.happen. That was an impressive pitch there from Paul, certainly as the
:11:24. > :11:28.unity candidate, after the car crash we have seen on TV screens this
:11:29. > :11:33.morning. But it doesn't go beyond May 20 19. What then? There is no
:11:34. > :11:38.point being called the United Kingdom Independence party any
:11:39. > :11:44.longer. What will happen after May 2019? If you want to hoover up votes
:11:45. > :11:48.of the back of Brexit, you need to start looking further ahead than two
:11:49. > :11:53.years. The person who wins that leadership contest is the person who
:11:54. > :11:56.will sum that up the best. We shall see.
:11:57. > :11:59.In June 2014, the group which calls itself the Islamic State in Iraq
:12:00. > :12:01.and the Levant captured Iraq's second city, Mosul.
:12:02. > :12:03.Later that month the group announced it was establishing a 'caliphate',
:12:04. > :12:05.or an Islamic state, on the territories it
:12:06. > :12:14.This week 30,000 Iraqi troops, aided by Iranian-backed Shia fighters
:12:15. > :12:20.Kurdish Peshmerga and Western air support, began the assault
:12:21. > :12:37.Then they spot a truck bomb from so-called Islamic State.
:12:38. > :12:42.They destroy it before it destroys them.
:12:43. > :12:45.These are the first steps in the battle for Mosul,
:12:46. > :12:50.the Northern Iraqi city IS has made its stronghold since 2014.
:12:51. > :12:54.Controlling the city of around 2 million people means
:12:55. > :12:58.that they established governance, they establish a territorial base.
:12:59. > :13:02.This is what has obsessed everyone, because with a territorial base
:13:03. > :13:06.you are capable of doing more than if you are simply an insurgency
:13:07. > :13:11.movement in the fabric of another society.
:13:12. > :13:15.It's being billed as the biggest military operation in Iraq
:13:16. > :13:18.since the war in 2003, the biggest moment in the international effort
:13:19. > :13:24.Here is how the various forces are approaching the city.
:13:25. > :13:29.Heading to Mosul from the south the elite troops of the Iraqi army.
:13:30. > :13:31.Known as the Golden division, trained and accompanied
:13:32. > :13:38.From the North, a force made up of Kurds, known as the Peshmerga,
:13:39. > :13:43.Also from the South, a militia made up of Shia fighters
:13:44. > :13:46.who have been accused of human rights abuses.
:13:47. > :13:49.British planes have bombed outlying villages, reportedly guided
:13:50. > :13:56.in by British personnel on the ground.
:13:57. > :13:59.To the North West, a corridor has been left for some
:14:00. > :14:02.of the 3000 plus IS fighters, in theory an escape route
:14:03. > :14:05.which could limit the bloodshed when fighting starts in the city.
:14:06. > :14:07.We've had 4-5 days of battle and it's taking place
:14:08. > :14:09.in the outlying villages and there have been some
:14:10. > :14:13.successes and some failures, but the momentum is building.
:14:14. > :14:16.And the real question will be when the attackers get
:14:17. > :14:20.towards the city itself, how strong are the defences?
:14:21. > :14:27.It will crack but it might crack within 48 hours or 2-3 weeks.
:14:28. > :14:31.IS has fought back, on Friday they attack sites
:14:32. > :14:34.in the city of Kirkuk, including a power station.
:14:35. > :14:36.The United Nations believes hundreds of thousands of families
:14:37. > :14:39.have been rounded up as potential human shields.
:14:40. > :14:43.The battle could be bloody, but what about when it's over?
:14:44. > :14:46.The Shia militias, the Iraqi army, the Peshmerga guerrillas,
:14:47. > :14:49.some of the Turkish elements, they all want a share of the action.
:14:50. > :14:52.They are in Mosul, not for altruistic reasons.
:14:53. > :14:55.They are there because they want to be part of whatever happens next.
:14:56. > :15:01.The biggest issue is how the Sunni majority in Mosul reacts to the Shia
:15:02. > :15:04.militias which have helped to liberate them.
:15:05. > :15:06.ARCHIVE FOOTAGE: When Sir Francis Humphrey went to Mosul
:15:07. > :15:11.If it all seems like something from the archive, when the Middle
:15:12. > :15:13.East went up in flames and was then carved up,
:15:14. > :15:17.it is because that is what is happening in Iraq right now.
:15:18. > :15:21.National identity has been cut across by other identities such
:15:22. > :15:32.And that means that putting together a so-called nation state again
:15:33. > :15:38.Almost certainly there will be a new form of Kurdish state,
:15:39. > :15:41.almost certainly in northern Iraq at the end of this crisis,
:15:42. > :15:44.and what is happening in Mosul is a microcosm of what is happening
:15:45. > :15:47.elsewhere across the Levant which is that it is melting down.
:15:48. > :15:50.Big questions, questions that come after the battle.
:15:51. > :15:53.The coalition forces are advancing but this is just the beginning.
:15:54. > :16:03.I'm joined now by the International Development Minister Rory Stewart.
:16:04. > :16:05.In a former life he was the coalition Deputy-Governor of two
:16:06. > :16:13.provinces in Southern Iraq following the Iraq intervention of 2003.
:16:14. > :16:23.Is there any doubt that at some stage Mosul will fall to the forces
:16:24. > :16:32.of Iraq and its allies? The first thing is that war is very uncertain
:16:33. > :16:36.and there are cliches about it being the graveyard of predictions and we
:16:37. > :16:40.don't want to make confident predictions but the basic structure
:16:41. > :16:50.is that there are 30,000 Iraqi forces outside and only a few
:16:51. > :16:53.thousand Daesh fighters inside and I would say it is overwhelmingly
:16:54. > :17:01.likely that the batter will one STUDIO: -- the battle the won by the
:17:02. > :17:09.Iraqi forces. June 2014 was a great success, they
:17:10. > :17:14.took a city of over in people and they created what they tried to
:17:15. > :17:17.create a million state of 7 million people, stretching across the Iraqi
:17:18. > :17:23.Syrian border, but since then they have lost territory quite rapidly.
:17:24. > :17:27.Now they are losing the outskirts of Mosul, and that is a fundamental
:17:28. > :17:29.blow. Islamic State is all about territory and holding state, that is
:17:30. > :17:37.what makes it different from Al-Qaeda. If they lose Mosul that
:17:38. > :17:42.will be a cynic -- significant blow to their credibility. Hillary
:17:43. > :17:45.Clinton said on Wednesday's presidential debate that when Iraqi
:17:46. > :17:49.forces with their allies including the United Kingdom gain control of
:17:50. > :17:56.Mosul they should continue to press into Syria to take back Raqqa which
:17:57. > :18:01.is the de facto capital of the caliphate, what is left of it, do we
:18:02. > :18:08.want Iraqi forces to pursue IS into Syria? Very important question.
:18:09. > :18:11.Delayed in Raqqa needs to come from people on the Syrian side of the
:18:12. > :18:17.border and that is an important principle -- the lead. In the end of
:18:18. > :18:21.that enemy, Islamic State, is a common enemy for odd members of the
:18:22. > :18:29.coalition including the Iraqi government. -- all members. There is
:18:30. > :18:33.likely to be a humanitarian crisis especially if it ends up with street
:18:34. > :18:38.to street fighting and IS are difficult to dislodge what are we
:18:39. > :18:43.doing about that? We are doing very detailed scenario planning. It is
:18:44. > :18:47.very uncertain what the scenario will be but much investment has gone
:18:48. > :18:57.into creating a network of camps, refugees STUDIO: Refugee camps
:18:58. > :19:03.around cash refugee camps, and that is where money, British money, 40
:19:04. > :19:07.million has gone recently into supporting that, especially in terms
:19:08. > :19:14.of medical support to people. The United nation's emergency response
:19:15. > :19:17.budget is ?196 million but only one third funded which sounds like we
:19:18. > :19:22.are putting up a big chunk of what is already being funded. Why is
:19:23. > :19:25.that? The international committee can't say they haven't seen this
:19:26. > :19:32.assault coming, and the humanitarian fallout they may see from it. You
:19:33. > :19:35.are absolutely right. We have seen it coming and we have been planning
:19:36. > :19:41.since debris and we have put in about ?167 million into this --
:19:42. > :19:45.planning since February. There has been a change in the nature of the
:19:46. > :19:48.appeal, and if there is a lag in the accounting of it, but the money we
:19:49. > :19:53.need at this stage is in place and we do have the support structure in
:19:54. > :19:56.place for those refugees. You are right the United Nations is
:19:57. > :20:00.continuing with its appeal and is asking for more money at the moment.
:20:01. > :20:04.The converse magazine wrote this week that preparations for a big
:20:05. > :20:10.exodus of people leaving the city have been made -- Economist
:20:11. > :20:14.magazine. But confidence is not high in the preparations, is that a
:20:15. > :20:18.unfair conclusion? If you can imagine the different scenarios it
:20:19. > :20:21.could be a few thousand and it could be a few hundred thousand coming out
:20:22. > :20:26.of the city through a front line where the war is going on, that is
:20:27. > :20:30.very difficult. You have to screen those people and disarm them, and
:20:31. > :20:34.keep families together, and transport them and you have to bring
:20:35. > :20:38.them into the refugee camps. The people working on this have been
:20:39. > :20:41.working on this for long time, we have mapped the different routes we
:20:42. > :20:48.have good camp infrastructure in place and we have people who have
:20:49. > :20:51.worked in south to dam and other areas who are putting their
:20:52. > :20:55.structures in place -- South Sudan. It is never easy but I think we have
:20:56. > :21:00.done everything we can in the preparation for this. What is the
:21:01. > :21:06.British role in what will probably be an even bigger issue, assuming
:21:07. > :21:11.that Mosul is liberated and retaken, the humanitarian crisis is dealt
:21:12. > :21:17.with, what role will we play in the rebuilding of Mosul? That will be
:21:18. > :21:23.crucial to the future of Iraq, the second-biggest city and it will need
:21:24. > :21:27.to be rebuilt. It will need to be rebuilt as a community as well as
:21:28. > :21:32.bricks and mortar. And eight Sunni community that is not harassed by
:21:33. > :21:38.the Shia. -- and eight. You are right. One of the core drivers is
:21:39. > :21:41.that the Sunni community felt excluded and they did not feel they
:21:42. > :21:47.have the trust from the Baghdad government. A lasting solution is
:21:48. > :21:52.stopping some of Islamic State coming back, that involves making
:21:53. > :21:57.sure the Sunni community have a stake in their future. That is
:21:58. > :22:02.making sure that the governing structures are in place. The UK s
:22:03. > :22:07.response is twofold, we have got to get the humanitarian aid right, that
:22:08. > :22:12.is the short term, people who might be malnourished, coming out of the
:22:13. > :22:16.front line. The second thing is working with the Iraqi government to
:22:17. > :22:20.make sure that as we rebuild Mosul we do so in a way that that
:22:21. > :22:27.population feels a connection to the Iraqi state. Islamic State is losing
:22:28. > :22:32.territory everywhere in the Levant, it is almost finished in Iraq, we
:22:33. > :22:37.think. It is down to one district in Libya, as well, just one small part
:22:38. > :22:41.of the town. I suppose the risk is, if life is becoming more difficult
:22:42. > :22:47.across these areas, it can start to look more in Europe and the United
:22:48. > :22:54.Kingdom as a place to continue its terrorist attacks? That is a real
:22:55. > :22:57.danger. You are right. This is a group which has proved over the last
:22:58. > :23:03.five years very unpredictable and it changes for it quickly full stop
:23:04. > :23:09.often it does unexpected things In 2009 its predecessor had been
:23:10. > :23:12.largely wiped out in Iraq and when it was under pressure in Syria it
:23:13. > :23:16.went back into Iraq, and in the past it didn't hold territory but now it
:23:17. > :23:20.holds territory, so you are right. There is a serious risk that as it
:23:21. > :23:24.gets squeezed in the middle East it will try to pop up somewhere else
:23:25. > :23:28.and Mac could include Europe and the United States -- that could. They
:23:29. > :23:34.say that is something they have focused on full stop we also have a
:23:35. > :23:37.big focus on counterterrorism security and making sure that we
:23:38. > :23:49.keep the United Kingdom and Europe say. One final question. -- say --
:23:50. > :23:52.safe. Maybe events in Mosul could add to the migration crisis in
:23:53. > :23:59.Europe, is that a possibility? Again, you are right, we have seen
:24:00. > :24:02.in Syria it can push migration, the biggest push the migration was the
:24:03. > :24:05.conflict in Syria, and that's the reason why we have but so much
:24:06. > :24:10.energy into getting those refugee camps in place and getting the
:24:11. > :24:14.humanitarian response in place - put so much energy. People will want
:24:15. > :24:17.to remain in their homes, this is their country, but we have got to
:24:18. > :24:21.make it possible for them and that means in the short term looking
:24:22. > :24:24.after their shelter and in the medium to long-term making sure they
:24:25. > :24:30.have livelihoods, jobs and an economic development which is why
:24:31. > :24:34.our support in Iraq is in the UK National interests because it deals
:24:35. > :24:41.with these issues of migration and terrorists. Thanks for joining us.
:24:42. > :24:48.I'm joined now by the Shadow Defence Secretary.
:24:49. > :25:00.Does Labour support British participation in this offensive We
:25:01. > :25:05.fully support the participation in this offensive, extremely important
:25:06. > :25:10.move forward and we voted for this back in 2014. We are asking the
:25:11. > :25:14.government question is, of course, I was asking the Secretary of State
:25:15. > :25:19.this week about this very offensive but we are fully behind our RAF
:25:20. > :25:24.pilots out there and be trading that has been going on to help the forces
:25:25. > :25:28.on the ground. -- the training full stop that is very clear. I wonder if
:25:29. > :25:36.you'll lead it shares that clarity and that position. -- is your
:25:37. > :25:37.leader. This is what Jeremy Corbyn has said.
:25:38. > :25:40.What's been done in Iraq is done by the Iraqi
:25:41. > :25:42.government, and currently supported by the British government.
:25:43. > :25:44.I did not support it when it came up.
:25:45. > :25:47.Well, I'm not sure how successful it's been, because most
:25:48. > :25:51.of the action now appears to be moving in to Syria, so I think we
:25:52. > :26:00.He doesn't sound very supportive. The issue about Mosul, it has been
:26:01. > :26:04.very carefully prepared as Rory Stewart said and I hope we have
:26:05. > :26:08.learned the lessons from previous offensives where we haven't learnt
:26:09. > :26:13.sufficiently, and that is going to be crucial in this context. How the
:26:14. > :26:18.aftermath is going to be dealt with. Of course will stop that clip was
:26:19. > :26:26.from November last year, and things have changed. Two weeks ago he told
:26:27. > :26:30.the BBC" I'm not sure it is working", in reference to air
:26:31. > :26:34.strikes in Iraq, but it is working. We have got to see what happens in
:26:35. > :26:37.Mosul, it is a very high-risk operation, but we also have to face
:26:38. > :26:41.the fact that the people there are living under tyranny at the moment.
:26:42. > :26:49.We have to ask very cirrus question shall stop he says he's not sure it
:26:50. > :26:53.is working, when Mosul is the last major target be cleared of Islamic
:26:54. > :26:58.State in Iraq. The combination of Allied air power has worked, why is
:26:59. > :27:03.he not sure it is working? Because we have seen difficulties in the
:27:04. > :27:07.past. But this was two weeks ago. It is essential that the work is done,
:27:08. > :27:10.both planning for the refugees as Rory Stewart referred to, but also
:27:11. > :27:16.in terms of reconstruction of the city and its community as you
:27:17. > :27:20.mentioned. These are vital. This was about the ability to make progress
:27:21. > :27:26.with Allied air power, special forces in Iraq, on the ground, do
:27:27. > :27:37.you accept so far that has a strategy that seems to be working to
:27:38. > :27:46.read Iraq of Islamic -- to read Iraq of Islamic State the question of the
:27:47. > :27:54.car began placement. Ulloa -- we can't be complacent. The problems
:27:55. > :27:58.they are creating where ever they are urged that we must continue to
:27:59. > :28:02.pursue them. This is the first time we have spoken to since you have
:28:03. > :28:07.become the Shadow Defence Secretary. I hope we will have a longer
:28:08. > :28:13.interview. Will Labour's next manifesto include a commitment to
:28:14. > :28:17.the renewal of Trident? It will We made that commitment in 2007, that
:28:18. > :28:20.is a firm commitment and we will honour that to our coalition allies
:28:21. > :28:25.and our industrial partners and that is the vote which was taken
:28:26. > :28:28.democratically and repeatedly has been reaffirmed by Labour conference
:28:29. > :28:36.and we are a democratic party vote up you have squared that with Jeremy
:28:37. > :28:39.Corbyn? He's in favour of democracy and he understands the situation,
:28:40. > :28:43.but we also want to push for the UK to play a much bigger role on the
:28:44. > :28:49.international stage on multilateral disarmament talks. You were very
:28:50. > :28:54.clear there, I thank you for that. Support for Trident will be in the
:28:55. > :28:58.next Labour manifesto. What has happened to Labour's review of
:28:59. > :29:02.Trident policy? That review has been taking place over the year, we had a
:29:03. > :29:06.very clear reaffirmation in the conference boat this year, we are
:29:07. > :29:14.reaffirming our commitment to Trident -- vote. The review can t
:29:15. > :29:17.change that? There is a process of review and a fair number of issues
:29:18. > :29:24.related to defence, all parties do this. Of course. The review can t
:29:25. > :29:28.change the commitment to Trident? We are not changing the commitment to
:29:29. > :29:33.Trident. Russia is now the main strategic threat to this country? It
:29:34. > :29:35.is a major strategic threat and we have got to work with our Nato
:29:36. > :29:40.allies very closely and make sure that we respond and that we do not
:29:41. > :29:44.let things pass. For example, we should be calling out Russia for the
:29:45. > :29:49.way it has been a bombing humanitarian aid and we should be
:29:50. > :29:53.taking them to international court over this, but we should also be
:29:54. > :29:59.strengthening sanctions, somewhat imposed over Ukraine. We try to do
:30:00. > :30:03.that, but the Italians wouldn't let us. The Italians did not want to
:30:04. > :30:08.participate in the European initiative but that doesn't stop
:30:09. > :30:13.individual countries for the Britain should step up? Yes, we should look
:30:14. > :30:19.at what is practical to impose. Thanks for joining us.
:30:20. > :30:22.Mosul is not the only major battle being waged in the Middle East.
:30:23. > :30:25.The city of Aleppo in northern Syria has seen some of the heaviest
:30:26. > :30:28.bombardment since Syria's five-year-long civil war began.
:30:29. > :30:31.This week Russian warships, in a deliberate show of power,
:30:32. > :30:35.sailed west through the English channel en route to Syria.
:30:36. > :30:38.Nato says it's Russia's "largest surface deployment" since the end
:30:39. > :30:41.of the Cold War in what is thought to be preparation
:30:42. > :30:46.for a final assault on the besieged city of Aleppo.
:30:47. > :30:50.In the city itself fighting resumed overnight -
:30:51. > :30:55.following a 3-day ceasefire - with more air strikes and heavy
:30:56. > :30:58.clashes in the city's rebel-held eastern districts.
:30:59. > :31:00.Almost 500 people have been killed and 2,000 injured
:31:01. > :31:04.since Syrian government forces, backed by Russian air strikes,
:31:05. > :31:12.This week Theresa May condemned Vladimir Putin's involvement
:31:13. > :31:14.in Syria, accusing Moscow of being behind "sickening
:31:15. > :31:18.atrocities" in support of President Assad's regime.
:31:19. > :31:22.But European leaders are divided on how to respond and,
:31:23. > :31:25.with the United States preoccupied with domestic politics,
:31:26. > :31:28.President Putin senses this is his moment to bring the Syrian
:31:29. > :31:37.I'm joined now by the BBC's former Diplomatic and Moscow Correspondent,
:31:38. > :31:44.Bridget Kendall, who is now Master of Peterhouse College in Cambridge.
:31:45. > :31:52.Welcome. Good to see you in the BBC studio again. Let me put up this
:31:53. > :32:00.satellite image of Aleppo here, to get an idea of the scale. It was the
:32:01. > :32:05.biggest city in Syria. It was the commercial capital and a huge
:32:06. > :32:08.cultural hub as well. Almost the New York of Syria, to give you an idea
:32:09. > :32:14.of its significance to the country. Let me show you now how it's been
:32:15. > :32:22.divided. The rebels are now in control of the eastern part, about
:32:23. > :32:25.eight miles long and three miles wide there, they're in purple. They
:32:26. > :32:32.are under great attacks still. Is it inevitable that that purple part
:32:33. > :32:38.falls to the regime? That is what President as Saad, the Russians and
:32:39. > :32:45.the Iranians hope. The fierce bombardments we have seen is part of
:32:46. > :32:51.that. I'm reminded very much in the Russian tactics of what happened in
:32:52. > :32:55.grudgingly in Chechnya in 2000, when the Russians said, a warning for all
:32:56. > :33:01.civilians to lead, and then they went ahead and they basically raised
:33:02. > :33:05.it to the ground. They are talking about Al Nusrah as being one of the
:33:06. > :33:10.rebel groups. They got rid of all of the terrorists. They talk about it
:33:11. > :33:14.being an Al-Qaeda offshoot. The purpose of going in is to get rid of
:33:15. > :33:19.them. You get the civilians out and then you take it. But this isn't
:33:20. > :33:24.like Chechnya. It is much more complex. We have seen an attempt to
:33:25. > :33:29.take Aleppo before, and then there was a rebel counter offensive. It's
:33:30. > :33:33.not so certain. And there are so many different parties involved We
:33:34. > :33:37.have seen the alarm in the west of the extent of the civilian
:33:38. > :33:46.casualties. There have been rumblings in the west of, shouldn't
:33:47. > :33:49.the United States do something? Shouldn't they stop the Syrian air
:33:50. > :33:52.force? This Russian aircraft carrier steaming its way towards the Eastern
:33:53. > :34:00.Mediterranean is a symbolic gesture, both to its own people, but also to
:34:01. > :34:06.the West, to say, don't get involved in Aleppo if we go ahead. Don't try
:34:07. > :34:10.and stop us because we could up the ante. They have not been great
:34:11. > :34:15.visual pictures, because the aircraft carrier looks a bit clapped
:34:16. > :34:22.out, belching out smoke! If the rebel controlled area does fall it
:34:23. > :34:27.would be seen as a great victory for President as Saad and his Russian
:34:28. > :34:31.allies. What is the aim of Russia here? What would they then do, if
:34:32. > :34:36.Aleppo Falls? It is part of a plan that President Putin set out in his
:34:37. > :34:42.UN speech in 2014, before Russia went into Syria. The aim is to put
:34:43. > :34:47.President Assad back in charge. President Putin said this weekend
:34:48. > :34:52.that either is Assad in Damascus, or its Al Nusrah. There is nothing in
:34:53. > :34:57.between. They want to eliminate the argument for a moderate opposition.
:34:58. > :35:04.They want to make it plain that the only way to get a stable Syria is to
:35:05. > :35:13.have Assad back in charge. Even sue argue for a rump steak lit, leaving
:35:14. > :35:18.aside what is happening with IAS. They have already said they want to
:35:19. > :35:24.have an enlarged military presence at their bases. And they have a big
:35:25. > :35:29.naval base. It is. It is a chance to push for this when he sees the West
:35:30. > :35:36.is being distracted and divided Europe and America, by elections and
:35:37. > :35:41.so on. Just before the US elections. The Americans are worried about
:35:42. > :35:46.that, Europeans are being distracted by Brexit. He can push to his
:35:47. > :35:54.maximum advantage now, before there is a new US president. If they do
:35:55. > :36:03.take that part of Aleppo, and that part of northern Syria, does Mr
:36:04. > :36:08.Putin want us to recognise, to admit, that that is now his sphere
:36:09. > :36:12.of influence? I think the rhetoric from the Russians is that they want
:36:13. > :36:17.the West to recognise that they are an equal powerful partner. It's not
:36:18. > :36:22.just the US that runs the writ in the Middle East. Russia is as
:36:23. > :36:27.important as it is. It is engaging with Saudi Arabia and has mended
:36:28. > :36:33.fences with Turkey. Syria is the place from which it can launch its
:36:34. > :36:39.message that it is a big player in the Middle East. Russia wants the
:36:40. > :36:42.West to understand that this isn't a country that was dismembered after
:36:43. > :36:46.the end of the Soviet Union and is now a week. It is back, and it is
:36:47. > :36:53.strong. That is an important message. Looking at the economy It
:36:54. > :36:59.is in recession. GDP has been falling, partly because of the price
:37:00. > :37:03.of oil. It is highly dependent on hydrocarbons, and is expected to
:37:04. > :37:08.fall again. Its people are falling again. People don't realise how
:37:09. > :37:15.small the Russian economy is. Its GDP is about the size of Italy's. It
:37:16. > :37:23.is smaller than the UK economy. Bigger than it was 15 or 20 years
:37:24. > :37:29.ago. But so is Britain's does it help to take people's mind of this?
:37:30. > :37:35.A huge shock to the Russian economy was a drop in the price of oil and a
:37:36. > :37:40.price of gas. A drop in the price of the ruble as well. This is hurting
:37:41. > :37:45.the people of Russia. On the one hand, it is the war in Syria, which
:37:46. > :37:51.is very important for Russia to sort out that part of the world and
:37:52. > :37:58.dispensed terrorists who might be danger to -- is dangerous to Russia.
:37:59. > :38:03.But he had also has presidential election is going up. They are
:38:04. > :38:07.supposed to be 2018, but some feel he will bring them forward to 2 17,
:38:08. > :38:11.because the economy is not doing so well. But you need a good story for
:38:12. > :38:14.the Russian people. Thank you very much.
:38:15. > :38:26.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now
:38:27. > :38:28.This is Sunday politics in the south-east.
:38:29. > :38:31.Coming up later, the Prime Linster has been accused of dither `nd delay
:38:32. > :38:36.It is, to be at least anothdr year before we finally know
:38:37. > :38:45.whether Gatwick, Heathrow or both are allowed to expand.
:38:46. > :38:46.We all get reaction from politicians and protesters
:38:47. > :38:50.Joining me in the studio Gordon Henderson, the Conservative
:38:51. > :38:53.MP for Sittingbourne and Shdppy and Labour's Baroness Maggid Jones.
:38:54. > :38:59.Gordon, it is the first that we have seen you since you spent tile
:39:00. > :39:02.in intensive care in the sulmer you suffered serious burns
:39:03. > :39:04.after trying to light a bonfire with petrol.
:39:05. > :39:13.It was a very stupid thing to do and would like to take this
:39:14. > :39:15.opportunity to remind peopld do not use petrol on bonfires.
:39:16. > :39:19.No matter how safe you think it is and I had been using ht
:39:20. > :39:22.for years, but one occasion it was not safe and that bldw
:39:23. > :39:29.And I know you suffered serhous burns.
:39:30. > :39:42.I'm back to full health, still the paving, my body
:39:43. > :39:45.is still the paving sort yot look of your energy goes into th`t
:39:46. > :39:49.process and it will take up to two years to fully recover but H am back
:39:50. > :39:54.Lesson almost learned because I fell out of a tred again
:39:55. > :40:03.Now, the split in the Labour Party between Jeremy Corbyn supporters
:40:04. > :40:05.and moderates has been no where more pronounced
:40:06. > :40:09.The branch there was suspended pending an investigation into claims
:40:10. > :40:12.of bullying and intimidation and accusations of a ballot run
:40:13. > :40:14.improperly at the party's annual general meeting in July.
:40:15. > :40:16.This week Labour's rulling NEC ordered the local Party,
:40:17. > :40:19.the biggest in the country, to be split into three separate
:40:20. > :40:27.It also expelled Mark Sandell, who was elected chair at th`t AGM.
:40:28. > :40:30.He joins us from our Brighton studio.
:40:31. > :40:39.The Labour Party will not tdll us why they expelled you and s`y
:40:40. > :40:42.they do not comment on individual members so I am hoping you can tell
:40:43. > :40:45.us why you have been kicked out of the party.
:40:46. > :40:48.I was not expelled by the National Executive,
:40:49. > :40:51.there has not been a vote on my expulsion, I was
:40:52. > :40:53.expelled by Ian McNicol, the general secretary,
:40:54. > :40:55.who wrote me a letter, which I have here.
:40:56. > :40:57.It basically is happening because the Brighton
:40:58. > :41:12.and Hove Labour Party was won by the left and an overwhelling
:41:13. > :41:16.style in an AGM 600 and since that vote happened there has been various
:41:17. > :41:18.people panicking about the result and that led to the
:41:19. > :41:23.These are the reasons it is happening and the reasons
:41:24. > :41:26.are because they are trying to silence the left of the party
:41:27. > :41:30.For example, 600 people's votes have basically been
:41:31. > :41:33.The AGM investigation has not come out with any concrete findings
:41:34. > :41:36.and yet we are being told we will be broken down
:41:37. > :41:50.Some people think that is a better system for the local party,
:41:51. > :41:53.the fact is we had a democr`tic meeting which was
:41:54. > :42:02.the investigation has not found any of alleged any of the alleg`tions
:42:03. > :42:04.were upheld, and yet we are facing a situation
:42:05. > :42:11.where still the Labour Partx in Brighton and Hove cannot meet,
:42:12. > :42:13.we are basically voiceless, the ordinary memembers,
:42:14. > :42:16.the existing executive is jtst the old executive left in place
:42:17. > :42:19.the people who won the election have had their vote annulled and be 00
:42:20. > :42:24.Well, most of them are still members of the constituency Labour Party.
:42:25. > :42:26.There is 15 people suspended and you have been expelled.
:42:27. > :42:29.As you know, there has been other allegations about you in particular
:42:30. > :42:32.and it is against Labour Party rules to be an entryist, in other words,
:42:33. > :42:35.being a member of another p`rty and then join Labour in orddr
:42:36. > :42:38.to influence its politics as you know, you have been ` member
:42:39. > :42:41.of the Alliance for Workers' Liberty for many years on and off
:42:42. > :42:46.and that actively works against the Labour Party.
:42:47. > :42:49.Firstly, the letter I have from Ian McNicol does not claim I am
:42:50. > :42:53.a member of the Alliance Workers Liberty because I am not.
:42:54. > :42:59.What it says is I am an acthve supporter of the Alliance Workers
:43:00. > :43:01.of the Alliance Workers Libdrty which is true and I have
:43:02. > :43:05.and that was well known when I rejoined the Labour Party
:43:06. > :43:08.a few years ago and well known when I stood for
:43:09. > :43:11.There were nine days for people to object to me standing,
:43:12. > :43:15.it was well known when the dlection was held, with people who I defeated
:43:16. > :43:18.in that election were prepared to shake my hand and congratulate me
:43:19. > :43:25.Sorry, we do not have an awful lot of time but Ian McNicol is not here,
:43:26. > :43:27.his job in the wake of Jeremy Corbyn's re-electhon
:43:28. > :43:31.Could it be that someone like yourself, who has spokdn openly
:43:32. > :43:35.about wanting to oust the L`bour MP in Hove, is not the right pdrson
:43:36. > :43:37.is not the right person to chair the constituency Labour
:43:38. > :43:42.If they want to have that dhscussion with me we can have the deb`te
:43:43. > :43:47.Ian McNicol is the person who tried to stop Jeremy Corbyn being able
:43:48. > :43:51.to stand in the second leaddrship election, he is also the person
:43:52. > :43:54.who used ?500,000 of Labour Party money trying to stop,
:43:55. > :43:58.in fact, effectively stopping, hundreds of thousands of new members
:43:59. > :44:00.being able to vote in the sdcond election for Jeremy Corbyn.
:44:01. > :44:03.He does not have a good record on supporting the leader
:44:04. > :44:10.The fact is Jeremy Corbyn h`s been re-elected and Ian McNicol says
:44:11. > :44:16.Maggie Jones, you are a long serving member of the Labour Party
:44:17. > :44:20.The trouble is it will alienate a lot of Jeremy Corbyn supporters
:44:21. > :44:29.That is not going to help unity when you hear what has
:44:30. > :44:33.I think Mark's case is completely different from what is happdning
:44:34. > :44:36.in Brighton and Hove in terls of the NEC decision.
:44:37. > :44:39.That decision was made by elected members that we elected to be
:44:40. > :44:42.the Labour Party NEC, so it is not just a secret
:44:43. > :44:44.cabal, it has been made by our representatives.
:44:45. > :44:47.They decided the Labour Party that used to be
:44:48. > :44:49.in the three constituencies should return to that arrangement
:44:50. > :44:53.and I think that makes perfdct sense because we know
:44:54. > :44:56.there were far too many people to turn up to that meeting.
:44:57. > :44:58.We were mostly victim of our own success, we've got
:44:59. > :45:02.so many members now cannot really organise them as one unit.
:45:03. > :45:04.But what about giving voice to people like Mark,
:45:05. > :45:08.and there are 15 people who have been suspended as well,
:45:09. > :45:11.who do feel as though the top of the party is trying to ptrge left
:45:12. > :45:20.I have not seen the letter and I think Mark's accusations
:45:21. > :45:22.against Ian McNicol are really unfair because he is a partx
:45:23. > :45:25.servant, he is not here to defend himself.
:45:26. > :45:28.His job is to carry out the rules of the NEC and ultimately
:45:29. > :45:33.He is there to carry out thd rules, including rules of membershhp.
:45:34. > :45:37.Mark has already admitted he is a supporter of the Alliance
:45:38. > :45:47.of Workers' Liberty, which is a Trotskyist entryhst group
:45:48. > :45:49.and his membership, he said it was well known,
:45:50. > :45:53.he certainly did not make it well known when I was present at the AGM.
:45:54. > :45:55.I think it is important those people who are entryists
:45:56. > :45:59.That has been a rule of the Labour Party for years
:46:00. > :46:01.and applied consistently, nothing particular about Mark.
:46:02. > :46:05.You will appeal this decision, I understand?
:46:06. > :46:13.There is no rule in the Labour Party but not supporting another
:46:14. > :46:15.organisation that is socialhst politics, there has always been
:46:16. > :46:18.socialists in the Labour Party and it is not a party.
:46:19. > :46:20.There are organisations that are prescribed
:46:21. > :46:23.What they are prescribed by name and those prescriptions werd voted
:46:24. > :46:30.I think by sleight of hand ` rule that to people who stand
:46:31. > :46:33.against the party in elections is being used against socialists.
:46:34. > :46:35.I have never stood against the Labour Party,
:46:36. > :46:39.Again, I think if the gener`l secretary was here they might
:46:40. > :46:41.have a different argument but you have had a chance
:46:42. > :46:53.They are hiding in plain sight, that his hope campaigners described
:46:54. > :46:58.modern-day slaves, men and women trafficked into the country and
:46:59. > :47:02.living here exploited by bosses are unable to leave. The number of
:47:03. > :47:07.police raids were carried ott on suspected brothels in Kent `nd
:47:08. > :47:13.Sussex. In one reader for e`stern European woman were arrested.
:47:14. > :47:18.Joining us is someone from ligrant health UK goose provides support for
:47:19. > :47:23.those victims. What is modern-day slavery and where is it?
:47:24. > :47:29.The simplest way to explain it is where someone is exploited `gainst
:47:30. > :47:32.their will. What trafficking someone is transported as well. It hs
:47:33. > :47:38.unfortunate across the whold country. The Home Office have a
:47:39. > :47:42.prediction there is between ten and 13,000 victims of slavery in the UK
:47:43. > :47:48.at any one time and that estimation is out of date and being reworked.
:47:49. > :47:55.Sexual exploitation, people associate with human trafficking in
:47:56. > :48:00.this region but agricultural workers are also something you are
:48:01. > :48:05.increasingly concerned about? Yeah. The slavery that is more well known
:48:06. > :48:09.and what you would think of is sexual exploitation of labotr
:48:10. > :48:14.exploitation in terms of thd number of cases reported outstrips that,
:48:15. > :48:23.just slightly. In terms of agricultural cases, there h`s been
:48:24. > :48:29.more awareness and may be spotted more. Sort it is just the
:48:30. > :48:34.authorities are getting better at finding it? When the Nation`l
:48:35. > :48:38.referral mechanism started to allow the NGOs and Government to work
:48:39. > :48:45.together there was only a couple of hundred victims last year wd had
:48:46. > :48:50.3500. It is not a 40% incre`se in crime, it is just awareness. We have
:48:51. > :48:53.been trying to raise awarendss of the issue so people are mord aware
:48:54. > :48:59.of so those cases can be reported because often that is how wd get the
:49:00. > :49:02.victims support they need and how the police Bill the intelligence in
:49:03. > :49:09.order to tackle this. What could the authorities do better
:49:10. > :49:13.to expose a less? If there `re up to 13,000 in the UK what are wd not
:49:14. > :49:20.doing well? It is a bit past and the police
:49:21. > :49:26.forces across the country -, big task, it is joining them up to work
:49:27. > :49:30.together. Some police forces last year had not referred anyond whilst
:49:31. > :49:35.in west Yorkshire the referred almost 70 people. And that hs the
:49:36. > :49:40.referral mechanism we talked about earlier. You would like to see more
:49:41. > :49:44.and more prosecutions as well? The in order to have prosecutions unit
:49:45. > :49:49.to give good support to victims and they need to trust the authorities
:49:50. > :49:53.which is very difficult. Often they come from abroad where they have not
:49:54. > :50:00.had good experiences to trust anyone and therefore offering them services
:50:01. > :50:01.allowing them to rehabilitate are very important. The research shows
:50:02. > :50:06.they would then be more willing to they would then be more willing to
:50:07. > :50:13.work with the police in orddr to gather the needed intelligence.
:50:14. > :50:17.The anti-slavery commissiondr has just published his first report and
:50:18. > :50:22.says not enough is being done and in Kent last year the police rdferred
:50:23. > :50:26.87 potential victims through this referral mechanism but none of those
:50:27. > :50:30.resulted in a charge or sumloned to court.
:50:31. > :50:36.This Government has introduced the modern slavery act which will help
:50:37. > :50:40.police and the long-term to suit steps and I am pleased that Kent
:50:41. > :50:48.Police have been this week proactive in trying to track down brothels and
:50:49. > :50:58.arrests have been made, 11 `rrests arrests have been made, 11 `rrests
:50:59. > :51:03.made but no convictions. No convictions were made. It is a
:51:04. > :51:08.difficult task and I am concerned to hear what the James is saying about
:51:09. > :51:14.the labour exploitation in the agricultural sector because I have
:51:15. > :51:18.got a rural constituency and I am fairly confident the farmers in my
:51:19. > :51:23.idiot of responsible farmers who would not be exporting the labour
:51:24. > :51:28.force is what I am sure it goes on. -- the farmers in my area are
:51:29. > :51:31.responsible farmers. The other accusation made is the authorities
:51:32. > :51:35.do not properly understand the relationship between the people
:51:36. > :51:39.exploited and the criminal gangs controlling them. As James `lluded
:51:40. > :51:48.to it is a tricky one and wd're not getting it right. That is one of the
:51:49. > :51:52.things James's organisation is doing a good job about, highlighthng to
:51:53. > :51:57.people this is taking place. We have got to make people understand modern
:51:58. > :52:02.slavery is happening, it cotld be happening next door, it could be
:52:03. > :52:08.happening in the shops they go to, it could be happening in thd
:52:09. > :52:12.community. Like letting people know it is happening so they can look out
:52:13. > :52:13.for it and report it is one step forward.
:52:14. > :52:18.You cannot accuse the Government of You cannot accuse the Government of
:52:19. > :52:22.not doing anything. To May introduced the modern slavery act
:52:23. > :52:26.last year and appointed the Commissioner. -- Theresa Max
:52:27. > :52:32.introduced it. It is an isste of resources. Police numbers h`ve been
:52:33. > :52:36.cut and the appeal in all sorts of directions and we need more police
:52:37. > :52:41.forces with special knowledge of this area and more convictions. I
:52:42. > :52:47.think unless we have the police force that are trained to rdcognise
:52:48. > :52:52.the symptoms and act then one week a year is not enough to sort the
:52:53. > :52:56.problem. That is a good point and I cannot disagree that we need to
:52:57. > :53:02.better trim our police officers to recognise this sort of slavdry -
:53:03. > :53:08.better train or police officers I am delighted Kent the forefront and
:53:09. > :53:12.I am confident they will continue to do that. Thank you for coming into
:53:13. > :53:14.the studio, James. It is a political decision
:53:15. > :53:16.the south-east has been Widespread expectations
:53:17. > :53:22.were that Theresa May would announce week the outcome of
:53:23. > :53:26.the Government's deliberations but we may have to
:53:27. > :53:28.wait some more It seems to be the case
:53:29. > :53:32.of the never But the Government may be one step
:53:33. > :53:35.closer to a conclusion on the issue of airport
:53:36. > :53:37.expansion in This month this Government
:53:38. > :53:43.will take a decision on the appropriate site
:53:44. > :53:44.for expanded This is a subject debated,
:53:45. > :53:50.discussed, speculated on for 40 Last summer the three year dnquiry
:53:51. > :53:59.into airport capacity backed a new third runway at Heathrow,
:54:00. > :54:08.but did not rule out The timetable for the Government's
:54:09. > :54:11.decision looks like this. Next week a Cabinet
:54:12. > :54:13.committee will meet to Ministers will be free for ` short
:54:14. > :54:18.time to restate their views and objections, which should avoid
:54:19. > :54:19.cabinet resignations. Then there will be
:54:20. > :54:21.a public consultation before, in winter 2017-18,
:54:22. > :54:24.Parliament vote on a final plan It could then take
:54:25. > :54:26.a decade before any years says this village would be one
:54:27. > :54:38.of the worst affected by nohse and pollution if a second runwax
:54:39. > :54:41.is given the go-ahead at Gatwick. We have been waiting for cl`rity
:54:42. > :54:52.for the best part of four years now and we were
:54:53. > :54:54.hoping after delaying would have a clear indication
:54:55. > :54:58.of where we stand this week. The impact a second runway
:54:59. > :55:01.would have, obviously there will be a huge increase,
:55:02. > :55:09.all the planes that are currently flying over that direction,
:55:10. > :55:11.they would be about two or 300 metres
:55:12. > :55:14.in that direction so instead of skirting
:55:15. > :55:17.edge of the village they wotld be coming right over it.
:55:18. > :55:22.Their concerns have the support of a group of
:55:23. > :55:24.conservative south-east MPs who also oppose a second runway at G`twick.
:55:25. > :55:27.We're talking about ?100 billion of economic advantage for the Heathrow
:55:28. > :55:32.You would be economically illiterate to go for
:55:33. > :55:35.any other option and quite `part from the fact that we have `
:55:36. > :55:37.situation where there will be five different
:55:38. > :55:41.go by rail from central London to Heathrow
:55:42. > :55:42.while the Gatwick option is
:55:43. > :55:45.on a line currently frankly that is disaster
:55:46. > :55:51.proposition to suggest we should be putting the extra runway at Gatwick
:55:52. > :55:53.Building a second runway at Gatwick has divided
:55:54. > :56:01.East Sussex County Council says it has
:56:02. > :56:04.pushed the airport to reducd the impact of noise
:56:05. > :56:10.My immediate reaction is an element of
:56:11. > :56:18.I think in the business intdrests of our own community, let
:56:19. > :56:21.alone the whole nation, we need to be getting on and making
:56:22. > :56:26.I would strongly recommend to the Prime Minister
:56:27. > :56:34.that, one, she makes a very firm decision and immediately and
:56:35. > :56:36.secondly she commissions both airports for expansion.
:56:37. > :56:42.But one business Association from Crawley
:56:43. > :56:44.believes the extended process could be good news for thosd
:56:45. > :56:49.We can go back to Government and say why we support the runway at Gatwick
:56:50. > :56:56.and build the case and make sure the Government and the MPs who are
:56:57. > :56:59.going to ultimately vote on it understand why this next runway
:57:00. > :57:01.A spokesman for the airport said, Gatwick
:57:02. > :57:03.expansion is the best option for the country
:57:04. > :57:06.It would give the same economic boost as
:57:07. > :57:08.Heathrow but with less financial and environmental cost and Gatwick
:57:09. > :57:11.expansion can be delivered in just ten years.
:57:12. > :57:14.The decision on where to
:57:15. > :57:16.increase airport capacity is still hanging in the air.
:57:17. > :57:18.There is still some way to travel before the
:57:19. > :57:20.residents and businesses of the South East know
:57:21. > :57:27.Gordon, it is almost not about which way
:57:28. > :57:29.the decision will go, it is the
:57:30. > :57:30.delays that are frustrating people, especially those
:57:31. > :57:34.They have got to wait another year now.
:57:35. > :57:36.Yes, it is, and I can understand the frustration but
:57:37. > :57:44.you must look at the political realities of it, this decishon will
:57:45. > :57:47.upset a lot of people and no Government will rush into that.
:57:48. > :57:49.This decision has not taken a year or two
:57:50. > :57:52.It feels like no Government wants to take that
:57:53. > :58:03.You are right. It'll be a brave Government but it will be m`de. An
:58:04. > :58:07.announcement is going to be made next week and parliament in one
:58:08. > :58:13.year's time and MPs will vote on it and there will not be... We have to
:58:14. > :58:20.make a decision and whatever I decide will be somewhat hypocritical
:58:21. > :58:25.double because I campaigned fiercely against an airport at Thames estuary
:58:26. > :58:31.and for me to seek either or is slightly hypocritical. What about
:58:32. > :58:35.expanding both? It is going to be quicker and cheaper and delhver a
:58:36. > :58:40.vote of economic prosperity for generations. I think we havd to be
:58:41. > :58:44.very careful. Setting aside the business case the actual qu`rter of
:58:45. > :58:51.the air and the whole environmental issue of noise affects hundreds of
:58:52. > :58:56.thousands of people. It would affect far fewer if Gatwick was allowed to
:58:57. > :59:01.build a second runway. The decision must be a business case and I think
:59:02. > :59:07.you have two measure that and I think the business case is on the
:59:08. > :59:10.site of Heathrow but it has to be done on the basis of those
:59:11. > :59:15.environmental and noise predictions are in place and I do not bdlieve
:59:16. > :59:23.they are. I cannot see the point in delaying another year. Somebody
:59:24. > :59:30.somewhere should make the ddcision. Heathrow, Gatwick or both? Both
:59:31. > :59:36.Thank you very much. Now at 60 seconds.
:59:37. > :59:39.Head teachers in West Sussex went to Downing Street to deliver
:59:40. > :59:41.a petition about what they say it a serious funding crisis
:59:42. > :59:44.They say they need ?20 millhon in emergency funding.
:59:45. > :59:48.We will have to continue to look at our staffing ratios and lay have
:59:49. > :59:52.to look at reducing the number of hours we are open for.
:59:53. > :59:55.Police are investigating an allegation and aid
:59:56. > :59:59.to Conservative MP Craig Mackinlay raped a woman in Parliament.
:00:00. > :00:02.Sam Armstrong was arrested and bailed last week.
:00:03. > :00:07.Women in Medway are calling on the local MP to resign
:00:08. > :00:12.from the Waspi all-party parliamentary group.
:00:13. > :00:15.The campaign is known as thd Woman Against State Pension Inequ`lity say
:00:16. > :00:18.Kelly Tolhurst should step down after voting against a motion
:00:19. > :00:20.to support the campaign in a council meeting.
:00:21. > :00:22.And the former Liberal Democrat MP for Lewes, Norman Baker,
:00:23. > :00:29.It is called Throwing Meet @t Tigers and criticises David Cameron for his
:00:30. > :00:51.Soaring Meet At The Tigers. As someone who campaigned for Brexit do
:00:52. > :00:55.you feel like one of the Tigers was throwing the meet at? To thd Mac I
:00:56. > :00:59.find it odd people objected to him find it odd people objected to him
:01:00. > :01:04.calling a referendum. I heard someone say we should not h`ve one
:01:05. > :01:08.because people do not understand. How very patronising. And I thought
:01:09. > :01:12.we would have a Brexit free programme! Thank you to both my
:01:13. > :01:17.guests. Join us again next week Goodbye.
:01:18. > :01:26.go ahead with this policy, I know. And now back to Andrew.
:01:27. > :01:28.So, Brexit, airports, Calais and the chances
:01:29. > :01:50.With what Rory Stewart was saying there, it is clear that Islamic
:01:51. > :01:57.State is losing territory in Iraq now, and could come under pressure
:01:58. > :02:05.in Syria as well. It used to control a whole swathe of the coast of
:02:06. > :02:09.Libya, and is now down to a small area of Sirte in Libya. But
:02:10. > :02:13.curiously, it could make them more dangerous here if they are being
:02:14. > :02:19.driven out of the Maghreb and the Levant, they could be more dangerous
:02:20. > :02:24.here. Discuss. That was a very interesting admission from a
:02:25. > :02:30.government minister, of all people, and a well-informed one. Chasing
:02:31. > :02:34.Isis around the Middle East is about... Like chasing Al-Qaeda
:02:35. > :02:44.around Afghanistan and Pakistan You smash them somewhere, and they pop
:02:45. > :02:51.up somewhere else. He is right to warn that these guys will go
:02:52. > :03:00.somewhere. And it may well be, in Sirte, for example, across the magic
:03:01. > :03:04.oration -- across the Mediterranean into Italy. A lot of the foreign
:03:05. > :03:12.fighters in Mosul have already gone, we heard, which raises the question,
:03:13. > :03:15.to where? I think it is quite right for government ministers to warn
:03:16. > :03:21.that it might have repercussions here. We have been involved in this,
:03:22. > :03:26.with full public consent, as far as we can tell. If it doesn't happen,
:03:27. > :03:31.if there are horrors and outrages here and in the rest of Europe,
:03:32. > :03:35.that's fine. If it does happen, at least the government is prepared. We
:03:36. > :03:47.knew surprised about how categorical Nia Griffith was? She was
:03:48. > :03:52.categorical about support for the Allied action in Iraq, and
:03:53. > :03:58.categorical about Russia. So much so that perhaps written should take
:03:59. > :04:03.tougher sanctions on its own, even if it can't get the Europeans to
:04:04. > :04:08.fall in line. I found that interesting. I was surprised by
:04:09. > :04:12.that. Tom may be right that Rory said more than perhaps he was
:04:13. > :04:17.intending, but I thought that some of what she said sounded politically
:04:18. > :04:21.imprudent in the current context of the Labour Party. I'm not sure she
:04:22. > :04:27.cleared those lines with the Labour office. I'm not sure she and Jeremy
:04:28. > :04:31.are in the same place about it. I'm not sure there is that much
:04:32. > :04:34.leadership. People at the moment get out there and say what they think
:04:35. > :04:41.it's right for the party. She sounded dead right to me. Whether it
:04:42. > :04:48.is ill-advised or not, people should answer... I want to move on, because
:04:49. > :04:52.Brexit never goes away. This week we saw Hilary Benn, former Shadow
:04:53. > :04:56.Foreign Secretary. He is going to be the chair of the select committee in
:04:57. > :05:00.the Commons which will monitor the Department for Brexit. All sorts of
:05:01. > :05:01.people will be coming to give testimony and so one. Let's hear
:05:02. > :05:04.what he told Andrew Marr. I think it will be very important
:05:05. > :05:07.for the government to indicate that if it is not possible within the two
:05:08. > :05:10.years provided for by Article 5 to negotiate both our withdrawal
:05:11. > :05:13.agreement and a new trading relationship, market access,
:05:14. > :05:14.including for services, 80% of our economy, million jobs,
:05:15. > :05:17.in financial services, that it should tell the House
:05:18. > :05:19.of Commons that it will seek a transitional arrangement
:05:20. > :05:32.with the European Union. If the deal is not done at the end
:05:33. > :05:38.of the two-year Article 50 process, would the government go for an
:05:39. > :05:43.interim agreement, or would it fall back on WTO, World Trade
:05:44. > :05:46.Organisation, Rawls? My understanding is the article 15
:05:47. > :05:50.negotiation doesn't specifically include what Britain's future
:05:51. > :05:55.trading relationship with the EU would be. It is perfectly possible
:05:56. > :06:00.that Article 50 could be triggered, and after two years we don't have a
:06:01. > :06:12.trade deal, but the trade deal negotiations are ongoing when we are
:06:13. > :06:15.outside the EU. But the trade deal negotiations are the most important
:06:16. > :06:17.thing. If Article 50 doesn't cover it, what is it about? Absolutely
:06:18. > :06:22.essential. The trade deal with Canada has taken nine years, and now
:06:23. > :06:32.it looks like it is fading, because of the Walloons. Just one small part
:06:33. > :06:36.of the country. If you cannot do a free-trade deal with Canada, a
:06:37. > :06:40.progressive, social Democratic Canada, who can the EU do a trade
:06:41. > :06:45.deal with? You would think it would be easy with us, because we have all
:06:46. > :06:49.of the level playing field agreements in place. You would hope
:06:50. > :06:54.it would be easier, but it may not be, because in the end, it will
:06:55. > :07:04.hinge on the single market and if we are in or out. If we are in, can we
:07:05. > :07:07.have a small break on immigration? It looks like not. What is
:07:08. > :07:11.interesting about the opinion polls is, in the last two opinion polls
:07:12. > :07:15.there was a significant change in public opinion, where people are now
:07:16. > :07:19.saying they think that actually trade, the economy, the single
:07:20. > :07:24.market is more important than immigration. If it is really true,
:07:25. > :07:28.as the observer is reporting today, that banks are on the move, and in a
:07:29. > :07:34.year's time there could be a significant collapse in the income
:07:35. > :07:46.we get from finance, the income that the Treasury gets, then public
:07:47. > :07:48.opinion might change. They may say, we don't want more immigration, but
:07:49. > :07:54.this isn't a price worth paying Everything tends to be seen through
:07:55. > :07:59.the Brexit lens at the moment. Things are not always as they seem.
:08:00. > :08:04.The Canadian- EU free trade agreement was about increasing free
:08:05. > :08:07.trade between the EU and Canada and therefore subject to the
:08:08. > :08:13.ratification of all members. Any deal we do will not give us the same
:08:14. > :08:17.access we have at the moment. The question is, how much will it be
:08:18. > :08:22.diminished? It may not be subject to the same ratification process.
:08:23. > :08:28.Absolutely right. Another unbelievably technical point that we
:08:29. > :08:34.still don't know is, if we can get this free-trade deal with the EU at
:08:35. > :08:41.the same time as our Brexit talks and deal, the divorce deal as well
:08:42. > :08:50.as the remarriage deal, then one gets signed off by QM V. The trade
:08:51. > :08:56.deal may still need all 28, all 27, including the people from the
:08:57. > :09:00.Walloons. And the MEPs. The majority of parliament. This is exactly why
:09:01. > :09:04.Theresa May would like the transitional deal to push this one
:09:05. > :09:09.deeper. I was surprised to hear Hilary Benn pushing this line this
:09:10. > :09:13.morning. The remainers have been all over the place. They wanted a vote
:09:14. > :09:18.after Article 50 had been triggered about the deal. Then they wanted a
:09:19. > :09:25.vote before Article 50. Now they are talking about a vote before article
:09:26. > :09:30.Article 50 is triggered about a trade deal. They need to make up
:09:31. > :09:34.their minds about what it is they are pushing for, and what their best
:09:35. > :09:41.hope of obstructing Brexit is, and stick with it. Something else we see
:09:42. > :09:45.through the Brexit lens, which isn't always helpful, is Calais. The
:09:46. > :09:50.French bulldozers will move in tomorrow. We will see some pretty
:09:51. > :09:54.disturbing scenes on the TV. We will see some horrible scenes. The
:09:55. > :10:00.government has handled this very badly. Having passed an amendment in
:10:01. > :10:04.April saying we would take something like 3000 children, a lot of those
:10:05. > :10:08.children have disappeared. Save the Children, one of the charities
:10:09. > :10:16.there, are very worried that people traffickers have been in there, and
:10:17. > :10:18.a lot of those children have vanished. We haven't sent social
:10:19. > :10:25.workers in. No preparations have been made what ever. You are raising
:10:26. > :10:30.an interesting point. We don't know how many we are meant to be taking.
:10:31. > :10:38.The huge argument has arisen over what the age is of some of the ones
:10:39. > :10:43.coming in. Is this another problem for the Home Office? To some extent.
:10:44. > :10:46.Didn't Theresa May 's too well to survive six weeks of this? Amber
:10:47. > :10:51.Rudd has been there for three months. It is clear that the Home
:10:52. > :10:59.Office didn't prepare for this. They didn't prepare for the age
:11:00. > :11:03.verification or when it will go It needs to be an perfect. We don't
:11:04. > :11:09.know how many we will take, because the Home Office will not say. I want
:11:10. > :11:14.to talk about airport capacity, but I won't, because I don't think we
:11:15. > :11:17.have anything to say about it until the statement on Tuesday from
:11:18. > :11:22.Transport Minister Grayling. When you look at the polls and see the
:11:23. > :11:26.decision on airport runway expansion being kicked into the long grass for
:11:27. > :11:31.a year, are we heading for an early election next year or not? I think
:11:32. > :11:36.Theresa May will do everything she can to avoid it. If there is an
:11:37. > :11:42.election before 2020, it is bound to be about Europe, and that is a much
:11:43. > :11:47.harder case for her to win than just a question of who is the best Prime
:11:48. > :11:51.Minister. She will have a tough time, because it will be a general
:11:52. > :11:57.election about in or out of the single market. Half of her party
:11:58. > :12:02.will peel away. How do she conduct a general election when the likes of
:12:03. > :12:07.Anna Soubry will not stand on the same platform? It will be difficult.
:12:08. > :12:15.But she may reach such a stalemate that she just calls one. No general
:12:16. > :12:18.election next year because it will split the Tory party. There will be
:12:19. > :12:23.won in 2019 when she cannot get Brexit through the House of Commons.
:12:24. > :12:28.You really can have too much of a good thing. I just want to show a
:12:29. > :12:33.little clip of the former Shadow Chancellor, Ed Balls, from Strictly
:12:34. > :12:40.last night. Let's just watch this. There he is.
:12:41. > :12:47.Where is the hand? That is the worrying bit! We will no longer be
:12:48. > :12:55.saying that Ed Balls is a safe pair of hands! Can we agree on that?
:12:56. > :13:04.Remarkable that he was once the man most feared by David Cameron! Labour
:13:05. > :13:11.leader 2021. He has hit popular culture in the way that many few
:13:12. > :13:15.politicians do. Charm, gusto, bravery, no worries about being
:13:16. > :13:22.embarrassed. All the things that you don't like about being a politician.
:13:23. > :13:24.We have run out of time. You can get it on social media.
:13:25. > :13:27.Jo Coburn will be back with the Daily Politics tomorrow
:13:28. > :13:30.And I'll be back here next Sunday at the same time.
:13:31. > :14:04.Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.
:14:05. > :14:07.Everyone's living these amazing lives,