:00:36. > :00:39.Morning folks - welcome to the Sunday Politics.
:00:40. > :00:42.Theresa May says she'll deliver on Brexit but does that mean leaving
:00:43. > :00:47.the EU's Single Market and the Customs Union?
:00:48. > :00:49.Tory MPs campaign for a commitment from the Prime
:00:50. > :01:02.The Chancellor pledges just over a billion pounds worth of spending
:01:03. > :01:08.on Britain's roads but is that it or will there be
:01:09. > :01:15.Their last leader was just 18 days in the job.
:01:16. > :01:18.And in the South East: As more post offices move
:01:19. > :01:20.into newsagents and even chtrches, we ask, are you still getting
:01:21. > :01:28.in London: Is the battle for Richmond Park based on the skies? Or
:01:29. > :01:36.is it about a bigger conflict in Europe?
:01:37. > :01:40.And with me - as always - and, no, these three aren't doing
:01:41. > :01:44.the Mannequin challenge - it's our dynamic, demonstrative
:01:45. > :01:46.dazzling political panel - Helen Lewis, Isabel Oakeshott
:01:47. > :01:49.and Tom Newton Dunn they'll also be tweeting throughout the programme.
:01:50. > :01:55.First this morning - Theresa May has said
:01:56. > :01:58."Brexit means Brexit" - but can the Prime Minister -
:01:59. > :02:00.who was on the Remain side of argument during the referendum
:02:01. > :02:08.Well, Leave-supporting Tory MPs are re-launching
:02:09. > :02:16.the "European Research Group" this morning to keep Mrs May's feet
:02:17. > :02:25.Are you worried that you cannot trust Theresa May until payment to
:02:26. > :02:31.deliver full Brexit was Magellan like I totally trust Theresa May,
:02:32. > :02:35.100% behind her. She has displayed a massive amount of commitment to
:02:36. > :02:38.making a success of Brexit for the country.
:02:39. > :02:42.We don't know that yet, because nothing has happened. Why, then
:02:43. > :02:49.have you formed a pressure group? We were fed up with the negativity
:02:50. > :02:53.coming out around Brexit. I feel positive about the opportunities we
:02:54. > :02:56.face, and we are a group to provide suggestions. Who do you have in mind
:02:57. > :03:03.when you talk about negativity the Chancellor? No, from the Lib Dems,
:03:04. > :03:10.for example, from Labour MPs. This is a pressure group for leaving
:03:11. > :03:15.membership of the single market and customs union, correct? That is what
:03:16. > :03:18.we are proposing. It has a purpose other than just to combat
:03:19. > :03:22.negativity. When it comes to membership of the single market and
:03:23. > :03:27.the customs union, can you tell us what Government policy is towards
:03:28. > :03:31.both or either? Rightly, the Government hasn't made the position
:03:32. > :03:36.clear, and I think that is the right approach, because we don't want to
:03:37. > :03:43.review our negotiating hand. What we're saying... I'm not asking what
:03:44. > :03:45.you are saying. Can you tell us what Government policy is towards
:03:46. > :03:50.membership of these institutions? The Government wants to make sure
:03:51. > :03:54.British businesses have the right to trade with EU partners, to forge new
:03:55. > :04:02.trade deals with the rest of the world. We hope to Reza may speak at
:04:03. > :04:05.Mansion house this week. -- we had Theresa May speak at Mansion house
:04:06. > :04:11.this week. She has been clear, saying it was not a binary choice.
:04:12. > :04:14.And she's right. Let's run that tape, because I want to pick up on
:04:15. > :04:19.what she did say. This is what she had to say about the customs union
:04:20. > :04:24.at Prime Minister's Question Time. On the whole question of the customs
:04:25. > :04:27.union, trading relationships that we have with the European Union and
:04:28. > :04:32.other parts of the world once we have left the European Union, we are
:04:33. > :04:42.preparing carefully for the formal negotiations. We are preparing
:04:43. > :04:45.carefully for the formal negotiations. We want to ensure we
:04:46. > :04:51.have the best possible trading deal with the EU once we have left. Do
:04:52. > :04:55.you know what she means when she says being in the customs union is
:04:56. > :04:59.not a binary choice? I think she's right when she says that. At the
:05:00. > :05:03.moment, and you know this, as long as we are in the customs union, we
:05:04. > :05:07.cannot set our own tariffs or rules, cannot have a free trade agreement
:05:08. > :05:13.with the US or China. We need to leave a customs union to do that.
:05:14. > :05:17.Binary means either you are in or you are out, self which is it? We
:05:18. > :05:21.still want to trade with the EU and I think we can have a free trade
:05:22. > :05:28.agreement with the EU. That is a separate matter, and it has to do
:05:29. > :05:32.with the single market. What about the customs union? We need to leave
:05:33. > :05:37.the customs union. We do it and properly. That is how to get the
:05:38. > :05:40.most out of this opportunity. Summit is a binary choice? The Prime
:05:41. > :05:45.Minister is right when she says it's not a binary choice. Both can't be
:05:46. > :05:53.right. We can leave the customs union, get their benefits, and have
:05:54. > :05:58.a free trade agreement with zero tariffs with the EU. So it is a
:05:59. > :06:01.binary choice an either be stale really. Yellow like I am saying the
:06:02. > :06:08.Prime Minister is right when she says it is not a binary choice. -- I
:06:09. > :06:16.am saying the Prime Minister is right. We need clarity. Youth had
:06:17. > :06:21.said -- you have said it is a binary choice. We need to leave the
:06:22. > :06:24.constraints of the customs union. It pushes up prices. The EU is not
:06:25. > :06:28.securing the right trade deals, and if we want to make the most of it,
:06:29. > :06:33.we need to get out there and get some deals going. Do you accept that
:06:34. > :06:38.if we remain in the customs union, we cannot do our own free-trade
:06:39. > :06:54.deals? Yellow right 100%. That is why we have to leave. -- 100%. Do
:06:55. > :06:58.you accept that if we leave the customs union but stay with
:06:59. > :07:01.substantial access, I don't say membership, but substantial access
:07:02. > :07:05.to the single market, that goods going from this country to the
:07:06. > :07:10.single market because we're no longer in the union will be subject
:07:11. > :07:18.to complicated rules of origin regulations, which could cost
:07:19. > :07:22.business ?13 billion a year? I would like to see a free-trade agreement
:07:23. > :07:26.between the UK and the EU. Look at the Canadian deal. I give you that,
:07:27. > :07:31.but if we're not in the customs union, things that we bring in on
:07:32. > :07:36.our own tariffs once we've left we can't just export again willy-nilly
:07:37. > :07:39.to the EU. They will demand to see rules of origin. Norway has to do
:07:40. > :07:45.that at the moment and it is highly complicated expensive. I think if we
:07:46. > :07:48.agree a particular arrangement as part of this agreement with the EU,
:07:49. > :07:55.we can reach an agreement on that which sets a lower standard, which
:07:56. > :07:59.sets a different level of tariffs, which protects some of our
:08:00. > :08:04.industries. Let's suppose we have pretty much free trade with the EU
:08:05. > :08:08.but we are out of the customs union, and let's suppose that the European
:08:09. > :08:17.Union has a 20% tariff on Japanese whisky and we decide to have a %
:08:18. > :08:21.tariff - what then happens to the whisky that comes into Britain and
:08:22. > :08:26.goes on to the EU? The EU will not let that in. That will be part of
:08:27. > :08:33.the negotiation. I think there is a huge benefit for external operators.
:08:34. > :08:37.Every bottle of Japanese whisky they will have to work out the rules
:08:38. > :08:42.of origin. There have been studies that show there is a potential for
:08:43. > :08:48.50% increase in global product if we leave. We're losing the benefits of
:08:49. > :08:49.free trade. I understand, I am asking for your particular view
:08:50. > :08:58.Thank you for that. Is it not surprising Mr Hannan could
:08:59. > :09:03.not bring himself to say we would leave the customs union? It is
:09:04. > :09:08.messy. The reason there is this new group of Tory MPs signing up to a
:09:09. > :09:13.campaign to make sure we get a genuine Brexit is because there is
:09:14. > :09:19.this vacuum. It is being filled with all sorts of briefing from the other
:09:20. > :09:23.side. There is a real risk in the minds of Brexit supporting MPs that
:09:24. > :09:26.the remaining side are going to try to hijack the process, not only
:09:27. > :09:32.through the Supreme Court action, which I think most Brexit MPs seem
:09:33. > :09:37.to accept the appeal will fail, but further down the line, through
:09:38. > :09:41.amendments to the great repeal bill. This is a pressure group to try to
:09:42. > :09:45.hold the Prime Minister to account. There is plenty of pressure on the
:09:46. > :09:50.Prime Minister effectively to stay in the single market and the customs
:09:51. > :09:56.union, and if you do both of these things, de facto, you have stayed in
:09:57. > :09:59.the EU. She is in a difficult position because there is no good
:10:00. > :10:06.faith assumption about what Theresa May wants because she was a
:10:07. > :10:09.Remainer. There is all this talk about a transitional arrangement,
:10:10. > :10:15.but she can't sell that as someone who voted to remain. The way Isabel
:10:16. > :10:19.has characterised it is interesting. There is a betrayal narrative.
:10:20. > :10:23.Everyone is looking to say that she has betrayed the true Brexit. Since
:10:24. > :10:29.the Government cannot give a clear indication of what it once in terms
:10:30. > :10:33.of the customs union, which sets external tariffs, or the single
:10:34. > :10:36.market, which is the free movement of people, capital, goods and
:10:37. > :10:44.services, others are filling this vacuum. Right. The reasons they
:10:45. > :10:47.can't do this are, first, they don't know if they can get it or not. We
:10:48. > :10:54.saw this with the renegotiation the last Prime Minister. What are they
:10:55. > :11:04.hoping to get? The world on a stick, to get cake and eat it. You go into
:11:05. > :11:08.a negotiation saying, let's see what we can get in total. Are they going
:11:09. > :11:12.to ask the membership of the single market? Yellow I think they will ask
:11:13. > :11:25.for a free trade agreement involving everything. You can demand what you
:11:26. > :11:31.want. The question is, do they stand a cat's chance in hell of getting
:11:32. > :11:36.it? They don't know. Welcome back. We will be back, believe me. It is
:11:37. > :11:42.150 day since we found out the UK had voted to leave the EU, but as we
:11:43. > :11:46.have heard, remain and leave campaigners continue to battle about
:11:47. > :11:53.what type of relationship we should have with the EU after exit.
:11:54. > :11:55.Leave campaigners say that leaving the EU
:11:56. > :11:56.also means quitting the
:11:57. > :11:59.Single Market, the internal European trading bloc that includes free
:12:00. > :12:01.movement of goods, services, capital and people.
:12:02. > :12:02.They point to evidence that leading Leave supporting
:12:03. > :12:04.politicians ruled out staying in the Single Market during
:12:05. > :12:07.Andrea Leadsom, for example, said it would almost
:12:08. > :12:16.certainly be the case that the UK would come out of the Single Market.
:12:17. > :12:21.When asked for a yes or no on whether the UK should stay
:12:22. > :12:24."No, we should be outside the Single Market."
:12:25. > :12:27.And Boris Johnson agreed with his erstwhile ally, saying, "Michael
:12:28. > :12:29.Gove was absolutely right to say the UK
:12:30. > :12:40.They've released a video of clips of Leave campaigners speaking before
:12:41. > :12:43.the referendum apparently saying that the UK should stay in the
:12:44. > :12:46.Nigel Farage, for example, once said that on leaving
:12:47. > :12:49.the EU we'll find ourselves part of the European economic area
:12:50. > :12:51.Owen Paterson, the former Environment Secretary,
:12:52. > :12:58.once made the startling statement that only a madman would actually
:12:59. > :13:03.And Matthew Elliott, the Vote Leave chief, said
:13:04. > :13:06.that the Norwegian option would be initially attractive for some
:13:07. > :13:10.But do these quotes create an accurate picture of what
:13:11. > :13:17.To cast some light on where these quotes came from we're
:13:18. > :13:19.joined by James McGrory, director of Open Britain
:13:20. > :13:33.Welcome to the Sunday Politics. . Your video has statements from leave
:13:34. > :13:36.campaigners hinting they want to stay in the single market. How many
:13:37. > :13:44.were made during the referendum campaign? I don't know. Not one was
:13:45. > :13:48.made during the referendum campaign. Indeed, only two of the 12
:13:49. > :13:52.statements were recorded after Royal assent had been given to the
:13:53. > :13:57.referendum. Only one was made this year before the referendum.
:13:58. > :14:00.Throughout the campaign am a leave campaigners lauded the Norwegian
:14:01. > :14:06.model. Norway are in the single market but not in the EU. They went
:14:07. > :14:09.out of their way not to be pinned down on a specific trading
:14:10. > :14:13.arrangement they want to see in the future with Europe, when the
:14:14. > :14:18.Treasury model the different models it was the EEA or a free-trade
:14:19. > :14:21.agreement. I understand. Does it not undermine your case that none of the
:14:22. > :14:26.12 statements on your video were made during the campaign itself
:14:27. > :14:31.when people were giving really serious thought to such matters The
:14:32. > :14:34.Leave campaign weren't giving serious thought to such matters
:14:35. > :14:40.They did not set out the future trading model they wanted to see.
:14:41. > :14:43.But you cannot produce a single video with somebody saying we should
:14:44. > :14:49.stay in the single market during the campaign. Daniel Hanna had talked
:14:50. > :14:54.about the Norwegian model as a future option. One comment from
:14:55. > :14:57.Nigel Farage dates back to 2009 when we didn't even know if we would
:14:58. > :15:02.have a referendum or not. Does it not stretch credibility to go back
:15:03. > :15:06.to the time when Gordon Brown was Prime Minister? The overall point
:15:07. > :15:12.stands. It is not supposed to be an exhaustive list of the options.
:15:13. > :15:17.Daniel Hannan, described as the intellectual godfather of the Leave
:15:18. > :15:20.movement is saying that no one is talking about threatening our place
:15:21. > :15:24.in the signal market. I think it's legitimate to point out the Leave
:15:25. > :15:28.campaign never came forward with a credible argument. We have
:15:29. > :15:31.highlighted some of the quotes you picked out from leave campaigners
:15:32. > :15:37.over time. Do you think you have fully encapsulated their arguments
:15:38. > :15:43.accurately? I don't think in a 2nd video you can talk about the full
:15:44. > :15:48.thing. -- a 90-2nd video. Some of them want to seek a free-trade
:15:49. > :15:56.agreement, some to default on to World Trade Organisation tariffs.
:15:57. > :15:58.There is a range of opinion in the Leave campaign. Let's listen to the
:15:59. > :15:59.clip you used on Owen Paterson first.
:16:00. > :16:06.Only a madman would actually leave the market.
:16:07. > :16:11.Only a madman would actually leave the market.
:16:12. > :16:12.It's not the EU which is
:16:13. > :16:15.a political organisation delivering the prosperity and buying our goods.
:16:16. > :16:19.It's the market, it's the members of the market and we'll carry on
:16:20. > :16:21.I mean, are we really suggesting that the
:16:22. > :16:24.economy in the world is not going to come to come
:16:25. > :16:26.to a satisfactory trading arrangement with the EU?
:16:27. > :16:28.Are we going to be like Sudan and North
:16:29. > :16:32.It is ludicrous this idea that we are going to leap off a
:16:33. > :16:46.What he said when he said only a madman would leave Europe, was that
:16:47. > :16:50.we would continue to trade, we would continue to have access. Any country
:16:51. > :16:53.in the world can have access. What the Leave campaign suggested is our
:16:54. > :16:57.trade would continue uninterrupted, they are still at it today, David
:16:58. > :17:01.Davis used the phrase, uninterrupted, from the dispatch box
:17:02. > :17:05.recently. You misrepresented him by saying only a madman would leave the
:17:06. > :17:09.Single Market and stopped it there, because he goes onto say that of
:17:10. > :17:10.course we want Leave in the sense of continuing to have access. I don't
:17:11. > :17:29.think he was about axis, he is talking
:17:30. > :17:31.about membership. He doesn't use the word membership at all. He talks
:17:32. > :17:34.about we are going to carry on trading with them, we will not leap
:17:35. > :17:37.off, we will carry on trading. Anybody can trade with the EU, it's
:17:38. > :17:39.the terms on which you trade that is important and leave campaigners and
:17:40. > :17:42.Patterson is an example of this saying we can trade as we do now,
:17:43. > :17:44.the government saying we can trade without bureaucratic impediments and
:17:45. > :17:46.tariff free. The viewers will make up their mind. Let's listen to the
:17:47. > :17:48.views of Matthew Elliott, the Chief Executive of Vote Leave.
:17:49. > :17:51.When it comes to the Norwegian option, the EEA option, I think that
:17:52. > :17:53.it might be initially attractive for some business people.
:17:54. > :17:57.So you then cut him off there but this is what he went on to say in
:17:58. > :18:01.the same clip, let's listen to that. When it comes to the Norwegian
:18:02. > :18:04.option, the EEA option, I think that it might be initially attractive
:18:05. > :18:06.for some business people. But then again for voters
:18:07. > :18:09.who are increasingly concerned about migration in the EU,
:18:10. > :18:12.they will be very concerned that it allows free movement
:18:13. > :18:24.of people to continue. Again, you have misrepresented him.
:18:25. > :18:26.He said the Norwegian model has attractions but there are real
:18:27. > :18:31.problems if it involves free movement of people, which it does.
:18:32. > :18:34.But you cut that bit out. I challenge anyone to represent them
:18:35. > :18:38.accurately because they took such a range of opinions. I don't know what
:18:39. > :18:42.we are supposed to do. You are misrepresenting them. He is saying
:18:43. > :18:46.the Norwegian option is attractive to business, I understand why. It
:18:47. > :18:53.might not be attractive for voters. But then he said if it allowed free
:18:54. > :18:57.movement of people it could be an issue. You took that out. You are
:18:58. > :19:00.saying this is a definitive position. I'm suggesting you are
:19:01. > :19:03.distorting it. This is what you had Mr Farage say.
:19:04. > :19:05.On D+1 we'll find ourselves part of the European economic area
:19:06. > :19:13.This is what he then went on to say in that same clip that you didn t
:19:14. > :19:14.run. There is absolutely
:19:15. > :19:16.nothing to fear in terms of trade from leaving
:19:17. > :19:17.the on D+1 we'll find ourselves part
:19:18. > :19:21.of the European Economic Area and we should use our
:19:22. > :19:30.membership of the EEA as a holding position from which
:19:31. > :19:33.we can negotiate as the European Union's biggest export
:19:34. > :19:36.market in the world, as good a deal, my goodness me,
:19:37. > :19:46.if Switzerland can have one we So there again, he says not that we
:19:47. > :19:51.should stay in the Single Market as a member, but that we stay in the EA
:19:52. > :20:01.as a transition until we negotiate something. -- EEA. This whole clip
:20:02. > :20:05.is online, how would you get away with this distortion? It is not a
:20:06. > :20:08.distortion, the whole point is to point out they do not have a
:20:09. > :20:11.definitive position, he is arguing for membership of the Single Market,
:20:12. > :20:16.for a transitional period. For the transition. How long does that go
:20:17. > :20:19.on, what does he want to then achieve? Not very quickly but he
:20:20. > :20:23.does not say we should stay members of the Single Market and you didn't
:20:24. > :20:26.let people see what he went on to say, you gave the impression he
:20:27. > :20:30.wanted to stay in the one it. It would not be a video then, it would
:20:31. > :20:34.be a seven-week long lecture. They took so many positions, and the idea
:20:35. > :20:37.now that they were clear with people that we should definitely leave the
:20:38. > :20:41.Single Market I think is fictitious. You are trying to make out they all
:20:42. > :20:46.had one position which was to remain members of the one it. You see the
:20:47. > :20:50.full clips that is not what they are saying. We are trying to point out
:20:51. > :20:53.there is no mandate to leave the Single Market. The idea the Leave
:20:54. > :20:57.campaign spoke with unanimity and clarity of purpose and throughout
:20:58. > :21:01.the whole campaign said we will definitely leave the Single Market
:21:02. > :21:05.is not true. That is the whole point of the media. We showed in the
:21:06. > :21:09.montage in the video just before we came on, we said that then Prime
:21:10. > :21:12.Minister, the then Chancellor, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, being
:21:13. > :21:15.categorical that if you vote to leave the EU, you vote to leave
:21:16. > :21:19.membership of the Single Market What bit of that didn't you
:21:20. > :21:22.understand? Under duress they occasionally said they wanted to
:21:23. > :21:28.leave. Some of them wanted to leave the Single Market. All of the other
:21:29. > :21:33.promises they made, whether ?35 million for the NHS, whether a VAT
:21:34. > :21:36.cut on fuel, points-based system. You do not have a single quote of
:21:37. > :21:40.any of these members saying they want to be a member. Daniel Hannan
:21:41. > :21:45.has said consistently that Norway are a part of the Single Market You
:21:46. > :21:47.spend the referendum campaign criticising for Rim misrepresenting
:21:48. > :21:50.and misrepresenting and lying and many thought they did. Having seen
:21:51. > :21:54.this many will conclude that you are the biggest liars. I think it is
:21:55. > :21:57.perfectly reasonable to point out that the Leave campaign did not have
:21:58. > :22:01.a clear position on our future trading relationship with Europe.
:22:02. > :22:04.That is all this video does. It doesn't say we definitely have to
:22:05. > :22:09.stay in the Single Market, it just says they do have a mandate to drag
:22:10. > :22:11.us out of our biggest trading partner.
:22:12. > :22:13.Now people have seen the full quotes in context our viewers will make up
:22:14. > :22:15.their mind. Thank you. Now - voting closes next week
:22:16. > :22:18.in the the Ukip leadership contest. The second Ukip leadership contest
:22:19. > :22:20.this year after the party's first female leader - Diane James -
:22:21. > :22:23.stood down from the role Since then the party's lurched from
:22:24. > :22:26.farce to fiasco. It's a world gripped by uncertainty,
:22:27. > :22:42.split into factions. Yes, 2, because they're
:22:43. > :22:51.having their second Watch as the alpha male,
:22:52. > :22:59.the Ukip leader at Nigel Watch as the alpha male,
:23:00. > :23:01.the Ukip leader Nigel Farage, hands power to the new alpha
:23:02. > :23:04.female Diane James. The European Parliament
:23:05. > :23:18.in Strasbourg, October. Another leading light and possible
:23:19. > :23:21.future leader, the MEP Steven Wolfe,
:23:22. > :23:23.has been laid low after an alleged tussle with a colleague
:23:24. > :23:26.during a meeting. A few days later he is
:23:27. > :23:28.out of hospital and I will be withdrawing my
:23:29. > :23:32.application to become I'm actually withdrawing
:23:33. > :23:35.myself from Ukip. You're resigning from the party
:23:36. > :23:41.I'm resigning with immediate effect. And this week a leaked document
:23:42. > :23:45.suggested the party improperly spent EU funds on political
:23:46. > :23:50.campaigning in the UK. Another headache for whoever takes
:23:51. > :23:56.over the leadership of the pack One contender is Suzanne Evans,
:23:57. > :23:59.a former Tory councillor and was briefly suspended for
:24:00. > :24:08.disloyalty. Also standing, Paul Nuttall,
:24:09. > :24:11.an MEP from Liverpool who has been by Farage's side
:24:12. > :24:17.as his deputy for six years. There's another big beast
:24:18. > :24:19.in the Ukip leadership contest, and I'm told
:24:20. > :24:22.that today he can be spotted He's John Rees-Evans,
:24:23. > :24:27.a businessman and adventurer who is offering members the chance
:24:28. > :24:30.to propose policies via a website We've got really dedicated
:24:31. > :24:44.passionate supporters who feel like they're not really
:24:45. > :24:46.being listened to and are not even Typically what happens
:24:47. > :24:49.is they just basically sit there until six months before
:24:50. > :24:52.a General Election when they are contacted and asked to go out
:24:53. > :24:55.and leaflet and canvas. Even at branch level people feel
:24:56. > :24:57.there is not an adequate flow of communication
:24:58. > :24:59.up-and-down the party. Are you not going to take part in
:25:00. > :25:08.any hustings? He left a hustings saying
:25:09. > :25:11.the contest was an establishment coronation and has
:25:12. > :25:14.made colourful comments in the past. He's in favour of the death penalty
:25:15. > :25:16.for crimes like paedophilia. I think there is a clear
:25:17. > :25:18.will amongst the offences should be dealt with
:25:19. > :25:22.decisively. But again, on an issue like that,
:25:23. > :25:24.that is something that Our members are not
:25:25. > :25:30.going to agree with me on everything and I don't believe that
:25:31. > :25:32.I would have any authority to have the say and determine
:25:33. > :25:34.the future What method would you use
:25:35. > :25:38.for the death penalty? Again, that is something that could
:25:39. > :25:40.be determined by suggestions made So you'd have like an online
:25:41. > :25:45.poll about whether you use the electric chair,
:25:46. > :25:50.or lethal injection? For example, arguments would be made
:25:51. > :25:53.in favour of This is such a small aspect
:25:54. > :25:57.of what I'm standing for. Essentially, in mainstream media
:25:58. > :25:59.they try to by focusing on pretty irrelevant
:26:00. > :26:05.details. This is one vote that
:26:06. > :26:07.the membership would have. What I'm actually trying to do
:26:08. > :26:11.in this party is to revolutionise the democratic
:26:12. > :26:14.process in the UK, and that's really what your viewers should
:26:15. > :26:18.be concentrating on. With him at the helm he reckons Ukip
:26:19. > :26:20.would win at Meanwhile, in New York,
:26:21. > :26:28.on a visit to Trump Tower, Nigel Farage admired the plumage
:26:29. > :26:37.of the President-elect, a man he has described as
:26:38. > :26:39.a silverback gorilla, a friendship that's been condemned by some
:26:40. > :26:42.in this leadership contest. There are also elections
:26:43. > :26:44.to the party's National Executive Committee, a body
:26:45. > :26:47.that's been roundly criticised by And we're joined now by two
:26:48. > :27:02.of the candidates in the Ukip leadership election -
:27:03. > :27:12.Suzanne Evans and Paul Nuttall. We are going to kick off by giving
:27:13. > :27:15.each of them 30 seconds to lay out their case as to why they would be
:27:16. > :27:18.the less leader starting with Suzanne Evans.
:27:19. > :27:21.Ukip is at its best when it is scaring the political establishment,
:27:22. > :27:25.forcing it to address those problems it would rather ignore. But it
:27:26. > :27:29.really change people's lives for the better and fast, we need to win
:27:30. > :27:33.seats and elections right across the country. To win at the ballot box we
:27:34. > :27:52.need to attract more women, more ethnic
:27:53. > :27:55.minorities, and more of those Labour voters who no longer recognise their
:27:56. > :27:58.party. I know how to do that. Ukip under my
:27:59. > :28:00.leadership will be the same page about it, common-sense, radical
:28:01. > :28:02.party it has always been, just even more successful. Thank you, Suzanne
:28:03. > :28:05.Evans, Paul Nuttall. I'm standing on a platform of unity and experience.
:28:06. > :28:07.I believe the party must come together if it is to survive and
:28:08. > :28:10.prosper. I believe I'm the best candidate to ensure that happens, I
:28:11. > :28:13.am not part of any faction in the party, and beyond that I have done
:28:14. > :28:15.every single job within the party, whether that is as head of policy,
:28:16. > :28:18.whether that is Party Chairman, deputy leader for Nigel for the past
:28:19. > :28:20.six years. I believe Ukip has great opportunities in Labour
:28:21. > :28:24.constituencies where we can move in and become the Patriot invoice of
:28:25. > :28:27.working people, and beyond that we have to ensure the government's feet
:28:28. > :28:34.are held to the fire on Brexit and we get real Brexit, not a
:28:35. > :28:38.mealy-mouthed version. How will you get a grip on this? People have to
:28:39. > :28:42.realise that the cause is bigger than any personality, we have to get
:28:43. > :28:45.together in a room and sort out not just a spokespeople role but roles
:28:46. > :28:50.within the organisation, Party Chairman, party secretary, and
:28:51. > :28:54.whatnot. But as I say, Ukip must unite, we are on 13% in the opinion
:28:55. > :28:59.polls, the future is bright, there are open goals but Ukip must be on
:29:00. > :29:02.the pitch to score them. He says he's the only one that can get a
:29:03. > :29:06.grip on this party. I disagree, I have a huge amount of experience in
:29:07. > :29:09.the party as well and also a background that I think means I can
:29:10. > :29:19.help bring people together. I have always said nothing breeds unity
:29:20. > :29:22.faster than success and under my leadership we will be successful.
:29:23. > :29:24.There is concern about the future of our National Executive Committee
:29:25. > :29:27.going forward. Mr Farage called it the lowest grade of people I have
:29:28. > :29:30.ever met, do you agree? I think he must have been having a bad day I
:29:31. > :29:33.think we need to make it more accountable to the membership, more
:29:34. > :29:38.open, more democratic. What would you do with the National Executive
:29:39. > :29:41.Committee? I have been calling for the National Executive Committee to
:29:42. > :29:44.be elected reasonably since 201 giving the members better
:29:45. > :29:48.communication lines and make it far more transparent. Would you have a
:29:49. > :29:53.clear out of the office? I wouldn't, I think the chairman of the party,
:29:54. > :29:57.Paul Upton, the interim chairman, is doing a good job and the only person
:29:58. > :30:00.who has come out of the summer with his reputation enhanced. Let me show
:30:01. > :30:07.you a picture we have all seen of your current leader, Mr Farage, with
:30:08. > :30:10.President-elect Donald Trump. Paul Nuttall, you criticise Mr Farage's
:30:11. > :30:15.decision to appear at rallies during the American election and called Mr
:30:16. > :30:20.Trump appalling. Do you stick by that? I wouldn't have voted for him.
:30:21. > :30:23.I made it clear. Do you still think he's appalling now that he is
:30:24. > :30:29.President-elect? Some of the things he said were appalling during the
:30:30. > :30:31.campaign that he said. But he would be good for Britain, trade,
:30:32. > :30:35.pro-Brexit and he is an Anglo file and the first thing he did was put
:30:36. > :30:41.the bust of Winston Churchill back in the Oval Office. You, Suzanne
:30:42. > :30:45.Evans, called Mr Trump one of the weakest candidates the US has had. I
:30:46. > :30:49.said the same about Hillary Clinton. They cannot both be the weakest The
:30:50. > :30:53.better candidate on either side would have beaten the other, that is
:30:54. > :30:58.quite clear. Do you stand by that, or are you glad that your leader Mr
:30:59. > :31:03.Farage has strong ties to him? I am, why wouldn't I be? For Ukip to have
:31:04. > :31:07.that direct connection, it can be only good for a party. Were you not
:31:08. > :31:10.out of step and Mr Farage is in step because it looks like your vote is
:31:11. > :31:16.according to polling I have seemed like Mr Trump and his policies? Let
:31:17. > :31:19.me finish. If I am the leader of Ukip I will not be involving myself
:31:20. > :31:23.in foreign elections, I will because in trading here in this country
:31:24. > :31:24.ensuring we get Ukip people elected to council chambers and get seats in
:31:25. > :31:34.2020. The other thing your leader has in
:31:35. > :31:41.common with Mr Trump is that he rather admires Vladimir Putin. Do
:31:42. > :31:48.you? I don't. If you look at Putin's record, he has invaded Ukraine and
:31:49. > :31:52.Georgia. I am absolutely not a fan. I think that Vladimir Putin is
:31:53. > :31:57.pretty much a nasty man, but beyond that, I believe that in the Middle
:31:58. > :32:03.East, he is generally getting it right in many areas. We need to
:32:04. > :32:08.bring the conflict... Bombing civilians? We need to bring the
:32:09. > :32:12.conflict to an end as fast as possible. The British and American
:32:13. > :32:19.line before Donald Trump is to support rebels, including one is
:32:20. > :32:23.affiliated to Al-Qaeda, to the Taliban. We need to clear these
:32:24. > :32:31.people out and ensure that Syria becomes stable. This controversial
:32:32. > :32:34.breaking point poster from during the referendum campaign. Mr Farage
:32:35. > :32:39.unveiled it, there he is standing in front of it. You can bend it - do
:32:40. > :32:43.you still? Yes, I think it was the wrong poster at the wrong time. I
:32:44. > :32:48.was involved with the vote Leave campaign as well as Ukip's campaign,
:32:49. > :32:51.and I felt strongly that those concerned about immigration were
:32:52. > :32:55.already going to vote to leave because it was a fundamental truth
:32:56. > :32:57.that unless we left the European Union we couldn't control
:32:58. > :33:06.immigration. I thought it was about approaching those soft wavering
:33:07. > :33:10.voters who weren't sure. I don't think I said it was racist, but it
:33:11. > :33:14.was about sovereignty and trade and so forth. That was where we needed
:33:15. > :33:19.to go. I was concerned it might put off some of those wavering voters.
:33:20. > :33:25.People may well say, it was part of the winning campaign. It was Ukip
:33:26. > :33:32.shock and all, which is what you stand for and what makes you
:33:33. > :33:35.different. I said I would know how that I said I would not have gone
:33:36. > :33:38.for that person and I thought it was wrong to do it just a week out from
:33:39. > :33:45.the referendum. However, I believe it released legitimate concerns
:33:46. > :33:53.with a deluge of people making their way from the Middle East and Africa
:33:54. > :33:56.into the European continent. Where is the low hanging fruit for you,
:33:57. > :34:01.particularly in England? Is it Labour or Conservative voters? I
:34:02. > :34:07.want to hang onto the Conservative voters we have got but I think the
:34:08. > :34:11.low hanging fruit is Labour. Jeremy Corbyn won't sing the national
:34:12. > :34:15.anthem, Emily Thornbury despises the English flag. Diane Abbott thinks
:34:16. > :34:19.anyone talking about immigration is racist. Not to mention John
:34:20. > :34:23.McDonnell's feelings about the IRA. Labour has ceased to be a party for
:34:24. > :34:28.working people and I think Ukip is absolutely going to be that party.
:34:29. > :34:34.It is clear, I absolutely concur with everything Suzanne has said. I
:34:35. > :34:37.first voiced this back in 2008 that I believe Ukip has a fantastic
:34:38. > :34:41.opportunity in working-class communities, and everyone laughed at
:34:42. > :34:44.me. It is clear now that we resonate with working people, and you have
:34:45. > :34:51.seen that in the Brexit result. Would you bring back the death
:34:52. > :34:55.penalty? It wouldn't be Ukip policy. Absolutely not. Would you give more
:34:56. > :34:58.money to the NHS and how would your fanatic? You like it is important to
:34:59. > :35:08.fund it adequately, and it hasn t been to date. We promised in our
:35:09. > :35:13.manifesto that we would give more money. Where does the money come
:35:14. > :35:18.from? It is about tackling health tourism. I think the NHS is being
:35:19. > :35:23.taken for a ride at the moment. That may be right, but where does the
:35:24. > :35:27.money come from? It is about scaling back management in the NHS, because
:35:28. > :35:32.that has burgeoned beyond control. They are spending far more money on
:35:33. > :35:37.management. Where would you save money? We need to look at HS two,
:35:38. > :35:42.foreign aid. Now we have Brexit and we will be saving on the membership
:35:43. > :35:45.fee. We need to cut back on management, as Suzanne says. It
:35:46. > :35:52.cannot be right that 51% of people who work for the NHS in England are
:35:53. > :35:58.not clinically qualified. The NHS needs money now - where would you
:35:59. > :36:04.get it? From HS two. That is capital spending spread over a long period.
:36:05. > :36:08.Where will you get the money now? OK, another one. We spent ?25
:36:09. > :36:13.million every day on foreign aid to countries who sometimes are richer
:36:14. > :36:17.than ourselves. Through the Barnett formula. You would take money away
:36:18. > :36:33.from Scotland? Yes, I think they get far too much. PG tips or Earl Grey?
:36:34. > :36:41.Colegrave. PG tips. Strictly come dancing or X Factor? Neither.
:36:42. > :36:46.Strictly. I would love to be on it one day. There you go. Thank you
:36:47. > :36:50.It's just gone 11:35am, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:36:51. > :36:53.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
:36:54. > :37:53.Coming up here in 20 minutes, the Week Ahead.
:37:54. > :37:55.I'm Julia George and this is the Sunday Politics
:37:56. > :37:58.Coming up later: Planning a walk after Sunday lunch?
:37:59. > :38:01.We find out what can be dond if your local footpaths aren't
:38:02. > :38:05.Joining me in the studio today are Tom Tugendhat, Conservative MP
:38:06. > :38:06.for Tonbridge and Malling and Liberal Democrat MEP
:38:07. > :38:08.for the south east, Catherine Bearder.
:38:09. > :38:13.Do you regularly use your local post office?
:38:14. > :38:15.Does it matter to you where it's located?
:38:16. > :38:18.If the counters are in a newsagent, or even a church is that just
:38:19. > :38:21.as good as an old-fashioned stand-alone post office?
:38:22. > :38:23.We'll hear shortly from Tom Tugenhadt about why he's
:38:24. > :38:24.fighting to stop Tonbridge post office moving into
:38:25. > :38:28.But first Sara Neville has been to Tom's constituency
:38:29. > :38:30.and to Whistable to find out what campaigners and customdrs want.
:38:31. > :38:33.The Post Office has been a cornerstone of the communhty
:38:34. > :38:36.Not just somewhere to buy stamps but a local harbour,
:38:37. > :38:39.Not just somewhere to buy stamps but a local hub,
:38:40. > :38:40.a treasured provider of many essential services.
:38:41. > :38:42.Branches like this one in H`rlow are slowly disappearing
:38:43. > :38:44.from our high streets, replaced with franchisees,
:38:45. > :38:46.often in the newsagent, supermarket or petrol station.
:38:47. > :38:48.Because the Post Office is changing, going through an aggressive
:38:49. > :38:50.cost-cutting and modernisathon programme, that many
:38:51. > :38:52.in the south-east is costing jobs and eroding vital local services.
:38:53. > :38:56.Since splitting from the Roxal Mail in 2012, the ailing post office has
:38:57. > :38:58.been propped up by nearly ?2 billion from the government.
:38:59. > :39:01.In Kent and Sussex, there are now around 400 branches, but 97.5%
:39:02. > :39:05.Leaving just ten in the hands of the Post Office, known
:39:06. > :39:14.The growing town of Tonbridge has one of them.
:39:15. > :39:16.The Post Office wants to move this ultramodern stand-alone branch
:39:17. > :39:18.from here 100 metres around the corner to hear,
:39:19. > :39:22.The Post Office says it will retain its Crown status,
:39:23. > :39:24.but almost 1500 people have signed a petition opposing the plan.
:39:25. > :39:28.You go in the post office on Monday on pension day and you
:39:29. > :39:32.If they moved it to a retail outlet around the corner, it
:39:33. > :39:38.It's not going to be any good for us.
:39:39. > :39:41.Having their own premises is beneficial, but it is a sign
:39:42. > :39:43.Whitstable, another town, another campaign.
:39:44. > :39:46.This church, tucked away in a backstreet, now houses
:39:47. > :39:58.after months of seeing people queueing outside
:39:59. > :40:03.But the tranquillity of this new location belies the furx
:40:04. > :40:05.of local people who say thehr town needs and accessible
:40:06. > :40:11.This is a temporary solution put forward by the communitx.
:40:12. > :40:14.What we need is a proper post office, which we had
:40:15. > :40:17.until Post Office Limited used the closure of the old building
:40:18. > :40:25.We demonstrated against that, we occupied the building,
:40:26. > :40:27.we shamed the company into providing a temporary portakabin servhce.
:40:28. > :40:30.But franchisees are not secure and our town needs
:40:31. > :40:43.Unions representing post office workers blame
:40:44. > :40:49.It is a public institution which is much cherished,
:40:50. > :40:52.with great heritage, and it is being run into thd ground.
:40:53. > :40:54.It has a business plan which quite frankly will never
:40:55. > :40:58.It has been shrinking now for over 28 years.
:40:59. > :41:06.It's half the size that it used to be.
:41:07. > :41:08.And it's the Crown Offices that they are now franchising,
:41:09. > :41:13.This week, impassioned MPs let to discuss the issue.
:41:14. > :41:18.The minister responsible sahd services have to be viable.
:41:19. > :41:20.We cannot keep these Crown Post Offices open,
:41:21. > :41:23.losing money, and stick to our commitment to keep
:41:24. > :41:30.and semirural areas where very often it's the only
:41:31. > :41:34.And I think really, for somd of these crimes that are closing,
:41:35. > :41:37.for customers to be walking a very short distance away,
:41:38. > :41:39.sometimes into a more convenient location to a WH Smith,
:41:40. > :41:43.is a very small price to pax, to keep this network operathng.
:41:44. > :41:45.Back on the high street, post offices are preparing
:41:46. > :41:57.Meanwhile, a public consult`tion on Post Office finance has begun.
:41:58. > :41:59.But where will you be going to post your parcels?
:42:00. > :42:03.Joining me now from Westminster is Mark Davis from the Post office.
:42:04. > :42:06.Joining me now from Westminster is Mark Davis from the Post Office.
:42:07. > :42:11.I want to start with the local issues in Tonbridge and then move
:42:12. > :42:15.What do you say to the people in Tonbridge who are worried
:42:16. > :42:17.that this move of their dedhcated modern post office to WHSmith
:42:18. > :42:23.will make things more difficult for them?
:42:24. > :42:28.We always understand when communities are concerned about the
:42:29. > :42:35.changes we make to the servhce because the post office service is
:42:36. > :42:40.very important. People get very conscious when were making changes
:42:41. > :42:45.and sometimes concern. In Tonbridge, we are proposing to move thd brand
:42:46. > :42:50.is 100 metres to WH Smith. That model has worked well in thd past.
:42:51. > :42:57.We have had a partnership for around ten years. They host branchds across
:42:58. > :43:01.the country. Just to correct some of the things in your report, the idea
:43:02. > :43:10.that franchising is something new for the post office is a fallacy. It
:43:11. > :43:16.has been the model for decades. In Tunbridge, we will absolutely be
:43:17. > :43:21.moving the same level of service and support to the new WHSmith with an
:43:22. > :43:28.improved environment, with hmproved facilities, with all the sale
:43:29. > :43:31.services and level of staff. You have a very modern purpose-built
:43:32. > :43:36.building. You can't have designed that very well if putting the post
:43:37. > :43:44.office into the back of a shop is better than that? We take m`ny
:43:45. > :43:46.considerations into account. Demographic, the local area, a huge
:43:47. > :43:52.amount of work goes into pl`nning these things. How can we provide the
:43:53. > :43:59.best possible services for our customers going forward? In the most
:44:00. > :44:07.efficient and effective way? At the same time, reducing the burden we
:44:08. > :44:12.have on the taxpayer. We were losing ?120 million of public monex four
:44:13. > :44:17.years ago. We have reduced that down to ?26 million. We will be breaking
:44:18. > :44:21.even within a very short period of time. The business is not ahling.
:44:22. > :44:25.The same number of staff and The same number of staff and
:44:26. > :44:30.full-time equivalent posts, the opening hours will be at le`st as
:44:31. > :44:35.good and there will be seathng for elderly and disabled customdrs?
:44:36. > :44:40.Absolutely. The manager of the Crown network was meeting the loc`l MP on
:44:41. > :44:46.Friday to reassure him about some of the points raised in the
:44:47. > :44:50.consultation. Let's turn to which the ball. The post office there is
:44:51. > :44:57.currently housed in the church. Is there any news on a permanent site?
:44:58. > :45:02.That is a town which must h`ve a post office service. It will have
:45:03. > :45:11.one in the future. Absolutely. Particular factors led to the
:45:12. > :45:17.closure of the Crown branch. We had a site lined up but the ret`iler
:45:18. > :45:22.pulled out. Doesn't that illustrate the rather precarious naturd of this
:45:23. > :45:27.arrangement with shops? Of `ll of the franchise branches we h`ve had,
:45:28. > :45:33.there is not a single example of a franchise branch closing. 4000 post
:45:34. > :45:36.office branches are open today on a Sunday. This idea that somehow the
:45:37. > :45:40.post office is in crisis fr`nkly post office is in crisis fr`nkly
:45:41. > :45:46.doesn't bear any kind of serious scrutiny. We are at the heart of
:45:47. > :45:50.every single community. We `re the cornerstone. We have been for 3 0
:45:51. > :45:54.years and we will continue to be sought for many more years hnto the
:45:55. > :46:01.future, thanks to the work we have done over the last four years to
:46:02. > :46:12.transform the network. 7000 branches across the UK. We have extended
:46:13. > :46:18.opening hours. In our region, the extended opening hours is the
:46:19. > :46:25.equivalent of opening anothdr 1 0 branches. We're reinventing
:46:26. > :46:29.ourselves to deliver a great service for our users. The government has
:46:30. > :46:35.just published details on how the social value of the post office
:46:36. > :46:40.network is considered. It is estimated at something betwden four
:46:41. > :46:45.are increasingly performing that are increasingly performing that
:46:46. > :46:48.role as a retail hub in the cornerstone of communities, postal
:46:49. > :46:56.services, banking services `nd retail all under the same roof.
:46:57. > :47:01.Still touching every single community and at the heart of it.
:47:02. > :47:07.Thank you. Reassurance about the level of service when the Ttnbridge
:47:08. > :47:11.post office moves into WHSmhth. Your own minister doesn't really see it
:47:12. > :47:13.as the biggest of issues, btt you describe it on your website as a
:47:14. > :47:22.real blow to the town. Why? It is. A real blow to the town. Why? It is. A
:47:23. > :47:32.lot of people who use the post office or from people who are ageing
:47:33. > :47:36.or have mobility issues. In the current location, it is right next
:47:37. > :47:45.to a car park and some disabled parking spaces. Moving at 100 yards
:47:46. > :47:50.doesn't sound like a lot to you or me because we are capable of walking
:47:51. > :47:51.100 yards, but for a lot of people with mobility issues, that hs
:47:52. > :47:54.actually quite a challenge. You re actually quite a challenge. You re
:47:55. > :48:01.asking people to either get help or asking people to either get help or
:48:02. > :48:07.to book something in order to have that support. Know that's not right.
:48:08. > :48:14.You see local people are ag`inst the plans from the post office? What is
:48:15. > :48:21.your evidence? In the last ten days, I have collected 1500 signatures.
:48:22. > :48:25.This is the fastest and most efficient response I have h`d to any
:48:26. > :48:35.petition. I have been stopphng people in the street. 99% h`ve been
:48:36. > :48:39.against it. I looked up your question posted. It is a little
:48:40. > :48:44.disingenuous. Do you agree that the post office should remain open? Do
:48:45. > :48:49.you have any comments to make about the proposed closure? If I was asked
:48:50. > :48:53.that question, I wouldn't rdalise it was just moving 100 yards around the
:48:54. > :49:00.corner. You have made it sotnd like it is going to disappear. This comes
:49:01. > :49:06.straight under an article that explains exactly what is happening.
:49:07. > :49:17.I was explaining to people what was happening. It's not a stand,alone
:49:18. > :49:21.question. Ione raise it. It is absolutely accurate the closing
:49:22. > :49:27.stand-alone post offices. That is true. Nobody is disputing that. We
:49:28. > :49:31.are talking about accessibility It really is quite something when you
:49:32. > :49:34.have just invested several thousand pounds of doing up our post`l
:49:35. > :49:39.office, as they have done in Tom Bridge, in order to make it more
:49:40. > :49:45.accessible and easier for pdople to use, do then throw that awax and
:49:46. > :49:53.move it to WHSmith. Do you `dmire this campaign? Essentially he is
:49:54. > :49:58.taking on his own government. Absolutely. Anyone who stands up for
:49:59. > :50:03.post offices is fighting for something that Liberal Democrats
:50:04. > :50:11.have been fighting for years. The keyword is service. What thdy want
:50:12. > :50:18.here in Tunbridge Wells and in other parts is a service they can access
:50:19. > :50:25.easily. Putting it inside a WHSmith is going to reduce that service He
:50:26. > :50:36.said the service level would remain the same. It's too late. Thdre will
:50:37. > :50:43.be queues and other people want to get to books and magazines. An
:50:44. > :50:47.increasing number of people in mobility scooters. It's a dhfferent
:50:48. > :50:50.model four times than it is in a village. Sometimes it is thd
:50:51. > :50:56.shop open. But in times where you shop open. But in times where you
:50:57. > :51:04.have far heavier footfall into a post office you need to keep that
:51:05. > :51:09.space. Let's all remember there is serious state funding of thd post
:51:10. > :51:14.office. In Westminster, you talked about the symbolic importance of the
:51:15. > :51:20.post office. With ?2 billion given in state aid to the post office
:51:21. > :51:27.between 2011 and 2018, can we afford the symbolism? The symbolisl unites
:51:28. > :51:31.the country, but this is about commerce. The internet generation
:51:32. > :51:38.has not replaced the post office, it has made it more useful. A lot of
:51:39. > :51:43.people have their post delivered once they have ordered them online.
:51:44. > :51:50.The post office is essential to that. When you return items, you
:51:51. > :51:54.have to go into the post office A town like Tom Bridge which hs
:51:55. > :52:00.growing so much just now, wd all know the number of homes gohng in,
:52:01. > :52:06.the footfall will increase. The government says it will havd funded
:52:07. > :52:11.?2 billion. State aid has to be approved by the European Colmission.
:52:12. > :52:17.After Brexit, the government will be able to spend whatever it lhkes Do
:52:18. > :52:25.you think they will get mord or less money? There will probably be less
:52:26. > :52:30.money to go all around. We will still be funding the Europe`n
:52:31. > :52:33.agency. But it will be tougher. When we were in coalition governlent
:52:34. > :52:37.Vince Cable sold off some of the Vince Cable sold off some of the
:52:38. > :52:42.post office which allowed them to raise some of their own caphtal as
:52:43. > :52:47.well. Government and privatd money is going to the post office and that
:52:48. > :52:52.deal was done so that they keep the post offices and keep up thd level
:52:53. > :52:57.of service. This closure of post offices right across the cotntry is
:52:58. > :53:02.not keeping that level of sdrvice up. The consultation is just
:53:03. > :53:04.causing. We will keep an eyd on this one and report back when we have a
:53:05. > :53:09.final decision. The South East has some verx
:53:10. > :53:11.fine walking country, with hundreds of miles of ptblic
:53:12. > :53:13.footpaths to enjoy. But the fun can be spoilt
:53:14. > :53:16.by obstructions and bad signage A survey just published
:53:17. > :53:19.by the Ramblers charity - and undertaken by thousands
:53:20. > :53:20.of walkers has revealed The citizen walkers revealed found
:53:21. > :53:24.more than 10,000 problems on paths in the South East The survex showed
:53:25. > :53:27.that 58% of paths were However, 6% of paths were poorly
:53:28. > :53:30.kept and difficult or impossible Lots of problems would have been
:53:31. > :53:49.around when marking, signs lissing, which means that people
:53:50. > :53:51.cannot find their way. That would've been one
:53:52. > :53:52.particular problem. Sometimes it's things like barbed
:53:53. > :54:00.wire or electric fences across a path which would h`ve
:54:01. > :54:02.caused an obstruction. There would've been a variety
:54:03. > :54:04.of different reasons around undergrowth and mud I would imagine
:54:05. > :54:06.during the winter months. So these were the types of problems
:54:07. > :54:10.that walkers were facing. Some of them would have been
:54:11. > :54:13.deliberate, most would have been would have been careless,
:54:14. > :54:16.all of it can be put right with a bit of effort and a bit
:54:17. > :54:19.of partnership working. Let's examine in a moment whose
:54:20. > :54:22.responsibility it should be to keep these footpath as good as they can
:54:23. > :54:24.be, but starting with you, you are a keen walker,
:54:25. > :54:29.what sort of condition are the footpaths in that
:54:30. > :54:32.you will like to walk? Well, the ones I have been walking
:54:33. > :54:34.recently been in very I walked with a friend from Dorking
:54:35. > :54:38.to my home near Edenbridge. And the paths were basicallx
:54:39. > :54:48.in pretty good nick. In some places, it is the county
:54:49. > :54:58.council and in some places ht's the borough, and in other places
:54:59. > :55:01.the parish and in places But if you walk areas
:55:02. > :55:10.like the Pilgrims Way, you will see there are some
:55:11. > :55:12.fantastic and beautiful parts of our country that are onlx
:55:13. > :55:15.accessible on foot and you can get it on some really beautiful
:55:16. > :55:18.and well kept footpaths. Let's pick up on whose
:55:19. > :55:20.responsibility it is to I mean, we expect local
:55:21. > :55:23.authorities in many areas But with ever diminishing btdgets,
:55:24. > :55:27.is it really fair to expect them? There is a statutory obligation
:55:28. > :55:29.to keep the footpath is well signed and clear,
:55:30. > :55:31.but actually have the financial Budgets are really under
:55:32. > :55:35.pressure at the moment. If you are juggling budgets,
:55:36. > :55:37.is it children's services, old people's services
:55:38. > :55:39.or way markers? It's very difficult
:55:40. > :55:41.to prioritise way marking. But there's a lot that
:55:42. > :55:43.the ramblers can do as well. If you are out walking and xou see
:55:44. > :55:48.something that is beginning that is beginning to break,
:55:49. > :55:51.report it then so it gets mdnded. If something is beginning to go
:55:52. > :55:56.it is easier and cheaper So it's a case of whatever
:55:57. > :56:01.you see, report it. Sometimes there are ways th`t
:56:02. > :56:02.walkers could take Sometimes if you go out with a pair
:56:03. > :56:11.of secateurs and the bramblds are coming over the path
:56:12. > :56:14.because it's not a well used one, just a judicial bit of cutthng back
:56:15. > :56:17.could save that footpath because it means people will
:56:18. > :56:22.continue to use it. And it's use it or lose
:56:23. > :56:24.it, these footpaths. We spoke to all our top tier
:56:25. > :56:32.authorities, but one exampld is they had to make savings of more
:56:33. > :56:34.than ?500,000 from this With cuts like that,
:56:35. > :56:38.it's going to be difficult for them to honour the statutory
:56:39. > :56:40.obligation, isn't it? It's tough to balance
:56:41. > :56:46.requirements in all these areas We all know it is simply not easy
:56:47. > :56:49.to make ends meet. Let's not forget, this is money
:56:50. > :56:52.taken from the taxpayer and so this is not simply free money th`t comes
:56:53. > :56:55.from Westminster, this is money that and all of the viewers' pockets
:56:56. > :57:02.in order to sustain local sdrvices. And balancing that is
:57:03. > :57:18.a really tough call. And so what we've got to do is we've
:57:19. > :57:22.got to look at how we can maintain these footpath
:57:23. > :57:24.so they are exactly as they should be, so we can enjoy the beatty
:57:25. > :57:27.of our county and our country. That will require a combination
:57:28. > :57:30.of National Trust, landowners, And now it's time for some
:57:31. > :57:36.of the other news you may h`ve missed in 60 Seconds
:57:37. > :57:37.with Yetunde Yusuf. Thanet District Council's fhnancial
:57:38. > :57:39.reserves have fallen to just over ?6.5 million,
:57:40. > :57:47.according to a report by auditors. Experts say the council was putting
:57:48. > :57:49.himself at a significant risk because its current reserves
:57:50. > :57:52.are less than a third of thd level The Thanet district leader
:57:53. > :57:56.Chris Wells said a number We mopped up in excess
:57:57. > :58:00.of ?14 million worth of foolish And in that context you would expect
:58:01. > :58:04.reserves to be a little A former nurse and Sussex MP has
:58:05. > :58:23.called for a law to have mandatory defribulators to save peopld
:58:24. > :58:25.during cardiac arrests. Maria Caulfield wants
:58:26. > :58:26.the life-saving device to come readily available
:58:27. > :58:28.in rural communities. And parents across Kent
:58:29. > :58:30.could be asked to stop Kent County Council
:58:31. > :58:32.is targeting Ashford and Canterbury which currently
:58:33. > :58:34.have an above-average It does encourage children to start
:58:35. > :58:38.smoking FTC parents do it. I do think it's a bit disrespectful
:58:39. > :58:41.that they are smoking at thd gate. Let's pick up on that idea
:58:42. > :58:43.that every community, particularly rural communithes,
:58:44. > :58:56.every school and sports Once you open it, a voice
:58:57. > :59:18.tells you what to do. I have often seen them on w`lls
:59:19. > :59:21.and thought I wouldn't know what to do with that, but if people
:59:22. > :59:24.know that the instructions are loud and clear,
:59:25. > :59:26.you would feel more confident. All the evidence shows that
:59:27. > :59:29.if you've got them there, Or is good first aid
:59:30. > :59:33.training more important? Well, as you know,
:59:34. > :59:35.they work together. And really please Maria
:59:36. > :59:37.is leading this campaign. She's a fantastic colleague
:59:38. > :59:39.and she is a great voice In fact, I have picked up on it
:59:40. > :59:45.myself and often when you ptt a later into phone box in a village,
:59:46. > :59:49.in various supermarkets we've put differently later is into
:59:50. > :59:51.the entrance, it's really important we get them as far
:59:52. > :59:53.and wide as possible. Thank you so much for
:59:54. > :59:58.coming in to today. never happened and will not happen
:59:59. > :59:59.in four years. It is subject we should spend more time on. Back to
:00:00. > :00:08.you. What will the Chancellor have to say
:00:09. > :00:12.in his first big economic statement? What impact will the forecasters say
:00:13. > :00:15.Brexit will have on the economy And who will face the Front
:00:16. > :00:18.National's Marine Le Pen in Well, the Shadow Chancellor
:00:19. > :00:32.and the Chancellor have both been touring the television
:00:33. > :00:34.studios this morning. Let's be clear, a lot of this
:00:35. > :00:40.is going to be gimmicks and press As I've said, in the
:00:41. > :00:44.pipeline, we've only seen one in five delivered
:00:45. > :00:47.to construction, that's all. So a lot of this will be a repeat
:00:48. > :00:49.of what I'm not going to reveal
:00:50. > :00:53.what I'm going to say on We don't have unlimited
:00:54. > :00:58.capacity, as one might imagine from listening
:00:59. > :01:01.to John McDonnell, to borrow hundreds of billions of pounds more
:01:02. > :01:05.for discretionary spending. That simply doesn't
:01:06. > :01:09.exist if we're going to retain this country's hard-won
:01:10. > :01:11.credibility in the financial markets if we are going to remain
:01:12. > :01:28.an attractive place for business to We didn't learn very much, Helen,
:01:29. > :01:31.but the papers were briefed this morning that there will be another
:01:32. > :01:43.?1.3 billion for roads and things like that. ?1.3 billion is 0.08 of
:01:44. > :01:46.our GDP. Not exactly an infrastructure investment programme,
:01:47. > :01:55.is it? Yellow like I have to say, it was not thrilling to read the
:01:56. > :01:58.details. -- I have to say... It is the first big financial statement
:01:59. > :02:02.that is going to come and I think there will be a big row about the
:02:03. > :02:07.OBE are forecast because they cannot set out a range, they have to commit
:02:08. > :02:16.to one forecast. Everything they do is incredibly political. DOB are is
:02:17. > :02:24.on a hiding to nothing. -- DOB are -- the Office for Budget
:02:25. > :02:28.Responsibility. I don't know how they will square the circle. It is
:02:29. > :02:31.an interesting week. It is all about the economy and public finances and
:02:32. > :02:36.we don't have to talk about Brexit until next Sunday, but no, I have a
:02:37. > :02:46.terrible feeling that by the end of Wednesday afternoon we will be
:02:47. > :02:49.screaming and shouting about how Brexit is going to be for the
:02:50. > :02:53.economy. Just imagine the Treasury comes out with his forecast that it
:02:54. > :03:02.is going to collapse growth and collapsed Treasury takings, people
:03:03. > :03:08.will be apoplectic. Until now, the economy has continued to grow
:03:09. > :03:11.strongly. Pretty well. They cannot say, we have noticed it slowing down
:03:12. > :03:15.and that will continue. They have to take a punt if they think it will
:03:16. > :03:18.slow down. It affects the Chancellor's figures, because the
:03:19. > :03:25.more they say it is slowing down, and I have seen that it will go from
:03:26. > :03:28.2% down to 1.4%, the more the Chancellor's deficit rises even
:03:29. > :03:33.without any more tax cuts and spending. Absolutely. I think Tom is
:03:34. > :03:38.right. What we will see this week is a continuation of the debate we have
:03:39. > :03:41.been having all along. If the Office for Budget Responsibility has
:03:42. > :03:50.negative and gloomy predictions there will be howls of agony, and
:03:51. > :03:53.rightly howls of frustration from Brexiteers who will say that all the
:03:54. > :03:57.dire predictions from before the referendum have not come to pass and
:03:58. > :04:04.now you are talking things down in a way that becomes a self-fulfilling
:04:05. > :04:11.prophecy. The money for roads, you were dismissive about it, but every
:04:12. > :04:15.little helps. I don't dismiss it, I say it doesn't amount to a fiscal
:04:16. > :04:24.stimulus in macro economic terms. I'm sure if you are on that road, it
:04:25. > :04:31.will be useful. They are going to build a super highway between Oxford
:04:32. > :04:38.and Cambridge. I would like to see them go out to Japan and learn how
:04:39. > :04:42.to fill a hole in two days. I would suggest the road from Oxford to
:04:43. > :04:45.Cambridge is not for the just managing classes, even though it
:04:46. > :04:57.goes through Milton Keynes, and that simply freezing due freezing fuel
:04:58. > :05:02.duty isn't going to hack it, either. These just about managing people are
:05:03. > :05:05.potentially quite a big band. With income tax rises, it means anything
:05:06. > :05:08.you do to help them is incredibly expensive. The universal credit
:05:09. > :05:14.freeze is an interesting example of that. Philip Hammond sounded
:05:15. > :05:22.ambivalent about it after pre-briefings that it might not the
:05:23. > :05:26.cuts might not go ahead. There are people who are in work but because
:05:27. > :05:32.they are low paid don't have the number of hours, they require
:05:33. > :05:37.welfare benefits to top up their pay, and these welfare benefits as
:05:38. > :05:41.it stands, are frozen until 202 , and yet inflation is now starting to
:05:42. > :05:47.rise. That's a problem for the just managing people. Correct. It is
:05:48. > :05:55.worse than that, because we are talking about April 2017 when tax
:05:56. > :06:01.credits become universal credits, so the squeeze will be greater. We will
:06:02. > :06:05.get a small highway between a couple of university towns, but if he has
:06:06. > :06:12.any money left to spend at all, it will be on some pretty seismic
:06:13. > :06:18.jazzman for the just about managing people. I am so glad we're not
:06:19. > :06:24.calling them Jams on this programme, because it is a patronising tone.
:06:25. > :06:33.What the Chancellor and Shadow Chancellor did not confront is that
:06:34. > :06:36.Mr Trump's election is a watershed in terms of being able to borrow
:06:37. > :06:40.cheaply. The Federal Reserve is about to start raising rates. The
:06:41. > :06:45.days of cheap borrowing for governments could be coming to an
:06:46. > :06:49.end. You can feel a bit sorry for labour here because after having had
:06:50. > :06:52.six years of being told that we need a surplus and these things are
:06:53. > :06:56.important, we can't deny the deficit, we have switched now and
:06:57. > :07:03.the first thing that Philip Hammond did was to scrap George Osborne s
:07:04. > :07:06.borrowing targets. He has given himself more wriggle room than
:07:07. > :07:14.George Osborne had. He has and it will cost them more. Debt servicing
:07:15. > :07:15.will now rise as a cost. Where is the next political earthquake going
:07:16. > :07:22.to happen? It could be Italy, or the French
:07:23. > :07:28.elections coming up next spring Now, who will face the Front
:07:29. > :07:31.National's Marine Le Pen in next year's French Presidential
:07:32. > :07:32.elections? Well, France's centre-right
:07:33. > :07:34.part, Les Republicans, are selecting their candidate
:07:35. > :07:36.in the first round of Well, France's centre-right
:07:37. > :07:38.part, Les Republicans, are selecting their candidate
:07:39. > :07:42.in the first round of Let's speak to our correspondent
:07:43. > :07:55.in Paris, Hugh Schofield. Welcome to the programme. Three main
:07:56. > :08:00.candidates, the former -- two former prime ministers and Nicolas Sarkozy,
:08:01. > :08:05.the former president. It is not clear who the front runner is.
:08:06. > :08:15.Robbins it is quite an exciting race, because four weeks it did look
:08:16. > :08:23.as if it was going to be Juppe. It is a two round race. Two go through
:08:24. > :08:27.and the idea is that they rally all the support together. It looked like
:08:28. > :08:31.the first round would be dominated by Juppe and Nicolas Sarkozy, and
:08:32. > :08:39.there was a clear binary combination there, because Sarkozy was looking
:08:40. > :08:42.for squeamish far right voters. In other words, veering clearly to the
:08:43. > :08:48.right and far right on immigration and identity issues. And Juppe is
:08:49. > :08:54.the opposite, saying we had to appeal to the centre. That was what
:08:55. > :08:58.it looked like. But the third candidate has made this really quite
:08:59. > :09:03.staggering surge in the last few days. There was a debate on Thursday
:09:04. > :09:08.and he was deemed to have won it on television. He is coming up
:09:09. > :09:11.strongly, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him go through
:09:12. > :09:17.which would be interesting from a British perspective, because if the
:09:18. > :09:21.becomes president, he will be the first president with a British wife.
:09:22. > :09:28.His wife Penelope is Welsh. We will have to leave it there. I
:09:29. > :09:31.would suggest that the reason it is fascinating is that whoever wins
:09:32. > :09:36.this primary for the centre-right party is likely to be the next
:09:37. > :09:40.president, and who the next president is will be very important
:09:41. > :09:44.for Britain in these Brexit negotiations. Nothing will really
:09:45. > :09:49.happen until it is determined. Then after the German elections in
:09:50. > :09:54.October. I would add one more constituent part. The most important
:09:55. > :10:01.thing about the race is who can stop Marine Le Pen. Marine Le Pen will
:10:02. > :10:10.almost be one of the ones in the run-off. The Socialists don't expect
:10:11. > :10:17.much. Francois Hollande is done There is too much of a cliff to
:10:18. > :10:21.climb. Which one of these three centre-right candidates can stop
:10:22. > :10:26.Marine Le Pen? We have had Brexit and Trump, but we could also have
:10:27. > :10:34.Marine Le Pen. If it is Sarkozy it is the battle of the right. In some
:10:35. > :10:41.areas, he has moved to the right of marine Le Pen. I suppose he feels he
:10:42. > :10:44.has do in order to take the wind out of our sails. You wonder if she
:10:45. > :10:48.could succeed later on if she does not this time. Talking to French
:10:49. > :10:52.analysts last night, there was suggesting that she could not do it
:10:53. > :10:56.this time but could win the next time. All the events in France over
:10:57. > :11:00.the last year seemed to provide the most propitious circumstances for
:11:01. > :11:06.her to do well, and particularly if you throw in Trump and Brexit.
:11:07. > :11:10.Suppose it is Mr Sarkozy, and he goes through and wins the Republican
:11:11. > :11:18.nomination, and he and Marine Le Pen go through to the second round, that
:11:19. > :11:22.would mean, think about it, is that a lot of French socialist voters and
:11:23. > :11:29.those on the father left would have to grit their teeth and vote for
:11:30. > :11:34.Nicolas Sarkozy. They might not do it. We might see what we saw in
:11:35. > :11:45.America, where lots of potential Clinton voters did not turn out You
:11:46. > :11:49.got politicians like Melanchon on the far left saying there are
:11:50. > :11:56.foreign workers taking bread out of French workers' mounts. We sometimes
:11:57. > :12:02.forget, because we tend to emphasise the National of the National front,
:12:03. > :12:13.but actually, there are economic policy is quite Bennite. Sarkozy is
:12:14. > :12:25.the Hillary Clinton of the French elections. He is Mr establishment.
:12:26. > :12:30.Juppe and the other third candidate are the same. You have to
:12:31. > :12:32.re-establish candidates running against an antiestablishment
:12:33. > :12:37.candidate. There are populist economic policies from the National
:12:38. > :12:40.front. The other three want to raise the retirement age and cut back on
:12:41. > :12:49.the 35 hour week, which are not classic electoral appeals. Mr Juppe
:12:50. > :12:52.used to be the Mayor of Bordeaux. And we are the biggest importers of
:12:53. > :13:01.claret, so that could have an effect. In 2002, it was Jack Shear
:13:02. > :13:08.against John Marine Le Pen, and the socialist campaign slogan was, vote
:13:09. > :13:10.for the Crook, not the fascist. We will see what they come up with this
:13:11. > :13:12.time. The Daily Politics is back at noon
:13:13. > :13:17.tomorrow on BBC Two, where on Wednesday I will have full
:13:18. > :13:23.coverage of the Chancellor's Autumn But remember, if it's Sunday,
:13:24. > :13:32.it's the Sunday Politics.