:00:37. > :00:39.It's Sunday morning, and this is the Sunday Politics.
:00:40. > :00:43.Theresa May will be the first foreign leader to visit US
:00:44. > :00:45.President Donald Trump this week - she's promised to hold "very
:00:46. > :00:49.frank" conversations with the new and controversial
:00:50. > :00:56.Speaking of the 45th President of America,
:00:57. > :00:59.we'll be looking at what the Trump presidency could hold
:01:00. > :01:05.in store for Britain and the rest of the world.
:01:06. > :01:08.And with the Supreme Court expected to say that Parliament should
:01:09. > :01:11.have a vote before the Brexit process begins, we'll ask
:01:12. > :01:16.Shadow Home Secretary Diane Abbott what Labour will do next.
:01:17. > :01:19.And in the South East, dumping rubbish is on the rise.
:01:20. > :01:35.So, do we need sharper teeth to help fight the fly-tippers?
:01:36. > :01:38.And to talk about all of that and more, I'm joined by three
:01:39. > :01:41.journalists who, in an era of so-called fake news, can be
:01:42. > :01:44.relied upon for their accuracy, their impartiality -
:01:45. > :01:47.and their willingness to come to the studio
:01:48. > :01:54.It's Steve Richards, Julia Hartley-Brewer
:01:55. > :02:00.and Tom Newton Dunn, and during the programme they'll be
:02:01. > :02:04.tweeting as often as the 45th President of the USA in the middle
:02:05. > :02:14.So - the Prime Minister has been appearing on the BBC this morning.
:02:15. > :02:16.She was mostly talking about Donald Trump and Brexit,
:02:17. > :02:19.but she was also asked about a story on the front of this
:02:20. > :02:23.It's reported that an unarmed Trident missile test fired
:02:24. > :02:29.from the submarine HMS Vengeance near the Florida coast in June
:02:30. > :02:38.The paper says the incident took place weeks before a crucial Commons
:02:39. > :02:42.Well, let's have listen to Theresa May talking
:02:43. > :02:47.The issue that we were talking about in the House of Commons
:02:48. > :02:51.It was about whether or not we should renew Trident,
:02:52. > :02:54.whether we should look to the future and have a replacement Trident.
:02:55. > :02:57.That's what we were talking about in the House of Commons.
:02:58. > :02:59.That's what the House of Commons voted for.
:03:00. > :03:05.He doesn't want to defend our country with an independent
:03:06. > :03:12.There are tests that take place all the time, regularly,
:03:13. > :03:20.What we were talking about in that debate that took place...
:03:21. > :03:28.I'm not going to get an answer to this.
:03:29. > :03:34.Tom, it was clear this was going to come up this morning. It is on the
:03:35. > :03:39.front page of the Sunday Times. It would seem to me the Prime Minister
:03:40. > :03:45.wasn't properly briefed on how to reply. I think she probably was, but
:03:46. > :03:48.the Prime Minister we now have doesn't necessarily answer all
:03:49. > :03:56.questions in the straightest way. She didn't answer that one and all.
:03:57. > :04:03.Unlike previous ones? She made it quite clear she was briefed. You
:04:04. > :04:08.read between the Theresa May lines. By simply not answering Andrew Marr
:04:09. > :04:12.four times, it is obvious she knew, and that she knew before she went
:04:13. > :04:18.into the House of Commons and urged everyone to renew the ?40 billion
:04:19. > :04:21.replacement programme. Of course it is an embarrassment, but does it
:04:22. > :04:28.have political legs? I don't think so. She didn't mislead the Commons.
:04:29. > :04:33.If she wanted to close it down, the answer should have been, these are
:04:34. > :04:36.matters of national security. There's nothing more important in
:04:37. > :04:43.that than our nuclear deterrent. I'm not prepared to talk about testing.
:04:44. > :04:48.End of. But she didn't. Maybe you should be briefing her. That's a
:04:49. > :04:54.good answer. She is an interesting interviewee. She shows it when she
:04:55. > :04:58.is nervous. She was transparently uneasy answering those questions,
:04:59. > :05:03.and the fact she didn't answer it definitively suggests she did know
:05:04. > :05:07.and didn't want to say it, and she answered awkwardly. But how wider
:05:08. > :05:12.point, that the House of Commons voted for the renewal of Trident,
:05:13. > :05:17.suggests to me that in the broader sweep of things, this will not run,
:05:18. > :05:24.because if there was another vote, I would suggest she'd win it again.
:05:25. > :05:29.But it is an embarrassment and she handled it with a transparent
:05:30. > :05:34.awkwardness. She said that the tests go on all the time, but not of the
:05:35. > :05:39.missiles. Does it not show that when the Prime Minister leaves her
:05:40. > :05:43.comfort zone of Home Office affairs or related matters, she often
:05:44. > :05:50.struggles. We've seen it under questioning from Mr Corbyn even, and
:05:51. > :05:54.we saw it again today. Absolutely. Tests of various aspects of the
:05:55. > :05:59.missiles go on all the time, but there's only been five since 2000.
:06:00. > :06:03.What you described wouldn't have worked, because in previous tests
:06:04. > :06:11.they have always been very public about it. Look how well our missiles
:06:12. > :06:19.work! She may not have misled Parliament, but she may not have
:06:20. > :06:24.known about it. If she didn't know, does Michael Fallon still have a job
:06:25. > :06:30.on Monday? Should Parliament know about a test that doesn't work? Some
:06:31. > :06:36.would say absolutely not. Our deterrent is there to deter people
:06:37. > :06:41.from attacking us. If they know that we are hitting the United States by
:06:42. > :06:46.mistake rather than the Atlantic Ocean, then... There is such a thing
:06:47. > :06:52.as national security, and telling all the bad guys about where we are
:06:53. > :06:56.going wrong may not be a good idea. It was her first statement as Prime
:06:57. > :07:02.Minister to put her case for renewal, to have the vote on
:07:03. > :07:05.Trident, and in that context, it is significant not to say anything. If
:07:06. > :07:09.anyone knows where the missile landed, give us a call!
:07:10. > :07:11.So Donald Trump's inauguration day closed with him dancing
:07:12. > :07:14.to Frank Sinatra's My Way, and whatever your view on the 45th
:07:15. > :07:17.President of the United States he certainly did do it his way.
:07:18. > :07:19.Not for him the idealistic call for national unity -
:07:20. > :07:21.instead he used Friday's inaugural address to launch a blistering
:07:22. > :07:25.attack on the dark state of the nation and the political
:07:26. > :07:29.class, and to promise to take his uncompromising approach
:07:30. > :07:33.from the campaign trail to the White House.
:07:34. > :07:37.Here's Adam Fleming, with a reminder of how
:07:38. > :07:45.First, dropping by for a cup of tea and a slightly awkward exchange
:07:46. > :07:54.Then, friends, foes and predecessors watched
:07:55. > :08:01.I, Donald John Trump, do solemnly swear...
:08:02. > :08:06.The crowds seemed smaller than previous inaugurations,
:08:07. > :08:10.the speech tougher then any previous incoming president.
:08:11. > :08:17.From this day forth, it's going to be only America first.
:08:18. > :08:42.In the meantime, there were sporadic protests in Washington, DC.
:08:43. > :08:46.Opponents made their voices heard around the world too.
:08:47. > :08:48.The President, who'd criticised the work of
:08:49. > :08:53.the intelligence agencies, fitted in a visit to the CIA.
:08:54. > :08:56.There is nobody that feels stronger about the intelligence community
:08:57. > :09:08.And, back at the office, in the dark, a signature signalled
:09:09. > :09:14.the end of the Obama era and the dawn of Trump.
:09:15. > :09:20.So, as you heard there, President Trump used his
:09:21. > :09:23.inauguration to repeat his campaign promise to put "America first"
:09:24. > :09:26.in all his decisions, and offered some hints of what to expect
:09:27. > :09:42.He talked of in America in carnage, to be rebuilt by American hands and
:09:43. > :09:46.American Labour. President Trump has already started to dismantle key
:09:47. > :09:51.parts of the Obama Legacy, including the unwinding of the affordable care
:09:52. > :09:56.act, and the siding of the climate action plan to tackle global
:09:57. > :10:01.warning. Little to say about foreign policy, but promised to eradicate
:10:02. > :10:06.Islamic terrorism from the face of the Earth, insisting he would
:10:07. > :10:11.restore the US military to unquestioning dominance. He also
:10:12. > :10:15.said the US would develop a state missile defence system to deal with
:10:16. > :10:21.threats he sees from Iran and North Korea. In a statement that painted a
:10:22. > :10:26.bleak picture of the country he now runs, he said his would be a law and
:10:27. > :10:31.order Administration, and he would keep the innocents safe by building
:10:32. > :10:37.the border war with Mexico. One thing he didn't mention, for the
:10:38. > :10:39.first time ever, there is a Eurosceptic in the oval office, who
:10:40. > :10:42.is also an enthusiast for Brexit. We're joined now by Ted Malloch -
:10:43. > :10:46.he's a Trump supporter who's been tipped as the president's
:10:47. > :10:47.choice for US ambassador to the EU, and he's
:10:48. > :10:50.just flown back from Washington. And by James Rubin -
:10:51. > :11:01.he's a democrat who served Let's start with that last point I
:11:02. > :11:08.made in the voice over there. We now have a Eurosceptic in the oval
:11:09. > :11:11.office. He is pro-Brexit and not keen on further European Union
:11:12. > :11:17.integration. What are the implications of that? First of all,
:11:18. > :11:23.a renewal of the US- UK special relationship. You see the Prime
:11:24. > :11:27.Minister already going to build and rebuild this relationship. Already,
:11:28. > :11:32.the bust of Winston Churchill is back in the oval office.
:11:33. > :11:36.Interestingly, Martin Luther King's bust is also there, so there is an
:11:37. > :11:43.act of unity in that first movement of dusts. Donald Trump will be
:11:44. > :11:53.oriented between bilateral relationships and not multilateral
:11:54. > :11:59.or supernatural. Supranational full. What are the implications of someone
:12:00. > :12:05.in the White House now not believing in it? I think we are present in the
:12:06. > :12:09.unravelling of America's leadership of the West. There is now a thing
:12:10. > :12:17.called the west that America has led since the end of World War II,
:12:18. > :12:25.creating supranational - we just heard supernatural! These
:12:26. > :12:30.institutions were created. With American leadership, the world was
:12:31. > :12:34.at peace in Europe, and the world grew increasingly democratic and
:12:35. > :12:39.prosperous. Wars were averted that could be extremely costly. When
:12:40. > :12:43.something works in diplomacy, you don't really understand what the
:12:44. > :12:47.consequences could have been. I think we've got complacent. The new
:12:48. > :12:53.president is taking advantage of that. It is a terrible tragedy that
:12:54. > :12:58.so many in the West take for granted the successful leadership and
:12:59. > :13:06.institutions we have built. You could argue, as James Rubin has
:13:07. > :13:11.argued in some articles, that... Will Mr Trump's America be more
:13:12. > :13:18.involved in the world than the Obama won? Or will it continue the process
:13:19. > :13:24.with running shoes on that began with Mr Obama? President Obama
:13:25. > :13:30.stepped back from American leadership. He withdrew from the
:13:31. > :13:34.world. He had a horrendous eight years in office, and American powers
:13:35. > :13:39.have diminished everywhere in the world, not just in Europe. That
:13:40. > :13:44.power will reassert. The focus will be on America first, but there are
:13:45. > :13:50.foreign interests around the world... How does it reassert itself
:13:51. > :13:54.around the world? I think the institutions will be recreated. Some
:13:55. > :14:00.may be taken down. There could be some new ones. I think Nato itself,
:14:01. > :14:04.and certainly the Defence Secretary will have discussions with Donald
:14:05. > :14:08.Trump about how Nato can be reshaped, and maybe there will be
:14:09. > :14:13.more burden sharing. That is an important thing for him. You are
:14:14. > :14:18.tipped to be the US ambassador to Brussels, to the EU, and we are
:14:19. > :14:22.still waiting to hear if that will happen. Is it true to say that Mr
:14:23. > :14:32.Trump does not believe in EU integration? I think you made that
:14:33. > :14:40.clear in the speech. He talked about supranational. He does not believe
:14:41. > :14:44.in those kinds of organisations. He is investing himself in bilateral
:14:45. > :14:49.relationships, the first of which will be with the UK. So we have a
:14:50. > :14:55.president who does not believe in EU integration and has been highly
:14:56. > :15:00.critical of Nato. Do the people he has appointed to defend, Secretary
:15:01. > :15:05.of State, national security, do you think that will temper this
:15:06. > :15:12.anti-NATO wretched? Will he come round to a more pro-NATO situation?
:15:13. > :15:18.I think those of us who care about America's situation in the world
:15:19. > :15:22.will come in to miss President Obama a lot. I think the Secretary of
:15:23. > :15:28.State and the faculty of defence will limit the damage and will urge
:15:29. > :15:32.him not to take formal steps to unravel this most powerful and most
:15:33. > :15:39.successful alliance in history, the Nato alliance. But the damage is
:15:40. > :15:43.already being done. When you are the leader of the West, leadership means
:15:44. > :15:49.you are persuading, encouraging, bolstering your leadership and these
:15:50. > :15:53.institutions by the way you speak. Millions, if not hundreds of
:15:54. > :15:55.millions of people, have now heard the US say that what they care about
:15:56. > :16:05.is within their borders. What do you say to that? It is such
:16:06. > :16:14.an overstatement. The point is that Donald Trump is in a Jacksonian
:16:15. > :16:17.tradition of national populism. He is appealing to the people first.
:16:18. > :16:23.The other day, I was sitting below this page during the address, and he
:16:24. > :16:27.said, everyone sitting behind me as part of the problem. Everyone in
:16:28. > :16:31.front of me, the crowd and the crowd on television, is part of the
:16:32. > :16:35.solution, so we are giving the Government back to the people. That
:16:36. > :16:38.emphasis is going to change American life, including American
:16:39. > :16:47.International relations. It doesn't moving the leak back -- it doesn't
:16:48. > :16:52.mean we are moving out of Nato, it simply means we will put our
:16:53. > :16:56.national interests first. There were echoes of Andrew Jackson's
:16:57. > :17:01.inauguration address of 1820. That night, the Jacksonians trashed the
:17:02. > :17:04.White House, but Mr Trump's people didn't do that, so there is a
:17:05. > :17:10.difference there. He also said something else in the address - that
:17:11. > :17:17.protectionism would lead to prosperity. I would suggest there is
:17:18. > :17:23.no evidence for that in the post-war world. He talked about protecting
:17:24. > :17:26.the American worker, American jobs, the American economy. I actually
:17:27. > :17:33.think that Donald Trump will not turn out to be a protectionist. If
:17:34. > :17:39.you read the heart of the deal... This is referring to two Republican
:17:40. > :17:48.senators who introduce massive tariffs in the Hoover
:17:49. > :17:53.administration. Exactly. If you read The Art Of The Deal, you will see
:17:54. > :17:56.how Donald Trump deals with individuals and countries. There is
:17:57. > :18:02.a lot of bluster, positioning, and I think you already see this in
:18:03. > :18:07.bringing jobs by the United States. Things are going to change. Let's
:18:08. > :18:13.also deal with this proposition. China is the biggest loser of this
:18:14. > :18:20.election result. Let me say this: The first time in American history
:18:21. > :18:28.and American president has set forth his view of the world, and it is a
:18:29. > :18:32.mercantile view of the world, who makes more money, who gets more
:18:33. > :18:37.trade, it doesn't look at the shared values, leadership and defends the
:18:38. > :18:40.world needs. The art of the deal has no application to America's
:18:41. > :18:45.leadership of the world, that's what we're learning. You can be a great
:18:46. > :18:50.businessman and make great real estate deals - whether he did not is
:18:51. > :18:54.debatable - but it has nothing to do with inspiring shared values from
:18:55. > :18:58.the West. You saying China may lose, because he may pressure them to
:18:59. > :19:05.reduce their trade deficit with the US. They may or may not. We may both
:19:06. > :19:09.lose. Right now, his Secretary of State has said, and I think he will
:19:10. > :19:13.walk this back when he is brief, that they will prevent the Chinese
:19:14. > :19:17.from entering these islands in the South China Sea. If they were to do
:19:18. > :19:22.that, it would be a blockade, and there would be a shooting war
:19:23. > :19:26.between the United States and China, so US - China relations are the most
:19:27. > :19:30.important bilateral relationship of the United States, and they don't
:19:31. > :19:34.lend themselves to the bluff and bluster that may have worked when
:19:35. > :19:39.you are trying to get a big building on second Ave in Manhattan. Is China
:19:40. > :19:56.the biggest loser? I think the Chinese have a lot to lose. Gigi and
:19:57. > :20:01.Ping was in Davos this week -- Xi Jin Ping was in Davos.
:20:02. > :20:07.Is Germany the second biggest loser in the sense that I understand he
:20:08. > :20:15.hasn't agreed time to see Angela Merkel yet, also that those close to
:20:16. > :20:18.him believe that Germany is guilty of currency manipulation by adopting
:20:19. > :20:22.a weak your row instead of the strong Deutschmark, and that that is
:20:23. > :20:28.why they are running a huge balance of payments surplus with the United
:20:29. > :20:34.States. American - German relations may not be great. There is a point
:20:35. > :20:37.of view throughout Europe. You only have to talk to the southern
:20:38. > :20:41.Europeans about this question. It seems like the euro has been aligned
:20:42. > :20:47.to benefit Germany. Joe Stiglitz, the famous left of centre Democrat
:20:48. > :20:54.economist, made the same case in a recent book. In this case, I think
:20:55. > :20:59.Germany will be put under the spotlight. Angela Merkel has shown
:21:00. > :21:04.herself to be the most respected and the most successful leader in
:21:05. > :21:08.Europe. We who care about the West, who care about the shared values of
:21:09. > :21:13.the West, should pray and hope that she is re-elected. This isn't about
:21:14. > :21:18.dollars and cents. We're living in a time whether Russian leader has
:21:19. > :21:24.another country in Europe and for some inexplicable reason, the
:21:25. > :21:27.American president, who can use his insult diplomacy on everyone,
:21:28. > :21:33.including Mrs Merkel, the only person he can't seem to find
:21:34. > :21:37.anything to criticise about is Mr Putin. There are things more
:21:38. > :21:41.important than the actual details of your currency. There are things like
:21:42. > :21:44.preventing another war in Europe, preventing a war between the Chinese
:21:45. > :21:51.and the US. You talk about the Trident missile all morning, nuclear
:21:52. > :21:56.deterrence is extremely important. It doesn't lend itself to the bluff
:21:57. > :21:59.and bluster of a real estate deal. I understand all that, but the fact we
:22:00. > :22:04.are even talking about these things shows the new world we are moving
:22:05. > :22:08.into. I'd like to get you both to react to this. This is a man that
:22:09. > :22:16.ended the Bush Dynasty, a man that beat the Clinton machine. In his
:22:17. > :22:18.inauguration, not only did he not reach out to the Democrats, he
:22:19. > :22:25.didn't even mention the Republicans. These are changed days for us. They
:22:26. > :22:29.are, and change can be good or disastrous. I'm worried that it's
:22:30. > :22:35.easy in the world of diplomacy and in them -- for the leadership of the
:22:36. > :22:39.United States to break relationships and ruin alliances. These are things
:22:40. > :22:47.that were carefully nurtured. George Schultz, the American Secretary of
:22:48. > :22:50.State under Reagan talked about gardening, the slow, careful
:22:51. > :22:55.creation of a place with bilateral relationships that were blossoming
:22:56. > :22:58.and flowering multilateral relationships that take decades to
:22:59. > :23:04.create, and he will throw them away in a matter of days. The final
:23:05. > :23:08.word... I work for George Schultz. He was a Marine who stood up
:23:09. > :23:13.America, defended America, who would be in favour of many of the things
:23:14. > :23:18.that Donald Trump and the tramp Administration... Give him a call.
:23:19. > :23:22.His top aide macs that I've spoken to are appalled by Mr Trump's
:23:23. > :23:31.abdication of leadership. He is going to our radically -- he's going
:23:32. > :23:35.to eradicate extremist Islam from the face of the year. Is that
:23:36. > :23:39.realistic? I know people in the national security realm have worked
:23:40. > :23:45.on a plan. They say they will have such a plan in some detail within 90
:23:46. > :23:51.days. Lets hope they succeed. We have run out of time. As a issues.
:23:52. > :23:54.Thank you, both. -- fascinating issues.
:23:55. > :23:57.So Theresa May promised a big speech on Brexit, and this week -
:23:58. > :23:59.perhaps against expectation - she delivered, trying to answer
:24:00. > :24:02.claims that the government didn't have a plan with an explicit
:24:03. > :24:05.wish-list of what she hopes to achieve in negotiations with the EU.
:24:06. > :24:07.To her allies it was ambitious, bold, optimistic -
:24:08. > :24:09.to her opponents it was full of contradictions
:24:10. > :24:13.Here's Adam again, with a reminder of the speech and how
:24:14. > :24:18.There are speeches, and there are speeches.
:24:19. > :24:21.Like Theresa May's 12 principles for a Brexit deal leading
:24:22. > :24:24.to the UK fully out of the EU but still friendly in terms
:24:25. > :24:28.This agreement should allow for the freest possible trade
:24:29. > :24:31.in goods and services between Britain and the EU's member states.
:24:32. > :24:36.It should give British companies the maximum
:24:37. > :24:39.operate within European markets and let European businesses do
:24:40. > :24:48.She also said no deal would be better than the wrong deal,
:24:49. > :25:03.We want to test what people think about what she's just said.
:25:04. > :25:06.Do we have any of our future negotiating
:25:07. > :25:11.As the European Parliament voted for its new
:25:12. > :25:18.president, its chief negotiator sounded off.
:25:19. > :25:20.Saying, OK, if our European counterparts don't accept
:25:21. > :25:23.it, we're going to make from Britain a sort
:25:24. > :25:26.of free zone or tax haven, I
:25:27. > :25:32.The Prime Minister of Malta, the country that's assumed the EU's
:25:33. > :25:35.rotating presidency, spoke in sorrow and a bit of anger.
:25:36. > :25:39.We want a fair deal for the United Kingdom, but
:25:40. > :25:49.that deal necessarily needs to be inferior to membership.
:25:50. > :25:52.Next, let's hear from some enthusiastic
:25:53. > :25:57.leavers, like, I don't know, the Daily Mail?
:25:58. > :26:00.The paper lapped it up with this adoring front page.
:26:01. > :26:04.For Brexiteers, it was all manna from heaven.
:26:05. > :26:07.I think today means we are a big step closer to becoming
:26:08. > :26:09.an independent country again, with control of our own laws,
:26:10. > :26:16.I was chuckling at some of it, to be honest, because
:26:17. > :26:20.There were various phrases there which I've used myself again and
:26:21. > :26:24.Do we have any of those so-called Remoaners?
:26:25. > :26:27.There will, at the end of this deal process,
:26:28. > :26:30.so politicians get to vote on the stitch-up, but
:26:31. > :26:33.We take the view as Liberal Democrats that
:26:34. > :26:35.if this process started with democracy last June,
:26:36. > :26:39.We trusted the people with departure, we must trust them
:26:40. > :26:46.Do we have anyone from Labour, or are you all
:26:47. > :26:48.watching it in a small room somewhere?
:26:49. > :26:55.Throughout the speech, there seemed to be an implied threat that
:26:56. > :26:58.somewhere along the line, if all her optimism of a deal
:26:59. > :27:00.with the European Union didn't work, we would move
:27:01. > :27:02.into a low-tax, corporate taxation, bargain-basement economy on the
:27:03. > :27:06.I think she needs to be a bit clearer about what
:27:07. > :27:13.The Labour leader suggested he'd tell
:27:14. > :27:16.his MPs to vote in favour of starting a Brexit process if
:27:17. > :27:18.Parliament was given the choice, sparking a mini pre-revolt among
:27:19. > :27:24.Finally, do we have anyone from big business here?
:27:25. > :27:33.Of course, your all in Davos at the World Economic
:27:34. > :27:43.Clarity, first of all, really codified what many of us have been
:27:44. > :27:45.anticipating since the referendum result,
:27:46. > :27:46.particularly around the
:27:47. > :27:50.I think what we've also seen today is the Government's
:27:51. > :27:54.willingness to put a bit of edge into the negotiating dynamic, and I
:27:55. > :27:58.Trade negotiations are negotiations, and you have to lay out, and you
:27:59. > :28:01.have to be pretty tough to get what you want.
:28:02. > :28:03.Although some business people on the slopes speculated
:28:04. > :28:05.about moving some of their operations out of Brexit Britain.
:28:06. > :28:23.We saw there the instant reaction of Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn,
:28:24. > :28:26.but how will the party respond to the challenge posed by Brexit
:28:27. > :28:30.Well, I'm joined now by the Shadow Home Secretary, Diane Abbott.
:28:31. > :28:39.People know that Ukip and the Tories are for Brexit. The Lib Dems are
:28:40. > :28:43.four remain. What is Labour for? For respecting the result of the
:28:44. > :28:48.referendum. It was a 72% turnout, very high for an election of that
:28:49. > :28:51.nature, and we believe you have to respect that result. You couldn't
:28:52. > :28:56.have a situation where people like Tim Farron are saying to people,
:28:57. > :28:59.millions of people, sorry, you got it wrong, we in London no better.
:29:00. > :29:06.However, how the Tories go forward from here has to be subject to
:29:07. > :29:11.parliamentary scrutiny. Is it Shadow Cabinet policy to vote for the
:29:12. > :29:15.triggering of Article 50? Our policy is not to block Article 50. That is
:29:16. > :29:22.what the leader was saying this morning. So are you for it? Our
:29:23. > :29:27.policy is not to block it. You are talking about voting for it. We
:29:28. > :29:32.don't know what the Supreme Court is going to say, and we don't know what
:29:33. > :29:35.legislation Government will bring forward, and we don't know what
:29:36. > :29:42.amendment we will move, but we're clear that we will not vote to block
:29:43. > :29:50.it. OK, so you won't bow to stop it, but you could abstain? No, what we
:29:51. > :29:54.will do... Either you vote for or against all you abstain. There are
:29:55. > :29:58.too many unanswered questions. For instance, the position of EU
:29:59. > :30:02.migrants working and living in this country. You may not get the answer
:30:03. > :30:07.to that before Article 50 comes before the Commons, so what would
:30:08. > :30:12.you do then? We are giving to amend it. We can only tell you exactly how
:30:13. > :30:15.we will amend it when we understand what sort of legislation the
:30:16. > :30:18.Government is putting forward, and in the course of moving those
:30:19. > :30:23.amendments, we will ask the questions that the people of Britain
:30:24. > :30:28.whether they voted to leave remain want answered.
:30:29. > :30:36.When you come to a collective view, will there be a three line whip? I
:30:37. > :30:41.can't tell you, because we have not seen the government 's legislation.
:30:42. > :30:47.But when you see it, you will come to a collective view. Many regard
:30:48. > :30:52.this as extremely important. Will there be a three line whip on
:30:53. > :30:58.Labour's collective view? Because it is important, we shouldn't get ahead
:30:59. > :31:02.of ourselves. When we see what the Supreme Court says, and crucially,
:31:03. > :31:06.when we see what the government position is, you will hear what the
:31:07. > :31:13.whipping is. Will shadow ministers be able to defy any three line whip
:31:14. > :31:19.on this? That is not normally the case. But they did on an early vote
:31:20. > :31:24.that the government introduced on Article 50. Those who voted against
:31:25. > :31:29.it are still there. In the Blair years, you certainly couldn't defy a
:31:30. > :31:35.three line whip. We will see what happens going forward. I remember
:31:36. > :31:38.when the Tories were hopelessly divided over the EU. All these
:31:39. > :31:45.Maastricht votes and an list arguments. Now it is Labour. Just
:31:46. > :31:57.another symptom of Mr Corbyn's poor leadership. Not at all. Two thirds
:31:58. > :32:02.voted to leave, a third to remain. We are seeking to bring the country
:32:03. > :32:08.and the party together. We will do that by pointing out how disastrous
:32:09. > :32:17.a Tory Brexit would be. Meanwhile, around 80 Labour MPs will defy a
:32:18. > :32:22.three line whip. It's too early to say that. Will you publish what you
:32:23. > :32:27.believe the negotiating goal should be? We are clear on it. We think
:32:28. > :32:33.that the economy, jobs and living standards should be the priority.
:32:34. > :32:39.What Theresa May is saying is that holding her party together is her
:32:40. > :32:45.priority. She is putting party above country. Does Labour think we should
:32:46. > :32:50.remain members of the single market? Ideally, in terms of jobs and the
:32:51. > :32:55.economy, of course. Ritt -ish business thinks that as well. Is
:32:56. > :32:59.Labour policy that we should remain a member of the single market?
:33:00. > :33:03.Labour leaves that jobs and the economy comes first, and if they
:33:04. > :33:11.come first, you would want to remain part of the single market. But to
:33:12. > :33:18.remain a member? Jobs and the economy comes first, and to do that,
:33:19. > :33:22.ideally, guess. So with that, comes free movement of people, the
:33:23. > :33:28.jurisdiction of the European, and a multi-million never shipped thief.
:33:29. > :33:34.Is Labour prepared to pay that? Money is neither here nor there.
:33:35. > :33:43.Because the Tories will be asked to pay a lot of money... The EU has
:33:44. > :33:50.made it clear that you cannot have... I am asking for Labour's
:33:51. > :33:55.position. Our position is rooted in the reality, and the reality is that
:33:56. > :33:59.you cannot have the benefits of the member of the European Union,
:34:00. > :34:02.including being a member of the single market, without
:34:03. > :34:07.responsibility, including free movement of people. Free movement,
:34:08. > :34:15.is remaining under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. Is
:34:16. > :34:20.that the Labour position? You've said that Labour wants to remain a
:34:21. > :34:24.member of the single market. That is the price tag that comes with it.
:34:25. > :34:31.Does Labour agree with paying that price tag? We are not pre-empting
:34:32. > :34:36.negotiation. Our goals are protect jobs and the British economy. Is it
:34:37. > :34:45.Labour's position that we remain a member of the customs union? Well,
:34:46. > :34:55.if we don't, I don't see how Theresa May can keep our promises and has
:34:56. > :35:04.unfettered access... You said Labour's position was clear. It is!
:35:05. > :35:09.It is clear that Theresa May... I am not asking about Theresa May. Is it
:35:10. > :35:15.Labour's position to remain a member of the customs union? It is Labour's
:35:16. > :35:19.position to do what is right for British industry. Depending on how
:35:20. > :35:24.the negotiations go, it may prove that coming out of the customs
:35:25. > :35:30.union, as Theresa May has indicated she wants to do, could prove
:35:31. > :35:35.catastrophic, and could actually destroy some of her promises. You do
:35:36. > :35:43.accept that if we are member of the customs union, we cannot do our own
:35:44. > :35:49.free trade deals? What free trade deals are you talking about? The
:35:50. > :35:54.ones that Labour might want to do in the future. First, we have to
:35:55. > :35:58.protect British jobs and British industries. If you are talking about
:35:59. > :36:03.free trade deals with Donald Trump, the danger is that Theresa May will
:36:04. > :36:10.get drawn into a free-trade deal with America that will open up the
:36:11. > :36:15.NHS to American corporate... The cards are in Theresa May's hands. If
:36:16. > :36:19.she takes us out of the single market, if she takes us out of the
:36:20. > :36:25.customs union, we will have to deal with that. How big a crisis for
:36:26. > :36:31.Jeremy Corbyn will be if Labour loses both by-elections in February.
:36:32. > :36:40.I don't believe we will lose both. But if he did? I am not anticipating
:36:41. > :36:44.that. Is Labour lost two seats in a midterm of a Tory government, would
:36:45. > :36:48.that be business as usual? I'm not prepared to see us lose those seats,
:36:49. > :36:51.so I will not talk about something that will not happen. Thank you.
:36:52. > :36:52.You're watching the Sunday Politics.
:36:53. > :36:55.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
:36:56. > :36:58.Coming up here in 20 minutes, The Week Ahead,
:36:59. > :37:00.when we'll be talking to Business Minister Margot James
:37:01. > :37:03.about the government's new industrial strategy and that
:37:04. > :37:06.crucial Supreme Court ruling on Brexit.
:37:07. > :37:17.First, though, the Sunday Politics where you are.
:37:18. > :37:19.I'm Julia George and this is the Sunday Politics
:37:20. > :37:22.Coming up later, dumping rubbish is a growing problem.
:37:23. > :37:25.So, why are so few councils making the most of their new powers
:37:26. > :37:31.Joining me in the studio today are Craig Mackinlay,
:37:32. > :37:33.Conservative MP for South Thanet, and by Peter Chowney,
:37:34. > :37:36.the Labour Leader of Hastings Borough Council.
:37:37. > :37:41.It is budget time for our councils and, this week, West
:37:42. > :37:44.and East Sussex and Surrey all published their financial
:37:45. > :37:51.Surrey has proposed a 15% increase to council tax and that means
:37:52. > :37:55.they will need to ask you if you agree, in a referendum.
:37:56. > :38:02.Craig, I will start with you, as this is a Conservative council
:38:03. > :38:07.I think we have to accept that we are having to deal
:38:08. > :38:11.It is great that we have all living longer, but that brings
:38:12. > :38:13.challenges for the NHS, challenges to adult social
:38:14. > :38:16.care and, of course, also, to the pension system.
:38:17. > :38:21.Now, of course, it is very difficult to know if the electors
:38:22. > :38:25.There was was a piece on South East last night,
:38:26. > :38:27.in which some people were saying, they thought
:38:28. > :38:30.they felt it was all right, because it was an affluent area, etc,
:38:31. > :38:33.but I'm sure it will be similarly opposed by some others.
:38:34. > :38:37.What I think we need is we cannot just keep saying, "Oh, it is
:38:38. > :38:39.central government", as if there is some magic money pit.
:38:40. > :38:41.But you are happy for the electorate to make
:38:42. > :38:46.It is maybe even wrong for me to assess whether there is
:38:47. > :38:49.demographic problem different to Kent, but I would assume,
:38:50. > :38:53.This is not a one-off council tax rise in Surrey, though.
:38:54. > :38:55.They have routinely raised the council tax.
:38:56. > :38:57.I was speaking to the Taxpayers' Alliance about this.
:38:58. > :39:00.They say they have raised it 82% in real terms over recent years.
:39:01. > :39:03.This is also a council where, not two years ago,
:39:04. > :39:05.they voted themselves bumper increases in their allowances.
:39:06. > :39:14.It is about ?200 for a Band D property in Surrey.
:39:15. > :39:19.It is the weekly shop for many families.
:39:20. > :39:21.It is up to the local people to decide,
:39:22. > :39:23.are they going to go along with this or not?
:39:24. > :39:28.How are we going to pay for the demands of an ageing population?
:39:29. > :39:31.There was a report commissioned a few years ago about how we might
:39:32. > :39:34.It was hoped that private insurance may cover that,
:39:35. > :39:41.but we have not got there yet. It is a serious debate.
:39:42. > :39:43.OK, it is a good way to also duck the question,
:39:44. > :39:49.Is it time to bring elderly social care into being funded centrally,
:39:50. > :39:52.so it is not is not at the mercy of richer or poorer
:39:53. > :39:56.Yes, I think it is. I think Surrey will have difficulty
:39:57. > :39:59.making a referendum for that amount to stick, to win that.
:40:00. > :40:02.But I respect their right to do it and I can understand why they are
:40:03. > :40:06.But I do think social care needs to be funded centrally.
:40:07. > :40:10.But the money has to come from somewhere, in the end.
:40:11. > :40:13.It is all very well just talking about
:40:14. > :40:16.insurance schemes and "we need to think it through", but in the end,
:40:17. > :40:17.it is an increasingly ageing population.
:40:18. > :40:20.There are more old people and the money has got
:40:21. > :40:24.It is an interesting one politically.
:40:25. > :40:25.This is a Conservative council pretty much
:40:26. > :40:32.sticking it to a conservative government.
:40:33. > :40:35.I wonder if they are actually showing themselves to be a more
:40:36. > :40:36.effective opposition than the Parliamentary Labour Party?
:40:37. > :40:40.It is a local authority, same as we all are.
:40:41. > :40:42.Many of us in local authorities are complaining about
:40:43. > :40:45.the shortage of funding, the cuts, the massive cuts in local
:40:46. > :40:49.I recognise it is particularly difficult for county councils.
:40:50. > :40:52.And where they have huge bills with adult social care,
:40:53. > :40:56.it is a big consumer of money and that is a big problem for them.
:40:57. > :40:59.We will find out in May whether they get the
:41:00. > :41:00.referendum through and also whether the council
:41:01. > :41:04.is voted back in, as well. A bit of a wait for that.
:41:05. > :41:06.I would say that referendums do tend to go funny ways.
:41:07. > :41:10.You described it as funny. That's an interesting one.
:41:11. > :41:14.Now, it was the biggest speech on Brexit since the referendum.
:41:15. > :41:16.And although there was plenty discussion about the Prime
:41:17. > :41:19.Minister's plan for Britain to leave the single market, there
:41:20. > :41:22.was little detail for the one of the South East's most vocal
:41:23. > :41:25.Many fishermen had supported Leave and, this week,
:41:26. > :41:27.a group of them went to Downing Street to meet Ministers.
:41:28. > :41:36.They campaigned to leave the European Union and sailed down
:41:37. > :41:40.They say the Common Fisheries Policy, which restricts the quota,
:41:41. > :41:42.size and type of fish they can catch, was broken.
:41:43. > :41:44.The fishermen want Britain to reclaim its
:41:45. > :41:52.waters and limit foreign boats fishing off UK shores.
:41:53. > :41:54.Our industry has been decimated by EU regulations.
:41:55. > :41:57.I have not got enough quota to earn a living at the moment.
:41:58. > :42:01.I could earn a living less than two miles from the harbour and I am
:42:02. > :42:04.having to travel 17-18 miles, to avoid species of fish that
:42:05. > :42:12.Seven months after the vote to leave the
:42:13. > :42:13.European Union there is still uncertainty
:42:14. > :42:24.as to what Brexit will mean for the fishing industry.
:42:25. > :42:26.If the UK opts for the Great Repeal Bill,
:42:27. > :42:30.to absorb EU rules into British law,
:42:31. > :42:32.the fisheries policy would still exist for the time being,
:42:33. > :42:34.while Brexit negotiations take place.
:42:35. > :42:36.But the campaign group, Fishing For Leave, are calling for:
:42:37. > :42:38.So, what hope is there for these recommendations?
:42:39. > :42:44.The minister in charge had this to say last month.
:42:45. > :42:47.So, what hope is there for these recommendations?
:42:48. > :42:51.The minister in charge had this to say last month.
:42:52. > :42:54.The government remains committed to being a champion of sustainable
:42:55. > :42:56.fisheries and ending discards, as set out in our manifesto.
:42:57. > :42:58.We're also committed to the continued cooperation with
:42:59. > :43:05.other countries for the management of shared stocks.
:43:06. > :43:07.Fishing For Leave will publish its full list of demands in
:43:08. > :43:12.So much remains unclear about what will be happen
:43:13. > :43:14.once Brexit is in place, how many of them do
:43:15. > :43:20.We can go to Ramsgate Port now and talk to the head of
:43:21. > :43:21.the Thanet Fishermen's Association, John Nichols.
:43:22. > :43:25.He is one of those representatives of the fishing industry who went to
:43:26. > :43:27.John, you met with the ministers concerned.
:43:28. > :43:38.Well, it was a golden opportunity to go and sit before
:43:39. > :43:45.them and present this - the way forward for fishing in the UK.
:43:46. > :43:48.The foundation stone of what we are looking to achieve.
:43:49. > :43:50.What are you hoping to achieve? Boil it down for us.
:43:51. > :43:53.We do not have time at the moment to read
:43:54. > :43:58.the book, so tell us what you are looking for?
:43:59. > :44:01.I think the first thing is we must remove ourselves 100%
:44:02. > :44:07.which has been a failed policy since the day
:44:08. > :44:15.We need to get away from that and then work out where we are going
:44:16. > :44:18.with this document and find the proper way forward.
:44:19. > :44:23.One of the most important things is to stop discarding.
:44:24. > :44:26.When the country voted to leave the EU,
:44:27. > :44:35.did you assume Brexit would set fishermen free?
:44:36. > :44:38.I suppose it is a hope that it would set fishermen free.
:44:39. > :44:40.But you also have to realise that, in the past,
:44:41. > :44:48.Edward Heath traded us off for better things in Europe
:44:49. > :44:51.We do not want to be traded off again.
:44:52. > :44:53.So, yes, I totally believe we can achieve a
:44:54. > :44:55.proper Brexit for the fisheries and hand our
:44:56. > :45:03.When you talked to the ministers, what did they say to you?
:45:04. > :45:07.Are you encouraged that they were listening to you?
:45:08. > :45:14.I think we are encouraged at the moment, when you are there.
:45:15. > :45:16.But when you are removed from it and then think
:45:17. > :45:21.about it afterwards, there are big holes in what you have listened to.
:45:22. > :45:24.As far as David Jones is concerned, I am reasonably confident that
:45:25. > :45:27.he will read this document, take it on board and see the advantages of
:45:28. > :45:35.With George Eustace, I am just worried that he
:45:36. > :45:39.He's looking after both the agricultural
:45:40. > :45:47.I think that is too much for one person to do.
:45:48. > :45:50.I think, when you look at our sea mass, our square area of the sea
:45:51. > :45:52.is three times greater than that of the land.
:45:53. > :45:55.He is trying to look after the sea and trying to
:45:56. > :46:00.I did not think he is capable of doing both.
:46:01. > :46:07.John, thank you very much for joining us.
:46:08. > :46:10.John Nichols is worried that they are going to be,
:46:11. > :46:13.in his words, traded off again. There is a chance they will be.
:46:14. > :46:16.Do you worry that the Leave campaign promised the fishermen too much?
:46:17. > :46:20.I meet with the fishermen in Ramsgate
:46:21. > :46:22.regularly and know what the demands are.
:46:23. > :46:25.I have actually got that document and I am working my
:46:26. > :46:29.I am actually working on my own Fishing After Brexit
:46:30. > :46:33.How many of these things do we need?!
:46:34. > :46:37.I think it will be very much a similar flavour to their one.
:46:38. > :46:39.Let us be clear about how we got into this dreadful
:46:40. > :46:42.The Common Fisheries Policy has not worked for Britain.
:46:43. > :46:45.It has not worked for the under-12m fleet and it is time
:46:46. > :46:48.You were making noises when they were talking
:46:49. > :46:55.John and his crowd have put together a new policy forward, whereby
:46:56. > :46:59.This is very workable, particularly for the inshore fleet,
:47:00. > :47:03.It is sustainable, it is environmentally friendly and it is
:47:04. > :47:08.not the huge volume of these factory ships.
:47:09. > :47:11.Is there not a risk that, if we end the discard policy,
:47:12. > :47:14.where you have to land anything you do not have a quota for,
:47:15. > :47:17.you have to bring it in, on, but you cannot then sell it.
:47:18. > :47:19.It goes into landfill, or whatever, you
:47:20. > :47:21.have to entrust the fishermen to, what, not catch too much?
:47:22. > :47:24.What John has been putting forward is an hours-based system.
:47:25. > :47:27.So, you go to sea for a certain amount of hours and what
:47:28. > :47:34.That seems to be infinitely sensible.
:47:35. > :47:39.we have been discarding these perfectly good fish because it just
:47:40. > :47:42.happens to be the wrong species at the wrong time of year.
:47:43. > :47:44.So, I am fully supportive of what they are saying.
:47:45. > :47:47.But we were rather hoodwinked into the Common Fisheries Policy.
:47:48. > :47:49.I see a lot of sense in what they are saying
:47:50. > :47:52.that we should take this outwith the Great Repeal Bill and have it
:47:53. > :47:56.has a separate thing which is negotiated now.
:47:57. > :48:00.Peter, what are the fishermen in Hastings saying?
:48:01. > :48:05.They are hoping that Brexit will deliver more quota for them.
:48:06. > :48:08.But I did not think they are convinced that it will,
:48:09. > :48:10.insomuch as the problem with the system
:48:11. > :48:12.is that too much of the national quota
:48:13. > :48:14.is going to the big producer organisations and the big
:48:15. > :48:16.factory ships, rather than the under-10m fleet.
:48:17. > :48:20.Over 90% of the fleet is under ten metres.
:48:21. > :48:23.But over 90% of the quota goes to the big factory ships.
:48:24. > :48:26.One of the other issues is that, I believe, we get to sell
:48:27. > :48:28.60% of our fish to the European Union.
:48:29. > :48:31.If we want to continue to have that access, they are going to
:48:32. > :48:34.ask us to play by the same rules as they are.
:48:35. > :48:37.Do we want the access of do we want to ditch the rules?
:48:38. > :48:59.Why not? Because they will not agree to that. We are actually net
:49:00. > :49:05.importers of fish. That is quite remarkable for a country surrounded
:49:06. > :49:16.by water. That is more to do with our tastes. Why can we not just have
:49:17. > :49:22.the free trade agreement. In virtually everything we are net
:49:23. > :49:28.importers from the European union. Why would they want to be upsetting
:49:29. > :49:32.what is a good market to them. But if the house to stick to the rules
:49:33. > :49:38.and we do not, that is not fear. But there are separate rules for the
:49:39. > :49:49.likes of hours with Norway and a slimmed, as a result of the Cod Wars
:49:50. > :49:56.in the 1970s. At the moment, this is not working for anybody. John
:49:57. > :50:05.missing George use this as too much to concentrate on, on fishing and
:50:06. > :50:08.agriculture. Is this just too difficult, because you have so many
:50:09. > :50:21.huge industries wanting to be at the top of the table. There is a
:50:22. > :50:25.knock-on effect. It is not just fishing. There are so many other
:50:26. > :50:33.aspects of, particularly tourism in Hastings. Thank you very much.
:50:34. > :50:35.It blights the countryside and it is on the rise.
:50:36. > :50:37.Dumped rubbish is an increasing problem across England.
:50:38. > :50:39.Last year, councils were given new powers to issue bigger
:50:40. > :50:42.But few have made use of this punishment.
:50:43. > :50:45.And what can be done to fight the fly-tippers?
:50:46. > :50:53.Sara Neville went out on patrol to find out more.
:50:54. > :51:05.Council investigators in Dartford on the trail of fly-tippers. Carlos
:51:06. > :51:11.like this have become routine. Fly-tipping has become much more
:51:12. > :51:16.commonplace and the methodology is becoming much more sophisticated. In
:51:17. > :51:26.this case, six tonnes of rubbish dumped in a field. It is an
:51:27. > :51:29.increasing claim. Because of the clean-up costs involved, this is
:51:30. > :51:36.almost on a scale of organised crime. These perpetrators were
:51:37. > :51:45.caught during surveillance operations. The majority happens on
:51:46. > :51:49.public land. It can cost councils ?15 million of taxpayers money to
:51:50. > :51:55.clean it up. The officers received over 1000 calls last year.
:51:56. > :52:02.Nationally, the number of recorded flight tips in England went up by
:52:03. > :52:07.6%. The cost of cleaning it up in by 11%. Last year, the government give
:52:08. > :52:16.councils more power to crack down on small-scale fly-tipping with on the
:52:17. > :52:23.spot fines of up to 40 purse -- ?400. But 70% of councils have feel
:52:24. > :52:29.penalty notices across the region. penalty notices across the region.
:52:30. > :52:35.Dark Dartford council has a poor active approach. But there is worry
:52:36. > :52:45.that the cost of disposing of rubbish encourages fly-tipping.
:52:46. > :52:53.There are concerns about the tape of waste and the amount of waste that
:52:54. > :52:58.environmental lobby, but that is environmental lobby, but that is
:52:59. > :53:03.actually a negative side to that. This is a kind of place where
:53:04. > :53:09.commercial rubbish should be brought. 58,000 tonnes was managed
:53:10. > :53:17.here last year. But there are just four facilities in Kent. You need a
:53:18. > :53:25.license to use them. And disposal costs around ?150 a tonne. Keep
:53:26. > :53:29.Britain tidy wants to have fly-tipping in the next three years
:53:30. > :53:34.and believes government needs more hill from local authorities to
:53:35. > :53:42.achieve that. I want them to use some of the income they get from
:53:43. > :53:46.landfill tax to help this. We want support for greater enforcement. We
:53:47. > :53:49.want to raise awareness with households about what their
:53:50. > :53:54.responsibilities and we want government to encourage retailers
:53:55. > :54:02.and producers to play their part in reducing the amount of bulky waste
:54:03. > :54:06.which could end up being used by fly-tippers. But with council
:54:07. > :54:14.struggling to fund essential services, who is going to win in the
:54:15. > :54:19.fight against fly-tippers? No Sussex councils have used these new signs
:54:20. > :54:31.yet? Why not? I think the problem is catching people.
:54:32. > :54:40.It seems to be so many mattresses left on the streets of Hastings. But
:54:41. > :54:56.you don't know -- I have to catch them in the act. You have to have
:54:57. > :55:03.the evidence. It could be a lot of DNA on a mattress. Do not go the! It
:55:04. > :55:08.is a problem. One of the things we are looking at is offering rewards,
:55:09. > :55:12.financial rewards. At the moment, people do not want to come forward.
:55:13. > :55:23.They could appear in court potentially. The problem here is
:55:24. > :55:30.councils need the resources to chase. It is easier and cheaper to
:55:31. > :55:34.clean it banshees the perpetrators. I did not see we do not have the
:55:35. > :55:41.resources, it is all about catching them. We would be prepared to do it,
:55:42. > :55:47.even to the extent of offering rewards. It cost us a lot of money.
:55:48. > :55:53.It cost about ?90,000 to clean up fly-tipping. If it is hard to catch
:55:54. > :56:06.them, it is a pretty empty policy? them, it is a pretty empty policy?
:56:07. > :56:12.There have been six prosecutions in Thanet for fly-tipping. We have two
:56:13. > :56:20.different types of it. We have thus mass fly-tipping that we saw in the
:56:21. > :56:28.video the, plus the more common than casual tape of fly-tipping, the
:56:29. > :56:39.likes of household goods being left outside.
:56:40. > :56:49.places' takeaway waste for ?200 and places' takeaway waste for ?200 and
:56:50. > :56:56.that is that sort of stuff which is ending up in a field. When we go
:56:57. > :57:01.back to the person find ?200. Both parties will be punished in these
:57:02. > :57:08.cases? 27 times in Kent that happened last year. There is talk of
:57:09. > :57:16.on the spot fines as a deterrent, but many people do not seem to even
:57:17. > :57:21.know about them? I do not think it is enough money. If it went to
:57:22. > :57:25.court, the court fine would be a lot more. Possibly thousands of pounds.
:57:26. > :57:35.I think the councils could maintain their own streets better. We are
:57:36. > :57:40.finding the fridges and mergers has been dumped on the road because the
:57:41. > :57:46.collections have reduced. What about making dumping easier. A lot of
:57:47. > :57:52.people have been falling into a radio show to see I got to the dump
:57:53. > :57:57.and they said the trailer was two inches long, you cannot dump the
:57:58. > :58:03.stuff here. We have to make things a bit more reasonable. Yes, we could
:58:04. > :58:08.be doing things better but way. That is talk about making bulky items
:58:09. > :58:19.free. It would not cost a lot more to do that. The analysis has been
:58:20. > :58:27.done. People take their own stuff to the type and having it cheaper
:58:28. > :58:32.having it collected. We would want that collected for free. I think the
:58:33. > :58:36.waste disposal sites run by the council have to be a bit more free
:58:37. > :58:39.and easy. Has to be slightly more accommodating.
:58:40. > :58:42.And now, it is time for some of the other news you may have
:58:43. > :58:45.Councillors from 19 local authorities are calling on
:58:46. > :58:47.the government to crack down on gangs exploiting inner-city
:58:48. > :58:50.children exploiting children to sell drugs in Kent and Sussex.
:58:51. > :58:52.They have written a letter to the Home Secretary,
:58:53. > :58:56.claiming the issue could be the next grooming scandal.
:58:57. > :58:59.Grooming children to become drug dealers to sell drugs from London.
:59:00. > :59:07.Members of the public could be excluded from part
:59:08. > :59:10.of a beach in Whitstable, if plans to restrict
:59:11. > :59:12.THe Whitstable Oyster Company Wants to establish an
:59:13. > :59:15.exclusion zone on the land, which they own, which would
:59:16. > :59:19.It cannot be right that people who have been using this beach,
:59:20. > :59:21.like the sea cadets, like the sea scouts,
:59:22. > :59:30.for more than 50 years should be brushed aside.
:59:31. > :59:33.The Ukip-run Thanet District Council are consulting on plans to build
:59:34. > :59:35.2,500 homes on the site of Manston Airport,
:59:36. > :59:53.The party had been elected on a policy of reopening the airport.
:59:54. > :00:03.It is game over on the airport? Absolutely not. It is a site of
:00:04. > :00:06.national significance and they will keep fighting for it.
:00:07. > :00:09.That is all we have got time for from the South East this week.
:00:10. > :00:10.My thanks to our guests for today, Peter Chowney and Craig Mackinlay.
:00:11. > :00:12.have to do this. Thank you to you both.
:00:13. > :00:22.What exactly is the government's industrial strategy?
:00:23. > :00:26.Will ministers lose their supreme court battle over Brexit, and,
:00:27. > :00:38.Well, tomorrow Theresa May is launching the government's
:00:39. > :00:42.industrial strategy - and to talk about that we're joined
:00:43. > :00:49.by the Business Minister, Margot James - welcome to the show.
:00:50. > :00:57.When you look at what has already been released in advance of the
:00:58. > :01:02.Prime Minister's statement, it was embargoed for last night, it's not
:01:03. > :01:06.really an industrial strategy, it's just another skills strategy, of
:01:07. > :01:13.which we have had about six since the war, and our skills training is
:01:14. > :01:18.among the worst in Western Europe? There will be plenty more to be
:01:19. > :01:21.announced tomorrow in what is really a discussion document in the
:01:22. > :01:26.preparation of an industrial strategy which we intend to launch
:01:27. > :01:34.properly later in the year. Let's look at skills. You are allocating
:01:35. > :01:41.117 of funding to establish institutes of technology. How many?
:01:42. > :01:46.The exact number is to be agreed, but the spend is there, and it will
:01:47. > :01:49.be on top of what we are doing to the university, technical
:01:50. > :01:56.colleges... How many were lit bio create? We don't know exactly, but
:01:57. > :02:00.we want to put them in areas where young people are performing under
:02:01. > :02:07.the national average. But if you don't know how many, what is the
:02:08. > :02:10.basis of 170 million? That is the amount the Treasury have released.
:02:11. > :02:15.The something that is very important, we are agreed we need to
:02:16. > :02:21.devote more resources to vocational training and get it on a par with
:02:22. > :02:27.academic qualifications. I looked on the website of my old university,
:02:28. > :02:32.the University of Glasgow, the Russell group universities. Its
:02:33. > :02:40.spending budget every year is over 600 million. That's one University.
:02:41. > :02:45.And yet you have a mere 170 million foreign unspecified number of
:02:46. > :02:50.institutes of technology. It hasn't got equality with the academics? You
:02:51. > :02:54.have to remember that just as you have quoted figures from Glasgow
:02:55. > :02:59.University there are further education colleges all over the
:03:00. > :03:07.country. The government is already spending on 16 to 19-year-olds. But
:03:08. > :03:12.also, we are going to be adding... This is new money that is all to the
:03:13. > :03:17.good, because we are already spending a lot. We have already
:03:18. > :03:22.created 2 million more apprentices since 2010. That many are not in
:03:23. > :03:27.what we would call the stem skills, and a lot come nowhere near what the
:03:28. > :03:33.Dutch, Germans and Austrians would have. I'm not clear how another 170
:03:34. > :03:37.million would do. You said it is more than skills. In what way is
:03:38. > :03:49.this industrial strategy different from what Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne
:03:50. > :03:51.did before? It's different because it is involving every single
:03:52. > :03:53.government department, and bringing together everything that government
:03:54. > :03:56.does in a bid to make Britain more competitive as it disengages from
:03:57. > :04:02.the European Union. That is what the last Labour government did. They
:04:03. > :04:06.will much more targeted interventions. Under the Labour
:04:07. > :04:11.government, the auto industry got some benefit. A few more sectors
:04:12. > :04:16.were broached under the coalition government. This is all about
:04:17. > :04:21.communities all over the country, some of whom have fallen behind in
:04:22. > :04:26.terms of wage growth and good jobs. The Prime Minister has already
:04:27. > :04:33.announced 2 billion as a research and development priority in specific
:04:34. > :04:37.technologies, robotics, artificial intelligence, medical technology,
:04:38. > :04:43.satellites... So you are doing what has been done before. There is
:04:44. > :04:48.nothing new about this. Wait until tomorrow, because there will be some
:04:49. > :04:51.new strands emerging. It is the beginning of the dialogue with
:04:52. > :04:57.industry and with workers, and the responses will be invited up until
:04:58. > :05:03.April. That will inform a wider strategy that goes beyond skills. I
:05:04. > :05:08.have moved on to beyond them. I'm slightly puzzled as to how the
:05:09. > :05:13.government knows where to invest in robotics, when it can't even provide
:05:14. > :05:18.the NHS with a decent IT system. Discuss. I have to say I find it
:05:19. > :05:21.bizarre that the government is making an announcement about an
:05:22. > :05:26.amount of money and don't know where it's going. This is typical of all
:05:27. > :05:32.governments over all political shoes, which is total disregard for
:05:33. > :05:40.technical education, so different from Germany, who actually invest in
:05:41. > :05:47.the technological side. Germany has a long history. We want to emulate
:05:48. > :05:51.some of the best of what German companies do. Siemens sponsor
:05:52. > :05:57.primary schools, for example. We want to get a dialogue on with
:05:58. > :06:02.business. We don't want to decide where this money is going. By the
:06:03. > :06:08.way, it was 4.7 billion that the government has agreed to invest in
:06:09. > :06:11.science and research, which is the most significant increase in
:06:12. > :06:16.decades. Can you remind us what happened in Northern Ireland, when
:06:17. > :06:19.the government invested money in state-of-the-art technology for
:06:20. > :06:27.energy? No one needs to be reminded of that, and that is not what we are
:06:28. > :06:32.doing. We are inviting business and industry to advise where that money
:06:33. > :06:37.is best spent. That's very different from government deciding that a
:06:38. > :06:42.particular technology is for the future. The government's chief
:06:43. > :06:48.scientific adviser has determined that we will invest a huge amount in
:06:49. > :06:53.battery technology, which should benefit the electric car industry,
:06:54. > :07:00.and... This is taxpayers' money. Who gets it? Ultimately, business will
:07:01. > :07:05.get it, but often only when there is a considerable amount of private
:07:06. > :07:13.sector finance also drawn in. But who is held to account? Various
:07:14. > :07:17.government departments at local authorities will hold this list to
:07:18. > :07:24.account. A lot of it is about releasing private capital as well.
:07:25. > :07:31.Thank you very much. This week, the Supreme Court, I think we know the
:07:32. > :07:35.ruling is coming on Tuesday. And the expectation is that the judges will
:07:36. > :07:41.say Parliament will have to vote to trigger. Is this all much ado about
:07:42. > :07:44.nothing? Parliament will vote to trigger, and the government will win
:07:45. > :07:48.in the Lords and the Commons by substantial majorities, and it will
:07:49. > :07:53.be triggered? Completely. We've known that. Parliament is voted.
:07:54. > :07:57.Everyone is pretty confident that the Supreme Court will uphold the
:07:58. > :08:06.High Court's decision and say it has to go to MPs. There will be a bit of
:08:07. > :08:12.toing and froing among MPs on amendments. You heard Diane Abbott's
:08:13. > :08:16.slightly car crash interview there. The Lib Dems may throw something in,
:08:17. > :08:23.but we will trigger Article 50 by the end of March. If it also says
:08:24. > :08:28.that the roll of Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast should be picked up,
:08:29. > :08:32.that could complicate matters. Absolutely. That could delay the
:08:33. > :08:36.planned triggering of Article 50 before the end of March. Not what
:08:37. > :08:41.they say about the Westminster Parliament, because it is clear that
:08:42. > :08:46.it was. I never understood the furore about that original judgment,
:08:47. > :08:51.because every MP made it clear they wouldn't block it. Even though Diane
:08:52. > :08:56.Abbott was evasive on several fronts, she said they wouldn't block
:08:57. > :09:00.it. You are right, if they give a vote, or give some authorisation for
:09:01. > :09:05.the Scottish Parliament and other devolved assemblies, that might
:09:06. > :09:11.delay the whole sequence. That is the only significant thing to watch
:09:12. > :09:16.out for. Watch out on Tuesday. Mrs May goes to Washington. It will be
:09:17. > :09:21.another movie in the making! I would suggest that she has a tricky line
:09:22. > :09:26.to follow. She has got to be seen to be taking advantage of the fact that
:09:27. > :09:31.there is a very pro-British, pro-Brexit president in the Oval
:09:32. > :09:36.Office, who I am told is prepared to expend political capital on this.
:09:37. > :09:48.But on the other hand, to make sure that she is not what we used to call
:09:49. > :09:52.Mr Blair, George Bush's poodle. It is very difficult, and who would not
:09:53. > :09:55.want to be a fly on the wall in that meeting! I can't think of anyone in
:09:56. > :10:00.the world who would despise Mr Trump more than Mrs May, and for him, he
:10:01. > :10:11.dislikes any woman who does not look like a supermodel, no disrespected
:10:12. > :10:15.Mrs May. Most of it is actually anti-EU, and I think we should
:10:16. > :10:20.capitalise it. Let's get the Queen to earn her money, roll out the red
:10:21. > :10:27.carpet, invite him to dinner, spend the night, what ever we need...
:10:28. > :10:32.Trump at Balmoral! Here is the issue, because the agenda is, as we
:10:33. > :10:37.heard from Ted Malloch earlier, that this is not an administration that
:10:38. > :10:40.has much time for the EU, EU integration or Germany. I think
:10:41. > :10:46.Germany will be the second biggest loser to begin with. They will not
:10:47. > :10:54.even give a date for Angela Merkel to meet the president. This is an
:10:55. > :11:02.opportunity for Mrs May... It is a huge. It could sideline talks of the
:11:03. > :11:09.punishment beating from Germany. The Trump presidency has completely
:11:10. > :11:12.changed the field on Brexit. Along came Donald Trump, and Theresa May
:11:13. > :11:18.has this incredible opportunity here. Not of her making, but she has
:11:19. > :11:24.played her cards well. To an officially be the EU emissary to
:11:25. > :11:29.Washington, to get some sort of broker going. That gives us huge
:11:30. > :11:33.extra leveraged in the Brexit negotiations. People around the
:11:34. > :11:37.world think Germany as a currency manipulator, that it is benefiting
:11:38. > :11:41.from an underpriced euro, hence the huge surplus it runs of America, and
:11:42. > :11:47.they think it is disgraceful that a country that runs a massive budget
:11:48. > :11:52.surplus spends only 1.2% of its GDP on defence, and America runs a
:11:53. > :11:59.massive deficit and needs to spend a lot more. He's going for Germany.
:12:00. > :12:03.And what a massive shift. I think Obama was quite open, in a farewell
:12:04. > :12:08.interview, that he felt closer to Merkel than any other European
:12:09. > :12:15.leader. And Jamie kind of reflected that in our discussion. Yes, that's
:12:16. > :12:20.very interesting discussion. I think she was the last person he spoke to
:12:21. > :12:26.in the White House, Obama. And now you are getting the onslaught from
:12:27. > :12:31.Trump. This Thatcher- Reagan imagery is dangerous, though. Blair was
:12:32. > :12:35.hypnotised by it and was too scared to criticise Bush, because he wanted
:12:36. > :12:41.to be seen in that light, and we know where that led. Cameron
:12:42. > :12:44.similarly with Obama, which presented him with problems, as
:12:45. > :12:51.Obama didn't regard him as his number one pin up in Europe. I would
:12:52. > :12:56.put a note of caution in there about the Thatcher - Reagan parallel.
:12:57. > :13:01.Everything Trump is doing now is different from before, so Mrs May
:13:02. > :13:07.should not have any of these previous relationships in her mind.
:13:08. > :13:15.That is not entirely true. Donald Trump aches to be the new Ronald
:13:16. > :13:18.Reagan. He may be impeached first! He sees her as the new Margaret
:13:19. > :13:26.Thatcher, and that may her leveraged with him. Thank you.
:13:27. > :13:31.We'll be back here at the same time next week, and you can catch up
:13:32. > :13:33.on all the latest political news on the Daily Politics,
:13:34. > :13:37.In the meantime, remember - if it's Sunday,
:13:38. > :14:16.It's just pain, but it doesn't feel like pain,
:14:17. > :14:19.it feels much more violent, dark and exciting.