:01:09. > :01:13.Donald Trump's travel ban on refugees and citizens of seven
:01:14. > :01:15.mainly Muslim countries sparks protests at several US airports.
:01:16. > :01:17.And in the South-East, we need more homes built
:01:18. > :01:21.And is it ever possible to provide the housing needed
:01:22. > :01:27.Should she have spoken out more strongly?
:01:28. > :01:30.We'll ask former Ukip leader and Trump confidant Nigel Farage
:01:31. > :01:32.what he makes of the travel ban and the Prime Minister's
:01:33. > :01:35.In London this week, the mayor, Sadiq Khan,
:01:36. > :01:38.has been coming under pressure to explain his fares freeze
:01:39. > :01:39.and why it doesn't apply to everybody.
:01:40. > :01:41.And with me, the best and brightest political
:01:42. > :01:43.panel in the business - Steve Richards, Julia
:01:44. > :01:46.They'll be tweeting throughout the programme.
:01:47. > :01:49.It was soon after Theresa May left the White House on Friday that
:01:50. > :01:51.Donald Trump signed the executive order banning citizens from seven
:01:52. > :01:57.President Trump's 90-day ban covers Iran, Iraq,
:01:58. > :02:01.Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen and Syria, from
:02:02. > :02:05.where refugees are banned from until further notice.
:02:06. > :02:08.Donald Trump's executive order also imposes a complete ban
:02:09. > :02:13.on all refugees coming to the US for the next 120 days.
:02:14. > :02:17.Mr Trump said that the ban would keep radical Islamic terrorists out
:02:18. > :02:25.But the ban has sparked protests across the US,
:02:26. > :02:28.as people affected and already in the air were detained
:02:29. > :02:31.US laws have begun legal action to challenge the ban, which many
:02:32. > :02:38.At a press conference in Ankara, Turkey, Theresa May was asked
:02:39. > :02:42.about the refugee ban three times before giving this response...
:02:43. > :02:44.Well, the United States is responsible for the United States'
:02:45. > :02:51.The United Kingdom is responsible for the United Kingdom's policy
:02:52. > :02:53.on refugees, and our policy on refugees is to have a number
:02:54. > :02:56.of voluntary schemes to bring Syrian refugees into the country.
:02:57. > :03:11.Downing Street later issued a statement saying:
:03:12. > :03:14.This morning, the Treasury Minister, David Gauke, was asked why
:03:15. > :03:16.Theresa May had refused to condemn the travel ban at yesterday's
:03:17. > :03:22.The Prime Minister is not a shoot-from-the-hip
:03:23. > :03:26.She wants to see the evidence, she wants
:03:27. > :03:31.to understand precisely what the implications are.
:03:32. > :03:34.She'd been in a series of very lengthy meetings with
:03:35. > :03:37.President Erdogan, and she's someone who wants to see the briefing and
:03:38. > :03:41.understand it, and then will respond to that.
:03:42. > :03:43.I think there are times where, you know, there's always
:03:44. > :03:47.pressure to respond within a news cycle and so on.
:03:48. > :03:49.The important thing is, we are saying we disagree with it
:03:50. > :03:53.We're joined now from North London by the Conservative
:03:54. > :04:05.Should the Government in general and Theresa May in particular be more
:04:06. > :04:13.vocal in their criticism of Donald Trump's travel bans? Well, as David
:04:14. > :04:17.just said, it is obviously right that Theresa has now said this is an
:04:18. > :04:21.appropriate and not something we agree with in our Government, but I
:04:22. > :04:28.wish she had said something at the time, not least because it affects
:04:29. > :04:32.our own citizens. One of our own MPs, Nadhim, for example, because it
:04:33. > :04:39.is also a global crisis. She had clearly built an excellent with
:04:40. > :04:42.Donald Trump -- she had built an excellent relationship with him, but
:04:43. > :04:47.she could have been firmer. Mrs May hasn't said any word of criticism
:04:48. > :04:53.about the travel bans. She refused to say anything three times in
:04:54. > :04:55.Ankara, and it is merely an anonymous Downing Street
:04:56. > :04:58.spokesperson that has issued the subsequent mild criticism. We have
:04:59. > :05:03.not heard from the Prime Minister at all on this matter in terms of
:05:04. > :05:07.criticism. No, but the spokesperson will be speaking with her blessing,
:05:08. > :05:11.so it is clearly something she has acknowledged. As I said before, I
:05:12. > :05:15.wish she had said something at the time. The global climate at the
:05:16. > :05:20.moment is delicate and we need our leaders to work together to address
:05:21. > :05:24.things like the refugee crisis. Potentially, this plays into the
:05:25. > :05:32.hands of Daesh. It is absolutely not the right message. What would you
:05:33. > :05:35.like the Prime Minister to say? As with any new relationship, it is
:05:36. > :05:38.about testing the boundaries. They had clearly got on well, so she
:05:39. > :05:42.should have felt braver to say something there and then. I would
:05:43. > :05:45.have preferred her to say, for example, I need to talk to Donald
:05:46. > :05:47.Trump about this. It is not something I support and I want to
:05:48. > :05:52.understand why because I believe there is a better way to deal with
:05:53. > :05:56.the terrorist threat. I would have liked her to suggest that she would
:05:57. > :06:00.engage with him to do that. The president has instituted a 90 day
:06:01. > :06:06.temporary ban on people coming from seven mainly Muslim majority
:06:07. > :06:11.population countries. The seven were on President Obama's list of the
:06:12. > :06:15.biggest terrorist threats to the United States. Mr Trump wants this
:06:16. > :06:21.temporary ban until he puts tougher vetting procedures in place. What is
:06:22. > :06:25.wrong with that? Because it appeared to me that it wasn't thought through
:06:26. > :06:29.and it was affecting ordinary citizens and some British citizens.
:06:30. > :06:33.It can't be right that a president in that position of power can
:06:34. > :06:38.arbitrarily come up with executive powers like that. It has already
:06:39. > :06:43.been challenged by his own courts. So it is not the considered approach
:06:44. > :06:47.I want to see in a global leader. Who do you believe will be hurt by
:06:48. > :07:01.this, given that there can be exceptions on a case-by-case basis?
:07:02. > :07:06.I think potentially, our global reputation is going to be hurt by
:07:07. > :07:10.this. I have been to the refugee camps in Europe myself. There are
:07:11. > :07:13.desperate people trying to free persecution who will be hurt by
:07:14. > :07:18.this. We are trying to heal the wounds in this country not only
:07:19. > :07:20.because of Brexit. This is a time of coming together, not about saying it
:07:21. > :07:25.is located discriminatory against race and religion in this way. Do
:07:26. > :07:31.you believe that Mr Trump's state visit should go ahead? Well, he is
:07:32. > :07:34.the leader of America, so it does need to go ahead and we need to work
:07:35. > :07:39.with him. I believe Theresa has started in a positive manner was
:07:40. > :07:42.that she just needs to continue in that vein. If he comes to our
:07:43. > :07:48.country, he needs to respect the way we feel about things. But yes, he is
:07:49. > :07:51.the president, so he does need to come to the UK. There is some debate
:07:52. > :07:56.within Westminster as to where it is appropriate for him to speak to MPs,
:07:57. > :08:00.but it is right that he comes. But if he does come on a state visit,
:08:01. > :08:03.should he be granted what this country has always thought of as a
:08:04. > :08:09.great honour, which is a joint address to both Houses of
:08:10. > :08:12.Parliament? I haven't been an MP long enough to understand the
:08:13. > :08:17.protocol of where is the right location for him to do that, but I
:08:18. > :08:22.believe in the past, it has been the greatest leaders, when they have
:08:23. > :08:26.achieved great things globally, it is Westminster Hall. But there are a
:08:27. > :08:29.number of MPs saying that is not the most appropriate place and I am
:08:30. > :08:32.inclined to agree. You don't think he should be accorded the privilege
:08:33. > :08:38.of speaking to a joint session of Parliament? I think there are places
:08:39. > :08:41.where he can do that, but Westminster Hall is not yet the
:08:42. > :08:52.right place. Thank you for joining us.
:08:53. > :08:58.Steve, within 24 hours, we have seen the difficulty of becoming Donald
:08:59. > :09:02.Trump's best friend. On the one hand, it could have huge advantages,
:09:03. > :09:07.particularly for a Brexit Britain. On the other hand, if you are going
:09:08. > :09:12.to be his best friend, you don't have to give a running commentary on
:09:13. > :09:17.every major thing he does. Yeah. We have learned a bit about Theresa
:09:18. > :09:22.May, that when she has to produce a set piece speech which she has time
:09:23. > :09:27.to prepare, she can get it totally right and sometimes more than right.
:09:28. > :09:36.When she is faced with a fast-moving story, she is leaden footed and
:09:37. > :09:40.can't think quickly on her feet. We know, did she regret not saying
:09:41. > :09:44.more? Evidently she did, because we got a statement from the Downing
:09:45. > :09:48.Street spokesperson saying more. So she can't think quickly. She's going
:09:49. > :09:51.to have to think very quickly in response to some of the things he's
:09:52. > :09:56.going to be doing, because she will be asked about it all the time. It
:09:57. > :10:01.does highlight the wider danger that the assumption that the special
:10:02. > :10:04.relationship is always a safe and fertile place to be has been proven
:10:05. > :10:10.wrong before and I think it will be proven wrong big-time in this case.
:10:11. > :10:14.You're shaking your head. I don't see why we are responsible for
:10:15. > :10:18.American domestic policy. I am as appalled as the next person by what
:10:19. > :10:24.Donald Trump has done. He said he was going to do this, which was why
:10:25. > :10:27.I did not want Americans to vote for him. In fact, what he has
:10:28. > :10:32.implemented is much less than what he said he would do when he was
:10:33. > :10:38.campaigning. I have always felt that the campaigning Trump was the real
:10:39. > :10:41.Trump. But what he has done is actually constitutional. He has the
:10:42. > :10:46.executive power to issue this order. It is within the rules in terms of a
:10:47. > :10:51.class of aliens deemed to be a risk to the United States. It is a 90 day
:10:52. > :10:57.limited ban. The last president who did this was a Democrat president,
:10:58. > :11:01.President Carter. He did it in the aftermath of the Iranian crisis.
:11:02. > :11:04.Well, given the spate of terror attacks on American territory in
:11:05. > :11:12.recent years, you could argue that he meant well. I don't agree with
:11:13. > :11:17.Donald Trump. But have people from these countries that he has banned
:11:18. > :11:21.been involved in terrorist attacks? That is the absurdity. He has not
:11:22. > :11:25.included Egypt or Pakistan. But I don't remove everyone getting in
:11:26. > :11:28.such a state about President Carter. The reality is that it is a legal
:11:29. > :11:38.thing for him to do. I don't like it. But it is not my territory. It
:11:39. > :11:43.is illegal, because they have been given a right to remain by a judge
:11:44. > :11:47.in Brooklyn and another judging Alexandra. That is a different issue
:11:48. > :11:53.for people who have already gone through the vetting. I don't agree
:11:54. > :11:57.with this. However, I don't think it's reasonable to say that Theresa
:11:58. > :12:03.May, because she wants to do a deal with Donald Trump, I don't give is
:12:04. > :12:09.reasonable to say she have to agree with each of his policies. It is
:12:10. > :12:13.nonsense. But the issue, Janan, is not whether she needs to agree with
:12:14. > :12:19.him. The question is that she will be questioned about him all the time
:12:20. > :12:22.now. And although these are matters of domestic policy, the refugee
:12:23. > :12:28.policy is international. They speak to issues that affect Britain as
:12:29. > :12:33.well, and I would suggest that she will not get away with this
:12:34. > :12:37.anonymous statement from Downing Street. People will demand a she
:12:38. > :12:40.says something on the record. She would get away with it indefinitely.
:12:41. > :12:45.These situations will recur every time Donald Trump says or does
:12:46. > :12:49.something contentious. She will be pressed to this associate her
:12:50. > :12:54.administration from his. She will probably be in a better logistical
:12:55. > :12:58.situation to do so. She has spent a big chunk of the past 72 hours in
:12:59. > :13:03.the air. She flew from Washington to Ankara, than from Ankara to London.
:13:04. > :13:05.We don't have Air Force One, we don't have those frictionless
:13:06. > :13:10.communications with the ground. She would have been incommunicado for
:13:11. > :13:14.large periods of time when this story was breaking. That doesn't
:13:15. > :13:18.excuse the stiff response when she landed and issued a statement via
:13:19. > :13:22.Downing Street. But during that delay, she did have a plausible
:13:23. > :13:26.excuse. She has also got a much more tricky geopolitical situation than
:13:27. > :13:31.many other world leaders. She has to strike a favourable trade deal with
:13:32. > :13:34.the new US president. It is all very well people saying Justin Trudeau of
:13:35. > :13:38.Canada was much more vociferous in his criticism of Donald Trump. He is
:13:39. > :13:44.already in Nafta, he is not striking a new deal. For how long, we don't
:13:45. > :13:46.know. Exactly, he's trying to stay in Nafta, but he is in a less tricky
:13:47. > :13:50.situation than she is. Now, Theresa May's was the first
:13:51. > :13:53.foreign leader to meet President Trump and the visit
:13:54. > :13:55.was seen as quite a coup for the Prime Minister,
:13:56. > :13:58.keen for a new trading relationship with the United States
:13:59. > :14:00.in the wake of Brexit. The Prime Minister congratulated
:14:01. > :14:02.the new US President for his "stunning election victory"
:14:03. > :14:04.but might not have intended to be pictured walking
:14:05. > :14:07.through the White House with him That picture of Donald Trump helping
:14:08. > :14:11.Theresa May down the steps through the White House colonnade
:14:12. > :14:14.will be the enduring image Mrs May said the President
:14:15. > :14:22.told her he was "100% behind Nato". And for her part, the Prime Minister
:14:23. > :14:26.said she would work hard to make sure other Nato countries
:14:27. > :14:29.increased their defence spending It's been announced
:14:30. > :14:35.that there will be a new trade negotiation agreement,
:14:36. > :14:36.with high-level talks The hope is that this will lead
:14:37. > :14:42.to a new trade deal between the two countries as soon as
:14:43. > :14:46.Britain leaves the EU. Mr Trump said he believed "Brexit's
:14:47. > :14:49.going to be a wonderful thing". On Russia, Theresa May made clear
:14:50. > :14:52.to Donald Trump her continued
:14:53. > :14:57.backing for sanctions. And following the controversy over
:14:58. > :15:00.the President's support for torture, Mr Trump said he would defer
:15:01. > :15:02.to his Secretary of Defense, General James Mattis, who argues
:15:03. > :15:06.that the practice doesn't work. And I'm joined now by the former
:15:07. > :15:22.Ukip leader, Nigel Farage. Do you agree with Mr Trump's
:15:23. > :15:26.decision to ban Syrian refugees indefinitely from entering the
:15:27. > :15:30.United States? I agree with the concept of democracy, a point which
:15:31. > :15:35.appears to be missed by almost all commentators including the BBC. He
:15:36. > :15:38.was elected to get tough and say he would do everything in his power to
:15:39. > :15:46.protect America from infiltration by ISIS terrorists. There are seven
:15:47. > :15:52.countries on that list. He's entitled to do this. I didn't ask if
:15:53. > :15:58.he was entitled, I asked if agree with it. I do, because if you just
:15:59. > :16:02.look at what's happening in France and Germany, if you look at Angela
:16:03. > :16:08.Merkel's policy which was to allow virtually anyone in from anywhere,
:16:09. > :16:12.look what it led to. You said in 2013 there's a responsibility on all
:16:13. > :16:17.of us in the free west to help some of those people fleeing Syria
:16:18. > :16:22.literally in fear of their lives. That's the Christian community in
:16:23. > :16:25.virtually all of those country, it is almost too late because many have
:16:26. > :16:30.been wiped out but if you are looking for a genuine definition of
:16:31. > :16:35.a refugee, going back to 1951, it is someone in direct fear of
:16:36. > :16:39.persecution of their life because of their race, religion or beliefs. But
:16:40. > :16:44.you didn't talk about only Christians, and in January 2014 you
:16:45. > :16:48.said, I seem to recall it was Ukip who started the debate on allowing
:16:49. > :16:54.Syrian refugees, you seem to be in favour of allowing proper refugees
:16:55. > :17:02.into this country. If they can be defined. Mr Trump won't let any in.
:17:03. > :17:06.He is running American policy, not British policy. Since I made those
:17:07. > :17:11.comments, we have had the Angela Merkel madness and I think Trump's
:17:12. > :17:16.policy in many ways has been shaped by what Angela Merkel did. He is
:17:17. > :17:19.fully entitled to do this, and as far as we are concerned in this
:17:20. > :17:29.country, I would like to see extreme vetting. Since 9/11 can you name any
:17:30. > :17:33.terrorist event in the United States that has involved refugees that have
:17:34. > :17:38.been allowed into the country? No, in fact the terrorist events have
:17:39. > :17:43.been US citizens radicalised. When you have a problem already, why
:17:44. > :17:46.would you wish to add to it? I would remind you that of the eight people
:17:47. > :17:50.that committed those atrocities in Paris, five of them had got into
:17:51. > :17:56.Europe posing as refugees so there is an issue here. But perhaps not
:17:57. > :17:59.for America because it has the most rigorous and lengthy screening
:18:00. > :18:04.process in the world, especially for Syrians. You have to register with
:18:05. > :18:09.the UN agency for refugees, which then recommend certain names to
:18:10. > :18:13.America, they then go through biometric screening, database
:18:14. > :18:23.screening, intelligent screenings, including four separate intelligence
:18:24. > :18:31.agencies screening you. How more rigorous would you want it to be? It
:18:32. > :18:35.is much more rigorous than we are or the rest of Europe. This is why we
:18:36. > :18:38.have elections, so voters can make choices and they voted for Donald
:18:39. > :18:44.Trump to become president and he said he would put bans in place and
:18:45. > :18:47.then move towards extreme vetting. As far as the Syrians are concerned
:18:48. > :18:54.he's made that decision but that's what he was voted in fourth. Since
:18:55. > :18:59.you know him, you have met him, you are confident of his, I'm testing
:19:00. > :19:03.you on the logic of it. Not that he's democratically elected, I'm not
:19:04. > :19:06.asking about that, I'm trying to get the case, particularly since if you
:19:07. > :19:13.take the seven countries of which the ban applies for 19 days, again,
:19:14. > :19:16.of these seven countries, its citizens have not been involved in
:19:17. > :19:20.terrorist attacks in the United States. It would be a mistake to say
:19:21. > :19:23.it is just Muslim countries because the biggest Muslim countries in the
:19:24. > :19:27.world have not been included in this. The point is they have made
:19:28. > :19:33.this assessment, they bought themselves 90 days to think about
:19:34. > :19:39.the policy. This is exactly what Trump's voters would have wanted him
:19:40. > :19:44.to do. You said the President's rhetoric on immigrants made even you
:19:45. > :19:48.feel very uncomfortable. Because he started by saying there was a total
:19:49. > :19:53.ban, then amended it to say there would be vetting. My guess is that
:19:54. > :19:57.what he will do is try to genuinely help Syrian people and he will be
:19:58. > :20:04.talking about the creation of some safe zones. Let's see. He hasn't. We
:20:05. > :20:10.will see. I suspect something like that is coming down the trap. What
:20:11. > :20:16.advice did you give to the president and his advisers ahead of Theresa
:20:17. > :20:20.May's visit? That I wanted us to talk about trade and to give the
:20:21. > :20:24.Prime Minister the impression that actually... When she has been
:20:25. > :20:29.surrounded by her whole career by civil servants and politicians who
:20:30. > :20:33.say that everything takes five years or seven years or ten years, to make
:20:34. > :20:36.it clear to the Prime Minister that if there is will, these things can
:20:37. > :20:40.be done quickly. Isn't there a danger of a British Prime Minister
:20:41. > :20:46.who has to deal with the president of the United States, to Ally
:20:47. > :20:51.herself so closely with such an unpredictable, controversial
:20:52. > :20:56.president, banning Muslims in certain ways and refugees, building
:20:57. > :21:00.a war with Mexico, threatening trade was with other countries, thinking
:21:01. > :21:05.of ending sanctions against Russia? I missing something here, what is
:21:06. > :21:10.controversial about defending the Mexican border? Bill Clinton spoke
:21:11. > :21:15.in tough terms, George Bush built six miles of fence, and because it
:21:16. > :21:18.is Donald Trump there is uproar. So you think there is no risk of the
:21:19. > :21:22.British by Minister being the best friend of this type of president? I
:21:23. > :21:26.think there is no risk in putting together a trade deal and no risk in
:21:27. > :21:30.her being the bridge between America and the rest of Nato to say to Nato
:21:31. > :21:36.members if you don't pay your 2% he is serious so on those things there
:21:37. > :21:41.is no risk at all. It was clear from her Lancaster house speech that the
:21:42. > :21:45.Brexiteers in the Government had won pretty much every argument in terms
:21:46. > :21:53.of negotiations to come out. What you want from her? She was very good
:21:54. > :21:56.as Home Secretary, Tory party conferences, the Tory press saying
:21:57. > :22:01.this was the new Thatcher and she failed. She even failed to control
:22:02. > :22:04.immigration from outside the European Union so yes, it was a good
:22:05. > :22:09.speech and for many on the Eurosceptic side of the argument, I
:22:10. > :22:12.could scarcely believe that a British Prime Minister was saying
:22:13. > :22:19.things which I had been roundly abused and vilified for. But I have
:22:20. > :22:22.a feeling we may be in for a very frustrating 2017. The mood as I can
:22:23. > :22:27.see it in Brussels is that negotiating with Britain is not a
:22:28. > :22:31.priority, they are far more worried about Dutch elections, French
:22:32. > :22:36.elections, German elections and possibly even Italian elections. I
:22:37. > :22:39.worry that by the end of this year we may not have made much progress
:22:40. > :22:46.and that's why the Trump visit suddenly things brings into focus.
:22:47. > :22:50.What if by the middle of June, for argument 's sake, the Americans say
:22:51. > :22:54.OK we reached this position with the British, compromised on the tough
:22:55. > :23:00.stuff, food standards and things like that, we are ready to sign a
:23:01. > :23:04.deal now, and Theresa May is to say actually Mr Juncker says I cannot
:23:05. > :23:09.sign this until we leave. What will they do? They cannot throw us out,
:23:10. > :23:14.we are living anyway. But everybody agrees you can talk about the deal,
:23:15. > :23:18.maybe even do the heads of agreement but you cannot sign a treaty until
:23:19. > :23:22.we have left the EU. Let me predict that at the end of this year we will
:23:23. > :23:26.find a European Union who frankly don't want to talk to us and
:23:27. > :23:31.countries around the world that want to get on and do things and that
:23:32. > :23:35.will be the big tension for Mrs May over the course of this year. If the
:23:36. > :23:39.Prime Minister is giving you everything you want on Brexit, you
:23:40. > :23:43.agree that she's trying to get from your point of view the right things.
:23:44. > :23:48.If she delivers on that and get Brexit on the terms of which you
:23:49. > :23:52.approve, what's the point of Ukip? You could argue that about any
:23:53. > :23:58.political party. If we have achieved the goal that we set out to achieve,
:23:59. > :24:01.there are right now out there 4 million people who are Ukip
:24:02. > :24:07.loyalists. They are delighted that by voting Ukip we got a referendum,
:24:08. > :24:11.they will be even happier if they seek us leave the European Union and
:24:12. > :24:15.I think there is still a gap in British politics for a party that
:24:16. > :24:18.says it as it sees it, is not afraid by political correctness and is seen
:24:19. > :24:24.to be on the side of the little people, and that's why, with the
:24:25. > :24:28.Labour Party is fundamentally split, and it really is totally split over
:24:29. > :24:33.this European question, I think Ukip is in good shape. That proposition
:24:34. > :24:38.will be put to test at the Stoke Central by-election, one of Ukip's
:24:39. > :24:42.best prospects in the country. Some people call it the capital of
:24:43. > :24:48.Brexit. Labour is in chaos over Article 50, is picked a candidate to
:24:49. > :24:57.fight Stoke Central who has described Brexit is a pile of notes.
:24:58. > :25:01.If your successor, Paul Nuttall, cannot win the Stoke by-election,
:25:02. > :25:05.there's not much hope for you, is there? I think he will. I've always
:25:06. > :25:12.been told don't make predictions but I think he will win. If you doesn't
:25:13. > :25:17.it will be tough, we will still have our 4 million loyalists, but if it
:25:18. > :25:21.does we can actually see Labour are beatable in their heartlands and
:25:22. > :25:23.Ukip will be off to the second big stage. Nigel Farage, thank you for
:25:24. > :25:25.being with us. It's just gone 11.25,
:25:26. > :25:27.you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers
:25:28. > :25:30.in Scotland, who leave us now Coming up here in 15 minutes, I'll
:25:31. > :25:39.be talking to our political panel. I'm Natalie Graham and this
:25:40. > :25:42.is the Sunday Politics Coming up later, we need the houses
:25:43. > :25:46.but where should they go? We are going to visit one corner
:25:47. > :25:49.of Kent where a whole Join me today is the Conservative MP
:25:50. > :25:54.for Folkestone and Hythe and chairman of the Commons Select
:25:55. > :25:56.Committee for Culture Media and
:25:57. > :25:58.Sport, Damian Collins. The squeeze on council budgets means
:25:59. > :26:03.less money is going from local authorities to fund theatres,
:26:04. > :26:05.galleries and museums. It has fallen by 20%
:26:06. > :26:10.across England since 2010. That is according to a recent
:26:11. > :26:12.report by the Select The report also said that more
:26:13. > :26:18.needed to be done to address the imbalance in the money
:26:19. > :26:21.the Arts Council gives out. London gets half of all
:26:22. > :26:24.Arts Council funding. The South-East gets the least
:26:25. > :26:30.per head of population. So, Damian, as a Kent MP,
:26:31. > :26:33.did the findings of the report I think it reflected
:26:34. > :26:36.trends we have seen. We know there is pressure on local
:26:37. > :26:39.authority budgets and some councils But the Arts Council money that
:26:40. > :26:44.comes from central government has been maintained and the government
:26:45. > :26:47.recognised in many ways it is a false economy to cut arts
:26:48. > :26:50.spending because it is not only important for culture,
:26:51. > :26:52.but we know in the South-East it is very important for economic
:26:53. > :26:54.regeneration, tourism, and supporting the broader
:26:55. > :26:59.creative industries as well. And yet it has dropped
:27:00. > :27:03.quite sharply here by 20% because of local authority
:27:04. > :27:06.funding and that is the biggest single source of funding
:27:07. > :27:08.for the cultural sector. So that is a worrying
:27:09. > :27:13.trend, isn't it? The local authority funding has come
:27:14. > :27:15.down, the Arts Council not. But if you look at successful arts
:27:16. > :27:19.projects here what you see is partnership and that was the lesson
:27:20. > :27:21.from the report. The arts is not delivered
:27:22. > :27:23.by local authorities, but local authorities
:27:24. > :27:27.play a role as partners. Partnering with organisations
:27:28. > :27:29.like the Creative Foundation That is private money coming in,
:27:30. > :27:34.it is relying on private money to come in alongside
:27:35. > :27:37.the Arts Council. The lesson from this is that
:27:38. > :27:40.successful arts organisations producing great work
:27:41. > :27:41.here in the South-East and across the country have those
:27:42. > :27:44.partnerships in place - private funding, some
:27:45. > :27:46.local authority money It sounds like you are not worried,
:27:47. > :27:50.then, about this trend The fact that it has fallen by 20%
:27:51. > :27:55.and we know budgets are going to be What we have to look
:27:56. > :28:00.at is that we know those financial pressures exist in local
:28:01. > :28:02.authorities, so what is The government is keeping
:28:03. > :28:11.its money in, but successful partnerships, working with local
:28:12. > :28:13.arts organisations and encouraging
:28:14. > :28:14.private investment too, We look at the success in Margate
:28:15. > :28:19.of Turner Contemporary, the Creative Foundation,
:28:20. > :28:21.the galleries, we see those We want to share best practice
:28:22. > :28:27.where that is happening. We saw across the country great
:28:28. > :28:30.examples of these cultural networks, often supported by local
:28:31. > :28:32.authorities, but at arms length. They engage with the community
:28:33. > :28:38.and work with others as well. It goes back to the point
:28:39. > :28:41.I raised at the beginning about this imbalance
:28:42. > :28:43.in funding from the Arts Council, why has the government
:28:44. > :28:45.allowed that to happen? The Arts Council funds
:28:46. > :28:53.lots of the major museums and galleries that
:28:54. > :28:55.happen to be in London. One of the things that we said
:28:56. > :28:58.in the report is that the condition of funding they should do more work
:28:59. > :29:04.in the regions through partnerships, that could be touring exhibitions
:29:05. > :29:06.that has been seen in Folkestone, for example, they take live
:29:07. > :29:12.streams of performances at the National Theatre in London,
:29:13. > :29:15.this any world cinema and Ashford. They do live streaming
:29:16. > :29:18.from the Royal Shakespeare We see more of those kinds
:29:19. > :29:21.of cultural collaborations with the money that may go
:29:22. > :29:23.international institutions We also said is that as funding
:29:24. > :29:27.for the arts increases through the Arts Council,
:29:28. > :29:29.thatt increase should go That is the change
:29:30. > :29:33.we would like to see. The Housing Minister says
:29:34. > :29:38.it is a unique opportunity to boost the local economy,
:29:39. > :29:40.jobs and provide new homes. Campaigners say it is
:29:41. > :29:42.an overwhelming tide Two very different views of plans
:29:43. > :29:45.to build a brand-new There is no doubt that new homes
:29:46. > :29:51.are needed in the South-East, Our reporter has been
:29:52. > :30:01.to a village to gauge the mood. This was a protest against plans
:30:02. > :30:04.for new development in Shepway, including the proposal for a garden
:30:05. > :30:07.time made up of Hundreds of people took
:30:08. > :30:13.to the streets of Hythe in the summer, before definite plans
:30:14. > :30:15.were drawn up. That strength of feeling remains
:30:16. > :30:20.amongst these campaigners who lives They live near the
:30:21. > :30:27.proposed new town. They fear such a large number
:30:28. > :30:30.of new homes will destroy the countryside, historic sites,
:30:31. > :30:32.and ultimately their way of life. They are joining forces
:30:33. > :30:34.to fight the plans. I get mad when people
:30:35. > :30:39.accuse me of nimbyism. I feel passionately about the fact
:30:40. > :30:43.that there are people in this country who need housing,
:30:44. > :30:45.I have members of my own family who cannot get
:30:46. > :30:47.on the housing ladder. It is precisely because this
:30:48. > :30:49.development will not address the issue that I'm so passionately
:30:50. > :30:51.opposed to it. The notion that there is support
:30:52. > :30:54.for those proposals is unproven. Within the village,
:30:55. > :30:56.there is opposition to it. The opposition is not
:30:57. > :31:05.because it is providing housing, no one is saying that we do not need
:31:06. > :31:08.houses, its is the sheer scale and juggernaut
:31:09. > :31:13.that is being thrown at this. We are in danger of losing
:31:14. > :31:21.places that are special. The proposed new town covers a large
:31:22. > :31:24.area south of the M20, including the former
:31:25. > :31:28.Folkestone racecourse. You can see up to 12,000 new homes
:31:29. > :31:33.along with community facilities as well as commercial space,
:31:34. > :31:35.new schools and GP surgeries. There is a huge shortage
:31:36. > :31:38.of homes in the south-east. Experts estimate that we need
:31:39. > :31:40.to build around 53,000 new homes every year until 2020
:31:41. > :31:42.to meet the demand. The government looks set
:31:43. > :31:45.to make housing a major But will the drive to build more
:31:46. > :31:58.homes prompted a backlash from core Conservative voters
:31:59. > :32:03.in the constituencies The scheme has received government
:32:04. > :32:06.backing and the leader of Shepway District Council believes
:32:07. > :32:08.that large developments like this, that allowed the council to plan
:32:09. > :32:11.properly for services, Do you not take on any
:32:12. > :32:14.of the concerns of people Of course I take on their concerns,
:32:15. > :32:19.but I'll still have the concerns of all those who need the jobs
:32:20. > :32:25.and homes in the future. Everybody has to recognise
:32:26. > :32:27.there is a problem on housing so everybody across the whole
:32:28. > :32:30.country has to take their We will be doing as the government
:32:31. > :32:37.requires us to do, under their rules There will be multi-tenure
:32:38. > :32:43.in what we are building, there will be homes for rent,
:32:44. > :32:46.there will be self build, there will be shared equity,
:32:47. > :32:48.there will be lots of opportunities But the County Council has
:32:49. > :33:05.a very different view. There is still a lot
:33:06. > :33:10.of detail to come. But forgive residents
:33:11. > :33:12.for being very sceptical of these sorts of promises because you see
:33:13. > :33:15.time and time again with these developments, we are a crowded
:33:16. > :33:19.part of the country, we have a lot of infrastructure
:33:20. > :33:22.already, we are water stressed as it is, our roads are gridlocked
:33:23. > :33:25.a lot of the time, our health and social services are at breaking
:33:26. > :33:30.point, you have to ask The communities not
:33:31. > :33:36.being listened to. This is development by diktat
:33:37. > :33:38.rather than consensus. So far nothing has
:33:39. > :33:43.been set in stone. The council is drawing up a master
:33:44. > :33:46.plan and has started Will any amount of discussion
:33:47. > :33:50.with the communities affected reduce their opposition to such
:33:51. > :33:59.large-scale development or world their concerns be outweighed
:34:00. > :34:02.by the need for more Joining us now is the director
:34:03. > :34:07.of the Kent branch for the campaign for the protection of rural
:34:08. > :34:12.England here in Newport. I know you share many of
:34:13. > :34:14.the concerns raised in that report. Assuming that we do need
:34:15. > :34:17.to build 53,000 homes a year for the next five years,
:34:18. > :34:20.how do we go about it? CPRE is all about positive planning
:34:21. > :34:25.and really good place making. But Shepway has already got
:34:26. > :34:27.a thousand homes lined up plan and we feel that this
:34:28. > :34:33.is creating a pool that is good to drive yet more
:34:34. > :34:35.household growth in an area I can understand why the locals
:34:36. > :34:38.feel so disenfranchised Damian, you represent
:34:39. > :34:41.many of those locals. As we heard in that report,
:34:42. > :34:49.it is the scale of the development that is upsetting people and people
:34:50. > :34:53.who in many cases voted for you as a Conservative
:34:54. > :34:55.and the local Conservative council. 30% of the land was marked out
:34:56. > :34:59.in your film will be green space. That will mean that there are green
:35:00. > :35:02.spaces between the existing villages This scheme will be
:35:03. > :35:06.delivered over 30 years, But nearly all of that
:35:07. > :35:11.land is green space now. But it is also right next
:35:12. > :35:14.to a railway station and a motorway junction,
:35:15. > :35:16.so the heavy infrastructure you would need to support this
:35:17. > :35:19.development is already in place. What we want to do is consult
:35:20. > :35:22.with the community about how We need the jobs, we need
:35:23. > :35:29.the infrastructure, we need the houses, and we have a
:35:30. > :35:32.site that is right next to a motorway junction,
:35:33. > :35:35.right next to a railway station that can deliver huge economic investment
:35:36. > :35:37.that will benefit all residents But it is not just Shepway,
:35:38. > :35:41.other parts of the south-east are facing similar dilemmas
:35:42. > :35:43.and it is antagonising Has there been a calculation
:35:44. > :35:47.here by the government that because this is a safe Conservative
:35:48. > :35:49.area, you can afford This proposal has been brought
:35:50. > :35:53.forward by the council, they have gone to the government
:35:54. > :35:57.saying that we believe that this site next to junction 11
:35:58. > :36:00.of M20 would be suitable It has come from the council
:36:01. > :36:07.they are now consulting There is a large area
:36:08. > :36:12.of land for jobs. If a big employer wanted to come
:36:13. > :36:15.to the Shepway area and bring high-quality jobs we don't have any
:36:16. > :36:17.big sites for them. It is about the jobs
:36:18. > :36:22.as well as the houses. We are hearing about
:36:23. > :36:24.the infrastructure and the jobs That is one of the
:36:25. > :36:27.concerns you raise. The point is that Shepway Council
:36:28. > :36:30.has been democratically elected and they have a duty to provide
:36:31. > :36:32.these houses, don't they? They have a duty to provide
:36:33. > :36:36.for the objectively We know that the site was put
:36:37. > :36:40.forward by Shepway Council in their last local plan,
:36:41. > :36:43.two or three years ago. It was soundly rejected
:36:44. > :36:45.by an independent inspector is being I just feel that this
:36:46. > :36:54.is a step too far in an area So where should the 53,000
:36:55. > :37:00.homes that we need to build on the south-east
:37:01. > :37:07.in the next year go? We should be focussing on those
:37:08. > :37:10.places that have already got the planning permissions,
:37:11. > :37:12.where we can actually direct the homes that we need
:37:13. > :37:15.to where they will regenerate towns, to where they will regenerate
:37:16. > :37:17.villages and small market towns. We should not be building on huge
:37:18. > :37:20.expanses of what is increasingly I have heard from government
:37:21. > :37:23.about doing this. Wouldn't it be better
:37:24. > :37:25.if the government pulled its finger out and made sure we could build
:37:26. > :37:28.on land authority had planning permission,
:37:29. > :37:30.that developers are sitting on, and then we would not have
:37:31. > :37:34.problems like this. There are sites in Shepway
:37:35. > :37:36.where that land is being used, but the order of magnitude
:37:37. > :37:39.and the number of homes that we need is huge,
:37:40. > :37:41.such right writing really get these bigger schemes that we plan over 30
:37:42. > :37:45.years, that annex and the big heavy A lot of young people
:37:46. > :37:48.in the district who heard about these plans say,
:37:49. > :37:51.I want a job and I want somewhere to live and I want somewhere
:37:52. > :37:54.I can afford to live. For young people and people on lower
:37:55. > :37:58.incomes, the biggest cost they pay they pay is housing costs
:37:59. > :38:01.and that is because those We need more volume,
:38:02. > :38:10.more units to be created, and jobs will be created
:38:11. > :38:12.for young people who will We're still waiting
:38:13. > :38:15.for the government to publish its White Paper,
:38:16. > :38:17.was meant to come out at the end of this month that we're
:38:18. > :38:20.still waiting for it. Some of the language used
:38:21. > :38:21.by ministers talking about turbo-charging house-building,
:38:22. > :38:23.accelerating development, Why do you think they are using that
:38:24. > :38:27.sort of tone of language? I want to see a revolution
:38:28. > :38:29.in house-building in this country to make homeownership realistic
:38:30. > :38:31.and affordable for most And if that means upsetting people,
:38:32. > :38:35.building on green fields that already exist in your constituency,
:38:36. > :38:37.you're happy with that? You have to look at key
:38:38. > :38:40.sites that would work. There are concerns being raised
:38:41. > :38:42.by local residents who live There are also people
:38:43. > :38:46.in our film that oppose every We really hope we can see changes
:38:47. > :38:50.in the planning system in The White Paper that mean
:38:51. > :38:53.that we are doing what planning should do, protecting the green
:38:54. > :38:55.spaces and delivering. Now it is time for some of the other
:38:56. > :38:59.news you may have missed this week The leader of Kent County Council
:39:00. > :39:06.has written to the Home Office to ask for more money to help cover
:39:07. > :39:10.the costs of unaccompanied child Paul Carter says by the end of this
:39:11. > :39:17.year the council will be looking after over a thousand asylum seekers
:39:18. > :39:19.are now adults. A leading environmental lawyer
:39:20. > :39:26.is challenging a council for selling of 3000 acres of its downland estate
:39:27. > :39:28.after residents The land might be bought
:39:29. > :39:34.by an investment fund The council says the farms
:39:35. > :39:42.will remain farms and the footpath and downland will continue to be
:39:43. > :39:44.open to the public. And four councils in Kent have
:39:45. > :39:47.confirmed that they are going to consider the business case
:39:48. > :39:50.for a merger before a final decision can be taken the public will need
:39:51. > :39:53.to be involved and approval will be required from the
:39:54. > :39:54.Secretary of State. If plans are approved,
:39:55. > :40:02.it would see the district councils of Canterbury,
:40:03. > :40:07.Dover, Shepway and Thanet, Quick question, does it
:40:08. > :40:10.concern you that councils are selling off their land
:40:11. > :40:12.because of budget cuts? OK, I know it concerns the CPRE,
:40:13. > :40:19.but that is all we have time My thanks to both my
:40:20. > :40:26.guests, Damian Collins Julia will be back here next week
:40:27. > :40:30.with all the political news and chat air-pollution. Thank you for being
:40:31. > :40:39.here. Welcome back and let's get back
:40:40. > :40:44.to Donald Trump's travel ban on refugees and citizens from seven
:40:45. > :40:49.mainly Muslim countries. Earlier, the Labour leader,
:40:50. > :40:52.Jeremy Corbyn, told ITV that a state visit by President Trump to the UK
:40:53. > :41:05.should not go ahead I think it would be totally wrong
:41:06. > :41:11.for him to be coming here while that situation is going on. He has to be
:41:12. > :41:14.challenged on this. So until the ban is lifted, you don't think he should
:41:15. > :41:19.come? I am not happy about him coming here until the ban is lifted.
:41:20. > :41:23.Look at what is happening with those countries. What will be the long
:41:24. > :41:28.term effect of this on the rest of the world? Is this state visit going
:41:29. > :41:35.to become a matter of huge political debate in this country? It would be
:41:36. > :41:38.anyway, but it is a temporary ban, so Jeremy Corbyn is on safe
:41:39. > :41:42.territory. It will be over by April and he is not due to come until
:41:43. > :41:47.summer. But there are three bands. There is the 90 day ban on people
:41:48. > :41:51.coming from the southern countries. There is the 120 day ban on refugees
:41:52. > :41:55.from anywhere in the world, and there is the indefinite ban on
:41:56. > :42:02.Syrian refugees. So there may still be some bans in place. But bear in
:42:03. > :42:05.mind the number of Syrian refugees and refugees from around the world
:42:06. > :42:09.that President Obama took over his eight years. There were years when
:42:10. > :42:14.it was not even up to 50 Syrian refugees that were taken since the
:42:15. > :42:19.civil war has started. This is an ongoing American policy. 12,500
:42:20. > :42:28.Syrian refugees have come in the last year. Before that, it was a
:42:29. > :42:31.hundred and sometimes under 50. But they are reasonable numbers now,
:42:32. > :42:38.although not something America couldn't absorb. Donald Trump is
:42:39. > :42:41.discovering that being a president is different from being a business
:42:42. > :42:45.man. And Jeremy Corbyn has to learn the art of leadership, having been a
:42:46. > :42:50.backbench MP, and has struggled to do it, as we are about to discuss
:42:51. > :42:54.with article 50. With this, you have to dramatise the politics of this,
:42:55. > :42:58.and this is what he has done with that statement. Most controversial
:42:59. > :43:03.ever state visit now? I would imagine so. Even regardless of any
:43:04. > :43:09.opposition from the opposition to trump's physical presence in the
:43:10. > :43:13.streets, the presence of demonstrators will be an
:43:14. > :43:17.international new story. If trump's demands for the details of the visit
:43:18. > :43:20.are quite as extreme and as picky as some of the Sunday papers have
:43:21. > :43:24.suggested, that could also be the source of controversy. What do you
:43:25. > :43:30.have in mind? Isn't he anxious that only certain members of the Royal
:43:31. > :43:35.Family turn up? He doesn't want a one-on-one with Prince Charles. Who
:43:36. > :43:42.would, though! Some people may be sympathetic on that. It is the one
:43:43. > :43:46.subject where he is in line with British opinion. Playing golf in
:43:47. > :43:51.front of the Queen may be a higher priority. We have to be realistic.
:43:52. > :43:54.Given the other people from around the world that the Queen has played
:43:55. > :43:57.host to, like the Chinese president and Saudi kings and the like, we
:43:58. > :44:03.have had a lot worse come to visit than Donald Trump. Brexit - how
:44:04. > :44:08.serious our neighbour's problems on this? Very serious, but they often
:44:09. > :44:15.are with Europe. Labour were splits when we joined in the 70s, and still
:44:16. > :44:18.won general elections, in 1974 and 1975. There were all over the place
:44:19. > :44:21.in terms of the single currency. Blair said one thing one day and the
:44:22. > :44:27.opposite the next day. Brown did the same.
:44:28. > :44:36.Brown usually set the opposite of what Blair said! They won landslide
:44:37. > :44:40.because they have the political skills to put all of the pressure on
:44:41. > :44:44.the major government, even though their position on the single
:44:45. > :44:49.currency was the same as major's. It is about with Europe the art of
:44:50. > :44:53.leadership. You have to be a political conjuror, you have to
:44:54. > :44:57.dissemble authoritative leak when you lead a divided party over
:44:58. > :45:02.Europe, and Jeremy Corbyn to his personal credit cannot dissemble,
:45:03. > :45:06.but he's not an individual person on this. He's leading a split party in
:45:07. > :45:12.danger of falling apart, and you need the skills of a political
:45:13. > :45:16.conjurer. Clearly self-evidently he's not displaying it because we
:45:17. > :45:20.are talking about the chaotic split which will manifest itself in that
:45:21. > :45:25.vote on Article 50. Labour and the SNP and the Lib Dems too I would
:45:26. > :45:29.have thought will all put amendments down to the short Article 50 piece
:45:30. > :45:35.of legislation. Do they have any chance of succeeding? No substantial
:45:36. > :45:39.world is changing amendments. I don't think Theresa May has much to
:45:40. > :45:43.worry about actually. I think if anything the reason she's pushed the
:45:44. > :45:48.legal appeal is that it helps her to have a big chunk of the media and a
:45:49. > :45:53.big chunk of public opinion worrying that the popular will of last year
:45:54. > :45:56.is in danger of being overturned and so even if it was a completely
:45:57. > :46:01.hopeless legal appeal, it generated headlines for a week that as an
:46:02. > :46:06.incumbent Prime Minister trying to execute believe vote suits you
:46:07. > :46:10.politically. I think it is a much bigger problem for Labour, we've
:46:11. > :46:14.already seen some Shadow Cabinet issues in the previous week. You
:46:15. > :46:19.have got to remember it's not just a majority of Labour MPs that want to
:46:20. > :46:24.stay in the European Union, but a majority of Labour constituencies,
:46:25. > :46:29.and a majority of labour macro voters wanted to stay as well so we
:46:30. > :46:32.have three lines of division. One amendment that might get through if
:46:33. > :46:35.it was called, and it is in the hands of the Deputy speaker who will
:46:36. > :46:40.be chairing these debates, and that will be an amendment that said
:46:41. > :46:46.regardless of how the Europeans treat our citizens in Europe, all EU
:46:47. > :46:52.citizens here will be afforded full rights to remain. That might get
:46:53. > :46:58.through. It may indeed and lots of backbench MPs would backpack. We all
:46:59. > :47:04.know there will not be mass deportations, it is not legal, it
:47:05. > :47:07.won't happen, it is simply a negotiating tactic. I agree with
:47:08. > :47:11.those who say you shouldn't be using people as a negotiating tactic, but
:47:12. > :47:17.the reality as it is the EU leaders that are doing that because it's
:47:18. > :47:21.already been offered. The remain as should be attacking the EU
:47:22. > :47:25.governments for not offering that in return. Article 50 is the easy bit
:47:26. > :47:29.for her. I agree with other members of the panel that she will get it
:47:30. > :47:33.through and the court case almost helps her by getting an easy journey
:47:34. > :47:37.through Parliament, then it gets really difficult. All of this has
:47:38. > :47:43.been a preamble and once she begins that nightmarish negotiation, there
:47:44. > :47:49.will be opportunities for a smart opposition to make quite a lot of
:47:50. > :47:55.the turmoil to come. Whether Labour are capable of that, let's wait and
:47:56. > :47:59.see. The divisions in Labour are nightmarish for them but by no means
:48:00. > :48:04.unprecedented. Arguably it was much more complicated in the early 1970s
:48:05. > :48:12.when you had Titans on either side, big ex-cabinet ministers... Tony
:48:13. > :48:19.Benn... Michael Foot, they were all at it. The fundamental issue of in
:48:20. > :48:25.or out, and they won two elections, so you have got to be really clever.
:48:26. > :48:26.But also how money more Labour MPs will resign. We shall find out this
:48:27. > :48:29.week. The Daily Politics is back
:48:30. > :48:32.tomorrow at midday and all I'll be back here
:48:33. > :48:35.on BBC one next week. Remember - if it's Sunday,
:48:36. > :49:09.it's the Sunday Politics. a free five-a-side tournament
:49:10. > :49:23.that's for everyone. For more information,
:49:24. > :49:27.go to the Get Inspired website.