05/02/2017

:00:33. > :00:37.It's Sunday morning, and this is the Sunday Politics.

:00:38. > :00:40.Theresa May pledged to help people who are "just about managing",

:00:41. > :00:43.and this week her government will announce new measures to boost

:00:44. > :00:46.the number of affordable homes and improve conditions for renters.

:00:47. > :00:56.After a US court suspends Donald Trump's travel ban and rules

:00:57. > :01:01.it could be unconstitutional, one of the President's inner circle

:01:02. > :01:03.tells me there is no "chaos", and that Donald Trump's White House

:01:04. > :01:07.is making good on his campaign promises.

:01:08. > :01:09.As the Government gets into gear for two years

:01:10. > :01:12.of Brexit negotiations, we report on the haggling to come

:01:13. > :01:15.over the UK's Brexit bill for leaving the European Union -

:01:16. > :01:20.and the costs and savings once we've left.

:01:21. > :01:40.And with me, as always, a trio of top political

:01:41. > :01:42.journalists - Helen Lewis, Tom Newton Dunn

:01:43. > :01:46.They'll be tweeting throughout the programme,

:01:47. > :01:53.So, more anguish to come this week for the Labour party as the House

:01:54. > :01:55.of Commons continues to debate the bill which paves the way

:01:56. > :02:01.Last week, Labour split over the Article 50 bill,

:02:02. > :02:04.with a fifth of Labour MPs defying Jeremy Corbyn to vote against.

:02:05. > :02:10.Five shadow ministers resigned, and it's expected Mr Corbyn

:02:11. > :02:12.will have to sack more frontbenchers once the bill is voted

:02:13. > :02:17.Add to that the fact that the Labour Leader's close ally

:02:18. > :02:19.Diane Abbot failed to turn up for the initial vote -

:02:20. > :02:22.blaming illness - and things don't look too rosy

:02:23. > :02:24.The Shadow Foreign Secretary Emily Thornberry was asked

:02:25. > :02:28.about the situation earlier on the Andrew Marr show.

:02:29. > :02:33.The Labour Party is a national party and we represent the nation,

:02:34. > :02:37.and the nation is divided on this, and it is very difficult.

:02:38. > :02:42.Many MPs representing majority Remain constituencies have this very

:02:43. > :02:44.difficult balancing act between - do I represent my constituency,

:02:45. > :02:48.Labour, as a national party, have a clear view.

:02:49. > :02:56.We fought to stay in Europe, but the public have spoken,

:02:57. > :03:01.But the important thing now is not to give Theresa May a blank check,

:03:02. > :03:07.we have to make sure we get the right deal for the country.

:03:08. > :03:15.That was Emily Thornberry. Helen, is this like a form of Chinese water

:03:16. > :03:18.torture for the Labour Party? And for journalists, to! We are in a

:03:19. > :03:22.situation where no one really thinks it's working. A lot of authority has

:03:23. > :03:27.drained away from Jeremy Corbyn but no one can do anything about it.

:03:28. > :03:31.What we saw from the leadership contest is on the idea of a Blairite

:03:32. > :03:35.plot to get rid of him. You are essentially stuck in stasis. The

:03:36. > :03:40.only person that can remove Jeremy Corbyn is God or Jeremy Corbyn.

:03:41. > :03:45.Authority may have moved from Mr Corbyn but it's not going anywhere

:03:46. > :03:51.else, there's not an alternative centre of authority? Not quite, but

:03:52. > :03:55.Clive Lewis is name emerging, the Shadow Business Secretary. A lot of

:03:56. > :03:59.the Labour left, people like Paul Mason, really like him and would

:04:00. > :04:04.like to see him in Corbyn. I think that's why Jeremy Corbyn do

:04:05. > :04:09.something extraordinary next week and abstain from Article 50, the

:04:10. > :04:15.main bill itself, to keep his Shadow Cabinet together. That clip on

:04:16. > :04:20.Andrew Marr, point blank refusing to say if Labour will vote for Article

:04:21. > :04:25.50. The only way Jeremy Corbyn can hold this mess together now is to

:04:26. > :04:28.abstain, which would be catastrophic across Brexit constituencies in the

:04:29. > :04:36.North. The problem with abstention is everyone will say on the issue of

:04:37. > :04:40.our time, the official opposition hasn't got coherent or considered

:04:41. > :04:44.policy? I love the way Emily Thornberry said the country is

:04:45. > :04:47.divided and we represent the country, in other words we are

:04:48. > :04:50.divided at the party as well. The other thing that was a crucial

:04:51. > :04:54.moment this week is the debate over whether there should be a so-called

:04:55. > :04:58.meaningful vote by MPs on the deal that Theresa May gets. That is a

:04:59. > :05:05.point of real danger for Brexit supporters. It may well be there is

:05:06. > :05:09.a coalition of Labour and SNP and Remain MPs, Tory MPs, who vote for

:05:10. > :05:13.that so-called meaningful vote that could undermine Theresa May's

:05:14. > :05:18.negotiation. So Theresa May could have had troubles as well, not plain

:05:19. > :05:23.sailing for her? There is no point, apart from lonely Ken Clarke voting

:05:24. > :05:26.against Article 50, no point in Tory remainders rebelling. It would have

:05:27. > :05:31.been a token gesture with no support. But there might be

:05:32. > :05:34.meaningful amendments. One might be on the status of EU nationals... The

:05:35. > :05:43.government could lose that. There might be a majority for some of

:05:44. > :05:46.those amendments. The ins and outs of the Labour Party, it fascinates

:05:47. > :05:48.the Labour Party and journalists. I suspect the country has just moved

:05:49. > :05:53.on and doesn't care. You are probably quite right. To be honest I

:05:54. > :05:58.struggled to get Labour split stories in my paper any more, the

:05:59. > :06:03.bar is so high to make it news. Where it does matter is now not

:06:04. > :06:08.everyone will pay huge amounts to the -- of attention to the vote on

:06:09. > :06:13.Wednesday. But come the general election in 2020, maybe a little

:06:14. > :06:17.earlier, every Tory leaflet and every labour constituency will say

:06:18. > :06:20.this guy, this goal, they refuse to vote for Brexit, do you want them in

:06:21. > :06:25.power? That is going to be really hard for them. The story next week

:06:26. > :06:29.may be Tory splits rather than just Labour ones, we will see.

:06:30. > :06:33.Theresa May has made a big deal out of her commitment to help people

:06:34. > :06:36.on middle incomes who are "just about managing", and early this week

:06:37. > :06:39.we should get a good sense of what that means in practice -

:06:40. > :06:42.when plans to bring down the cost of housing and protect renters

:06:43. > :06:43.are published in the Government's new white paper.

:06:44. > :06:46.Theresa May has promised she'll kick off Brexit negotiations with the EU

:06:47. > :06:48.by the end of March, and after months of shadow-boxing

:06:49. > :06:53.Ellie Price reports on the battle to come over the UK's Brexit bill,

:06:54. > :06:55.and the likely costs and savings once we've left.

:06:56. > :06:57.It was the figure that defined the EU referendum campaign.

:06:58. > :07:03.It was also a figure that was fiercely disputed, but the promise -

:07:04. > :07:06.vote leave and Britain won't have to pay into the EU are any more.

:07:07. > :07:08.So, is that what's going to happen now?

:07:09. > :07:12.The trouble with buses is you tend to have to wait for them

:07:13. > :07:14.and when Theresa May triggers Article 50, the clock starts

:07:15. > :07:19.She needs something quicker, something more sporty.

:07:20. > :07:25.According to the most recent Treasury figures,

:07:26. > :07:27.Britain's gross contribution to the EU, after the rebate

:07:28. > :07:30.is taken into account, is about ?14 billion a year.

:07:31. > :07:36.There are some complicating factors that means it can go up

:07:37. > :07:38.or down year on year, but that's roughly how much the UK

:07:39. > :07:40.will no longer sending to Brussels post-Brexit.

:07:41. > :07:44.But, there are other payments that Britain will have to shell out for.

:07:45. > :07:47.First and foremost, the so-called divorce settlement.

:07:48. > :07:52.It is being said, and openly by Commissioner Barnier

:07:53. > :07:56.and others in the Commission, that the total financial liability

:07:57. > :07:59.as they see it might be in the order of 40-60 billion

:08:00. > :08:05.The BBC understands the figure EU negotiators are likely

:08:06. > :08:10.to settle on is far lower, around 34 billion euros,

:08:11. > :08:12.but what does the money they are going to argue

:08:13. > :08:18.Well, that's how much Britain owes for stuff in the EU budget that's

:08:19. > :08:21.already signed up for until 2020, one year after we are

:08:22. > :08:26.Historically, Britain pays 12% in contributions,

:08:27. > :08:29.so the cost to the UK is likely to be between ten

:08:30. > :08:37.Then they will look at the 200-250 billion euros of underfunded

:08:38. > :08:38.spending commitments, the so-called RAL.

:08:39. > :08:46.Britain could also be liable for around 5-7 billion euros

:08:47. > :08:51.for its share in the pensions bill for EU staff, that's again

:08:52. > :08:53.12% of an overall bill of 50-60 billion.

:08:54. > :08:55.Finally there's a share of our assets held by the EU.

:08:56. > :09:00.They include things like this building, the European Commission

:09:01. > :09:08.Britain could argue it deserves a share back of around 18 billion

:09:09. > :09:11.euros from a portfolio that's said to be worth 153 billion euros.

:09:12. > :09:14.So, lots for the two sides to discuss in two years of talks.

:09:15. > :09:16.They have a great opportunity with the Article 50 talks

:09:17. > :09:21.because actually they can hold us to ransom.

:09:22. > :09:24.They can say, "You figure out money, we will talk about your trade.

:09:25. > :09:27.But until you've figured out the money, we won't," so I think

:09:28. > :09:30.a lot of European states think they are in a very strong

:09:31. > :09:32.negotiating position at the moment and they intend to make

:09:33. > :09:38.The principle is clear, the days of Britain making vast

:09:39. > :09:43.contributions to the European Union every year will end.

:09:44. > :09:47.Theresa May has already indicated that she would want to sign back up

:09:48. > :09:53.to a number of EU agencies on a program-by-program basis.

:09:54. > :09:55.The Europol for example, that's the European crime

:09:56. > :10:00.agency, or Erasmus Plus, which wants student exchanges.

:10:01. > :10:03.If everything stays the same as it is now, it would cost the UK

:10:04. > :10:05.675 million euros a year, based on analysis by

:10:06. > :10:14.But there are likely to be agencies we don't choose to participate in.

:10:15. > :10:24.If we only opted back to those dealing with security,

:10:25. > :10:25.trade, universities and, say, climate change,

:10:26. > :10:28.it could come with a price tag of 370 million euros per year.

:10:29. > :10:31.Of course that's if our European neighbours allow us.

:10:32. > :10:33.I wonder if they're going to let me in!

:10:34. > :10:36.There will also be a cost to creating a new system to resolve

:10:37. > :10:39.trade disputes with other nations once we are no longer part

:10:40. > :10:44.Take the EFTA Court which rules on disputes

:10:45. > :10:46.between the EU and Norway, Iceland and Lichtenstein.

:10:47. > :10:51.That costs 4 million euros to run each year,

:10:52. > :10:54.though in the Brexit White Paper published this week,

:10:55. > :10:56.the Government said it will not be constrained by precedent

:10:57. > :11:01.Finally, would the EU get behind the idea of Britain making some

:11:02. > :11:07.contribution for some preferential access to its market?

:11:08. > :11:10.The sort of thing that Theresa May seems to be hinting

:11:11. > :11:12.at are sectoral arrangements, some kind of partial membership

:11:13. > :11:20.Switzerland, which has a far less wide-ranging deal than Norway,

:11:21. > :11:24.pays about 320 million a year for what it gets into the EU budget,

:11:25. > :11:26.but it's not exactly the Swiss deal that we're after.

:11:27. > :11:29.The EU institutions hate the Swiss deal because it is codified

:11:30. > :11:31.in a huge number of treaties that are messy, complicated

:11:32. > :11:33.and cumbersome, and they really don't want to replicate

:11:34. > :11:40.Theresa May has been at pains to insist she's in the driving seat

:11:41. > :11:42.when it comes to these negotiations, and that she's

:11:43. > :11:51.But with so much money up for discussion, it may not be such

:11:52. > :12:09.Sadly she didn't get to keep the car!

:12:10. > :12:12.And I've been joined to discuss the Brexit balance sheet

:12:13. > :12:14.by the director of the Centre for European Reform, Charles Grant,

:12:15. > :12:17.and by Henry Newman who runs the think tank Open Europe.

:12:18. > :12:24.Henry Newman, these figures that are being thrown about in Brussels at

:12:25. > :12:28.the moment, and exit bill of 40-60,000,000,000. What do you make

:12:29. > :12:31.of them? I think it is an opening gambit from the institutions and we

:12:32. > :12:37.should take them seriously. We listened to Mr Rogers, the former

:12:38. > :12:41.ambassador to Brussels in the House of Commons last week, speaking about

:12:42. > :12:46.the sort of positions the EU is likely to take in the negotiation. I

:12:47. > :12:50.personally think the Prime Minister should be more concerned about

:12:51. > :12:52.getting the right sort of trade arrangements, subsequent to our

:12:53. > :12:57.departure, than worrying about the exact detail of the divorce

:12:58. > :13:01.settlement and the Bill. They might not let them go on to trade until

:13:02. > :13:06.they resolve this matter. Where does the Brexit bill, the cost of exit,

:13:07. > :13:11.if there is to be one, in terms of a sum of money, where does that come

:13:12. > :13:15.in the negotiations, upfront or at the end? The European Commission has

:13:16. > :13:20.a firm line on this. You have to talk about the Brexit bill and the

:13:21. > :13:22.divorce settlement before you talk about the future relationship.

:13:23. > :13:27.Therefore they are saying if you don't sign up for 60 billion or

:13:28. > :13:30.thereabouts, we won't talk about the future. Other member states take a

:13:31. > :13:33.softer line than that and think you probably have to talk about the

:13:34. > :13:39.divorce settlement and Brexit bill as the same -- at the same time as

:13:40. > :13:43.the economic situation. If you can do both at the same time, the

:13:44. > :13:48.atmosphere may be better natured. You have spoken to people in

:13:49. > :13:55.Brussels and are part of a think tank, how Revista gives the figure

:13:56. > :13:59.or is it an opening gambit? Most member states and EU institutions

:14:00. > :14:01.believe they think it is the true figure but when the negotiations

:14:02. > :14:04.start adding the number will come down. As long as the British are

:14:05. > :14:10.prepared to sign up to the principle of we owe you a bit of money, as the

:14:11. > :14:15.cheque, then people will compromise. What is the ballpark? You had a

:14:16. > :14:19.figure of 34 billion, that is news to me, nobody knows because

:14:20. > :14:24.negotiations haven't started but I think something lower than 60. Even

:14:25. > :14:30.60 would be politically toxic for a British government? I think Theresa

:14:31. > :14:33.May is in a strong position, she has united the Conservative Party. You

:14:34. > :14:38.could expect coming into this year all the Conservative divisions would

:14:39. > :14:45.be laid bare by Gina Miller. But she is leading a united party. Labour

:14:46. > :14:50.Party are divided... Coogee get away with paying 30 billion? We should

:14:51. > :14:53.give her the benefit of the doubt going into these negotiations, let

:14:54. > :14:56.her keep her cards close to her chest. The speech he gave a few

:14:57. > :15:00.weeks ago at Lancaster House, our judgment was she laid out as much

:15:01. > :15:05.detail as we could have expected at that point. I don't think it's

:15:06. > :15:08.helpful for us now to say, we shouldn't be introducing further red

:15:09. > :15:14.line. I want you to be helpful and find things out. I would suggest if

:15:15. > :15:18.there is a bill, let's say it's 30 billion, let's make it half of what

:15:19. > :15:21.the current claims coming out of Brussels. And of course it won't

:15:22. > :15:26.have to be paid in one year, I assume it's not one cheque but

:15:27. > :15:29.spread over. But we will wait a long time for that 350 million a week or

:15:30. > :15:35.what ever it was that was meant to come from Brussels to spend on the

:15:36. > :15:41.NHS. That's not going to happen for the next five, six or seven years.

:15:42. > :15:47.Everyone has been clear there will be a phased exit programme. The

:15:48. > :15:50.question of whether something is political possible for her in terms

:15:51. > :15:53.of the divorce settlement will depend on what she gets from the

:15:54. > :15:59.European Union in those negotiations. If she ends up

:16:00. > :16:03.settling for a bill of about 30 billion which I think would be

:16:04. > :16:08.politically... No matter how popular she is, politically very difficult

:16:09. > :16:13.for her, it does kill any idea there is a Brexit dividend for Britain.

:16:14. > :16:17.Some of the senior officials in London and Brussels are worried this

:16:18. > :16:21.issue could crash the talks because it may be possible for Theresa May

:16:22. > :16:26.to accept a Brexit bill of 30 billion and if there is no deal and

:16:27. > :16:33.will leave EU without a settlement, there is massive legal uncertainty.

:16:34. > :16:36.What contract law applies? Can our planes take off from Heathrow?

:16:37. > :16:42.Nobody knows what legal rights there are for an EU citizen living here

:16:43. > :16:48.and vice versa. If there is no deal at the end of two years, it is quite

:16:49. > :16:52.bad for the European economy, therefore they think they have all

:16:53. > :16:56.the cards to play and they think if it is mishandled domestically in

:16:57. > :17:02.Britain than we have a crash. But there will be competing interests in

:17:03. > :17:05.Europe, the Baltic states, Eastern Europe, maybe quite similar of the

:17:06. > :17:10.Nordic states, that in turn different from the French, Germans

:17:11. > :17:16.or Italians. How will Europe come to a common view on these things? At

:17:17. > :17:24.the moment they are quite united backing a strong line, except for

:17:25. > :17:29.the polls and Hungarians who are the bad boys of Europe and the Irish who

:17:30. > :17:34.will do anything to keep us happy. We should remember their priority is

:17:35. > :17:38.not economics, they are not thinking how can they maximise trade with the

:17:39. > :17:42.UK, they are under threat. The combination of Trump and Brexit

:17:43. > :17:49.scares them. They want to keep the institutions strong. They also want

:17:50. > :17:54.to keep Britain. That is the one strong card we have, contributing to

:17:55. > :17:59.security. We know we won't be members of the single market, that

:18:00. > :18:04.was in the White Paper. The situation of the customs union is

:18:05. > :18:10.more complicated I would suggest. Does that have cost? If we can be a

:18:11. > :18:15.little bit pregnant in the customs union, does that come with a price

:18:16. > :18:20.ticket? We have got some clarity on the customs union, the Prime

:18:21. > :18:25.Minister said we would not be part of the... We would be able to do our

:18:26. > :18:29.own trade deals outside the EU customs union, and also not be part

:18:30. > :18:33.of the common external tariff. She said she is willing to look at other

:18:34. > :18:36.options and we don't know what that will be so as a think tank we are

:18:37. > :18:39.looking at this over the next few weeks and coming up with

:18:40. > :18:43.recommendations for the Government and looking at how existing

:18:44. > :18:48.boundaries between the EU customs union and other states work in

:18:49. > :18:52.practice. For example between Switzerland and the EU border,

:18:53. > :18:57.Norway and Switzerland, and the UK and Canada. We will want is a

:18:58. > :19:04.country the freedom to do our own free trade deals, that seems to be

:19:05. > :19:09.quite high up there, and to change our external tariffs to the rest of

:19:10. > :19:14.the world. If that's the case, we do seem to be wanting our cake and

:19:15. > :19:18.eating it in the customs union. Talking to some people in London, it

:19:19. > :19:23.is quite clear we are leaving the essentials of the customs union, the

:19:24. > :19:28.tariff, so even if we can minimise controls at the border by having

:19:29. > :19:31.mutual recognition agreements, so we recognise each other's standards,

:19:32. > :19:36.but there will still have to be checks for things like rules of

:19:37. > :19:39.origin and tariffs if tariffs apply, which is a problem for the Irish

:19:40. > :19:43.because nobody has worked out how you can avoid having some sort of

:19:44. > :19:47.customs control on the border between Northern Ireland and the

:19:48. > :19:51.South once we are out of the customs union. I think it's important we

:19:52. > :19:57.don't look at this too much as one side has to win and one side has to

:19:58. > :20:01.lose scenario. We can find ways. My Broadview is what we get out of the

:20:02. > :20:03.negotiation will depend on politics more than economic reality. Economic

:20:04. > :20:21.reality is strong, there's a good case for a trade deal on the

:20:22. > :20:23.solution on the customs deal, but Britain will need to come up with a

:20:24. > :20:26.positive case for our relationship and keep making that case. If it

:20:27. > :20:29.turns out the Government thinks the bill is too high, that we can't

:20:30. > :20:32.really get the free trade deal done in time and it's left hanging in the

:20:33. > :20:35.wind, what are the chances, how I as things stand now that we end up

:20:36. > :20:39.crashing out? I'd say there's a 30% chance that we don't get the free

:20:40. > :20:45.trade agreement at the end of it that Mrs May is aiming for. The very

:20:46. > :20:49.hard crash is you don't even do an Article 50 divorce settlement from

:20:50. > :20:53.you go straight to World Trade Organisation rules. The less hard

:20:54. > :20:57.crash is doing the divorce settlement and transitional

:20:58. > :21:02.arrangements would require European Court of Justice arrangements. We

:21:03. > :21:04.will leave it there. Thank you, both.

:21:05. > :21:06.Donald Trump's flagship policy of extreme vetting of immigrants

:21:07. > :21:08.and a temporary travel ban for citizens of seven mainly-muslim

:21:09. > :21:10.countries was stopped in its tracks this weekend.

:21:11. > :21:14.On Friday a judge ruled the ban should be lifted and that it

:21:15. > :21:19.That prompted President Trump to fire off a series of tweets

:21:20. > :21:21.criticising what he says was a terrible decision

:21:22. > :21:23.by a so-called judge, as he ordered the State Department

:21:24. > :21:31.Now the federal appeals court has rejected his request to reinstate

:21:32. > :21:43.the ban until it hears the case in full.

:21:44. > :21:47.Well yesterday I spoke to Sebastian Gorka, Deputy Assistant

:21:48. > :21:51.I asked him if the confusion over the travel ban

:21:52. > :21:53.was a sign that the President's two-week-old administration

:21:54. > :22:06.There is no chaos, you really shouldn't believe the spin, the

:22:07. > :22:11.facts speak for themselves. 109 people on Saturday were mildly

:22:12. > :22:17.inconvenienced by having their entry into the United States delayed out

:22:18. > :22:26.of 325,000. So let's not get carried away with the left-wing media bias

:22:27. > :22:31.and spin. Hold on, 60,000 - 90,000 people with visas, their visas are

:22:32. > :22:34.no longer valid. That's another issue. You need to listen to what

:22:35. > :22:41.I'm saying. The people who entered on the day of the executive order

:22:42. > :22:48.being implemented worth 109 people out of 325. Whether people won't

:22:49. > :22:56.travelling to America were affected is another matter, so there is no

:22:57. > :23:02.chaos to comment on. Following Iran's latest missile tests,

:23:03. > :23:07.National Security adviser Flint said the US was "Putting Iran on notice",

:23:08. > :23:10.what does that mean? It means we have a new president and we are not

:23:11. > :23:16.going to facilitate the rise of one of the most dangerous nations in the

:23:17. > :23:25.world. We are jettisoning this naive and dangerous policy of the Obama

:23:26. > :23:28.Administration to try and make the Shi'ite dictatorial democracy some

:23:29. > :23:32.kind of counter balance to extremist Sunni groups in the region and that

:23:33. > :23:36.they cannot continue to behave in the way they have behaved for the

:23:37. > :23:42.last 30 years. It is a very simple message. So are there any

:23:43. > :23:49.multilateral alliances that Mr Trump would like to strengthen?

:23:50. > :23:52.Absolutely. If we are looking at the region, if you listen to what

:23:53. > :23:57.President Trump has said and specifically to also the speeches of

:23:58. > :24:02.general Flint, his national security adviser, we are incredibly vested in

:24:03. > :24:09.seeing our Sunni allies in the region come together in a real

:24:10. > :24:15.coalition. The so-called vaunted 66 nation coalition that was created

:24:16. > :24:19.under the Obama administration... There was no coalition. But we want

:24:20. > :24:27.to help our Sunni allies, especially the Egyptians, the Jordanians, come

:24:28. > :24:33.together in a real partnership to take the fight to ISIS and groups

:24:34. > :24:38.like Al-Qaeda. But there is not a formal multilateral alliance with

:24:39. > :24:42.these countries. Which of the existing, formal multilateral

:24:43. > :24:47.alliances does Mr Trump wants to strengthen? If you are specifically

:24:48. > :24:51.talking about Nato, it is clear that we are committed to Nato but we wish

:24:52. > :24:55.to see a more equitable burden sharing among the nations that are

:24:56. > :24:59.simply not spending enough on their own defence so the gentleman 's

:25:00. > :25:03.agreement of 2% of GDP has to be stuck to, unlike the, I think it's

:25:04. > :25:08.only Six Nations that reach the standard today out of almost 30. So

:25:09. > :25:20.he does want to strengthen Nato then? Absolutely, he believes Nato

:25:21. > :25:25.is the most successful military alliances. You mustn't believe the

:25:26. > :25:30.spin and hype. EU leaders now see the Trump administration as a threat

:25:31. > :25:36.up there with Russia, China, terrorism. What's your response to

:25:37. > :25:42.that? I have to laugh. The idea that the nation that came to the

:25:43. > :25:49.salvation of Europe twice in the 20th century hummer in World War I

:25:50. > :26:00.and World War II, was central to the defeat of the totalitarian... It is

:26:01. > :26:04.not even worth commenting on. Would it matter to the Trump

:26:05. > :26:07.administration if the European Union broke up? The United States is very

:26:08. > :26:15.interested in the best relations possible with all the nations of the

:26:16. > :26:20.EU am a whether the European union wishes to stay together or not is up

:26:21. > :26:26.to the nations of the European Union. I understand that but I was

:26:27. > :26:30.wondering what the US view would be. Until Mr Trump, EU foreign policy

:26:31. > :26:34.was quite consistent in wanting to see the EU survive, prosper and even

:26:35. > :26:38.become more integrated. Now that doesn't seem to be the case, so

:26:39. > :26:44.would it matter to the Trump administration if the EU broke up? I

:26:45. > :26:47.will say yet again, it is in the interests of the United States to

:26:48. > :26:51.have the best relations possible with our European allies, and

:26:52. > :26:55.whether that is in the formation of the EU or if the EU by itself

:26:56. > :27:00.suffers some kind of internal issues, that's up to the European

:27:01. > :27:05.nations and not something we will comment on. Listening to that

:27:06. > :27:09.answer, it would seem as if this particular president's preference is

:27:10. > :27:15.to deal with individual nation states rather than multilateral

:27:16. > :27:22.institutions. Is that fair? I don't think so. There's never been an

:27:23. > :27:26.unequivocal statement by that effect by the statement. Does he share the

:27:27. > :27:31.opinion of Stephen Bannon that the 21st century should see a return to

:27:32. > :27:37.nation states rather than growing existing multilateral ways? I think

:27:38. > :27:40.it is fair to say that we have problems with political elites that

:27:41. > :27:45.don't take the interests of the populations they represent into

:27:46. > :27:51.account. That's why Brexit happened. I think that's why Mr Trump became

:27:52. > :27:55.President Trump. This is the connected phenomena. You are

:27:56. > :27:59.obsessing about institutions, it is not about institutions, it's about

:28:00. > :28:04.the health of democracy and whether political elites do what is in the

:28:05. > :28:06.interests of the people they represent. Given the

:28:07. > :28:09.unpredictability of the new president, you never really know

:28:10. > :28:14.what he's going to do next, would it be wise for the British Prime

:28:15. > :28:22.Minister to hitch her wagon to his star? This is really churlish

:28:23. > :28:25.questioning. Come on, you don't know what he's going to do next, listen

:28:26. > :28:31.to what he says because he does what he's going to say. I know this may

:28:32. > :28:34.be shocking to some reporters, but look at his campaign promises, and

:28:35. > :28:41.the fact that in the last 15 days we have executed every single one that

:28:42. > :28:45.we could in the time permissible so there is nothing unpredictable about

:28:46. > :28:51.Donald Trump as president. OK then, if we do know what he's going to do

:28:52. > :28:56.next, what is he going to do next? Continue to make good on his

:28:57. > :29:02.election promises, to make America great again, to make the economy are

:29:03. > :29:06.flourishing economy, and most important of all from your

:29:07. > :29:11.perspective in the UK, to be the best friend possible to our friends

:29:12. > :29:17.and the worst enemy to our enemies. It is an old Marine Corps phrase and

:29:18. > :29:24.we tend to live by it. Thank you for your time, we will leave it there.

:29:25. > :29:31.Doctor Gorka, making it clear this administration won't spend political

:29:32. > :29:33.capital on trying to keep the European Union together, a watershed

:29:34. > :29:35.change in American foreign policy. Theresa May has made a big deal out

:29:36. > :29:38.of her commitment to help people on middle incomes who are "just

:29:39. > :29:41.about managing", and early this week we should get a good sense

:29:42. > :29:44.of what that means in practice - when plans to bring down the cost

:29:45. > :29:47.of housing and protect renters are published in the Government's

:29:48. > :29:49.new white paper. The paper is expected to introduce

:29:50. > :29:52.new rules on building Communities Secretary Sajid Javid

:29:53. > :29:57.has previously said politicians should not stand in the way

:29:58. > :30:00.of development, provided all options Also rumoured are new measures

:30:01. > :30:05.to speed up building the 1 million new homes the Government promised

:30:06. > :30:07.to build by 2020, including imposing five-year quotas

:30:08. > :30:11.on reluctant councils. Reports suggest there will be

:30:12. > :30:13.relaxation of building height restrictions,

:30:14. > :30:15.allowing home owners and developers to build to the height

:30:16. > :30:17.of the tallest building on the block without needing to seek

:30:18. > :30:23.planning permission. Other elements trialled include

:30:24. > :30:27.new measures to stop developers sitting on parcels of land

:30:28. > :30:29.without building homes, land banking, and moving railway

:30:30. > :30:31.station car parks Underground, The Government today said it

:30:32. > :30:40.will amend planning rules so more homes can be built specifically

:30:41. > :30:43.to be rented out through longer term tenancies, to provide more stability

:30:44. > :30:45.for young families, alongside its proposed ban

:30:46. > :30:52.on letting agent fees. And the Housing Minister,

:30:53. > :31:02.Gavin Barwell, joins me now. Welcome to the programme. Home

:31:03. > :31:05.ownership is now beyond the reach of most young people. You are now

:31:06. > :31:10.emphasising affordable homes for rent. Why have you given up on the

:31:11. > :31:13.Tory dream of a property owning democracy? We haven't given up on

:31:14. > :31:18.that. The decline on home ownership in this country started in 2004. So

:31:19. > :31:21.far we have stopped that decline, we haven't reversed it but we

:31:22. > :31:27.absolutely want to make sure that people who want to own and can do

:31:28. > :31:29.so. The Prime Minister was very clear a country that works for

:31:30. > :31:33.everyone. That means we have to have say something to say to those who

:31:34. > :31:38.want to rent as well as on. Home ownership of young people is 35%,

:31:39. > :31:42.used to be 60%. Are you telling me during the lifetime of this

:31:43. > :31:47.government that is going to rise? We want to reverse the decline. We have

:31:48. > :31:51.stabilised it. The decline started in 2004 under Labour. They weren't

:31:52. > :31:56.bothered about it. We have taken action and that has stop the

:31:57. > :32:00.decline... What about the rise? We have to make sure people work hard

:32:01. > :32:03.the right thing have the chance to own their home on home. We have

:32:04. > :32:08.helped people through help to buy, shared ownership, that is part of

:32:09. > :32:12.it, but we have to have something to say to those who want to rent. You

:32:13. > :32:18.say you want more rented homes so why did you introduce a 3%

:32:19. > :32:21.additional stamp duty levied to pay those investing in build to rent

:32:22. > :32:25.properties? That was basically to try and stop a lot of the

:32:26. > :32:29.speculation in the buy to let market. The Bank of England raised

:32:30. > :32:34.concerns about that. When you see the white paper, you will see there

:32:35. > :32:41.is a package of measures for Bill to rent, trying to get institutional

:32:42. > :32:44.investment for that, different to people going and buying a home on

:32:45. > :32:49.the private market and renting out. You are trying to get institutional

:32:50. > :32:52.money to comment, just as this government and subsequent ones

:32:53. > :32:55.before said it would get pension fund money to invest in

:32:56. > :32:59.infrastructure and it never happened. Why should this happen? Is

:33:00. > :33:02.already starting to happen. If you go around the country you can see

:33:03. > :33:07.some of these builder rent scheme is happening. There are changes in the

:33:08. > :33:18.White Paper... How much money from institutions is going into bill to

:33:19. > :33:20.rent modular hundreds of millions. I was at the stock exchange the other

:33:21. > :33:23.day celebrating the launch of one of our bombs designed to get this money

:33:24. > :33:26.on. There are schemes being... There is huge potential to expand it. We

:33:27. > :33:29.need more homes and we are too dependent on a small number of large

:33:30. > :33:36.developers. -- to launch one of our bonds. You talk about affordable

:33:37. > :33:42.renting, what is affordable? Defined as something that is at least 20%

:33:43. > :33:45.below the market price. It will vary around the country. Let me put it

:33:46. > :33:50.another way. The average couple renting now have to spend 50% of

:33:51. > :33:54.their income on rent. Is that affordable? That is exactly what

:33:55. > :33:57.we're trying to do something about. Whether you're trying to buy or

:33:58. > :34:01.rent, housing in this country has become less and less affordable

:34:02. > :34:04.because the 30-40 years governments haven't built in times. This white

:34:05. > :34:09.Paper is trying to do something about that. You have been in power

:34:10. > :34:17.six, almost seven years. That's right. Why are ownership of new

:34:18. > :34:20.homes to 24 year low? It was a low figure because it's a new five-year

:34:21. > :34:24.programme. That is not a great excuse. It's not an excuse at all.

:34:25. > :34:27.The way these things work, you have a five-year programme and in the

:34:28. > :34:31.last year you have a record number of delivery and when you start a new

:34:32. > :34:35.programme, a lower level. If you look at the average over six years,

:34:36. > :34:41.this government has built more affordable housing than the previous

:34:42. > :34:47.one. Stiletto 24 year loss, that is an embarrassment. Yes. We have the

:34:48. > :34:50.figures, last year was 32,000, the year before 60 6000. You get this

:34:51. > :34:55.cliff edge effect. It is embarrassing and we want to stop it

:34:56. > :34:59.happening in the future. You want to give tenants more secure and longer

:35:00. > :35:06.leases which rent rises are predictable in advance. Ed Miliband

:35:07. > :35:10.promoted three-year tenancies in the 2015 general election campaign and

:35:11. > :35:15.George Osborne said it was totally economically illiterate. What's

:35:16. > :35:20.changed? You are merging control of the rents people in charge, which

:35:21. > :35:24.we're not imposing. We want longer term tenancies. Most people have

:35:25. > :35:29.six-month tenancies... Within that there would be a control on how much

:35:30. > :35:33.the rent could go up? Right? It would be set for the period of the

:35:34. > :35:37.tenancies. That's what I just said, that's what Ed Miliband proposed. Ed

:35:38. > :35:42.Miliband proposed regulating it for the whole sector. One of the reasons

:35:43. > :35:46.institutional investment is so attractive, if you had a spare home

:35:47. > :35:51.and you want to rent out, you might need it any year, so you give it a

:35:52. > :35:56.short tenancy. If you have a block, they are interested in a long-term

:35:57. > :36:03.return and give families more security. You have set a target,

:36:04. > :36:06.your government, to build in the life of this parliament 1 million

:36:07. > :36:14.new homes in England by 2020. You're not going to make that? I think we

:36:15. > :36:17.are. If you look at 2015-16 we had 190,000 additional homes of this

:36:18. > :36:25.country. Just below the level we need to achieve. Over five...

:36:26. > :36:31.2015-16. You were probably looking at the new homes built. Talking

:36:32. > :36:34.about completions in England. That is not the best measure, with

:36:35. > :36:40.respect. You said you will complete 1 million homes by 2020 so what is

:36:41. > :36:44.wrong with it? We use a national statistic which looks at new homes

:36:45. > :36:46.built and conversions and changes of use minus demolitions. The total

:36:47. > :36:53.change of the housing stock over that year. On that basis I have the

:36:54. > :36:57.figures here. I have the figures. You looking I just completed. 1

:36:58. > :37:02.million new homes, the average rate of those built in the last three

:37:03. > :37:07.quarters was 30 6000. You have 14 more quarters to get to the 1

:37:08. > :37:11.million. You have to raise that to 50 6000. I put it to you, you won't

:37:12. > :37:16.do it. You're not looking at the full picture of new housing in this

:37:17. > :37:20.country. You're looking at brand-new homes and not including conversions

:37:21. > :37:25.or changes of use are not taking off, which we should, demolitions.

:37:26. > :37:31.If you look at the National statistic net additions, in 2015-16,

:37:32. > :37:35.100 and 90,000 new homes. We are behind schedule. -- 190,000. I am

:37:36. > :37:40.confident with the measures in the White Paper we can achieve that. It

:37:41. > :37:44.is not just about the national total, we need to build these homes

:37:45. > :37:50.are the right places. Will the green belt remain sacrosanct after the

:37:51. > :37:53.white paper? Not proposing to change the existing protections that there

:37:54. > :37:58.for green belts. What planning policy says is councils can remove

:37:59. > :38:00.land from green belts but only in exceptional circumstances and should

:38:01. > :38:07.look at at all the circumstances before doing that. No change? No. We

:38:08. > :38:13.have a manifesto commitment. You still think you will get 1 million

:38:14. > :38:17.homes? The green belt is only 15%. This idea we can only fix our broken

:38:18. > :38:20.housing market by taking huge swathes of land out of the green

:38:21. > :38:23.belt is not true. We will leave it there, thank you for joining us,

:38:24. > :38:25.Gavin Barwell. It is coming up to 11.40.

:38:26. > :38:27.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now

:38:28. > :38:38.Coming up here in 20 minutes, the Week Ahead...

:38:39. > :38:44.Coming up later, could a new train line between London and Brighton be

:38:45. > :38:49.the solution for long-suffering passengers and overcrowded trains?

:38:50. > :38:53.Or is it a pipe dream that will just hit the buffers?

:38:54. > :38:55.Joining me in the studio today at the Conservative MP

:38:56. > :38:57.for Lewes, Maria Caulfield, and Anneliese Dodds,

:38:58. > :39:04.We are going to start with the Southern Rail

:39:05. > :39:08.dispute, which finally had a breakthrough on Thursday.

:39:09. > :39:13.A deal between the drivers union Aslef and the rail operator.

:39:14. > :39:14.But the misery for Southern passengers isn't over.

:39:15. > :39:17.Talks with the RMT Union are expected to take place next week.

:39:18. > :39:21.Maria, I know your constituents have been particularly affected

:39:22. > :39:24.by the chaos on Southern over the last year as so.

:39:25. > :39:27.Do you think that deal with Aslef makes it more or less likely that

:39:28. > :39:29.a deal can be reached for the RMT Union now?

:39:30. > :39:31.And think it's probably more likely because,

:39:32. > :39:35.once the Aslef union have got the issues resolved,

:39:36. > :39:38.it put pressure on the RMT to get theirs because it's the only

:39:39. > :39:43.outstanding problem now in this dispute.

:39:44. > :39:46.So we are saying to both, we are pleased that the RMT

:39:47. > :39:48.and Southern are getting background the table because it was

:39:49. > :39:53.the TUC talks that really broke through the deal.

:39:54. > :39:56.Strike action doesn't resolve any of the issues or general

:39:57. > :40:00.So I am pleased they are background the table for talks next week.

:40:01. > :40:02.It could make things better, but on the other hand,

:40:03. > :40:05.the RMT dispute has been more long-running, it could be argued

:40:06. > :40:07.as more intractable, and if anything, the RMT Union might

:40:08. > :40:12.feel more angered by the fact that Aslef done a deal

:40:13. > :40:18.There is a risk there, but I think, given the changeovers and the Aslef

:40:19. > :40:21.union have come to a deal in terms of their concerns around driver

:40:22. > :40:23.only operated trains, I think it makes it more likely

:40:24. > :40:26.that the RMT and the on-board supervisors and the conductors

:40:27. > :40:30.They have some concerns, genuine concerns, but the only way

:40:31. > :40:33.to address those is round the table with talks and not by striking.

:40:34. > :40:37.Anneliese, this does rather vindicate the Government's position

:40:38. > :40:39.throughout this dispute which is they didn't

:40:40. > :40:41.want to get involved, that this should be sorted out away

:40:42. > :40:48.Actually, the Government sets the whole frame that's led to this

:40:49. > :40:51.dispute in the first place so they really can't say they don't

:40:52. > :40:56.I have heard time and again people from the Government saying this

:40:57. > :41:00.There is nothing behind it so I'm really pleased there are people

:41:01. > :41:01.acknowledging there are some genuine concerns there.

:41:02. > :41:03.Really, those have got to be dealt with, particularly

:41:04. > :41:08.You know, you do have issues around safety,

:41:09. > :41:10.with trains without guards, trains without conductors,

:41:11. > :41:13.if you have also people trying to get on with a wheelchair

:41:14. > :41:21.We can take there are lots of gems that operate like that,

:41:22. > :41:24.but do we need to make all the rest of them poor quality?

:41:25. > :41:27.Shouldn't we try to have a train service for the 21st century?

:41:28. > :41:30.I am pleased to hear people acknowledging their having

:41:31. > :41:31.problems and that this wasn't just ideological.

:41:32. > :41:34.Even if all of the disputes are ended, though, you yourself

:41:35. > :41:36.said in the Commons, you dread the return

:41:37. > :41:40.Many of your constituents will take, well, actually, things were easier

:41:41. > :41:42.during the strike because we knew which trains were running

:41:43. > :41:45.On an ordinary day, the service doesn't work anyway?

:41:46. > :41:49.A return to normal service is not necessarily a cause for celebration

:41:50. > :41:52.because we've had one of the worst - the worst performing -

:41:53. > :41:56.We are performing in terms of trains on time in the 60s.

:41:57. > :41:59.60% compared to most other rail operators in the high 90s.

:42:00. > :42:01.Since the dispute has been halted, we have seen

:42:02. > :42:04.That is not good enough but an improvement.

:42:05. > :42:07.I am absolutely going to be holding Southern's feet to the fire to make

:42:08. > :42:13.sure that their next and only priority is delivering performance.

:42:14. > :42:15.OK, well, one solution to the problems on Southern

:42:16. > :42:18.being put forward by Maria and a group of fellow MPs is to open

:42:19. > :42:21.a whole new line through Sussex and Kent which would connect

:42:22. > :42:23.Brighton with Uckfield, Tunbridge Wells and the city.

:42:24. > :42:26.The group behind it say they have a consortium of private

:42:27. > :42:29.investors ready to fund the ?6 billion project

:42:30. > :42:32.and they claim it would relieve congestion on the existing

:42:33. > :42:55.Which is used by 60,000 passengers per hour at peak times.

:42:56. > :42:57.Platform 2 for the 1454 service to London Victoria.

:42:58. > :43:00.More of us than ever before are travelling by train.

:43:01. > :43:02.But this is the daily reality for commuters

:43:03. > :43:04.using the Brighton mainline, one of the UK's busiest

:43:05. > :43:11.commuter routes dubbed the most delayed in Britain.

:43:12. > :43:14.This extraordinary viaduct across the River Ouse was built

:43:15. > :43:17.by the Victorians and it still carries the existing

:43:18. > :43:25.But for decades, there has been talk about building an alternative route

:43:26. > :43:32.To ease the burden on the overstretched system.

:43:33. > :43:35.And this week, Sussex MPs and a private consortium

:43:36. > :43:43.of private investors met the Transport Secretary to set up

:43:44. > :43:46.a ?6 billion scheme that they say could finally make it happen.

:43:47. > :43:49.The new mainline would connect Brighton through Lewes to Uckfield

:43:50. > :43:54.and continue through Sussex to a newly reinstated

:43:55. > :43:56.Tunbridge Wells West station and finally through Surrey

:43:57. > :43:59.with a major interchange at Croydon and then to Canary Wharf

:44:00. > :44:07.This is an important project but, at ?6 billion, it costs a lot and it

:44:08. > :44:10.has to be put into a programme with Government money behind it

:44:11. > :44:17.Part of the plan would reinstate a Lewes to Uckfield line.

:44:18. > :44:27.The old track bed is now used as a foot path.

:44:28. > :44:30.I think it is extremely welcome that we have some serious investors

:44:31. > :44:37.It has always been a case of having the resources to drive forward

:44:38. > :44:41.a proposition which has huge public and political support.

:44:42. > :44:43.It would work wonders for the economic hub

:44:44. > :44:45.which is Brighton, reconnect all kinds of places

:44:46. > :44:56.The former MP for Lewes, Norman Baker, was also a Rail Minister.

:44:57. > :44:59.He campaigned to reinstate the Uckfield to Lewes line

:45:00. > :45:03.when he was in Parliament and says plans for a second Brighton mainline

:45:04. > :45:07.No Government is going to invest ?6 billion in this particular scheme.

:45:08. > :45:16.It wouldn't add up in cost benefit terms.

:45:17. > :45:19.So if we have to get this delivered, it has to be delivered very

:45:20. > :45:23.economically and that means the cheapest option possible.

:45:24. > :45:25.That means reinstating Lewes to Uckfield and connecting the two

:45:26. > :45:31.And also providing alternative capacity for the South Coast

:45:32. > :45:35.That is the obvious thing to do rather than investing on these cloud

:45:36. > :45:39.cuckoo schemes that will never get off the ground.

:45:40. > :45:41.But the current Lewes MP, Maria Calfield, said

:45:42. > :45:44.this week was my meeting with the Transport Secretary was

:45:45. > :45:47.So is there a genuine appetite now from the Government

:45:48. > :45:52.Or is this just another idea that will hit the buffers?

:45:53. > :45:54.It sounds wonderful, Maria, but you have so many

:45:55. > :46:01.Not just the physical ones in building the line

:46:02. > :46:05.I guess the biggest problem here is that there seems

:46:06. > :46:08.to be little enthusiasm from the Government for this project

:46:09. > :46:12.because the idea has been around for a long time.

:46:13. > :46:14.I think the former transport minister had little enthusiasm

:46:15. > :46:17.for it, but I don't think that is the position

:46:18. > :46:27.We met with the Brighton mainline 2 group this week,

:46:28. > :46:31.The key priority for the Government investment in terms of investment

:46:32. > :46:34.and improvement is the current mainline because it has been

:46:35. > :46:40.It is exciting that we have private investors who are keen

:46:41. > :46:43.to deliver the money but also to project manage it.

:46:44. > :46:45.If there isn't the capacity in Network Rail for example

:46:46. > :46:48.to deliver this, which I don't think there is, there is another

:46:49. > :46:52.That is the first time we have seen this.

:46:53. > :46:54.Before it happens, we need this feasibility study which was first

:46:55. > :46:57.instigated by the last Chancellor, George Osborne, two years ago.

:46:58. > :46:59.That was supposed to be delivered at the end of 2015,

:47:00. > :47:07.It has been on Chris Grayling's desk since he started on the job.

:47:08. > :47:10.If you was keen, we would have heard about it by now,

:47:11. > :47:13.The feasibility study has happened and you are right,

:47:14. > :47:17.The work it shows is that there is a huge amount of investment

:47:18. > :47:21.The current priority is the existing mainline because we all know that

:47:22. > :47:24.50% of the delays on the current line are due to

:47:25. > :47:32.That is why to take this on to the next stage and do

:47:33. > :47:36.an in-depth study we need the BML 2 team to carry this out.

:47:37. > :47:38.That is something they are considering.

:47:39. > :47:40.Before I bring in Anneliese, there have been many

:47:41. > :47:43.Feasibility studies looking at reopening a version of the

:47:44. > :47:48.Lewes to Uckfield line which have resulted in anything.

:47:49. > :47:55.The Department for Transport said it self not that long ago that the key

:47:56. > :47:56.challenge is significant construction costs, local demand

:47:57. > :48:00.As Norman Baker said, this is a fantasy.

:48:01. > :48:06.It might sound nice to constituents, but actually it is misleading

:48:07. > :48:09.to pretend that this is actually going to become a reality.

:48:10. > :48:12.We are not just looking at the Lewes to Uckfield line.

:48:13. > :48:16.The studies we have done in the past have just looked at Lewes.

:48:17. > :48:19.Lewes to Uckfield and you are right, that doesn't up financially

:48:20. > :48:22.or for any of the benefit indicators you normally look at.

:48:23. > :48:24.We are looking at the second rail line.

:48:25. > :48:29.Going into Canary Wharf, there is businesses in that part

:48:30. > :48:32.of London that are very keen to see that whole stretch to Uckfield

:48:33. > :48:35.and Kent coming down to Sussex, putting towns like Seaford

:48:36. > :48:38.and New Haven on the main line so no longer the poor

:48:39. > :48:41.We are not just looking at Lewes to Uckfield.

:48:42. > :48:44.That is needed, but it is only a small part of what is needed.

:48:45. > :48:49.If Maria can achieve this, with a consortium and her

:48:50. > :48:56.MPs, Anneliese, this is the going

:48:57. > :48:59.to connect parts of the South East that have had nothing in terms

:49:00. > :49:04.It would be very positive if we could have that kind of link

:49:05. > :49:09.But the problem, as you mentioned with getting studies published,

:49:10. > :49:13.we have at this pattern of delay and delay when it comes

:49:14. > :49:15.to Government looking at strategic transport issues in the SE.

:49:16. > :49:18.We were promised that we would have ever London and South Coast rail

:49:19. > :49:22.We have a new Prime Minister and Chancellor.

:49:23. > :49:25.As Peter Kyle says, the Labour MP for Hove, we still don't have

:49:26. > :49:28.Yes, it would be very helpful to have the rail line,

:49:29. > :49:32.but please can we have a more holistic look at all the transport

:49:33. > :49:36.If you take a wider look at the South East as a whole,

:49:37. > :49:39.it is interesting that the director of transport at the East Sussex

:49:40. > :49:42.County Council says he thinks that you would get more bang

:49:43. > :49:44.for your buck if you electrify the line between Hastings

:49:45. > :49:46.and Ashford, which would give you another alternative connection

:49:47. > :49:50.I'm not going to get in the game of playing different

:49:51. > :49:54.When you have limited money, you have to make

:49:55. > :49:58.If that line with actually deliver capacity

:49:59. > :50:03.in another part of the region, might that be a better idea?

:50:04. > :50:06.I think what would be the best idea is the Government, exactly,

:50:07. > :50:12.They say they are doing that with the North,

:50:13. > :50:20.We don't have rail South, and that I believe the council

:50:21. > :50:24.We don't have any holistic look at all of our transport

:50:25. > :50:28.We are waiting for it, we have been promised

:50:29. > :50:30.by the Government for years that we will have this London

:50:31. > :50:35.and South Coast study, and it hasn't been produced.

:50:36. > :50:38.Connecting people would be great, but please, can we push

:50:39. > :50:40.the Government to get a grip on the connections

:50:41. > :50:44.People will be listening to this and watching this, thinking,

:50:45. > :50:46.if they are based in Kent, what about the connections

:50:47. > :50:48.from Dover, what about the freight issues?

:50:49. > :50:54.I agree that these to be a more strategic look that hasn't

:50:55. > :50:56.We are now suffering the consequences of that.

:50:57. > :50:59.The difference between this scheme is that this has been driven

:51:00. > :51:05.by a consortium of people that just that the money in.

:51:06. > :51:07.The ?6 to ?9 billion that this will cost.

:51:08. > :51:09.They will also project manage this and be independent

:51:10. > :51:17.You met Chris Grayling the Transport Secretary last week.

:51:18. > :51:20.Can you give is any idea of where we are?

:51:21. > :51:23.He is keen to see this happen, but there needs to be further

:51:24. > :51:26.work to make sure that, one, the finances stack up.

:51:27. > :51:28.The last thing we want to do is start a programme

:51:29. > :51:31.is the finances don't stack up and it doesn't happen.

:51:32. > :51:34.There is some complex engineering to happen.

:51:35. > :51:37.This needs to be done to make sure it is feasible

:51:38. > :51:44.Hospitals in the South East depend on staff from outside

:51:45. > :51:49.the UK to run their wards and care for patients.

:51:50. > :51:51.Those staff include professionals from the European Union.

:51:52. > :51:53.As MPs voted this week to trigger Article 50,

:51:54. > :52:00.the formal process to be the EU, the question of what happened

:52:01. > :52:03.to those staff in the future and the effect Brexit will have

:52:04. > :52:08.New figures compiled by BBC radio Kent show that the majority

:52:09. > :52:11.of hospital trusts in the South East are choosing to recruit

:52:12. > :52:13.people from overseas to cope with our shortages.

:52:14. > :52:15.In response to a Freedom of Information request,

:52:16. > :52:18.the BBC found that this apply to ten out of the 12 NHS

:52:19. > :52:25.and Midwifery Council which shows a sharp decline in the number

:52:26. > :52:27.of nurses registering to work in the UK.

:52:28. > :52:30.Last July, more than 1000 EU nurses registered to work in this country.

:52:31. > :52:40.Joining us now is Hamza Omir, who is a nurse.

:52:41. > :52:43.And the South East officer for the Royal College of Nursing.

:52:44. > :52:47.You speak to staff working in the NHS.

:52:48. > :52:52.What is the mood among EU nationals since the Brexit vote?

:52:53. > :52:54.I think they have become more anxious.

:52:55. > :52:56.They are uncertain about what will happen.

:52:57. > :52:59.The people here have to cope with having to leave their job

:53:00. > :53:04.Leaving their family, the country, to move to another country to work.

:53:05. > :53:06.If they come here, there is uncertainty about the future.

:53:07. > :53:13.There is a certain amount of challenges to face.

:53:14. > :53:19.That is why the figure that you have from the nursing

:53:20. > :53:23.As well as the decrease in terms of the number

:53:24. > :53:25.that we have an increase in number leaving off the register

:53:26. > :53:34.For example, the language test introduced at the same time

:53:35. > :53:39.It is not completely all due to the Brexit issue.

:53:40. > :53:48.If you look at the figures, it was still going up into July.

:53:49. > :53:51.The language test, when I have spoken to people, what tends

:53:52. > :53:54.to happen is that it slows the process.

:53:55. > :53:57.But all the big trusts provide support, the big trust, in terms

:53:58. > :54:04.Even the NMC has become more flexible.

:54:05. > :54:07.People can retake part of the tests if they haven't got through.

:54:08. > :54:09.The language test is going the process but not

:54:10. > :54:12.What would you like to hear from the Government?

:54:13. > :54:16.What we would like is greater certainty about these people.

:54:17. > :54:18.If they are moving across, they can see in the short

:54:19. > :54:26.and long-term positions whether they have a future here.

:54:27. > :54:29.To give him credit, the Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt,

:54:30. > :54:33.He told the select committee recently we want to start in the EU

:54:34. > :54:36.to continue to work on NHS when we leave the European Union.

:54:37. > :54:40.And he says we are confident we can negotiate that.

:54:41. > :54:43.All that is empty words to be honest until the Government actually

:54:44. > :54:45.guarantees the position of EU people already here.

:54:46. > :54:50.We were told by many Leave campaigners that we wouldn't

:54:51. > :54:53.have a situation where those EU workers already here

:54:54. > :54:58.The Government has decided not to give that assurance.

:54:59. > :55:03.I think this should and could give that assurance and get

:55:04. > :55:06.lots of countries to say they would let Brits

:55:07. > :55:11.They have decided not to. I don't know why.

:55:12. > :55:13.It would be simple administrative process, instead we have

:55:14. > :55:17.It is affecting the NHS and other public services as well.

:55:18. > :55:19.Ultimately, it could end up costing our NHS money

:55:20. > :55:26.Maria Caulfield is not only a nurse, you are a Leave campaigner

:55:27. > :55:33.We already have a shortage in the NHS as you know.

:55:34. > :55:36.If numbers are applying to work down numbers leaving

:55:37. > :55:38.the nursing register are up, we are facing

:55:39. > :55:49.There is no guarantee around European health care professionals

:55:50. > :55:55.If the future is not certain, they will either go back to the EU

:55:56. > :55:59.One of the recommendations we made on the select committee

:56:00. > :56:02.when we heard evidence is that we should be giving

:56:03. > :56:06.certainty to EU citizens here who are working.

:56:07. > :56:12.Theresa May give that assurance at prime ministers questions this

:56:13. > :56:19.week was that she has been in talks with the other 27 member states.

:56:20. > :56:22.They are not doing rear steward if they are leaving in large numbers?

:56:23. > :56:24.The trouble is, she can't officially make it our policy

:56:25. > :56:27.because what she wants to do is get reassurance for the addition

:56:28. > :56:29.of this is leaving in -- living in the EU from

:56:30. > :56:33.They won't give that, particularly Germany won't give that.

:56:34. > :56:35.She has to have the interests of British citizens in mind

:56:36. > :56:39.Sorry, Maria, but by taking the position that she is,

:56:40. > :56:41.she is endangering our British citizens in other countries.

:56:42. > :56:44.If she says she would guarantee the position of EU residents here...

:56:45. > :56:50.She has said that she will only do it if other countries follow suit.

:56:51. > :56:54.Is there a danger that enraged after -- NHS staff become pawns

:56:55. > :56:59.She could have taken a different position and has decided not to.

:57:00. > :57:03.We don't want Brits and EU residency to be used as pawns in negotiations.

:57:04. > :57:06.If she took a moral high ground and said we will guarantee this

:57:07. > :57:09.situation, which a lot of Leave campaigners said would happen.

:57:10. > :57:13.She could and she has said that is what she wants to do.

:57:14. > :57:17.rights of Brits in the EU, then she would be very happy to do

:57:18. > :57:19.that quickly outside the negotiations as one

:57:20. > :57:24.Couldn't you just recruit more from other countries, Hamza,

:57:25. > :57:27.There has always been recruitment from other countries from.

:57:28. > :57:30.Clearly, when these people come in their assessment

:57:31. > :57:32.to go on the register is slightly different.

:57:33. > :57:35.With the EU, we have mutual recognition.

:57:36. > :57:41.At present, they just do a language test to be on the register.

:57:42. > :57:44.That is why all the hospitals are recruiting from Greece,

:57:45. > :57:45.Portugal, getting people to come quicker.

:57:46. > :57:48.The Government has pointed out it is investing in front-line staff,

:57:49. > :57:53.it is training thousands of new nurses to stop silly,

:57:54. > :57:55.it is better to train them from this country,

:57:56. > :57:58.then we don't have the language barrier, all the other problems

:57:59. > :58:01.They can say that, but at the same time

:58:02. > :58:08.They have a weird position on all of this.

:58:09. > :58:11.Ultimately, a lot of these changes are going to cost

:58:12. > :58:16.We are having a massive reorganisation that we were promised

:58:17. > :58:20.We have to focus on having decent patient care and making sure

:58:21. > :58:22.we have the right workforce to live with that.

:58:23. > :58:26.And we had a big drop in the number of people applying to study nursing

:58:27. > :58:30.That does sound like it is a direct result of Government policy

:58:31. > :58:32.to abolish these NHS bursaries that students use to get.

:58:33. > :58:37.I think I was very vocal in my opinion of scrapping the bursary.

:58:38. > :58:41.I did think we would see a drop in nursing numbers.

:58:42. > :58:46.But today Hamza's point about nurses outside the EU,

:58:47. > :58:49.I have seen it when nurses have applied to work

:58:50. > :58:52.here because they are outside the EU they have struggled to get

:58:53. > :58:55.What I am hoping as we are moving forward with Brexit,

:58:56. > :58:57.we will have a much more global immigration policy.

:58:58. > :59:01.If we have skills and shortages, we have to match up and make it

:59:02. > :59:03.possible for people to come and work it.

:59:04. > :59:05.If that doesn't happen, we are in I jotted territory, this

:59:06. > :59:11.They are already turning away nurses from countries outside

:59:12. > :59:20.Simply because we had people within the EU that

:59:21. > :59:22.if you were outside the EU or in the Commonwealth,

:59:23. > :59:26.I am hoping that that will change as we go forward.

:59:27. > :59:35.Now, time for some of the other news you may have missed in 60 seconds.

:59:36. > :59:38.A private members bill to ban authorities from describing murders

:59:39. > :59:40.as honour killings has been debated in the Commons.

:59:41. > :59:43.Nusrat Ghani, the MP for Wealden, said the term was unjustifiable.

:59:44. > :59:52.They are murder, assault, rape and enslavement.

:59:53. > :59:55.And we need to be able to use a language that is appropriate.

:59:56. > :59:57.Drivers in some parts of Kent could see the cost

:59:58. > :00:01.In Tunbridge Wells, the council is increasing pay and display

:00:02. > :00:03.charges for the third time in four years.

:00:04. > :00:05.While in Canterbury, parking permits will rise

:00:06. > :00:11.Is another example of a very greedy council.

:00:12. > :00:14.Treating residents it is meant to represent as a cash cow.

:00:15. > :00:18.But the council insists that the money would go

:00:19. > :00:22.And they were protests in Brighton and Broadstairs

:00:23. > :00:24.against Donald Trump's new immigration policy.

:00:25. > :00:25.Nationals from seven Muslim majority countries

:00:26. > :00:31.A petition has been signed by more than 1 million people to stop

:00:32. > :00:37.This was countered by another one created by a Dover businessmen

:00:38. > :00:48.We'll talk about the Labour Party, Anneliese, and that divisive vote

:00:49. > :00:50.in the Commons last week on article 50.

:00:51. > :00:53.If you had been an MP, would you have defied the whip

:00:54. > :00:56.Well, I am certainly not happy with the way

:00:57. > :01:00.I think what you saw was Labour MPs representing their constituencies

:01:01. > :01:02.which voted in a whole variety of different ways.

:01:03. > :01:05.I obviously see what is going on from the inside,

:01:06. > :01:08.being in Brussels and Strasbourg as well as here in the South East,

:01:09. > :01:11.and I am deeply concerned about what is going to happen

:01:12. > :01:14.What is going to happen to other local NHS,

:01:15. > :01:18.Or indeed the future of your own party, but I'm afraid

:01:19. > :01:23.That's the least of it, quite frankly.

:01:24. > :01:26.That's all we've got time for in the South East this week.

:01:27. > :01:28.My thanks to both my guess, Anneliese Dodds and Maria Caulfield,

:01:29. > :01:31.and Julia will be back here next week.

:01:32. > :01:34.programme at another time an airport expansion, but thank you to both of

:01:35. > :01:40.you for being here. Back to you, Andrew.

:01:41. > :01:43.Will the Government's plan to boost house-building

:01:44. > :01:46.Could a handful of Conservative MPs cause problems for

:01:47. > :01:51.And what is President Trump going to do next?

:01:52. > :02:09.You have been following the genesis of this housing white paper. What do

:02:10. > :02:14.you make of it? I think it will be quite spectacular, pretty radical

:02:15. > :02:18.stuff. We heard bits about beating up on developers. I understand it

:02:19. > :02:23.will be a whack, walk, covering every single problem with housing

:02:24. > :02:27.supply and trying to solve it. Which means bad news if you are a huge fan

:02:28. > :02:31.of the green belt, because they will go round that the other way by

:02:32. > :02:35.forcing large quotas on councils are making it down to councils where

:02:36. > :02:39.they build. If you fill up your brown space in towns they will have

:02:40. > :02:43.to trigger the exceptional circumstances bit of the bill to

:02:44. > :02:46.beat on green belts. Beating up developers, opening up the market

:02:47. > :02:52.for renters across the board. And Theresa May, one of the most

:02:53. > :02:58.defining thing she could do on the domestic agenda. I am not as excited

:02:59. > :03:05.as Tom about this. I look back to 2004, do you remember the Kate

:03:06. > :03:09.Barker report? Successive governments, successive prime

:03:10. > :03:13.ministers have been promising to address the housing shortage. In

:03:14. > :03:17.2004 Kate Barker recommended hundreds of thousands new homes.

:03:18. > :03:23.Gordon Brown talked about 3 million new homes by 2020 in 2007. It never

:03:24. > :03:26.happens. The reason is at the end of the day this is local politics,

:03:27. > :03:29.local councillors need to keep their seats and they won't keep their

:03:30. > :03:34.seats if there are hugely controversial developments locally

:03:35. > :03:38.that they support. Yes, the government can and are proposing to

:03:39. > :03:42.overrule councils that don't back local developments, but they may

:03:43. > :03:46.find themselves completely inundated with those cases. I think that is

:03:47. > :03:51.the whole point of it, to take on those NIMBY often Tory councils and

:03:52. > :03:59.force them to build. I can't think of a better defining issue for

:04:00. > :04:06.Theresa May than sticking one in the eye of some quite well off half Tory

:04:07. > :04:09.countryside councils. The government gives councils a quota of homes they

:04:10. > :04:13.have to fill, if they don't have to fill that all run out overland to

:04:14. > :04:17.fill the quota, the government then comes in and tells them they have to

:04:18. > :04:21.built on the green belt? How is that going to work? At the moment the

:04:22. > :04:24.green belt is absolutely sacrosanct in British politics. They'll have to

:04:25. > :04:31.do some work on educating people on what green belts means. Potato

:04:32. > :04:36.farms, golf courses... At the moment the idea people have of the green

:04:37. > :04:41.belt being verdant fields needs to be dismantled. You are right. I

:04:42. > :04:45.agree with Tom, 11 million people in the private rental sector in the UK.

:04:46. > :04:49.In the last election more voted Labour than conservative. This is an

:04:50. > :04:53.area where Theresa May would look to expand her vote. The problem has

:04:54. > :04:58.always been, the same problem we have with pension policy and why

:04:59. > :05:01.pensioners have done better than working families in recent years.

:05:02. > :05:09.They are older and they vote more and anything to the detriment of

:05:10. > :05:13.older people. I wonder how they will get private money to come in on

:05:14. > :05:19.anything like this go they would need to have a huge expansion? There

:05:20. > :05:23.is a huge amount of speculation and one of the thing that locks up the

:05:24. > :05:27.system as you have people buying land, taking out a stake of land in

:05:28. > :05:30.the hope that one point it may at some point free up. At the end of

:05:31. > :05:34.the day, unless you have councils far more willing to quickly fast

:05:35. > :05:38.track these applications, which they won't for the reason I said before,

:05:39. > :05:45.it's a very long-term investment. Ed Miliband proposed three-year leases

:05:46. > :05:50.in which the rent could only go up by an agreed formula, probably the

:05:51. > :05:55.three years to give the young families a certain stability over

:05:56. > :05:59.that period. He had a use it or lose it rules for planning development,

:06:00. > :06:03.if you don't use it you lose the planning rights. Somebody else gets

:06:04. > :06:08.it. The Tories disparaged that at the time. This is at the centre of

:06:09. > :06:12.their policy now. This is probably item number four of

:06:13. > :06:16.Ed Miliband's policy book Theresa May has wholesale pinched in the

:06:17. > :06:21.last six months or so. Why not? I think if you look at the change in

:06:22. > :06:26.mood across housing and planning over the last 5-6 years, it used to

:06:27. > :06:30.be an issue very much of green belt versus London planners. Now you have

:06:31. > :06:32.grandparents living in houses in the countryside, knowing their

:06:33. > :06:39.grandchildren can't get on the housing ladder any longer. Maybe a

:06:40. > :06:41.bit more intervention in the market, tougher on renting conditions, maybe

:06:42. > :06:47.that is exactly what the country needs. Will they meet the 1 million

:06:48. > :06:50.target? It would be a defiance of every political thing that has

:06:51. > :06:55.happened in the last ten years. I think Tom is right, if there is only

:06:56. > :06:57.one difference between Theresa May and David Cameron it's the

:06:58. > :07:04.willingness of the state to intervene. When Ed Miliband said

:07:05. > :07:09.that he was seen as communism, but Theresa May can get away with it.

:07:10. > :07:16.How serious is this talk of a couple of dozen Tories who were very loyal

:07:17. > :07:21.over voting for the principle of Article 50 but may now be tempted to

:07:22. > :07:26.vote for some amendments to Article 50 legislation that they would find

:07:27. > :07:30.quite attractive? I think that threat has certainly been taken

:07:31. > :07:36.seriously by levers. I spoke to the campaign group Leaves Means Leave

:07:37. > :07:39.last night. The figure they mentioned was up to 20 remaining

:07:40. > :07:42.Tories. That sounds a lot to me but that is what they are concerned

:07:43. > :07:48.about and those Tories would come together with Labour and the SNP to

:07:49. > :07:51.vote for that amendment. Although that amendment sounds rather nice

:07:52. > :07:56.and democratic, actually in the eyes of many levers that is a wrecking

:07:57. > :08:00.amendment. Because what you are doing is giving Parliament a sort of

:08:01. > :08:04.veto over whatever deal Theresa May brings back. What they want is the

:08:05. > :08:08.vote to be before that deal is finalised. It isn't necessarily the

:08:09. > :08:14.case that if Parliament decided they didn't like that deal we would just

:08:15. > :08:17.go to WTO, we would fall out of the European Union. There are mixed

:08:18. > :08:22.views as to whether we might remain in and things could be extended. My

:08:23. > :08:29.understanding is the people making the amendments, they won any deal

:08:30. > :08:34.that is done to be brought to Parliament in time, so that if

:08:35. > :08:38.Parliament fancies it it's done, but if it does and it doesn't just mean

:08:39. > :08:43.go to WTO rules. There will be time to go back, renegotiate or think

:08:44. > :08:48.again? The question is where it puts Britain's negotiating hand. Nine of

:08:49. > :08:54.the options... Once we trigger Article 50 the two negotiation

:08:55. > :08:57.begins on the power switches to Europe. They can run out the clock

:08:58. > :09:00.and it will be worse for us than them. I don't think either option is

:09:01. > :09:05.particularly appealing. I think what seems like a rather Serena week for

:09:06. > :09:09.Article 50 this week isn't going to be reflective of what will happen

:09:10. > :09:13.next. The way the government's position is at the moment, if at the

:09:14. > :09:18.end the only choice Parliament has is to vote for the deal or crash out

:09:19. > :09:21.on WTO rules, then even the remainder is going to vote for the

:09:22. > :09:25.deal even if they don't like it, because they would regard crashing

:09:26. > :09:31.out as the worst of all possible results. Possibly. It will be a

:09:32. > :09:35.great game of bluff if Theresa May fights off any of these amendments

:09:36. > :09:39.on Wednesday and gets a straightforward deal or no Deal

:09:40. > :09:42.vote. I have a funny feeling this amendment, if it's chosen, we must

:09:43. > :09:47.remember because we don't know if they will choose this amendment, if

:09:48. > :09:52.it does go to a vote on Wednesday it will be very tight indeed. Remember,

:09:53. > :09:57.one final thing Theresa May can do if she gets Parliament voting

:09:58. > :10:00.against, as Isabel would have it, she could try to get a new

:10:01. > :10:07.parliament and go for a general election. And probably get a huge

:10:08. > :10:13.majority to do so. The Lords, it goes there after the February

:10:14. > :10:22.recess. They are very pro-Europe, but does their instinct for

:10:23. > :10:27.self-preservation override that? I think that is it. A Tory Lord said

:10:28. > :10:30.this morning I will vote to block it on a conscience measure, but you

:10:31. > :10:35.have the likes of Bill Cash, veteran Eurosceptics, suddenly converted to

:10:36. > :10:39.the Lords reform saying is an outrage. I doubt they will vote for

:10:40. > :10:47.their own demise, to hasten their own demise by blocking it. What did

:10:48. > :10:51.you make of Doctor Gorka smart fascinating. Cut from the same cloth

:10:52. > :10:53.as his boss. I thought it was extraordinary listening to him,

:10:54. > :10:58.saying everything is going dutifully to plan. But at the end of the day,

:10:59. > :11:02.what they are doing is what people in America voted for Trump to do. If

:11:03. > :11:06.you look at Lord Ashcroft's polling on why America voted for Trump, they

:11:07. > :11:12.went into this with their eyes wide open. One of the top fears among

:11:13. > :11:15.American voters, particularly Republican leading ones was

:11:16. > :11:19.America's immigration policy is or could be letting in terror arrests.

:11:20. > :11:23.As far as he is concerned, he is doing what he was elected to do.

:11:24. > :11:26.This whole year is turning into a wonderful year long lecture series

:11:27. > :11:30.on how democracy works at a fundamental level. I'm not sure

:11:31. > :11:36.anyone wanted it but it's what we've got. This same in the way we've been

:11:37. > :11:41.talking about direct democracy and Parliamentary democracy. The same is

:11:42. > :11:43.happening in America between executive and judicial branches. We

:11:44. > :11:47.are seeing the limits of presidential power. Regardless of

:11:48. > :11:51.the fact that people voted for Trump they voted for senators. The judge

:11:52. > :11:58.who blocks this was appointed by George W Bush. So-called Judge

:11:59. > :12:01.Eckert Mac so-called George W Bush! It's fascinating we're having all

:12:02. > :12:06.these conversations now that I never bought five years ago we would be

:12:07. > :12:10.having at such a fundamental level. Has the media yet worked out how to

:12:11. > :12:14.cover the Trump administration or has he got us behaving like headless

:12:15. > :12:19.chickens? He says something incendiary and we all run over to do

:12:20. > :12:24.that and when you pick it off it turns out not to be as incendiary as

:12:25. > :12:28.we thought? And then back doing something and we all rush over

:12:29. > :12:35.there. Is he making fools of us? Is exactly what he did in the election

:12:36. > :12:38.campaign. So many quick and fast outrageous comments frontrunner on a

:12:39. > :12:42.daily basis, no one single one of them had full news cycle time to be

:12:43. > :12:45.pored over and examined. I think there is a problem with this.

:12:46. > :12:50.Although he keeps the upper hand, keeps the agenda and keeps on the

:12:51. > :12:54.populist ground, the problem is it easy to campaign like that. If you

:12:55. > :12:57.are governing in a state of semi-hysteria, I wonder how long the

:12:58. > :13:00.American public will be comfortable with that. They don't really want

:13:01. > :13:05.their government to be swirling chaos all the time, as fascinating

:13:06. > :13:12.as it might be on TV. They will be exhausted by it, I already am. I

:13:13. > :13:14.have been interviewing White House administration official since 1976

:13:15. > :13:18.and that is the first time someone hasn't given me a straight answer on

:13:19. > :13:20.America supporting the EU. That is a different world.

:13:21. > :13:24.Jo Coburn will be on BBC Two tomorrow at midday with

:13:25. > :13:26.the Daily Politics - and I'll be back here

:13:27. > :14:05.Remember, if it's Sunday - it's the Sunday Politics.

:14:06. > :14:18.TV: He's not your father. WOMAN GASPS

:14:19. > :14:31.so why not pay your TV licence in weekly instalments, too?