0:01:22 > 0:01:25And in the South West: The next big public sector pay row
0:01:25 > 0:01:35- union's must have thought it couldn't get any worse, but the
0:01:35 > 0:01:35
0:01:35 > 0:29:47Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1692 seconds
0:29:47 > 0:29:50debate about local pay rates is Hello and welcome to the Sunday
0:29:51 > 0:29:53Politics in the South West. Coming up: $NEWLINE The women who want the
0:29:53 > 0:29:59right to ride, and the landowner who says their demands are
0:29:59 > 0:30:01atrocious. To discuss that and much more,
0:30:02 > 0:30:04we've brought together town and country in the form of Alison
0:30:05 > 0:30:14Seabeck, Essex girl and Plymouth MP, and Somerset farmer Neil Parish, MP
0:30:15 > 0:30:15
0:30:15 > 0:30:20for Tiverton and Honiton. Alison, what has your highlight
0:30:20 > 0:30:30been of this first week? Well, appearing on the inaugural Abersoch
0:30:30 > 0:30:31
0:30:31 > 0:30:36of the show of course! I very much hope the government will listen to
0:30:36 > 0:30:41what has been said this week, that common sense has broken out at
0:30:41 > 0:30:45Westminster. I was delighted that David Cameron has raised the issue
0:30:45 > 0:30:49of having a referendum in Scotland as to whether they should remain
0:30:49 > 0:30:53part of the Union. I am very much the Unionists and I think this is
0:30:53 > 0:30:57where all the main parties of Westminster can get together and
0:30:57 > 0:31:03say there are benefits of the United Kingdom, so that when we go
0:31:03 > 0:31:06out to trade with the rest of the world, we are at the United Kingdom
0:31:06 > 0:31:10without separate Scotland. Our embassies are promoting more and
0:31:10 > 0:31:16more trade to the developing world. Let's bring the United Kingdom
0:31:16 > 0:31:20together and not split is a part. Let's have the referendum straight,
0:31:20 > 0:31:25in or out, and then we can talk about enhanced demolition after
0:31:25 > 0:31:28that. The very first debate back at
0:31:28 > 0:31:30Westminster this week focused on the Government's plan to look at
0:31:31 > 0:31:33introducing local pay rates in the public sector. The present national
0:31:34 > 0:31:36pay scale means public sector workers in a region like this one
0:31:36 > 0:31:38tend to be much better off than their private sector equivalents.
0:31:38 > 0:31:40According to the government, that damages private sector
0:31:40 > 0:31:43competitiveness. Business organisations like the CBI agree,
0:31:43 > 0:31:51but unions say the changes would downgrade the region to even more
0:31:51 > 0:31:55of a low-wage economy. Tamsin Melville reports.
0:31:55 > 0:31:59Public sector workers across the south-west were out in force in
0:31:59 > 0:32:03November, striking over pensions and sending strong messages to the
0:32:03 > 0:32:08government. George, if you weren't itching for a fight yesterday, you
0:32:08 > 0:32:12will be today. Issues affecting public sector workers are always
0:32:12 > 0:32:16keep in the south-west, where they make up more than one quarter of
0:32:16 > 0:32:21the workforce. The 1,000 strikers that filled this wall represent
0:32:21 > 0:32:26just a tiny fraction. In Cornwall alone it is estimated there are
0:32:26 > 0:32:3150,000, and if you add in Devon, Dorset and Somerset, they around
0:32:31 > 0:32:34300,000 - enough to fill the at 300 times. So when the Chancellor used
0:32:34 > 0:32:37his Autumn Statement to announce a review of national pay rates for
0:32:37 > 0:32:40public servants, local alarm bells were going off. In a low pay region
0:32:40 > 0:32:44like the south west, it would seem the only way for public sector
0:32:44 > 0:32:50wages would be down. Not a popular concept with those on the front-
0:32:50 > 0:32:54line. I am doing the same job in carrying out the same
0:32:54 > 0:33:00responsibilities, so why should I be paid any differently, whether it
0:33:00 > 0:33:04is less or more than a counterpart who is expected to do exactly the
0:33:04 > 0:33:11same thing as me? Do you think all that good teachers will think, why
0:33:11 > 0:33:14should I be getting paid any less, and move somewhere else? It exactly.
0:33:14 > 0:33:20I think particularly well-qualified pick -- teachers are going to be
0:33:20 > 0:33:25snapped up by other areas. And why not? Unions representing people
0:33:25 > 0:33:29like Stacey are furious. It's just another attack on pay and it will
0:33:29 > 0:33:32be extremely divisive between public and private sector workers,
0:33:32 > 0:33:37particularly between public sector workers to work around the country.
0:33:37 > 0:33:42At all we were trying to get away from the fact that the south-west
0:33:42 > 0:33:48was worse off than London and the south-east, I thought were trying
0:33:48 > 0:33:50to narrow these gaps, not make them worse. But Institute for Fiscal
0:33:50 > 0:33:53Studies research shows the South west has the biggest public-private
0:33:53 > 0:33:57pay gap in England. Men working in the public sector here are likely
0:33:57 > 0:34:01to earn around 8% more than men with similar skills in the private
0:34:01 > 0:34:04sector. So do Ministers have a point that scrapping national pay
0:34:04 > 0:34:10rates could be good for business and boost the economy in regions
0:34:10 > 0:34:13that are over-dependent on the public sector? If what you've got
0:34:13 > 0:34:20is a whole gang of roles in the public sector which are paid that
0:34:20 > 0:34:24much more for very similar jobs, it just stews that market. So you
0:34:24 > 0:34:29really can see why the government would think along these lines. It's
0:34:29 > 0:34:33not just about teachers and nurses, it's about a whole plethora of
0:34:33 > 0:34:38administrators and people who do similar jobs in the private sector.
0:34:38 > 0:34:41That is why you need a much wider review. But at Westminster this
0:34:41 > 0:34:45week, some MPs have been questioning had driving down pay
0:34:45 > 0:34:51could possibly boost local economies. The Chancellor has asked
0:34:51 > 0:34:55how it could be implemented and how it would work, and there is no
0:34:55 > 0:34:58consideration of the overall economic impact of this proposal.
0:34:59 > 0:35:02George Osborne has as the independent pay review bodies to
0:35:02 > 0:35:09report back in July. Meanwhile, unions are warning public sector
0:35:09 > 0:35:13workers won't see their wages go down without a fight.
0:35:13 > 0:35:17Alison, surely everybody agrees we need to stimulate the private
0:35:17 > 0:35:21sector. We need to stimulate the south-west, and I don't think
0:35:21 > 0:35:25Westminster understands this region. If you give the importance of those
0:35:25 > 0:35:29public sector salaries to this region, particularly cities like a
0:35:29 > 0:35:36mad, if you were to reduce those salaries, it would have a
0:35:36 > 0:35:41considerable negative effect. We have a large number of paid workers
0:35:41 > 0:35:46not comparable with public sector workers at all. The reason why
0:35:46 > 0:35:49Cornwall is a convergence area of objectives 1 and 2 is simply
0:35:49 > 0:35:52because it is low wage. I genuinely think this really has to be
0:35:52 > 0:35:55carefully thought through. Government policies impact in a
0:35:55 > 0:36:00range of different ways. If we won the private sector to grow down
0:36:01 > 0:36:07here, we have to have transport links. Government, if you are
0:36:07 > 0:36:12looking at this, look at it very carefully. Labour introduced local
0:36:13 > 0:36:15pay. Yes, and we didn't extend it. It was almost like the pilot. It
0:36:15 > 0:36:20threw up a number of disparities and inequalities, but most
0:36:20 > 0:36:23important for me is I don't think people in Westminster, whatever
0:36:23 > 0:36:28government, understand the south- west economy well enough and they
0:36:28 > 0:36:32do not understand how important some of those public sector jobs
0:36:32 > 0:36:37and incomes are. Neil, a lot of businesses will be in favour of
0:36:37 > 0:36:41this change. Tim Jones from the Business Council agrees with Alison,
0:36:41 > 0:36:48he says if you give the economy of the region as a whole, this would
0:36:48 > 0:36:52be under reasonable and devastating. You have to look at the whole
0:36:52 > 0:36:56picture. There is an argument that paying the public sector more
0:36:56 > 0:37:00drives private sector costs up, but we also live in an area where we
0:37:00 > 0:37:06have high-priced houses, so I think what the review body has to look at
0:37:06 > 0:37:10is not just the disparity between wages and the cost of living in the
0:37:10 > 0:37:13south-west, and that is where Alison and I can agree on. If the
0:37:13 > 0:37:17previous government started it with the Prison Service, that actually
0:37:18 > 0:37:23look now and see what effect that has had, and seek where some
0:37:23 > 0:37:28positive sides can be. But in the end if it is actually just going to
0:37:28 > 0:37:32reduce overall salaries in the south-west, with people still
0:37:32 > 0:37:38finding it difficult to get housing and accommodation, then I think we
0:37:38 > 0:37:42have to be very careful. I think it's something that needs to be
0:37:42 > 0:37:50looked at but are not sold on it one way or the other yet, because I
0:37:50 > 0:37:53think we have to look at the impact right the way through.
0:37:53 > 0:37:55When the last government introduced the so-called Right to Roam
0:37:55 > 0:37:58legislation it was hailed by ramblers as a long-overdue victory
0:37:58 > 0:38:00after more than a century of campaigning. Many landowners, of
0:38:00 > 0:38:03course, took a rather different view. Conflict is now brewing again
0:38:03 > 0:38:06in the green fields of Somerset as horse-riders attempt to reclaim
0:38:06 > 0:38:16around 200 bridleways before the legal deadline expires. We sent
0:38:16 > 0:38:21
0:38:21 > 0:38:25A call to action on Dartmoor. The reason? Public access to a disputed
0:38:25 > 0:38:29right of way. The protest ultimately failed, but it showed
0:38:29 > 0:38:33the depth of feeling when it comes to the countryside. Now, a plan by
0:38:33 > 0:38:38South Somerset Bridleways Association to reinstate 200
0:38:38 > 0:38:44rights-of-way has alarmed landowners. I don't it is very good,
0:38:44 > 0:38:49what they've done. In fact, it is borderline atrocious. This
0:38:49 > 0:38:55bridleway opened in 2009. It is on a disused railway, but there are
0:38:55 > 0:39:00many historic bridleways and for Pat's -- footpads. Take this three-
0:39:00 > 0:39:07mile track near Taunton, used by horse-riders. It is not officially
0:39:07 > 0:39:11a right of way, but that could change, as an application has been
0:39:11 > 0:39:17handed into reinstated. Time is running out. If bridleways on
0:39:17 > 0:39:22claims on his struggle evidence by 2026, that is the closure date and
0:39:22 > 0:39:28no-one will be able to claim a bridleway on their land. They
0:39:28 > 0:39:35should still be able to do it on use evidence, but that is a
0:39:35 > 0:39:45different matter. The challenge access groups is to get ways on to
0:39:45 > 0:39:47
0:39:47 > 0:39:51definitive maps. Taunton Deane Bridleway Association has filed
0:39:51 > 0:39:56over 200 applications. Others fear claims could top -- could cost
0:39:56 > 0:40:02taxpayers in Somerset alone over �1 million. It doesn't cost anything
0:40:02 > 0:40:07for users to put in applications, but it costs money to defend it. If
0:40:07 > 0:40:10they don't, then what happens is potentially the claim could be
0:40:10 > 0:40:15successful and the landowner would have a right of way which perhaps
0:40:15 > 0:40:22shouldn't be there. So again costs landowners many tens of thousands
0:40:22 > 0:40:28of pounds to defend a claim. reinstatement claim could take
0:40:28 > 0:40:32years to evaluate and has disappointed landowners and farmers.
0:40:32 > 0:40:36Just because something was there in the past, doesn't mean it is
0:40:36 > 0:40:40appropriate use today. Farmers have changed, these farms are factory
0:40:40 > 0:40:45floor. Their working environments, and some of the historic roots are
0:40:45 > 0:40:52not always conducive with working practices. It would be far better
0:40:52 > 0:40:59to look for negotiation. James Small, seem to be chairman of the
0:40:59 > 0:41:09end you left, believes there should be compromised, with permissive
0:41:09 > 0:41:12
0:41:12 > 0:41:15path. -- the NFU. Access is open and is being used by new
0:41:15 > 0:41:18generations of course riders and cyclists already. They are seeing
0:41:18 > 0:41:22the benefits. So what is more beneficial to the public, roots
0:41:22 > 0:41:27that they can use that are safe where they can see the countryside,
0:41:27 > 0:41:32or something that is seeing -- sitting in a dusty County Hall for
0:41:32 > 0:41:37the next 20 years? Even those making claims admit the system is a
0:41:37 > 0:41:41ludicrous and overly complex for all concerned. There is another
0:41:41 > 0:41:45prizes which landowners can do which is dedicating the land as
0:41:45 > 0:41:51bridleways. If they did that, it would cut out all of this procedure
0:41:51 > 0:41:54that we have to go to. On the other hand, we feel it must be done
0:41:54 > 0:42:01because we don't want to be in danger of future generations losing
0:42:01 > 0:42:05the roots. Well, we heard from one Somerset landowner in the film
0:42:05 > 0:42:11there. We have another one here. Do you agree with the farmer in the
0:42:11 > 0:42:19film? Well, I am a farmer and I do agree because I think the idea we
0:42:19 > 0:42:24must build on these permissive path, rather than this idea of historic
0:42:24 > 0:42:28bridleways... It might be right through the middle of a bridleway.
0:42:28 > 0:42:31If you're growing maize or crops, it is very difficult to reinstate
0:42:31 > 0:42:35it there. It does it matter that you have to go round the edge of
0:42:35 > 0:42:39the field now. So that is what worries me - it is far too rigid.
0:42:39 > 0:42:44Better to go forward with co- operation with the landowners,
0:42:44 > 0:42:47because in the wake -- end, that is the way for a party going to work.
0:42:47 > 0:42:51If there is acrimony, there will always be problems. They say the
0:42:51 > 0:42:56law works for the law-abiding, and I think that works for both sides
0:42:56 > 0:43:01of this argument. I think we should get farmers and users of these
0:43:01 > 0:43:06packs to gathers to get compromises and permissive paths. The idea of
0:43:06 > 0:43:12forcing through lots of obsolete roots does not make sense to me.
0:43:12 > 0:43:20Alison, you seem to be nodding. Do you agree? It's one of these
0:43:20 > 0:43:24arguments which is polarising. In the build up to the Right to Roam,
0:43:24 > 0:43:29the debates were very difficult at times. So I think there is some
0:43:29 > 0:43:34scope in this a round permissive path ways. But equally, riders are
0:43:34 > 0:43:38generally very responsible people, and they do use the land sensibly
0:43:38 > 0:43:43in the main. Most of them will not go straight through a field. They
0:43:43 > 0:43:48have enough intelligence not to. So there ought to be some progress
0:43:48 > 0:43:53made, but clearly people have rights and there is a deadline, and
0:43:53 > 0:44:00they should, I think, expressed their applications. But within that,
0:44:00 > 0:44:04they ought to be scope for discussion and the offers from
0:44:04 > 0:44:12local landowners to say, well, I would rather you didn't use this
0:44:13 > 0:44:20big barbel open this it up so you can get from eight to be safely. --
0:44:20 > 0:44:24from A to B. What worries me is when you try to move it that path,
0:44:24 > 0:44:34there is always objection and it is difficult. So these pacts have to
0:44:34 > 0:44:34
0:44:34 > 0:44:43be treated with more flexibility. That is what worries me.
0:44:43 > 0:44:45It's time now for our round-up of the political week in 60 seconds.
0:44:46 > 0:44:54The campaign to save though Portsmouth rescue helicopter
0:44:54 > 0:44:57reached Downing Street. We have two diverse saving people who would be
0:44:57 > 0:45:02drowned higher not been for the fact that the Portland helicopter
0:45:02 > 0:45:06was then a matter of minutes. Embarrassment in Plymouth that the
0:45:06 > 0:45:16City Council even discussed fights to fight back plans to fight crime
0:45:16 > 0:45:17
0:45:17 > 0:45:21by limiting the number of foreign students in shops.
0:45:21 > 0:45:25Another Plymouth politician asked the government to improve our
0:45:25 > 0:45:28railways before extending high- speed rail to Scotland. When the
0:45:28 > 0:45:35motorway is stopping at Exeter, we desperately need to increase a rail
0:45:35 > 0:45:41connectivity to the rest of the country. And in North Devon, bin
0:45:41 > 0:45:45men were told they need to work harder and stop throwing sickies.
0:45:45 > 0:45:54The national average is 12 days here, not the 18 the we have been
0:45:54 > 0:45:58talking about. Alison, you have a history of
0:45:58 > 0:46:03working on maritime safety. This is a very specific issue. When you
0:46:03 > 0:46:09have an issue like that as an MP, when do you let go and say, I am
0:46:09 > 0:46:13furious about this but a decision has been made? It is a very
0:46:13 > 0:46:17difficult decision to take, actually. Part of you will be
0:46:17 > 0:46:21saying, I have to keep going with this, but you are right, you reach
0:46:21 > 0:46:24a wall where you just can't take it any further. Whether it is an issue
0:46:24 > 0:46:28like that or an issue for a constituent, there comes a point
0:46:28 > 0:46:33where you actually have to step back and say, the decision has been
0:46:33 > 0:46:40taken. I think this is the case with the coastguards, sadly.
0:46:40 > 0:46:43think you should fight to the end. I'm a big supporter of digging in.
0:46:43 > 0:46:47You are there to fight the corner, and I know whatever political party
0:46:47 > 0:46:52you are, at the government makes a decision that may not be to your
0:46:52 > 0:46:55liking. But my view is that you keep going, and some you win, some
0:46:55 > 0:47:00you lose. But I know there comes a moment where that you think you're
0:47:00 > 0:47:04wasting your time, but I think you should keep that fight going. The
0:47:04 > 0:47:11railways, we have to get not only the main line down to Plymouth, but
0:47:11 > 0:47:19we have to get the Waterloo to Honiton line. Lots of things can be
0:47:19 > 0:47:27done to boost things in a constituency. I am always after
0:47:27 > 0:47:34improvements to the motorway. I think we should and block the the
0:47:34 > 0:47:37area around Stonehenge and worked northwards. There are times when
0:47:37 > 0:47:41the legislation is there and you can't change it. So then it becomes
0:47:41 > 0:47:44a matter of where to take the battle next a new start again,
0:47:44 > 0:47:49perhaps coming at it from a different angle. With a different
0:47:49 > 0:47:53set of ministers! What of his business in Plymouth this week? The
0:47:53 > 0:47:57City Council has apologised and said it was an oversight that this
0:47:57 > 0:48:03proposal was ever considered. Limiting the number of foreign
0:48:03 > 0:48:09students in shops because that might be a way to reduce crime?
0:48:09 > 0:48:18was a very poorly worded statement and clearly got quite a lot of
0:48:18 > 0:48:22coverage. We are a city with lots of students but most of the people
0:48:22 > 0:48:26apparently involved are sort of the 18-14 yards language students
0:48:26 > 0:48:31coming over for a couple of weeks. They tend to go around in large
0:48:31 > 0:48:36groups. Lots of shops will have signed up in London saying
0:48:36 > 0:48:39"children, two at a time". The fact that this was identifying foreign
0:48:39 > 0:48:43students actually sent a whole range of wrong messages out about
0:48:43 > 0:48:46the city and it needed to be retracted. I think it was wrong
0:48:46 > 0:48:51because in the end you have to make sure there you please those shops
0:48:51 > 0:48:56properly. It does it matter who is doing a shoplifting, let's sort it
0:48:56 > 0:48:59out. It does send a very bad message to those foreign students
0:48:59 > 0:49:03that we are inviting into Plymouth quite legitimately for language
0:49:03 > 0:49:08school. So it was one of those things which was appallingly badly
0:49:08 > 0:49:15handled. What we actually want to get is more people to Plymouth,
0:49:15 > 0:49:19more people in the West Country, but also those shopkeepers actually
0:49:19 > 0:49:25want better policing and better security so that shoplifting
0:49:25 > 0:49:28doesn't take place. So therefore I think singling out one individual