:01:23. > :01:32.In the South West: The Tories and the Lib Dems used to accuse Labour
:01:33. > :01:42.of wanting to build all over the countryside. Now they're in the
:01:43. > :01:43.
:01:43. > :30:00.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1697 seconds
:30:00. > :30:06.Hello and welcome to the Sunday Politics in the South West. Coming
:30:06. > :30:10.up: The publicans who say a new plan to crack down on problem
:30:10. > :30:13.drinking could be the final nail in their coffin. Joining us for the
:30:13. > :30:16.next 20 minutes, to offer their wit and wisdom, are the Liberal
:30:16. > :30:18.Democrat Peer and former Torridge & West Devon MP John Burnett. And
:30:18. > :30:21.Jude Robinson who sits in splendid isolation as the only Labour
:30:21. > :30:23.councillor on Cornwall Council, an authority otherwise teeming with
:30:23. > :30:33.Conservatives, Lib Dems and, being Cornwall, Independents and Cornish
:30:33. > :30:37.
:30:37. > :30:47.nationalists. A local Government Sowry -- story that has broken this
:30:47. > :30:48.
:30:48. > :30:55.week. Be deferred town council have been having unlawful sessions?
:30:55. > :31:00.first reaction was am I going bonkers? We have Peers in the House
:31:00. > :31:07.of Lords. One of our bishops says prayers. We have the same in the
:31:07. > :31:17.Commons. If you do not want to go to Peers you do not have to go to
:31:17. > :31:20.
:31:20. > :31:30.Peers. When the players are over you get on with business. --
:31:30. > :31:33.
:31:33. > :31:43.prayers. I wonder how soon this will be over. I suspect an appeal
:31:43. > :31:43.
:31:43. > :31:53.will be forthcoming. It is the same for us. There is always a resolute
:31:53. > :31:54.
:31:54. > :31:59.bunch of the rebels who come in after the prayers are finished.
:31:59. > :32:05.think we are called Old peculiar as. I think we probably do have the
:32:05. > :32:10.right to set our own rules but surely it is open to every council
:32:10. > :32:20.in the country to have peers questions Mark We will come back to
:32:20. > :32:32.
:32:32. > :32:35.this in a minute. -- prayers? It's just a few weeks now until the
:32:35. > :32:37.Government publishes its plans to reform the planning system. In
:32:37. > :32:40.opposition both the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats poured
:32:40. > :32:42.vitriol on what they portrayed as Labour's plans to build all over
:32:42. > :32:45.the countryside. Now they're in government they stand accused of
:32:45. > :32:48.exactly the same thing. Among their more vocal critics are such
:32:48. > :32:50.notorious firebrands as the Daily Telegraph and the National Trust.
:32:50. > :32:53.Another, the Campaign to Protect Rural England, has now produced a
:32:53. > :33:03.map showing the great swathes of countryside it claims are at risk.
:33:03. > :33:04.
:33:04. > :33:12.Jenny Kumah reports. The Devon countryside. There are fears it
:33:12. > :33:21.will be built upon. Here there is discretionary classification. It is
:33:22. > :33:27.in away free for development. This man is the cheer of the campaign
:33:27. > :33:37.for the Protection of Rural England. He says this area near Totnes will
:33:37. > :34:05.
:34:05. > :34:10.be susceptible to rural development. Robin fears this will lead to
:34:10. > :34:14.unchecked planning and development. In the old system there was a
:34:14. > :34:20.priority for developing on brownfield sites before green field
:34:20. > :34:30.sites. That seems to have been gotten rid of. Conservation groups
:34:30. > :34:42.
:34:42. > :34:46.were also critical of the previous Government's top-down housing plans.
:34:46. > :34:53.In more rural villages they are desperate for more affordable
:34:53. > :35:01.housing. As things stand there is no scope for sustainable
:35:01. > :35:03.development. The CPRE is among several organisations, including
:35:03. > :35:06.the National Trust, that have spoken out against the coalition
:35:06. > :35:14.changes. But Ministers insist their reforms are not about a choice
:35:14. > :35:19.between the countryside and concrete. Our countryside is one of
:35:19. > :35:22.the best things that makes Britain great and we will protect it.
:35:22. > :35:31.New Planning Framework is due to be published by April and campaigners
:35:31. > :35:36.know this is their last chance to get the government to think again.
:35:36. > :35:42.As an organisation you had a goal at the Labour plans and you are now
:35:42. > :35:48.having a go at the coalition's plans. What would you do to solve
:35:48. > :35:53.this problem? I do not think it is as great a problem as is any doubt.
:35:53. > :36:00.If you look at our website you will see all the planning applications.
:36:00. > :36:04.Most of them are appearing on this and designated land. So they are
:36:04. > :36:08.anticipating the change? I think they are. They are looking to get
:36:08. > :36:15.planning permission where it is easier and I do not blame them for
:36:15. > :36:23.that. What is happening of course now, so far as we can see, there is
:36:23. > :36:27.not going to be at free-for-all. We want to see development but
:36:27. > :36:32.sustainable development. There is no point in dumping a housing
:36:32. > :36:39.estate on a village which has no infrastructure, no schools, all of
:36:39. > :36:46.that. We would like to see local communities telling the that
:36:46. > :36:50.authorities where they see the best place for this housing. Our prime
:36:50. > :36:56.aim this year is to get affordable housing and one of the great
:36:56. > :37:01.difficulties we face is because we have a big economic collapse at the
:37:01. > :37:10.moment there is no money to be made in putting up new development sites
:37:10. > :37:16.unless there is a high proportion of sites with open housing. I do
:37:16. > :37:23.not think either of our guests would disagree with that. Let me
:37:24. > :37:30.remind you of what some of your colleagues said in opposition.
:37:30. > :37:35.Councils are being forced to identify ludicrously large amounts
:37:35. > :37:45.of the mainland. Doesn't that look like the pot calling the kettle
:37:45. > :37:48.
:37:48. > :37:54.black now? Perhaps it might do. We do not want a top-down system. What
:37:54. > :38:01.we do need and recognised in office is that there is a huge housing
:38:01. > :38:08.crisis. It is getting worse and worse. If I could remind you all
:38:08. > :38:14.and you viewers that there are 185,000 households in the South
:38:14. > :38:19.West that are on local housing waiting lists. We have a huge
:38:19. > :38:27.department for housing. In 2010 103,000 houses were built and the
:38:27. > :38:33.housing demand was something like 233,000. There is a massive housing
:38:33. > :38:40.crisis which has to be resolved. It is incumbent on us to do it. We are
:38:40. > :38:50.not going to build on an outright Greenfield's. We have the same some
:38:50. > :38:58.were protections that had hitherto applied but we have to have some
:38:59. > :39:05.level of the aim to achieve more house building. But their plan is
:39:05. > :39:09.better than Labour's. Might worry is in Devon at the moment these
:39:10. > :39:14.local rural communities just are not able to develop this new
:39:14. > :39:19.neighbourhood plan to get in front of the authorities what they want.
:39:19. > :39:25.I do worry that we will have a difficult time because the local
:39:25. > :39:35.plan is going to be paramount. There are some area is which do not
:39:35. > :39:37.
:39:37. > :39:43.even have a core strategy. Are you in favour of the idea? Of building
:39:43. > :39:48.houses? I think there is a mismatch. Property developers want to build
:39:48. > :39:54.houses but not necessarily for those people we want to house,
:39:54. > :39:59.those who cannot get on the property ladder already. As you
:39:59. > :40:04.mentioned with the local plans, a lot of local parishes and towns
:40:04. > :40:08.have not set up to develop these plans but the presumption is in
:40:08. > :40:14.favour of development. If the local community does not want development
:40:14. > :40:19.it is up to them to prove why a development should not happen. That
:40:19. > :40:28.gives much more power to the developer than local people. Before
:40:28. > :40:38.we move on I should mention we have a link to the map of allegedly
:40:38. > :40:41.
:40:41. > :40:45.vulnerable countryside on our Facebook site. So far 73 people
:40:45. > :40:47.have joined us there, and If you'd like to help make up the numbers go
:40:47. > :40:50.to facebook.com and search for BBC Sunday Politics South West.
:40:50. > :40:52.Something else due out in the next few weeks is the Government's
:40:53. > :40:55.Alcohol Strategy, proposing new measures to tackle the nation's
:40:55. > :40:57.collective drink problem. In the meantime Ministers are already
:40:57. > :40:59.considering a financial levy on licensed premises selling alcohol
:41:00. > :41:02.after midnight. We sent Johnny Rutherford to the heart of
:41:03. > :41:05.Plymouth's night time economy to see if anybody's raising a glass to
:41:05. > :41:09.that particular idea. In the last year, 250,000 people across the
:41:09. > :41:19.South West ended up in hospital as a result of booze. It's a figure
:41:19. > :41:26.
:41:26. > :41:30.that's been going up for the last seven years. Now the Government is
:41:30. > :41:36.thinking of a late night led the but some publicans think it could
:41:36. > :41:39.ruin them. On the Barbican in Plymouth, Navy Inn's John Buckley
:41:39. > :41:42.says it's yet another stealth tax to add to his problems of brewers
:41:42. > :41:52.recently putting the price of beer up and probable charges for
:41:52. > :41:53.
:41:53. > :41:58.improvements to his business district. The punter will have to
:41:58. > :42:01.pay for these levies. The Levy is said to range between �200 to
:42:01. > :42:04.�4,000. The top end being for big supermarket chains. The cash
:42:04. > :42:07.collected would then be used on things like the clearing up costs
:42:07. > :42:10.of alcohol related disorder and late night policing. Chris Unwin is
:42:10. > :42:20.the landlord of three barbican pubs and a nightclub. He thinks he pays
:42:20. > :42:25.enough already for these services. In our non-domestic rates we are
:42:25. > :42:32.already paying for the police force. I am not happy we are being charged
:42:32. > :42:35.twice for the same service. local residences say anything that
:42:35. > :42:43.pays for more to be done to kerb the late night alcohol related
:42:43. > :42:49.problems is a good thing. police are talking about cutting
:42:49. > :42:56.officers on the beat. If you are a local resident ringing the police
:42:56. > :43:00.and nobody is coming. You know a good establishment and a bad one
:43:00. > :43:04.and where the problems are coming from, I think there should be a
:43:04. > :43:10.levy if you are running an establishment in the early hours
:43:10. > :43:13.which creates problems. You should pay that levy. But the Totnes MP
:43:13. > :43:16.who's been campaigning for action on alcohol abuse says this idea
:43:16. > :43:23.could damage pubs and fail to tackle what she sees as the bigger
:43:24. > :43:30.problem. I think it is right that we see people who are contributing
:43:30. > :43:34.to the cost of this picking up the bill. I think it should be a fair
:43:34. > :43:39.reflection of the true cost on supermarkets who are selling ultra
:43:39. > :43:44.cheap alcohol. Just because they are not selling it late at night
:43:44. > :43:51.does not mean they should not be contributing to it. A significant
:43:51. > :43:53.number of people are already arriving at clubs drunk.
:43:53. > :44:00.government will publish its Alcohol Strategy within the coming weeks.
:44:00. > :44:07.The consultation period for the levy is due to end in April. Is
:44:07. > :44:17.this more proof that Labour was mad to change the licensing laws?
:44:17. > :44:18.
:44:19. > :44:23.Extending the time people can drink is not helping. I do not think
:44:23. > :44:28.changing the licensing laws was the issue but I think you are right
:44:28. > :44:34.about changing the culture. More establishments can now stay open
:44:34. > :44:40.beyond midnight. As the said in declare a lot of people are getting
:44:40. > :44:45.drunk on cheap supermarket alcohol before they even go out. It seems a
:44:45. > :44:51.shame to penalise pubs when actually going out to the local pub
:44:51. > :45:01.is part of the social fabric that lanes people together in
:45:01. > :45:09.
:45:09. > :45:15.communities. I welcome my Government's proposals to ensure
:45:15. > :45:19.local communities have greater say on opening hours. I also welcome
:45:19. > :45:25.action that is stopping lost readers so you are not going to be
:45:25. > :45:32.able to sell alcohol at a loss. I am looking for something on
:45:32. > :45:38.labelling and really curtailing the ability to buy if you are under the
:45:38. > :45:46.age of 18. Some of the advertising is really over the top. There is a
:45:46. > :45:51.lot of work to be done. Alcohol causes enormous problems. Hospitals,
:45:51. > :45:56.crime, it is a huge expense to us all. Anti-social behaviour is
:45:56. > :46:03.something that people complain to me so much about and so much of it
:46:03. > :46:07.is induced by alcohol. What would you say to the allegation that a
:46:07. > :46:17.lot of people are being tanked up on cheap booze and the publicans
:46:17. > :46:19.
:46:19. > :46:24.are suffering? I think there is a real issue about her alcohol is
:46:25. > :46:31.marketed. Instead of it being about a pint of beer with your friends or
:46:31. > :46:34.a glass of wine with a meal it is about sweet fizzy drinks where
:46:34. > :46:41.people get drunk very quickly without feeling like they are
:46:41. > :46:47.drinking alcohol. That is something I think we have to tackle. The last
:46:47. > :46:56.point is about education. I think that is so important. Right, we are
:46:56. > :47:05.going to have to leave it dear. -- there. Now our regular round-up of
:47:05. > :47:09.the political week in 60 seconds. By Torbay residents were outraged
:47:09. > :47:16.that the local council will begetting its staff feed parking
:47:16. > :47:22.permits. I wish I could afford to give my staff free parking
:47:22. > :47:28.vouchers! In Dorset the police the authority decided to freeze its
:47:28. > :47:34.share of the council tax. There is no where else to go except
:47:34. > :47:40.operational officers and staff. then you keep they are calling for
:47:40. > :47:45.a new criminal offence of urinating in the street. Not the kind of
:47:45. > :47:51.things our MPs would enforce on our four-legged friends but they are
:47:51. > :48:01.planning to introduce compulsory micro-chipping for all dogs. In the
:48:01. > :48:06.House of Commons I tried twice to get this well over 20 years ago.
:48:06. > :48:11.have been hearing a lot about public sector cuts. Everyone is
:48:11. > :48:17.having a tough time. When councils are picking up parking charges is
:48:17. > :48:23.this really the time to hand out free permits to their own staff?
:48:23. > :48:28.does seem incongruous given some of the benefits of working for the
:48:28. > :48:34.public sector. Average pay in the public sector is higher than in the
:48:34. > :48:40.private and in terms of pensions. I am not aware of whether the three
:48:40. > :48:48.parking permits are taxable but nevertheless it is perhaps
:48:48. > :48:53.offensive to other people. I know that the staff at Cornwall council
:48:53. > :48:59.have voluntarily had a pay freeze and reductions in their expenses.
:48:59. > :49:03.They have done an awful lot to help the council save money and I do not
:49:03. > :49:10.know if they get free parking permits but I would not begrudge
:49:10. > :49:15.them a bit of help. And an new law addressing urination in the
:49:15. > :49:20.streets? I think there are plenty enough laws to deal with that so
:49:20. > :49:28.perhaps it is not necessary. This is particularly in Newquay, what do
:49:28. > :49:34.you think? It is not something I have come across, I would have
:49:34. > :49:42.thought anti-social behaviour teams would deal with such things. They