:01:32. > :01:36.In the south-west, the water customers who say the Government's
:01:36. > :01:46.�50 hand out won't be enough to make our bills fair and the
:01:46. > :01:46.
:01:46. > :35:37.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2031 seconds
:35:37. > :35:43.confusion over funding for Welcome. Hello and welcome to the
:35:43. > :35:46.Sunday Politics in the south-west. Coming up. The water customers who
:35:46. > :35:53.say the Government's happened out for the region is still just a drop
:35:53. > :35:58.in the resevoir. Well, here to ep me unravel the week's political
:35:58. > :36:02.goings on are two people who have spent their careers fighting the
:36:03. > :36:06.Tory. For Alison Seabeck that is still a full-time job. Adrian
:36:06. > :36:11.Sanders finds himself in coalition with the old enemy but he is an
:36:11. > :36:15.independent minded kind of chap. Welcome to you both. Something you
:36:15. > :36:17.will both have a keen interest in rail links to London and the speed
:36:17. > :36:21.of them. There is a campaign in Plymouth at the moment to try and
:36:21. > :36:26.get faster links to London, but that would be at the price of the
:36:26. > :36:29.train not stopping at other places through Devon. You have been
:36:30. > :36:36.fighting against that. I think we need to unite round certain
:36:36. > :36:40.principles, as we look at the new franchise. Looking at punctuality,
:36:41. > :36:46.looking at better capacity of our trains to cope with the demand,
:36:46. > :36:48.having things that -- attract people on the the rail. Better fare
:36:48. > :36:53.structure, Wi-Fi, mobile phone coverage improved. All of these
:36:53. > :36:57.things are things we can unite round and hopefully reduce journey
:36:57. > :37:02.times for everyone. OK. Alison, you are a Plymouth MP. The Plymouth
:37:02. > :37:07.argument is it is the biggest city in the region, it is the hu, it is
:37:07. > :37:13.so important for a few stops up the line, it's a price worth paying.
:37:13. > :37:16.think that is a tad unfair, if I may say. Some people have said that.
:37:16. > :37:21.Plymouth is clearly a huge economic driver in the region, and therefore,
:37:21. > :37:24.it is important we can get business to Plymouth. That means having
:37:24. > :37:28.early trains, which don't cause problems for Torbay, but get to
:37:29. > :37:32.Plymouth in time for people to do business and get to London for time
:37:33. > :37:36.to do business. But Adrian is right. What I have been trying to do and
:37:36. > :37:40.what other MPs are trying to do is come up with a strategic package
:37:40. > :37:46.that we can put to Government and talk as one voice across the south-
:37:46. > :37:49.west, which says we have to have better rail links. I have to say
:37:49. > :37:53.the decision of the Department of Transport not to hold a
:37:53. > :37:56.consultation is shocking. And I think, you know, the Department for
:37:56. > :38:00.Transport need to get their finger out and do something about it.
:38:00. > :38:04.must move on. Something called the New Homes Bonus is part of the
:38:04. > :38:07.Government's approach the tackling one of the south-west's biggest and
:38:07. > :38:11.most persistent problem, the affordable housing crisis. It has
:38:11. > :38:15.brought millions into the region as a reward for councils who have
:38:15. > :38:23.built new homes. It is becoming clear that the money itself is
:38:23. > :38:27.often being spent on anything but housing. Here at this Torquay play
:38:27. > :38:31.group mum of two Debbie knows about Torbay's housing problem, she is
:38:32. > :38:36.struggling to afford the rent for her home, but with more than 3,000
:38:36. > :38:40.people on the housing waiting list, her options are limited. I can't
:38:40. > :38:43.get on the list. They will not put me on the list. I have tried about
:38:43. > :38:48.three different times. Each time I have opinion in a property the
:38:48. > :38:54.landlord has give us notice to quit, the last property was riddled with
:38:54. > :38:57.damp, there was heroin addicts living under us, they still
:38:57. > :39:01.wouldn't put us on the list. Over the last two years the Government
:39:01. > :39:05.has cut council budgets for affordable housing. In Cornwall
:39:05. > :39:10.their funding was cut by more than 80%. But the coalition has
:39:10. > :39:14.introduced something called the New Homes Bonus to encourage more house
:39:14. > :39:19.building. The Government matches council tax reveet -- receipts for
:39:19. > :39:26.in homes for six year, but it isn't ringfenced. Councils are free to
:39:26. > :39:30.spend it on whatever they like. The Government has given Torbay
:39:30. > :39:36.�300,000. The local MP has praised the incentive scheme on his website,
:39:36. > :39:40.saying it has been awarded to provide much-needed housing in the
:39:40. > :39:43.local area. But Torbay Council say the money has gone into supporting
:39:43. > :39:46.the overall budget. Frontline services in adult social care and
:39:46. > :39:53.Children's Services are some of the areas they are struggling to find
:39:53. > :39:56.cash for. Cornwall Council will get �5 million from the New Homes Bonus
:39:56. > :40:00.next year. And this week councillors approved the plan to
:40:00. > :40:05.spend it on service, though it is planning to borrow �20 million to
:40:05. > :40:09.build more affordable homes. Meanwhile, North Devon District
:40:09. > :40:13.Council says it used last year's bonus to pay for services and west
:40:13. > :40:19.Devon and Southams are using some of their bonus money to prop up
:40:19. > :40:24.their general budgets. In team bridge the own council hasn't ruled
:40:24. > :40:29.out spending a slice of the bonus on frontline service, something
:40:29. > :40:33.councellors are warning against. Say it dangerous road to go down.
:40:33. > :40:38.The bonus may stop at some sometimes. If it is used as a
:40:38. > :40:42.crutch now, how do they make that short fall when the budge it
:40:42. > :40:47.disappears? This budget will deliver more than 100 affordable
:40:47. > :40:51.homes earning the council thousands of pounds from the bonus. But
:40:52. > :40:56.without any ringfencing, it is said the authority needs to be clearer
:40:56. > :40:59.about how it will be spent. I think the hype and the spin round the New
:40:59. > :41:05.Homes Bonus needs to match the reality. Government I think have
:41:05. > :41:07.been clear, the New Homes Bonus was a community benefit, for councils,
:41:07. > :41:10.and particularly for the communities which accepted new
:41:10. > :41:15.housing, councils need to make sure that some of that money goes
:41:15. > :41:20.directly to the towns and villages where they new housing is built.
:41:20. > :41:24.The Government's aim of the bonus is to give councils the freedom to
:41:24. > :41:28.spend it according to local need. It seems this approach has led to a
:41:28. > :41:33.wide interpretation of what the purpose of the bonus is. With cash
:41:33. > :41:37.strapped authorities using it to plug holes in their finances, while
:41:37. > :41:40.others, like Torbay's MP claiming it is meant for more local homes.
:41:40. > :41:47.In the meantime people like Debbie are left to deal with the
:41:47. > :41:50.consequences of the lack of affordable housing. Adrian, on your
:41:50. > :41:55.website you seem to be under the impression Torbay Council is using
:41:55. > :41:58.this money to build more home, as an ongoing thing. That is no the --
:41:58. > :42:03.not the case. They should be. Although the money is a reward for
:42:03. > :42:08.the homes that have been built, and under the localism agenda the Local
:42:08. > :42:13.Authorities are free to spend the money as they would, should they...
:42:13. > :42:17.If you were analysing the need in the local area, in Torbay, where
:42:17. > :42:21.you have over 3,000 people on the waiting list, you have the lowest
:42:21. > :42:25.proportion of social housing of a town of its similar size anywhere
:42:25. > :42:30.in the country, you have a housing crisis, we have had it for decades,
:42:30. > :42:35.if you have that revenue coming in, as a result of having provided some
:42:35. > :42:40.extra housing, then you should, I think, in my view, use it to house
:42:40. > :42:44.people who need secure regulated rent, social housing. Should the
:42:44. > :42:48.Government have ringfenced this? The temptation... Not every
:42:48. > :42:51.council's need is the same. But Torbay does have an acute housing
:42:51. > :42:57.problem and I would have thought the logical thing would have been
:42:57. > :43:01.to use the money for housing. your website a bit misleading. It
:43:01. > :43:07.suggests that is what the council is doing That is what it should be
:43:07. > :43:11.doing. That is a great pity. I rather hope they would. Alison,
:43:11. > :43:15.Labour has been critical of the New Homes Bonus, full stop. Yes, for a
:43:15. > :43:20.range of reasons, just look at where it is starting. We have house
:43:20. > :43:24.building at the lowest level in history, down to 121,000 a year.
:43:24. > :43:29.Desperate need for homes. New Homes Bonus, the spin on it was that it
:43:29. > :43:34.would result in new homes being built. That clearly isn't the case.
:43:34. > :43:39.In some Local Authorities we have got them converting big houses to
:43:39. > :43:44.bedsits so it has become a bedsit bonus f you look at the figures,
:43:44. > :43:46.there is a lot more Band Aid properties appearing in posh London
:43:46. > :43:51.boroughs like Westminster and Kensington and Chelsea. That isn't
:43:51. > :43:57.what was intended as part of this process, equally you have local
:43:57. > :44:02.councils who are cash strapped, and your piece was right, and this is
:44:02. > :44:07.money that in years three, four and five, and grant Shaps the Housing
:44:07. > :44:10.Minister hasn't really made this clear will be top sliced from those
:44:11. > :44:18.Local Authority, you can understand why some of them potentially are
:44:18. > :44:23.using nit this way. Despite the fact it not what we want to see.
:44:23. > :44:28.You should spend it on housing because it might not be there in
:44:28. > :44:32.the future. But the temptation it is almost irresistable for a cash
:44:32. > :44:36.strapped council to divert this into the general.... One hopes you
:44:36. > :44:40.have elected mayors or councillors who will analyse what the real
:44:40. > :44:45.needs are in their local area and will respond to it. That sadly
:44:45. > :44:48.doesn't appear to have been in case in Torbay. Alison seems to suggest
:44:48. > :44:53.this policy is failing particularly against the background of the
:44:53. > :44:57.enormous cut to affordable housing budget. It will deliver more units
:44:57. > :45:03.of housing than the last Government was able to provide. It won't.
:45:03. > :45:07.is the clear intention of the policy. If you want to tackle the
:45:07. > :45:10.housing crisis, there is a lot more you need to do you have to look at
:45:10. > :45:15.things like bringing into use the homes that are empty, particularly
:45:15. > :45:19.the second homes your are to look at things like site value rating to
:45:19. > :45:23.bring in people who landbank and prevent land being developed that
:45:23. > :45:26.is will and got planning permission, that is really where we node to be
:45:26. > :45:30.poking Government b and that is what we are trying to do at the
:45:30. > :45:34.moment. The Tories, I suspect the Liberal Democrats would say to
:45:34. > :45:37.Labour your track record for building houses was so poor
:45:37. > :45:46.anything they do would be better. Better than the current Government.
:45:46. > :45:52.We were up towards 2 10,000 new homes towards 250,000 -- 250,000
:45:52. > :45:55.home target when the recession hit r we kept housing bibeing built
:45:55. > :46:00.through the recession in duful times. The figures have gone off a
:46:00. > :46:03.cliff edge. The New Homes Bonus will not deliver the new homes we
:46:03. > :46:06.desperately need. We will str to wait and see. Another big issue for
:46:06. > :46:09.the region. In November the Chancellor confirmed all water
:46:09. > :46:13.customers in the south-west will get a �50 reduction in their sky
:46:13. > :46:16.high bills. The Government's decision to use public money to
:46:17. > :46:20.bring our bill downs was unexpected and gratefully received but now the
:46:20. > :46:23.elation has subsided, it is clear Devon and Cornwall will still be
:46:24. > :46:27.saddled with by far the highest bills in the country this week a
:46:27. > :46:34.delegation of MPs headed in the direction of the water minister and
:46:34. > :46:38.asked him for more. A glass of tap water costs more in the south-west
:46:38. > :46:41.than anywhere else in the country. That maybe hard to swallow but it
:46:41. > :46:49.is what happens when 3% of the population are asked to pay for the
:46:49. > :46:53.clean-up of 30% of the coast. But there is some help on its way.
:46:53. > :46:58.families across the south-west facing the highest water charges in
:46:58. > :47:04.Britain, the Government will cut the household bills of all South
:47:04. > :47:07.West Water companies by �50 a year. But you don't have to look far to
:47:07. > :47:14.find south-west customers who despite the help, will still
:47:14. > :47:17.struggle to pay their water bill. Jeanette is a mum of four and
:47:17. > :47:23.receives Income Support. It allows her to claim for the water discount
:47:23. > :47:28.scheme. The amount she pays is capped at the average bill which
:47:28. > :47:32.this year is �517. I find it very hard. It is a lot to have to pay on
:47:32. > :47:36.a regular basis I am very lucky, I have got it supplemented so I am
:47:36. > :47:40.paying less than most of the people in this area, I am grateful that is
:47:40. > :47:45.the case, but I would prefer it to be even less. I am sure the people
:47:45. > :47:50.who are paying the full amount would prefer for theirs to be less,
:47:50. > :47:54.because everyone is finding it hard to pay. The total cost is �3
:47:54. > :48:00.million. South-west customers who fully paid their -- pay their bill
:48:00. > :48:04.pay �3.40 extra to fund that. Pete currently pays �1200 a year for his
:48:04. > :48:10.water and is angry South West Water bills will increase again in April.
:48:10. > :48:16.We are having to pay through the nose for our bill, I am really
:48:16. > :48:20.annoyed. Then with the 4.7 coming on this year, I feel that the extra
:48:20. > :48:25.to help other people, which I am all for, I feel it should be down
:48:25. > :48:30.round the country and not in the sett, so we come closer to some of
:48:30. > :48:35.the other bills. The Consumer Council for water feel the scheme
:48:35. > :48:38.should be fairer. I would like to see the Government contributing to
:48:38. > :48:43.the water shore scheme in partnership with industry, that is
:48:43. > :48:47.the fair way to do it. What is wrong is to have those who pay but
:48:47. > :48:51.who can only just pay, paying for those who can't pay. That is the
:48:51. > :48:55.injustice. This week MPs from the south-west met with the Environment
:48:55. > :49:01.Minister to discuss the idea of using the national average bill of
:49:01. > :49:06.�350, as the capping point rather than the south-west's �517. What I
:49:06. > :49:10.am suggesting if we had a national scheme that money would be spread
:49:10. > :49:14.out and it would have a real impact on water poverty in the south-west,
:49:14. > :49:18.with a smaller impact in terms of the bills to even else across the
:49:18. > :49:22.country. But ministers feel a national water scheme would be seen
:49:22. > :49:26.by the public ass another tax. are keen to see as much help as
:49:26. > :49:30.possible being done to those who are having difficulty paying their
:49:30. > :49:36.bills. Not just in the south-west but elsewhere, but we have to do
:49:36. > :49:40.that as fairly as possible, and if we were to increase the water shore
:49:40. > :49:44.commitment on the basis of a national scheme, it would be a
:49:44. > :49:47.considerable increase cost to many. MPs in the south-west say they will
:49:48. > :49:53.continue to offer ideas to the Government, to find a way the
:49:53. > :49:58.reduce the region's water bills. Adrian was one of the MPs who went
:49:58. > :50:03.along with Dan, so I know you agree with him. Alison, do you agree that
:50:03. > :50:07.the water shore scheme should be expanded, put it on a national
:50:07. > :50:11.basis? Yes any frontbench cliques are looking at this. They are
:50:11. > :50:15.looking how you finance it. Whether there are new or different ways we
:50:15. > :50:20.could help fund it. It does have a cost, that is part of the reason...
:50:20. > :50:25.How big is that cost? I haven't got a figure for that off the top of my
:50:25. > :50:29.head. It is significant. The point is we are looking at whether or not
:50:29. > :50:35.water debt, a lot of people don't pay their water bills. Some who
:50:35. > :50:40.can't, a lot of people who won't, it works out �15 a head
:50:40. > :50:44.perhousehold a year. Whether or not be applying the same rules to water
:50:44. > :50:50.bill payers as energy bill payer, in terms of being able to identify
:50:50. > :50:55.people, particularly in the private rented sector, whether or not we
:50:55. > :50:59.can leave additional money. That is certainly something Labour is
:50:59. > :51:04.looking at. That is what the Government is looking at. Sometimes
:51:04. > :51:09.you have meetings, the minister saysly go away. It seems to me he
:51:09. > :51:14.is saying no.. He certainly taking the Treasury line if they were to
:51:14. > :51:22.do this it would be a form of taxation. But that is what they
:51:22. > :51:26.came up with when we wanted the �50 discount, they oppose it pu
:51:26. > :51:31.eventually we won through. Matched by the Treasury. Thanks to the
:51:31. > :51:35.Treasury pushing through. Now the difficulty for DEFRA is anything
:51:35. > :51:40.they want to do, apparently had to come out of their budget there may
:51:40. > :51:44.be a way of let us look at it, can you do something with the budget.
:51:44. > :51:48.Can you get the subsidy from somewhere else? I don't think
:51:48. > :51:53.anybody is going to give up. I don't think there is difference of
:51:53. > :51:57.opinion that we want to get something more than just the �50
:51:57. > :52:04.discount. But there is a concern that within three or four years the
:52:04. > :52:09.�50 we are receiving is toing to be absorbed by other costs within the
:52:09. > :52:13.system. And the south-west again will sort of be playing a -- paying
:52:13. > :52:17.a disproportionate amount. I think what we have, we will see bills
:52:17. > :52:20.that will be closer to the national average rather than 40% higher,
:52:20. > :52:26.that has been a price we have been trying to reach, we have got it,
:52:26. > :52:29.but there is more we want to do. think if I can, I think we need to
:52:29. > :52:35.understand water is something we used to take for granted and with
:52:35. > :52:38.what is going on we can't. And there are significant costs in
:52:38. > :52:48.ensuring we have fresh clean water. Our regular round up of the
:52:48. > :52:51.
:52:51. > :52:55.Visions like this have been worrying the MP for Exeter. The
:52:55. > :52:58.Government says local partnerships have to pay for the city's flood
:52:58. > :53:02.defences but Ben Bradshaw says that is not good enough. The Government
:53:02. > :53:05.is passing the buck down to local people to fund what should be
:53:06. > :53:09.nationally important schemes. went to Downing Street, be the
:53:09. > :53:15.County Council leader asked the Prime Minister for more money to
:53:15. > :53:20.keep pensioners on the buses for free. The Government's Health Bill
:53:20. > :53:24.was denied spiritual comfort by the bishop of Exeter though he stopped
:53:24. > :53:32.short of reading the last rites. I'm not convinced the bill as yet
:53:32. > :53:38.does have those mechanisms that provide for joined up thinking.
:53:38. > :53:42.Reports from Aidan of an assassination attempt on Baroness
:53:42. > :53:46.Nicholson were denied by the Foreign Office. And times might be
:53:46. > :53:56.hard but Plymouth City Council is splashing out to give Smee on the's
:53:56. > :54:02.
:54:02. > :54:04.You signed a motion saying it should but voted with the foft.
:54:04. > :54:09.signed a cross-party motion and have written to the Secretary of
:54:09. > :54:14.State to release it. This was political posturing, two weeks time
:54:14. > :54:19.a tribunal will decide whether or not to publish it. I didn't need to
:54:19. > :54:23.see the register, and I don't need to see it in order to support Lords
:54:23. > :54:27.amendments to support the bill. suspect you don't either because
:54:27. > :54:32.you have been doing that consistently. Were you wasting an
:54:32. > :54:36.opportunity this week, using opposition day debate to talk about
:54:36. > :54:39.something that was academic. It is indicative of the way the
:54:39. > :54:45.Government operates. So much of the legislation since the coalition
:54:45. > :54:49.came to power has involved leming lating effectively, blind if I the
:54:49. > :54:54.use the term, without having access to important documents so whether
:54:54. > :54:59.it is the national planning policy framework. He says you were the
:54:59. > :55:04.same when you were in Government. Three times. We were trying to be
:55:04. > :55:08.as open as possible and ensure people had draft regulation, there
:55:08. > :55:12.has been a pattern through every piece of legislation with this
:55:12. > :55:18.Government, and it is not good enough. The public won't wear it.