:01:43. > :01:53.In the south-west, Cornwall is on course to get another seven years
:01:53. > :01:53.
:01:53. > :30:28.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1714 seconds
:30:28. > :30:31.of European funding, but is that Hello, I'm Lucie Fisher - coming up
:30:31. > :30:34.on the Sunday Politics in the South West. The warning that a pothole
:30:34. > :30:37.pandemic will mean 20 percent of our roads are unusable within five
:30:37. > :30:40.years. And for the next 20 minutes, I'm
:30:40. > :30:43.joined by the Labour peer Tony Berkeley, who's also Harbour
:30:43. > :30:51.Commissioner for the Port of Fowey, and Conservative MEP for the South
:30:51. > :30:54.West, Julie Girling. Welcome both of you to the programme. This week,
:30:54. > :30:56.we've heard Cornwall is likely to get another seven years of the
:30:57. > :31:02.highest level of European grant funding worth hundreds of millions
:31:02. > :31:05.of pounds. Is this good news or bad news in the sense that it is
:31:05. > :31:09.hundreds of millions of pounds, but it means that Cornwall is still a
:31:09. > :31:15.failing economy? It is a curate's egg issue, it is based
:31:15. > :31:19.disappointing that Cornwall hasn't reached the level to reach
:31:19. > :31:25.transitional funding, which would have been a success, however, we
:31:25. > :31:29.don't want to get too depressed, because we all know that the last
:31:29. > :31:33.few years have been extremely difficult across the country, so it
:31:33. > :31:39.is no surprise that Cornwall spite the moved off the trajectory and
:31:39. > :31:46.didn't quite make it -- slightly moved off. I don't think it is a
:31:46. > :31:51.sign of favour -- failure, I think it is an opportunity to see how we
:31:51. > :31:54.deliver that assistants, and another note local economic
:31:54. > :31:58.partnerships are looking at that close to, but we need to move
:31:58. > :32:02.forward to the next stage. You live in Cornwall, has this come as a
:32:02. > :32:09.surprise to you, as somebody who lives and works around the region?
:32:09. > :32:13.Some people would be surprised that this level of funding, when you see
:32:13. > :32:18.across the news that places like Portugal and Greece are in dire
:32:18. > :32:22.trouble, to be put alongside the poorest parts, Bulgaria, Romania,
:32:23. > :32:26.might be a surprise? In some ways it is surprising, but you're
:32:27. > :32:31.looking at the figures, and the Commission take these figures very
:32:31. > :32:41.seriously, we haven't quite reached the 75% of the bridge, which is the
:32:41. > :32:42.
:32:42. > :32:47.criterion in Cornwall. -- 75% of the average. I go to Romania quite
:32:47. > :32:53.often, actually come on business, and yes, there is a lot of poverty
:32:53. > :32:57.there, but you can't balance them all, and in the same way. Even
:32:57. > :33:01.though we have grown, we do need this money in Cornwall. Stay with
:33:01. > :33:03.us for the rest of the programme, we will come back to you.
:33:03. > :33:12.The legislation which will bring about a national benefits cap was
:33:12. > :33:15.passed last week. Labour says if the government was serious about
:33:15. > :33:18.making people better off in work than on welfare, it would have
:33:18. > :33:21.introduced a local benefits cap. Ministers aren't ruling out some
:33:21. > :33:24.form of localised welfare system in the future, but this week one of
:33:24. > :33:32.the South West's Liberal Democrat MPs said the idea was "absolute
:33:32. > :33:36.nonsense". Tamsin Melville reports. Volunteering for 16 hours a week at
:33:36. > :33:40.a Camborne church dropping is a lifeline at a four rows. At 60
:33:40. > :33:44.years old, she is a single mother and is struggling to find any paid
:33:44. > :33:50.work that will make it worth her while to come off benefits. I have
:33:50. > :33:57.been to the Jobcentres, and work is very hard to get. I have got an 18-
:33:57. > :34:05.year-old son, he can't find a job. So woodworking not make financial
:34:05. > :34:09.sense for you? No. Ministers are hoping their welfare shake-up will
:34:10. > :34:14.help make work pay for people like crows in places like Camborne. But
:34:14. > :34:17.there is an ongoing debate about how they should be achieved. As
:34:18. > :34:23.part of the government's welfare reforms, there is now our national
:34:23. > :34:27.benefit cap of a �26,000 a year. But it is the possibility of a
:34:27. > :34:33.localised rate could still be on the agenda. Here is what the man at
:34:33. > :34:38.the top had to say last week. don't regionalised benefits, that
:34:38. > :34:41.is a debate to be had, and it may be something we need to look at.
:34:41. > :34:46.The national cap will be felt most in London and the south-east, where
:34:46. > :34:52.housing benefit levels are highest. In somewhere like Camborne, it is
:34:53. > :34:57.unlikely to make much difference. Labour have been proposing local
:34:57. > :35:02.benefits caps. The issue is that working should pay more than been
:35:02. > :35:07.on benefits overrule. Within that, you have got to have some sort of
:35:07. > :35:10.benefit cap also what we are saying is that cap should take account of
:35:10. > :35:14.local circumstances and specifically local housing costs,
:35:14. > :35:18.because they are the big variables across the country. But critics say
:35:18. > :35:23.Labour's idea would have to mean regionalised in all of the benefits.
:35:23. > :35:30.This could lead to people in welfare dependent part of the
:35:30. > :35:33.south-west were like Torbay, getting less. There are big
:35:33. > :35:39.differences between the economy in Bristol and the economy in South
:35:39. > :35:42.Devon. Is this going to be linked to wages? Maybe that is a good
:35:42. > :35:45.thing. Maybe that would put benefits up in South Devon. But the
:35:45. > :35:49.government is not going to be putting up benefits, it is only
:35:49. > :35:54.going to be looking at areas where they can cut benefits. Whether in
:35:54. > :35:58.Torbay or Bristol, it is a no-no. Those in favour of ritualised and
:35:58. > :36:02.welfare state it could shake up the system, where there is currently a
:36:02. > :36:07.less incentive to get jobs in areas like Camborne. At the church, this
:36:07. > :36:11.gets short shrift. It is a lovely idea in principle, and all these
:36:11. > :36:15.ideas and grit in London to stop and then you going to the counties
:36:16. > :36:22.and see the reality, where are the jobs we are going to put these
:36:22. > :36:25.people into? There are no jobs out there. With the welfare reform but
:36:25. > :36:29.only just passed into law, any further changes are unlikely to
:36:29. > :36:31.happen in the near future, but with an announcement expected soon on
:36:31. > :36:34.whether public sector workers will be paid different amounts depending
:36:35. > :36:42.on where they live, some are worried about the direction of
:36:42. > :36:47.government thinking. You are supporting this as a
:36:47. > :36:53.proposition. Can you tell us why it? And supporting the concept of
:36:53. > :36:57.regional differences. -- I am supporting. At the south-west is an
:36:57. > :37:01.enormous region, and what is good in Gloucestershire it is
:37:01. > :37:06.inappropriate for Cornwall. I think the better way to do it would be to
:37:06. > :37:10.do it on the basis of a travel-to- work area. That is where people
:37:10. > :37:14.live there can get work and at what rate call or cannot, rather than
:37:14. > :37:19.having a great big area of the south-west, which is much too big
:37:19. > :37:23.to even think of as one rate, for example. But you do think there
:37:23. > :37:28.should be original cap, and make it clear there is a difference outside
:37:28. > :37:35.London? Would you make of this idea? I understand the attraction,
:37:35. > :37:40.but I think in practice, it would be very complicated. I think an
:37:40. > :37:45.overall regional issue is crazy. The south-west is just a political
:37:45. > :37:55.construct, not a place. If you were to look at it committee would have
:37:55. > :38:01.to look at it by GDP, individual councillors, Torbay, parts of
:38:01. > :38:07.Bristol, and Iraq even parts of the Cotswolds which got on extremely
:38:07. > :38:11.low income levels -- there are even part of the Cotswolds. A if housing
:38:11. > :38:16.is cheaper in the South West than in central London, you should make
:38:16. > :38:20.sure the benefits reflect that? There is totally a huge difference
:38:20. > :38:25.between central London and parts of the south-west, but not all a bit,
:38:25. > :38:30.by any means. So you would have to be a very targeted. You would have
:38:30. > :38:34.to make work pay, that is the issue? Are that is the popular idea
:38:34. > :38:39.across the board, that people are better off working than on benefit.
:38:39. > :38:44.Of course. The National Cup is the start of that. As Iain Duncan Smith
:38:44. > :38:47.says that a maybe there is a debate to be had, but it will be something
:38:47. > :38:53.to jump into straight away, may be a refinement of the system at a
:38:53. > :38:58.later point, but at the moment, think we should stick with the
:38:58. > :39:02.26,000 National. Liam Byrne said he couldn't run out the possibility
:39:02. > :39:11.that a regional cabin tested and may end up meaning that in London,
:39:11. > :39:15.when you look at the cap in place on benefits could go up, at the
:39:15. > :39:21.cost of the regions. What would you make of that, would you still
:39:21. > :39:26.support that? I would, because if London needs people on low paid
:39:26. > :39:32.jobs to keep it going... �26,000 is a lot of benefit, which
:39:32. > :39:36.is why there has been at Cap. at national cap, K collided at that
:39:36. > :39:39.level, and the cost of housing and transport in London is so much
:39:39. > :39:42.higher, there is a logic to saying it should go up in London to
:39:42. > :39:47.reflect that, otherwise there is not much point in having a
:39:47. > :39:53.variation. You mention that Iain Duncan Smith has been talking about
:39:53. > :39:56.the fact that this could happen. Do you think it is likely that the
:39:56. > :40:01.Conservatives, the coalition government, it would introduce
:40:01. > :40:05.this? As I understand it it is not an idea that is anything more than
:40:05. > :40:08.an idea at the moment. Of course, it is a possibility that can be
:40:08. > :40:15.explored, because this is not an ill-thought through policy, it has
:40:15. > :40:19.been on the table for a long time. But I don't think it is there in
:40:20. > :40:23.the front row, waiting to be... have to stop you there.
:40:23. > :40:25.There's a warning that one in five of the region's roads could be
:40:25. > :40:28.unusable within five years, unless councils spend millions more on
:40:28. > :40:32.pothole repair. The alarm's been raised by the industry that helps
:40:32. > :40:41.resurface roads, but it is based on a survey of more than one hundred
:40:41. > :40:46.highway engineers. We told John Henderson to hit the road.
:40:46. > :40:51.Holes in the road, no laughing matter. They infuriate drivers and
:40:51. > :40:58.residents. Two years ago, fed up people blocked a road in Tibberton
:40:58. > :41:03.to get something done. What is it going to do to a child? In the last
:41:03. > :41:10.few years, but Hulse had reached epidemic levels. Three bad winters
:41:10. > :41:18.haven't helped. Snow, ice and rain have all done the roads in. What we
:41:18. > :41:22.are battling in is an ageing network which is being starved of
:41:22. > :41:27.funding, and it means that we have got bits of the highway that will,
:41:27. > :41:31.from time to time, start to break up. Local authorities in the region
:41:31. > :41:39.have been forced to respond, many have done so in the tried and
:41:39. > :41:48.tested way. Just before we put the tarmac in, and that will give it a
:41:48. > :41:53.longer life, hopefully, stops the water getting underneath. Last year,
:41:53. > :41:59.1.7 million potholes were filled across England and Wales. In Devon,
:41:59. > :42:04.it was 120,000 being repaired, the year before, it was 180,000.
:42:04. > :42:11.Cornwall has plucked far fewer, but its budget last year was still
:42:11. > :42:14.�600,000. Despite all the work, it seems there is still much to do. A
:42:14. > :42:18.new report claims it will take English councils 11 years to clear
:42:18. > :42:23.the maintenance backlog. We have reached the stage where the
:42:23. > :42:30.highways engineers are telling us that one of five Ridge will fail
:42:30. > :42:34.completely in the next few years. - - one in five roads. Filling
:42:34. > :42:42.potholes is an expensive sticking- plaster. 20 times more costly than
:42:43. > :42:46.long-term measures like preventive resurfacing -- resurfacing.
:42:46. > :42:50.Operation upgrade its April �0.1 billion programme in a while,
:42:50. > :42:55.halfway through its two-year cycle. Similar numbers have been going on
:42:55. > :43:00.in Torbay and Exeter. Few would dispute a long-term fix is the best
:43:00. > :43:05.solution, but it all comes down to one thing - money. It is all down
:43:05. > :43:09.to investment or lack of it, over 15 to 20 years. We just simply
:43:09. > :43:15.haven't been investing enough money in the road to keep pace and make
:43:15. > :43:21.sure they are maintained properly to stop it needs long-term, planned,
:43:21. > :43:24.preventative maintenance programmes. Labour says it savage cuts to road
:43:24. > :43:30.budgets need to be reversed. The government argues it the last two
:43:30. > :43:33.years it has given �300 million. Emergency funding for road repairs
:43:33. > :43:39.across England and Wales. The pressures are still there. Only
:43:39. > :43:43.this week, Devon's cabinet approved a �3 million cut to its highways
:43:43. > :43:50.budget, with the warning that this and any further reductions will
:43:50. > :43:55.severely affect the condition of the county's road network.
:43:55. > :43:59.Potholes, the bane of some people's lives in the south-west. Car repair
:43:59. > :44:03.bills going up. On your side, you say that one of the few things that
:44:03. > :44:11.would improve the area you live in is pure pot holes. Would you stand
:44:11. > :44:16.by that? Of course. Pot holes are a sign of failure. If roads are
:44:16. > :44:21.properly maintained, enough money is spent, you don't get them. We
:44:21. > :44:28.are talking about the county are was a cad a councillor for 10 years,
:44:28. > :44:33.the backlog was millions. This issue has been with us for decades,
:44:33. > :44:38.we never address it. We never have enough money to address it can we
:44:38. > :44:45.are always ticking a Band Aid on. So does the government need to
:44:45. > :44:51.address this's it does, it does mean more money. But we have to
:44:51. > :44:56.make decisions. It is a great pace of localism. When councils do their
:44:56. > :45:00.consultations on budgets, people want more money spent on roads, but
:45:00. > :45:03.they want more spent on elderly care, we had an important report on
:45:03. > :45:07.that. Sometimes if the infrastructure is there, a good
:45:08. > :45:11.economy can be built on it. Absolutely, that is why the
:45:11. > :45:17.Plymouth programme sounds great. Because they are concentrating on
:45:17. > :45:22.the infrastructure. You are a cyclist, a keen cyclist, do you
:45:22. > :45:29.come across but holds much, are they any issue? Coming up to hear
:45:29. > :45:34.today, a lot of new servicing has gone on in Plymouth. -- surfacing.
:45:34. > :45:41.Elsewhere, there are problems. Iraq, but the asphalt industry
:45:41. > :45:49.would say this, wouldn't they? It is a question of localism what do
:45:49. > :45:54.you spend the money on a. It is of be decided not to give more. One
:45:54. > :46:01.answer is for people to drive a bit slow, then they wouldn't have the
:46:01. > :46:07.car so much. Unless you are a cyclist. What about the tourists
:46:07. > :46:11.coming to the region? Does it put tourists of? I am not sure any
:46:11. > :46:14.region -- our region is any worse than anywhere else. If you go to
:46:14. > :46:19.Brussels, where I live half the time, the holes in the road are
:46:19. > :46:23.phenomenal. There is nothing like those. I am not saying that makes
:46:23. > :46:28.ours good, but I don't think we want to be too self-critical about
:46:28. > :46:31.it. We have to make those decisions locally. I am all for local
:46:31. > :46:37.councils deciding... You have to make sure you have the money in the
:46:37. > :46:42.first place. As you know, the government, in the very bad winter
:46:42. > :46:47.the before last, �300 million extra was put into repairing the right.
:46:47. > :46:54.It is not that they don't react. There is a massive not that need to
:46:54. > :47:04.be put in. -- amount. Moving on to our regular round-up of the
:47:04. > :47:07.
:47:07. > :47:14.A coroner criticised the South West Water Authority for gambling with
:47:14. > :47:19.people's lives following the poisoning of 1988. The victims need
:47:19. > :47:24.compensation. The government has a moral and political responsibility
:47:24. > :47:28.to the people so badly affected. A Devon woman prepared to take her
:47:28. > :47:31.fight to wear a cross to the European Court of Human Rights.
:47:31. > :47:35.Former leader of Devon County Council has been fined for drink
:47:35. > :47:40.driving. Chris Dean Tennant resigned her Cabinet role but will
:47:40. > :47:44.carry -- stay on as counsellor. Community would be to carry on
:47:44. > :47:47.helping them. The man in charge of parking in
:47:47. > :47:53.Torbay was caught and a double yellow. He says he stuck to the
:47:53. > :48:02.rules, which has made some people angry. For him to come along an
:48:02. > :48:12.incident at -- Park insensitively is not playing the game. I will be
:48:12. > :48:15.
:48:15. > :48:19.Let's look at this issue of Christians wanting to wear a cross
:48:19. > :48:23.to work. A Devon woman taking her fight to wear a cross to the
:48:23. > :48:30.European Court of Human Rights. What is your view on this? Should
:48:30. > :48:35.people be allowed to wear across? think if they wanted, they should
:48:35. > :48:40.be free to do that. But they also believe that when we get to
:48:40. > :48:46.Parliament, the House of Lords and we shouldn't have bishops, we
:48:46. > :48:51.should have separate religion, politics and government. A bit more
:48:51. > :48:57.like they do in France, maybe. What is your view on this? In France,
:48:57. > :49:03.they do have a secular state, but they also banned the wearing of
:49:03. > :49:05.things, the hijab, in schools, which I don't agree with. I think
:49:05. > :49:12.that within a region of discretion, you should be allowed to display
:49:12. > :49:15.your religious beliefs in that way. You should be free to do so. Do you
:49:15. > :49:21.think we need a Bill of Rights to clarify that? Attic eventually that
:49:21. > :49:24.it what we are going to have. -- I think eventually. It needs to be
:49:24. > :49:30.set out to people what their rights are, because everyone is currently
:49:30. > :49:36.claiming human rights on everything. It has gone completely bonkers, we
:49:36. > :49:39.need to get down to... All this week, there has been support for
:49:39. > :49:42.her right to wear a cross, if they should lose the case in the
:49:42. > :49:46.European Court, it could be a bit of a contentious one, because they
:49:46. > :49:50.have said they might do something about it. It will be another layer
:49:50. > :49:54.of doubt heaped on the right of the European Court to make these
:49:54. > :50:01.judgments for us, and it will be more pressure on her pink a British