:01:16. > :01:19.In the South West - the parents in Torbay who hope for more Grammar
:01:19. > :01:29.Schools and the people who fear for the future of these fields outside
:01:29. > :01:29.
:01:29. > :37:43.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2173 seconds
:37:43. > :37:46.Although,, up on the Sunday Politics in the South West. The
:37:46. > :37:50.parents her would like to see more grammar school places in South
:37:50. > :37:53.Devon. And for the next 20 minutes I am
:37:53. > :37:59.joined by Neil Parish, the Conservative MP for Tiverton and
:37:59. > :38:04.Honiton, and Darren Cowell, Labour MP for Torbay. Welcome to the
:38:04. > :38:08.programme. This week the Government has faced criticism for introducing
:38:08. > :38:12.VAT to hot food. Do you think this is a good move?
:38:12. > :38:17.As low as it is a Devon pasty but are not a Cornish one, because
:38:17. > :38:22.Devon pasties are much better. It is only tightening up on operation
:38:22. > :38:28.to make sure everyone pays VAT on hot food, because some pasties are
:38:28. > :38:32.already being charged, therefore it is only at tidying up. I know it
:38:32. > :38:37.has captured the imagination of the public, but some pasties already
:38:37. > :38:42.served hot are charged VAT. We as weekend the Government may be
:38:42. > :38:46.thinking themselves unpopular and thinking it perhaps maybe not worth
:38:46. > :38:49.it. -- this weekend. It has been one of those things
:38:49. > :38:54.that has borne out of control. My imagine the Chancellor will look at
:38:54. > :38:59.it, but some shops and takeaways are already having to charge VAT
:38:59. > :39:05.and others are not. Perhaps it is not such a terrible thing, but look
:39:05. > :39:11.at it in the cold light of day again and see what the reaction is.
:39:11. > :39:17.There is certainly confusion and muddle around this. What is ambient
:39:17. > :39:22.temperature? In January it is probably different to August. There
:39:22. > :39:27.is a huge amount of confusion. What is most important is that any
:39:27. > :39:31.measures don't impact upon our important food industry. It is not
:39:31. > :39:36.just pasties, it is sausage rolls, anything that can be served hot or
:39:36. > :39:40.potentially cold. We cannot damage that trade. Thank you for your
:39:40. > :39:48.thoughts on that. There were fears that cutting red
:39:48. > :39:53.tape in planning would lead to developers -- and Development
:39:53. > :39:57.Charter. The function of sustainable development is no water
:39:57. > :40:00.down, and the onus is no one councils to decide where to build
:40:00. > :40:06.thousands of homes in the South West. There are still some who
:40:06. > :40:12.think the countryside is at risk. With a view like this, Ian Hubbard
:40:12. > :40:16.says it is hard not to be a proud Truro resident. Where we are
:40:16. > :40:21.standing we can actually see green fields, and you cannot say that
:40:21. > :40:25.about many cities in this country. He is a campaigner for sustainable
:40:26. > :40:30.Development, which has just got the go-ahead for the local council. He
:40:30. > :40:37.is still worried about the future despite concessions on the use of
:40:38. > :40:43.brownfield sites first. I liked the bit about the viability
:40:43. > :40:49.of town centres, I like the bit about out-of-town supermarket being
:40:49. > :40:54.a last resort, but does it actually mean what it says?
:40:54. > :41:01.Rejecting top down housing targets, the new guidance puts emphasis on
:41:01. > :41:03.local plans. Local authorities will decide how many new Houses are
:41:03. > :41:07.needed and in town and parish councils communities themselves
:41:07. > :41:11.will prioritise where and when Houses shall be built.
:41:11. > :41:16.Cornwall council is working towards a target of more than 40,000 new
:41:16. > :41:19.homes over the next 20 years. It is decisions taken over the next 12
:41:19. > :41:23.months that could affect fields like these on the outskirts of
:41:23. > :41:26.Truro. Consultation in Cornwall is still
:41:26. > :41:32.under way and across the South West: authorities are finalising
:41:32. > :41:38.plans. In Devon, and need for around 75,000 new homes has been
:41:38. > :41:44.identified. In Somerset the figure is 47,000. And in Dorset there is a
:41:44. > :41:49.provisional figure of around 12,500. Councils have one near to get
:41:49. > :41:55.communities engaged and plans in place or leave themselves exposed.
:41:55. > :41:59.If we do not identify a land in the core strategy, developers will
:41:59. > :42:05.cherry-pick parcels of land easier for them to develop and get away
:42:05. > :42:11.with it. We have unique decisions on where housing will goal, a waste
:42:11. > :42:15.will goal, and planners will be able to tell any developers this is
:42:15. > :42:19.where it will goal, you cannot build there.
:42:19. > :42:23.A countryside campaigners could struggle to meet demand in drawing
:42:23. > :42:27.up local plants and question the need to build so many homes at all.
:42:27. > :42:32.A think we have development, but when you think of it, Cornwall is a
:42:32. > :42:38.pfennig area. Although this national planning policy framework
:42:38. > :42:43.calls for councils to earmark land, 5% of land for future development,
:42:43. > :42:48.it will not take many years before Cornwall is used up, and then what
:42:48. > :42:52.happens? He we with around 23,000 people on Cornwall's housing
:42:52. > :42:55.register, average prices nine times average wages, and a growing
:42:55. > :42:59.population, affordable housing campaigners say the new approach is
:42:59. > :43:02.long overdue. When people see endless,
:43:02. > :43:09.unattractive housing estates circling historic, beautiful tones
:43:09. > :43:13.and ruining them, they get I write about it. -- beautiful towns. A
:43:13. > :43:18.hope the new framework will mean that better schemes can go forward
:43:18. > :43:22.more easily and more quickly. We will get the homes people need, but
:43:22. > :43:27.unattractive schemes that destroy open spaces that people care about
:43:27. > :43:31.are less likely to warhead. There are warnings developers could
:43:31. > :43:37.rush now to try and exploit the new relaxed rules before local plans
:43:37. > :43:40.are put in place. Although it is unclear how the new guidance will
:43:40. > :43:46.be implemented, some campaigners say this could be a lawyer's
:43:46. > :43:50.charter. To discuss this from our Truro
:43:50. > :43:56.studio we have Stephen Gilbert, Lib Dem MP for Newquay and some Borstal.
:43:56. > :44:02.Welcome to the programme. Will thus become a lawyer's charter?
:44:02. > :44:05.I don't think my concern is that it will become a lawyer's charter, we
:44:05. > :44:10.now have one year for local authorities like Cornwall to put in
:44:10. > :44:13.place their core strategies and neighbourhood plans. At that point
:44:13. > :44:19.local people will have much more control over the planning system
:44:19. > :44:23.than they have over recent years. Until then, my concern is that
:44:23. > :44:26.developers will put in speculative applications, appeal for non-
:44:26. > :44:32.determination where local planning committees either take too long or
:44:32. > :44:36.come out with a no, that what we will see is the localism principle
:44:36. > :44:40.that should be embedded in our planning system being overridden by
:44:40. > :44:43.developers... So sorry to interrupt you, but there are strategies in
:44:43. > :44:51.place in this new policy to stop this from happening.
:44:51. > :44:54.Yes, but we have a hiatus for one year, while quote -- local
:44:54. > :44:58.neighbourhoods gather their core strategies. It is right that this
:44:58. > :45:02.is an urgent task for local authorities and local people. For
:45:03. > :45:07.too long we have had a top-down, regionally led, unaccountable
:45:07. > :45:12.planning system that has dumped development -- developments that
:45:12. > :45:16.communities have not wanted. Do you think Stephen is right about
:45:16. > :45:23.having concerns on the implementation of this policy?
:45:23. > :45:28.In his, I think towns, villages and hamlets must get at their local
:45:28. > :45:34.plants in place. -- local plans in place. What is important right note
:45:34. > :45:38.is to stop... The last Government had at 250,000 target on the South
:45:38. > :45:42.West for homes and that was imposed on Devon and Cornwall and that is
:45:42. > :45:46.not right. Now we have a villages and towns that can look for
:45:46. > :45:51.affordable housing sites and put them in the planning process.
:45:51. > :45:54.Darren, do you think this is a good thing? Do you think it was all top
:45:54. > :46:00.down under Labour and the Conservatives have got this right?
:46:00. > :46:06.For Ashley, at last the Government actually listen, the first draft
:46:06. > :46:09.was a bit of a dog's dinner and badly thought I would. In Torbay we
:46:09. > :46:13.are very much undergoing the neighbourhood planning process
:46:13. > :46:17.already. A but will it provide enough homes? Will you get as many
:46:17. > :46:20.homes needed in Torbay as you would have done with the targets Labour
:46:20. > :46:26.had in place? I think there were sufficient
:46:26. > :46:29.numbers of new homes and jobs. Apparently we are looking at half
:46:29. > :46:33.the number of new homes that were to be introduced under the target
:46:33. > :46:37.system. But it is providing sufficient
:46:37. > :46:43.homes for the actual forecast population growth in any given
:46:43. > :46:50.region. There is no point building on greenfield sites when you can
:46:50. > :46:56.provide the number of properties you need to House people using
:46:56. > :47:02.properties that are brought back into use and using brown fields.
:47:03. > :47:07.Will it end not in my back yard feelings? Surely you're giving that
:47:07. > :47:14.more power, our review? I go things will, I don't think giving power to
:47:14. > :47:19.people to the people in the community will do that.
:47:19. > :47:24.There are many people in Cornwall who are determined to provide
:47:24. > :47:28.affordable housing for the 20,000 people on the waiting list, or the
:47:28. > :47:33.entire generation who are priced out of the housing market now in
:47:33. > :47:37.the South West. What is important is that it goes where local
:47:37. > :47:41.communities go -- wanted to go, that's not what builders want the
:47:41. > :47:45.trouble. The his way, councillors in Kent
:47:45. > :47:50.backed a plan for the first major expansion of a grammar school in
:47:50. > :47:52.England for 50 years. This will give hope to parents and
:47:52. > :47:56.the South West to look at the remaining grammar schools today,
:47:56. > :48:02.more pupils. The concept of expanding grammar-school education
:48:02. > :48:07.remains controversial. After a long day at school...
:48:07. > :48:11.Homework beckons for 10-year-old Tom. But it is not just school what
:48:12. > :48:17.he has to do. On top of that, he is preparing to set his 11-plus
:48:17. > :48:22.examination, which means extra homework. P does not seem to mind,
:48:22. > :48:29.as getting a place at Torquay's grammar-school is his main goal.
:48:29. > :48:36.The facility is our amazing and I just think it will be really good
:48:36. > :48:40.fun to go there. -- the facilities. And a his mum is
:48:40. > :48:44.working hard to support him, paying for weekly private tuition. She has
:48:44. > :48:49.not worries about grammar schools expanding as she thinks they could
:48:49. > :48:52.potentially cast their nets further. By would not be against it. If they
:48:52. > :48:56.can share their skills and abilities and more children can
:48:56. > :49:01.benefit, I don't think there is a problem with that. Neither does
:49:01. > :49:04.Kent County Council. On Thursday, councillors supported plans for the
:49:04. > :49:10.creation of a satellite grammar school in Sevenoaks, possibly on
:49:10. > :49:15.this site. 2,500 parents in the area have already petitioned for
:49:15. > :49:20.rich trouble ahead. It would be the first major expansion of selective
:49:20. > :49:23.education for 50 years. But it is controversial. In 1998, Labour
:49:23. > :49:27.banned the opening of any new grammar school, and the coalition
:49:27. > :49:32.Government has done nothing to change that law. But it is allowing
:49:32. > :49:36.good schools to expand. Records published in February give schools
:49:36. > :49:41.the power to take on more pupils without consultation.
:49:41. > :49:46.This week, a Liberal Democrat peer, Baroness Wolseley, asked the
:49:46. > :49:51.Government to clarify its position. The Minister told her there would
:49:51. > :49:54.be no new grammar schools, but she was not satisfied. A thank my noble
:49:54. > :49:57.friend the Minister for restating that policy, however I don't see
:49:57. > :50:03.how that stacks up with the potential for doubling the number
:50:04. > :50:08.of school places in which a selection operates in certain areas.
:50:08. > :50:12.Under the School Standards and Framework Act, 1998, no new drama
:50:12. > :50:15.stills can open. Can my noble friend tell me, what is the
:50:15. > :50:20.criterion for a new school, and why the planned satellite school in
:50:20. > :50:25.Sevenoaks can claim to not be a new school but part of a grammar school
:50:25. > :50:28.many miles away? David Robinson campaigns against
:50:28. > :50:33.selective education. He is concerned this could set a
:50:33. > :50:36.precedent in places like Torbay. can not see any need for them to be
:50:36. > :50:41.expanding. There is no evidence whatsoever
:50:41. > :50:49.that people from goal to crammers schools do any better. -- that
:50:49. > :50:55.pupils who go to grammar schools. There is evidence that pupils who
:50:56. > :50:59.bought two non-selective schools do better. They are perceived as being
:50:59. > :51:02.better at educating children because they pick of the most
:51:03. > :51:08.intelligent children from a wide area. -- they pick the most
:51:08. > :51:12.intelligent. Last year of the national press
:51:12. > :51:17.were interested that Torquay Boys Grammar School was merging with a
:51:17. > :51:21.local school. But this was dismissed as unfounded speculation
:51:21. > :51:25.in the school's newsletter. No one from the school was available for
:51:25. > :51:29.comment this week. A Tom faces stiff competition to
:51:29. > :51:34.get into his local grammar school. Perhaps if they expand in Torbay
:51:34. > :51:41.future pupils will have a better chance.
:51:41. > :51:45.Neil, new have a grammar school in your constituency, Darren, you have
:51:45. > :51:48.Torquay's grammar school in your patch. Could this lead to an
:51:48. > :51:52.expansion in Devon of grammar schools and should it? A year in
:51:52. > :52:00.favour of grammar schools? The s, at that grammar school is
:52:00. > :52:04.excellent, and so is our Community School, as well. -- yes, I am. It
:52:04. > :52:08.gives parents a choice. If you have an area like Kent, where they run a
:52:08. > :52:18.huge number of children waiting to go to a grammar school, there could
:52:18. > :52:21.well be an idea of creating a campus of sight. Parents and
:52:21. > :52:26.children want choice, and I think it is a case of making sure we
:52:26. > :52:32.invest in grammar schools and academies. It is doing it by the
:52:32. > :52:36.backdoor, isn't it? If you say it is the same grammar
:52:36. > :52:39.school but is ten miles away and will have independent teachers, can
:52:39. > :52:41.you see it as part of the main Ysgol y Berwyn it I will be
:52:41. > :52:47.controlled by the head teacher and grammar-school itself.
:52:47. > :52:51.It could be. The distances could well be a problem. Our Grammar
:52:51. > :52:59.School, for instance, is in a fine spot where it is at the moment, so
:52:59. > :53:02.there may be an argument of moving the school gradually. Why not just
:53:02. > :53:06.abolished the 1998 band and say, let's do this up front and have a
:53:06. > :53:12.new grammar schools? A number of us would say yes to
:53:13. > :53:19.that. In including yourself? including myself. But that is not
:53:19. > :53:22.Government policy. Why do think the whole idea of our education policy
:53:22. > :53:26.to give parents more choice is good and I think grammar-school is part
:53:27. > :53:32.of that. Darren Cowell, argue in favour of
:53:32. > :53:36.grammar schools? Nor, I am not, and in Torbay we had
:53:36. > :53:41.grammar schools in the 1970s, when there was a very strong campaign to
:53:41. > :53:44.obtain them against the Labour Government's then wishes. You we
:53:44. > :53:48.like to see the Torquay Grammar has become part of mainstream
:53:48. > :53:52.schooling? Absolute life. But, sadly, the
:53:52. > :53:56.direction of travel in education at the moment with the roll-out of
:53:56. > :53:58.academies and the number of schools that became a cannabis, the
:53:58. > :54:03.influence of local authorities and councillors on those schools is
:54:03. > :54:06.rapidly diminishing. One is it you do not like? Is it
:54:06. > :54:11.right that 11-year-olds should be put under such pressure?
:54:11. > :54:17.I think there is a lot of pressure throughout the curriculum now, I
:54:17. > :54:21.don't think the eleven-plus is a problem. What I was going to come
:54:21. > :54:27.back on is that the whole education policy is to get parents more
:54:27. > :54:35.choice and governors choice on how to run their schools. If there is
:54:35. > :54:38.an area, where there is division, I think in the past we did not invest
:54:39. > :54:43.enough in secondary education but now we're making sure it is there.
:54:43. > :54:48.That the is a valid point Monk, because in Torbay we had huge
:54:48. > :54:51.investment in grammar schools at the expense of the secondary
:54:51. > :54:56.moderns. We now have a situation where we
:54:56. > :54:58.have a brand new school in Torbay, a community college, and it is
:54:58. > :55:03.interesting that grammar schools are showing an interest in that
:55:03. > :55:13.campus. We now have our regular round-up of
:55:13. > :55:17.The Defence Secretary came to Plymouth to sign a multi-million-
:55:17. > :55:25.pound contract which will secured 1,300 jobs.
:55:25. > :55:31.This will be a our sole location for deep maintenance of submarines.
:55:31. > :55:37.The States of Jersey announced they will plead -- pay compensation to
:55:37. > :55:40.victims of historical told abyss. They are people in St Denis
:55:40. > :55:44.discovered the incinerator plant for their doorstep will go ahead
:55:44. > :55:48.after the Government won its appeal. The campaigners say they have not
:55:48. > :55:53.given up. A wave will continue to raise however much money we have to
:55:53. > :55:57.to carry on the fight. -- we will continue. A centre-right
:55:57. > :56:01.think-tank administers to reconsider plans for a badger cull.
:56:01. > :56:05.And that the Prime Minister made the case for the pasty tax. A I a r
:56:05. > :56:09.pasty eater myself, I go to Cornwall on holiday.
:56:09. > :56:16.What will Cornwall's MPs queued up to defend at the County's signature
:56:16. > :56:22.dish. -- whilst Cornwall's MPs. There is Stephen Gilbert enjoying
:56:22. > :56:30.his pasty. Let's talk about badgers. Neil, you
:56:30. > :56:34.are in favour of culling badgers. Does this move why you?
:56:34. > :56:38.-- worry you? A well, we had clear support from
:56:38. > :56:42.the Secretary of State in the House when she talked about pilot calls.
:56:42. > :56:47.There is disease in cattle and wildlife that we are trying to take
:56:47. > :56:51.disease out of the cattle whilst we still have the disease in badgers.
:56:51. > :56:56.We have to control them. It look slightly this may be reconsidered
:56:56. > :56:59.now. I'd do not think we will. We have
:56:59. > :57:03.decided to have the pilot calls that has been suggested, and as
:57:03. > :57:07.soon as that has finished we will go through to that.
:57:07. > :57:11.Darren Cowell, are you in favour of it? A be like them to consider a
:57:11. > :57:15.badger cull, I have always been opposed to it, but the fact we have
:57:15. > :57:21.a potential for these pilot schemes the likelihood is they will proceed.
:57:21. > :57:25.The evidence will be that further culling will not occur.