:01:42. > :01:45.In the South West. The Government's promised to make supermarkets pay
:01:45. > :01:55.farmers a fair price, but the retail giants say that'll mean
:01:55. > :01:55.
:01:55. > :35:22.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2006 seconds
:35:22. > :35:27.Hello, and welcome to the Sunday Politics in the South West. Coming
:35:27. > :35:32.up. The undelivered promise to give voters the power to sack naughty
:35:32. > :35:36.MPs. I'm joined by somebody who's becoming on old hand on this
:35:36. > :35:40.programme, Labour MP Alison Seabeck, who is gamely struggling with a
:35:40. > :35:43.cold today. And by a Sunday Politics debutant - though
:35:43. > :35:53.certainly no political virgin - the Lib Dem peer, cornwall councillor
:35:53. > :35:55.
:35:55. > :36:00.and former MEP, Robin Teverson. This week the government had the
:36:00. > :36:03.bit of news to warm the cockles of shadow defence ministers, like to,
:36:03. > :36:08.it announced it is going to buy a batch of jump-jet for the new
:36:08. > :36:13.aircraft carriers. This was joyride do in government, the government
:36:13. > :36:22.did the defence review and said it was a stupid idea, and now they are
:36:22. > :36:27.packed your plan. Absolutely, and a considerable cost to the taxpayer.
:36:27. > :36:32.Philip Hammond struggled to explain why they had taken the original
:36:32. > :36:36.decision and not seek advice on it. The argument seems to me that
:36:37. > :36:42.something has changed, the facts have changed. Perhaps he would like
:36:42. > :36:45.to risk derision advice on why they went for the fixed-wing aircraft.
:36:45. > :36:48.This is acutely embarrassing U-turn, is it not just the fact he did not
:36:48. > :36:54.look closely into this other government and have been forced to
:36:54. > :36:58.go back to this plan? I don't think it's very good at all. Having said
:36:58. > :37:04.that, what worries me is that we have an Anglo-French defence treaty
:37:04. > :37:11.that is very difficult in terms of interoperability between the two
:37:11. > :37:17.and Davies, the two aircraft carriers. How could it ever cost �1
:37:17. > :37:23.billion to change catapults on an aircraft carrier? What sort of
:37:23. > :37:29.original contract did the previous cont'd -- government signed which
:37:29. > :37:34.means that he's changes cost so much money? I think there are
:37:34. > :37:36.questions about the Ministry of Defence over many years.
:37:36. > :37:39.The Queen's Speech revealed that the Government is finally
:37:39. > :37:42.introducing a regulator to police the relationship between
:37:42. > :37:46.supermarkets and farmers. It's supposed to stop big retailers
:37:46. > :37:50.using their commercial muscle to take advantage of food producers.
:37:50. > :37:54.Farmers have been demanding this for years. But the supermarkets say
:37:54. > :37:57.it will push up prices at the checkout. In a further twist, some
:37:57. > :38:00.supporters of the idea fear what the Government's produced is a
:38:00. > :38:05.toothless beast which will struggle to expose exploitation or punish
:38:05. > :38:09.the offenders. John Ayres reports. How much is a pint, or should I say
:38:09. > :38:18.0.568 litres, of milk? There's a feeling that some people in the
:38:18. > :38:22.corridors of power don't know. only are Cameron and was born two
:38:22. > :38:28.posh boys who don't know the price of bill, but there two arrogant
:38:28. > :38:32.posh boys who showed no remorse, and no passion to want to
:38:32. > :38:35.understand the lives of others. not only does David Cameron say he
:38:35. > :38:38.knows the price of milk but his Government's also trying to do
:38:38. > :38:43.something about it. Ruth Kimber is a dairy farmer from Somerset. If
:38:43. > :38:51.the price she receives for a litre of milk drops by just a penny, it
:38:51. > :38:55.can cost her thousands. The problem is that the buyers are so strong.
:38:55. > :39:00.We have to find a way of matching up the strengths. The only way we
:39:00. > :39:05.can do that with so few of them and so many of us is to have an
:39:05. > :39:09.adjudicator with a decent amount of powers to make his position or her
:39:09. > :39:12.position tenable. An adjudicator is exactly what was announced in the
:39:12. > :39:16.Queen's Speech last week. A policeman in effect, to ensure
:39:16. > :39:23.deals are fair. And this isn't just about milk. Releationships involved
:39:23. > :39:27.in producing all sorts of food will come under strutiny. Most of us,
:39:27. > :39:32.when we had food, so long as it tastes nice and cost a fair price,
:39:32. > :39:36.we don't think much about how it has got here. The farmers say that
:39:36. > :39:39.the supermarkets have too much power and if it continues that way
:39:39. > :39:44.then it could be damaging to the farming industry and other long-
:39:44. > :39:48.term effect on security of food. Richard Haddock is a Devon farmer
:39:48. > :39:51.who has set up his own farm shop because he would rather cut out the
:39:51. > :40:00.middle man. He not only wants an adjudicator, but he wants the
:40:00. > :40:05.powers to be extended further. whole thing has to be looked at. It
:40:05. > :40:09.needs at least Monday, a genuine policemen with teeth. If things go
:40:09. > :40:15.down in price, we have to move down, and if things go up in price, they
:40:15. > :40:19.must have to move up. It could be another quango, depends if the
:40:19. > :40:26.government did it teeth. Quangos. I thought the Government
:40:26. > :40:30.said it was getting rid of those. And how much is this going to cost?
:40:30. > :40:34.The cost will be pushed on to consumers so we will be paying for
:40:34. > :40:39.a quango which will not be able to do anything and will not identify
:40:39. > :40:43.the problem specifically identified in the competition report. So how
:40:43. > :40:50.effective will it be? As it stands, the only sanction available will be
:40:50. > :40:54.to name and shame businesses that don't play fair. The worry is that
:40:54. > :41:03.people will not be prepared to come Ford and whistle blowers will not
:41:03. > :41:07.have the protection that they need. Supermarkets will feel but one that
:41:07. > :41:14.bit of censure from D adjudicator, unless it hits them in the pocket,
:41:14. > :41:21.will not make them change their practices. The supermarkets believe
:41:21. > :41:26.they are fair, saying they do invest in farming. It would take
:41:26. > :41:29.away cos that we would be able to invest in stores and shops and
:41:29. > :41:32.keeping prices down for consumers. Farmers say they want an
:41:32. > :41:39.adjudicator, the supermarkets say it's not necessary. There is going
:41:39. > :41:44.to be one, the test will be if it can actually make any difference.
:41:44. > :41:50.This has been a big issue for the Lib Dems. I knew concern that now
:41:50. > :41:54.it is actually happening, you might not at the Palace to do the job?
:41:54. > :41:59.First, I am pleased that something has happened. Not everything has
:41:59. > :42:06.got into the Queen's Speech and we do have this bill, and it had its
:42:06. > :42:10.first reading on Friday. So it means that it is there and has to
:42:11. > :42:14.be taught through. I think there are some issues about it and the
:42:15. > :42:19.one that I would say is that if you have legislation and to bother to
:42:19. > :42:25.do that, you change a code of practice into something that is
:42:25. > :42:30.statutory. You need to do it properly. That organisation is to
:42:30. > :42:35.have reasonable teeth, like the Financial Services Authority does
:42:35. > :42:40.for the finance area. There is provision for finding within this
:42:40. > :42:44.piece of legislation. It is a last resort but last with the minister.
:42:44. > :42:49.That is right, it just be referred to the minister, and a dead thing
:42:49. > :42:53.that is good enough. But continues to be the adjudicated themselves.
:42:53. > :42:58.And it needs to be pretty big fines, presumably, dealing with retailers
:42:58. > :43:01.on this scale. Yes, to be noticeable, they have to be
:43:01. > :43:05.significant. I think just naming and shaming or having
:43:05. > :43:09.investigations is important but it does not quite get there yet and
:43:09. > :43:14.maybe more but the government to change its mind. Alison, did you
:43:14. > :43:21.recruit labour's official position? There is clearly a debate that has
:43:21. > :43:27.to be had. There are -- I spoke to farmers, about a year ago, about
:43:27. > :43:32.whether the code was strong enough, and they felt it was not. I
:43:32. > :43:37.actually do think having an ombudsman of some sort is the way
:43:37. > :43:44.to go. But I heartily agree with Robin that it has to have teeth.
:43:44. > :43:51.You will play with some very big players here. What about the
:43:51. > :43:56.argument that farming incomes are doing quite well at the moment, but,
:43:56. > :43:59.whatever happens, it this actually works it will put up prices for
:43:59. > :44:05.consumers and those other people that are really hurting at the
:44:05. > :44:14.moment? The balance must be found through the middle of this. Clearly,
:44:14. > :44:19.the consumer will pay a price, I suspect. It is almost inevitable.
:44:19. > :44:25.But we have seen farmers' fortunes ebb and flow and when they are at
:44:25. > :44:30.the bottom, they really struggle. Robin do you agree that the
:44:30. > :44:35.consumer is bound be hit in the pocket by this? In fact, price 16
:44:35. > :44:40.is excluded out of this completely, and I think the most important
:44:40. > :44:46.thing is that farmers need to have sensible returns so that they are
:44:46. > :44:49.there for a long term. Some people were as intrigued by the bills
:44:49. > :44:54.which didn't make it into the Queen's Speech as the ones that did.
:44:54. > :44:57.Social care reform and gay marriage both missed the boat. And there was
:44:57. > :45:00.no update on the Government's promise to give voters the power to
:45:00. > :45:02.sack misbehaving MPs between general elections. So it's still
:45:02. > :45:05.not clear when this particular coalition pledge will be honoured.
:45:05. > :45:08.And the plans the Government's already sketched out have drawn
:45:08. > :45:15.fierce criticism from people who say they're not worth the paper
:45:15. > :45:20.they're written on anyway. Tamsin Melville reports.
:45:20. > :45:24.I have done nothing criminal, that is the most awful thing. They were
:45:24. > :45:27.the symbols of the MPs' expenses scandal in the South west. Anthony
:45:27. > :45:35.Steen's flagpole - for which he tried to claim �28.50. And Julia
:45:35. > :45:40.Goldsworthy's rocking chair - which had cost taxpayers �1,000. We have
:45:40. > :45:43.too many MPs who once they are elected have a job for life.
:45:43. > :45:47.image of the designer rocking chair dogged Julia Goldsworthy, until she
:45:47. > :45:50.lost her re-drawn seat at the 2010 general election. And it was cases
:45:50. > :45:53.like hers which contributed to a new enthusiasm for the option of
:45:53. > :45:56.getting rid of MPs between elections. In the last
:45:56. > :46:03.parliamentary session a draft Bill on the Recall of MPs appeared. But
:46:03. > :46:06.there was no mention of it becoming law in this week's Queen's Speech.
:46:06. > :46:10.Under the coalition's plans, a Commons Committee decides if a
:46:10. > :46:15.recall should be triggered. Then, if 10% of constituents sign a
:46:15. > :46:25.petition, a by-election goes ahead. Critics think there's a danger of
:46:25. > :46:25.
:46:25. > :46:30.vested interests. What we want is for voters to be able to decide, at
:46:30. > :46:34.not a group of MPs, but there they attempt to remove their MP, and not
:46:34. > :46:39.just for serious wrongdoing, but for loss of confidence for any
:46:39. > :46:43.reason. It needs to be opened up democratically and if the threshold
:46:43. > :46:47.is enough, then we should be and trouble to the people and not just
:46:47. > :46:50.the parliament, but we have to get that right. Neil Parish is joined
:46:50. > :46:53.by more than 50 cross-party members who are supporting alternative
:46:53. > :46:59.proposals which give more power to voters to sack their MP - rather
:46:59. > :47:05.than a Parliamentary committee. But this approach has its critics too.
:47:05. > :47:10.If you could below anybody to trigger an recall mechanism they
:47:10. > :47:15.will be big money, for example the Murdoch press might have it in for
:47:15. > :47:19.an MP he was having a bit of a nuisance for them. We have to be
:47:19. > :47:23.careful that the trigger mechanism is with the public but is on the
:47:23. > :47:26.best possible grounds. Across the pond, the power of recall is a
:47:26. > :47:29.feature of politics in some American states, and was most
:47:29. > :47:31.famously used in California in 2003 when Governor Gray Davis lost a
:47:31. > :47:35.ballot to Arnold Schwarzenegger. The Terminator attracted global
:47:35. > :47:44.attention to a little-known power that's only ever been used twice at
:47:44. > :47:50.this level. It is supposed to be this instrument of direct democracy
:47:50. > :47:57.and people power but in the end, what really triggers these recalls
:47:57. > :48:02.his money, and large amounts of money, from private citizens or
:48:02. > :48:07.from the unions. It does not tend to be a grassroots movement. It may
:48:07. > :48:10.not be widely used in top level politics in the US, but as a symbol
:48:10. > :48:14.of direct democracy the National Union of Students here is running
:48:14. > :48:21.its own Right to Recall campaign - against Lib Dem MPs who did a U-
:48:21. > :48:27.turn on tuition fees. I think everyone should be accountable for
:48:27. > :48:31.their actions. So I think it is something the NUS have got right.
:48:31. > :48:35.If people decide they should lose their seats, then they should lose
:48:35. > :48:38.their seats. If they have gone so far against policy than the need to
:48:38. > :48:41.be put under the spotlight. But, for now, the Government's Bill
:48:41. > :48:48.remains a draft, and the supporters of the alternative proposals are
:48:49. > :48:53.still waiting for a promised Commons debate.
:48:53. > :49:01.Robin, Lib Dems like constitutional reform. Some people so they are
:49:01. > :49:06.fixated with them! You could not get people to change the voting
:49:06. > :49:10.system last year. Your big thing now is 0 reform. This thing, which
:49:10. > :49:20.strikes me the one bit of constitutional reform that might
:49:20. > :49:23.enthuse people, did not get a mention. Of course, as the peer,
:49:23. > :49:31.cannot be fired under any circumstances. That is why does
:49:31. > :49:35.need reform. In terms of right to recall, then it is part of the
:49:35. > :49:39.coalition agreement so it needs to go in there. I think the draft bill
:49:39. > :49:42.was pretty anaemic. You have to get a balance between the public being
:49:42. > :49:46.able to recall someone who has really gone against what they
:49:46. > :49:50.should be doing but at the same time not stopping them from really
:49:50. > :49:53.saying what they think of being able to stand up to some of the
:49:53. > :49:57.pressure groups and do what the majority of their constituents want
:49:57. > :50:06.them to do. It needs to be left in the hands of the people and not
:50:06. > :50:12.just Parliament. I agree. It is interesting that in a very thin
:50:12. > :50:16.Queen's Speech that this Bill was not included. I'm not quite sure
:50:16. > :50:20.what the logic was because it think it is something we should debate
:50:20. > :50:25.and I think the public want us to have the discussion and they want
:50:25. > :50:30.to be involved. But there are risks. We do have to make sure that it
:50:30. > :50:37.cannot be used vexatiously, but the money cannot be used to house
:50:37. > :50:42.somebody for whatever reason. You could see, either within individual
:50:42. > :50:49.parties, factions getting together to try to unseat an MP who perhaps
:50:49. > :50:54.is taking an individual few want something. They need to be checks
:50:55. > :50:58.and balances in there but it is important that we discuss it.
:50:58. > :51:03.do you achieve that? We heard that in America, on the few occasions
:51:03. > :51:07.when this has happened, big money tends to be involved. Yes, and in
:51:07. > :51:13.the draft Bill there are all sorts of provisions are but a new finance
:51:13. > :51:18.how this works. I remember when I was a prospective candidate back in
:51:18. > :51:23.the 1990s, around the poll tax, people said to me how did we get
:51:23. > :51:28.redress snow on our MP if they voted the wrong way, and you cannot.
:51:28. > :51:30.You need to leave it in the hands of people with a threshold that
:51:31. > :51:35.means they after it signed a petition properly in a particular
:51:35. > :51:41.place, they are proper constituent, that it has to be a bar of a
:51:41. > :51:45.certain threshold. This debate about whether quite trivial issues
:51:45. > :51:51.could sparks this. The government plans would apply to criminal
:51:51. > :51:56.offences. It somebody is convicted of criminal offence while they are
:51:56. > :51:59.in Parliament Commission may just be kicked out anyway? That is a
:51:59. > :52:04.very good point and is clearly something we should discuss.
:52:04. > :52:10.would expect lawmakers to keep the law themselves. At the moment, it
:52:10. > :52:14.is over 12 months, they should be out anyway. Absolutely, lawmakers
:52:14. > :52:24.should be law keepers. Now our regular round-up of the
:52:24. > :52:32.political week in 60 seconds. The police hit the streets - not to
:52:32. > :52:35.supervise a protest but to do the protesting. We are seeing a real
:52:35. > :52:39.effect in Dorset, and losing officers and support staff which
:52:39. > :52:44.will have a detrimental effect on the service we give. And tomorrow's
:52:44. > :52:47.pensioners had the same idea. A multi-million pound uplift of
:52:47. > :52:55.public money is needed to re-open Plymouth Airport, according to the
:52:55. > :53:02.group campaigning to save it. costs a number of millions to free
:53:02. > :53:05.the airport for the long term of the city then that is a superb deal
:53:05. > :53:14.for the city. Pollock handliners say quota cuts could shipwreck
:53:14. > :53:17.their businesses. I was at sea on the second and by the evening off
:53:17. > :53:21.the third I had a phone call to tell me I had caught my quota for
:53:21. > :53:25.the month. And the company in charge of emptying Cornwall's bins
:53:25. > :53:35.is fined of tens of thousands of pounds for being a bit rubbish
:53:35. > :53:38.
:53:38. > :53:42.itself. Should they be put your the kestrel
:53:42. > :53:47.Plymouth airport? There are certainly came back and looking at
:53:48. > :53:53.the airport and its relation to the city. But it is far too early. But
:53:53. > :53:58.then it is an issue that is being taken very seriously. Robin, you're
:53:58. > :54:02.not from Plymouth, but I know you have been a great business lobbyist
:54:02. > :54:07.and business people say transport links are the top priority. They
:54:07. > :54:13.are. I used to represent Plymouth in Europe. One might use his
:54:13. > :54:18.letters get a decent train service in Plymouth. What about the
:54:18. > :54:23.airport? I think the airport is something I would like to support
:54:23. > :54:28.and want to be there, but the council tax payer cannot subsidise
:54:28. > :54:34.him by millions. If we can make it work, that is good, but it us to
:54:34. > :54:37.work financially in the long term. Could you not be repaid in the long
:54:38. > :54:44.term by the Investment? It depends what kind of detail they come up
:54:44. > :54:47.with. Was there there are commercial interests around there.
:54:47. > :54:52.Plymouth City Council is still the freeholder so I would have thought
:54:52. > :54:57.it could find some way of fixing this. What is your message to the
:54:57. > :54:59.company canteen on not tempting pins in Cornwall? I got a lot of
:54:59. > :55:05.aggro from my accountant institutes and the need to get their act
:55:05. > :55:09.together. I think they have now run out of the bags to give people so I