:01:26. > :01:30.The Cornwall councillors who are leaving the Liberal Democrats -
:01:30. > :01:40.they say the Pasty Tax is one of many reasons why they've lost faith
:01:40. > :01:40.
:01:40. > :31:44.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1804 seconds
:31:44. > :31:49.Hello, coming up on the Sunday Politics in the South West...
:31:49. > :31:54.The MPs being targeted by a campaign for an EU referendum.
:31:54. > :32:00.For the next 20 minutes I'm joined by Jude Robinson, Labour councillor
:32:00. > :32:05.on Cornwall Council and Ros Kayes, deputy leader of the Lib Dem Group
:32:05. > :32:09.on West Dorset District Council. The leader of the Liberal Democrats
:32:09. > :32:13.in Cornwall has told Nick Clegg he must sit up and listen to the
:32:13. > :32:17.concerns of two Lib Dem councillors who left the party this week. They
:32:17. > :32:22.resigned within a day of each other and both blamed the leadership for
:32:22. > :32:28.their departures. Later we were here Nick Clegg's response. -- we
:32:28. > :32:33.will hear. First, this report... For 10 years, Graham Walker was a
:32:33. > :32:38.lead them, elected to Cornwall Council in 2009. -- Liberal
:32:38. > :32:43.Democrat. Earlier this week, he quit the party. The bottom line is,
:32:43. > :32:48.I cannot defend some of the things that the Lib Dems are allowing the
:32:48. > :32:53.Conservatives to do. He was not the only one. Chris Pascoe ended an
:32:53. > :32:59.association with the Lib Dems that started over 30 years ago. He was
:32:59. > :33:04.the first to quit the party. Government are making so many
:33:04. > :33:08.mistakes. I have given them three years and it has not got any better.
:33:08. > :33:13.Two defections is hardly the end for the Lib Dems in Cornwall but
:33:13. > :33:22.for an end -- for a place steeped in liberal tradition, it has not
:33:22. > :33:29.gone without notice. In the Celtic fringe, the area the party always
:33:29. > :33:32.falls back on, if they are losing councillors here are a bit
:33:32. > :33:40.councillors are worried about losing their vote here, that is
:33:40. > :33:48.something that will concern the leadership. Four a clue to what is
:33:48. > :33:54.going on looked no further than eight demo in Falmouth. -- look no
:33:54. > :33:59.further than a demo. The Pasty Tax has been the main thing. It is an
:33:59. > :34:05.icon in Cornwall and it is a step too far. It is just an insult to
:34:05. > :34:10.the Cornish. As a college lecturer, education issues from the scrapping
:34:10. > :34:14.of tuition fees to Free Schools have all played on councillor
:34:14. > :34:20.Walker's mind. Then there are the austerity measures, health reforms
:34:20. > :34:28.and benefit changes. All in all, coalition policies that have led
:34:28. > :34:32.him to get off his bike and quit the party. I understand that the
:34:32. > :34:37.party is between a rock and a hard place. It is at the point for me
:34:37. > :34:41.that I do not feel I have a choice. I have been canvassing and I have
:34:41. > :34:46.asked people. I have heard very clearly that they will not vote
:34:46. > :34:50.because of what the Liberal Democrats have done nationally. My
:34:50. > :34:57.only choice is to become independent. Councillor walker does
:34:57. > :35:01.not even know if he will defend his majority. The government are going
:35:01. > :35:08.to have to take note of particularly the reasons that
:35:08. > :35:11.Graham has given for his departure and act on it. If we stop listening
:35:11. > :35:16.as a national party we are in trouble. What I would say to them
:35:16. > :35:22.is, we are disappointed to lose somebody of this Canada. I hope the
:35:22. > :35:26.party will take notice. president of the lead Dems tried to
:35:26. > :35:31.talk councillor Walker out of quitting, a sign of how worried
:35:31. > :35:37.party leaders are following the local election results. In my last
:35:37. > :35:42.two years, the party has lost over 1,000 councillors. Some believe
:35:42. > :35:49.preservation is best achieved from the inside. It is better to hang on
:35:49. > :35:59.in there. Regimes come and go. Policy stances news and change and
:35:59. > :36:00.
:36:00. > :36:04.if you are not in their, then you lose your right to criticise.
:36:04. > :36:10.we are going to the polls next year, some councillors thing hanging on
:36:10. > :36:15.his to bigger risk. You are a Lib Dem councillor. Do
:36:15. > :36:21.you think a lot of people feel this way about the leadership? A lot of
:36:21. > :36:25.people do Part I have to agree with Adrian, if you want to change
:36:25. > :36:31.things, you have to fight the battles that need to be fought.
:36:31. > :36:39.There are areas where I think going into coalition, we were wide-eyed
:36:39. > :36:46.in terms of the NHS and education issues. Nick played? I think the
:36:46. > :36:50.negotiators missed a trick. Those issues of health, education and
:36:50. > :36:56.housing are issues we are trying to address. Is Nick Clegg still the
:36:56. > :37:01.right man for the job? I think there are questions about the level
:37:01. > :37:07.of popularity that Nick Clegg has. I campaigned on the doorstep last
:37:07. > :37:12.year and was re-elected with a fourfold increase in my majority.
:37:12. > :37:16.It does not sound like you are endorsing him. He is doing an
:37:16. > :37:23.excellent job of holding the coalition together. That is what
:37:23. > :37:27.the country needs. You just have to look at Italy. We have a clip of
:37:27. > :37:34.Nick Clegg from Friday in Cornwall. We put it to him that councillors
:37:34. > :37:41.were defecting and blaming him. is a great pity when people leave
:37:41. > :37:45.any political party at any time. I don't want to in any way duck the
:37:45. > :37:49.fact that of course, the party nationally is taking difficult
:37:49. > :37:55.decisions. We are involved with painstaking compromises at a time
:37:55. > :37:59.when there is no money. Some people do not like that but it is my job
:37:59. > :38:03.to explain why we are doing it and that we believe it is the right
:38:03. > :38:06.thing in the long term and that if you want to wipe the slate clean
:38:07. > :38:10.for the next generation to move forward as the country, create jobs
:38:10. > :38:14.and prosperity and optimism in Cornwall and the rest of the
:38:14. > :38:20.country, we need to get through this difficult time. Does that make
:38:20. > :38:28.you feel better? I think the Big Issue is that people trust the
:38:28. > :38:33.Liberal Democrats while they do not like Nick Clegg. What I do find is
:38:33. > :38:40.that people trust the brand. It is retaining the core values of
:38:40. > :38:45.liberal democracy. Some have defected. Let's move on. Why did
:38:45. > :38:49.these councillors not defect to Labour? That is an interesting
:38:49. > :38:54.question. I knock on doors are a lot and people on the streets are
:38:54. > :38:57.coming across to Labour in droves. I do not get the feeling in
:38:57. > :39:01.Cornwall that people trust the Lib Dem brand at all. They do not seem
:39:02. > :39:08.to trust Labour. There are two people so disillusioned that they
:39:08. > :39:14.have jumped ship, yet they did not take Labour as an alternative?
:39:14. > :39:19.is a strange relationship between Labour and the Lib Dems in Cornwall.
:39:19. > :39:25.You are the only Labour councillor? At the moment. We have areas where
:39:25. > :39:29.we are coming back. In the constituency I am in, there is one
:39:29. > :39:33.Lib Dem councillor. In West Cornwall, the Lib Dems are not
:39:33. > :39:42.strong. They are stronger than Labour, aren't they? You have not
:39:42. > :39:50.had an MP since 2005. In my constituency I am in, there is want
:39:50. > :39:56.Lib Dem councillor and one Labour. The rest are Tories are independent.
:39:56. > :40:02.-- or independent. I do not understand why Graham or Chris did
:40:02. > :40:06.not come to Labour. I wonder if the style of campaigning is too
:40:06. > :40:12.different. The Lib Dem vote in Cornwall... Are there any others
:40:12. > :40:18.you have heard of? There are people who have talked about it. They do
:40:18. > :40:24.not seem to be able to make the leap. This may not be the last. Is
:40:24. > :40:30.this about Lib Dem policy as much as people's individual chances? If
:40:30. > :40:35.it was just policy, surely people would have defected weeks ago?
:40:35. > :40:41.think you are right. When you look at defections, they happen all over
:40:41. > :40:46.the country all the time. Looking online earlier today, I could see
:40:46. > :40:53.that there had been a Tory who defected to UKIP and one who had
:40:53. > :41:00.defected to the Lib Dems. doesn't the party fall back on
:41:01. > :41:04.Cornwall? I lot of defections happen for personal reasons. -- a
:41:04. > :41:08.lot of. If I was in the Labour Party are would be worried, why had
:41:09. > :41:12.they not come to Labour? What is it about the lack of charisma of the
:41:12. > :41:18.Labour leadership and a lack of community activism in the South
:41:18. > :41:28.West that would mean they have not gone? We have had town councillors
:41:28. > :41:28.
:41:28. > :41:32.come across to Labour. We had one in Penzance.
:41:32. > :41:36.The campaign for a referendum on Europe is heading for the south-
:41:36. > :41:39.west. An all-party group called the People's Pledge this week announced
:41:39. > :41:44.six constituencies in Devon and Cornwall where they plan to hold a
:41:44. > :41:48.local poll. This should please at least three of the region's MPs who
:41:48. > :41:56.have signed up. There are worries that people will vote with an eye
:41:56. > :42:01.on the current troubles in Europe rather than its long-term prospects.
:42:01. > :42:09.It is five years since the people here were asked to consider Europe.
:42:09. > :42:19.A big majority voted in favour of a have a referendum. Voting yes, 260.
:42:19. > :42:20.
:42:20. > :42:28.But voting no, 12. But turnout was a mere 18%. The people are cynical.
:42:28. > :42:30.It is good to give people a chance anyway. This is a good result.
:42:30. > :42:33.campaign group called the People's Pledge now wants to hold similar
:42:33. > :42:40.local polls as a way of prayer for her -- pressurising the government
:42:40. > :42:45.to hold a national referendum. They held a list of constituencies where
:42:45. > :42:51.they would like to do this. Many of them are marginal Conservative
:42:51. > :42:57.seats were UKIP is strong, like Camborne and Redruth. We have got
:42:57. > :43:04.George Eustice. He is a fine man. He has a wafer-thin majority. He is
:43:04. > :43:10.a former UKIP candidate are now he believes in it renegotiation. --
:43:10. > :43:14.and now he believes in the renegotiation. The People's Pledge
:43:14. > :43:21.held their first ballot in Essex earlier in the year and they won by
:43:21. > :43:26.just 92 votes. Here, 90% said yes to a national poll. Turnout was 30%.
:43:26. > :43:31.This week, the Newton Abbot MP became the third in the south-west
:43:31. > :43:35.to sign up to the campaign. It is in my constituency. I have many
:43:35. > :43:42.small businesses who are burdened by the high level of regulation
:43:42. > :43:46.coming from Europe and that rural community. It is a real issue.
:43:46. > :43:53.People need to have an informed say and I am determined government not
:43:54. > :43:59.only allows them to have that, but the days on an informed basis.
:43:59. > :44:03.was one of seven south-west rebel MPs who voted in favour of a
:44:03. > :44:07.referendum last year. In west Devon, but local MP voted with the
:44:07. > :44:12.government against the poll and his seat is being targeted by the
:44:12. > :44:19.People's Pledge campaign. The NP shares similar pledge to this local
:44:19. > :44:25.Conservative councillor. I am not sure it is practically possible,
:44:25. > :44:30.however I would like to see as renegotiate our current position.
:44:30. > :44:37.In the last general election, Newick -- UKIP came third in this
:44:37. > :44:42.area. Here in the Conservative Club in Tavish Scott -- in Tavistock, I
:44:42. > :44:50.found support. They have so much control over us. We should not have
:44:50. > :44:54.to put up with Europe tell us. -- what Europe tell us. On the streets
:44:54. > :44:59.there were similar views. It is important for people to be able to
:44:59. > :45:05.say what they think. I think people more and more are thinking it would
:45:05. > :45:08.be good if we could lead to the European Union. Some residents in
:45:08. > :45:13.Devon and Cornwall could get the chance to express their views on
:45:13. > :45:16.the Europe at the ballot box. The People's Pledge have announced they
:45:16. > :45:20.will hold their next poll in Manchester this July, but they hope
:45:20. > :45:26.to hold polls in the south-west in the autumn.
:45:27. > :45:32.He is it time for a referendum in - - on Europe? I think there is
:45:32. > :45:36.enough turmoil without referendums. Whatever happens in Europe affects
:45:36. > :45:42.our economy and at the moment, our economy needs all of the help it
:45:42. > :45:47.can get. Jon Cruddas is supporting the referendum. He signed up this
:45:47. > :45:54.week for Labour. Be using he senses boats? There must be a reason he is
:45:54. > :45:57.signing up. -- do you think. There probably will be a referendum. It
:45:57. > :46:02.is getting to the point where this issue has to be dealt with once and
:46:02. > :46:07.for all. There has not been a referendum since the 70s. This is a
:46:07. > :46:13.democratic process. Things have changed since the 70s. Surely,
:46:13. > :46:21.people should be given a chance to have their say? Yes, I did just --
:46:21. > :46:25.I just do not feel right now it is the most important reissue -- issue.
:46:25. > :46:31.The time for considerations of this nature is a time of calm, when
:46:31. > :46:39.people can look at the arguments. I believe there needs to be a re-
:46:39. > :46:42.evaluation of the way in which the EU works. Some of the problems have
:46:42. > :46:47.been a result of the lack of governance issues and we need to
:46:47. > :46:51.consider that. At the moment it would be madness. The impact on our
:46:51. > :46:56.economy, where 40% plus of Trade is based in Europe, would be
:46:56. > :47:01.devastating. It would be devastating on the EU project as a
:47:01. > :47:04.whole. The impact of Britain withdrawing would be offer. Seeing
:47:04. > :47:11.a referendum would be madness is because you would think the public
:47:11. > :47:17.would vote to pull out of Europe? They are scaremongering at the
:47:17. > :47:22.moment. He is that -- is that not taking away from the electorate?
:47:22. > :47:26.When people vote out of fear they always make appalling decisions.
:47:26. > :47:33.People make bad decisions were made road out of fear, that is why
:47:33. > :47:40.Hitler got supported. But if the Lib Dems had their way, we would be
:47:40. > :47:44.in a single currency right now. That surely undermines your
:47:44. > :47:49.credibility? If you look at what was happening in the 1990s when we
:47:49. > :47:54.were thinking about the 5th -- single currency, there was always a
:47:54. > :47:59.split. I beg the country made the right decision. What I am concerned
:47:59. > :48:04.about is that David Cameron is marginalising himself from the
:48:04. > :48:08.mainstream and losing our ability to impact on what might happen with
:48:08. > :48:14.rescue packages. You campaigned in one of the areas to be targeted in
:48:14. > :48:17.these polls. What is the mood like? I think people are more concerned
:48:17. > :48:24.about whether they can pay their rent, whether their kids are going
:48:24. > :48:29.to get a job, whether they have a job at the end of the month. UKIP
:48:29. > :48:34.got over 20% of votes in Plymouth, surely people are telling you
:48:34. > :48:42.something? The last time anybody talk to me about Europe on the
:48:43. > :48:45.doorstep was in 2008 and he said we should get out. I said, Cornwall is
:48:46. > :48:55.getting �300 million from Europe over the next three years. He said
:48:56. > :49:00.
:49:00. > :49:05.A there's been a big rise in the number of people forced to take
:49:05. > :49:09.part-time work. Business leaders say the figure is close to 100,000.
:49:09. > :49:15.West Devon District is the worst example, about 40% are suffering
:49:15. > :49:19.part-time employment at the moment. It is a serious situation. One of
:49:19. > :49:24.the charities which the government gets -- pays to get people back to
:49:24. > :49:27.work has gone into administration. A grandfather from north Devon said
:49:27. > :49:33.grandparents should be given a legal right to see their
:49:33. > :49:37.grandchildren. There are lots of grandparents who are only too
:49:37. > :49:42.willing and want to help their grandchildren.
:49:42. > :49:46.At the Devon County Show, the environment secretary promised hill
:49:46. > :49:51.farmers �30 million. Today's announcement will have the 300
:49:51. > :49:55.commoners and Darbar in a scheme which boasts protects the
:49:55. > :50:03.environment but helps them continue farming in that rugged but much-
:50:03. > :50:06.loved part of the world. That Was the Week in 60 seconds. A
:50:06. > :50:12.big rise in the number of people forced to take part-time work. What
:50:12. > :50:16.should the government be doing? first thing we need to look at as
:50:16. > :50:21.well as those statistics mean and in which sectors they are taking
:50:21. > :50:28.part-time work. Are we looking at the 30 Aras, 20, or under 20? We
:50:28. > :50:35.also need to look at patterns in terms of women are young people, or
:50:35. > :50:43.bread winners have been there are has cut back? -- having their hours
:50:43. > :50:46.Cup. Year on year, employment has gone up considerably. That is what
:50:46. > :50:53.we are looking at. There are a number of people in part-time work
:50:53. > :50:59.taking evening work, weekend work. That is an alarming feature, where
:50:59. > :51:04.people are needing to take on extra work so they can live. This harks
:51:04. > :51:09.back to feelings by the previous leader -- Labour government. They
:51:09. > :51:16.had 10 years of boom time to build up manufacturing and a skills set
:51:16. > :51:19.and we are looking at a government being asked to create jobs. A huge
:51:19. > :51:22.amount of jobs were created under the Labour government and we put