:01:37. > :01:47.In the South West - as the school building programme is cut, one head
:01:47. > :01:48.
:01:48. > :29:56.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1688 seconds
:29:56. > :29:59.teacher says he needs a cash boost Hello and welcome to the Sunday
:29:59. > :30:02.Politics in the South West. Coming up in the next 20 minutes: The
:30:02. > :30:05.school with a leaking roof and the head teacher who says the
:30:05. > :30:09.Government needs to fix it. can't open windows in some and
:30:09. > :30:16.can't close them in others. The heating system had a new boiler put
:30:16. > :30:20.on but the a pipework bleu all the joints. The roof doesn't keep the
:30:20. > :30:22.rain out. It makes life very difficult. My guests this week are
:30:22. > :30:25.Sheryll Murray, Conservative MP for South East Cornwall and tireless
:30:25. > :30:34.campaigner for the fishing and maritime communities and Tudor
:30:35. > :30:40.Evans, the Labour leader of Plymouth City Council. The pasty
:30:40. > :30:46.tax back in Parliament this week. Stephen Gilbert had a debate. The
:30:46. > :30:52.Government says it is listening, Nick Clegg was here a week ago
:30:52. > :30:57.pushing the line they were listening. If the Government does
:30:57. > :31:04.backtrack, can the Liberal Democrat say we have used our leverage to
:31:04. > :31:09.nip a nasty Tory policy? No that amendment was supported by all
:31:09. > :31:15.three serve MPs for Cornwall and the three Liberal Democrats. We
:31:15. > :31:20.have all been lobbying equally on this point. I have to say that we
:31:20. > :31:26.have just had a skutation, the consultation has only just ended. I
:31:26. > :31:31.myself meat with the Chancellor this week in a different capacity
:31:31. > :31:37.and I can assure you they are looking at it and I hope that we
:31:37. > :31:43.will see a very clear line, so that the tax can be enforced properly,
:31:43. > :31:49.if it is introduced, because ambient temperature is so ambiguous.
:31:49. > :31:55.In a sense, not taking in pasties in the way they're usually sold. I
:31:55. > :32:00.can't remember whether you were taking a leaf out of book of Ed
:32:00. > :32:05.Miliband and taking a picture outsaid pasty shop. Will the pasty
:32:05. > :32:09.prevail. I'm not one for hanging around pasty shops to be honest.
:32:09. > :32:13.But I do... Should they have been? Well you know, the worst thing in
:32:13. > :32:18.the world obviously is to have a photo opportunity that goes wrong.
:32:18. > :32:24.I think they raised the issue quite well. Everyone's talking about it.
:32:24. > :32:29.Don't forget it slipped through in the budget almost unnoticed. If it
:32:29. > :32:34.mpbt been for Cornwall and Devon, I don't think anybody would have made
:32:34. > :32:42.anything of it. But it is a lifestyle tax, certainly for us in
:32:42. > :32:47.the west Country. Kafr Yar is still zero rated as far as I remember. --
:32:47. > :32:53.calvier. It is not just pasties, there are meat and potato pie
:32:53. > :32:56.makers, so it is a nationwide. is a big issue in the north of
:32:56. > :32:59.England. The Government's welfare to work programme - which aims to
:32:59. > :33:02.cut the welfare bill by getting more people into jobs - is having
:33:02. > :33:05.all kinds of problems. One of the scheme's biggest providers
:33:05. > :33:07.nationally has been stripped of its contract and is facing a fraud
:33:07. > :33:10.investigation. It was also, incidentally, founded by somebody
:33:10. > :33:13.who until recently was an adviser to David Cameron. Here in the South
:33:13. > :33:15.West, one of our major contractors has gone into administration and
:33:15. > :33:25.two others have mysteriously dropped out of the scheme. John
:33:25. > :33:26.
:33:26. > :33:29.Danks has been straining every sinew to find out more. It is the
:33:30. > :33:33.Government's �5 billion project to get more than three million people
:33:33. > :33:38.into work. But is it working? Almost a year into the scheme and
:33:38. > :33:42.figures suggest it may be underperforming. The aim of work
:33:42. > :33:47.programme foirs providers to find sustained work for 36% on scheme
:33:47. > :33:52.after two years. This week the body that represents Welfare to Work
:33:52. > :33:57.providers said on average 22% of those on the programme have start
:33:57. > :34:00.work. The Government says it is a good start. I tried to find out how
:34:00. > :34:04.many people in the South West had found work, but was told this
:34:04. > :34:09.information wasn't available. Three organisations who had signed up to
:34:09. > :34:13.deliver the programme in the region were no longer doing so. Grand work
:34:13. > :34:19.South West had been praised for their work by the employment
:34:19. > :34:23.Minister. The voluntary sector is doing fine in the programme in the
:34:23. > :34:29.South West. I have visited charities like Ground Work.
:34:29. > :34:34.they're in administration. The BBC understands challenges relating to
:34:34. > :34:40.its work programme contributed to this. The North Devon MP raised the
:34:40. > :34:47.problems facing another contractor, in this leaked letter to Chris
:34:47. > :34:53.Grayling. The funding model is in trouble, he wrote. The work
:34:53. > :35:00.programme was plooned when the forecast for UK growth was 2.6%.
:35:00. > :35:06.The forecast for this year is just 0.8%. The longer the economy flat
:35:06. > :35:11.lines, the more difficult it is is for organisations to do their job.
:35:11. > :35:16.And what about those other two proidviers - providers who Left the
:35:16. > :35:21.schemement would they tell me why? No, they had all signed contracts
:35:21. > :35:31.with gagging clauses. The department for work and pedgess
:35:31. > :35:34.The providers that remain say they're increasingly concerned by
:35:34. > :35:38.the state of the economy. A Government spoke person said it was
:35:38. > :35:42.inevitable that some contractors will fall by the way side. That is
:35:42. > :35:52.not good news for job seekers who are furtherest from the labour
:35:52. > :35:53.
:35:53. > :35:57.market. Sheryll Murrray we heard the minister saying that the
:35:57. > :36:04.voluntary sector is doing well in the South West in this context. I
:36:04. > :36:08.was tempt -- that was temperaturing fate wasn't it? Yes I think it was.
:36:08. > :36:14.But the reason that perhaps a lot of people are flagging up the
:36:14. > :36:20.difficulties now with the system is that we are paying by results. The
:36:20. > :36:27.last Government threw a lot of money into this scheme and they
:36:27. > :36:32.were paying the money up front, or now... A lot of people, including
:36:32. > :36:37.Nick Harvey say one of problems is you are paying by results. The
:36:37. > :36:42.small charities in the rural South West can't survive under the system
:36:42. > :36:46.where they have to wait six months to get most of their money. You're
:36:46. > :36:50.saying that is a virtue of the system. We were left with a huge
:36:50. > :36:55.amount of debt and we have a responsibility to get value for
:36:55. > :36:59.money for British taxpayers' money. You want to get people into jobs.
:36:59. > :37:03.We want to get people into real, long-term jobs what. Was happening
:37:03. > :37:08.under the other scheme was somebody could join a scheme for a month and
:37:08. > :37:13.then they would fall off the way side. And it wasn't producing real
:37:13. > :37:18.results. I have to say to you that the reason we're paying by results
:37:18. > :37:23.is to make sure that people are getting real training, they're in,
:37:23. > :37:28.it is going to lead to real employment and we owe it to the
:37:28. > :37:33.British public to provide a value for money for taxpayers. Tudor,
:37:34. > :37:37.value for money, not paying people up front that is not value for
:37:37. > :37:40.money. That is the standard operational line from the
:37:40. > :37:45.Conservatives. Anybody who has had anything to do with the voluntary
:37:45. > :37:51.sector can you tell you it is not in a position to cash flow and wait
:37:51. > :37:55.until the end of a programme before is receive -- receiving money.
:37:55. > :38:01.Partly because there has been a squeeze on voluntary sector for a
:38:01. > :38:04.long time. The last decade and a half has seen transformation of
:38:04. > :38:10.voluntary sector funding into project and results of orientated
:38:10. > :38:16.work. That has not left a lot of surplus in bank accounts of
:38:16. > :38:20.voluntary organisations to get from A to B. The tragedy is that this
:38:20. > :38:26.was flagged up at the start of the work programme. We said that this
:38:26. > :38:29.would happen. And the contrast between Labour's first two years in
:38:30. > :38:36.office... It doesn't seem to be working that is the key thing.
:38:36. > :38:40.scheme has been in place for 12 months. It's not doing very well.
:38:40. > :38:46.The figures that there's no accuracy to those fi,, because it
:38:46. > :38:52.hasn't been running for long enough. But some of these, you highlighted
:38:52. > :38:59.the investigation, the fraud investigation case, that was down
:38:59. > :39:03.to the last government scheme and at the end of the day we haven't
:39:03. > :39:07.got a cedid card any more. We have the Chief Secretary of the Treasury
:39:07. > :39:12.leave a message when he left office saying the pot is empty, there is
:39:12. > :39:15.no money left. The first two years of the Labour Government compared
:39:15. > :39:21.with the coalition Government, the idea that we were left, weren't
:39:21. > :39:28.left a deficit in 1997 is prepos Prowse. You weren't. We're tray
:39:28. > :39:32.straying into an enormous debate. We haven't got time to move into
:39:32. > :39:34.that. Ten Devon schools were told they'd get new government funding
:39:34. > :39:37.to update dilapidated buildings this week. Cornwall, Dorset and
:39:37. > :39:40.Somerset though were all sent away empty-handed. The money for the
:39:40. > :39:42.lucky schools comes later than promised and it's part of a massive
:39:42. > :39:45.reduction in the Government's budget for new buildings - which is
:39:45. > :39:52.depressing news for head teachers still desperate to see the back of
:39:52. > :39:57.their crumbling classrooms. Tamsin Melville reports. Look at and have
:39:57. > :40:05.a look at this, the state of window ps... Dealing with leaks and jamed
:40:05. > :40:09.win do is is part of -- jammed windows is part of job for the head
:40:09. > :40:16.of Cornwall's biggest community college. That wire is exposed. It
:40:16. > :40:21.is a real difficulty. Built in the fits with a flat roof and riddle
:40:21. > :40:27.with asbestos, this block is well past its sell by date with the
:40:27. > :40:31.budget slashed by 80%, it is a battle keeping the classrooms safe.
:40:31. > :40:36.This teacher says it is not uncommon for water to come through
:40:36. > :40:41.the ceiling. By the end of the day there were buckets filling with
:40:41. > :40:46.water. I wouldn't -- couldn't empty them quick enough. The problem was
:40:46. > :40:50.the drips I kept walking into and a cold. When the first floor was
:40:50. > :40:57.found to be crack five years ago, temporary classrooms were brought
:40:57. > :41:01.in. The head said the whole thing needs knocking down and rere - o'
:41:01. > :41:07.rebuilding. But he says they have been left in the lurchly the
:41:08. > :41:11.Government. I have been in schools in the third world with better
:41:11. > :41:17.classrooms. Hope of new classrooms were dashed within weeks of the
:41:17. > :41:21.coalition take power, a �55 billion by Tony Blair to rebuild or
:41:21. > :41:27.refurbish all the secondary schools were scrapped A move that triggered
:41:27. > :41:33.national protests. The coalition pro re deuced this to a �2 billion
:41:33. > :41:37.pot of private finance and this week announced where it will be
:41:38. > :41:43.spent. Ilfracombe arts college is one school to benefit. Critics say
:41:43. > :41:48.the scheme is not enough. When I was schools minister we were
:41:48. > :41:56.spending �7 billion on school capital, about half was on building
:41:56. > :42:02.schools. This is only a �2 billion scheme. That money will fast
:42:02. > :42:07.disappear, huge as it may seem on first hearing. While missing out on
:42:07. > :42:12.other funds this head teacher play have hopes the local authority
:42:12. > :42:17.could help, but central government cuts means Cornwall's spending has
:42:17. > :42:23.been slashed by more than a third with �10 million to spent across
:42:23. > :42:30.the whole count y. Not enough for a rebuild here. This school isn't
:42:30. > :42:36.enough in struggling with crumbling classrooms it is thought the back
:42:36. > :42:40.lag log is nearly �80 million. The education Secretary has been
:42:40. > :42:46.invited to see the state of some building, but he has had a reply
:42:46. > :42:53.saying Mr Go is too busy. They're teaching children in cloak rooms
:42:53. > :42:57.and special educational needs children in corridors. This is 2012.
:42:57. > :43:04.We can afford the Olympics, but we can't afford something for our
:43:04. > :43:08.children and their future. If this continues of course, our backlog of
:43:08. > :43:14.�80 million in maintenance will shoot through the roof. Cornwall,
:43:14. > :43:19.Somerset and Dorset all missed out this week, but Mr Gove says by next
:43:19. > :43:26.autumn a survey by of all schools means that those in need of
:43:26. > :43:31.renovation will be addressed. But this is subject to funds, so leak
:43:31. > :43:37.roofs are likely to be a part of lessons for a while. It is all very
:43:37. > :43:42.well for Jim Knight to talk about what you were spending in office,
:43:42. > :43:47.but the shadow Secretary said you would be cutting and he has
:43:47. > :43:53.conceded thated bying schools for the future was great for the lucky
:43:53. > :43:59.schools, but it was inefficient. is ironic, we're being accused
:43:59. > :44:05.today of fixing the roofs while the sun was shining. Lurbl I... But it
:44:05. > :44:10.wasn't the most efficient way. have got a system now, let me put
:44:10. > :44:16.this point to you, Plymouth didn't apply. Tory Plymouth, which I have
:44:16. > :44:22.taken over from, did not apply for this funding. Because it is only
:44:22. > :44:25.for those schools where the cost is 70% of a rebuild cost. In other
:44:25. > :44:30.words it is not about the state of the skoorblgs it is not even about
:44:30. > :44:34.the deprivation around it. It is all about this formula that they
:44:34. > :44:38.have created. That meant that Plymouth didn't bother. And it is
:44:38. > :44:41.outrageous when you see schools in that state and there are schools
:44:41. > :44:46.like that in Plymouth that don't qualify for this funding. I have
:44:46. > :44:51.got a picture on my wall of Ed Balls given a cheque for �78
:44:51. > :44:57.million for building schools. That would have been been able to
:44:57. > :45:03.transform a school and it was taken from us by go and instead we have
:45:03. > :45:09.got -- Gove and instead we have got King James Bibles. We used to cut,
:45:09. > :45:14.but this is one of biggest cuts I have come across, a 55% cut in the
:45:14. > :45:18.school building budget. Well the thing is again if the money's not
:45:18. > :45:23.there you can't spend it. Nobody wants to see children go to
:45:23. > :45:27.school... You're taking one of biggest cuts. Nobody wants to see
:45:27. > :45:31.children going to school in poor school buildings, but we saw a lot
:45:31. > :45:35.of waste under the last Government's PFI programme. It was
:45:35. > :45:42.way under budget and eight years behind schedule and something had
:45:42. > :45:47.to be done. What we have done is... Cutting the budget?Y school on the
:45:47. > :45:52.list was surveyed by a qualified surveyor. That is how it was done.
:45:52. > :45:57.It was done in a practical way and the Secretary of State himself has
:45:57. > :46:02.said that as there is more money... As it is available. It is not much
:46:02. > :46:06.of a guarantee. Efficient councils like Plymouth, I commissioned she
:46:06. > :46:12.vn new schools when I was in charge. We have had a structured
:46:12. > :46:17.maintenance problem are being punished by this new funding regime
:46:17. > :46:22.of Gove's. They're punishing those who have been fixing the roofs.
:46:22. > :46:26.Which schools, which new schools in Plymouth did you build? All the
:46:26. > :46:31.ones that were opened to a fanfare two year ago were commissioned on
:46:31. > :46:37.my watch. They may have been, but unfortunately the last Government's
:46:37. > :46:40.PFI building schools for the future scheme was hugely overbudget and
:46:40. > :46:50.eight years behind schedule. Stkpwhra we're overtime. But we
:46:50. > :46:54.
:46:54. > :46:59.have got time for a rund up of political week in 60 seconds. Peers
:46:59. > :47:05.called for the new superwatchdog to have more teeth. The adjudicator,
:47:05. > :47:10.the large retailers... Lord tevson listed the number of people who
:47:10. > :47:19.need to be consulted before a fine can be impose. One or more person...
:47:19. > :47:22.In the commons Gary Streeterer was back on message after his local
:47:22. > :47:27.election revolt. Does this not demonstrate that our commitment to
:47:27. > :47:30.increasing health funding and our health reforms are beginning to
:47:31. > :47:35.bear fruit. One or more personing appearing to represent the
:47:35. > :47:43.interests of consumers. Richard Drabgs told the Government to
:47:43. > :47:48.rethink its coastguard cuts. And Dan Rogerson said the Olympic
:47:48. > :47:53.committee should apoll jies for snatching the flag from this --
:47:54. > :48:02.apologise for snatching the flag from this torch bearer. We're up to
:48:02. > :48:05.nine billion at that point. Sheryll Murrray, I'm intrigued, as to the
:48:05. > :48:11.circumstances in which you may find yourself at Prime Minister's
:48:11. > :48:16.questions and come up with a variant of the question I wonder if
:48:17. > :48:21.my friend would agree he is doing a wonderful job running the I country.
:48:21. > :48:26.I have that is something that... The kind of question you would ask.
:48:26. > :48:31.That needed to be high light. If I wanted to get a point across, yes.
:48:31. > :48:37.It wasn't a constituency irissue. The message we want to get across
:48:37. > :48:41.is that we have a very united Conservative Party, whose
:48:41. > :48:45.priority... Do you think he wrote it himself? I think he did. I know
:48:45. > :48:52.Gary and I'm sure he would, because he cares about health. But it shows
:48:52. > :48:57.the message we want the get across is we're a united. Quickly, if we
:48:57. > :49:01.saw Tudor Evans on the Labour benches would you ask a question
:49:01. > :49:11.like that? Clearly I do it all in the time in the council chamber.
:49:11. > :49:11.
:49:11. > :49:16.But I must say that was one of some question. It was a triumph and if
:49:16. > :49:22.he doesn't get a job in the reshuffle I would be surprised.
:49:22. > :49:26.he making amends. I don't think there was amends to be made and
:49:26. > :49:31.Gary does care about the NHS. If 0 look back, he has concentrated on
:49:31. > :49:36.the NHS all the time. So yes, if somebody that we're doing as a