:01:32. > :01:35.In the South West, demands to tackle the rogue element in the
:01:35. > :01:45.parking industry and should we be getting people off the dole and
:01:45. > :01:45.
:01:45. > :35:05.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2000 seconds
:35:06. > :35:10.Hello and welcome to the Sunday Politics in the South West. Coming
:35:10. > :35:16.Should we replace a foreign farmworkers with people from the UK
:35:16. > :35:21.dole queues? Well, I am joined this week by a
:35:21. > :35:27.pair of peers, the Liberal Democrat Robin Teverson and Labour's Larry
:35:27. > :35:32.Whitty. Tax avoidance, a big story this week. The Prime Minister says
:35:32. > :35:38.it is immoral, what do you think? Are absolutely. The basic they need
:35:38. > :35:43.is people... That does not mean that we should all go out and do
:35:43. > :35:47.everything that is why the -- right up to the line of legality. One MP
:35:47. > :35:50.said leave that to priests and moral philosophers. We are in
:35:50. > :35:55.politics because we believe in things, not just because we make
:35:55. > :36:01.laws, but we believe them. If you think something is wrong, should
:36:01. > :36:05.she not change the law? That would be dangerous. Absolutely what we
:36:05. > :36:08.should not do, we have a moral code and we have a legal code and
:36:08. > :36:15.sometimes they coincide and sometimes they are different. In
:36:15. > :36:22.the taxation area, we should pay what we do, particularly if we have
:36:22. > :36:27.good incomes. These two codes do not seem to coincide as far as Ed
:36:27. > :36:33.Miliband is concerned. He has held back a bit. The issue on which
:36:33. > :36:39.there may be some criticism. He should not have picked on one
:36:39. > :36:46.person. The Chancellor previously said it was immoral. The general
:36:46. > :36:50.issue, almost all politicians would agree is immoral. If highly paid
:36:50. > :36:54.people abused loopholes in the lot to maximum effect to maximise their
:36:54. > :36:58.post-tax income, then I think most of us would agree that is immoral,
:36:58. > :37:03.even if it is not technically illegal. I think the other issue
:37:03. > :37:07.that we should not focus on individuals, is a moot point. It
:37:07. > :37:10.was not the Prime Minister who raised it, but he probably should
:37:10. > :37:19.not have criticised one person, because he immediately asked about
:37:19. > :37:24.someone else. Do you think it was possibly something that he might
:37:24. > :37:30.have regretted? Possibly. I think he thought it was a good wheeze at
:37:30. > :37:34.the time, but it was not entirely of the cuff. In it raised the issue
:37:34. > :37:38.and I think that is really important, especially in these
:37:38. > :37:42.austerity times. It may not have been clever, it may have been
:37:42. > :37:45.slightly clunky, but good to get it on the agenda. We need to raise
:37:45. > :37:49.another issue now. It MPs this week call for tighter
:37:49. > :37:50.controls in the park home industry. The Communities and Local
:37:50. > :37:54.Government Select Committee found evidence of widespread malpractice,
:37:54. > :37:59.while its chairman describes the is the existing legislation as beyond
:38:00. > :38:04.inadequate. Jenny Kumah's has been to Exeter where residents are
:38:04. > :38:08.unhappy with the way the site is maintained. Duly sold up her flat
:38:08. > :38:12.to downsize to this park home and enjoy her retirement. It seems the
:38:12. > :38:16.ideal move, but she says it has been frustrating as she feels the
:38:16. > :38:20.side's owners are not doing enough to maintain it. There is no
:38:20. > :38:25.suggestion that this operator is engaged in Groeger practices.
:38:25. > :38:29.it is looking scruffy. There are potholes in the road and as anyone
:38:29. > :38:33.can see, the gardens look messy, fences are falling down, trees have
:38:33. > :38:38.become dangerous because they have not been looked after. Residents
:38:38. > :38:43.are having to get resurgence into deal with those problems. Generally,
:38:44. > :38:48.if you walk around the site, apart from people's actual properties,
:38:48. > :38:53.the general parts, the roadways, are a mess. There are a number of
:38:53. > :38:57.bottles, but the site managers did not want us to fill him and did not
:38:57. > :39:01.want to do an interview. When I was last at the site, the site manager
:39:01. > :39:05.sent me a statement. It says that they do take a maintenance very
:39:05. > :39:11.seriously, they have on site and floating maintenance teams and all
:39:11. > :39:15.issues reported were dealt with as soon as possible. There are around
:39:15. > :39:20.2000 park home sides in England, mainly in rural and seaside
:39:20. > :39:24.locations. Many residents are retired or elderly. This week, a
:39:24. > :39:28.select committee report found that most sites are well run, but a
:39:28. > :39:32.minority of rogue operators had infiltrated the industry. There
:39:32. > :39:36.were some quite alarming stories about harassment, intimidation,
:39:36. > :39:40.threats, there had been one or two prosecutions of people involved in
:39:40. > :39:44.the sorts of activities. One of the serious issues is when someone
:39:44. > :39:48.comes to sell one of their homes, they have to get permission from
:39:48. > :39:52.the site owner for that sale to go ahead and all sorts of ways we used
:39:52. > :39:58.to try and deter prospective purchasers. The person selling in
:39:58. > :40:01.the end had to sell to the owner of the site, often at a lower price.
:40:01. > :40:05.The report's recommendations include removing existing rights to
:40:05. > :40:07.approve buyers to stop sale blocking and no upper limit on
:40:07. > :40:13.fines for those bound to be breaching their licences. At the
:40:13. > :40:18.moment the maximum that could end up paying his �2,500. The industry
:40:18. > :40:21.feels that the report has missed an important point. The legislation is
:40:21. > :40:24.not the answer, enforcement is the answer. A lot of the activities we
:40:24. > :40:27.are talking about a criminal and the police should be targeting
:40:27. > :40:32.their resources on criminal activity in this sector. That is
:40:32. > :40:36.what Parliament should be focusing. Back at her home, it duly feels the
:40:36. > :40:39.report is a step in the right direction. I at least there is a
:40:39. > :40:43.report there, people will have to act on it and it will not be swept
:40:43. > :40:48.under the carpet. More people are thinking that something needs to be
:40:48. > :40:51.done here. All we can do is hope. Private Member's Bill to bring
:40:51. > :40:57.about tighter regulation of the industry will come before
:40:57. > :41:04.Parliament in October. Larry, is the lady from the
:41:04. > :41:07.industry got a point there. Are these criminal matters and they
:41:07. > :41:11.should be perceived within the existing law? Some of them are. If
:41:11. > :41:15.you go through the report, some of them are intimidation and that is
:41:15. > :41:21.covered by criminal law. You need better regulation and better
:41:21. > :41:25.enforcement. In this area, it is clear that there is a loophole in
:41:25. > :41:29.regard to owners of park homes and there are a lot of vulnerable
:41:29. > :41:33.people in them. I think we do need to tighten up and therefore, I
:41:33. > :41:37.think all parties are likely to support a Private Member's Bill on
:41:37. > :41:41.this. They might support are now. Clive Betts, the chairman of the
:41:41. > :41:45.committee, said the existing legislation was stuck in the 1960s.
:41:45. > :41:51.Why did you not do something about it when you were in government?
:41:51. > :41:55.There were a few problems in part cones which we did deal with, like
:41:55. > :41:59.charging for its electricity and so forth. Actually, this report has
:41:59. > :42:04.revealed a rather more and we need a more positive approach.
:42:04. > :42:07.Personally, I would say we did failed to regulate and one of the
:42:07. > :42:11.reasons this is a big problem is that old people are moving out of
:42:11. > :42:14.their homes, so that their children and grandchildren can move into
:42:14. > :42:20.them and they are moving to part cones. The reason they're having to
:42:20. > :42:23.move is a shortage of housing were generally. It is a not pleasant
:42:23. > :42:28.situation in the private rental sector. It is the end of the chain
:42:28. > :42:34.of problems in the housing sector, but it is one we can tackle and we
:42:34. > :42:39.can tackle fairly straightforwardly. Should we be tackling this in that
:42:39. > :42:42.way? Are you ask about the criminality sides and I think the
:42:42. > :42:45.whole point is what has happened recently is there has been an
:42:45. > :42:51.infiltration by the criminal sectors, because there is a quick
:42:51. > :43:01.buck to be made out of intimidating vulnerable people and that is why
:43:01. > :43:01.
:43:01. > :43:05.they make a lot of money, sometimes by forcing sales. We absolutely
:43:05. > :43:12.need to do something about this and I welcome the fact that we're into
:43:12. > :43:20.consultation and I hope that it's this Private Member's Bill is fully
:43:20. > :43:23.backed by the government. We have got to get some of this through, if
:43:23. > :43:30.the Labour Party come through the lobbyist that is good enough.
:43:30. > :43:35.about sale blocking? It is complicated, because the owner of
:43:35. > :43:42.the site along as the road and the pitch itself, were as the resident
:43:42. > :43:46.owns the house. You have got two owners. The air is an argument
:43:46. > :43:54.there. In rural areas, there quite a few and adopted roads and you
:43:54. > :43:58.have similar cinched -- situations. We need to get a balance there,
:43:58. > :44:01.because they're a lot of site owners out there that there are
:44:02. > :44:06.excellent landlords and there are a lot of park home sides that are
:44:06. > :44:11.some of the best areas that you can find. There are beautiful places to
:44:11. > :44:17.live up, so we must not put everything in that one way. We have
:44:17. > :44:22.got to revolutionise baps, so that people -- so that owners do not
:44:22. > :44:25.have a ransom on what their tenants can do.
:44:25. > :44:29.Picking fruit and vegetables is apparently a job which next to no
:44:29. > :44:31.one would actually choose to do. Farmers rely on workers from
:44:31. > :44:36.Romania and Bulgaria who do not have the choice of something better.
:44:36. > :44:39.Next year, though, they will get full EU working rights, at which
:44:39. > :44:46.point they are expected to skedaddle leading the fruit farmers
:44:46. > :44:49.in a predicament. Here at this farm in Cornwall they grow vegetable
:44:49. > :44:54.plants. In the past, they have struggled to find enough local
:44:54. > :44:58.Labour at busy times. That is why they have relied on foreign workers.
:44:58. > :45:03.The majority of migrant workers come into this country on the
:45:03. > :45:08.seasonal agricultural workers game, which allows farmers to temporarily
:45:08. > :45:13.recruit overseas workers. He in 2007, the scheme changed to apply
:45:13. > :45:18.only to migrant workers, coming from Romania and Bulgaria. They are
:45:18. > :45:24.restricted a migration levels until 2013, when they will get full EU
:45:24. > :45:29.working rights. The scheme will be phased out at the end of next year.
:45:29. > :45:35.The James Hosking here on this farm is concerned. Something needs to be
:45:35. > :45:39.done, because it is so crucial, the scheme needs to be continued. The
:45:39. > :45:44.reason the scheme is so successful is because it is so well organised,
:45:44. > :45:48.both for the work are coming in and ourselves. If that scheme was
:45:48. > :45:52.available for English students are people out of work, where the had
:45:52. > :45:56.placements and accommodation sorted out and when the finished they knew
:45:56. > :45:59.they could go on somewhere else. That would make things easier for
:45:59. > :46:03.them. The Government is being encouraged to get more British
:46:03. > :46:08.people into agriculture. This Week in Westminster, there were calls to
:46:08. > :46:12.get people on benefits at working it on the farm. The are schemes and
:46:12. > :46:17.other countries, like Spain, which allows those in benefits to retain
:46:17. > :46:22.their entitlement while undertaking seasonal work on a daily call basis.
:46:22. > :46:27.The so-called contract allows workers to have an indefinite
:46:27. > :46:31.contract with a farmer or, but his colt work only when there is
:46:31. > :46:34.suitable work. On those days when there is no suitable employment,
:46:34. > :46:39.the worker is allowed to claim unemployment benefit. If in my
:46:39. > :46:44.lifetime, we have always started of employing local casual workers.
:46:44. > :46:48.biggest issue has always been in benefits and it it is not just the
:46:48. > :46:52.weekly thing, it is all the fringe things like housing allowance, that
:46:52. > :46:56.they had been so frightened to lose if the sign of an come and work for
:46:56. > :47:01.one month. It will actually cost them, because of the do sign of it
:47:01. > :47:04.takes so long to get back on to it. The government says by 2014, there
:47:04. > :47:10.will be major changes to the benefit system so this could make
:47:10. > :47:13.it easier for people on benefits to take on seasonal work. So, will the
:47:13. > :47:17.scheme to be replaced? Death is says it is working closely with the
:47:17. > :47:21.Home Office and the Department for work and pensions, but no decision
:47:21. > :47:26.has been taking yet on whether a successor scheme will be put in
:47:26. > :47:32.place. One good thing though, this week's debate may have found a
:47:32. > :47:35.solution to the problem. So many members of parliament had declared
:47:35. > :47:41.their youthful experience of working in the feels up and down
:47:41. > :47:44.the land, myself included. I think so many had declared their great
:47:44. > :47:53.experience and that during the summer recess we might be able to
:47:53. > :47:57.fill this shortage and ourselves! These two are on the edge of their
:47:57. > :48:02.seats about this! Setting aside of a rather unorthodox hands on
:48:02. > :48:06.political solution, how do we get people to do this job that
:48:06. > :48:09.apparently no one wants to do? most important thing is that
:48:09. > :48:13.farmers must be able to do it, they must be able to look after their
:48:13. > :48:17.crops and we would all like our own residents and citizens to be at the
:48:17. > :48:23.front of the queue. Maybe one of the things that will change with
:48:23. > :48:27.the Universal Credit, where you do not have order benefits taken of
:48:27. > :48:32.you if you start to increase the amount of work you do. Maybe that
:48:32. > :48:38.will help. From a practical point of view, I am sceptical and I think
:48:38. > :48:42.it is important that DEFRA it does get its act together and starts to
:48:42. > :48:48.tell our agricultural industry what will happen after December next
:48:48. > :48:51.year, because we have to gather those crops. Should that involve
:48:51. > :48:57.opening up the scheme to immigrants from outside the you? Be if we
:48:57. > :49:03.cannot get enough people from inside, then I would advocate that.
:49:03. > :49:11.Whether it is Ukraine or Croatia, they will be under similar
:49:11. > :49:15.restrictions to Romania and Bulgaria now. Yes macro. A Ed
:49:15. > :49:23.Miliband has announced that Labour would clamp down on immigration.
:49:23. > :49:27.How would this kind of proposal -- proposals it but that? This is a
:49:27. > :49:32.fairly well run scheme for a limited period. Most of the people
:49:32. > :49:37.on it come and go and are well organised. The farming Minister
:49:37. > :49:42.said if we extend this, how do we make sure those people go back?
:49:42. > :49:45.under this scheme, the vast majority do go back, because it is
:49:45. > :49:50.well-documented. There are other schemes, whether his exploitation
:49:50. > :49:53.of workers and some very nasty practices. They do affect the
:49:53. > :50:00.agriculture industry. Under this scheme, it is usually pretty well
:50:00. > :50:05.run. The issue therefore is is this a particular area that will
:50:05. > :50:11.continue to fail to attract a British Labour, were we need to
:50:11. > :50:15.have some posted 2014 it scheme? They are right, if the Romanian is
:50:15. > :50:19.over here and this is the only work he can try to undertake and
:50:19. > :50:29.suddenly he is free to take any job, which you will in it two years'
:50:29. > :50:30.
:50:30. > :50:36.time, then made are going to take a job elsewhere. It is an issue. The
:50:36. > :50:41.scheme it did previously have some non- EU people in it, because prior
:50:41. > :50:46.to them joining the EU, a lot of polls and Lithuanians were here.
:50:46. > :50:52.The key issue is that farmers need, in a very restricted period of time,
:50:52. > :50:58.quality and quantity of labour in order to get the harvest in.
:50:58. > :51:04.Prisoners? I think we should have prisoners working when we can.
:51:04. > :51:08.There are serious issues about who is outside the prison walls and how
:51:08. > :51:11.ought that is looked after. I have absolutely no problem with that at
:51:11. > :51:16.all, in principle, but there are a lot of practical things that will
:51:16. > :51:20.have to be sorted out. This is in terms of safety and making sure
:51:20. > :51:30.incarceration continued afterwards. Time now for our regular round-up
:51:30. > :51:31.
:51:31. > :51:35.of the political week in 60 seconds. Reports that the Education
:51:35. > :51:41.Secretary wants to bring back O- levels let the MP for North
:51:41. > :51:45.Cornwall fuming. There will be some sort of division between two groups
:51:45. > :51:48.of people about what they can do and what they can study and what we
:51:48. > :51:51.can hope to achieve. Union leaders in he debt collective sigh of
:51:51. > :51:55.relief, what else, at the suggestion the Government might
:51:55. > :51:58.abandon plans for regional pay. are pleased that the Government
:51:59. > :52:06.seems to be retracting on this and we can now get back to sensible
:52:06. > :52:14.discussions. An ecclesiastical alternative to the full rest which
:52:14. > :52:20.this woman finds hideous. I believe there is a man doing a bit of
:52:20. > :52:24.business with the Church! Taunton MP denies talking down
:52:24. > :52:28.England's chances in Euro 2012. I said that England had never
:52:28. > :52:31.reached a final of the tournament that been held outside England.
:52:31. > :52:39.This was reported as the predicting that England would not reach the
:52:39. > :52:43.final. Apparently Nick Clegg is not
:52:43. > :52:49.ecstatic about the idea of bringing back O levels, will this be the
:52:49. > :52:53.next big coalition bus-stop? have discussions, usually in the
:52:53. > :52:57.back corridors, but this has come out other publicly! Nick is
:52:57. > :53:05.absolutely right, we do not want a first and second class students at
:53:05. > :53:11.the age of 11. All levels, I dread of them and I got through them, but
:53:11. > :53:17.I think having that divide was bad news. The is could be a red line?
:53:17. > :53:24.think there will be an amicable solution it somehow. As always!
:53:24. > :53:30.am sure there will be some. Larry, even Kenneth Baker, the father of
:53:30. > :53:35.the GCSE, has admitted that it has been dumbed down. What do you
:53:35. > :53:40.think? I think there are issues of quality and I think the key issue
:53:40. > :53:45.about these proposals is that they are deeply divisive and I am afraid
:53:45. > :53:50.it is of a pattern, Michael Gove's educational reforms, he is
:53:50. > :53:55.attending to divide schools, divide academic achievement. It is a
:53:55. > :53:59.deeply divisive strategy and I think his starkly, we will look
:53:59. > :54:02.back and see Michael Gove as the -- as a disaster as Education
:54:02. > :54:06.Secretary. Regional pay, some people think it is dead in the
:54:06. > :54:10.water anyway, you already won the argument by the time you had the
:54:10. > :54:14.debate this week. We probably have because of the practicalities of it
:54:14. > :54:20.and I think that one thing has to be recognised, with the
:54:20. > :54:22.disappearance of large elements of regional policy, actually having a
:54:23. > :54:28.national pay scheme brings resources into those regions that
:54:28. > :54:32.have lower incomes and low economic performance. I think, to have
:54:32. > :54:37.regionalised benefits and regionalised pay, that is not a
:54:37. > :54:41.sensible policy. Will you be the only Liberal Democrat welcoming
:54:41. > :54:45.this? Isle do not welcome it. It is a bigger issue will be had a
:54:45. > :54:48.country that does have such big disparities in his regions. I would