:00:49. > :00:59.This morning the Prime Minister has appealed to backbenchers and
:00:59. > :01:20.
:01:20. > :01:25.In the south-west, the latest round in the battle between concrete and
:01:25. > :01:35.countryside. And the cider makers who say minimum pricing could put
:01:35. > :01:35.
:01:35. > :31:45.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1809 seconds
:31:45. > :31:49.Welcome to the Sunday Politics in the south-west. Coming up.
:31:49. > :31:54.Createding over 25... We will be reliving the moment a Devon
:31:54. > :31:59.backbencher became the darling of the Parliamentary sketch writers.
:31:59. > :32:03.With me this week are the Labour MP Alison Seabeck and the Liberal
:32:03. > :32:07.Democrat peer John Burnett. Welcome back to both of you. John, you are
:32:07. > :32:11.one Liberal Democrat who doesn't share your party's enthusiasm for
:32:11. > :32:15.the Lord's reform bill. Do you any after this week it is off the
:32:15. > :32:21.agenda in practise? I think that is very likely. I was delighted to see
:32:21. > :32:25.the result in the Commons, and I said well done members of the House
:32:25. > :32:30.of Commons. Independent MPs is something that the public don't
:32:30. > :32:34.realise but it is growing a great deal. Some it is calls
:32:34. > :32:40.rebelliousness n the last Labour administration we had a few
:32:40. > :32:45.rebellions, and, in this, 2000 10 intake, there are some very
:32:45. > :32:49.thoughtful, very independent MEPs of Parliament. You have always been
:32:49. > :32:55.independently minded, what do you think the message the electorate,
:32:55. > :32:59.the people you want to vote for you are getting from your leadership's
:32:59. > :33:02.perceived obsession with this issue? It is going to be confused.
:33:02. > :33:06.We have to put an end to that sharpish. We have two-and-a-half
:33:06. > :33:12.years before the next general election, but the whole business of
:33:12. > :33:16.the Lords reform, we, most of us support Lords reform but not these
:33:16. > :33:22.proposals, it very much like the euro argument, I have opposed the
:33:22. > :33:27.euro, and people were saying, oh, go into the euro, forget the
:33:27. > :33:32.consequences. It's the same. It's the same mind set. Go into House of
:33:32. > :33:39.Lords reform, forget the consequences. Alsong, you basically
:33:39. > :33:43.support Lords reform, aren't you playing a potentially dangerous
:33:43. > :33:47.game supporting the Tory rebels? What is important here, and John
:33:47. > :33:50.has made the point very very clearly, and well, is that this is
:33:50. > :33:54.a complex issue, it has to be properly thought through, it has to
:33:54. > :33:59.be properly debated, and our big beef about the the way it was being
:33:59. > :34:03.put forward was it was going to be pushed through, at enormous haste,
:34:03. > :34:07.through the House of Commons, without a chance to really get
:34:07. > :34:13.under some of the key worries that we have in the Commons about where
:34:13. > :34:18.primacy will sit, you know, which House will be the twhaun is final,
:34:18. > :34:24.takes the final decision and so on, those issues have to be properly
:34:24. > :34:28.resolved. Otherwise we will end up with an entirery unproductive body,
:34:28. > :34:32.that is constantly ping-ponging backwards and forward. I have to
:34:32. > :34:38.ask you, do you share your Liberal Democrat colleague Lord Oakeshott's
:34:38. > :34:42.sthrue the present House has a lot of "Has beens and deadbeats" in it.
:34:42. > :34:46.Speaking for myself, probably yes. I really don't they is a helpful
:34:46. > :34:50.view at all. There are wonderful people in the House of Lords,
:34:51. > :34:54.distinguished, knowledgeable, learned. I mean, it is a pathetic
:34:54. > :34:57.comment to make. That is the strength of the place. That is bun
:34:57. > :35:03.of the things that needs to be taken forward. We need to ensure
:35:03. > :35:05.you have that degree of experience, and ex feerz. We need to take the
:35:05. > :35:08.programme forward. Now the Government says making more
:35:08. > :35:12.decision locally is crucial to solving the affordable housing
:35:12. > :35:16.skrie, but what happens when the locals are in bitter disagreement
:35:16. > :35:21.as o whether new houses are needed or unsnes in west Cornwall a
:35:21. > :35:30.planning row is heading for the high Court. It may be watched
:35:31. > :35:34.carefully else are. -- elsewhere. This Cornish field may look
:35:34. > :35:37.ordinary enough, but it is at the centre of a legal row that could
:35:37. > :35:43.have implications for planning policy across the County, and
:35:43. > :35:48.beyond. Thvingsfrpblgts is about a local community, -- this is about a
:35:48. > :35:53.local community having what it want, localism rests in the community,
:35:53. > :35:59.not in Truro County Hall. Last year, Cornwall Council gave the go-ahead
:35:59. > :36:04.for 25 affordable homes to be built just outside the village near
:36:04. > :36:08.Redruth, but the parish council is arguing show only half that number
:36:08. > :36:13.is needed and it has won the right to a judicial review in the high
:36:13. > :36:18.Court. All the evidence we have is no way are they going to fill 25
:36:18. > :36:21.homes with people, from the village. The first basis for the legal
:36:21. > :36:24.challenge is that Cornwall Council's policy at the time
:36:24. > :36:29.indicated only round 12 homes should be bit on a slight this. The
:36:29. > :36:33.second is that councillors based decision on data that exaggerated
:36:33. > :36:37.local housing need. This is the application form for home choice,
:36:37. > :36:41.the system the council uses to allocate social housing akos the
:36:42. > :36:46.County. It's the use of that register as an argument for
:36:46. > :36:50.development that is under scrutiny. The council says there is currently
:36:50. > :36:53.25,000 people across Cornwall on the housing register. And it says
:36:53. > :36:58.the number with a kebgsthoun the village easily justifies the 25 new
:36:58. > :37:03.house, one of those who agrees is 30-year-old Nigel greenle. She
:37:03. > :37:09.still living with his mum in the village, despite working full-time,
:37:09. > :37:14.can't afford place of his own with his pregnant girlfriend. There is a
:37:14. > :37:18.lot of people on the housing bloist have been here all their lives and
:37:18. > :37:22.getting placed up Penzance or round further out I would be nice to be
:37:22. > :37:28.back in the village. Lawyers for the parish council say not everyone
:37:28. > :37:32.on the register is such a clear-cut case. Headline data is used, and
:37:32. > :37:36.there is insufficient drilling down on it to establish what real local
:37:36. > :37:41.need is based on that data. If we win, then Cornwall Council will
:37:41. > :37:47.have to review its use of the data across the County. The parish
:37:47. > :37:52.council says the community supports legal action, but one resident who
:37:52. > :37:58.happens to be the councillor in charge of planning doesn't.
:37:58. > :38:02.spend �6,000 money when there is weeds, play equipment that needs
:38:02. > :38:05.repair, the pressure council ought to prioritise where they spend
:38:05. > :38:11.their Monday. I don't believe as elected member for that area and
:38:11. > :38:14.resident of the village, that the parish council is acting
:38:14. > :38:19.responsibly. This new development is the kind of thing plans in the
:38:19. > :38:23.village. The councillor says the housing register is an accurate
:38:23. > :38:29.measure of need and homes like the are needed there. If the scheme is
:38:29. > :38:34.lost in the high Court, 25 families, not people, 25 families with a
:38:34. > :38:38.local connection will not have a house to live in in the village.
:38:38. > :38:44.Cornwall Council is standing by its interpretation of the pre-policy,
:38:44. > :38:49.and is consulting on a new strategy, with a target of 48,000 new homes
:38:49. > :38:54.over the next 28 years. The review will be held in October and is
:38:54. > :38:58.being watched closely. John, doesn't this just prove that the
:38:58. > :39:04.more local you make the decision making, the fewer homes you get
:39:04. > :39:08.built? I am afraid that is true. That is absolutely true. The facts
:39:08. > :39:12.of the matter are there are is a big picture, in housing, and then
:39:12. > :39:19.there is the local picture the big picture is, we have household
:39:19. > :39:24.growths of 230,000 per year, last year planning permissions granted
:39:24. > :39:28.were 90,000, houses built 100,000 - - 100,000, we are in a housing
:39:28. > :39:32.crisis, the south-eastern we face up to that the the better. We
:39:32. > :39:36.produced new planning policy, because of the NIMBY objections,
:39:37. > :39:41.a NIMBY case in your view? I am not saying that, because I don't know
:39:41. > :39:45.enough ant that, but I understand the councillor defending his area,
:39:45. > :39:49.that is his job. It is not his job see the big picture that,st
:39:49. > :39:55.Government's job to see the big picture, his job is to look after
:39:55. > :40:00.his electorate, and his electorate, lect him to deal with matters such
:40:00. > :40:04.as the matters that within councillors's purview, in Britain
:40:04. > :40:08.at the moment we have a colossal need for housing, and if we don't
:40:08. > :40:12.meet that need, it is going to cause more and more problem. We
:40:12. > :40:17.have a rolled up problem. Alsong, I don't think you are going to
:40:18. > :40:22.disagree, you a keen advocate of Labour's top down tar fete for
:40:22. > :40:26.house building when you were in power. Find. That is why you a
:40:26. > :40:33.strategic overview policy. If you take the figures from the south-
:40:33. > :40:40.west, but in 2010 there were 20,000 homes being built, by the time we
:40:40. > :40:44.got to 2011/12 you are down to 13,000 homes being built. We have a
:40:44. > :40:48.need for 27 thousand new, we have 27 thousand new households being
:40:48. > :40:53.formed in the South Westry year. There is an enormous short fall. We
:40:53. > :40:58.have half the housing we need, and therefore, every decision that is
:40:58. > :41:01.taken locally, which a cuts numbers in half again, is putting enormous
:41:01. > :41:04.pressure on, and the localism bill, we were clear, sorry Martin to
:41:04. > :41:09.persist on this, we were clear that the changes that were being brought
:41:09. > :41:13.in by this Government on planning would lead to more action in the
:41:13. > :41:19.Courts. This is the first exam thooful localism. You talk about
:41:19. > :41:24.figures, the figures are hotly disputed -- disputed generally. Nez
:41:24. > :41:26.are Government figures. What about the sthaition the housing waiting
:41:26. > :41:32.list season an accurate gauge. People exaggerate their
:41:32. > :41:37.circumstances to get on it. There is an issue about the accuracy but
:41:37. > :41:42.a lot of Local Authorities... much of an issue A significant
:41:42. > :41:46.issue, depends on the competency of the council. They may well, in all
:41:46. > :41:51.honesty, have a jn win case, because if you look at Portsmouth
:41:51. > :41:54.for example. Went through the list and they managed to take 5,000
:41:54. > :41:59.households out of it. But that still left a significant demand
:41:59. > :42:03.over and above the houses being built, so there is a job of work to
:42:03. > :42:06.be done on some Local Authority housing lists to ensure they are
:42:06. > :42:10.accurate. I can't comment on Cornwall, I don't know. It doesn't
:42:10. > :42:13.get away from the fact we have a housing crisis. I try to be
:42:13. > :42:19.objective. You weren't billing enough house, it's a finance
:42:19. > :42:22.problem as well. We o have to get to grips with it. It's a major
:42:22. > :42:26.problem for the poor young people of today. This week the Government
:42:26. > :42:28.said it was delaying consultation on minimum pricing for alcohol.
:42:28. > :42:33.That is small consolation for traditional cider makers in the
:42:33. > :42:37.region. They claim it could be disastrous for their businesses. We
:42:37. > :42:42.forced Matt to spend a day surrounded by cider, to find out
:42:43. > :42:47.more. This should be a peaceful time of year for cider makers, it
:42:47. > :42:52.is too late the prune and much too early to pick. Especially given the
:42:52. > :42:56.rotten weather. All you do is keep an eye on the crop, and hope for
:42:56. > :43:00.some sun. But cider makers in the south-west are worried about
:43:00. > :43:06.proposals for a minimum unit price on the alcohol they sell. The same
:43:06. > :43:09.to stop supermarkets and shops from offering very cheap booze, but
:43:09. > :43:16.since traditionally made cider is quite strong, the new rule could
:43:16. > :43:22.have a dramatic effect on price. This is a typical purchase from the
:43:22. > :43:28.shop. This is a 20 litre box, that is often purchased for parties,
:43:28. > :43:35.barbecue, sports events, this retails at �40. But if minimum
:43:35. > :43:40.pricing were introduced, this is likely to set anybody back an extra
:43:40. > :43:44.�30 or �35. Scotland the minimum unit price has been set at 50 pence.
:43:44. > :43:49.A consultation exercise is under way to set a level for England. It
:43:49. > :43:55.is expected to be round 40 pence a unit. But campaign groups like the
:43:55. > :43:59.National Association of Cider makers say higher price also have
:43:59. > :44:03.no effect on binge drinkers but could drive members out of business.
:44:03. > :44:06.If this type of measure were introduced. People wouldn't come
:44:06. > :44:12.out here, sales would drop and you think you have to close down. If
:44:12. > :44:18.you don't get the sales. Because the figures being mentioned would
:44:18. > :44:23.have such a great impact on customer viewpoint. That threat to
:44:23. > :44:26.San cider makers is worrying some south-west MPs. We have had a
:44:27. > :44:31.fantastic rensnans the cider industry, and aping growing in the
:44:32. > :44:35.south-west. We have a lot of sales from farms direct, so it is cheap,
:44:36. > :44:40.direct to the consume e and these prices would be hiked massively if
:44:40. > :44:46.the Government went ahead and introduced minimum pricing, put a
:44:46. > :44:50.lot of producers out of business. summer's evening in the resort of
:44:50. > :44:56.knew I can. The Government estimated irresponsible drinking an
:44:56. > :45:03.the soebstheeb so often follows costs the UK �21 billion a year,
:45:03. > :45:06.and reducing that is the priority. If poem are selling ultra
:45:06. > :45:12.Cheapsideer direct from the farm gates, then, yes, of course they
:45:12. > :45:17.would be taken in by minimum pricing, but it won't be reason to
:45:17. > :45:22.believe set pwhin mum price for one and another for anothers. But the
:45:22. > :45:27.huge threat to cider makers is ultra cheap chemically based cider,
:45:27. > :45:31.sold at 18 pence a unit in the supermarkets. Supporters of minimum
:45:31. > :45:35.pricing say it is a crucial part of the plan to reduce anti-social
:45:35. > :45:43.behaviour drinking, but the concerns still remains that an
:45:43. > :45:52.entire cottage industry... Just like this can of cider could end up
:45:52. > :45:56.down the drain. Alsorpbg I know you support minimum pricing, you saying
:45:56. > :46:00.along with Sarah Wollaston that any pain the small cider producers have
:46:00. > :46:05.to endure is a price worth paying for the broader Bennetts? I think
:46:05. > :46:11.we should try minimum pricing. is what this means. No, I have come
:46:11. > :46:15.from the camera event, which -- CAMRA event, a huge number of cider
:46:15. > :46:19.producers there, and they do take a view, the people I was talking to,
:46:19. > :46:25.that minimum pricing spwhouant a threat to their very specialised
:46:25. > :46:29.and high quality... It is not really to pubs. I want to see
:46:29. > :46:32.people back in pubs actually. I think pubs are having a
:46:32. > :46:38.particularly hard time at the moment. This might be a mechanism
:46:38. > :46:45.to do that. What do you say to these people? This is more complex
:46:45. > :46:49.on whether people buy White Lightning. That is their point.
:46:49. > :46:55.people buying alalcohol. Online purchase of alcohol is rocketing.
:46:55. > :46:59.We have parents buying high volume alcohol for children, which isn't
:46:59. > :47:03.responsible. We will have to wait and see, but the Government are
:47:03. > :47:09.clearly consuls -- consulting on this and I am sure they will listen
:47:09. > :47:14.to the farm gate producers. I am a true liberal and believe in open
:47:14. > :47:18.markets and free markets, why punish the vast majority of law
:47:18. > :47:22.abiding people, no people must learn to take responsibility for
:47:22. > :47:27.themselves, and responsibility for their children. It's a lesson they
:47:27. > :47:32.should learn at school. They should learn it at home. That is easy to
:47:32. > :47:37.say It is easy to say, if they cross the loin, then they will be
:47:37. > :47:43.punished. Alison, your colleague Ben Bradshaw doesn't share you view.
:47:43. > :47:47.He says because it is targeting cheap drink this is penalising the
:47:47. > :47:53.poorest people. It is not the middle class quaffers of fine
:47:53. > :47:57.wines: Not all the ciders at the farm gate are cheap. They are good
:47:57. > :48:02.quality and sometimes organic. Sarah is right. You know, yes, they
:48:02. > :48:10.will be get scooted up a bit, into the mix, but I am not sure how many
:48:10. > :48:14.young people turn up at farm gates trying to buy Cheapsideer. John, I
:48:14. > :48:24.wasn't pointing at you, it is time now for our regular round up of the
:48:24. > :48:30.
:48:30. > :48:33.political week in 60 seconds. Flooding misery prompts a visit
:48:33. > :48:39.from the Environment Secretary. Government will spend more than �2
:48:39. > :48:43.billion on bidding new Flood defences, so properties can be
:48:43. > :48:48.better proprotected. But still no Government deal with the insurers
:48:48. > :48:52.to gather protection beyond next summer. Dairy farmers demand better
:48:52. > :48:59.prices for their milk and get a thumbs up from the high Court for a
:48:59. > :49:04.badger cull and hold on to your seats. Ann-Marie Morris. Thank you.
:49:04. > :49:06.Instant fame for the Newton Abbott MP as she steals the show at Prime
:49:06. > :49:11.Minister's Questions. Will the Prime Minister confirm he will
:49:11. > :49:21.support a further round of applications this autumn and the
:49:21. > :49:32.
:49:32. > :49:36.funding is available so business, universities... Obviously a sketch
:49:36. > :49:41.writers had a field day. A few people commenting on the sketches
:49:41. > :49:44.said this is serious, she was the woman taking on the braiing
:49:44. > :49:51.disruptive oppressive at mo fear in the House of Commons. Do you agree
:49:51. > :49:55.with that? Yes, she came out absolutely fighting and a bit like
:49:55. > :50:00.a volcano erupting, with great passion, and an Marie I know quite
:50:00. > :50:05.well and she is normally, a little bit more subdued so she felt
:50:05. > :50:08.strongly about what she was doing, I have to say that place is a bear
:50:08. > :50:12.pit. Some times if you are not close to the microphone,
:50:12. > :50:16.particularly as a woman you find yourself shouting, in order to get
:50:16. > :50:19.over that baying mob, that is sitting there at Prime Minister's
:50:19. > :50:24.Questions, mine I have no idea quite what was the driver behind
:50:24. > :50:30.her on this occasion, but, she certainly made her point. Well, she
:50:30. > :50:37.did! John, I suppose it was quite arguably a clever way of following
:50:37. > :50:41.the leader of the opposition, and asking what some might describe as
:50:41. > :50:45.a congratulatory question. I have to make a confe, I don't want tch V.
:50:45. > :50:50.It's the first time I have seen it in the studio no now. I think, I
:50:50. > :50:54.have never met her. I think she is courageous but she will have
:50:54. > :50:56.learned a lesson. What Alison has just said. When you are going to
:50:56. > :51:00.ask a question on Prime Minister's Questions you must get yourself
:51:00. > :51:04.under a microphone. Once you have done that, you know what you are
:51:04. > :51:08.going to say and you stick to it. It's the job of the speaker to
:51:08. > :51:13.ensure that everyone is heard. it wasn't the case it was just
:51:13. > :51:18.people yelling too much? There is plenty of yelling but the Speaker