:01:29. > :01:31.The regional pay row at our largest hospital. And the license for
:01:31. > :01:41.Somerset's badger cull trial is issued, but political controversy
:01:41. > :01:41.
:01:41. > :37:12.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2130 seconds
:37:12. > :37:19.Hello. Coming up on the Sunday Politics in the South West... The
:37:19. > :37:23.licence for Somerset's badger cull has been issued, Bobby controversy
:37:23. > :37:27.continues as councillors speak out against the plans. I am joined by
:37:27. > :37:32.Tudor Evans, Labour leader of Plymouth City Council, and Julie
:37:32. > :37:36.Girling, Conservative MEP. First up, health workers in Plymouth who have
:37:36. > :37:41.been drawing up plans to fight proposals for regional pay.
:37:41. > :37:45.Derriford Hospital says it needs to save �45 million over the next
:37:45. > :37:50.three years. It has joined with 19 other NHS trusts in the region to
:37:50. > :37:54.look at pay and conditions. Unions fear that could lead to workers
:37:54. > :37:59.facing pay cuts of up to 20%. You hear a lot of people saying we
:37:59. > :38:03.are all in this together, but it seems to be be people on the front
:38:03. > :38:08.line and those delivering the front care who seemed to be hit hardest.
:38:08. > :38:14.We asked the Prime Minister whether he approved of NHS trusts in the
:38:14. > :38:19.south-west looking at regional pay. It is an issue for them. NHS trusts
:38:19. > :38:23.have a choice of looking at the national framework are looking at
:38:23. > :38:27.local arrangements. We should allow them to manage the NHS as they see
:38:27. > :38:32.it effectively. Do we take it from that that he
:38:32. > :38:38.sees this as a good idea, and do you? The idea has been on the table
:38:38. > :38:45.for many years. I represent the South West, always the most
:38:45. > :38:53.expensive place to live. London and the south-east get regional Pate in
:38:53. > :38:57.effect already. The south-west is or was number two on that list. We
:38:57. > :39:02.need to look at where the South West might benefit from regional
:39:02. > :39:09.pride. Do you think networkers down here will benefit, and where will
:39:09. > :39:16.the extra money come from? -- do you think the workers. The idea is
:39:16. > :39:22.to save money. It does not mean there is going to be an extra �45
:39:22. > :39:26.million available. That is true. Doing that as part of the overall
:39:26. > :39:32.strategy for being more efficient and saving money is not a bad thing.
:39:32. > :39:36.It is wrong to assume... But there is a pay freeze across the board.
:39:36. > :39:41.Any savings must presumably come from pay cuts. The unions are
:39:41. > :39:47.suggesting we could be up to 20%. That is scaremongering, to said
:39:47. > :39:51.they could be up to 20%. When the pay freeze comes off, which it will,
:39:51. > :39:57.they will have to negotiate. The unions will be asking for more
:39:57. > :40:02.money. That is the context in which this should be seen. They will be
:40:02. > :40:08.looking for increases. This is not a bad thing to bring him to do next.
:40:08. > :40:18.Do you agree with that, it is actually a positive outcome? I went
:40:18. > :40:20.
:40:20. > :40:27.to that meeting bad you showed on your front. -- that you should. The
:40:27. > :40:31.motion was carried unanimously, because we know there any move to
:40:31. > :40:38.regionalised play is actually a race to the bottom. Do you think
:40:38. > :40:42.there will be pay increases? course not. They are private every
:40:42. > :40:46.-- privatising their health service. People coming in need to make a
:40:46. > :40:52.profit on reducing budgets. The only way they can do that is pay
:40:52. > :40:56.the staff less. You are against it? Of course. It would be disastrous
:40:56. > :41:01.for the health service, a race to the bottom for public sector pay.
:41:01. > :41:08.This idea that we need to cut the public sector to make a private
:41:08. > :41:11.sector competitive is nonsense. is an issue that is going to run.
:41:11. > :41:19.Labour do not think there will be unions asking for pay increases
:41:19. > :41:22.when the freeze ends, that is interesting.
:41:22. > :41:26.There are plans to privatise some of Cornwall's public services and
:41:26. > :41:30.they are proving unpopular. 5,000 people have signed a petition
:41:30. > :41:33.against the scheme which would see libraries among other things part
:41:33. > :41:40.run by a private company. The council leadership says it will
:41:40. > :41:46.save millions of pounds and create hundreds of jobs. Vital services
:41:46. > :41:52.could be cut, say sceptics. It is apparent -- plan considers
:41:52. > :41:56.believe will save millions a year and create 500 new jobs. BT and an
:41:56. > :42:00.American firm are in the running to form a partnership with the council
:42:00. > :42:04.to provide services such as libraries, Pedro and benefit
:42:04. > :42:14.payments, transferring council staff to the new partnership in the
:42:14. > :42:20.process. -- services such as library services and pay roll.
:42:20. > :42:25.would be against the majority of the council and a great swathe at
:42:25. > :42:31.the general public. They have not only ignored us but ignored the
:42:31. > :42:35.people. But is a dangerous thing to do for democracy. One couple from
:42:35. > :42:45.Perranporth to be petition to more than 1,000 people. They say the
:42:45. > :42:46.
:42:46. > :42:49.vast majority signed up. Were they surprised? No, they were not
:42:49. > :42:56.surprised but they were extremely surprised that the executive has
:42:56. > :43:01.the power were to do that, as was I. That is viewed with incredulity by
:43:01. > :43:06.almost anyone, once you spell out what has happened. The fact but it
:43:06. > :43:10.is legal is astonishing. It is not rocket science but if something
:43:10. > :43:15.goes into privatises hands, whether it is part shared or not, companies
:43:15. > :43:20.want to make a profit. If they do not make a profit, jobs will go,
:43:20. > :43:26.places will be closed, and we may not have as many libraries or a non
:43:26. > :43:32.stop shops or whatever they are going to take out to stare -- share
:43:32. > :43:38.services. In Somerset, a joint venture do not go quite to plan.
:43:38. > :43:45.This is a classic example of how not to do public procurement.
:43:45. > :43:50.South West MP directors' anger at a company, South West One. It led to
:43:50. > :43:55.a �2.1 million overspend this year alone. The they are not saving the
:43:55. > :43:58.money they said and it is becoming obvious but it is a tissue of
:43:58. > :44:01.fabrication. Cornwall Council says it is there were not all
:44:01. > :44:05.partnerships have been successful and they have learnt not to make
:44:05. > :44:09.that the mistakes. They are confident it will be a good deal
:44:09. > :44:14.for the county. The us is an exciting opportunity to create new
:44:14. > :44:20.business in Cornwall but is not seasonal, will create good jobs and
:44:20. > :44:26.it will be written into contract, we are expecting 500 new jobs to be
:44:26. > :44:30.created, as a minimum. The commitment will be written into the
:44:30. > :44:34.contract, with penalties attached if the jobs are not created.
:44:34. > :44:39.final decision to transfer council services to a new firm is due to be
:44:39. > :44:44.made next month. Thanks to the petition, the issue is likely to be
:44:44. > :44:48.debated before then. How much outsourcing does Plymouth
:44:48. > :44:58.City Council do, for example? Are people in Cornwall right to be
:44:58. > :45:03.scared? For gave me, they are next door neighbours and I should not
:45:03. > :45:07.comment on private grief. Everybody out sources, or council steerage to
:45:07. > :45:14.a lesser or greater extent. If you think about our. Social care, for
:45:14. > :45:20.example, we buy in care from a range of providers. -- adult social
:45:20. > :45:26.care. Outsourcing is not anything new. Were this is a departure is
:45:26. > :45:30.the scale. It is the size and range of services being put out all in
:45:30. > :45:34.one go. That is what has created the alarm for so many people in
:45:34. > :45:39.Cornwall and within Cornwall Council. You were in local
:45:39. > :45:42.government before you became an MEP. How is a bet these kinds of
:45:42. > :45:51.outsourcing can supposedly saved money while at the same time create
:45:51. > :45:55.500 jobs, how was it possible -- possible? It is economy of scale.
:45:55. > :46:02.You can get real productivity gains by joining up what is called back
:46:02. > :46:09.office function. Where it can lead to job growth in an area is that
:46:09. > :46:14.you can find, if Plymouth was doing it, they might in fact be employing
:46:14. > :46:20.people in Plymouth who are paying the benefit cheques in London. In
:46:20. > :46:25.many cases, but is very beneficial for regions like the south-west,
:46:26. > :46:31.where people want to live and work. The skill base, in many cases, is
:46:31. > :46:35.there or is being built. Does that happen in Plymouth? We work in
:46:36. > :46:40.partnership. There is an audit partnership between three
:46:40. > :46:45.neighbouring authorities. And the authorities provide services to
:46:45. > :46:51.each other to share costs and save money. This is different, because
:46:51. > :46:57.this is bringing a one provider to do a number of... You would not do
:46:57. > :47:00.it to this scale? The Cabinet are making this decision without
:47:00. > :47:05.reference to anybody else. They are saying but is because they must. It
:47:05. > :47:12.is not about mast, they could ask the council to participate and
:47:12. > :47:21.share the blame. My information is, and councillors are saying they
:47:21. > :47:25.have not seen figures, they have not been shown figures. How can
:47:25. > :47:34.councillors avoid problems like that in Somerset, such as we showed
:47:34. > :47:38.in the front, where the contract went wrong? -- in the film.
:47:38. > :47:41.Councillors are members of the community, they are not necessarily
:47:41. > :47:46.business people, they do not necessarily have the skills
:47:46. > :47:53.themselves. What it is imperative they do is make sure they get the
:47:53. > :47:56.advice. I do not have any detail on what is happening in Cornwall. I
:47:56. > :48:00.would be surprised if the Cabinet had made that decision without
:48:00. > :48:05.getting that level of advice. The Somerset issue is well known
:48:05. > :48:11.throughout the country as having been a problem. Lessons have been
:48:11. > :48:18.put known -- learnt. Lots and shared learning information has
:48:18. > :48:25.been sent out. It does not always work. In Cornwall, been collections
:48:25. > :48:29.have been heavily criticised, but was outsourced. Serco were
:48:29. > :48:35.criticised, railway services were criticised. Why did the Tories
:48:35. > :48:39.think privatisation is better? not think they do. It is not just
:48:39. > :48:43.Conservative councils who are at source at all. Some of the most
:48:43. > :48:47.vigorous councils who are at source are not conservative. It is a mixed
:48:47. > :48:54.bag and it is not a party political issue, it is about combatants and
:48:54. > :48:57.council level. Some councils are good, some are less good. We will
:48:57. > :49:01.come back to you after the next topic.
:49:01. > :49:05.The natural England has issued a licence to allow the culling of
:49:05. > :49:09.badgers in West Somerset. It means up to 70% of badgers in that area
:49:09. > :49:14.will be killed with the aim of preventing the spread of TB in
:49:14. > :49:22.cattle. Pilot,s are also due in Gloucestershire, were some farmers
:49:22. > :49:27.have voted to not allow becoming of badgers on their land. Some local
:49:27. > :49:31.farmers try to do the same thing. It has been a tough year for this
:49:31. > :49:39.former. He found out his herd had contracted TB at the worst possible
:49:39. > :49:49.time. My wife died on 16th April and I went down on 17th April,
:49:49. > :49:49.
:49:50. > :49:56.shattered. I did not have my best friend of 48 years with me, it was
:49:56. > :50:03.awful. Bovine TB is a foreigner problem, but to go early in the
:50:03. > :50:08.south-west, with 40% of heard tapping an instance of the disease
:50:08. > :50:17.in 2010. Eco-trials will involve laying bait and shooting badgers at
:50:17. > :50:27.night. -- the cull trials. There is debate as to whether this will stop
:50:27. > :50:29.
:50:29. > :50:34.me -- the disease. It could cut instances of bovine TB by 16% but
:50:34. > :50:40.there are questions about the scientific evidence. Trials are
:50:40. > :50:44.planned for Costa Show and Somerset. This time could fall into the pilot
:50:44. > :50:48.area and councillors are concerned. Were have had leaflets from
:50:48. > :50:51.organisations who were protest and spent every night for six weeks in
:50:52. > :50:59.the area with loudspeakers, musical instruments, trying to disrupt the
:50:59. > :51:05.cull. This week Stephen and his fellow independent councillor put
:51:05. > :51:10.forward a motion asking the council to ban Colling on its land, even
:51:10. > :51:19.though the council owns very little and in the, Derry, like this car
:51:19. > :51:25.park. -- very little land in the cull area. Badgers move about. The
:51:25. > :51:32.council ended up voting to remain neutral, because the Conservative
:51:32. > :51:37.leader argued there was not the expertise to make a judgment.
:51:37. > :51:44.is a lot of information made available to us. I am not
:51:44. > :51:51.sufficiently skilled to determine from that which is the best way to
:51:51. > :51:59.deal with bovine tuberculosis. councils in Gloucestershire's pilot
:51:59. > :52:05.area have voted against killing badgers on council owned land.
:52:05. > :52:11.Others are angry that their area has not done the same. They were
:52:11. > :52:18.not combatant? Are they confident to look at planning issues or
:52:18. > :52:23.economic regeneration issues? Taunton Deane Borough Council will
:52:23. > :52:28.write to the farming minister to Roger their concern. It will urge
:52:28. > :52:35.the government to devote resources to finding a humane solution to the
:52:36. > :52:41.programme -- problem of bovine TB. This cull is politically toxic,
:52:41. > :52:44.that is why we are still having pilates. No one wants to be the
:52:44. > :52:49.minister in charge of standing up in front of the TV cameras saying
:52:49. > :52:55.they are going to kill 70% of Britain's Burgess. Would you say
:52:55. > :53:00.this will run and run? It is a controversial issue. What we have
:53:00. > :53:10.got here is, let's be clear, but cull is aimed at discovering
:53:10. > :53:16.
:53:16. > :53:21.whether it is it reasonable to'-- 3 should. -- to shoot the badgers. It
:53:21. > :53:25.is to find out if it is a reasonable way to do that. Will
:53:25. > :53:29.protesters will be caught in crossfire? Protesters have done
:53:29. > :53:34.everything they can do to stop it. They have been to the High Court.
:53:34. > :53:38.They need to accept that all of the legal redress, all of the legal
:53:38. > :53:44.Brits are now closed, and if they are irresponsible enough to start
:53:44. > :53:51.banging drums and blowing whistles and lighting in darkness, when
:53:51. > :53:55.people are trying to shoot badgers, there could be a terrible accident.
:53:55. > :54:00.It has to be absolutely clear that it is the responsibility of those
:54:00. > :54:06.people to refrain from that behaviour. The idea of shooting
:54:06. > :54:15.badgers in car parks is totally wrong, isn't it? It is run anywhere,
:54:15. > :54:22.to be honest. At this week's Labour conference we heard that the
:54:22. > :54:30.science does not support this action anywhere. That is an opinion.
:54:30. > :54:38.The science clearly is mixed. point is that there is a lot of the
:54:38. > :54:45.farming community with the Conservative Party and they are
:54:45. > :54:51.struggling at a local level. The science is not equivocal about that.
:54:51. > :54:54.If we forget the science for the moment, I am interested in this
:54:54. > :54:59.subject Ahmed being politically toxic. Labour had various trials
:54:59. > :55:03.and never achieved anything. We did not kill the badgers and we are not
:55:03. > :55:11.going to either. You ploughed �50 million into killing by just over
:55:11. > :55:17.10 years but never did anything about it. A lot of people will find
:55:17. > :55:22.this whole thing distasteful, to be honest, when you know that the
:55:22. > :55:27.science is... They might also have said that Labour should not have
:55:27. > :55:32.ploughed �50 million into killing? Let's focus on what is about to
:55:32. > :55:36.happen rather than blaming us for what did not happen. Do you want
:55:36. > :55:45.people running around the south- west with a shot guns, blowing
:55:45. > :55:49.badgers up in car parks? I have to interrupt. To say that people will
:55:49. > :55:55.be running around the area with a shot guns, it is not a shot on
:55:55. > :55:59.trial. Nobody will be out with a shotgun. But would be unsuitable.
:55:59. > :56:06.Yes, they will be shot, but not with a shot guns. They will not be
:56:06. > :56:11.done roaming the area. The region - - the reason it is toxic is because
:56:11. > :56:19.the lack of attempting -- attention to detail, the emotive language, it
:56:19. > :56:23.is much more serious than that. Before we move on, an update from
:56:23. > :56:27.Ann Widdecombe, who last week told us better-off pensioners like her
:56:27. > :56:31.should not get the winter fuel allowance. One of our guests
:56:31. > :56:35.suggested she give the money back. It turns out she already does. She
:56:35. > :56:43.gives her an allowance to the Devon Community Foundation which last
:56:43. > :56:53.winter helped 250 people who could not afford to keep themselves warm.
:56:53. > :56:54.
:56:55. > :56:59.Now, 60 seconds. Overweight children should be given
:56:59. > :57:04.Free School moves to improve their eating habits said the Totnes MP.
:57:04. > :57:09.85% of children who are obese will become obese adults. It is time to
:57:09. > :57:12.address it. Train passengers were told they
:57:12. > :57:16.would have to wait even longer for improvements as the government's
:57:16. > :57:24.tendering process went off the rails.
:57:24. > :57:28.In Dorset, Virgin's plan to take over NHS services was questioned by
:57:28. > :57:33.the mayor of Lyme Regis. We need to know what this will do for us
:57:33. > :57:38.rather than for them. People living near a proposed
:57:38. > :57:42.incinerator outside Ivybridge were upset by the Environment Agency's
:57:42. > :57:47.support for the plans. The Devon parlays woman who was
:57:47. > :57:56.banned from Twitter for her comments about student drinking was
:57:56. > :58:02.backed by air can't serve her. -- backed by a counsellor.
:58:02. > :58:06.A busy week. Let's let's get this issue of
:58:07. > :58:13.giving obese children free school meals. This is something that
:58:13. > :58:19.Totnes MP NDP is pushing for. Is it something you would support? --
:58:19. > :58:27.Thomas MP and GP. For someone who has eaten all the pilots -- pies,
:58:27. > :58:32.we would be better restoring that sports schools partnerships. Have
:58:32. > :58:37.we to get proper p going again, that would be far more useful. -- P.
:58:37. > :58:45.There is a link between obesity and poverty, so this could be an
:58:45. > :58:53.educational programme? Be it sounds very top dance. -- it sounds very
:58:53. > :59:00.top down. I know she is a GP but I do not like her social programmes.
:59:00. > :59:04.In his this their nanny state? Ghosh, not often accused of that. I
:59:04. > :59:11.actually have great respect for Sarah. She has expertise and I'm
:59:11. > :59:15.listening to her. An idea around trying to help children make better
:59:16. > :59:25.choices with what they eat is no different than an idea around try
:59:26. > :59:26.
:59:26. > :59:31.to make the government -- trying to make adults more aware of food
:59:31. > :59:36.labelling. Why not help children? It is how you do it, the devil is
:59:36. > :59:42.in the detail. Surely children from wealthy families does not deserve
:59:42. > :59:47.three means? Maybe they deserved a free meal if that is going to make