:01:25. > :01:29.In the south west: The councillor who says services will be cut
:01:29. > :01:39.unless tax is put up. And, the latest in the wind turbine
:01:39. > :01:39.
:01:39. > :37:52.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2173 seconds
:37:52. > :37:55.Hello, I'm Lucie Fisher. Coming up on the Sunday Politics in the South
:37:55. > :38:00.West: The wind turbine row continues, as one senior
:38:00. > :38:04.Conservative talks about the risks of renewable energy.
:38:04. > :38:07.And, to discuss that and much more besides, I'm joined by two Lords.
:38:07. > :38:11.The Lib Dem Lord Burnett, and Labour's Lord Whitty. Welcome, both
:38:11. > :38:14.of you, to the programme. We're going to start by asking
:38:14. > :38:17.whether David Cameron's speech this week addressed the concern from one
:38:17. > :38:21.of his own MPs, that the Conservatives were being perceived
:38:21. > :38:25.as the party for posh boys. The MP for Camborne and Redruth, George
:38:25. > :38:29.Eustice, is reported to have said that, being thought of as the party
:38:29. > :38:32.of the rich could be a "major problem" at the election. He's said
:38:32. > :38:39.to be concerned about "unforced errors" by fellow Tory MPs which,
:38:40. > :38:44.he says, have damaged public perception of the party.
:38:45. > :38:49.He might have been talking about Andrew Mitchell and his comment to
:38:49. > :38:55.police officers. Lord Burnett, as a coalition, did you think David
:38:55. > :39:00.Cameron did enough to allay any of these fears about posh Tory boys?
:39:00. > :39:06.He seemed to be tried to talk about spreading the privilege, to turn it
:39:06. > :39:10.into an advantage if you like? I think he has to act in relation
:39:10. > :39:17.to the Andrew Mitchell affair. Because it is now simmering. In
:39:17. > :39:20.fact, it is coming to a boil. If you are a Tory member of Parliament,
:39:20. > :39:24.and you read that the Daily Telegraph has a leader of saying,
:39:24. > :39:28.Andrew Mitchell must go, I believe there's something in the Spectator
:39:28. > :39:32.magazine coming out as well, you have to be concerned, and I think
:39:32. > :39:36.the Prime Minister might well be concerned. Some of this is unfair
:39:36. > :39:41.but you cannot have the police being undermined. They do a
:39:41. > :39:45.wonderful job in our country. about this notion of privilege, can
:39:45. > :39:50.he spread that? Was about people whose benefits are being cut, it
:39:50. > :39:57.it's a hard sell if you say privilege is being spread about?
:39:57. > :40:02.That is certainly true. There is an aura of privilege among the Cabinet.
:40:02. > :40:07.And Nick Clegg, he has a privileged background. Is that damaging?
:40:07. > :40:14.have a privileged background as well. What greatest present I ever
:40:14. > :40:20.learnt, as a Royal Marine officer, when I saw the men under my command,
:40:20. > :40:24.the most imperative lesson was, if they had had half my advantages,
:40:24. > :40:29.they would be the officer, and I would be the enlisted men.
:40:29. > :40:34.Sometimes I think that lessons like that come through experience and
:40:34. > :40:39.time, and maybe that is something some members of the government, it
:40:39. > :40:45.is a lesson some of them have got to learn. Lord Whitty, was it a
:40:45. > :40:48.mistake to attack Ed Miliband? not very clever to say it Ed
:40:48. > :40:52.Miliband is a bit posh when the whole of the Tory, that everybody
:40:53. > :40:57.knows it is extremely posh. It doesn't matter if you are posh, as
:40:57. > :41:03.long as you behave in away which relate to other people. The problem
:41:03. > :41:06.with Andrew Mitchell, this is about an arrogant and elitist behaviour
:41:06. > :41:12.which is a serious problem, one which is borne out by some of the
:41:12. > :41:20.policies they are pursuing, including cutting the benefits. To
:41:20. > :41:25.do that at the same time as you have a very rich looking government,
:41:25. > :41:30.actually does not impress people. What about the reshuffle, what you
:41:30. > :41:34.make of it? I would like to say, not every member of the Cabinet is
:41:34. > :41:40.privileged or wealthy, and the benefits argument is an argument
:41:40. > :41:47.which is different. As for the reshuffle, I was particularly
:41:47. > :41:52.concerned that we had abandoned the defence portfolio. We had an
:41:52. > :41:55.extremely able minister, it is not just the same that, but the senior
:41:55. > :42:03.people in the armed forces telling me, civil servants, his fellow
:42:03. > :42:07.Conservative ministers. We have also exchanged it for International
:42:07. > :42:12.Development. I do not think politically that was a smart move,
:42:12. > :42:15.I did not think it then or now. Plenty more to discuss. Eric
:42:15. > :42:18.Pickles has once again tried to persuade councils not to increase
:42:18. > :42:21.council tax, announcing this week that there'll be another freeze
:42:21. > :42:25.fund next year. It's money which councils can use instead of putting
:42:25. > :42:28.up council tax. He says it will help taxpayers, struggling to make
:42:28. > :42:38.ends meet. But one senior Cornwall councillor has warned services will
:42:38. > :42:43.have to be cut, unless council tax goes up. Tamsin Melville reports.
:42:43. > :42:49.Meet Henry Davies, a self employed, married father of two living in
:42:49. > :42:54.Truro. Henry pays �160 a month council-tax on his home. Although
:42:54. > :42:59.the household budget can be tapped, he thinks this is value-for-money.
:42:59. > :43:03.I would always like to pay less but there are realities. Yes, I
:43:03. > :43:08.certainly feel more comfortable paying council tax band I do paying
:43:08. > :43:12.water bills. It is people like Henry, from a hard-working family,
:43:12. > :43:18.that the Local Government Secretary said today he wants to help.
:43:18. > :43:21.believe in lower taxes. Whereas Labour doubles council tax, we have
:43:21. > :43:26.worked with councils for the last two years to freeze it. And this
:43:26. > :43:33.year, we are offering additional funding to help councils freeze
:43:33. > :43:38.their bills again. Eric Pickles has offered a grant equivalent putting
:43:38. > :43:42.council tax up by 1%, compared to last year of 2.5%, with the money
:43:42. > :43:47.needed to help fund already squeezing frontline services like
:43:47. > :43:55.rubbish bin collections, libraries and parks, one senior Cornwall
:43:55. > :43:59.councillor is not impressed. If the council goes away nervously with
:43:59. > :44:03.the 1%, then front line services will be cut. The new cuts of next
:44:03. > :44:08.May will have a horrendous problem. How many councillors will be brave
:44:08. > :44:12.enough and bite the bullet and say, we will put up council tax because,
:44:12. > :44:17.in the long turn, it is the best thing for our people and everybody.
:44:17. > :44:24.It's not just the shrinking grant getting some backs up in local
:44:24. > :44:28.government. The 2011 Act allows President Obama's to veto excessive
:44:28. > :44:33.council tax rises by referendum. Last year, the government said the
:44:33. > :44:39.trigger at a 3.5% increase, this year it is suggested that goes down
:44:39. > :44:43.to 2%. One public finance expert doesn't think this sits well with
:44:43. > :44:47.the governors vocalism policy. third year we have been freezing
:44:47. > :44:52.council tax with government making the running. Making those decisions.
:44:52. > :44:56.There is a danger here that we will end up forgetting that the council
:44:56. > :45:03.tax is really a local tax, set by local councils, every important
:45:03. > :45:07.part of local democracy. Last year, this was one or two authorities to
:45:07. > :45:12.reject the freeze funds and asked residents to pay more, avoiding a
:45:12. > :45:17.hole in the next Budget. Cornwall went for the freeze but bills
:45:17. > :45:21.across the counter went up anyway as the police of 30 and towns and
:45:21. > :45:27.pressures put their parts up. Henry thinks it is difficult. Part of me
:45:27. > :45:32.wants to say, yes, freeze it, I am happier. I think there is a middle
:45:32. > :45:36.ground where they could be a slight rise but not in line with inflation.
:45:36. > :45:44.If you freeze it, in the short turn a lot of people will be happy, but
:45:44. > :45:48.actually it's the services which would have an adverse effect.
:45:48. > :45:52.Eric Pickles, this is to get councils cutting back on spending.
:45:52. > :45:58.In Cornwall, with local elections looming, more budget cuts on the
:45:58. > :46:02.way, no let up in the demand for frontline services, politicians
:46:02. > :46:06.face a tricky balancing act. Lord Burnett, this hot from the
:46:06. > :46:09.government is a short-term fix. If they accept it, councils will find
:46:09. > :46:15.they have to make even more sudden cuts down the line. Can that be
:46:15. > :46:22.right? I was delighted to hear what West Devon and South Hams have done
:46:22. > :46:25.on your report. They are at an efficient council. Led by their
:46:25. > :46:30.last chief executive. You are pleased they haven't accepted the
:46:30. > :46:35.offer by Eric Pickles? I am actually. Because efficiency and
:46:35. > :46:40.value for money of what the public want. Now, there are, built into
:46:40. > :46:44.the system, going to be extra demands, especially with care homes
:46:44. > :46:50.and care for the elderly. That is something that is brewing up to be
:46:50. > :46:53.a major problem. But it is good for the taxpayer? Good for the taxpayer
:46:53. > :46:58.and also for the public as well. With councils that are not
:46:58. > :47:02.efficient, they will have to work with fewer people, but more
:47:02. > :47:09.efficiently, more productively. Before the last election...
:47:09. > :47:14.freeze to fund -- freeze fund would be good, at a time when people
:47:14. > :47:18.cannot afford it. The problem is, if you take the freeze fund, you
:47:18. > :47:22.are not necessarily going to get it next year. You are going to spend
:47:22. > :47:27.money which will not be replicated next year which is a problem.
:47:27. > :47:31.Whitty, should council tax be frozen at the moment or is it
:47:31. > :47:40.putting vital services at risk? think the councils should make
:47:40. > :47:44.their own government -- judgment. I this government started out with
:47:44. > :47:48.benign talk about localism. In fact, what Eric Pickles is now saying,
:47:48. > :47:53.you can have because of but if you take the wrong decision by what
:47:53. > :47:58.overall view. He is doing it on housing and planning. It is an
:47:58. > :48:07.internal condition in relation to the government policy. Lord
:48:07. > :48:12.Burnett? On planning, he is talking about muscular because of. To go
:48:12. > :48:18.back to the point on council tax. The issue of vocalism, it isn't
:48:18. > :48:22.taking power away from local councils on vital issues? 80% of
:48:22. > :48:26.what local government spends comes from central government any way.
:48:26. > :48:32.Central government should have a say in it. It wouldn't bother you
:48:32. > :48:36.at all. Lord Whitty, you talked, you said it would give the decision
:48:36. > :48:45.to local people but you haven't said whether you agree with it
:48:45. > :48:52.being frozen? It is in light of their position on their own budget
:48:52. > :48:58.and in their community. Actually, in other countries, the balance is
:48:58. > :49:07.much more towards the local level. Local problems should be solved by
:49:07. > :49:13.local of priorities. David, says Labour doesn't want to interfere at
:49:13. > :49:20.-- just wants to put up taxes and spending. Some local councils may
:49:20. > :49:25.well freeze. By. Is it should be a local decision. The issue about
:49:25. > :49:29.borrowing -- my point is that it should be a local decision. Local
:49:30. > :49:36.communities should make their own decision and not be imposed upon.
:49:36. > :49:41.have to stop you there. A brief word? Remember that if councillors,
:49:41. > :49:45.local councillors, wish to increase the rates of council tax by more
:49:45. > :49:51.than 2.5%, there has to be a referendum. You have the chance
:49:51. > :49:54.there for local decision-making. Arguments about wind turbines have
:49:54. > :49:57.been raging for years now. There are those who think they're the
:49:58. > :50:01.answer to the country's green energy needs. Others see them as a
:50:01. > :50:03.blight on the landscape. The recent reshuffle cast doubts about the
:50:03. > :50:06.Government's support for renewable energy. And, this week, the new
:50:06. > :50:15.Environment Secretary said wind farms risk upsetting local people.
:50:15. > :50:19.John Henderson reports. Has the great wind debate taken a
:50:19. > :50:22.dramatic step forward? Listen to what the Environment Secretary said
:50:22. > :50:26.to the Conservative Party conference this week.
:50:26. > :50:32.relationship between renewable energy sources, and the communities
:50:32. > :50:38.we expect to host them, must be appropriate, and sustainable. Above
:50:38. > :50:44.all, acceptable to local people. Tuesday night, and the local people
:50:44. > :50:49.are meeting here near Totnes. Passions are running high. Up for
:50:49. > :50:55.discussion, the prospect of two wind turbines in the parish.
:50:56. > :51:01.Acceptable? Listen. If they go ahead and the noise is as bad as
:51:01. > :51:05.the report says it will be, then we will move out. It is about the
:51:05. > :51:10.noise and use it to our countryside every day and every night way you
:51:10. > :51:16.cannot get away from it. And the health issues associated with it.
:51:16. > :51:22.We are really lucky to live here, so the least we can do his to find
:51:22. > :51:28.ways of making our own energy. wrote to councillors to support it.
:51:28. > :51:32.This animation shows what they are talking about, plans for two of 100
:51:32. > :51:37.metre high wind turbines capable of producing enough renewable energy
:51:37. > :51:43.to supplied approximately 2,500 homes each year. When it comes to
:51:43. > :51:48.acceptable community support, those behind the wind farm believe they
:51:49. > :51:53.are in the majority. The majority view prevails. The most recent
:51:53. > :51:58.government opinion poll shows 65% of the population in favour of
:51:58. > :52:04.onshore wind. Locally, we can see that playing out with our
:52:04. > :52:09.supporters. The number of people that turn up for the anti- campaign
:52:10. > :52:13.begins his 40. We have 500 members locally. Who have all put money in,
:52:13. > :52:18.have all made an investment on the possibility of gaining planning
:52:18. > :52:22.consent on this site. Government subsidies for wind farms have been
:52:22. > :52:25.cut by 10% or those some Conservatives wanted deeper cuts
:52:25. > :52:30.hoping it would stop what they believe is the march of the wind
:52:30. > :52:35.turbines across the countryside. One Cabinet Mr issued a coded
:52:35. > :52:43.message that subsidies could still be cut further. My department will
:52:43. > :52:47.work closely, as it considers future support levels for LOCOG and
:52:47. > :52:52.energy. This will ensure that the impact of these new technologies on
:52:52. > :52:57.the rural economy, and Environment, is fully taken into account.
:52:57. > :53:04.that is music to the Air -- to the ears of campaigners who want to
:53:04. > :53:10.show the scale of the turbines here. This is one third of the total
:53:10. > :53:15.height so it will go a lot higher. Lowest by some, loved by others.
:53:15. > :53:22.The divisive nature of wind farms stretches from those in power, to
:53:22. > :53:27.wear that power is generated. Lord Whitty, given what you were
:53:27. > :53:30.saying about local issues being in the hands of local people. Is the
:53:30. > :53:36.Environment Secretary right to say proposals for things like wind
:53:36. > :53:41.turbines should be acceptable to local people? I think local people
:53:41. > :53:45.have to put their view, but as the gentleman in the clip said, there
:53:45. > :53:50.is greatly exaggerated attention to those who are against. He said in
:53:50. > :53:59.his area the majority of the population are in favour. Except it
:53:59. > :54:04.is a big voice. You do hear a huge voice from those people against it?
:54:04. > :54:08.You do have to take the decision side-by-side, the local community
:54:08. > :54:13.needs to have a view. What worries made far more is the appointment of
:54:13. > :54:18.Owen Paterson to head of environment, when he is manifestly
:54:19. > :54:22.not convinced about man-made climate change, and not on the
:54:22. > :54:30.carbon reduction agenda. There are changes in the energy department as
:54:30. > :54:37.well. The government has switched from support at the beginning of
:54:37. > :54:41.office, to being against it, which is seriously worrying. Lord Burnett,
:54:41. > :54:46.are the government turning their back on a green energy? Can I talk
:54:46. > :54:55.about localism again? You went to a local when you were in office.
:54:56. > :55:02.Answer it first about this government reshuffle, we have a
:55:02. > :55:06.cautious renewable energy secretary. I know Owen Paterson, he is an
:55:06. > :55:09.honourable man, I am sure he will look at the evidence. I am
:55:09. > :55:14.convinced there is a problem with climate change but not convinced
:55:14. > :55:17.that the answer is onshore wind turbines. When I was Member of
:55:17. > :55:21.Parliament by opposed the number of them in my constituency, I am not
:55:21. > :55:27.sure the case has been made for their effectiveness in addressing
:55:27. > :55:31.climate change. So you are pleased to see Owen Paterson? I am entirely,
:55:31. > :55:38.he will be a good secretary of state. You have to ask yourself,
:55:38. > :55:42.there is a cost in producing wind turbines, a cost in installing them.
:55:42. > :55:48.The wind does not blow all the time. In places but Cornwall at the
:55:48. > :55:53.forefront of renewable energy, places like this have benefited.
:55:53. > :56:00.That is because of the subsidies. Are these onshore wind farms
:56:00. > :56:08.worthwhile in addressing this? think you can argue about the level
:56:08. > :56:12.of subsidy. We need to move rapidly to develop all forms of renewable
:56:12. > :56:18.energy and nuclear energy, and get away from a fossil fuel based
:56:18. > :56:25.energy mix. If decisions like this, apparent changes of tack by the
:56:25. > :56:33.government on this, slow down this, the cost will be huge to everyone.
:56:33. > :56:38.We have a measure of agreement between us. Yes, nuclear, yes of
:56:38. > :56:43.shelf -- offshore wind energy. Onshore wind power I do not believe
:56:43. > :56:47.is necessarily a good deal for Britain. Lord Whitty, do you think
:56:47. > :56:55.Labour bail out try to move in and seize some of this green agenda for
:56:55. > :57:01.their own? David Cameron introduced the Greentree as the logo, do you
:57:01. > :57:06.think maybe there is a creativity shift here? The Labour garment in
:57:06. > :57:10.its time did adopt some effective green measures but I wanted them to
:57:10. > :57:15.go further. If the Conservatives, I would say about the Liberal
:57:15. > :57:20.Democrats, if the Conservatives are abandoning background... Ed David
:57:20. > :57:25.is the energy secretary who does seem to be championing the cause.
:57:25. > :57:31.Only today, Ed Davey succumbed to Treasury pressure on reducing,
:57:31. > :57:36.abolishing what was a good idea of the government... May I remind you,
:57:36. > :57:46.there isn't a limitless pit of money to spend. Now, our regular
:57:46. > :57:52.
:57:52. > :57:57.round-up of the political week in Clashes at sea between French and
:57:57. > :58:02.south west fishermen, send in the Navy, said the MP for South East
:58:02. > :58:08.Cornwall. I did feel that the situation was becoming out of hand,
:58:08. > :58:13.and was beginning to become more inflated. Cash is on land, anti-
:58:13. > :58:17.nuclear campaigners tried to stop a new power station. The Green Party
:58:17. > :58:26.leader said she supported them. The fact is the government isn't
:58:26. > :58:36.listening to the people. A Devon mother who has gained -- against
:58:36. > :58:43.
:58:43. > :58:53.the takeover of child care by The same people are asking me to
:58:53. > :58:54.
:58:54. > :59:02.movies. What do you do? -- to move these.
:59:02. > :59:08.These clashes between the Fisher men. Lord Burnett, is it necessary
:59:08. > :59:15.for a French navy vessel to move them? Do you think this hasn't
:59:15. > :59:22.worked? I do, it creates tension. It is very bad for our country. And
:59:22. > :59:29.bad for Europe. What about UKIP calling for the British Navy to be
:59:29. > :59:39.deployed? Would this level of disputes have provoked a ship to
:59:39. > :59:44.patrol? No, I really don't think so. That is exaggeration. I think a
:59:44. > :59:49.little bit of diplomacy is what is needed. Lord Whitty? What you make
:59:49. > :59:55.of this? It is clear there is not a Common Fisheries Policy in this
:59:55. > :00:04.area. I do not know if this is a short-term local issue. If it
:00:04. > :00:08.develops, we need the capacity to stand by to intervene if necessary.
:00:08. > :00:15.The real issue is how we have a proper fisheries policy across all
:00:15. > :00:19.of Europe. I understand, in the past, the Navy has been sent to
:00:19. > :00:27.patrol in these instances, to almost all disputes amongst
:00:27. > :00:33.fishermen. I think I might challenge that. In the past, these
:00:33. > :00:37.have been serious events. If lives are at risk, then there will be a