:01:27. > :01:30.In the South West, the biggest crime rise in England and Wales
:01:30. > :01:40.sets the scene for the election of Devon and Cornwall's first Police
:01:40. > :01:40.
:01:40. > :37:29.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2149 seconds
:37:29. > :37:32.Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics in the South West. Today
:37:33. > :37:37.we are talking about the brave new world in policing which begins on
:37:37. > :37:41.Thursday when we collect our first Police and Crime Commissioners. We
:37:42. > :37:45.will be hearing for from the candidates for the top job in Devon
:37:45. > :37:51.and Cornwall, and hearing from some guests.
:37:51. > :37:55.Tamsin Melville has been looking at the major changes about take place.
:37:55. > :38:00.When the looters hit Branscombe Beach in Devon after the Napoli ran
:38:00. > :38:08.aground, it was the then Chief Constable of Devon & Cornwall
:38:08. > :38:13.Police who stepped up to defend it allegations of ineptitude. If we
:38:13. > :38:17.find that we are -- if we find that they are selling it, we will deal
:38:17. > :38:22.with that through the theft Act. For a decade it has been the chief
:38:22. > :38:26.who is the public face of the force, but that is about to change.
:38:26. > :38:30.Do most important way we are restoring the link between the
:38:30. > :38:35.police and the public is through the election of Police and Crime
:38:35. > :38:39.Commissioners. The new commissioners will replace
:38:39. > :38:43.police authorities. Seen here cavorting to put up the police part
:38:43. > :38:49.of council tax, Devon and Cornwall authority has not often been in the
:38:49. > :38:54.headlines. Have you heard of the Police Authority? A I have not.
:38:54. > :38:58.do you think it makes the funding decisions? Or I have no idea.
:38:58. > :39:03.you ever heard of the police authority. I have not.
:39:03. > :39:05.A made up of local councillors, the police authorities on its way out,
:39:05. > :39:12.with its powers going to the new commissioners.
:39:12. > :39:15.The majority of people in Camborne are not aware of the role the
:39:15. > :39:18.Police Authority plays in setting the force's budget. The Government
:39:18. > :39:21.hopes that giving this power to an elected Commissioner will give
:39:22. > :39:27.people more of a say. The chief constable will still run
:39:27. > :39:33.the force, but it is the PCC's job to hold them to account. He or she
:39:33. > :39:37.will be finalised the force budget and have the powers to hire and
:39:37. > :39:42.fire chief constables. They will also hold the purse strings for
:39:42. > :39:48.victims services. Those who represent them are worried. My main
:39:48. > :39:54.concern is that whoever gets elected boards a fair commissioning
:39:54. > :39:58.process in place, so that the money is allocated in a transparent way.
:39:58. > :40:03.In the Commissioner is holding the chief constable to account, who
:40:03. > :40:10.keeps an eye on the Commissioner? Mike Firbank is the rector of
:40:10. > :40:13.Camborne. He says it is not clear yet how much influence it has.
:40:13. > :40:17.hope the panel will have a really good relationship with their
:40:17. > :40:23.Commissioner, and be able to support them whilst also asking
:40:23. > :40:30.difficult and challenging commission -- questions. But all we
:40:30. > :40:36.can do is see where this all Leeds. In it is a big job for weather gets
:40:36. > :40:39.it, and with question marks of a public engagement, they are fears
:40:39. > :40:45.of a how much of a mandate the Police and Crime Commissioner will
:40:45. > :40:49.really have. By I am joined by Jim Webster, a
:40:49. > :40:55.former police chief here in Plymouth, and by a political
:40:55. > :40:58.analyst Adrian Lee. Jim, you had a lot to do with the
:40:58. > :41:04.old Police Authority. How much of the difference is this new role
:41:04. > :41:09.likely to have? For the first couple of years we could be in a
:41:09. > :41:13.phoney war. I think we will find that the commissioner will come in,
:41:13. > :41:19.have some ideas, but quite quickly find that they cannot change things
:41:19. > :41:24.quickly. There are budgets already set, and actually for the average
:41:24. > :41:29.police officer on the street this will not affect them too much.
:41:29. > :41:34.Government insists that he or she will not interfere, but a Home
:41:34. > :41:38.Office website says they will be responsible for everything from
:41:38. > :41:44.CCTV and graffiti to tackling in gangs and drug dealing. That sounds
:41:44. > :41:48.pretty hard core staff. I can't imagine them getting their hands to
:41:48. > :41:52.dirty with that. If you look at their first 100 day plan, it is
:41:52. > :41:58.almost impossible. The box that they are going to set the budget,
:41:58. > :42:04.it is not going to happen. The police will vote at the policing
:42:04. > :42:08.plan, and offer it to the commissioner. The commissioner will
:42:08. > :42:14.sign it off. But the Budget will be said. There is no way they will
:42:14. > :42:22.step in... Should people vote than in any case? I think it is good to
:42:22. > :42:26.vote, but it is quite useful that the prospective low turnout divided
:42:26. > :42:31.over ten candidates means quite a no mandate, and I would not expect
:42:31. > :42:36.such a person to make too much of an impact too early on. Adrian,
:42:36. > :42:41.what is your view? The powers are on the face of it really a rather
:42:41. > :42:47.significant. But they will actually be considerably constrained, not
:42:47. > :42:53.only by budgetary factors in terms of those factors restricting
:42:53. > :42:59.manoeuvre, but also by the police and crime come -- Police and Crime
:42:59. > :43:07.Panel. The panel member did not seem particularly confident. He is
:43:08. > :43:11.one of the Coptic independence. rest of the panel on councillors
:43:12. > :43:16.drawn from across Devon and Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly,
:43:16. > :43:20.including the mayor of Torbay and the leader of Devon County Council.
:43:20. > :43:24.Are you telling me that despite everything the Government is saying,
:43:24. > :43:30.and the time and money being spent on this, not much is going to
:43:30. > :43:35.change? Guthrie bodies that have to work together to make it work. --
:43:35. > :43:38.there are three bodies. The police constable, the Police and Crime
:43:38. > :43:46.Commissioner and the Police and Crime Panel. With a Home Secretary
:43:46. > :43:50.sitting somewhere in the background. Jim, is this a waste of time?
:43:50. > :43:55.quite different in London - you have their Police and Crime
:43:55. > :43:58.Commissioner, who is the mayor. He has access to the budget of
:43:58. > :44:05.Transport for London, the fire brigade, so he can bring to bear
:44:05. > :44:08.lots of budgets outside policing. Inside the -- in the PCC here, he
:44:08. > :44:15.or she will have access to the police budget and that is basically
:44:15. > :44:19.it. So it is hard to think they will make a huge difference.
:44:19. > :44:21.There are no fewer than ten candidates standing for the new job
:44:21. > :44:25.but in Devon and Cornwall. We couldn't fit them all into the
:44:25. > :44:29.studio but we caught up with all of them to ask why we should vote for
:44:29. > :44:35.them. I have got the experience, their
:44:35. > :44:41.commitment, the drive, the energy. I have run my own business for
:44:41. > :44:46.almost 20 years I am fully committed to maintaining as many of
:44:46. > :44:48.our powers in this country as possible. We should not be
:44:48. > :44:54.contributing �50 million a day to the European Union, but we should
:44:54. > :44:59.take it back and stop the cuts in Devon & Cornwall Police. As a
:44:59. > :45:04.former police officer I have experience of policing. I have
:45:04. > :45:08.dealt with the members of the public who deserve and pay for a
:45:08. > :45:12.better police force. So I think I am the candidate with the most
:45:12. > :45:17.experience in dealing with members of the public, which is what the
:45:17. > :45:22.PCC is about. People should vote for me because this job is all
:45:22. > :45:28.about people, and joining up the police and its community. I have
:45:28. > :45:32.had 33 years in the Royal Navy Blair I ran big organisations, I
:45:32. > :45:38.went into industry and then I worked for the specialist youth
:45:38. > :45:44.organisation. I have been a duty solicitor for 20 year is. I know
:45:44. > :45:51.where we can make efficiencies. I am generally -- genuinely
:45:51. > :45:57.independent. I am not a council- owned one minute for a party, then
:45:57. > :46:04.one minute independent. I want this to happen. I am focused on
:46:04. > :46:08.preventing crime before it happens. I am a professional, not a
:46:08. > :46:12.politician, and I am truly committed to working for the people
:46:12. > :46:18.of Devon and Cornwall. I'm used to working with multi million pound
:46:18. > :46:24.budgets. In these challenging times, we are going to need partners to
:46:24. > :46:28.come to the table to deliver multi- agency services. The police cannot
:46:28. > :46:33.work in isolation, so we need to invest in partnership to release
:46:33. > :46:40.police to do what they do best, police our streets. I was the roast
:46:40. > :46:44.recent chairman of the police authority. -- most recent. I am a
:46:44. > :46:51.people person, I want to get the principles of looking after people
:46:51. > :46:57.established even better. A I am a local businessman, a former Royal
:46:57. > :47:01.Marine of 13 years' service. I want to hold the chief constable and
:47:01. > :47:07.senior officers to account for their actions and reactions. Once
:47:07. > :47:10.word sums it up - experience. I have been the chairman of the
:47:10. > :47:15.police authority, and served on the national body for police
:47:15. > :47:22.authorities. I have been in public service for a long time as leader
:47:22. > :47:27.of North Devon Council. Be pushing vote for me because I'm going to
:47:27. > :47:33.deal with the street crime. We have a problem with alcohol-related
:47:33. > :47:38.crime. We have had 20,000 incidence of violent crime in the past year
:47:38. > :47:42.here in Devon and Cornwall. That is an increase of 10% in the level of
:47:42. > :47:46.violent crime. I will introduce zero-tolerance policing to deal
:47:46. > :47:52.with that. We cannot go on like this, it is not fair on our young
:47:52. > :47:56.people, the young -- largest victims of crime.
:47:56. > :48:04.If you're watching in Dorset or Somerset, you can see your local
:48:04. > :48:08.BBC website. Four candidates in Avon and Somerset.
:48:08. > :48:14.The far South West is not seen as a hotbed of lawmen of -- enormous
:48:14. > :48:18.mess, but the candidate for that region is facing at a worrying
:48:18. > :48:23.challenged. Murray and Amanda runs a
:48:23. > :48:29.hairdressing salon in Tevez them. A few weeks ago, burglars smashed a
:48:29. > :48:34.window and took their say. I was devastated. We were not cut --
:48:34. > :48:39.covered by insurance, so me and Amanda lost that money.
:48:39. > :48:44.By Dobyn there has been a spate of burglaries in the last few weeks.
:48:44. > :48:51.photography shop local to ask, are letting Agents, a couple of
:48:51. > :48:58.hairdressers, a couple of charity shops. None of us are safe. We
:48:58. > :49:02.would like to see a few more police officers, more CCTV.
:49:02. > :49:10.But latest figures show a decrease in crime of 6% across England and
:49:10. > :49:15.Wales. But for Forces show an increase - Northamptonshire, Essex,
:49:15. > :49:18.North Wales and Devon and Cornwall, which is up by 7%. Our region has
:49:19. > :49:24.by far the largest increase in crime.
:49:24. > :49:29.The figures in Devon and Cornwall show that burglary is up by 16%,
:49:29. > :49:34.robbery is up by 19%, and violent crime by 22%.
:49:34. > :49:39.Last year we had an increase. This year we have reverse that trend by
:49:39. > :49:43.working with our partners in health and education. My commitment is
:49:43. > :49:47.that we will continue to reduce crime of role. The Police
:49:47. > :49:51.Federation believes the increase in crime it is as a direct result of
:49:51. > :49:56.Government cuts. Hundreds of police officers marched on London earlier
:49:57. > :50:03.this year to protest. Devon & Cornwall Police plan to cut 700
:50:03. > :50:05.officers by 2015 as part of plans to save �51 million. In a recent
:50:05. > :50:10.report by Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary, they
:50:10. > :50:17.agreed that Devon and Cornwall is one of five forces particularly
:50:17. > :50:21.affected by police cuts, but whilst crime rose here, the other four all
:50:21. > :50:26.achieved cuts in crime, with the biggest decrease been seen in Brent
:50:26. > :50:30.-- Gwent. A police here failing? They have
:50:30. > :50:33.their fair share of challenges - the first is size. Devon and
:50:33. > :50:38.Cornwall makes up the biggest police force area in England and
:50:38. > :50:42.Wales. The second challenge is tourism, which swells the
:50:42. > :50:46.population. Then there is the on going pop -- problem of sufficient
:50:46. > :50:50.funding. Devon and Cornwall have faced
:50:50. > :50:54.severe cuts, and inevitably that has had an impact on front line
:50:54. > :50:59.policing more than they would probably want it to.
:50:59. > :51:02.The University of Exeter surveyed more than 2000 people. They ask if
:51:02. > :51:10.people would pay an extra �50 tax each year it bought more police on
:51:10. > :51:15.the streets. 42% of respondents in the South West were willing to pay
:51:15. > :51:20.�50 a year extra, compared to 29% were opposed.
:51:20. > :51:25.Marie is one of those who does not want to pay more. She once more
:51:25. > :51:30.police on the streets, but things she pays enough already. -- she
:51:30. > :51:35.once more police. I am joined by a criminologist at
:51:35. > :51:38.Exeter University. Jim Webster, the combination of
:51:38. > :51:42.these crime figures and this report from Her Majesty's Inspectorate of
:51:42. > :51:46.Constabulary does not reflect well on Devon & Cornwall Police.
:51:46. > :51:50.Police crime figures are always challenging. They are always prone
:51:50. > :51:59.to political interpretations. I would also like to say that the
:51:59. > :52:05.long-term trend for Devon and Cornwall has been down a... We have
:52:05. > :52:13.not got the official Office of National Statistics figures. Go I'm
:52:13. > :52:18.going up at any problem -- time is a problem. But you get larger
:52:18. > :52:22.percentage swings in Devon and Cornwall. Bernice Crime stats are
:52:22. > :52:27.Always Ready difficult league -- easily misinterpreted. But the
:52:27. > :52:32.other forces identified by the Her Majesty's Inspectorate of
:52:32. > :52:38.Constabulary have all achieved reductions. Clent has the biggest
:52:38. > :52:42.reduction in the country. -- Gwent. A I know from my time in the force,
:52:42. > :52:50.you can look at all sorts of statistics to prove all kinds of
:52:50. > :52:56.all arguments. You are the expert on this. No Biddy is the expert!
:52:56. > :53:00.But how do we make some sense of it? Jin is right, if you look at
:53:00. > :53:07.the figures overall, Devon and Cornwall has a low base, there has
:53:07. > :53:13.been a decline in crime stats. Week are having a serious blip. More
:53:13. > :53:19.idea think that is happening? Other authorities with severe police cuts
:53:19. > :53:23.have reduced crime. It could quite easily be that we have been hit by
:53:23. > :53:27.travelling criminals. There has been Crime tourism in the way that
:53:28. > :53:32.there is ordinary tourism. The manpower figures do not allow for
:53:32. > :53:37.that sort of thing when it hits you. There have been a burglary and
:53:37. > :53:43.pickpocketing gangs moving across the South and they have gone back
:53:43. > :53:48.out of the country, coming from France and Belgium for example.
:53:48. > :53:53.Research will tell us what happened about ten years too late... We will
:53:53. > :53:57.come back to both of you long before that, but now we talk to the
:53:57. > :54:04.candidates. We asked them whether Devon and Cornwall should have more
:54:04. > :54:08.frontline officers and if so how they would provide them.
:54:08. > :54:15.Devon and Cornwall force needs a more visible policing presence. I
:54:15. > :54:21.would for Chris -- focus on PCS Os. They are friendly, and get to know
:54:21. > :54:24.the people in the streets. They would be my focus for recruitment.
:54:24. > :54:30.Police officers in the street have two effects, they reassure the
:54:30. > :54:34.public and they did their criminals. I have seen criminals and talked to
:54:34. > :54:39.them, and visible patrols are definitely a deterrent to those
:54:39. > :54:44.criminals. Rover gets this job as PCC has to put that down as and one
:54:44. > :54:50.of his or her priorities in insuring that we see more police
:54:50. > :54:54.constables, PCSO has and specials out on the streets. Go in an ideal
:54:54. > :55:00.world we would like more frontline police officers, but we know these
:55:00. > :55:05.are challenging times. 81% of the budget is on staffing at the moment,
:55:05. > :55:09.and we know that the Government is cutting 20% of that. So that is
:55:09. > :55:13.going to be difficult. We are going to have to be much more creative
:55:13. > :55:20.about how we release police officers so that they can patrol on
:55:20. > :55:24.the front line. We have to relax the cuts we are currently suffering.
:55:24. > :55:31.When I was chairman of the police authority are increased the number
:55:31. > :55:35.of officers, we did that with good evidence to support that. We cannot
:55:35. > :55:39.allow the slide to go all the way back, and if elected my first
:55:39. > :55:43.priority will be to stop the slide and see how we can sustainably
:55:43. > :55:48.resource increasing police officer numbers again. We have to make
:55:48. > :55:53.better use of the ones that we have got, and cut down bureaucracy and
:55:53. > :55:58.get officers back on the beat. Have independent, dedicated teams doing
:55:59. > :56:02.the interviewing. Encourage Specials and neighbourhood watch.
:56:02. > :56:07.The public want to get involved, and that is a way of helping them
:56:07. > :56:12.do it. The policy of the UK Independence Party is to get as
:56:12. > :56:15.many frontline police as possible working around Devon and Cornwall.
:56:16. > :56:20.The question we have to face up with his these cuts that are
:56:20. > :56:25.looming. Winner to be realistic and realise that there may well be cuts
:56:25. > :56:30.and they may affect front line policing, no matter how much any of
:56:30. > :56:36.us want to stop it. We want more frontline officers, but we have to
:56:36. > :56:40.be realistic, we have to work with the cuts. We need to argue for a
:56:40. > :56:45.better slice of the funding cake for Devon and Cornwall, and also of
:56:45. > :56:49.said police cuts through more Special Constables, more police
:56:49. > :56:54.volunteering, to get more police out on the streets. Devon &
:56:54. > :56:58.Cornwall Police need more frontline officers. When I was a member of
:56:58. > :57:02.the police authority, I voted for an increase in funding to allow the
:57:03. > :57:07.number of officers to increase to 3,500. I think that is a better
:57:07. > :57:12.figure. I regret the fact that the Government is now making cuts, and
:57:12. > :57:18.I would want to redress the imbalance in the number of officers.
:57:18. > :57:22.We need more officers in the front line. We have 3,300 presently
:57:23. > :57:27.holding warrant cards. Too many are used doing secondary tasks, and red
:57:27. > :57:34.tape is keeping them in the offices. But the stations are accessed by
:57:34. > :57:41.appointment only. We need to get these officers in a frontline role,
:57:41. > :57:45.interacting with the community they serve. I prefer that term local
:57:45. > :57:50.policing, rather than front line policing. We cannot cut local
:57:50. > :57:55.policing, we have to find ways and means of maintaining that. We can
:57:55. > :58:00.do that for the next two years. Some of the cuts so far have been
:58:00. > :58:05.quite draconian. Thereafter, if the Government persists in its
:58:05. > :58:11.disgraceful behaviour, we are falling off a cliff. We have to
:58:11. > :58:18.hold on to our front line policing. How much of this is bound to
:58:18. > :58:24.frontline officers? We are getting obsessed with it. The acting chief
:58:25. > :58:31.put his finger on what is required, and I am disappointed not to have
:58:31. > :58:35.heard the candidates' strategy for working with education, health,
:58:35. > :58:42.social workers, probation. The police cannot cope on their own,
:58:42. > :58:47.and that is the criticism that be Inspectorate of Constabulary made
:58:47. > :58:53.of the Devon and Cornwall -- Devon and Cornwall strategy -- Devon and
:58:53. > :58:58.Cornwall strategy. Officers on the beat, the research shows that
:58:58. > :59:04.officers have a slight effect on deterring crime, but there is no
:59:04. > :59:08.difference between one officers on the beat and two of three more. The
:59:08. > :59:16.impact is slight and it does not grow with the number of officers.
:59:16. > :59:22.him, what about the idea of moving the balance between police officers
:59:22. > :59:27.and community support officers? candidates' use of valid and
:59:28. > :59:35.interesting, but police is for more than patrolling. We also want to
:59:35. > :59:44.have detectives investigating rape, murder, have paedophiles so veiled
:59:44. > :59:48.and arrested. -- serve failed. I would hope that when the candidates
:59:48. > :59:53.or in post, after a year or two of learning the role, they have a more
:59:53. > :59:59.visionary approach to what they can do. Maybe looking at structures, a
:59:59. > :00:04.amalgamations, just thinking about more police on the streets will not
:00:04. > :00:11.make savings or solve crime. There is more candidate information