:01:25. > :01:28.And in the South West: A government promise to tackle the crisis in
:01:28. > :01:38.care for the elderly. But the Prime Minister still isn't saying exactly
:01:38. > :01:38.
:01:38. > :44:08.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2549 seconds
:44:08. > :44:11.Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics in the South West.
:44:11. > :44:14.And for I am joined by Neil Parish, the Conservative MP for Tiverton
:44:14. > :44:16.and Honiton and Jude Robinson, who sits in solitary splendour as
:44:16. > :44:26.Cornwall's only Labour councillor. Until this year's elections at
:44:26. > :44:28.
:44:28. > :44:31.least. Welcome back to both of you. This week the Planning Minister
:44:31. > :44:34.admitted he is happy to bribe councils to build houses on
:44:34. > :44:37.greenfield sites. And if it turns out they are above bribery, it is
:44:38. > :44:40.clear he is happy to force them. they build more houses, which will
:44:40. > :44:45.help their children have somewhere to grow up, they will get some
:44:45. > :44:53.money that they can then spend on something for the community. If
:44:53. > :44:58.they get a few hundred �1,000, they can open up local parks and open up
:44:58. > :45:06.a community park. If you get them at an incentive, they are more
:45:06. > :45:12.likely to approve more development. The minister is being called the
:45:12. > :45:17.terror of Middle England. What do you make of this? We have to give
:45:17. > :45:22.people a choice. If we can encourage them to take some
:45:22. > :45:25.development in the little villages where some properties would be most
:45:25. > :45:31.acceptable, the idea is to encourage them to go for it. We
:45:31. > :45:41.have got people always objecting at the moment. By at the government
:45:41. > :45:42.
:45:42. > :45:46.will take away the local discretion. But the whole idea is to... It is
:45:46. > :45:51.better off being a straight forward and going for something that you
:45:51. > :45:55.want to see happen rather than force something. But when the
:45:55. > :45:58.Conservatives were in opposition, he went on about how Labour were
:45:58. > :46:04.forcing houses on people and you are essentially doing the same
:46:04. > :46:10.thing. If the local authorities do not come up with a number you think
:46:10. > :46:13.is a bright... I still think there are villages that could do with
:46:13. > :46:18.some houses and if we can get people to agree with them it would
:46:18. > :46:22.be much better if they go for it. We have to give people incentives.
:46:22. > :46:29.People always say they want affordable homes until we want to
:46:29. > :46:37.put them in a particular spot. They have to be given encouragement.
:46:37. > :46:44.Jude, are you a plodding them for getting on with what you did not?
:46:44. > :46:51.You were effectively doing this with your strategies. We asked the
:46:51. > :46:55.Government to come up with target areas. What we have not done is
:46:55. > :47:01.what the Conservative government is doing, giving the power to
:47:01. > :47:09.developers to say we're the Houses will go, by -- to say where the
:47:09. > :47:14.houses will go, by developing a framework. There is a great unease
:47:14. > :47:19.about the the countryside as people see it. The people who really need
:47:19. > :47:24.the houses are not the people who are getting them. How do you make
:47:24. > :47:27.houses really affordable? We keep going around endless loop of
:47:27. > :47:34.affordable housing, and actually, people who really need housing
:47:34. > :47:40.cannot afford it at all. Affordable homes have to be properties to rent
:47:40. > :47:44.more than to buy, because they are only affordable once. I think we
:47:44. > :47:50.can have these schemes and I am working on that. We will have to
:47:50. > :47:54.leave that for now. For years, governments have been saying that
:47:54. > :47:58.something must be done to help the elderly pay for long-term care, and
:47:58. > :48:03.on Monday, David Cameron said it again, to the December event of
:48:03. > :48:08.those who had he would say how and when he might actually tackle the
:48:08. > :48:15.problem. -- to the disappointment. No one knows what had they will be
:48:15. > :48:18.dealt when they reach old age. These people live in shared housing.
:48:18. > :48:23.84-year-old Barbara still lives independently, but she is worried
:48:23. > :48:28.about the financial impact if she needs to go into care. Light most
:48:28. > :48:32.people, we have worked -- like most people, we have worked very hard
:48:32. > :48:37.for our property, and to relinquish the whole of that property for my
:48:37. > :48:44.care, when other people who have not worked and have not contributed
:48:44. > :48:52.at all to society, I do not feel that we should be penalised for
:48:52. > :48:57.working. That is what we feel, we are being penalised. Barbara's is
:48:57. > :49:02.not a new problem. 16 years ago, the new Prime Minister set out his
:49:02. > :49:06.vision for children of the future. I do not want them brought up in a
:49:06. > :49:13.country with the only way they can get long-term care is to sell their
:49:13. > :49:17.homes. But the nettle has still not been grasped. The Conservative
:49:17. > :49:26.government asked for some answers, but hope for detailed commitment
:49:26. > :49:30.from the Prime Minister were dashed this week. We were certainly hoping
:49:30. > :49:40.for more detail this week, so we are a disappointment that the
:49:40. > :49:41.
:49:41. > :49:48.Government did not choose to set out... A set out some things are
:49:48. > :49:52.but we wanted to see detail at this stage. Currently, an elderly person
:49:52. > :49:55.who has �21,000 in assets, the council will pay for their care.
:49:55. > :50:01.More than a quarter of the people who are over 65 are expected to
:50:01. > :50:07.spend more than �50,000 on care. A report has said that the current
:50:07. > :50:12.system is confusing, unfair and unsustainable. It suggests setting
:50:12. > :50:20.a carer bill limit at under �35,000, and recommends that the asset
:50:20. > :50:26.threshold is raised to one added �1,000. This comes with an
:50:26. > :50:34.estimated �1.7 billion price tag. - - raised to �100,000. Social care
:50:34. > :50:41.is not free. It is something that is means tested in a very mean way.
:50:41. > :50:46.We need to find a way of assuring people. There were some proposals,
:50:46. > :50:50.but we have to find a way of paying for them. That is why I think the
:50:50. > :50:53.winter fuel allowance is the right candidate. It has been rumoured
:50:53. > :50:59.that the Treasury is toying with setting the maximum amount that
:51:00. > :51:04.someone can pay for care at �70,000, not including accommodation costs.
:51:05. > :51:09.Some analysts say that it is hardly worth doing. This man found that a
:51:09. > :51:13.string of care homes and says that waiting around is not an option.
:51:13. > :51:21.The country has got to find a way of delivering more money into the
:51:21. > :51:25.sector. Some of it will come from products that the financial
:51:25. > :51:31.authorities will provide. But whatever happens, we need more.
:51:31. > :51:37.More than one in five people in the South West is over 65 and that
:51:37. > :51:44.figure is rising. For now, the portion of assets the government is
:51:44. > :51:49.prepared to protect is unclear. Was it right to say that the battle has
:51:49. > :51:54.not been grasped? We know everybody thinks something needs to be done.
:51:54. > :51:58.The it is affordability of the whole thing, that of the argument.
:51:58. > :52:05.I think that people who have worked hard to keep their homes, I think
:52:05. > :52:09.what we have got to do, we are putting forward for... By 2015
:52:09. > :52:19.people should not be able -- should not have to sell their homes in
:52:19. > :52:23.their lifetime. �7,000 has been rumoured. Whichever figure --
:52:23. > :52:29.�70,000 has been rumoured. Whichever figure you plug out of
:52:29. > :52:34.the air, it has got to help. People want their pension increases and
:52:34. > :52:40.winter fuel allowance. There has got to be a balance. In terms of
:52:40. > :52:48.the cap, the report was saying �35,000. The Government is talking
:52:48. > :52:56.about �75,000. That figure of �75,000 seems to be in the equation
:52:56. > :53:01.at the moment. But who knows? In the next spending round, we will
:53:01. > :53:05.actually look at the cost of all of this. We still have a large deficit
:53:05. > :53:12.to get on top of that we inherited from the last government and we
:53:12. > :53:20.cannot just increase it to cover the cost. Jude, Labour has been
:53:20. > :53:28.very critical of putting this off yet again. But you are not coming
:53:28. > :53:32.up with a solid commitment yourself. Actually, the Labour government did
:53:32. > :53:38.tackle some of the big issues, and the idea that people still have to
:53:38. > :53:42.sell their houses to pay for care is just wrong. Tony Blair said that
:53:42. > :53:47.a long time ago. That was sorted. People do not have to sell their
:53:47. > :53:51.houses. They can defer payment until after they die at the moment.
:53:51. > :53:55.That is nothing new. Before the last election, the Labour
:53:55. > :54:04.government did offer cross-party talks to but Liberal Democrats and
:54:04. > :54:08.Conservatives on how to Sir -- sort that out. Do you can -- you could
:54:08. > :54:14.say that the report has brought forward some brilliant ideas, but
:54:14. > :54:20.none of you want to commit. We saw what happened and the last election.
:54:20. > :54:27.There are they have to be cross party? -- in the last election.
:54:27. > :54:33.Does it have to be cross party? have to get through the period...
:54:33. > :54:41.That was a strong economy. That was a time when the money was there. We
:54:41. > :54:45.have got to find a solution. The situation is much more difficult.
:54:45. > :54:51.We agree on cross-party support, but if Labour wants to come forward
:54:51. > :54:57.with an idea, let us see it. We are not getting any policy from Labour.
:54:57. > :55:07.We are getting a lot of criticism but no real policy. Whether he
:55:07. > :55:10.
:55:11. > :55:14.speaks for David Cameron and Nick Clegg, I do not know! Probably not.
:55:14. > :55:16.Bobby -- probably not. This week the government announced
:55:16. > :55:19.a new pub ombudsman to police the relationship between pub companies
:55:19. > :55:22.and their tenants. MPs of all parties think tenants are currently
:55:22. > :55:24.getting a raw deal. The mood has pleased almost everybody, except
:55:24. > :55:27.the pub companies themselves. And Labour thinks the government needs
:55:27. > :55:31.to go much further. Around half of all pubs in the UK
:55:31. > :55:36.are owned by pub companies, large companies who leased pubs out to
:55:36. > :55:40.tenants to run as a business. Often, these landlords are contractually
:55:40. > :55:45.obliged to buy beer from that company and not from the open
:55:45. > :55:52.market. Campaigners say that this makes it extremely difficult for
:55:52. > :55:56.mallards. -- landlords. Last year, I was doing the cooking and the
:55:56. > :56:00.shopping and filling in the bar shifts whenever I could, but really
:56:00. > :56:05.enjoying it. Add some point, you have to realise that you cannot
:56:05. > :56:11.enjoy something that is not giving you a return. Until November,
:56:11. > :56:20.Russell ran this pub in Cornwall. In the 10 years he was here, he
:56:20. > :56:26.invested �70,000 of his end money. But the owners, it Punch Taverns, a
:56:26. > :56:31.make it difficult for him. The was paying nearly twice the price -- I
:56:31. > :56:41.was paying nearly twice the price for my stock from British Beer and
:56:41. > :56:45.
:56:45. > :56:54.Pub Association. -- from British Beer and Pub Association. -- from
:56:54. > :57:02.Punch Taverns. A new statutory code to regulate the relationship
:57:02. > :57:06.between public and Lloyds and publicans... It is hard to see how
:57:06. > :57:12.you can ensure a change. It is hard to ensure that their Lloyd's will
:57:12. > :57:17.be better off. The spirit of the Government's intentions... There
:57:17. > :57:27.has to be eight option for the tenants, because, as I have said
:57:27. > :57:30.
:57:30. > :57:37.earlier, the Ian Lloyd are taking - - the landlords er taking...
:57:37. > :57:41.think many will be bludgeoned by the pub companies into taking this
:57:41. > :57:46.option, so I think that the default should be that there is no tie
:57:46. > :57:51.unless they are opting for a tie. But that idea now seems hopelessly
:57:51. > :57:55.optimistic, given that even the optional arrangement was rejected
:57:55. > :57:59.by coalition MPs earlier this week. Consultation on the Government's
:57:59. > :58:04.proposals will begin in the spring. Meanwhile, any new measures will be
:58:04. > :58:08.too late for Russell. He is still trying to pay off debts from his
:58:08. > :58:14.time in the pub trade. The pub company mentioned in that
:58:14. > :58:19.report, Punch Taverns, says it works hard to resolve -- resolve
:58:19. > :58:24.problems with tenets. They say that most of their tenants are satisfied
:58:24. > :58:28.and the relationship with them. We are joined now by the chief
:58:28. > :58:33.executive of the British Beer and Pub Association, Brigid Simmonds.
:58:33. > :58:37.Welcome to the programme. This double whammy of high rents and
:58:37. > :58:45.high beer prices looks as if it gives the punters be poisonous
:58:45. > :58:51.cocktail. If you bought your pub, you would be investing between
:58:51. > :58:54.�500,000 and �1 million. This tie offers a low-cost way to run your
:58:54. > :58:58.own business at a relatively young age, and the deal is that you pay
:58:58. > :59:03.less in what we would call variable prices for a beer, and you would
:59:03. > :59:07.pay more for a variable prices. You pay for the fixed rate prices,
:59:07. > :59:13.which is indeed for the rent, that is how it works, and we would be
:59:14. > :59:17.mad to get rid of that system. We would close more pubs. What about
:59:17. > :59:23.the tenants that we heard in the package? He claims that his beer
:59:23. > :59:27.costs twice as much as it would otherwise if he had a free house.
:59:27. > :59:35.We put this to Punch Taverns and they have not disputed any of this.
:59:35. > :59:40.By cannot commence -- I cannot comment on that aspect, but there
:59:40. > :59:44.are benefits that he would have received from that or any other pub
:59:44. > :59:53.company. They do a lot of marketing and there is work around insurance
:59:53. > :59:57.and there could be free wi-fi. We are closing more pubs without the
:59:57. > :00:03.tide and with the tide. If you are tied, the pub company is doing a
:00:03. > :00:07.lot. We have introduced a system that we thought would work. We have
:00:07. > :00:13.had about 10 complaints on rent and other issues this year, which will
:00:13. > :00:16.be resolved as a result. We would have reserved -- preferred to go
:00:16. > :00:23.one of the self regulation system. We believe that system is working.
:00:23. > :00:27.I am not convinced that a different system will be better for publicans.
:00:27. > :00:31.The argument from the pub houses is that they are helping people get
:00:31. > :00:39.into the industry and that they are self-regulated and that is working.
:00:39. > :00:43.They would say that, wouldn't they? The pubs are closing regularly. The
:00:43. > :00:49.profits are being squeezed, and I think we are seeing that in all
:00:49. > :00:56.walks of life, corporate companies, big companies have the company --
:00:56. > :01:02.power and the abuse it. You have got to give some kind of mechanism
:01:02. > :01:08.for the small business people to stand up to that. We have seen a 42
:01:08. > :01:15.% increase in beer taxation in the last four years. The Labour Party
:01:15. > :01:20.put in a beer duty escalator which goes up at 2% plus inflation.
:01:20. > :01:25.Publicans are suffering because of government policies on beer
:01:25. > :01:35.taxation. No other industry could cope with that sort of increase.
:01:35. > :01:36.
:01:36. > :01:46.have got a lot of sympathy! And I think Neil has as well. Let's take
:01:46. > :01:47.
:01:47. > :01:51.a local example. There is a wonderful local brewery. It is a --
:01:51. > :02:00.it has a short term a brewery ties that keeps it open. They were
:02:00. > :02:04.probably only making a penny a pint in terms of the Act will be a.
:02:04. > :02:08.in terms of the actual beer. They do provide tenants with good income.
:02:08. > :02:12.But we must have an adjudicator to make sure that the companies do not
:02:12. > :02:16.take most of the income. You have to expect that the companies will
:02:16. > :02:19.have some return on their investment, but you have to make
:02:19. > :02:23.sure that the tenant has a reasonable living. If the pub
:02:23. > :02:30.companies are acting properly, they have nothing to fear from an
:02:30. > :02:36.adjudicator. I think we do actually need an adjudicator are likely to
:02:36. > :02:43.in the food industry, to make sure that the -- adjudicator likely to
:02:43. > :02:53.in the food industry, to make sure everything is balanced. Some people
:02:53. > :02:56.are saying that the tide is the problem. Most pubs are owned by pub
:02:56. > :03:01.companies and the tie is still there. It is still there, but you
:03:02. > :03:07.can expect that the company, if they invest in pubs, they have got
:03:07. > :03:11.to have a return on their income. We have to make sure that they do
:03:12. > :03:18.not abuse their position. We have to bring in the right balance.
:03:18. > :03:24.they could lose the tie. If those companies are overcharging for the
:03:24. > :03:27.beer, the tenant should be able to make us -- make representation.
:03:27. > :03:33.Where are you going to get the investment in, especially when you
:03:33. > :03:39.have a good, a local brewery that can produce good beer and do a good
:03:39. > :03:45.job for the tenant? Let's not cast everybody with the same brush.
:03:45. > :03:50.have got to leave it there. Brigid Simmonds, thank you for leading --
:03:50. > :03:55.joining us. Now for the 62nd round up of the political week. -- now
:03:55. > :04:00.for the round-up of the political weight in 60 seconds. Fire service
:04:00. > :04:05.cuts for Devon and Somerset. So X machines will be missing that are
:04:05. > :04:12.available -- six machines that we have now will be missing in the
:04:12. > :04:19.future. And no improvement in the business plan, and no idea how to
:04:19. > :04:24.stop this from happening again. this is not acceptable for local
:04:24. > :04:31.passengers. It has not acceptable for the long-term interest of Our -
:04:31. > :04:35.- it is not acceptable for the long-term interest of our country.
:04:35. > :04:40.A lot of people could be walking around with Type 2 diabetes and not
:04:40. > :04:50.knowing it. Car parks are being used as cash cows in some regions.
:04:50. > :04:54.I do not think it is realistic. They were not interested in
:04:54. > :04:59.Cornwall when they earn -- when they were in government and they
:04:59. > :05:04.are not interested doubt that they are in opposition. -- and they are
:05:04. > :05:08.not interested doubt that they are in opposition. That is the seat
:05:08. > :05:12.that you fought at the last election. Have you been cut adrift
:05:12. > :05:17.by Labour high command? Absolut the knot. To say that the Labour
:05:17. > :05:24.government forgot about -- absolutely not. To say that the
:05:24. > :05:29.Labour government forgot about Cornwall... For 48 seats, I think,
:05:29. > :05:33.at the last election. The Liberal Democrats are trying to play a game
:05:33. > :05:39.of being in a coalition and supporting the Tories and try to be
:05:39. > :05:43.in opposition in Cornwall. I agree that the Liberal Democrats squeezed
:05:43. > :05:51.the vote by claiming to voters that they would keep the Conservatives
:05:51. > :05:56.out. I do not think people will fall for that twice. Neil, I will
:05:56. > :06:05.not allow you to speculate! There has not been much about the
:06:05. > :06:08.flooding problem in Exeter. We will have to deal with that. Getting the
:06:08. > :06:16.flooding right and getting the railway put right and long-term
:06:16. > :06:20.future is key. Asset in the House of Commons that the West Country
:06:20. > :06:24.does not -- I sat in the House of Commons that the West Country does
:06:24. > :06:28.not stop in Bristol. We are fighting for more because I believe
:06:28. > :06:34.we have got to have a good railway that comes through the West Country,