:01:16. > :01:20.In the South West: the issue dividing opinion in the
:01:20. > :01:30.Conservative Party. The coalition's plans for gay marriage are
:01:30. > :01:30.
:01:30. > :39:56.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2305 seconds
:39:56. > :39:58.upsetting one of the region's Hello, I'm Lucie Fisher. Coming up
:39:59. > :40:04.on the Sunday Politics and the South West, the issue dividing the
:40:04. > :40:10.Tories. Not Europe put gay marriage. One senior Conservative says David
:40:10. > :40:18.Cameron is alienating the grassroots -- but game marriage. I
:40:18. > :40:22.am joined by Marcus Wood from the Torbay Conservative Party and Luke
:40:22. > :40:26.Pollard. We stuck with horse burgers.
:40:26. > :40:29.Investigations are under way to find out how Paul Smith found its
:40:29. > :40:35.way into beefburgers in supermarkets -- we start with horse
:40:35. > :40:39.burgers. The Exeter MP was not convinced that this would lead to
:40:39. > :40:45.prosecutions. By Rhys is Secretary of State? Will these retailers be
:40:45. > :40:51.prosecuted? And that was it not for later removed responsibility from
:40:51. > :40:56.the independent Food Standards Authority to his department? Marcus,
:40:56. > :41:04.were you surprised that you could be eating horsemeat? I think
:41:04. > :41:07.everybody was. A catastrophic failure of control. The industry
:41:07. > :41:12.should have very strong protection against that kind of thing, and
:41:12. > :41:16.usually does. What about this point that Ben Bradshaw makes, certain
:41:16. > :41:23.elements of protection have been removed from the third standards
:41:23. > :41:26.agency, an independent consumer watchdog? It is his job to try to
:41:26. > :41:31.drag the Government down over anything the Government does run.
:41:31. > :41:34.It was any removed two years ago under the new government.
:41:34. > :41:37.retailers themselves have far more stringent controls than the
:41:37. > :41:41.Government have ever come up with. Normally they would protect
:41:41. > :41:44.themselves because they are the front line of risk and there will
:41:44. > :41:48.be prosecuted. It is a public relations disaster for any
:41:48. > :41:52.supermarket. I don't think the Government need to be doing things,
:41:52. > :42:01.I think the supermarket should be having inquiries and change their
:42:01. > :42:08.systems. Luke, David Cameron thinks it will be OK, will it be OK?
:42:08. > :42:12.if supermarkets have a decent system to ensure that if it's as
:42:12. > :42:16.beefburgers on the package, it is beef. Moving from an independent
:42:16. > :42:22.Food Standards Agency to allow it to be closer to the industry and to
:42:22. > :42:25.political interference, I think it is not acceptable and it is right
:42:25. > :42:31.that Benn picked this up and says is this the right system to protect
:42:31. > :42:35.the Consumers', but they are getting beef and not horse? Were
:42:35. > :42:40.must move on. Several councils in the region are beginning to
:42:40. > :42:44.announce plans to put up council tax. It will not please Eric
:42:44. > :42:47.Pickles. He has once again urged councils to go for a freeze but the
:42:47. > :42:53.Conservative leader of Cornwall Council wants to increase the tax
:42:53. > :42:57.by nearly 2%, a rise of almost 50 p per week.
:42:57. > :43:01.We'll be hearing from him in a war moment but first this report from
:43:01. > :43:06.Jenny Kumah. Councils are under extraordinary
:43:06. > :43:09.financial pressure. After recent flooding in Devon, the county
:43:09. > :43:15.council leaders have appealed for more government cash to help fund
:43:15. > :43:21.repairs. November broke records of storms. And December broke
:43:21. > :43:23.November's records. We have had a really bad hit. Torbay's
:43:23. > :43:26.Conservative mayor says he has written to ministers to complain
:43:26. > :43:32.about the amount of money they have got to spend next year. The
:43:32. > :43:36.authority is looking at budget cuts of �10 million. Around 900 Tom
:43:36. > :43:41.noble people could lose their free safety alarms. A controversial cut
:43:41. > :43:45.back if it goes ahead. In some areas, councillors are making the
:43:45. > :43:49.bold move of putting up council tax to help pay for services. Plymouth
:43:49. > :43:55.residents could see a 2% rise, the maximum councillors can put it up
:43:55. > :44:00.by without asking local people in a special vote. And the next
:44:00. > :44:04.elections in Plymouth will not be held until May, 2014. In just a few
:44:04. > :44:08.months' time, councillors here at Devon County Council will be facing
:44:08. > :44:14.the electorate. I have come to find out from the leader just how likely
:44:14. > :44:18.it is people put up council tax just before an election.
:44:18. > :44:25.starting early in 2009, we have been able to put in a council tax
:44:25. > :44:29.freeze and we would definitely be putting it as far as I am concerned.
:44:29. > :44:34.Because we have the capacity to do it. We have restructured. That has
:44:34. > :44:37.so does lots of money. Far too many of our local authority neighbours
:44:37. > :44:42.did not start as early as we did and therefore they have not got the
:44:42. > :44:45.capacity we have. Cross the border in Cornwall, elections are looming
:44:46. > :44:52.here as well but with �30 million of savings needed, councillors are
:44:52. > :44:57.not afraid to ask voters for more money. The Conservative-Independent
:44:57. > :45:01.coalition cabinet want a 1.97 % council tax increase and if
:45:01. > :45:06.approved by the council, that is an extra 47p per week for the average
:45:06. > :45:11.home. Labour-led Exeter City Council is looking to raise council
:45:12. > :45:16.tax by a whopping 4%. Exeter is one of seven south-west district that
:45:16. > :45:21.is being given special dispensation to raise council tax above 2%
:45:21. > :45:26.without a referendum. Putting the Labour leader in an unusual
:45:26. > :45:31.position of thanking the Conservative minister. I am glad
:45:31. > :45:41.the Government have given us an opportunity to look after low
:45:41. > :45:42.
:45:42. > :45:46.costing councils. I hope they do it again. In cash-strapped West Devon,
:45:46. > :45:51.the Conservative leader is not so pleased with the Government.
:45:51. > :45:56.Effectively we lost something like �640,000 and you set that against
:45:56. > :46:00.our net budget of 7.5 million, that is quite a major impact whereas we
:46:00. > :46:05.were expecting to get considerably more this year. West Devon's leader
:46:05. > :46:08.has not yet said whether tax will go up here but it was one of two
:46:08. > :46:14.south-west councils that put it up last year. And he warns that some
:46:14. > :46:18.services could be cut back if they do not do it again.
:46:18. > :46:23.We are joined from Truro now by the Conservative leader of Cornwall
:46:23. > :46:30.Council, Jim Currie. Welcome. Can you confirm for us that Cornwall
:46:30. > :46:35.Council is proposing to put up council tax? Yes, that is a
:46:35. > :46:39.recommendation from the Cabinet at the moment and obviously it has a
:46:39. > :46:46.complete process yet to go through. What is your personal position on
:46:46. > :46:49.it? I am proposing to put it up. Why is that? Because you're going
:46:49. > :46:58.against Conservative Party policy here. I knew a Conservative
:46:58. > :47:04.yourself. Yes, I am and against high council tax as well. We find
:47:04. > :47:11.ourselves in the position. We went very early if not the earliest, to
:47:11. > :47:20.achieve the position we are in and we put forward a balanced budget
:47:20. > :47:27.which, if it goes as the Cabinet proposes it will not, this year,
:47:27. > :47:29.involve cuts in services. leader of Devon council, we heard
:47:29. > :47:33.in the peace there, saying that Cornwall has not been careful
:47:33. > :47:38.enough with its money. He believes a Devon has been far more careful
:47:38. > :47:43.and as a result does not have to put up council tax. He is taking a
:47:43. > :47:51.gamble with that. I would not take that gamble. The risks we have with
:47:51. > :47:56.our budget are quite off the scale at the moment and I consider them
:47:56. > :48:02.to be unacceptable. At the end of the two years for which we have
:48:03. > :48:07.balanced the budget, we have a starting point of the deficit of
:48:07. > :48:12.�47 million, not of our making. will interrupt there. Just to bring
:48:12. > :48:17.in Marcus to the debate. Is Jim Currie correct, that he cannot make
:48:17. > :48:21.cuts to council tax, you must increase it? I cannot speak for him,
:48:21. > :48:27.he has been elected to do what he must do. And I feel strongly that
:48:27. > :48:31.when you have been saying for about four years that there will be
:48:31. > :48:36.painful choices to make and we have to make the painful decisions as
:48:36. > :48:40.elected politicians, I think it is frustrating when people then do not
:48:40. > :48:44.make those painful decisions. You cannot work with less money without
:48:44. > :48:49.making some cuts and a lot of councils - and I cannot speak for
:48:49. > :48:53.Cornwall - have put that off. You are then asking the public to pay
:48:53. > :48:58.and when you stood to be elected on a particular issue and say you will
:48:58. > :49:02.not put taxes up. What things can be cut then? In Torbay, your area,
:49:02. > :49:11.they are looking at cutting back on things like lifelines for bomb of
:49:11. > :49:16.all people, 900 of them. Is that a good cat -- for vulnerable people,
:49:16. > :49:22.a good cut? No cuts are good, you have to make difficult decisions.
:49:22. > :49:28.Is that something you would recommend for Jim Currie? Putting
:49:28. > :49:32.the tax up is always the easy option, and ask the public to pay
:49:32. > :49:36.more but the fact is the public have not got money to pay because
:49:36. > :49:40.they are being stretched by everything going up. Jim, you are
:49:40. > :49:43.taking the easy option here and Marcus is correct that in your
:49:43. > :49:46.particular area, a St Ives constituency has got the lowest
:49:46. > :49:52.wages per week in the whole of the country. Is it fair for them to
:49:52. > :49:59.find more money for council tax? do not see why a local government
:49:59. > :50:04.should be singled out for this particular kind of treatment. There
:50:04. > :50:13.are many aspects of society at the moment where increases are being
:50:13. > :50:19.allowed but in our case, despite the fact that the first year we
:50:19. > :50:24.saved �86 million from our budget, this year, 41 million, next year,
:50:24. > :50:29.30 million in this Budget. Actually it was 24 but we have been asked
:50:29. > :50:35.for more from central government in the meantime and by the end of the
:50:35. > :50:40.period, we will be in a position where we cannot cope. All right, so
:50:40. > :50:43.let's say to Luke, that Labour were too generous. The reason we are
:50:43. > :50:47.finding difficulty in making cuts the because there was too much
:50:47. > :50:52.money awarded to local councils under Labour. I do not think that
:50:52. > :50:55.is the case. There are vital public services, perhaps in the lifelines
:50:55. > :51:00.which these old people have and that is one example of many
:51:00. > :51:04.services that local government provide an cuts that the Tory lead
:51:04. > :51:07.government of pushing down on local government across the West Country
:51:07. > :51:11.means that you are now having to take unpleasant choices between
:51:11. > :51:17.cutting services for the most ball noble in society or putting council
:51:17. > :51:23.tax up. What would you stand by? Labour-led councils will put
:51:23. > :51:27.council tax up, or are proposing to. You need to balance at how
:51:27. > :51:31.efficiently you can deliver services and how efficiency savings
:51:31. > :51:35.are being made for vital public services for adults social care,
:51:35. > :51:42.for filling in port holes, for getting people back into work and
:51:42. > :51:44.you need to have a choice -- into potholes. They are deciding to cut
:51:44. > :51:49.hard on local financing than perhaps they are choosing, they are
:51:49. > :51:55.choosing to make sure the vulnerable suffer the worst...
:51:55. > :51:58.will have to stop you there. We will move on. Campaigners against
:51:58. > :52:02.gay marriage have been hitting the streets of Cornwall asking people
:52:02. > :52:06.to write to MPs and targeting the Tories in particular and perhaps
:52:06. > :52:12.with good reason, Giles Chichester was one of several Conservatives in
:52:12. > :52:14.the region who do not like plans for equal marriage and he says
:52:14. > :52:18.David Cameron is alienating the grass roots.
:52:18. > :52:22.Last weekend, hundreds of thousands of people from across France
:52:22. > :52:26.rallied in Paris against their Government's plans to legalise
:52:26. > :52:29.same-sex marriage. Meanwhile in Cornwall, the Coalition for
:52:29. > :52:34.Marriage has been leafleting people about Downing Street's plans to do
:52:34. > :52:38.something similar. The Government wants to rewrite the meaning of
:52:38. > :52:42.marriage but to change the definition of an institution around
:52:42. > :52:47.for thousands of years certainly is not easy and it is splitting the
:52:47. > :52:52.views of the general public. Even politicians themselves. I am
:52:52. > :52:58.disappointed that David Cameron - and I think it is personal - has
:52:58. > :53:07.chosen to take this initiative. It was not in the manifesto, there is
:53:07. > :53:11.no great call for it. I support equal rights for gay couples, that
:53:11. > :53:15.has been legislated against. It is not broke, why fix it? Thousands of
:53:15. > :53:18.signatures against a proposed redefinition was taken to Downing
:53:18. > :53:22.Street and Giles Chichester says he has had a strong response from
:53:22. > :53:26.constituents and members of the party against David Cameron's
:53:26. > :53:31.proposals. A almost without exception, they say why is he doing
:53:31. > :53:36.it? There is no call for it. A has enough problems to tackle without a
:53:36. > :53:41.big one like this. This week, the Sunday Politics asked all 14
:53:41. > :53:45.Conservative MPs were they sit on gay marriage and only two were
:53:45. > :53:55.clear in their support for the plans. Five of them expressed
:53:55. > :53:59.strong views against the plan. The position of the remaining seven
:53:59. > :54:05.Conservative MPs remains unclear. The Coalition for marriages asking
:54:05. > :54:10.people in Cornwall's and stir -- Conservative constituencies to
:54:10. > :54:17.write to their MPs but Sarah Newton believes she is being
:54:17. > :54:22.misrepresented. The impression is giving that it is given a lot of my
:54:22. > :54:25.constituents that actually I am endorsing their campaign. The UK
:54:25. > :54:28.Independence Party is hoping to poach disillusioned Tory voters
:54:28. > :54:33.with its clear opposition to gay marriage. The issue is so important
:54:33. > :54:37.it is said to have cost the leader of its youth section his job after
:54:37. > :54:40.he spoke out in favour of gay marriage. At pushing for gay
:54:40. > :54:45.marriage which is something I am a big supporter of, it is one of the
:54:45. > :54:49.few things that I think this government is doing right. I think
:54:49. > :54:56.it is a good thing. I have no problem with him being a supporter
:54:56. > :55:01.of gay marriage but as a spokesman of the party, we did ask him to
:55:02. > :55:06.stay within representing party policy and on a number of issues,
:55:06. > :55:10.of which gay marriage was one, that wasn't happening. The Bishop of
:55:10. > :55:16.Exeter has been clear about his opposition to gay marriage.
:55:16. > :55:23.proposals as they stand have many unforeseen legal and constitutional
:55:23. > :55:27.consequences which the Government have not thought through. By hear
:55:27. > :55:34.more people saying slowdown -- Ali hear more people. We need to do
:55:34. > :55:36.more talking about what is involved -- I hear more people.
:55:36. > :55:45.David Cameron's as marriage should be and his decision open to
:55:45. > :55:48.everyone. This could be law by 2014. We are joined now by Dr Sharon
:55:48. > :55:51.James from the Coalition for Marriage from Truro. Welcome to the
:55:51. > :55:55.programme. You are against plans to allow gay marriage, can you tell us
:55:55. > :55:59.why? The Coalition for Marriage is representing people up and down the
:55:59. > :56:02.country, people of faith and no faith to believe this government
:56:02. > :56:06.did not create marriage, it goes back to the beginning of recorded
:56:06. > :56:11.history, it is a natural institution between a man and a
:56:11. > :56:17.woman. The great majority of the UK population are very tolerant, and
:56:17. > :56:21.we hear from many gay and lesbian people who are happy with civil
:56:22. > :56:29.partnerships but we do not believe there should be done over the heads
:56:29. > :56:34.of millions of married people. has the problem not been removed
:56:34. > :56:40.for you? One of the top human rights lawyers in the country has
:56:40. > :56:46.delivered an opinion that the quadruple loch is eminently
:56:46. > :56:50.challengeable say all of these so- called protections are fairly
:56:50. > :56:55.meaningless. The people we represent are not so much worried
:56:55. > :56:59.about the rights of a few individual ministers, what our
:56:59. > :57:03.supporters worry about is the civic liberties of ordinary people,
:57:03. > :57:07.teachers, parents, foster-parents, public sector workers who are
:57:07. > :57:13.already finding that it is threatened in an increasingly
:57:13. > :57:17.hostile climate to those who believe in traditional marriage.
:57:17. > :57:20.You are targeting Conservatives in Cornwall, what do you want from
:57:20. > :57:24.them? We want every MP to listen to the views of their constituents and
:57:24. > :57:27.we are finding when people find out about this, they have not been
:57:27. > :57:32.properly informed but when they do find out about these plans, they
:57:32. > :57:37.are unhappy and they have the right to contact their MP and we are
:57:37. > :57:43.hearing from MPs say they have got more post on this issue, against a
:57:43. > :57:50.married, than on any other issue. Let's move to Marcus. You support
:57:50. > :57:55.gay marriage and in our survey, only two Conservative MPs in the
:57:55. > :58:04.region of 14 actually support it and five actively opposed to it. Is
:58:04. > :58:07.it likely to become the reality? can't answer, I do not know. One of
:58:07. > :58:12.the issues is that a lot of Conservative members, I think Giles
:58:12. > :58:19.Chichester alluded to this, they are in favour of that woman in
:58:19. > :58:27.terms of proposing this but -- opposing this but the vast majority
:58:27. > :58:31.supported. You cannot do what your own party wants a loan. -- once on
:58:31. > :58:34.its own. It is just inevitable that gay marriage will come up, I cannot
:58:35. > :58:39.see why you would say one is all right and the other isn't. Be is
:58:39. > :58:42.now the right time to be introducing these measures? Is any
:58:43. > :58:46.time the right time to introduce controversial measures. You can
:58:46. > :58:50.feel passionate about it but for the vast majority of the public, I
:58:50. > :58:58.think we have crossed a threshold one we had the issue about civil
:58:58. > :59:03.partnerships. A Luke, why did Labour not introduce gay marriage,
:59:03. > :59:07.and this half measure of civil partnerships? Equalisation of the
:59:07. > :59:10.age of consent, ability to adopt, huge steps forward in the quality.
:59:10. > :59:14.We believe more people should get married and extending it to
:59:14. > :59:18.everybody, regardless of sexuality, will only increase the happiness of
:59:18. > :59:22.everyone. These proposals do not take anything away from anybody who
:59:22. > :59:25.is already married, it extends the right to marry and to be in a
:59:25. > :59:31.marriage to anyone in a country and that surely has to be a good thing.
:59:31. > :59:35.It is very rare that a government can extend happiness. Sharon, it
:59:35. > :59:38.has to be a good thing, what do you say to them? I would say that this
:59:38. > :59:42.will take away the freedom from those vast numbers of the British
:59:42. > :59:47.public who do not believe that marriage is the same as same-sex
:59:47. > :59:50.union. If people are already under threat of losing their jobs if they
:59:51. > :59:54.disagree with gay marriage, one of the situation be of gay marriage is
:59:54. > :59:57.introduced? I would say again that people on both sides of the
:59:58. > :00:01.argument asking the Government to pause and consider what could well
:00:01. > :00:07.be the unintended consequences. Senior politicians on both sides
:00:07. > :00:12.saying this policy has not been properly thought through. Dr Sharon
:00:12. > :00:22.James, thank you for joining us. Our round-up of the political week
:00:22. > :00:25.
:00:25. > :00:32.A Devon has lost a landmark legal battle to wear her cross at work.
:00:32. > :00:40.It reminded the Prime Minister of the promised to change the law.
:00:40. > :00:43.have to stand up and I do regret saying that I feel my career of 30
:00:43. > :00:47.years, it is such a sad loss. Cameron was asked what he was doing
:00:47. > :00:51.to stop this happening again. will do everything we can to make
:00:51. > :00:55.sure these important services are maintained even when they are
:00:55. > :01:02.challenged by floods like the ones last year. Elected police
:01:02. > :01:05.commissioner elected his first Chief Constable. A Devon and
:01:05. > :01:09.Cornwall constituency looks even less likely after the Lord's voted
:01:09. > :01:13.to delay boundary changes. And Torbay council proposed cuts to
:01:13. > :01:17.which beach services which could mean they lose their Blue Flag
:01:17. > :01:27.status. Why have we have raised this sooner or so that we can see
:01:27. > :01:29.
:01:30. > :01:34.That is our round-up. Luke, cuts to beach services which could see Blue
:01:34. > :01:42.Flag status being lost, a good way to save money when our industry is
:01:42. > :01:48.really tourism-based? We are losing so much money in our water bills in
:01:48. > :01:55.cleaning up, to achieve those amazing beaches, it would be a real
:01:55. > :01:59.shame to see the protected status being lost. We must make sure they
:01:59. > :02:02.are clean. I think this comes back to the conversation we were having
:02:02. > :02:07.earlier, when you have got a limited resource, you must make
:02:07. > :02:12.some difficult decisions. I do not envy the councils making these
:02:12. > :02:16.decisions. The same council in Torbay spent �20,000 on a palm tree
:02:16. > :02:20.in the middle of a roundabout. is the sort of decision making that
:02:20. > :02:23.has to be defended and a think it is hard to do that but you have to
:02:23. > :02:28.get the balance right and I think they are trying hard to do that.
:02:28. > :02:35.You are still trying to defend the council here! It seems preposterous.