:01:29. > :01:39.In the South West: The pro-hunting MPs who are say the at SPCA has
:01:39. > :01:44.
:01:44. > :01:50.become too political. $:/STARTFEED. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. In
:01:51. > :02:00.the South West: The pro-hunting MPs who say the RSPCA has become too
:02:01. > :02:01.
:02:01. > :42:00.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2399 seconds
:42:00. > :42:06.$:/STARTFEED. Hello, I'm Lucie Fisher, coming up on the Sunday
:42:06. > :42:09.Politics in the south-west: the cost of childcare and the warning
:42:09. > :42:13.government plans to make it more affordable could be bad news for
:42:13. > :42:17.the region's poorest families. And for the next 20 minutes, I'm joined
:42:17. > :42:20.by the Lib Dem MP for North Cornwall, Dan Rogerson. And Nicky
:42:20. > :42:25.Williams, a Labour councillor in Plymouth, welcome, both of you, to
:42:25. > :42:29.the programme. We start with the cost of fuel. This week the Office
:42:29. > :42:31.of Fair Trading assured motorists they were not being ripped off. Its
:42:31. > :42:35.report acknowledged pump prices in the countryside are often two pence
:42:35. > :42:45.per litre more but said the market was working well. Motoring
:42:45. > :42:47.
:42:47. > :42:52.organisations are outraged. This is a wide watch. The Office of Fair
:42:52. > :42:59.Trading said there is no problem with prices rising like a rocket
:42:59. > :43:03.and falling like a beer. What we need is more transparency. Why not
:43:03. > :43:13.publish the wholesale prices so that consumers can decide whether
:43:13. > :43:16.
:43:16. > :43:23.they are being taken for a ride or not. What do you think of this?
:43:23. > :43:28.has brought in at a discount in terms of fuel duty for areas like
:43:28. > :43:37.the Isles of Scilly. I would like that extended to areas like
:43:37. > :43:47.Cornwall in my constituency. Some say 60% of the pump price is the
:43:47. > :43:52.fuel duty and VAT. I think also the reliance of the car is much
:43:52. > :43:57.stronger in a rural area as. They also need to protect the rural
:43:57. > :44:03.independent filling stations. what can you offer motorists? Can
:44:03. > :44:12.Labour do anything? What we need to do immediately is do what we have
:44:12. > :44:18.been talking about, ask the Chancellor to propose a cap on VAT.
:44:18. > :44:23.Is that feasible in this economic climate? I think it is essential if
:44:23. > :44:30.we want to boost the economy and make sure people have more money in
:44:30. > :44:40.their pocket. We need to make this cut. A temporary cut in VAT would
:44:40. > :44:40.
:44:40. > :44:43.take three pence off per litre in petrol. OK. The row about the
:44:43. > :44:46.hunting ban returned to Westminster this week. Several South West MPs
:44:46. > :44:48.accused the RSPCA of being too political. Last year the charity
:44:48. > :44:50.attracted strong criticism from country sports enthusiasts after it
:44:50. > :44:55.successfully prosecuted a hunt in David Cameron's constituency.
:44:55. > :44:58.Johnny Rutherford reports. Boxing Day on Dartmoor. The busiest day of
:44:58. > :45:03.the hunting calendar. A tradition that has been around for centuries
:45:03. > :45:06.but these days it has a modern twist. Since the hunting ban was
:45:06. > :45:15.introduced nearly eight years ago, the hounds now follow a scent
:45:15. > :45:22.instead of an animal. We are carrying on a hunting but doing our
:45:23. > :45:27.best to stay within the law. Most people there are no fault in this
:45:27. > :45:32.are law abiding people. When you take your hounds out it is just
:45:32. > :45:36.like taking your dogs out for a walk. There may be times when the
:45:36. > :45:41.chase something they should not but that is not against the law if that
:45:41. > :45:44.was not your intention to do so. Just before Christmas, a hunt in
:45:44. > :45:47.Oxfordshire was taken to court by the Royal Society for the
:45:47. > :45:50.Prevention of Cruelty to animals. The RSPCA spent over �300,000 on
:45:50. > :45:53.the case against the Heythrop Hunt. It is the first time the charity
:45:53. > :45:55.has brought a case against a traditional hunt and it happened to
:45:56. > :46:05.be right in the heart of the Prime Minister's constituency. Some
:46:05. > :46:12.south-west MPs say the charity has gone too far. We chewed agree with
:46:12. > :46:16.me that this is just another very sad case? -- would you agree with
:46:16. > :46:19.me? Into 2011 RSPCA inspectors submitted more than 2,000 cases to
:46:19. > :46:29.their prosecution department, only eight resulted in charges under the
:46:29. > :46:29.
:46:29. > :46:34.hunting act, none of which were in the south-west. The RSPCA has now
:46:34. > :46:44.become England's most prolific prosecutor. If you compare it to
:46:44. > :46:45.
:46:45. > :46:55.other charities which have not put forward private prosecutions since
:46:55. > :46:57.
:46:57. > :47:07.1983. We are seeing a major charity acting in a way that is acting
:47:07. > :47:08.
:47:08. > :47:14.differently from other comparable Tata days -- charities. The RSPCA
:47:14. > :47:22.had every right to prosecute de Heythorp Hunt. Those seeking to
:47:22. > :47:29.criticise the role of the ad SPCA and ultimately defend hunting as a
:47:29. > :47:39.sport -- the an essay -- the an SPCA, it is completely unfair to
:47:39. > :47:44.
:47:44. > :47:47.criticise them when going for a prosecution. The charities spend
:47:47. > :47:50.one-third of �1 million of its funds bringing the Heythorp Hunt
:47:50. > :47:52.case to court. The fines totalled just under �7,000. Some MPs said
:47:52. > :48:02.that was grossly disproportionate, others defended the law enforcing
:48:02. > :48:06.role of the RSPCA. If it were not be an S PC we would to be expecting
:48:06. > :48:10.the police to put together this case and they do not have the
:48:10. > :48:12.expertise or resources. charity's critics say it's close
:48:12. > :48:16.working relationship with the police makes it even more important
:48:16. > :48:18.that it does not get involved in cases that could be seen to be
:48:18. > :48:21.politically motivated. Johnny Rutherford reporting. Earlier I
:48:21. > :48:24.spoke to the chief executive of the RSPCA, Gavin Grant. I asked him if
:48:24. > :48:32.his decision to bring a case against the Prime Minister's local
:48:32. > :48:41.hunt was indeed a political one. all we prosecute on the grounds of
:48:41. > :48:51.animal welfare. Those criticising the address PCA want to see a
:48:51. > :48:53.
:48:53. > :48:59.return to bloodsports. You can see it looks political. This is then
:48:59. > :49:06.David Cameron's constituency, he has been on the hunt in the past.
:49:06. > :49:14.It is a staggering amount to spend on a prosecution which resulted in
:49:14. > :49:19.only a �7,000 fine. Any individual who was involved, if anyone thought
:49:19. > :49:27.there was something wrong with the case they could go to the Crown
:49:27. > :49:35.Prosecution Service's. Occasionally some of the animal abusers we
:49:35. > :49:43.prosecute car or referred. The Crown Prosecution Service have
:49:43. > :49:51.never intervened in an address PCA case. The Crown Prosecution Service
:49:51. > :49:56.can only prosecute the case is taken to them by the police. I
:49:56. > :50:04.understand the police force are hard pressed, we all know that,
:50:04. > :50:11.often when they have these sorts of crimes they do not give them the
:50:11. > :50:20.importance they deserve. If that is the case Howard many horses, cats
:50:20. > :50:27.and dogs could you have saved from cruelty with this money? The RSPCA
:50:27. > :50:33.spent 96p of every pound contributed to it in animal welfare.
:50:33. > :50:42.In many cases people plead guilty to gratuitous violence against
:50:42. > :50:52.wildlife. We will continue to bring to justice those people who abuse
:50:52. > :50:52.
:50:52. > :51:01.animals and break the law in that way. Listening to that is the
:51:01. > :51:09.director of campaigns at the hunt alliance. What is wrong with what
:51:09. > :51:16.the RSPCA are doing? What has changed is that the an SPCA has
:51:16. > :51:23.developed a much more aggressive agenda. Against farming, racing
:51:23. > :51:28.other activities involved with animals. It could be described as
:51:28. > :51:38.an animal rights agenda rather than animal welfare. But they are
:51:38. > :51:38.
:51:38. > :51:42.working within the law? There are two sides to this. They are making
:51:42. > :51:47.objective judgments about which cases should be prosecuted and
:51:47. > :51:57.which should not. It is very interesting. The debate on Tuesday
:51:57. > :51:58.
:51:59. > :52:05.was not about hunting specifically. All the MPs were asking for was
:52:05. > :52:10.proper accountability. They are saying that if it was not for them
:52:10. > :52:18.prosecuting these cases it is unlikely anybody would because the
:52:18. > :52:28.Prime Prosecution Service would find it too expensive. I think that
:52:28. > :52:30.
:52:30. > :52:35.is a myth. This fund has been prosecuted by the CPS previously.
:52:35. > :52:43.What is the problem with putting cases to the CPS for them to decide
:52:43. > :52:50.whether a prosecution should take place? Are you comfortable with the
:52:50. > :52:54.address PCA bringing these prosecutions? They are a charity.
:52:54. > :53:01.They are using their money to take up the issues people are raising
:53:01. > :53:09.with them so I think it is tricky ground for the Government to step
:53:09. > :53:12.in and say to charities we think you have overstepped the mark. If
:53:13. > :53:20.they are bringing unfair things the courts will see that and take a
:53:20. > :53:25.view towards it but it does not seem to be the case so far. Have
:53:25. > :53:35.you picked the wrong fight do you think? Most polls in the country
:53:35. > :53:35.
:53:35. > :53:41.seemed to suggest that people are against fox-hunting generally.
:53:41. > :53:46.laws are voted for people expect the police to prosecute Square
:53:47. > :53:54.there it is fraud or rate cases. Quaye in this one area of the
:53:54. > :54:00.criminal law do we have no accountability or scrutiny? This is
:54:00. > :54:07.not just about hunting but a whole range of issues. It is an issue
:54:07. > :54:17.that needs to be addressed. I hope it will be considered whether it is
:54:17. > :54:17.
:54:17. > :54:23.a question worth asking. What do you think of that? I have had that
:54:23. > :54:28.debate in these past. The whole point of the justice system we have
:54:28. > :54:36.is twofold. The CPS is there to do things in the interest of public
:54:36. > :54:43.safety. There are assertive judgments using public money.
:54:43. > :54:48.they can focus on other things like murder cases? I do not think we can
:54:48. > :54:58.criticise the charity at the moment for doing something that they think
:54:58. > :54:59.
:54:59. > :55:05.is important. What is your position? The Association of police
:55:05. > :55:10.forces says that if the address PC did not do this work no one else
:55:10. > :55:16.would so when they see it as being in the public interest to prosecute
:55:17. > :55:22.they should go ahead and prosecute. Has this high profile case had a
:55:22. > :55:28.long-term impact on hunts, do you think? I think hunts will continue
:55:28. > :55:35.to operate within the law, they are doing their best to do that. If any
:55:35. > :55:43.organisation chooses to bring Massa prosecutions then it is going to be
:55:43. > :55:46.very difficult for anyone to defend. -- massive prosecutions. Labour
:55:46. > :55:48.councillors say the Government's new plan for childcare could have a
:55:49. > :55:51.devastating impact on some of the poorest families in the south-west.
:55:51. > :55:54.But Conservative councillors who run the children's services in one
:55:54. > :55:58.of the most economically deprived parts of the region says increasing
:55:58. > :56:05.numbers of children looked after by each adult is a good idea. Our
:56:05. > :56:09.reporter has more. The best start in life. It's what parents want and
:56:09. > :56:11.it's what the Government wants. But many families find childcare
:56:11. > :56:21.expensive and some mums have to decide whether it makes financial
:56:21. > :56:24.
:56:24. > :56:34.sense to return to work. Mums who return to work on a part-time basis
:56:34. > :56:40.
:56:40. > :56:43.like I did, a lot of their salary will just go to childcare.
:56:43. > :56:46.Government's hoping that proposals announced this week will help bring
:56:46. > :56:48.down prices. One idea is to change staff to children ratios so
:56:48. > :56:57.nurseries and childminders have more flexibility to take on more
:56:57. > :57:02.children. What I am worried about now is that we are moving from the
:57:02. > :57:07.model of high quality to lower quality and I think the outcome
:57:07. > :57:09.will be much lower. Minister know that if you get the first five
:57:10. > :57:13.years right in a child's development, it can make a crucial
:57:13. > :57:15.difference to how well they do as adults. A report by a think-tank
:57:15. > :57:17.called policy exchange shows that children in deprived areas aren't
:57:18. > :57:20.getting the best childcare. The government's also announced this
:57:20. > :57:30.week that it wants councils to focus more resources on
:57:30. > :57:33.
:57:33. > :57:40.disadvantaged children. But Labour- run Plymouth city council says the
:57:40. > :57:45.government's initiative risks creating more inequalities. Will
:57:45. > :57:51.some nurseries choose to continue with the present ratios and some go
:57:51. > :57:56.with the higher ratios? If that is the case the only ones who will get
:57:56. > :57:59.the better ones are of the people who can afford it. In Plymouth's
:57:59. > :58:01.poorest areas, only 5% of nurseries are rated 'outstanding' by Ofsted.
:58:01. > :58:11.Compare that with conservative-run Torbay, where 33% get top marks.
:58:11. > :58:11.
:58:11. > :58:20.And on paper, the Bay is more deprived that Plymouth. It is about
:58:21. > :58:30.working very closely with our partners in the nurseries. We have
:58:31. > :58:34.
:58:34. > :58:36.done a lot of work on their early intervention for troubled families.
:58:36. > :58:46.Councillor Lewis also thinks the recently announced changes will
:58:46. > :58:46.
:58:46. > :58:51.benefit children across the country. We have already put in a mechanism
:58:51. > :58:57.to make sure that provision for our youngsters is always there and is
:58:57. > :59:02.good. That is not the same throughout the country. The problem
:59:02. > :59:07.we are looking at is that you cannot take one area like ours on
:59:07. > :59:15.its own, we have to look across the board. There are other authorities
:59:15. > :59:17.not doing so well and I think these measures are there to help them.
:59:17. > :59:20.This September around 300 of Torbay's 2-year-olds will benefit
:59:20. > :59:22.from free government-funded nursery places. The Bay's conservative run
:59:22. > :59:31.council insists the government is moving in the right direction AND
:59:31. > :59:40.improving childcare for everyone. This is an issue I know concerns
:59:40. > :59:46.you. I will ask by asking Dan for his possession. Is it right having
:59:46. > :59:52.a higher ratio of children to adults? It is not just nurseries
:59:52. > :00:00.but childminders, too. I think you have to look at both sides. First
:00:00. > :00:02.we need to increase the money going in. It is already money for two-
:00:03. > :00:09.year-olds from disadvantaged backgrounds but secondly we are
:00:09. > :00:15.talking about child minder qualifications as well. If we want
:00:15. > :00:21.more qualifications we will have to pay them more it. A lot of people
:00:21. > :00:30.find it very hard to understand how it could possibly be better to have
:00:30. > :00:35.less adults her child. A lot of these people are paid very low
:00:35. > :00:42.wages so what you want to do is to bring better people in, to
:00:42. > :00:48.encourage those who already work in the organisations to achieve higher
:00:48. > :00:52.qualifications. I think they failed to realise that there is already a
:00:52. > :00:57.provision so that there is ongoing training in these nurseries. Quite
:00:57. > :01:02.often people working in those nurseries are qualified to degree
:01:02. > :01:10.level. While I welcome that there would be a starting qualification,
:01:10. > :01:14.that is not really going to solve the problem. The racial is going up
:01:14. > :01:20.to one adult to six children. I was talking in my local Nasri and B
:01:20. > :01:30.were seeing the other day, it could take them a whole hour just to do
:01:30. > :01:34.
:01:34. > :01:42.intermit here. -- saying. -- intermit here. I am interested in
:01:42. > :01:47.seeing the budgets and how they think they will get money through
:01:47. > :01:57.to nurseries. We only have to look at sure starts where 400 have
:01:57. > :02:05.closed across the country. We have to increase the number of places
:02:05. > :02:12.that are out there. We also want to drive up wages in this sector. We
:02:12. > :02:16.have some very skilled, very hearing people who are giving a
:02:16. > :02:23.start in life to these young people but at the moment they are paid low
:02:23. > :02:25.wages. Now our regular round-up of the political week in 60 seconds.
:02:25. > :02:35.The plan to close Brixham coastguard was again questioned
:02:35. > :02:36.
:02:36. > :02:43.after stormy seas took the lives of two men. By how can the Prime
:02:43. > :02:48.Minister reassure local fishermen with increased amounts of catch --
:02:49. > :02:56.tax on beer catches that the risks they take will not increase with
:02:57. > :02:58.the closure of the coastguard? the PM was asked to save the
:02:58. > :03:01.Portland search-and-rescue helicopter by sending his ministers
:03:01. > :03:06.to Dorset. Two of the south-west's elected police commissioners said
:03:06. > :03:08.they are going to put up their part of the council tax. Controversial
:03:08. > :03:16.proposals for a new parliamentary seat crossing the Devon/Cornwall
:03:16. > :03:19.border were thrown out by MPs. And a hairdresser from Liskeard was put
:03:19. > :03:29.on a Cornwall council blacklist after his campaign against traffic
:03:29. > :03:40.
:03:40. > :03:45.wardens. Traffic warden alert! Proposals for a new cross-border
:03:45. > :03:51.constituency have been thrown out, this would have been your seat, are
:03:51. > :04:01.you pleased? Many people were opposed so why am really pleased we
:04:01. > :04:05.
:04:05. > :04:15.were able to throw this out. We won the day. A relieved man. And we saw
:04:15. > :04:16.
:04:16. > :04:22.at the end a hairdresser being blacklisted for warning about
:04:22. > :04:30.traffic wardens, what does that mean? We have to insure that
:04:30. > :04:35.measures are put in place to keep our staff say. It is just being
:04:35. > :04:38.sensible really how we look after our staff. That's the Sunday