:01:30. > :01:37.$:/STARTFEED. In the sweths will the decision to freeze Council Tax
:01:37. > :01:47.affect public services 5 farmers urge ministers to ends their
:01:47. > :01:47.
:01:47. > :38:14.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2186 seconds
:38:14. > :38:19.Hello, I'm Martyn Oates, coming up on the Sunday Politics in the South
:38:19. > :38:25.West... Desperate farmers say the government must act now to stop
:38:25. > :38:27.floods destroying their livelihoods. And for the next 20 minutes, I'm
:38:27. > :38:37.joined by the UKIP MEP William Dartmouth and Oliver Colvile,
:38:37. > :38:39.
:38:39. > :38:44.Conservative MP for Plymouth and Sutton and Devonport. Now wam is
:38:44. > :38:49.smiling more than usual, -- William is smiling more than usual, because
:38:49. > :38:53.UKIP beat the Tories into second place in Eastleigh. The Tories had
:38:53. > :38:57.hoped they would take the seat from the Liberal Democrats after the
:38:57. > :39:04.resignation of Chris Huhne. You want to take this forwards. Have
:39:04. > :39:10.you got the organisation to build on this? I don't think that is the
:39:10. > :39:17.point. This is a sensational... Organisation has been an issue.
:39:17. > :39:23.is a sensational result in a constituency in which we polled
:39:23. > :39:28.over 28%. And the key issue was unlimited imtkpraigs and permanent
:39:28. > :39:34.settlement from the EU. -- immigration. And people are
:39:34. > :39:39.concerned by the rules that permit this. To make matters worse, the
:39:39. > :39:44.Prime Minister David Cameron is a supporter of Turkey becoming a
:39:44. > :39:50.member of the EU, which would compound all of these problems and
:39:50. > :39:54.make all of this much worse. This is a massive wake up call to the
:39:54. > :39:59.Conservatives, to the Liberal Democrats and to Labour on their
:39:59. > :40:03.policies on the EU and what they're doing in the rest of the country.
:40:03. > :40:07.You have had a go at the Conservatives, euro sceptic
:40:07. > :40:12.Conservatives are saying this divides the right-wing vote and in
:40:12. > :40:15.this case in the Liberal Democrats in a general election it would let
:40:15. > :40:19.Labour in? I mentioned Labour and the Liberal Democrats as well. It
:40:19. > :40:24.should be a concern for Labour, the Labour Party and Ed Miliband want
:40:24. > :40:30.to deny the British people a referendum on the EU and as a
:40:30. > :40:38.result in a seat where they will aboved 20% at an ideal time they
:40:38. > :40:44.pold less than 10%. -- pold less than 10%. It is a make up call for
:40:44. > :40:49.all the establishment parties. must be worried, if this result was
:40:49. > :40:54.projected on your seat, you won't go back as an MP. Well, we have to
:40:54. > :40:58.calm down. This is an area, which has happened, I think, because
:40:58. > :41:02.people who are Conservative-minded have got frustrated that we are
:41:02. > :41:07.part of a coalition. They're more Conservative than you. Isn't that
:41:07. > :41:11.worrying? One thing that igs clear, if people want a referendum on
:41:11. > :41:15.Europe the only way to do it after the general election is by
:41:15. > :41:19.returning a Conservative Government. As you say, both Labour and the
:41:19. > :41:25.Liberal Democrats are against it and we are the only party which is
:41:25. > :41:28.actually, who will have a real chabs of - chance of forming a
:41:28. > :41:34.Government who would do it. What about the argument from your MPs
:41:34. > :41:40.who say you need to do a deal with UKIP to unite the right-wing vote
:41:40. > :41:43.to get back in as that Government. I think that we are, David Cameron
:41:43. > :41:48.has made it clear we are going renegotiate our position with the
:41:48. > :41:54.EU and then offer that as a referendum to the country and that
:41:54. > :41:58.is the right way to approach it and you know, I don't think UKIP has
:41:58. > :42:04.got very much further. Their aim was always to have a referendum. We
:42:04. > :42:12.have said we will do that. So we should get on with it. And we must
:42:12. > :42:16.get on with the programme. The season for setting council tax has
:42:16. > :42:19.drawn to a dramatic conclusion. A freeze in Devon and up by nearly 2%
:42:19. > :42:21.in Plymouth. In Cornwall, though, the leadership's plans for a rise
:42:21. > :42:24.were unexpectedly thrown out after an acrimonious meeting of the whole
:42:24. > :42:28.council. Fierce disagreement continues as to whether this puts
:42:28. > :42:32.vital public services at risk. Ben Woolvin reports. Cornwall
:42:32. > :42:37.councillors are up for election in May. This week they voted for a
:42:37. > :42:43.budget which might make some eye- catching campaign leaflets. More
:42:43. > :42:48.money to repair potholes. Cheaper car parking. Extra cash to tackle
:42:48. > :42:53.anti-social behaviour. And Council Tax has been frozen for another
:42:53. > :42:59.year. So you, dear, hard-pressed voter, won't have to pay more. But
:42:59. > :43:07.that last bit is controversial. take money from adult care and
:43:07. > :43:12.children to give it so you can have 20 p less parking is ludicrous. It
:43:12. > :43:20.is shameful and it is madness. Council Tax freeze means the adult
:43:20. > :43:25.care budget is being cut by �850,000. Children's services by
:43:25. > :43:29.�700,000. The Chief Executive said 130 staff could lose their jobs.
:43:29. > :43:37.Council cabinet members warn some services will be cut. Others may be
:43:37. > :43:41.closed. Those people on the front facing services like libraries,
:43:41. > :43:46.one-stop shops, the telephone centre, will all be restricted in
:43:46. > :43:51.some way. People will have to realise that by taking these
:43:51. > :43:57.figures out of specially social care, it will impact on the
:43:57. > :44:06.delivery of services. Few council pupblgts have caused as much --
:44:06. > :44:10.budgets have caused as much cross party concern. The Conservative
:44:10. > :44:14.party had planned a Council Tax rise. But in a last minute twist,
:44:14. > :44:19.some Conservatives backed a Liberal Democrat alternative budget with
:44:19. > :44:23.the Council Tax freeze. Five months we have been preparing this budget
:44:23. > :44:32.and then they come up with this on the back of a fag packet sort of
:44:32. > :44:39.budget. It is worse. It is an insult to a fag packet. Members,
:44:39. > :44:43.across party, what I call the good, sound, honourable members, who
:44:43. > :44:48.think about people and not themselves, were beside themselves.
:44:48. > :44:51.The Liberal Democrats say they have come up with big efficiencies,
:44:51. > :44:56.reducing the council dependence on agency workers. But the
:44:56. > :45:01.Conservative councillor in charge of adult says staff sickness means
:45:01. > :45:05.it won't be that simple. You may say agency staff, why have you got
:45:05. > :45:10.them? The trouble with thing like social care, you need to have
:45:10. > :45:14.somebody there to do the job day in, day out. Sometimes seven days a
:45:14. > :45:18.week and sometimes 4 hours a day. The Liberal Democrat councillor who
:45:18. > :45:27.proposed the tax freeze said such talk is scaremongering. Other says
:45:27. > :45:31.the situation in Cornwall is so bad Alex Folks himself realised
:45:31. > :45:35.concerned when he realised his plan was going through. He was looking
:45:35. > :45:44.uncomfortable, because perhaps he realised they were playing a game
:45:44. > :45:49.which they didn't mean to win. Alex is with us now. Hopefully
:45:49. > :45:54.feeling comfort kpwrabl us with in the studio. Is this a budget which
:45:54. > :45:57.is ill thought out and an insult to a fag packet? No we have been
:45:57. > :46:01.working on our amendment for about three months. We think it is
:46:01. > :46:04.properly worked out and will make savings and deliver a huge range of
:46:05. > :46:11.extra services that the people in Cornwall tell us they wants. If you
:46:11. > :46:15.look at the areas it is favouring, reducing car parking charges,
:46:15. > :46:20.mending potholes and the areas it is taking from, adult and
:46:20. > :46:25.children's services, that does look like a strange set of prior pis. --
:46:25. > :46:31.priorities. Well not a single adult care package or child care package
:46:31. > :46:36.will need to be cut. We have said the council is relying too much on
:46:36. > :46:41.consultants, some of whom are getting over �1,000 a day and on
:46:41. > :46:44.agency staff which cost double the amount that a contract staff member
:46:44. > :46:49.would cost. What we are saying is we shouldn't be relying on agency
:46:49. > :46:54.staff. We shouldn't rely on agency staff to do the day-to-day work of
:46:54. > :46:58.the authority. Let's take a social worker emploipd as an agency staff
:46:58. > :47:04.member costing �36,000 a year to the council. Move them on to
:47:04. > :47:08.contract and when they get the same pay and they get better benefit and
:47:08. > :47:14.cost the council �22,000 a year. The same staff, the same service
:47:14. > :47:17.and massive savings. So the flexible of agency staff that the
:47:18. > :47:23.cabinet talks about, that is nonsense? They do offer flexibility.
:47:23. > :47:28.But there is no flexibility if you need the same people day in day out.
:47:28. > :47:32.The flexibility comes in emergencies, at the margins. It is
:47:32. > :47:39.sensible to have that flexibility. But there is no sense in having
:47:39. > :47:44.expensive stpaf for every day work. -- staff. That is where we can make
:47:44. > :47:50.the huge savings. It is worth remembering that children's
:47:50. > :47:55.services were a problem for Cornwall council. Badly criticised
:47:55. > :47:58.by Ofsted and one criticism was there was too staff. This is a
:47:58. > :48:01.sensitive area? Yes that is we can't afford to do without the work
:48:01. > :48:06.that is being done. This isn't a budget that can be implemented
:48:06. > :48:10.overnight. But it will take a year or so to implement. That is why
:48:10. > :48:16.there is a contingency fund there to make sure that we don't lose out
:48:16. > :48:18.as we implement it. But we have seen this culture that has grown up
:48:18. > :48:23.under the Conservative and independent administration of using
:48:23. > :48:27.agency staff and costing this council too much. This is the
:48:27. > :48:33.council that spent �50,000 trying to bring the word cup to Plymouth
:48:33. > :48:39.and wastes money left, right and centre. We are saying let eat's get
:48:39. > :48:46.rid of that spending and freeze the Council Tax and invest in services
:48:46. > :48:50.and to repair the holes in road and it is �1.2 million to fix the holes.
:48:50. > :48:54.That wis the Government money as well. No, this a extra. This is all
:48:54. > :48:58.new money that we are getting, because yes, yes the Government is
:48:58. > :49:02.giving us the Council Tax bribe to freeze it. We have managed to
:49:02. > :49:07.freeze it any way. That gives us money to put into fixing the holes
:49:07. > :49:10.in the road, bringing down parking charges and finding money to tackle
:49:10. > :49:14.anti-social behaviour and using the money that we are getting as fines
:49:14. > :49:20.from our waste contractor to put into Cornwall's string clean. These
:49:20. > :49:26.are things that matter and whip sull port jobs. Oliver, should the
:49:26. > :49:31.issue of Council Tax be such an article of faith? Saving people
:49:31. > :49:34.whatever it is 42 parks week, against the other issues. Certainly
:49:34. > :49:39.the stake which the Labour- controlled council in Plymouth have
:49:39. > :49:42.made to do, who decided to increase the Council Tax. I'm a Conservative.
:49:42. > :49:46.I believe in low tax. I think we should, they should have delivered
:49:46. > :49:51.that and given that the Government have said they will stands beside
:49:51. > :49:55.them as far as giving them money to make sure they didn't have tonds up
:49:55. > :50:00.doing it. Labour decided they were going to put it up. We should do
:50:00. > :50:04.everything we can especially hen people are finding it hard to live
:50:04. > :50:08.and make ends meet. We should make sure their Council Tax remains down.
:50:08. > :50:13.These are the people who will be hit won't only be the poorest, but
:50:13. > :50:19.they will be the elderly and I think it is atrocious that the
:50:19. > :50:21.Labour-controlled council has put up the Council Tax.
:50:21. > :50:27.Conservative leader says this is storing up trouble and there will
:50:27. > :50:31.be serious cuts in the future. There is an argue thament we need
:50:31. > :50:35.to go back to Government and say we expect too much of local
:50:35. > :50:39.authorities. I think they should concentrating upon education and
:50:39. > :50:44.looking after the elderly, but also that we are going to be emptying
:50:44. > :50:47.the dustbins and sorting out the potholes. We need to concentrate on
:50:47. > :50:51.the fundamentals. All the things that your Conservative-led council
:50:51. > :50:59.has failed to do for the last three and a half years. They couldn't
:50:59. > :51:03.emthe the bins, they don't fill the potholes. People are desperate for
:51:03. > :51:10.a change. William, the Conservative Government, the coalition, say it
:51:10. > :51:14.is keen on localism and yet it has told councils -- councils they
:51:14. > :51:18.should freeze Council Tax. Would you have a separate body telling
:51:18. > :51:24.councils what to do with their powers? There has been a move to
:51:24. > :51:30.centralisation and it is probably not a good thing. I have a specific
:51:30. > :51:34.point and a general point. I looked up the accounts and when the
:51:34. > :51:41.Cornwall unitary council was put together they owed about �500
:51:41. > :51:45.million. Their debt is now �6 28 million. It has bloonds up by �28
:51:45. > :51:49.million in three years. And somewhere along the line the
:51:49. > :51:56.Council Tax payers have to take care of that debt. I applaud the
:51:56. > :52:01.concept of there being value for money in expenditure of a Cornwall
:52:01. > :52:05.County Council. This a more general point if I may, which is that the
:52:05. > :52:12.way in which local government and local authorities unitary councils
:52:12. > :52:16.is funded is very far from transparent and in the long-term it
:52:16. > :52:22.should be simplified so people at least understand what it is their
:52:22. > :52:27.Council Tax is paying for. course Conservatives hoped there
:52:27. > :52:34.would be a better deal for places like the rural South West. Twov
:52:34. > :52:40.remember why we are in this position. We inherited an appalling
:52:40. > :52:47.state as far as the public finances is concerned. We have got to get
:52:47. > :52:53.that right. And Labour is like a dog which ba, and Labour put up
:52:53. > :52:55.taxes. -- which bark. Thank you. Farmers on the Somerset Levels are
:52:55. > :52:59.apparently on suicide watch after seeing their livelihoods devastated
:52:59. > :53:02.by months of severe flooding. They say the only solution is for the
:53:02. > :53:06.government to stump up �3 million to dredge two local rivers which
:53:06. > :53:11.are causing the problem. Jenny Kumah reports. It's month since
:53:11. > :53:15.Barry's been able to move the bales on this land. Half the farm's been
:53:15. > :53:18.under water and it's only just beginning to recover. He's been in
:53:18. > :53:24.farming for decades, but he's worried about the impact the recent
:53:25. > :53:30.devastation is having on the community. I have said publicly
:53:30. > :53:34.that I feel that lives are at risk. I spoke to Owen Patterson at a
:53:34. > :53:43.meeting in Tiverton three weeks ago and he said there that lives are a
:53:43. > :53:52.priority. But they were looking at flooding causing loss of life. I
:53:52. > :53:55.would say that anxiety and stress is another possibility. The Sunday
:53:55. > :53:59.Politics understands around five farmers are on suicide watch as
:53:59. > :54:04.they struggle with the impact of the floods. Well it's just stress
:54:04. > :54:07.all the way. You know, not knowing from one day to the next whether
:54:07. > :54:11.the actual water is going to creep up to their farms and whether they
:54:11. > :54:18.will have to move their animals out. To the fact that they haven't got
:54:18. > :54:23.any income. The floods reached their peak in November, during one
:54:23. > :54:28.of the country's wettest ever years. Two big rivers flow through the
:54:28. > :54:38.Somerset Levels. For months the Environment Agency has been pumping
:54:38. > :54:41.
:54:41. > :54:44.water into them. The rivers just couldn't cope. We have got 250
:54:44. > :54:47.acres here that has been under water for over two months. It's
:54:47. > :54:50.killed off all the grass. We are going to have to reseed. James
:54:50. > :54:53.farms around a thousand acres and says the cost of flooding is
:54:53. > :54:57.running into hundreds of thousands of pounds. How do you cope?
:54:57. > :55:00.have just got to keep going and say, we have been saying it all year, it
:55:01. > :55:08.can't keep raining. We had to move out of the house because of the
:55:08. > :55:13.flooding. It flooded my parents' house as well. We are trying to
:55:13. > :55:16.sort all of that out. For years people have been saying that you
:55:16. > :55:19.need to clear the silt clogging up the rivers if you want to stop
:55:19. > :55:21.flooding that we have seen recently from happening again. The
:55:21. > :55:30.Environment Agency has now agreed that desilting or dredging will
:55:30. > :55:33.help. But the scheme would cost �3 million and it doesn't meet the
:55:34. > :55:36.right criteria to get funding. Campaigners say the current funding
:55:36. > :55:43.formula focuses cash on schemes that bring benefits to bigger
:55:43. > :55:45.population areas. So Exeter's flood defence scheme will cost �26
:55:45. > :55:53.million, but the Government estimates it will bring more than
:55:53. > :55:56.�200 million in benefits to the local economy. Such funding
:55:56. > :56:02.criteria means rural areas tend to lose out, because fewer people live
:56:02. > :56:08.there. There's been a large amount spent within the area on a managed
:56:08. > :56:11.salt marsh retreat, something upwards of �18 million. If a small
:56:11. > :56:13.portion of that had been spent on dredging the rivers, we probably
:56:14. > :56:23.wouldn't be stood here today talking about the problems, because
:56:24. > :56:28.
:56:28. > :56:34.the problems wouldn't have been as great. This week a local MP called
:56:34. > :56:37.on the Government to find the cash, but there was no instant answer.
:56:37. > :56:40.Rivers have a nasty habit of silting up. That's why you dredge
:56:40. > :56:50.them. But the Environment Agency no longer dredges rivers in my
:56:50. > :56:53.
:56:53. > :56:55.constituency. Because they say they can't afford it. There is something
:56:55. > :56:58.that needs urgent forensic scrutiny by my honourable friend's
:56:58. > :57:01.department. I have to make sure every penny we spend on flood
:57:01. > :57:04.defences and protection is spent as professionally, with as much value
:57:04. > :57:10.for money, because it is not my money, it is our constituents'
:57:10. > :57:20.money. All interested party now to have to wait until April when they
:57:20. > :57:23.
:57:23. > :57:28.will see if the level can be declared a special case for funding.
:57:28. > :57:32.Oliver the you agree the Government should find this money.
:57:32. > :57:39.understand Richard Benyon has ruled that out. But it is a big issue.
:57:39. > :57:42.You just have to look at the impact it had on the transport system here.
:57:42. > :57:46.But sticking to the farmers they have a specific problem. But there
:57:46. > :57:51.are other people affected by this. We need to Mike sure that we do as
:57:51. > :57:56.much as we do to pick sure -- make sure that we do as much as we can
:57:56. > :58:03.to make sure there are safeguards put in place. It is very important.
:58:03. > :58:08.Plays like Exeter have got money, should the farmers get money?
:58:08. > :58:14.would endorse the gentleman in the film who advocated that the money
:58:14. > :58:24.that is being spent on creating artificial flooding in the area,
:58:24. > :58:30.because of an EU directive, should be... Should be allocated towards
:58:30. > :58:36.dredging these two rivers. One of which is the river Tone. That is
:58:36. > :58:40.logical and Governments hardly ever do logical things fpts but perhaps
:58:40. > :58:45.Oliver can can use his good offices with the coalition for once to do
:58:45. > :58:51.something logical. I may raise the whole issue to do with this on
:58:51. > :58:56.Friday. I ended up going to a meeting where �167 million is what
:58:56. > :59:03.it has cost in the local economies. Now our regular round-up of the
:59:03. > :59:08.political week in 60 seconds. The Cornwall councillor who said
:59:08. > :59:11.disabled children should be put down eventually resigned. While
:59:12. > :59:15.claiming several of his colleagues urged him not to. All the
:59:15. > :59:19.councillors that's rung me - and there must be a good you know at
:59:19. > :59:24.least half a dozen - has asked me not to resign, to stick in there,
:59:25. > :59:34.because they know what I am. They know what I'm like and they find it
:59:35. > :59:35.
:59:35. > :59:40.strange that I've made this remark. The Government is asked to protect
:59:40. > :59:43.direct rail services between Torbay and London. This is certainly an
:59:43. > :59:49.issue that can be considered when any future franchise bid is being
:59:49. > :59:51.prepared. And it's confirmed pilot badger cull will go ahead this
:59:51. > :59:53.summer in Somerset and Gloucestershire and the lavish
:59:53. > :00:03.compensation given to Dorset MP Richard Drax's ancestors when
:00:03. > :00:10.
:00:10. > :00:15.Parliament freed the slaves they owned in Barbados. Oliver, some
:00:15. > :00:19.people may say you're lobbying to get better services between
:00:19. > :00:23.Plymouth and London on the train is like will mean Torbay is worse
:00:23. > :00:28.offer? Well, I think it is important that Plymouth does have a
:00:28. > :00:32.fast service. And we have more three hour train vournys and get
:00:32. > :00:35.trains here before 9 in the morning. That is important. Because we are
:00:35. > :00:40.if economic motor for what happens in the rest of the area. So I think
:00:40. > :00:43.it is very important that happens. But I know the minister is coming
:00:43. > :00:48.to the South West and we will have the opportunity to talk to the
:00:49. > :00:55.Secretary of State himself. William? There is over �10 billion