:01:23. > :01:33.And in the Southwest: will welfare reform devastate the local economy?
:01:33. > :01:33.
:01:33. > :36:00.Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2067 seconds
:36:00. > :36:08.And well and you green energy Hello, I'm Lucie Fisher, coming up
:36:08. > :36:11.on the Sunday Politics in the South West: Could the region follow
:36:11. > :36:18.Iceland in creating thousands of jobs through geothermal power? One
:36:18. > :36:21.MP says it could if the Government sets bold green energy targets now.
:36:21. > :36:24.And for the next 20 minutes, I'm joined by Plymouth Labour MP Alison
:36:24. > :36:27.Seabeck, the Lib Dem peer Robin Teverson and the Conservative MP
:36:27. > :36:32.for Torridge and West Devon, Geoffrey Cox, welcome all of you to
:36:32. > :36:35.the programme. Let's start with the benefits changes. Recent research
:36:35. > :36:39.from Sheffield Hallam University shows welfare reform will take over
:36:40. > :36:45.�500 million out of the region's economy. Torbay is the biggest
:36:45. > :36:48.loser, but the areas represented in the studio today aren't far behind.
:36:48. > :36:52.Alison's working age constituents are said to lose an average of �551
:36:52. > :37:02.a year, in Robin's home county of Cornwall the figure is around �520,
:37:02. > :37:05.
:37:05. > :37:09.and in Torridge the number is very similar. How can we cope in the
:37:09. > :37:17.South West if we are losing this much money out of the economy at
:37:17. > :37:22.this time? All regions are going to have losses. I do not think Alison
:37:22. > :37:29.and her party are considering not cutting welfare, they are just
:37:29. > :37:35.saying we should not cut it quite so much. It is people receiving
:37:35. > :37:43.working tax credit and other working benefits, in those cases
:37:43. > :37:48.they will benefit from the huge rise in the tax threshold. It is
:37:48. > :37:55.going to be put back because they will have more tax in their pockets.
:37:55. > :38:01.These figures are not met, they represent the amount of benefit
:38:01. > :38:07.that is going out. I question to Alison is, what would Labour do?
:38:07. > :38:13.The country is on the brink of economic and financial crisis.
:38:13. > :38:17.Labour is not saying do not cut, just do not cut so much. We are on
:38:17. > :38:23.the brink of an economic crisis caused by this Government's
:38:23. > :38:30.policies. We would not argue there needs to be some control but if you
:38:30. > :38:35.are going to bring in changes they have to beefier. This is not fair.
:38:35. > :38:38.Taking �70 million out of the annual budget in Plymouth from
:38:38. > :38:43.people we know spend their money in the local economy could be
:38:43. > :38:48.seriously damaging to local businesses. We have said we would
:38:48. > :38:54.look at controlling the welfare budget. At the same time we would
:38:54. > :38:59.not be giving millionaire's tax breaks. Conservative MPs last week
:38:59. > :39:04.were arguing we could not cut the bankers bonuses because it would
:39:04. > :39:13.take money out of the economy yet here we are taking huge sweeps out
:39:13. > :39:20.of the pockets of the poor. answer is the Lib Dem policy of
:39:20. > :39:25.raising the tax threshold to 10,000. There is a myth put about that
:39:25. > :39:30.these are different families but they are not. The majority of those
:39:30. > :39:37.who get benefits are hard-working families. The figures here also do
:39:37. > :39:44.not include pensions. Pensions are better under this Government. We
:39:44. > :39:50.have looked after the elderly better than in the past. Do not
:39:50. > :39:56.take my work for her -- my word for it, figures are out from ASDA the
:39:56. > :40:02.supermarket today, people's disposable incomes are at �17 less
:40:02. > :40:12.per week than they were in 2011. That is taking into account the tax
:40:12. > :40:20.
:40:20. > :40:26.changes will stop -- tax changes. Where there is a problem, there has
:40:26. > :40:33.been a shift in expenditure that has gone towards Bauben and against
:40:33. > :40:41.the rural in the overall national budget and some of us have fought
:40:41. > :40:46.against that. We have got to see that fear a deal between rural and
:40:46. > :40:52.urban and this Government is not addressing it. What about these 500
:40:52. > :40:57.pound cap we have been talking about, do you think that is fair?
:40:57. > :41:04.People in the South West might get less wages than that to work yet
:41:04. > :41:09.the benefits cap is set at �500 per week. I do not think Labour is
:41:09. > :41:16.arguing for a regional pattern of benefits. The truth is, they have
:41:16. > :41:20.no policies on this at all. We do have to move on, thank you very
:41:20. > :41:24.much. It looks as though spring may have finally arrived, but it's been
:41:24. > :41:27.a long cold winter and an expensive one for thousands of people across
:41:27. > :41:30.the South West who can't access mains gas to heat their homes. This
:41:30. > :41:39.week one of the region's MPs said the Government must do more to help
:41:39. > :41:43.people who depend on off-grid energy. Tamsin Melville reports.
:41:43. > :41:53.According to keep warm is a struggle for these pensioners near
:41:53. > :41:57.
:41:57. > :42:05.Bude. And and 10 Thomson do not have access to the mains gas grid
:42:05. > :42:12.so for heating the use coal and oil for deep radiators. They say their
:42:12. > :42:17.heating has doubled in four years. It is something we cannot keep on
:42:17. > :42:25.top of. It is not something that is going to go down. We have to keep
:42:25. > :42:33.buying it. We do argue. I will say it is hot in here turn it off and
:42:33. > :42:40.he will say he feels the cold and needs it on. Across Cornwall one in
:42:40. > :42:47.five households are estimated to live in fuel poverty. Across the UK
:42:47. > :42:57.4 million households are connected to the mains gas grid. Nearly half
:42:57. > :42:58.
:42:58. > :43:06.of all homes in Cornwall are not connected. Many risk being left in
:43:06. > :43:13.the darkness as reforms to energy happen. The cost can be up to 160%
:43:13. > :43:19.more expensive. The Government has put a huge amount of effort into
:43:19. > :43:25.getting fuel prices as low as they can be. The energy company have to
:43:25. > :43:35.make sure people are on the lowest tariffs but off bread is not
:43:35. > :43:37.
:43:37. > :43:42.regulated by off gem. There will be an inquiry to make sure all
:43:42. > :43:48.households can get the best prices. This charity are frustrated by the
:43:48. > :43:55.lack of progress. The fundamental is that Government and Government
:43:55. > :44:00.regulators need to get off gas house holds on to their agenda.
:44:00. > :44:06.They have been ignored. He says it is not just about customer
:44:06. > :44:11.protection. The winter fuel payment is a great idea but it is paid at
:44:11. > :44:18.the wrong time and they therefore do not have the opportunity to buy
:44:18. > :44:23.oil when it is cheapest which could be during the summer months. There
:44:23. > :44:29.are various schemes encouraging energy efficiency and there will be
:44:29. > :44:39.cross-party discussions. Meanwhile, the gas networks are committed to
:44:39. > :44:49.
:44:49. > :44:54.connecting thousands more warms to the dead by 2021. -- to the grid.
:44:54. > :45:01.Is enough being done to help these people? Nor and I think my
:45:01. > :45:09.Government did not do enough either. These are people not just using oil
:45:09. > :45:13.but using bottles, gas, all these people are paying an extra
:45:13. > :45:20.ordinarily a high proportion of their incomes just on keeping warm.
:45:20. > :45:25.I do think the Government need action and I have a lot of sympathy.
:45:25. > :45:33.You are the Lib Dem spokesman for energy and climate change in the
:45:33. > :45:38.Lords, what is your take on this? It is not just the fact, I am off
:45:38. > :45:43.the get myself and it means you cannot get from the energy
:45:43. > :45:48.companies and joint tariff which are a lot cheaper so you're
:45:48. > :45:55.electricity is more expensive as well in the rural area. The
:45:55. > :46:02.Government has not paid enough attention to this. Ofgem the
:46:02. > :46:07.regulator has been lackadaisical as well, it has not got involved. The
:46:07. > :46:15.Competition Commission and Office of Fair Trading have really fudged
:46:15. > :46:20.on this as well. What can the Government do? I completely agree.
:46:20. > :46:26.I recall writing a letter to Alison's Government over the past
:46:26. > :46:32.eight years and being told now is not the time. This is as real
:46:32. > :46:39.problem. We have got and neglected army of people, pensioners, those
:46:39. > :46:45.on low wages. So do you give them the money in summer when the fuel
:46:45. > :46:52.is cheaper? Sir Italy we need more flexibility on the winter fuel
:46:52. > :46:59.payments but what I found when I carried out an inquiry is that
:46:59. > :47:04.there is very little competition. The contracts are very similar, it
:47:04. > :47:12.easily similar in some cases so residents have very little choice.
:47:12. > :47:16.You said you lived in the countryside, should we say that
:47:16. > :47:23.living in the country is perhaps a luxury and the taxpayer should not
:47:23. > :47:28.subsidise that. For many people that is where the Levante have no
:47:28. > :47:32.alternative to live somewhere else. One of the things that to be done,
:47:32. > :47:38.if everyone had energy-efficient houses it would not be too bad but
:47:38. > :47:42.these ones tend to be the worst. Government programmes around
:47:42. > :47:48.energy-efficiency, perhaps rural houses could be given a priority.
:47:48. > :47:52.Should be bring in means testing for the winter fuel payments?
:47:52. > :48:01.starts getting very messy and expensive if you build in extra
:48:01. > :48:05.bureaucracy to deal with that. leave things as they stand? OK, we
:48:05. > :48:07.have to move on. Now sticking with the energy theme, this week the row
:48:07. > :48:10.about renewable energy targets returned to Westminster. One of
:48:10. > :48:13.Cornwall's MPs said the South West could attract millions of pounds of
:48:13. > :48:15.investment if only ministers would provide certainty about the
:48:15. > :48:25.Government's energy plans beyond 2020, but he says the Treasury is
:48:25. > :48:32.
:48:32. > :48:35.still reluctant to do that. John Danks reports. Things are on the up
:48:35. > :48:43.for the solar energy trade. The cost of producing energy panels has
:48:43. > :48:47.come down. Firms like this one are confident the next seven years
:48:47. > :48:55.should see subsidies continue. Investment and growth will depend
:48:55. > :49:01.on what the Government do next. is a positive thing and allows us
:49:01. > :49:07.to invest and look at developing into different periods. We do need
:49:07. > :49:14.the long-term vision in order to know what we want to do. A forecast
:49:14. > :49:24.of South West renewable energy over the next 10 years sees Solar Power
:49:24. > :49:25.
:49:25. > :49:31.generated electricity rising by 103%. Onshore wind rising by 201 %
:49:31. > :49:40.and biomass and marine could both grow by around 1,000%. This will
:49:40. > :49:46.only happen with the right long- term investment climate. We've and
:49:46. > :49:52.title are a significant for the South West. Really for them
:49:53. > :49:59.extending the targets would be very helpful indeed. Getting money to
:49:59. > :50:04.flow into renewable technology has not been easy. Best hub in Cornwall
:50:04. > :50:10.designed to test devices has remained unused since being placed
:50:10. > :50:16.on the sea floor or in 2010. Geothermal power was to be
:50:16. > :50:25.developed at this site but the plans fell through after failing to
:50:25. > :50:30.obtain investment. The opportunity will be missed, investors will go
:50:30. > :50:35.and put their money in other parts of the world, let alone in other
:50:35. > :50:41.sectors of the UK economy. The renewable sector will simply miss
:50:41. > :50:46.the opportunity altogether. There will be thousands of jobs and
:50:46. > :50:56.billions of pounds worth of investment lost. The Lib Dems are
:50:56. > :50:58.
:50:58. > :51:04.keen to set a target for low energy by 2016. Billions are already
:51:04. > :51:09.earmarked to overhaul the infrastructure. Renewables will be
:51:09. > :51:19.part of the plan but as the cliff edge of Twenty20 approaches, many
:51:19. > :51:21.
:51:21. > :51:28.will already have walked away. Are you approach green energy or not?
:51:28. > :51:38.This headlines which caught you does not sound very green, does it?
:51:38. > :51:39.
:51:39. > :51:44.Only if you take a look at similar packages. There is ample range of
:51:44. > :51:51.renewable energy which we are not putting investment into. It is
:51:51. > :51:55.going to these pointless pieces of industrial garbage which are being
:51:55. > :52:01.strewn across the countryside and upsetting rural communities up and
:52:01. > :52:07.down the land. Marine is in place outside of Cornwall and that is not
:52:07. > :52:10.being used. What we need to do his accent the system towards the
:52:10. > :52:16.development of younger renewable energies so that the money goes
:52:16. > :52:22.into those. At the moment the easy way to get a renewables Certificate
:52:22. > :52:28.is to build a wind turbine 300 metres from someone's house. There
:52:28. > :52:33.was going to be 6 million matched funding which the Government has
:52:33. > :52:39.backed out of. Is that because you do not believe this is something
:52:39. > :52:45.the Government is probably backing? I think the problem is that we are
:52:45. > :52:54.end a recession, the banks are not lending, it might be a good idea
:52:54. > :52:59.for us to send clear signals that we want Marine Energy, tidal, Soler,
:52:59. > :53:04.these devious forms of the renewables that are a good. The
:53:04. > :53:12.problem is that these wind turbines are switching people off in the
:53:12. > :53:19.tens of thousands. Just to remind people think he's they have just
:53:19. > :53:24.tuned in, you are the Lib Dems spokesman for energy and climate
:53:24. > :53:28.change, are we doing enough? could always do more, particularly
:53:28. > :53:33.on the research side. We need to bring on the technologies of the
:53:33. > :53:38.future but also get on with the ones we have at the moment. The
:53:38. > :53:45.cheapest forms of renewable our Solar and onshore wind. They are
:53:45. > :53:54.more efficient than offshore wind. The wind is at free fuel resource.
:53:54. > :54:00.It is the upfront cost that is significant. That and people like
:54:00. > :54:05.this man do not want them. It has been shown in they are at minority.
:54:05. > :54:08.Where they are being put the majority are against. I expect that
:54:08. > :54:14.would be the same for communities where there are not nuclear-power
:54:14. > :54:19.stations. In some countries like Denmark you have a co-operative and
:54:19. > :54:24.local people actually owned these turbines. If you ask people if they
:54:24. > :54:34.would like a turbine Daisy know unless you ask if they want to part
:54:34. > :54:38.
:54:38. > :54:43.Ornette then they say yes. -- part owned it. Indeed. There are
:54:43. > :54:47.corporate of wind farms in the UK as I understand it, that is a
:54:47. > :54:52.thoroughly good thing. More interestingly, we should be asking
:54:52. > :54:57.the Lib Dems exactly where the sect in all of this. At their conference
:54:57. > :55:02.they come up with one question for Government and say we must have
:55:02. > :55:07.targets. I think we should have targets, our business needs have to
:55:07. > :55:15.come back to that. At the same time as you have got a Liberal Democrat
:55:15. > :55:20.head of State to is not pushing targets. It is typical. Can I
:55:20. > :55:27.briefly touched on business? The CBI have recently put figures out,
:55:27. > :55:32.one third of all business growth is around green businesses. A
:55:32. > :55:40.significant proportion of that is around the renewables. They are not
:55:40. > :55:48.onshore wind South West, Mary and, yes. Are you pro or are you not?
:55:48. > :55:53.Liberal Democrats are four or the deep harmonisation target going
:55:53. > :55:58.into the bill. What we have is a Treasury that does not want one but
:55:58. > :56:08.has agreed to an increase in resources for renewable energy
:56:08. > :56:10.
:56:10. > :56:14.which is important. It is have it! It is a very important one. Sorry
:56:14. > :56:24.we have to stop there. Now our regular round-up of the political
:56:24. > :56:27.week in 60 seconds. It will be worth it! Debate about cuts to the
:56:27. > :56:33.Devon and Somerset Fire Service has been extended after a meeting in
:56:33. > :56:40.Torbay. A second fire engine will occasionally arrive a little later
:56:40. > :56:44.than it would have done to date. is absolutely imperative. Over
:56:44. > :56:49.1,000 contaminated birds were washed up on our beaches according
:56:49. > :56:55.to D and S P B who want pollution controls tightened up. By
:56:55. > :57:05.continuing to use the three schools menu there is a widening of the
:57:05. > :57:07.
:57:07. > :57:10.poverty gap says an MP in Devon. Thousands lined the streets to say
:57:10. > :57:16.goodbye to Margaret Thatcher including the women who used to cut
:57:16. > :57:24.her here when she was on holiday in Cornwall. I feel very privileged to
:57:24. > :57:31.have helped her and I am delighted to be here to be my last respects.
:57:31. > :57:40.-- pay my last respects. Let's talk about the dead seabirds, some say
:57:40. > :57:45.it could be the result of perfectly legal tank washing regulations.
:57:45. > :57:54.think there should be tighter pollution waste. If you cause
:57:54. > :58:01.damage you should be liable for that. Often on slicks there is a
:58:01. > :58:09.DNA trace where you can trace things back. If you cause problems,
:58:09. > :58:15.you should pay. We do agree? Yes, it is a very see his issue. There
:58:15. > :58:22.have been a spate of these incidents in recent months. What
:58:22. > :58:30.did you take on this? I think the liability is there. I do not think
:58:30. > :58:35.the lot needs tightening. I think the issue is on enforcement. We
:58:35. > :58:42.have has been coastguard and devious agencies who would carry
:58:42. > :58:48.out this enforcement having their budgets savaged by the Government.