:00:36. > :00:45.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Ed Miliband and the
:00:45. > :00:48.rest of the Labour clan are in Brighton for their party conference
:00:48. > :00:52.this weekend. He's promised policies galore. But as a Sunday Politics
:00:52. > :00:55.poll finds a third of his own councillors don't think he's doing a
:00:55. > :00:59.good job, will that be enough to steady the Labour ship?
:00:59. > :01:02.Back in Westminster, they're partying like it's 2006, as Damian
:01:02. > :01:08.McBride's memoirs re-ignite the Blair-Brown wars. Alastair Campbell
:01:08. > :01:13.will tell us why he is sickened by the former Brown spin doctor.
:01:13. > :01:15.And speaking of political infighting, Conservative Party
:01:15. > :01:16.Chairman Grant Shapps will give his response to the rampant Tory-bashing
:01:16. > :01:23.In the South West. Tourism bosses at the Lib Dem Conference And with
:01:23. > :01:29.In the South West. Tourism bosses fight to keep casual contracts.
:01:29. > :01:30.And UKIP's hairy biker who thinks he may
:01:30. > :01:34.And UKIP's hairy biker who thinks he business. In London, Labour commands
:01:34. > :01:38.over the two thirds of the ethnic minority vote but now stands accused
:01:38. > :01:47.of institutional racism. Are they right? With me, the best and the
:01:47. > :01:51.brightest political panel in the business. Isabel Hardman, Janan
:01:51. > :01:53.Ganesh and Steve Richards. They'll be tweeting like demented Damians
:01:53. > :01:57.throughout the programme. First today, scrapping the bedroom tax.
:01:57. > :02:02.Universal childcare for primary school kids. More apprenticeships.
:02:02. > :02:05.Labour Conference only begins in earnest today, but the policy and
:02:05. > :02:09.spending commitments are coming thick and fast. Not before time,
:02:09. > :02:13.according to the Labour leader's critics. He's been out and about
:02:13. > :02:21.this morning and told Andrew Marr that he knew it was going to be a
:02:21. > :02:26.tough fight in the run up to 2015. It is about a party that lost office
:02:26. > :02:32.three years ago. We are trying to be a one term opposition. That is
:02:32. > :02:38.tough. I believe it is a fight that we can win and I am up for that
:02:38. > :02:42.fight. The stakes are so high for young people who want a job, for
:02:42. > :02:48.people whose living standards are being squeezed. For people who think
:02:48. > :02:54.that this is not good enough for Britain. So what do key Labour Party
:02:54. > :02:59.activists - its councillors - think about the direction Mr Miliband is
:02:59. > :03:02.taking their party? Adam Fleming is in Brighton at the Party Conference
:03:02. > :03:10.with all the details of our latest exclusive Sunday Politics survey.
:03:10. > :03:17.Labour have unwrapped their conference set. Let us unwrap them.
:03:18. > :03:22.With the help of an opinion poll we surveyed 1350 Labour councillors
:03:22. > :03:26.across England and Wales. We wanted to find out what they think as
:03:26. > :03:32.Labour gathers for its conference. The Labour leader warmed up for the
:03:32. > :03:36.week by taking to his soap box in Brighton city centre. It is great
:03:36. > :03:40.week by taking to his soap box in be here. In our survey 31% of
:03:41. > :03:47.councillors said they did not think Ed Miliband was doing a good job as
:03:47. > :03:50.leader. 30% said they thought the party would have a better chance if
:03:50. > :03:58.someone else was in charge at the next election. You will see more of
:03:58. > :04:08.Ed Miliband as we run-up to general election. He has been in the job for
:04:08. > :04:13.three years! Now it is crunch time. The other Ed, Ed Balls, was disliked
:04:13. > :04:19.by roughly one third of the party as well. Ed Balls is not a pop your
:04:20. > :04:24.man. He says things and he speaks his mind. -- not a popular man.
:04:24. > :04:32.Sometimes he is not the most diplomatic. Sadly Ed Balls did not
:04:32. > :04:38.seem to be that bothered about our survey. Over at a conference centre
:04:38. > :04:43.the exhibitors were starting up. When it comes to relations with
:04:43. > :04:49.trade unions, the majority of Labour councillors thought things were
:04:49. > :04:53.absolutely fine. Just 9% thought things with the unions were a little
:04:53. > :04:58.bit too close. Tricky because Ed Miliband want to loosen the link.
:04:58. > :05:03.The shadow environment secretary arrived in Brighton ride bicycle
:05:03. > :05:08.from London to raise money for charity. When we as Labour
:05:08. > :05:14.councillors what they would do if the next election results in a hung
:05:14. > :05:18.parliament, just over half said they would tell the lid Dems to get on
:05:18. > :05:23.their bikes. We would never say no to going into coalition. It gives us
:05:23. > :05:28.the chance to be in government and prepare some of the damage of the
:05:28. > :05:32.last three years. So are you going to start being nice about the Lib
:05:32. > :05:38.Dems? I always treat them with courtesy. And the parties admitted
:05:38. > :05:44.that perhaps they had opened the door to too many immigrants. It in
:05:44. > :05:50.our survey Labour councillors of warming the felt that immigration
:05:50. > :05:53.had been positive for the UK. We're now joined by the Shadow Chief
:05:53. > :06:03.Secretary to the Treasury, Rachel Reeves. Good morning. Let us start
:06:03. > :06:11.with Ed Miliband. Is it true that the team insisted that he be called
:06:11. > :06:17.the leader? I just call him Ed and I think the rest of the Shadow Cabinet
:06:17. > :06:26.do. Do you welcome working for a leader that says he is winning back
:06:26. > :06:30.socialism? We are a democratic socialist party. We make no
:06:30. > :06:34.apologies for that. The most important thing is that we have the
:06:34. > :06:38.apologies for that. The most policies that will improve people 's
:06:38. > :06:42.lives and tackle the cost of living crisis facing so many families.
:06:42. > :06:49.Policies like expanding childcare, offering more apprenticeships, all
:06:49. > :06:54.policies that I think the country are calling out for after three
:06:54. > :07:01.years of a flat-lining economy and seeing prices rise faster than wages
:07:01. > :07:05.for 38 out of the 39 months but David Cameron has been Prime
:07:05. > :07:11.Minister. I think that is the most important thing. So it is OK now to
:07:11. > :07:16.risk their to the Labour Party again as the Socialist party? The clue is
:07:16. > :07:20.in the name, we stand up for working people. You are socialist party
:07:20. > :07:26.according to the leader. We have always been the Labour Party, that
:07:26. > :07:31.is our name and we stand up for working people, not the privileged
:07:31. > :07:35.few like this government with their tax cuts for millionaires. Those are
:07:35. > :07:39.policies that help just the privileged few. The Labour Party is
:07:39. > :07:49.about helping everyone in Britain, all families. Interesting that your
:07:49. > :07:52.run don't use the word socialist. In our survey one third of Labour
:07:52. > :07:58.councillors said Ed Miliband was not doing a good job as leader. If he
:07:58. > :08:02.cannot convince his own councillors, who can he convince?
:08:03. > :08:08.Well you could say that two thirds of councillors think that he is the
:08:08. > :08:14.right leader. But these are Labour councillors. The overall majority of
:08:14. > :08:22.Labour councillors think that he is doing a good job. What matters is
:08:22. > :08:28.the results on election day. Two thirds of councillors think that he
:08:28. > :08:32.is doing a good job. That us see what they say at the end of this
:08:32. > :08:34.week. Because I think the policies he is announcing will go down well
:08:34. > :08:38.week. Because I think the policies with Labour Party people and will
:08:38. > :08:44.also resonate with the British public. Policies like expanding
:08:44. > :08:48.apprenticeships, giving a break to hard-working families who are
:08:48. > :08:53.struggling. I think people will see what kind of a leader that he is.
:08:53. > :09:02.Well he has a mountain to climb among all voters. Let me ask the
:09:02. > :09:05.question. Just 12% see him as a Prime Minister in waiting, just 2%
:09:05. > :09:10.see him as a natural leader. Why? If Prime Minister in waiting, just 2%
:09:10. > :09:16.you look at the overall opinion polls, we are consistently ahead in
:09:16. > :09:19.those polls. It is hard being leader of the opposition, you cannot
:09:20. > :09:26.demonstrate how you would be Prime Minister. By nature you are in
:09:26. > :09:32.opposition. But he has taken on Rupert Murdoch and the press barons.
:09:32. > :09:38.That is strong leadership, standing up to the vast majority. If you look
:09:38. > :09:45.at his reforms to our relationship with the trade unions, strengthening
:09:45. > :09:51.ties with individual members. I think that he is a strong leader
:09:51. > :09:57.making the right decisions. If that is the case, why has the Labour lead
:09:57. > :10:04.gone from 14 points one year ago to at most four points now. What went
:10:05. > :10:09.wrong? Well we are six or eight points ahead in the polls today. We
:10:09. > :10:12.are six or eight points ahead in the polls today. We're still
:10:12. > :10:16.consistently ahead. It looks as if we would get an overall majority if
:10:16. > :10:22.there was an election tomorrow. But we have more work to do to convince
:10:22. > :10:26.more people to vote for Labour. But this is a historic challenge, to be
:10:26. > :10:32.a one term Labour opposition. I believe that Ed Miliband will be the
:10:32. > :10:38.next Labour Prime Minister and will be an excellent Prime Minister. The
:10:38. > :10:41.big policy announcement today is the guaranteed childcare for all primary
:10:41. > :10:47.school children. How much will that cost? When Labour were in
:10:47. > :10:52.government, they ring fenced money to provide after-school --
:10:52. > :10:56.after-school and breakfast clubs. We think that money should be ring
:10:56. > :11:01.fenced again. How much will it cost? We are saying that schools
:11:01. > :11:07.within their budgets should be able to provide that. At the moment they
:11:07. > :11:13.can charge for children to come to their first clubs. But this is a
:11:13. > :11:18.policy that does not involve additional money. As it was under
:11:18. > :11:23.the last Labour government it will be about ring fencing money because
:11:23. > :11:28.we think that this is a priority. This is something that the schools
:11:28. > :11:32.should do. You cannot ring fenced money you do not have. You saying
:11:33. > :11:37.you could provide wraparound childcare for every family
:11:37. > :11:41.schoolchild from eight o'clock in the morning until six o'clock at
:11:41. > :11:46.night and it will not cost any more money? Well we did ring fence that
:11:46. > :11:52.money in the last Labour government. That money is gone! It has not gone.
:11:52. > :12:01.It is about priorities and we are saying that it should be a priority
:12:01. > :12:05.to provide that wraparound care. So where is the money being spent now
:12:05. > :12:10.that you would take it from? If we look at some of the things that this
:12:10. > :12:15.government is doing, building free schools in areas where there are
:12:15. > :12:21.already enough. That is capital spending. We are ring fencing that
:12:21. > :12:26.many. Again, it is different priorities. We had the ring fence
:12:26. > :12:32.when we were in government. It would be reintroduced so that schools had
:12:32. > :12:35.to offer that wraparound care. Of course schools can charge a small
:12:35. > :12:40.to offer that wraparound care. Of fee for their breakfast clubs and
:12:40. > :12:44.after-school DVDs. But the important thing is that provision is there for
:12:45. > :12:51.parents going out to work. Ed Balls and Ed Miliband are at the heart of
:12:51. > :12:55.the Brown project. Damien Wright was the hit man. Is it not inconceivable
:12:55. > :13:00.that they did not know what he was the hit man. Is it not inconceivable
:13:00. > :13:13.up to. It is inconceivable that they did not -- Damian McBride. I am
:13:13. > :13:19.asking about Damian McBride. What I'm saying is that I was not there.
:13:19. > :13:25.I was not there under the last Labour government. But I do know
:13:25. > :13:31.that these things are not happening under the leadership of Ed Miliband.
:13:32. > :13:39.He has led by example. There is not that backstabbing going on. There is
:13:39. > :13:44.no plotting against Ed Balls going on? I do not see that. And anyone
:13:44. > :13:53.who briefed against colleagues should be sacked, I agree with that.
:13:53. > :13:58.Nick Clegg's conference speech made it clear he was repaired to work
:13:58. > :14:06.with Ed Miliband in the event of a hung parliament. Are you excited by
:14:06. > :14:14.that prospect or is it just boring? That is very generous of Nick Clegg
:14:14. > :14:19.to say that. With his poll ratings of 9%. I think it is up to the
:14:19. > :14:24.general public to decide who they want to form a government. We are
:14:24. > :14:30.campaigning for an overall Labour government at the next election. Are
:14:30. > :14:39.you excited by the prospect, or is that just boring boring? I want to
:14:39. > :14:44.serve in a Labour government is not a coalition government. That is what
:14:44. > :14:50.we are campaigning for. Thank you for joining us. Steve Richards, what
:14:50. > :14:58.has Ed Miliband got to do this week? He has got to start to win the
:14:58. > :15:02.argument about the economy. I think they will be quite clever on that in
:15:02. > :15:08.terms of saying that the recovery has begun but it is not going to
:15:08. > :15:14.benefit many of the voters. Unlike previous economic recoveries. That
:15:14. > :15:24.is a strong line and they need to make that again and again. The
:15:24. > :15:27.recovery has barely started. The make that again and again. The
:15:27. > :15:31.interesting thing, Isabel, they want to make a living standards the issue
:15:31. > :15:34.now because growth has returned, let's return to living standards
:15:34. > :15:41.which have been squeezed. The polls show that twice as many people blame
:15:41. > :15:45.Labour for the living standards than the Conservatives. It is a great
:15:45. > :15:48.scene for them to mine, and it is the only one before they announce
:15:48. > :15:52.big policies, but they have not gained the trust of voters on the
:15:52. > :15:56.economy, so the Conservatives can say they are finishing the job of
:15:56. > :15:59.fixing the recovery now and then we'll focus on living standards,
:15:59. > :16:02.whereas Labour is trying to say, you cannot quite trust us with the
:16:02. > :16:08.economy but we will talk about living standards. Ed Miliband's main
:16:08. > :16:09.job this week is to begin elucidating policies and not just
:16:09. > :16:12.themes, and that makes elucidating policies and not just
:16:12. > :16:18.incredibly vulnerable. The only thing worse than not having a policy
:16:18. > :16:24.for an opposition leader is to have a policy. It gives the opposition
:16:24. > :16:28.something to attack, the media something to scrutinise and it makes
:16:28. > :16:32.you bold rubble and you can see that coming through already before the
:16:32. > :16:42.conference has started. You have sketchy ideas on child, --
:16:42. > :16:47.childcare. Spigot can he provide wraparound childcare for free? --
:16:47. > :16:56.can he provide wraparound childcare for free? I don't even know what it
:16:56. > :16:59.is. Opposition is emphatically an art form, and the art form, and the
:16:59. > :17:05.artform for them at the moment is to announce policies without spending
:17:05. > :17:09.any money and it is very difficult to do. You gave an illustration of
:17:09. > :17:14.how difficult it is. They are under huge pressure, for the last year, to
:17:14. > :17:18.announce policies and they announce one on childcare and you immediately
:17:18. > :17:23.say, how do you paper it? And she immediately says, we will not spend
:17:23. > :17:29.a penny on it, because they are terrified of spending anything. This
:17:29. > :17:34.is where it an artform. The tax suspension before and election is
:17:34. > :17:39.crazy, because they will find money one way or another, but in another
:17:39. > :17:43.way, they cannot say we will spend money on this. It is a real problem.
:17:44. > :17:47.How do you measure the state of the coalition after the Liberal Democrat
:17:47. > :17:51.conference? The Liberal Democrats were in a very strong position after
:17:51. > :17:55.their conference, Nick Clegg had faced and activists on some issues,
:17:55. > :18:00.including fracking, which they supported, which seem to be the most
:18:00. > :18:04.important part of the conference. In terms of the coalition, the Tories
:18:04. > :18:08.have had to sit and watch as Vince Cable, Nick Clegg and Coe have
:18:08. > :18:12.basically criticised them and said they are evil and only the Lib Dems
:18:12. > :18:15.can make sure the Government is fair and works properly. So in terms of
:18:15. > :18:20.how the coalition works, you can expect to see some revenge at the
:18:20. > :18:31.Tory conference. The Lib Dems, Nick Clegg's followers, they had their
:18:31. > :18:34.revenge. Mister Clegg may have convinced his own activists to stay
:18:34. > :18:38.behind him, but he has a bigger challenge, which is called
:18:39. > :18:41.convincing the British people. There is some interesting polling they
:18:41. > :18:46.have done privately that suggests there is a market of about 25% of
:18:46. > :18:50.the electorate which is plausibly open to them, and all they have to
:18:50. > :18:54.do is target policies remorselessly at that group, rather than the
:18:54. > :18:58.broader public, in order to do well enough at the next election to hold
:18:58. > :19:01.the balance of power. That is why policies that seem weird to us, like
:19:01. > :19:15.free school meals regardless of income, may perversely make sense to
:19:15. > :19:17.them. Because it appeals to their demographic. It is a strange
:19:18. > :19:20.political world we are in, the Labour strategists think they can
:19:20. > :19:23.win with 35%, the Lib Dems are going to concentrate on 25. The Tories
:19:23. > :19:28.have seized to be a national party any more. We haven't been used to it
:19:28. > :19:32.for a long time. In the 80s, one party dominated, the Tories. In the
:19:32. > :19:39.90s into the 21st century, the policy matter delayed the Labour
:19:39. > :19:44.Party dominated. -- the Labour party dominated. We are now here but we
:19:44. > :19:48.have other parties hoping that 36% will give them a small overall
:19:48. > :19:53.majority and it is the best they can get. It is a very odd situation
:19:53. > :20:00.where the main two parties feel they can lose and the Lib Dems are openly
:20:00. > :20:05.targeting only 25%. They have gotten rid of 75% already and it is a long
:20:05. > :20:13.way from the policies of last couple of decades Nick Clegg talked about
:20:13. > :20:16.all of the policies he had locked. There is a real opportunity for the
:20:16. > :20:19.Conservatives to say that he is blocking all of the things that
:20:19. > :20:23.voters outside of our bays are interested in, top immigration
:20:23. > :20:27.policy, human rights reform, that sort of thing. David Cameron can say
:20:28. > :20:42.that in Manchester next week. One thing was quite clear, it came out
:20:42. > :20:48.of this awayday, and and this is this, that when you look at Mister
:20:48. > :20:53.Miller band's polls, the Tories are going to make this a presidential
:20:53. > :20:59.election -- Ed Miliband's polls. Which is why I am curious why they
:20:59. > :21:03.are not more keen on TV debates. When the strength of your party is
:21:03. > :21:07.the visibility of your leader against his opponents, why not have
:21:07. > :21:13.him or her juxtaposed against them in 90 minutes three times a week.
:21:13. > :21:16.Let's turn now to the coalition. The past week has given us inklings of
:21:16. > :21:17.how the yellow half of the Government is planning on fighting
:21:17. > :21:22.how the yellow half of the the General Election.
:21:22. > :21:26.When the Lib Dems gathered for their annual shindig in Glasgow, some
:21:26. > :21:32.ministers were non-too complimentary about their blue blood fellows. --
:21:32. > :21:36.bedfellows. Vince Cable led the way in stick in the boot in, saying the
:21:36. > :21:40.Tories had reverted to type as a nasty party and describe their
:21:40. > :21:44.politics as ugly, cynical, callous and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not
:21:44. > :21:46.restrict himself to policies that and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not
:21:46. > :21:49.the Lib Dems had champion, such as and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not
:21:49. > :21:58.increasing the amount you can earn before paying tax. The Deputy Prime
:21:58. > :22:01.Minister proudly listed all of the things he had stopped the Tories
:22:01. > :22:05.from doing. Speak of scrapping housing benefit the young people,
:22:05. > :22:13.no. No to ditching the human rights act. No to weakening the protections
:22:13. > :22:17.in the equalities act. So how much of a break have the yellow brigade
:22:17. > :22:21.being on Conservative ambitions question mark in the two leaders
:22:21. > :22:26.shake hands again after the 20 15th election, what policies were David
:22:26. > :22:29.Cameron insist on. -- 2015? No matter how many times Nick Clegg
:22:29. > :22:32.says no? matter how many times Nick Clegg
:22:32. > :22:37.And Grant Shapps joins me the Sunday Interview.
:22:37. > :22:45.Grant Shapps, good morning. Nick Clegg, Doctor Know himself,
:22:45. > :22:50.self-styled. He boasted to his conference that he had stopped the
:22:50. > :22:54.Tories from going ahead with 16 policies in government. Is this
:22:54. > :22:59.accurate? I don't know but what I can tell you, as your commentator
:22:59. > :23:04.Isabel said, some of the policies that we wanted them if we were a
:23:04. > :23:07.majority government sent out to be very popular things, like reforming
:23:07. > :23:11.the human rights act and some of the problems that provides when it comes
:23:11. > :23:15.to sending people who have no right to be in this country back. So there
:23:15. > :23:20.may be some things we could have made progress on. You are in
:23:20. > :23:25.government, did he stop the inheritance tax cut? I don't know
:23:25. > :23:29.the details, but I think it is absolutely true to say that
:23:29. > :23:34.coalitions are a process of negotiation and sometimes you can't
:23:34. > :23:37.get everything you want, and we had done the best, given where the
:23:37. > :23:40.electoral maths left us. That is why 70 people in this country say they
:23:40. > :23:46.would rather see a single party running the country -- why so many
:23:46. > :23:49.people. I have to say I agree. They are not sure which single party.
:23:49. > :23:54.Give me a couple of major policies that you would introduce if you had
:23:54. > :24:02.had a majority in 2010 and were not held back by the Lib Dems. Speaking
:24:02. > :24:06.the one I just mentioned would be the Human Rights Act. In This
:24:06. > :24:09.Country, we have had 1,000 years of developing the law and we are more
:24:09. > :24:15.than capable of putting in place sensible laws. you would have left
:24:15. > :24:19.the European Court of human rights. We have already started the process
:24:19. > :24:23.of negotiation. There was some progress, but limited, and we would
:24:23. > :24:27.like to move further. Let me give you one other. I think this country
:24:27. > :24:30.has a great future but we can only grasp that country if we make
:24:30. > :24:32.ourselves the best place in the world to come and set up a business.
:24:32. > :24:36.ourselves the best place in the If we make ourselves the best place
:24:36. > :24:39.in Europe to develop jobs and entrepreneurship and I think there
:24:40. > :24:44.are a host of things we could do to go further on cutting back red tape.
:24:44. > :24:52.And the Lib Dems have stopped you? I think that is the case. In what
:24:52. > :24:57.ways, if any, have the Lib Dems improved the coalition process? It
:24:57. > :25:00.has been a stable government. No one talks about when the next election
:25:00. > :25:07.will come, we know it is in May 2015 but that is in part being in a
:25:07. > :25:13.coalition. The Tories wouldn't have done that? It wasn't the plan of any
:25:13. > :25:18.party to go from... In the old days, there would have been speculation.
:25:18. > :25:21.You turned it into a national debate, you changed the British
:25:21. > :25:27.constitution in a fundamental way and nobody got a say. It was debated
:25:27. > :25:33.on the floor of the Has, as all constitutional changes are and there
:25:33. > :25:36.was a lot of agreement -- of the House. Nobody has ever said to me
:25:36. > :25:44.that it is a problem that we now have a fixed term parliament. Here
:25:44. > :25:49.it is, every five years. This is what it has done, it has provided
:25:49. > :25:53.stability in an incredibly uncertain economic time and that has been good
:25:53. > :26:06.for the economy. we will chalk that up to delete -- Lib Dem. What about
:26:07. > :26:10.taking people out of tax, the Lib Dems did that question mark it is a
:26:10. > :26:18.great policy. It is a conservative led government, it is a Conservative
:26:18. > :26:24.government massively Chancellor. This is a screen grab from your
:26:24. > :26:27.party's website, income tax cut to 25 million people. You are taking
:26:27. > :26:31.the credit for it, it wouldn't have happened without the Lib Dems. It
:26:31. > :26:35.certainly came about because of the coalition and we put it in the
:26:35. > :26:40.coalition agreement. It could not have happened without a Conservative
:26:40. > :26:45.Chancellor making it happen. It is right, 25 million people taken out
:26:45. > :26:51.of tax. Another 17 by this April will not be paying tax at all. you
:26:51. > :27:01.didn't want to do it. Look at what David Cameron told Nick Clegg during
:27:01. > :27:07.the leaders debate in 2010. What Nick Clegg is promising is a
:27:07. > :27:12.£17 billion tax cut. We are saying, stop the waste of 6 billion to stop
:27:12. > :27:14.the national insurance rise. I would love to take everyone out of their
:27:14. > :27:17.first £10,000 of income tax, it is a love to take everyone out of their
:27:18. > :27:23.beautiful idea but we cannot afford it. It wasn't in your manifesto.
:27:23. > :27:28.Mister Cameron said it was unaffordable and now you are taking
:27:28. > :27:32.the credit for it. I feel like it is having a three year afterwards
:27:32. > :27:35.argument, and we got into coalition because the British people put us
:27:35. > :27:40.there and we agreed to make the best of it. And as it happens, if you
:27:40. > :27:43.want to hear a confession, I absolutely think it is the right
:27:43. > :27:47.thing to take as many people out of tax entirely as possible. Two points
:27:47. > :27:54.7 million people pay no tax at all because of this rise in the
:27:54. > :27:59.threshold. -- 2.7 million. I'm pleased it worked out. What are the
:27:59. > :28:05.most important thing is a majority Tory government would do after 2015,
:28:05. > :28:08.unencumbered by the Lib Dems? I think produce even more jobs when
:28:08. > :28:11.unemployment goes down, because we think produce even more jobs when
:28:11. > :28:16.are the most entrepreneurial place to set up a business. Are more
:28:16. > :28:24.free-market economy? We make our money because we are out global
:28:24. > :28:28.trading economy. That is why it is so important that we have to make
:28:28. > :28:32.sure it is easy to trade around the world. One simple example, it is
:28:32. > :28:35.crazy in my view that we have global tariffs that prevent some of the
:28:35. > :28:40.hardest other countries in the world, in developing parts of the
:28:40. > :28:46.world, from exporting to us and vice versa. I'm giving you a platform of
:28:46. > :28:51.things that I think we would be more interested in progressing in. It
:28:51. > :28:57.sounds like you are talking about even more Thatcherite, market led
:28:57. > :29:01.agendas. I think that you did a huge amount to show this country that if
:29:01. > :29:05.you want to help the least well off people in society, and the least
:29:05. > :29:09.well off people in the world, around the globe, the way to do it is to
:29:09. > :29:14.trade, and I think we should have an economy which is much more open to
:29:14. > :29:19.free trade. If there is another hung parliament, and the poll suggest
:29:19. > :29:25.there might be, at the moment it is all to play for on both sides, what
:29:25. > :29:32.would your non-negotiable Red Line speak? We are still two years away
:29:32. > :29:36.from that, it is a long way away, but there is a lot we want to lay
:29:36. > :29:40.out. What we are going to be saying to this country is most people want
:29:40. > :29:44.a single party running the country, they think it is clean and clear and
:29:44. > :29:48.you don't end up with negotiation after an election. We will be
:29:48. > :29:51.setting out a very clear platform which will be for hard-working
:29:51. > :29:56.people in this country who want to work hard and get on in life. We
:29:56. > :29:59.would, I think, want to see the welfare state that we have got into,
:29:59. > :30:03.where it is no longer about helping those most in need but became a
:30:03. > :30:08.situation where you are better off not working than in worker, I think
:30:08. > :30:12.we plan to ensure that this is an incredibly fair place to go out and
:30:12. > :30:15.do a day's work and get the money at the end of the day rather than
:30:15. > :30:20.thinking there is an alternative. you have promised a referendum on UK
:30:20. > :30:27.membership of the EU in 2017, that must be your first Red Line? We are
:30:27. > :30:35.clear, we want to see a referendum, a reform European Union. So no
:30:35. > :30:38.poll... ? I should remind viewers that there is an act of Parliament,
:30:38. > :30:46.a bill going through Parliament right now, for a referendum on the
:30:46. > :30:50.EU, which comes back to the House. It is past the report stage and
:30:50. > :30:55.comes back in November and we will be discussing it. The Lib Dems,
:30:55. > :31:01.Labour, will have an opportunity to support what the British people
:31:01. > :31:04.want. Lots may have changed. But it would be a Red Line for any future
:31:04. > :31:10.coalition government question mark we are clear that it is time to have
:31:10. > :31:16.a say. You will know from our manifesto. What is wrong with yes or
:31:16. > :31:22.no? I cannot write the manifesto for 2015. You are asking me to project
:31:22. > :31:26.beyond that and see in advance the election result and carry out the
:31:26. > :31:31.negotiations that are yet to come. I'm just trying to work out how
:31:31. > :31:41.much... I know you are committed but she won't tell me. Let's move on.
:31:41. > :31:48.Your party has been described as nasty and blinkered. What do you
:31:48. > :31:54.feel when he says that? We are interested in helping the most
:31:54. > :32:01.vulnerable people in society. I think we're doing all that and more.
:32:01. > :32:05.And it is a shame that that language was used because we have made so
:32:05. > :32:19.much progress together. Are you getting to the end of your tether
:32:19. > :32:25.with Mr King? I do not think it is terribly helpful for any Cabinet
:32:25. > :32:30.minister to make comments like that. What I would say is that Nick Clegg
:32:30. > :32:37.minister to make comments like that. is the leader of the Lib Dems and
:32:37. > :32:45.entitled to have a view on it himself. Look at these figures on
:32:45. > :32:50.party membership. Why has your party lost half of its members since Mr
:32:50. > :32:57.Cameron became leader? I would like it to be more. But I think the world
:32:57. > :33:03.has changed. People do not rush out and join political parties as they
:33:03. > :33:10.used to. Instead they support you in different ways. If I released the
:33:10. > :33:15.number of people who give to the party in different ways, through
:33:15. > :33:24.donations for example, through friend memberships. If you include
:33:24. > :33:31.that that figure goes back up. But your membership has fallen by 50% at
:33:31. > :33:40.a time when UKIP has doubled. I do not want to to misinterpret what I
:33:40. > :33:45.want to say. It is important to gain members. I think we will have done
:33:45. > :33:52.that by the time of the next election. But one statistic of
:33:52. > :33:58.interest, in the last election I had a 17,000 majority in my own
:33:58. > :34:03.constituency. The difference was I had 1000 people helping me to
:34:03. > :34:08.deliver leaflets and knock on the doors. The Conservative party has
:34:08. > :34:18.changed. We now have an army of people, volunteers who are not
:34:18. > :34:24.necessarily traditional members. The days when you expect people to give
:34:24. > :34:29.you £25, before you accept their support, those days have passed. You
:34:29. > :34:38.spoke about your most vulnerable marginal seats. This is a poll from
:34:38. > :34:45.Michael Ashcroft. The 40 most marginal seats that you will be
:34:45. > :34:55.defending. Labour is way up, you are way down and UKIP is also up. What
:34:55. > :34:59.is happening, the Lib Dem Mo -- both are moving to Labour. And
:34:59. > :35:06.disillusioned Conservatives are moving to UKIP. If these figures
:35:06. > :35:12.came at an election he would lose 32 of these 40 seats. The point about
:35:12. > :35:17.any opinion poll is that it is perhaps accurate at the moment it is
:35:17. > :35:26.taken. We are now in a position where the economy has turned the
:35:26. > :35:34.corner. The right thing to do was to deal with the deficit. The people
:35:34. > :35:37.being asked about these things, they will be interested in their own
:35:37. > :35:45.standard of living. Their mortgage payments. Why are you doing worse in
:35:45. > :35:53.the marginal seats? National League you are kind of nip and tuck with
:35:53. > :35:58.Labour. Well if that is the pick to come 2015, people will see that this
:35:58. > :36:03.government has stuck to its guns. It did not go for more borrowing and
:36:03. > :36:09.spending. And the record demonstrates that the last thing you
:36:09. > :36:14.want to do is give the car keys back to the people who crashed it in the
:36:14. > :36:21.first place. Lynton Crosby at this away day of Conservative MPs, his
:36:21. > :36:26.one message was to go all out and attack Ed Miliband. It is going to
:36:27. > :36:34.be a nasty election. That is actually not true. We are going to
:36:34. > :36:40.focus on his policies, if he finally announces some. Everything we have
:36:40. > :36:47.seen so far suggests it would mean more borrowing and spending. The
:36:47. > :36:55.shadow chancellor said we would be ruthless, just a few months later,
:36:55. > :37:05.27.9 pounds of extra spending committed by Labour. These are your
:37:05. > :37:09.figures. I will speak to you about that during the Tory conference.
:37:09. > :37:15.It's just after 11:30. You're watching the Sunday Politics. Coming
:37:15. > :37:17.up in just over 20 minutes. Alastair Campbell gives us his
:37:17. > :37:36.Hello, I'm Martyn Oates. Coming up. McBride's memoirs. Until then, the
:37:36. > :37:47.Hello, I'm Martyn Oates. Coming up. UKIP councillor who says politics is
:37:47. > :37:55.not really his forte. There was a vacancy going for a candidate, so I
:37:55. > :38:03.said, put me down. And here I am. I'm joined by two former MPs who are
:38:03. > :38:08.far from has—been 's. Labours Candy Atherton was recently elected, and
:38:08. > :38:13.John Burnett now sits in the Lord's. Conference season is underway. John,
:38:13. > :38:21.Nick Clegg is talking boldly about coalitions in the future. We are
:38:21. > :38:33.doing rather better than last year. But some might say that is not
:38:34. > :38:40.saying an awful lot! The fact of the matter is, the economy is turning
:38:40. > :38:44.up. Some of the really difficult choices we have had to make,
:38:44. > :38:53.policies we have had to implement, as showing we —— they are having
:38:53. > :39:02.benefit. People will realise soon that the Liberal Democrats have a
:39:02. > :39:08.good effect on the Coalition, and support will grow. Not a great
:39:08. > :39:13.summer for Ed Miliband. Survey for this programme says that 30% of
:39:13. > :39:18.Labour councillors nationally think someone else would do a better job.
:39:18. > :39:22.They didn't ask me or my fellow councillors in Cornwall, and we are
:39:22. > :39:28.having a really good buoyant time. After the announcement from him on
:39:28. > :39:34.the bedroom tax, which is fantastic news and will be rejoiced about by
:39:34. > :39:40.many, I'm enjoying the conference. It is absolutely right. People like
:39:40. > :39:44.John should hang their heads in shame at some of the policies. He
:39:44. > :39:49.talks about things getting better, but in Cornwall, Eric Pickles's cuts
:39:49. > :39:58.are coming down, but I described it as tsunami of cuts. We will be
:39:58. > :40:03.outdated and reminding them who was being at the table, making the
:40:03. > :40:09.decisions for these massive cuts. But where would you have made the
:40:09. > :40:14.savings? I would not be putting them on the purist, and I would not be
:40:14. > :40:21.doing tax cuts for the millionaire 's. You had a 40% top rate of tax
:40:21. > :40:28.throughout your time. We will talk about cuts later. UKIP is hoping to
:40:28. > :40:34.replace the Lib Dems as the third—place in British politics. One
:40:34. > :40:41.councillor admitted he did not campaign for his seat and did not
:40:41. > :40:44.expect to be elected. He also thinks people might have voted for him
:40:44. > :40:50.because they thought he was a woman. It was a good day for UKIP in
:40:50. > :40:56.Cornwall" elections, as they went from nothing to six council seats.
:40:56. > :41:01.—— Cornwall 's collections. Mark Hicks was surprised to be elected,
:41:01. > :41:08.but his experience on the campaign trail makes him think his party is
:41:08. > :41:14.on the role. —— Honor Roll. I had people giving me a hug because they
:41:14. > :41:22.were so happy there was a candidate standing for UKIP. He is not opposed
:41:22. > :41:25.to gay marriage, is undecided on the death penalty and does not drink or
:41:25. > :41:34.smoke. I am not a typical UKIP member. We all come from various
:41:34. > :41:38.aspects of life. He campaigned for his seat, but UKIP has been accused
:41:38. > :41:44.of putting up on the candidates without letting them. Viv Lewis is
:41:44. > :41:52.another of the new intake, and is the oldest member, at 83. I am new
:41:52. > :41:58.to politics and had not made any particular effort to get elected.
:41:58. > :42:03.And so, obviously, getting in, I thought to be elected you would have
:42:03. > :42:10.to put a lot into it. To just be told they have voted for you, you
:42:10. > :42:14.are in, was quite a surprise. He believes immigration is a key reason
:42:14. > :42:20.why he was elected. In Cornwall, immigration is not the same problem
:42:20. > :42:28.it would be in the South. It is not. Obviously not so many people in
:42:28. > :42:31.Cornwall. Some members have got into trouble about language they have
:42:31. > :42:38.used around race. Councillor Lewis says his concerns about jobs and
:42:38. > :42:42.houses for local people. I have already had a heated argument about
:42:42. > :42:47.it. I am not racist. I like coloured people. I have been to the West
:42:47. > :42:55.Indies and have sampled their hospitality. I like coloured people.
:42:55. > :43:03.But I do not like people who walk into this country and immediately
:43:03. > :43:08.get given money, and there are a lot more deserving cases among British
:43:08. > :43:14.people. He says he has been tackling local issues like potholes and
:43:15. > :43:20.fences. But the Nigel Farage factor seems to loom very large.
:43:20. > :43:26.As a group, with the views you have, how do you think you can influence
:43:26. > :43:33.things in Cornwall? I would like Mr Farage to prompt me on this because
:43:33. > :43:42.obviously politics have never been one of my strong points. Nigel
:43:42. > :43:47.Farage says the last thing he wants is a party of engaged politicians as
:43:47. > :43:51.he aims high at the upcoming European and general elections. The
:43:51. > :43:58.question now remains whether UKIP can make this work.
:43:58. > :44:01.Earlier they spoke to the leader Nigel Farage, and asked him to
:44:01. > :44:06.comment on the calibre of councillors like Viv Lewis.
:44:06. > :44:11.If you go round the other parties and see the candidates they have
:44:11. > :44:14.standing for local elections, with declining memberships elsewhere, you
:44:14. > :44:20.will realise it is not particularly unusual. As July said I believe that
:44:20. > :44:24.UKIP can succeed, not just in European elections, and make a real
:44:24. > :44:32.dent in domestic politics, and on the 2nd of May, we did that. I find
:44:32. > :44:36.that most politicians are engaged with politics, they are into
:44:36. > :44:40.politics. We asked this councillor what his UKIP group on Cornwall
:44:40. > :44:46.Council is doing to influence things, and he said, this is where I
:44:46. > :44:49.would like to have Nigel Farage standing behind me to prompt me on
:44:50. > :44:55.this because politics has never been my forte. You can click on one
:44:55. > :44:59.person if you want to do that, and that is fine. UKIP has stunned
:44:59. > :45:04.everyone getting 23% in the English county elections. It is a phenomenal
:45:04. > :45:07.step forward. A couple of paper candidates got elected, but that
:45:07. > :45:16.hardly makes us unique. To discuss this we are joined by the
:45:16. > :45:22.UKIP chairman. Do you get restricted when you go
:45:22. > :45:27.out of your way to emphasise that UKIP distances itself from anything
:45:27. > :45:36.racist, and then one of your own pops up and makes a comment about
:45:36. > :45:40.coloured people? It is an experience, really, in his case. It
:45:40. > :45:48.is an odd fact that it is acceptable in the language of discourse to say
:45:48. > :46:08.people of cooler, but it is not acceptable to say coloured people.
:46:08. > :46:13.—— people of cooler. But he seemed to be equating black people with
:46:13. > :46:19.immigration. And he admitted himself he has very little experience. But
:46:19. > :46:24.that is rather embarrassing. Nigel Farage says you have picked on one
:46:24. > :46:32.particular councillor, and there were 150 elected, but there are
:46:32. > :46:36.seven who have embarrassed you. The either have convictions rather
:46:36. > :46:42.associated far right parties. That is quite a high incidence out of
:46:42. > :46:50.150. That is another exaggerated figures. What this bears out is what
:46:50. > :46:54.Mark Hicks said, which is, what is a typical UKIP member? We are proud to
:46:54. > :46:59.be an organisation that is not full of people whose ambition was to be
:46:59. > :47:03.politicians. We are party who is made up of people who think
:47:03. > :47:09.politicians are not doing much of our job. —— match of our job. But
:47:09. > :47:18.you are exerting a lot of influence over people 's lives. Absolutely.
:47:18. > :47:27.Surely you should be into politics. You will find that the group is
:47:27. > :47:32.extremely savvy, but what we are seeing is ordinarily people getting
:47:32. > :47:38.back into positions in political life in local authorities, through
:47:38. > :47:40.UKIP, and I welcome that. These are people who have not decided their
:47:40. > :47:44.life is to be politics, BR ordinarily people who have decided
:47:44. > :47:50.to volunteer, which brings freshness back to local government. —— they
:47:50. > :48:00.are ordinarily people. But some people vote you —— UKIP locally,
:48:00. > :48:06.because they think Nigel Farage is worth voting for, then they get
:48:06. > :48:12.someone who does not know what they are doing. One of the reasons people
:48:12. > :48:17.like him is because he is not like other politicians, he is authentic.
:48:17. > :48:26.Opel say that is what they take to. —— people say that is what they take
:48:26. > :48:30.to. What do you make of Lord Ashcroft 's poll which says that
:48:30. > :48:35.your relative success is likely to put Ed Miliband into number ten?
:48:35. > :48:40.Very interesting. You looked at that looking at our effect on
:48:40. > :48:47.Conservative marginal seats, but he did not look on Labour marginal
:48:47. > :48:52.seats. Had he done so, I think you would find that this is a much more
:48:52. > :48:57.interesting picture. This idea that UKIP strictly takes away votes ——
:48:57. > :49:02.simply takes away votes from conservatives is not the case. We
:49:02. > :49:07.have a lot of votes coming to us from people who previously voted
:49:07. > :49:11.Liberal Democrat, and another number of votes coming from people who
:49:11. > :49:17.voted Labour. Let me bring John Burnett and. That is worrying for
:49:17. > :49:21.you if you look at the Eastleigh by—election, they are taking a lot
:49:21. > :49:25.of votes from your people. They have done by some extent, but in the
:49:25. > :49:29.general election, that is a different matter. We have 18 months
:49:29. > :49:33.to go, and UKIP will come under great strategy, not just on the
:49:33. > :49:37.matter of policies, but also individuals. Who will be the
:49:37. > :49:41.economic spokesperson? Who will be the foreign affairs spokesperson? We
:49:41. > :49:46.cannot have a one—man band political party. There have to be a strand of
:49:46. > :49:51.individual standing up for UKIP, having to justify their policies. Do
:49:51. > :49:56.you think it is reasonable to say that all parties put up some paper
:49:56. > :49:59.candidates? I remember a Labour candidate not wanting to give an
:49:59. > :50:05.interview during the general election campaign. It would be fair
:50:05. > :50:11.to say that most political parties in some of the more difficult to win
:50:11. > :50:16.seats put up candidates who do not expect to win. And in labour, we
:50:16. > :50:20.have concentrated on the seats where we are working in communities,
:50:20. > :50:27.getting out and about. —— Labour. If you are known, and if you're seen
:50:27. > :50:30.and involved in the community, people will vote for you. It is not
:50:30. > :50:35.about caricatures, it is about if you are involved in your community.
:50:35. > :50:42.And clearly, Councillor Lewis is not. What do you make of someone who
:50:42. > :50:49.says he is not into politics, effectively? You're working on a
:50:49. > :50:53.£1.2 billion budget, which is under huge pressure from the Coalition, so
:50:53. > :51:00.you want people who can understand finance cheat, can understand how to
:51:00. > :51:03.budget and get things done. Cos it is a possibility and an opportunity
:51:03. > :51:08.in local government to go and make a difference to the communities you
:51:08. > :51:12.represent, but if you're not prepared to get involved, roll up
:51:12. > :51:19.your sleeves, then you will not get things done. But if you are prepared
:51:19. > :51:22.to do that, the world is your oyster. Let us get this done. Thank
:51:22. > :51:27.you for joining us. The Lib Dem conference, Vince Cable
:51:27. > :51:34.said they will look at cracking down on zero hours contract. Tourism
:51:34. > :51:42.bosses say the flexibility they bring is essential.
:51:42. > :51:50.Are you having a good day? Then here we have the cows. It often rains in
:51:50. > :51:53.the south—west, and the unpredictable weather is what can
:51:53. > :51:59.make the tourist industry so difficult to manage. At this farm
:51:59. > :52:04.the ploy more than 90 people, but only 14 full—time workers. The rest
:52:04. > :52:14.zero hours contracts. —— have zero hours contracts. They
:52:14. > :52:18.are paid for the hours that they come and work. Partly because that's
:52:18. > :52:23.what they want, but partly because it is what the business needs. If it
:52:23. > :52:28.was raining heavily, there would be no pony rides, so we would ask the
:52:28. > :52:35.people booked on them and the staff not to come on that day, and we
:52:35. > :52:40.would make sure that happens a few times as possible to that particular
:52:40. > :52:43.person, but a casual job is what it is, it is a seasonal job, working
:52:43. > :52:48.with the seasons. Some unions say that zero hours contracts exploit
:52:48. > :52:57.the employee. At the end of the day, you could be sent anywhere, asked to
:52:57. > :53:02.do anything, and how can you have a life where you can move around a
:53:02. > :53:09.contract that says, I am not going to get any money this week, and next
:53:09. > :53:12.we can make to get £500. Who will get you a mortgage? Who will rent
:53:12. > :53:16.your property? I propose to act against zero hours contracts. Vince
:53:16. > :53:19.cable said he had secured an agreement on government to launch a
:53:19. > :53:25.formal consultation on zero hours contracts, but tourism bosses are
:53:25. > :53:30.concerned about the outcome. If you are running a business you need to
:53:30. > :53:33.be able to adjust your staff accordingly and increase it quickly
:53:33. > :53:42.as well. It is so dynamic, and we need to have that flexibility. Zero
:53:42. > :53:46.hours contracts and flexible hours are the only way you can tackle
:53:46. > :53:49.this. Tourism leaders will be voicing their views during the
:53:49. > :53:53.consultation period, but they hope their changes will not affect how
:53:53. > :54:01.they run their business. Labour has also ordered a review of
:54:01. > :54:05.zero hours contracts. I asked Ed Miliband about change is causing
:54:05. > :54:15.problems in the two this industry. —— the tourism industry. It should
:54:15. > :54:20.not affect how people can bring up their kids and make ends meet. The
:54:20. > :54:26.problem with zero hours contracts is that people do not know how many
:54:26. > :54:32.hours they will be able to do, how much money they will get in. We want
:54:32. > :54:36.to clamp down on abuses. Employers cannot say to people that they are
:54:36. > :54:41.guaranteed to be available, but we will not guarantee the work. Also,
:54:41. > :54:46.employees who work the same hours week after week, but do not get a
:54:46. > :54:47.permanent contract. This is what the conference is about, how we tackle
:54:47. > :54:52.this. Cross—party agreement on these
:54:52. > :54:58.things need to change. You signed up to Vince Cable and the government 's
:54:58. > :55:04.view? I am signed up to reviewing this. They are useful in certain
:55:04. > :55:12.circumstances, and imperative in certain circumstances, seasonal
:55:12. > :55:18.trade, for example. Some people have to be protected. The glories require
:55:18. > :55:26.protection, but a lot of them already enjoy protection under the
:55:26. > :55:31.law now, and are not realise it. So do you not think things need to
:55:31. > :55:40.change? If people are being fit to my stand —— victimised, things need
:55:40. > :55:51.to change. Certain businesses need these contracts. IM —— I am
:55:51. > :56:01.speechless. I feel like I Groundhog Day. I remember sitting night after
:56:01. > :56:10.night trying to force through the minimum wage. This is necessary. We
:56:10. > :56:15.need to get rid of these contracts. Ed Miliband seems clear that there
:56:15. > :56:20.are abuses which need to be addressed. But the contracts
:56:20. > :56:25.themselves can be useful and can be flexible. Are you with the unions
:56:25. > :56:31.who say that, actually they are evil. I can think of very few
:56:32. > :56:36.circumstances where you can expect an employee to be on zero hours
:56:36. > :56:41.contracts and live their lives and bring up their children and families
:56:42. > :56:46.and in peace —— live in peace. What about places like the south—west,
:56:46. > :56:55.where two is is an enormous industry? —— tourism? But you also
:56:55. > :57:00.need employees who are trained and know what they are doing. There's
:57:00. > :57:07.nothing worse than bringing in people at the last minute who do not
:57:07. > :57:14.know what they are doing, and are not trained. What about the point
:57:14. > :57:18.that job is than no job? There are zero hours contracts for some of the
:57:18. > :57:21.best employees in this country. If you do not trained your employees,
:57:21. > :57:24.if you do not treat them properly, you do not get a growth in your
:57:24. > :57:29.industry. It is imperative you look after their employees. I have
:57:29. > :57:32.employed many people and we supported the national minimum wage
:57:32. > :57:40.on a regional basis. Let me just clarify that.
:57:40. > :57:49.It is time for the regular round—up of the political week in 60 seconds.
:57:49. > :57:58.Cuts to bus services in Cornwall. One company announces the closure of
:57:58. > :58:04.some routes as the council makes saving of half £1 million. I do not
:58:04. > :58:09.see their point. Many people see them wasting money in other areas,
:58:09. > :58:11.then they cut valuable services like this.
:58:11. > :58:16.The cost of policing alcohol—related crimes reach the top of the police
:58:16. > :58:18.Commissioner 's agenda. Some people doubt his strategy will make a
:58:18. > :58:25.difference. I have been to so many meetings, and
:58:26. > :58:29.it is the people on the ground who will sort this out, not the people
:58:29. > :58:32.who want to make names for themselves.
:58:32. > :58:35.The government issued an official apology to those affected by the
:58:35. > :58:43.water poisoning incident 25 years ago.
:58:43. > :58:49.And bringing history to life. Saltash councillors hope this model
:58:49. > :58:57.of the town 's famous previous resident will be a magnet.
:58:57. > :59:03.We seem to be making train journeys between London and Birmingham even
:59:03. > :59:06.faster than they are at the moment, but cutting bus services in
:59:06. > :59:12.Cornwall. Absolutely dreadful. I do not support each is to. I think
:59:12. > :59:19.while we have train services that are so slow, and while we are
:59:19. > :59:24.cutting buses in Cornwall, and they fear more and more cuts coming down
:59:24. > :59:26.the line, the priorities are all wrong. I do not want to hear
:59:27. > :59:32.whingeing from Lib Dem and Tory MPs about the cuts at Cornwall Council.
:59:32. > :59:36.I can see them running petitions, but this is down to the government.
:59:37. > :59:43.In terms of rural services, this is difficult, isn't it? We are now
:59:43. > :59:56.seeing a reluctance in the way to preserve rural services. We have to
:59:56. > :59:59.cut expenditure, that is the topic of the next general election. We
:59:59. > :00:05.have not trained in expenditure anything like Labour were going to.
:00:05. > :00:12.They are going to have the deficit. —— cut the deficit in half. The
:00:12. > :00:17.point you make is a good one. Transport in rural areas is not a
:00:17. > :00:19.luxury, it is a necessity. And on that, we must leave it.
:00:20. > :00:20.only if the ball comes to me. Bob Blackman and Sadiq Khan, thanks very
:00:20. > :00:34.much. Leafing through the papers the Blackman and Sadiq Khan, thanks very
:00:34. > :00:40.last few days has taken me back to my youth. The halcyon days of the
:00:40. > :00:44.2000s, when the warring Blairite and Brownite tribes fought over who
:00:44. > :00:47.should run the Labour Party. Gordon Brown's chief spin doctor Damian
:00:47. > :00:50.McBride - McPoison, or worse, to his enemies - has published his memoirs,
:00:50. > :00:59.timed for maximum impact in the week of Labour's Conference. They detail
:00:59. > :01:01.how Mr McBride briefed against colleagues, brought down Cabinet
:01:01. > :01:04.Ministers - Labour Cabinet Ministers, that is - and fought
:01:04. > :01:12.tooth and nail to promote the man he called "the greatest man he ever
:01:12. > :01:20.met" - Gordon Brown. Joining us now is Tony Blair's former Director of
:01:20. > :01:28.Communications, Alastair Campbell. You are angry about what he has done
:01:28. > :01:35.in this book. Why is that. It is partly the fact that he has done it
:01:35. > :01:39.in a way that will be -- will be damaging to the Labour Party at this
:01:39. > :01:44.time. But also because of the lies that he told at the time that he now
:01:45. > :01:51.confirms. I was director of communications and trying to hold
:01:51. > :01:58.the thing together, build the team. There was also Charlie Whelan and
:01:58. > :02:03.others. And that job was made more difficult than it should have been.
:02:04. > :02:12.I used to challenge Gordon Brown about it. And there came a stage
:02:12. > :02:18.where I said if Whelan does not go, I will go. And when Damian McBride
:02:18. > :02:24.was on the scene I was clear that I was not going to have anything to do
:02:24. > :02:29.with him. Because of what he is now admitting to, I think they played
:02:29. > :02:38.quite a significant part in pushing Labour out of power. Because the
:02:38. > :02:43.public were being fed by them, this narrative, the whole time. That
:02:43. > :02:50.Blair was useless, Charles Clarke was useless. And I think that we
:02:50. > :02:55.where the government and had very good ministers trying to do big
:02:55. > :03:02.things for the country. I said this morning it was like being a foot
:03:02. > :03:07.tall team were on the pitch you had your own players kicking the star
:03:07. > :03:10.players. That is why I am angry about it because I think they helped
:03:10. > :03:12.usher in a conservative government. If we had all stuck together I think
:03:12. > :03:18.we would still be there. The If we had all stuck together I think
:03:18. > :03:22.did not win the last election, that is a reasonable point. But surely
:03:22. > :03:29.they were only doing that to undermine Tony Blair and to promote
:03:29. > :03:33.their man, Gordon Brown. It is inconceivable then that Gordon Brown
:03:33. > :03:39.did not know about it. Well in spite of everything I always had a
:03:39. > :03:43.reasonably good relationship with Gordon Brown. I used to challenge
:03:43. > :03:51.him a lot about what Whelan was doing. He would always say, I will
:03:51. > :03:57.sort it out. Another thing that annoys me is this sense put forward
:03:57. > :04:03.by the right wing media that there was this sense of equivalence.
:04:04. > :04:10.People like Steve who I have known for years, there is not a single
:04:10. > :04:14.journalist with the very occasional exception where I lost my temper,
:04:14. > :04:20.who would honestly be able to tell you that I ever breathed against
:04:20. > :04:28.ministers. That was my golden rule. So we were presented as being...
:04:28. > :04:41.People say you were the forerunner. I know it was not the case. One of
:04:41. > :04:47.the reasons why I do despise what they did, the whole spin thing which
:04:47. > :04:56.Peter and I are probably most associated with, once I wrote a
:04:56. > :04:58.piece where I spoke about the journalists as the spin doctors. But
:04:58. > :05:03.actually within the government, I journalists as the spin doctors. But
:05:03. > :05:09.had a principle of maximum openness and trust. Anyone could come to the
:05:09. > :05:14.morning meetings on condition that what was discussed their state as
:05:14. > :05:19.part of the team. I had to say to Gordon Brown, your people are not
:05:19. > :05:25.coming. Because I knew where it was coming from. Did you know that the
:05:25. > :05:30.time but Charles Clarke and others were effectively being destroyed
:05:30. > :05:37.from within the Labour government? I certainly knew that they thought
:05:37. > :05:44.that. I did know journalists telling me that that was what was happening.
:05:44. > :05:51.Ultimately, this is why I never buy this thing that you can blame
:05:51. > :06:01.leaders, it is ultimately up to the litre. Possibly in a different age
:06:01. > :06:04.Gordon Brown would have been an amazing Prime Minister. He was a
:06:04. > :06:11.great chancellor. But he had a flaw, this need for truly horrible
:06:11. > :06:17.people to be around him doing truly horrible things in politics and
:06:17. > :06:22.giving him and the Labour Party and politics a bad name. That is why I'm
:06:22. > :06:31.still angry about Damian McBride. What do you make of it? The current
:06:31. > :06:37.administration is a contrast. We have rival factions occupying the
:06:37. > :06:41.same offices but they still get on. The only time they have a row is
:06:41. > :06:45.when something really big happens. But with that one party in Downing
:06:45. > :07:00.Street there was fighting the whole time. Did Ed Balls know about this.
:07:00. > :07:07.I would assume so. I spoke with him about it at the time. He told me at
:07:07. > :07:17.the time that he had spoken about it with Gordon Brown. So I think there
:07:17. > :07:24.was a concern from within that camp about some of these activities at
:07:24. > :07:28.the time. With this myth of equivalence, in life you expect to
:07:28. > :07:33.see that there is full on both sides. But I do not buy it in this
:07:33. > :07:34.see that there is full on both case. If you look at the testimonies
:07:34. > :07:39.see that there is full on both over the years, what you can surmise
:07:39. > :07:45.about the character of Gordon Brown and of Tony Blair, it was ultimately
:07:45. > :07:51.driven by Gordon Brown and the people around him. The Blairites did
:07:51. > :07:58.things but they did then by way of retaliation rather than initiation.
:07:58. > :08:03.The one-time when I did lose it was the whole psychological force thing.
:08:04. > :08:09.That came at the end of a period when we were relentlessly being done
:08:09. > :08:14.in by Charlie Whelan and his gang of journalists. I would go along to
:08:14. > :08:20.briefings and Stephen and his colleagues would be there and I just
:08:20. > :08:25.had to sit there and not hit back. Saying I cannot believe Gordon Brown
:08:25. > :08:29.would have anything to do with this. You get to the stage where your own
:08:29. > :08:35.credibility is on the line. Coming on the Labour conference. The
:08:36. > :08:42.promotion of alcohol awareness. But before that the Labour Party, you
:08:42. > :08:48.never had to deal with this in opposition because you were pretty
:08:48. > :08:57.far ahead in the polls by midterm. This time that is not the case. It
:08:57. > :09:04.is surprisingly narrow. What advice would you give to Ed Miliband? To
:09:04. > :09:09.keep his head out side of this bubble but it's all about him. And
:09:09. > :09:13.to use this week to really speak to the British people about himself,
:09:13. > :09:18.about what he believes. And particularly the kind of policy
:09:18. > :09:26.agenda he is shaping for the future. And start to heart -- start to hit
:09:26. > :09:31.the Tories hard. They're not pop, they're not competent. They're
:09:31. > :09:36.screwing up the health service. And yet they are neck and neck. I would
:09:36. > :09:42.say that the whole Shadow Cabinet and Labour Party has got to
:09:42. > :09:45.understand that you win elections by wanting to win elections every
:09:45. > :09:54.minute of every day. There is too much complacency. A small lead now
:09:54. > :10:00.you have to grow that. You do that with energy and conviction and
:10:00. > :10:07.policy. Tony Blair had a huge pole bead in the run-up to 1997. We were
:10:07. > :10:13.winning seat where we had not even campaigned and he was saying, why
:10:13. > :10:17.celebrate because we have not won yet. You are promoting your alcohol
:10:17. > :10:22.awareness campaign. Perhaps the party conference is not the best
:10:22. > :10:30.place to do that! That is one reason why I am doing that. I'm hosting
:10:30. > :10:36.probably the only alcohol free reception of the week! There is
:10:36. > :10:47.nothing worse than a convert, I know that. But I travel a lot. I travel
:10:47. > :10:50.around the world and Britain has a reputation as being the blues
:10:50. > :10:57.capital of the world. That is something we should be ashamed of.
:10:57. > :11:04.Why is that, is it cultural? I think it is historical. But I dig David
:11:04. > :11:17.Cameron was right to go for minimum unit pricing and wrong to do a
:11:17. > :11:24.reversal. 6% of alcoholics get treatment. I expect that drugs are a
:11:24. > :11:28.problem but we spent £2 billion on 100,000 problem drug takers and £91
:11:28. > :11:35.million on 1.6 million problem drinkers. Part of this campaign, you
:11:35. > :11:42.have written this book about a young drinkers. Part of this campaign, you
:11:42. > :11:48.alcoholic, a teenager. And it is in the first person. People could think
:11:48. > :11:56.you are writing about yourself. Why did you choose a teenage girl? Well
:11:56. > :12:01.partly, I dedicated this to the families of alcoholics. And I
:12:01. > :12:06.dedicated it to one doctor in Southampton. He told me when he
:12:06. > :12:13.started his career that his patience was split nine to one, men to women
:12:13. > :12:21.and it is now 50 - 50. They're getting younger and younger. One
:12:21. > :12:27.doctor looking after me said I will take you around this hospital and
:12:27. > :12:34.the problems of alcohol are in every single ward. Not just accident and
:12:34. > :12:39.emergency. I watched the foot all, just can't the number of
:12:39. > :12:47.advertisements for gambling and advertising. How have we allowed
:12:47. > :12:56.this to happen, ? We are just awash with it. What we did I think on
:12:56. > :12:59.24-hour licensing was a mistake. Availability and price either too
:12:59. > :13:05.means by which you can bring this down. And the country that has had
:13:05. > :13:17.the biggest success on this is Russia, bizarrely. Thank you very
:13:17. > :13:21.much for that. That's all for today. Thanks to all our guests. I'll be
:13:21. > :13:24.back on BBC Two tomorrow at 11:30am with live coverage of Labour Party
:13:24. > :13:27.Conference, including the speech from the man who wants to be the
:13:27. > :13:29.next Chancellor, Ed Balls. Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday
:13:29. > :13:35.Politics.