:00:38. > :00:47.Morning, welcome to the veritable pot pourri that is this morning's
:00:47. > :00:53.Sunday Politics. We have Alastair Charmichael. We'll ask him what he
:00:53. > :00:57.has that his predecessor Michael Moore hadn't. Ken Clarke just keeps
:00:57. > :01:04.going on and on and on. He'll bang his drum for Europe.
:01:04. > :01:07.Free of the shackles of Government, former Energy Secretary Chris Huhne
:01:07. > :01:09.will be with us. We'll ask him for the inside scoop.
:01:09. > :01:14.In the South West: The MPs Diane Abbott will join
:01:14. > :01:17.In the South West: The MPs threatening to mobilise the rural
:01:18. > :01:19.yeomanry in their fight for better council funding.
:01:20. > :01:25.And what next for the says we've misunderstood the problem
:01:25. > :01:39.of human trafficking and that men pundits who we try to shuffle out of
:01:39. > :01:45.a job but failed miserably, Mick watt, Miranda Green Andijan an
:01:45. > :01:57.Ganesh. They'll Tweet like mad as if Is Ed Miliband's Labour Party moving
:01:57. > :02:02.chid owe Cabinet reshuffle was seen a a shift to the lot of. Two have
:02:02. > :02:10.announced policy changes which could Pensions Secretary Rachel Reeves
:02:11. > :02:15.says Labour will be tougher on the Tories. While Tristram Hunt says
:02:15. > :02:24.Labour loves Tory-style free schools after all. Here he is on the BBC
:02:24. > :02:26.viewers. If you are a group of parents, social entrepreneurs,
:02:26. > :02:31.teachers, interested in setting parents, social entrepreneurs,
:02:31. > :02:34.school in areas where you need new school place, the Labour Government
:02:34. > :02:40.will be on your side. That's free enterprise and innovation. It will
:02:40. > :02:43.will be on your side. That's free be in areas of need. We have a
:02:43. > :02:53.school places crisis going on. It teachers in these schools. And
:02:53. > :03:03.accountability. What is going on with the Al Madina school is because
:03:03. > :03:08.of terrible mistakes with Michael I'm not sure if the policies have
:03:08. > :03:11.changed, the change of tone is I'm not sure if the policies have
:03:11. > :03:13.changed, the change of tone is remarkable, both on welfare and
:03:13. > :03:17.changed, the change of tone is schools. A significant change of
:03:17. > :03:24.reshuffle on the Labour frontbench last week was init wered as a purge
:03:25. > :03:32.of Blair rights. It seemed to be a purge of anti-reform thinking.
:03:32. > :03:36.Rachel Reeves was not saying anythi different on substance but saying
:03:36. > :03:42.Labour will be tough than the Tories on welfare. You've seen that clip
:03:42. > :03:48.from Tristram, free schools will be allowed to be set up in areas of
:03:48. > :03:52.need. Greater oversight. But a completely different change of tone,
:03:52. > :03:59.we are on the side of parents and social entrepreneurs who want to set
:03:59. > :04:07.these up. A different change. Why are they doing this? On education,
:04:07. > :04:12.polarised. You've had the Michael department. This weekend, we've
:04:12. > :04:15.polarised. You've had the Michael leaked memos from one of Michael
:04:15. > :04:19.Gove's advisers which are extreme views about the state of education.
:04:19. > :04:26.And on the other side teaching unions. It hasn't led to a healthy
:04:26. > :04:30.debate which represents what parents want out of schools or employers.
:04:30. > :04:34.This is a huge move from the Labour Party to sound more reasonable.
:04:34. > :04:38.This is a huge move from the Labour have been silent on education which
:04:38. > :04:46.is a huge policy area on the left. Is this a focus group-driven change?
:04:46. > :04:53.They've seen the polls. Welfare reforms are hugery popular and free
:04:53. > :04:58.only apiece the focus groups by changing the policy substantially. I
:04:58. > :05:02.always thought a test for this Labour reshuffle was not whether Ed
:05:02. > :05:07.Miliband would promote Blair rights, it is clear he did, it is whether
:05:07. > :05:12.they would be allowed to be Blair rights. When Stephen Twigg carried
:05:12. > :05:16.the education portfolio it was clear his own views were closer to the
:05:16. > :05:21.Government than he was allowed to let on. He was constrained. There is
:05:21. > :05:25.no point of giving Tristram Hunt this job if he is not allowed to say
:05:25. > :05:29.what he thinks. I wouldn't mind betting privately he thinks free
:05:29. > :05:36.schools should be available beyond just areas of need. He hasn't yet
:05:36. > :05:44.defined need. It could be, we've run schools are so bad we need schools.
:05:44. > :05:56.If that is it, it is the same Asics itsing Government policy. In they
:05:56. > :06:00.unsatisfactory that's no different. He wanted to say he was in favour of
:06:00. > :06:06.higher educational standards and rigour, he had to tell the audience
:06:06. > :06:10.he has a Cambridge PhD to attack Michael Gove. That was difficult for
:06:10. > :06:18.Tristram Hunt he had to mention that. Is that worth something, a PhD
:06:18. > :06:25.from Cambridge? Obviously to him it is. He said they would demand proper
:06:25. > :06:35.teaching qualifications. That could teaching? Independent schools do not
:06:35. > :06:39.have to have teachers with formal teaching qualifications. I've never
:06:39. > :06:49.been to one? What about you? That decision by Michael Gove to allow
:06:49. > :06:54.free schools to employ nonunionised and non-trained people, so he has to
:06:54. > :06:59.Watch this space. The dust settled after the party resufficients. Do
:06:59. > :07:11.the Tories look a bit more like Britain. Do the Tories look more
:07:11. > :07:16.#4 With reshuffles, you're never really certain. There's whispers,
:07:16. > :07:22.rumours, guesses. But the only way to know it is underway is keeping
:07:22. > :07:28.beady eyes on a front door. Up until now, the only way we knew who was in
:07:28. > :07:31.and who was out was who came walking down this bit of Downing Street
:07:31. > :07:35.and who was out was who came walking a smile on their face after going to
:07:35. > :07:39.see the boss. The once who are to be sacked, they usually go round the
:07:39. > :07:48.back. Not this time. No, something new alerted us all. The-PM started
:07:48. > :07:51.can't remember a triple decker reshuffle where you've three parties
:07:51. > :07:58.changing ministerial teams at the resufficient happened on Twitter.
:07:58. > :08:05.Not that the press stopped watching the door as well. News was a bit
:08:05. > :08:10.Charmichael replaced Michael Moore, the first to be pounced on. I'm
:08:11. > :08:15.disappointed to be leaving office now but pleased at what I've been
:08:15. > :08:19.able to achieve in the last couple of years. Not as pleased as one
:08:19. > :08:35.imagines as the man receiving the welcome that went on, and on and
:08:35. > :08:43.simultaneously having Jeremy Browne, in a sense seen off the premises of
:08:43. > :08:58.the Home Office in conspiracy to let # Blowing hi Jude through a traffic
:08:58. > :09:03.Democrats. We tend to think they are herbivorous. Sacking a Cabinet
:09:03. > :09:05.Minister, another minister, Jeremy Browne. By lunch time, the Tory
:09:05. > :09:10.ranks were shifting too. The PM Browne. By lunch time, the Tory
:09:10. > :09:12.to boost the numbers of telegenic women walking into Government and
:09:13. > :09:21.turning perceptions around. He tipped a so-called flatcap to men
:09:21. > :09:24.backgrounds with room for some which fitted neither label but are friends
:09:24. > :09:30.of George Osborne. And, all the while, those new Tory ministers
:09:30. > :09:34.of George Osborne. And, all the learning of Labour's changes. Labour
:09:34. > :09:37.too knows the value of new young blood striding into the limelight.
:09:37. > :09:43.Again some with TV experience of that. Tristram Hunt and Gloria de
:09:43. > :09:47.peer row would be hard to describe as hard left. But Blairbrushing
:09:47. > :09:52.peer row would be hard to describe past out of the picture seemed to be
:09:52. > :09:58.the name of the day. Liam Byrne With Diane Abbott also gone, was
:09:58. > :10:00.this really a Blair right cull? It depends what you mean. Blair right
:10:00. > :10:04.used to mean someone who wanted depends what you mean. Blair right
:10:04. > :10:08.Blair to be leader of the Labour Party. Somebody who worked closely
:10:08. > :10:11.with him. Now it means sometimes people who believe in a certain
:10:11. > :10:15.with him. Now it means sometimes of ideologyies or ideas. There are
:10:15. > :10:18.still very much those kind of Blair rights within the party. But we
:10:18. > :10:21.still very much those kind of Blair seeing the group around Tony Blair
:10:21. > :10:28.are not long assassin flew enjoys as they once were. By evening, it was
:10:28. > :10:32.over. New bees were sharing the ministers quietly thanked commits
:10:32. > :10:46.raters. Or -- commiserators. Or ministers quietly thanked commits
:10:46. > :10:51.disified. How much much someone standing here might want it to be
:10:51. > :10:59.the case, you are unlikely to get someone coming out of that do going
:10:59. > :11:05."how could." And running off crying! And the brand, spanking new Scottish
:11:05. > :11:12.Secretary Alastair Charmichael joins us from Orkney on a line that hasn't
:11:12. > :11:18.been used since the fleet was used in the outbreak of World War I! I
:11:18. > :11:21.wasn't around at the time. I'm hearing you loud and clear. Why
:11:21. > :11:26.wasn't around at the time. I'm you agreed to run a department?
:11:26. > :11:30.wasn't around at the time. I'm you wanted to abolish six years
:11:30. > :11:31.wasn't around at the time. I'm Hello? Maybe our connections are not
:11:31. > :11:38.Charmichael. Can you hear me? I Hello? Maybe our connections are not
:11:38. > :11:42.hear you now. There was a nasty second there where you disappeared.
:11:42. > :11:44.Let me try the question again. Why have you agreed to run a department
:11:44. > :11:50.you wanted to abolish six years have you agreed to run a department
:11:50. > :11:54.Because this is the, probably one of the most important jobs in British
:11:54. > :12:01.politics at the moment. To ensure that Scotland remains part of the
:12:01. > :12:06.UK. Even when I was talking about the reconfiguration of rep sen Taigs
:12:06. > :12:11.of Scotland -- representation of Scotland within Whitehall, there was
:12:11. > :12:15.always a job to be done. That is true in spades now. I will focus on
:12:15. > :12:18.making sure the UK Government has a real voice in that debate. What
:12:18. > :12:19.making sure the UK Government has a you that Michael Moore didn't have?
:12:19. > :12:25.Look, I think Michael Moore did you that Michael Moore didn't have?
:12:25. > :12:32.excellent job. The work he did delivering the Edinburgh agreement
:12:32. > :12:41.clear legal and decisive referendum, the work delivering extra powers to
:12:41. > :12:48.substantial piece of work. I'm not friend of mine. I will say that
:12:48. > :12:48.substantial piece of work. I'm not we go forward into this, this is now
:12:48. > :12:53.about the actual debate itself. we go forward into this, this is now
:12:53. > :13:02.will be putting the case, with some passion, I hope, for Scotland to
:13:02. > :13:09.just some abstract debate about nationhood, sovereignty, this is a
:13:09. > :13:17.their livelihoods, the cost of their mortgage. That and an awful lot
:13:17. > :13:25.challenge. I understand that. But if you're being put in there to save
:13:25. > :13:30.the union, every pole has the no -- poll has the no campaign margin
:13:30. > :13:35.alley ahead. Mr Moore was doing pretty well to save the union. I
:13:35. > :13:42.suspect you've been given the job to Scotland? And lieu, you misread
:13:42. > :13:45.suspect you've been given the job to situation if you -- Andrew, you
:13:45. > :13:49.misread the situation new think anybody is going to be the person
:13:49. > :13:51.who will save the union. The people who will save the union are the
:13:51. > :13:54.people of Scotland if they turn who will save the union are the
:13:54. > :13:59.next year and vote to save the union. We have to put the case for
:13:59. > :14:05.that. That is what I will be doing. Look at the position of your own
:14:05. > :14:12.party. You came fourth in the last Scottish parentry elections. You
:14:12. > :14:18.were even behind the Conservatives. The latest poll has you still in
:14:18. > :14:23.fourth. Are you there because you're a bruiser and you will pep up the
:14:23. > :14:26.Liberal Democrats opportunity in Scotland. If I had a pound for
:14:26. > :14:30.everybody to referred to me as being Scotland. If I had a pound for
:14:30. > :14:34.a bruiser, I wouldn't need to be sitting here this morning. I could
:14:34. > :14:39.have retired by now. The truth of this, if I can address it once and
:14:39. > :14:45.for all, I have done probably one of the most complex and subtle jobs in
:14:45. > :14:51.three-and-a-half years, Liberal Democrat Chief Whip in a Coalition
:14:51. > :14:54.survived in that job a week, let alone three-and-a-half years, if I
:14:54. > :15:00.was the sort of person who went around picking unnecessary fights.
:15:00. > :15:04.So, can we just please forget about this business about being a bruiser.
:15:04. > :15:08.As far as the position of the party in the polls, this is true also
:15:08. > :15:11.As far as the position of the party the referendum vote, opinion polls
:15:11. > :15:14.are a snapshot. They are not a prediction of what will happen in
:15:14. > :15:20.the future. I will be out there putting the case. Neither the next
:15:20. > :15:25.election nor the referendum is one or lost yet. One of the things I
:15:25. > :15:32.really want to be guarding against because we are a good margin ahead
:15:32. > :15:40.today, 12 months out from the actual polling day, that it is in the bag.
:15:40. > :15:43.Believe me, Andrew, it is not. As you know, wasn't for the Liberal
:15:43. > :15:53.Democrats. Not just talking about the polls. You came fourth in the
:15:53. > :16:03.You said you were happy to facial ex-Salmond in a TV debade. Should
:16:03. > :16:15.David Cameron face him? I am happy debate. Should David Cameron face
:16:15. > :16:19.him? No, because that allows Alex Nationalists to portray this as
:16:19. > :16:23.him? No, because that allows Alex sort of contest or choice between a
:16:23. > :16:25.vision of Scottish social democracy and English conservativism, which it
:16:25. > :16:30.is not. This is a debate that has to is not. This is a debate that has to
:16:30. > :16:38.be held in Scotland about the future of Scotland amongst Scots. David
:16:38. > :16:43.Cameron has a very important part in Scotland's public life, but he is
:16:43. > :16:48.not Scottish and I think he will accept Commies edit himself in fact,
:16:48. > :16:57.the person who should be debating Darling. He has got a Scottish name
:16:57. > :17:04.wealthiest of Scotland at some stage in the past. Anyway, you described
:17:04. > :17:10.the campaign to keep the union together as lacking passion, were
:17:11. > :17:17.you referring to the campaign or referring to Alistair Darling. I
:17:17. > :17:24.think what I was saying is that referring to Alistair Darling. I
:17:24. > :17:30.we move into this new stage, and Alistair Darling said it himself, we
:17:30. > :17:36.are now campaigning for people Alistair Darling said it himself, we
:17:36. > :17:42.hearts because if you look at the range of papers the Government has
:17:42. > :17:50.published, it is pretty clear the arguments lie in relation to the
:17:50. > :17:56.head. I am not giving up the battle for the hearts and Scotland because
:17:56. > :17:58.there is a good strong case, as somebody who is proud to be Scottish
:17:58. > :18:03.and to be British, for Scotland somebody who is proud to be Scottish
:18:04. > :18:10.remain part of the UK. You come somebody who is proud to be Scottish
:18:10. > :18:15.distilleries and I understand you celebratory drink for your new post.
:18:15. > :18:22.Not a drop has touched my lips. celebratory drink for your new post.
:18:22. > :18:27.supporting local business! I will be making up for lost time on the
:18:27. > :18:29.supporting local business! I will be of November, I will be doing it
:18:29. > :18:34.supporting local business! I will be aid of Macmillan Cancer care and if
:18:34. > :18:40.website, they can donate. It is worthwhile. I cannot think of a
:18:40. > :18:50.better cause. One Cabinet minister who many thought might get Reef
:18:51. > :18:54.better cause. One Cabinet minister Clarke. Welcome to Sunday Politics.
:18:54. > :19:03.minorities, where did you fit in? I minorities, where did you fit in? I
:19:03. > :19:09.would describe myself as the elder statesman, to be polite, but it
:19:09. > :19:11.would describe myself as the elder difficult to replace them. I enjoy
:19:12. > :19:14.it. It is a great privilege to have a role in Cabinet and I will carry
:19:14. > :19:19.on as long as David wants me to a role in Cabinet and I will carry
:19:19. > :19:25.I have seen many reshuffles, they are dreadful and I seem to have
:19:25. > :19:30.survived them so far. Did David Cameron talk to you before this
:19:30. > :19:38.reshuffle? No, he didn't. I would have had expected a phone call,
:19:38. > :19:48.asking, how do you think about stepping down, but he didn't and my
:19:48. > :19:52.role is one of giving my wit and wisdom to the Cabinet and meetings
:19:52. > :19:57.of the Security Council so he has got to put up with me a bit longer.
:19:57. > :20:03.You said you are going to stand again at the next election, why
:20:03. > :20:06.You said you are going to stand you keep going? What do you hope to
:20:06. > :20:11.achieve in politics? I am mostly a political anorak, I have been since
:20:11. > :20:17.I was very small, by the process of politics but the older I get I get
:20:17. > :20:21.governance of the country and at the moment the combination of problems
:20:21. > :20:26.is quite appalling. The difficulty of tackling the modern world is
:20:26. > :20:29.is quite appalling. The difficulty difficult and I find it fascinating.
:20:29. > :20:30.The old argument that attracts every decent person into politics, you
:20:30. > :20:35.might be able sometimes to make decent person into politics, you
:20:35. > :20:38.bit of difference, and I try to decent person into politics, you
:20:38. > :20:40.that. I try not to hark back on decent person into politics, you
:20:41. > :20:44.experience but we will have a lot of tough problems which I think the
:20:44. > :20:51.Conservative Government will have to tackle. You opposed referenda on
:20:51. > :20:57.Maastricht, the Lisbon Treaty, you were even against one on Britain
:20:57. > :21:04.adopting the euro. It must follow that you are against the referenda
:21:04. > :21:13.on Britain's membership to the EU? I accountable to the long-term and
:21:13. > :21:19.representatives, but this is a minority now and my colleagues have
:21:19. > :21:24.firmly decided a referendum needs to be held to settle the question of
:21:24. > :21:28.Britain's relationship with the European Union which I think is
:21:28. > :21:32.Britain's relationship with the of the most important things in
:21:32. > :21:38.Britain's place in the modern world politicians are able to look after
:21:38. > :21:45.the living standards, the economy, the safety against terrorism. Last
:21:45. > :21:49.the living standards, the economy, summer you said that only extreme
:21:49. > :21:54.nationalists wanted a silly EU referendum. It follows your party
:21:54. > :22:00.must be full of extremely silly nationalists. The people who are
:22:01. > :22:07.desperate to have a referendum are all the people who actually want to
:22:07. > :22:12.referendum will involve the public and people like me have got to get
:22:12. > :22:15.across to the public, don't just feel angry about the last thing
:22:15. > :22:17.across to the public, don't just read in the newspaper about what the
:22:17. > :22:22.commission is or is not doing, do commission is or is not doing, do
:22:22. > :22:29.bear in mind this is our base in the modern world. We happen to be a
:22:29. > :22:36.leading member, almost as valuable and rich as the Americans, from
:22:36. > :22:41.influence in events. That is not just how the politicians get on
:22:41. > :22:48.influence in events. That is not politicians look after us when we
:22:48. > :22:52.spilling over from the Middle East, or we face public services being
:22:52. > :23:01.threatened. You didn't even turn up to vote for the bill which will
:23:01. > :23:04.threatened. You didn't even turn up engagements on the Friday concerned.
:23:04. > :23:07.It seemed to get through without my participation. You didn't want to be
:23:07. > :23:17.seen voting for something your heart Look, many of your colleagues I
:23:17. > :23:24.seen voting for something your heart interviewed say that if the choice
:23:24. > :23:29.was between the state -- the status quo with the European Union and
:23:29. > :23:33.leaving, they would leave. The truth is that you would vote to stay in
:23:33. > :23:41.even on the status quo, wouldn't supporting the EU to leave now if I
:23:41. > :23:46.got chance. I think our economy supporting the EU to leave now if I
:23:46. > :23:55.investment, as in Washington last been if we were outside the EU.
:23:55. > :24:02.investment, as in Washington last week. We are trying to roll forward
:24:02. > :24:05.the prospect of free trade and I have to reassure Americans that
:24:05. > :24:10.the prospect of free trade and I are not likely to leave the EU to
:24:10. > :24:15.That is true but it also needs reform. The cry for reform, which is
:24:15. > :24:23.particularly Germany, is a good reform. The cry for reform, which is
:24:23. > :24:25.Even if David Cameron came back reform. The cry for reform, which is
:24:25. > :24:34.nothing from Brussels, you would still vote to stay in, correct?
:24:34. > :24:40.one which is dwindling in comparison with others, in the modern world it
:24:40. > :24:44.would be dangerous. I also think the dangers of the Middle East and the
:24:44. > :24:54.dangers of some of the countries disengage. I will take that as a
:24:54. > :25:01.strengthen the case, and of some members of the public don't agree
:25:01. > :25:07.persuaded when David delivers his reforms. The latest poll gives
:25:07. > :25:11.Labour a ten point lead over the Tories and the reason why it has a
:25:11. > :25:15.ten point lead is because UKIP are up there with 18% of the vote and
:25:15. > :25:20.ten point lead is because UKIP are the Tory vote has slumped in the
:25:20. > :25:26.Paul to 27%. How would you see off UKIP? By saying you need a strong
:25:26. > :25:31.Paul to 27%. How would you see off and effective Government. We faced
:25:31. > :25:36.terrible problems. Every Government I have been in has been behind in
:25:36. > :25:41.the polls. This Government is not as popular as the previous Government I
:25:41. > :25:43.have served in under the three previous prime ministers. When you
:25:43. > :25:46.get an election, people have to previous prime ministers. When you
:25:46. > :25:53.themselves who do we want to decide the issues of war and peace in this
:25:53. > :25:59.country? Who do we want to get us out of our economic problems. I
:25:59. > :26:04.don't think Ed Miliband is up to it. That generalised stuff will not
:26:04. > :26:08.don't think Ed Miliband is up to it. off UKIP. People will not listen to
:26:08. > :26:12.that. When people answer an opinion poll, they tell you how annoyed
:26:12. > :26:17.that. When people answer an opinion are by something that has recently
:26:17. > :26:21.upset them, but people are more sensible than this. Every Government
:26:21. > :26:28.I have served in has been behind in the polls. At a general election you
:26:28. > :26:37.have to mobilise the public to start thinking, who do we want to govern
:26:37. > :26:45.us? They did take over a calamitous important problems to be decided
:26:45. > :26:49.going forward. UKIP represents anti-immigration, anti-foreigners,
:26:49. > :26:52.anti-Europe, anti-politics but I don't think it will get 18% of the
:26:52. > :27:26.Thank you. Once upon a time, a politician whose career ended in
:27:26. > :27:29.disgrace might choose to lie low for a while, perhaps to spend a bit
:27:29. > :27:31.disgrace might choose to lie low for time tending the tulips and doing
:27:31. > :27:32.the odd bit of charity work. Not Chris Huhne. He walked free from
:27:32. > :27:35.prison only five months ago but Chris Huhne. He walked free from
:27:36. > :27:39.former Energy Secretary is already back in the public eye - a column in
:27:39. > :27:43.the Guardian, a job with a renewable interview. So is he working on a
:27:43. > :27:47.political rehabilitation? Chris Politics. The answer to that is
:27:47. > :27:50.clearly know, and thank you for inviting me back. You have set your
:27:50. > :27:55.career in politics is over so what does the future hold for you? I
:27:55. > :27:58.career in politics is over so what happy doing what I am doing, I am
:27:58. > :28:03.passionate about green energy and climate change, so I am doing things
:28:03. > :28:09.on that front in terms of business non-governmental organisations,
:28:09. > :28:09.on that front in terms of business I am doing a column for the Guardian
:28:09. > :28:14.on Mondays. You obviously get a I am doing a column for the Guardian
:28:14. > :28:21.of material from the Sunday Politics to write about. Have you embarked on
:28:21. > :28:25.political rehabilitation? It was clear from the point of view of
:28:25. > :28:29.political rehabilitation? It was George when I was sentenced, he
:28:29. > :28:33.rehabilitating you, because I had not offended for ten years, it was
:28:33. > :28:39.actually about stopping people like you, Andrew, Ron doing the same
:28:39. > :28:45.thing. It was a deterrent effect for the public. That is I think why
:28:45. > :28:47.thing. It was a deterrent effect for prosecution was brought. I had not
:28:47. > :29:18.offended for ten years on this, rehabilitate yourself in the public?
:29:18. > :29:22.coalition to the bitter end? Or should they re-establish their own
:29:22. > :29:27.identity? My view is that the Coalition agreement is for the whole
:29:27. > :29:34.Parliament, and the Lib Dems are going to stay, and should stay. What
:29:34. > :29:40.would be a good result for the Lib Dems in 2015? The loss of ten, 15
:29:40. > :29:44.seats? I think it will be an interesting election because I think
:29:44. > :29:48.you will have essentially three party leaders, all of whom are
:29:48. > :29:52.unpopular. It is almost unprecedented that they have
:29:52. > :29:59.negative ratings so it will be a battle between the walking wounded.
:29:59. > :30:05.In those circumstances, in my view, the Lib Dems can come out very
:30:05. > :30:13.well. But you will lose seats, won't you? It is far too early to say. If
:30:13. > :30:17.the Liberal Democrats do badly in next year's European elections, you
:30:17. > :30:24.could come fourth on fifth behind the Greens. Will Nick Clegg's
:30:24. > :30:31.leadership be in jeopardy? I've been in countless cycles where we've had
:30:31. > :30:35.very low poll ratings. The normal pickup to the subsequent general
:30:36. > :30:40.election on average has been 10 percentage points. So he's not in
:30:40. > :30:43.jeopardy? I think Nick will be there at the next general election. I
:30:44. > :30:48.think he'll lead the party into the next general election. I expect
:30:48. > :30:53.we'll do much better than most people think. If we are heading for
:30:53. > :30:57.another hung Parliament, which is what the Liberal Democrats want.
:30:57. > :31:01.Let's be honest, you'd rather be in coalition with the Labour Party than
:31:01. > :31:06.have a repeat of the Conservatives? One of the key things I sawed to
:31:06. > :31:10.colleagues, whatever your personal preference, I used to be a Labour
:31:10. > :31:15.Party member, you can derive from that I'm on the left of centre of
:31:15. > :31:19.the party. I always said to my colleagues in the party, it is
:31:19. > :31:21.absolutely colleagues in the party, it is
:31:21. > :31:24.the we are in politics because we are Liberal Democrats, not because
:31:24. > :31:29.we are either Conservatives or second best Labour. If you don't
:31:29. > :31:34.take that view, you don't have any bargaining position when it comes to
:31:34. > :31:38.coalition. You have to be able, genuinely, to do a coalition with
:31:38. > :31:42.either of the other parties. I understand that, but you'd prefer
:31:42. > :31:46.Labour? Your personal preference really should not come into this. It
:31:46. > :31:51.is about making sure you get the best possible deal for the things
:31:51. > :31:56.that your voters have voted for. If you get that with one party rather
:31:56. > :32:00.than another, that's fine. You stand up for Liberal Democrat values, not
:32:00. > :32:05.for Conservative or Labour second best values. You said you're keeping
:32:05. > :32:12.up your interest in energy matters. Is Ed Miliband right to promise a
:32:12. > :32:18.temporary price freeze? There's been pop ewe louse posturing. It is not a
:32:18. > :32:23.sensible policy. It was tried in California in 2,000 and 2001 which
:32:23. > :32:28.led to blackouts. We had the Prime Minister promising we should sift
:32:28. > :32:32.everybody automatically to the lowest possible tariff. So
:32:32. > :32:38.unfortunately we're at the stage in the political cycle where we are
:32:38. > :32:43.getting clap trap. You're against the freeze? It is a bad idea when we
:32:43. > :32:47.are trying to encourage investment. When the market can give us some of
:32:47. > :32:51.the lowest gas and electricity prices in Europe. Britain has
:32:51. > :32:54.son-in-law of the lowest? Not our base price? The other European Ian
:32:54. > :32:59.prices are only higher because they put a lot more taxes on to it? Our
:32:59. > :33:04.base energy prices are among the highest in Europe? No, if you look
:33:04. > :33:06.at EU comparisons in what goes out to people's households. That's after
:33:06. > :33:11.all the taxes have been put on them? to people's households. That's after
:33:11. > :33:14.. The Conservatives are claiming there are
:33:14. > :35:38.next for the badger cull ? The Government acknowledges the plant is
:35:38. > :35:43.not going according to plan. The badgers have moved the goalposts.
:35:44. > :35:46.And for the next 20 minutes I am joined by the Plymouth Conservative
:35:46. > :35:51.MP Oliver Colvile and label a councillor Kate Wheller from Dorset.
:35:51. > :35:58.This week we look at potholes. Potholes figures obtained by us show
:35:58. > :36:04.nearly 2000 people have made claims for damage caused I potholes in the
:36:04. > :36:07.last year. In death and there were 8000 claims and the regional cost
:36:07. > :36:12.runs into tens of thousands of pounds. This is something I know you
:36:12. > :36:15.feel strongly about, Oliver, and to prove it, we have a photo of you
:36:15. > :36:21.with your friend from the highways authority assessing one particular
:36:21. > :36:25.example. One in ten drivers has now told the AA they have had an
:36:25. > :36:30.accident or damaged their car because of a pothole and now they
:36:30. > :36:36.can claim. The Chancellor announced there would be more money given to
:36:36. > :36:42.local authorities, and I have been campaigning with pothole Peter of
:36:42. > :36:48.the Herald and it has been a great success. I want people to e—mail me
:36:48. > :36:53.and tell me where potholes are and I will write to the council. So you
:36:53. > :36:58.blame the council, not the Government? The money is there but
:36:58. > :37:02.the councils are not using it? The local authorities can bid for money
:37:02. > :37:12.from the gunmen to get this sorted out but we need to do this. —— can
:37:12. > :37:16.bid for money from the Government. I am worried that in six months it
:37:16. > :37:19.will be back to square one and what we really should be doing is
:37:19. > :37:25.resurfacing all those roads. There is money for that? There is not. You
:37:25. > :37:33.what working with Dorset council. Is this something that can be repaired
:37:33. > :37:39.more quickly, could councils be asking for more money? We are asking
:37:39. > :37:44.for money but whether it comes or not is another matter. But is it
:37:44. > :37:49.that we are able to fix these potholes? Why are we not doing it?
:37:49. > :37:56.Funding. Oliver says there is money for this. The Department for
:37:56. > :38:00.Transport spokesman said we have recently announced £12 billion for
:38:00. > :38:02.road maintenance and that would prepare about 90 million potholes.
:38:02. > :38:09.So they are claiming there is enough money. And I would argue we would
:38:09. > :38:15.have as much as we can implement but it will have to be spread through
:38:15. > :38:19.the country. OK. We have to move on. Pothole repair is of course just one
:38:19. > :38:23.of many demands on council budgets. We have talked a lot lately about
:38:23. > :38:26.warnings those budgets are about to reach breaking point especially in
:38:26. > :38:32.the countryside. Rowell MPs say there councils only get half the
:38:32. > :38:40.Government funding given to open ones. —— rural MPs. They took it to
:38:40. > :38:46.Government a game and once again the Government failed to be convinced by
:38:47. > :38:51.their argument. And once again, they failed to give up. We will mobilise
:38:51. > :38:56.the rural yeomanry to make sure we get our fair share of funding. What
:38:56. > :39:01.we are asking for is one tenth of 1% of the total budget to be shifted
:39:01. > :39:08.towards the rural macro authorities. His that too much to ask of this
:39:08. > :39:12.Government? I certainly do not think it is. In a moment we will discuss
:39:12. > :39:18.what the funding row might mean for everything from social workers to
:39:18. > :39:21.buses but does this report. —— at first this report.
:39:21. > :39:26.It is tough keeping services going with less money. In West Somerset
:39:26. > :39:30.the council is losing £100,000 a year and is facing bankruptcy. It is
:39:30. > :39:33.simply that per head of population of West Somerset, we are not getting
:39:33. > :39:38.enough income to run the services that the people deserve. There have
:39:38. > :39:43.been fears other authorities could be heading in the same direction.
:39:43. > :39:49.These small district and borough councils are facing a serious
:39:49. > :39:54.threat. And I urge the ministers to take it as seriously as it deserves.
:39:54. > :39:57.But there's little sympathy at the top. Three years ago, there were
:39:57. > :40:02.predictions of the end of local government as we knew it, of end of
:40:02. > :40:06.services. That has proved to be complete tosh. Torbay Council could
:40:06. > :40:12.have to cut an estimated £20 million from its spending over the next two
:40:12. > :40:15.years. In the past, the mayor suggested merging with other
:40:15. > :40:20.councils in Devon to form one large super—authority to save money. This
:40:20. > :40:23.week it has been reported that the mayor is so concerned about the
:40:23. > :40:29.financial situation here that he has asked the leader of Devon County
:40:29. > :40:33.Council to take Torbay Council over. But rural councils think it is even
:40:33. > :40:35.tougher for them, arguing it costs more to deliver services across
:40:35. > :40:39.large areas with small populations, and after a long—running campaign
:40:39. > :40:42.for a fairer share of the funding cake, the region's MPs began to feel
:40:42. > :40:51.like their concerns were being listened to. Is the minister
:40:51. > :40:54.confirming to MPs representing rural areas is that he is open for further
:40:54. > :41:00.discussion about the perceived disparity between rural and urban
:41:00. > :41:04.funding? Because I would want to hear from him a clarification that
:41:04. > :41:08.he is up for such discussions if he is inviting me to join him in the
:41:08. > :41:13.voting lobbies this evening. As I said in the debate on Monday, I have
:41:13. > :41:16.an open door policy. I am happy to continue that discussion. But during
:41:16. > :41:21.the conference season, these hopes seem to be dashed. Local councils in
:41:21. > :41:26.rural areas say they are being short—changed compared to urban
:41:26. > :41:30.areas, and vice versa. We cannot magic money which is not there. As
:41:30. > :41:35.Liam Byrne famously said to David Laws, there is no money left. I
:41:35. > :41:38.think we have been fair between urban areas and rural areas but of
:41:38. > :41:43.course all local councils are having to do more. A lot of your MPs think
:41:43. > :41:46.you are listening and think you might actually consider reforming
:41:46. > :41:50.that funding system. So they will be disappointed, then? We have made
:41:50. > :41:53.changes to the funding system. To be fair, Government MPs have been
:41:53. > :41:57.saying you have broadened the divide, it has got worse. I do not
:41:57. > :42:00.accept that. Often city areas are more dependent on grant than on
:42:00. > :42:05.council tax. Grant necessarily has been reduced. Politicians in the
:42:05. > :42:08.South West are refusing to give up but with a BBC poll this week
:42:09. > :42:12.suggesting 40% of people have not noticed the budget cuts it could be
:42:12. > :42:26.even harder for the rural funding campaigners to win their argument.
:42:26. > :42:29.Joining us to discuss this we have representatives of town and country.
:42:29. > :42:35.In London we have Andrew Carter from Centre for Cities and in the studio
:42:35. > :42:43.Dan Bates from the Rural Services Network. Welcome. Dan, Eric Pickles,
:42:43. > :42:47.the Secretary of State for local governments, said so far none of the
:42:47. > :42:50.figures he has heard of Canon convince him that rural areas need
:42:50. > :42:58.more money. He says these arguments have proved to be complete tosh. If
:42:58. > :43:04.you take the figures for 2013—14, you find that 50% gap is what there
:43:04. > :43:08.is between rural and urban areas. There is half as much funding a game
:43:08. > :43:15.for every person in an urban area than in a rural area. That
:43:15. > :43:21.translates into rural residents paying more per head in council tax
:43:21. > :43:27.to get less services. So if you are in rural macro person you pay £85
:43:27. > :43:31.more to get less services, because of the disparity. So where you
:43:31. > :43:40.live. Andrew, but does not sound fair. £85 per head more in rural
:43:40. > :43:46.areas and yet you get less services? Much of the money goes on
:43:46. > :43:49.a needs basis. In our urban areas the need is that much greater, so
:43:49. > :43:54.therefore they get more money because the need... The need for
:43:54. > :43:59.what is greater? What sort of things? If you look at the areas
:43:59. > :44:03.with the highest rates of deprivation across a number of
:44:03. > :44:08.issues, 80% of those neighbourhoods, the worst neighbourhoods in the UK,
:44:08. > :44:14.are in our urban areas. They have multiple needs. What sort of needs?
:44:14. > :44:17.Clearly up graffiti... ? We are addressing issues around
:44:17. > :44:23.unemployment, low incomes, poorer services, crime on those sort of
:44:23. > :44:29.social issues. That is where the money from Government is allocated.
:44:29. > :44:34.Andrew, I will just that to Dan. Do you accept that argument is that
:44:34. > :44:38.they do need more money? I agree urban areas have conflict issues but
:44:38. > :44:43.do they need 50% more per head in funding? The other point we make is
:44:43. > :44:49.about the cost of providing those services. Your first article was on
:44:49. > :44:55.potholes. If you can imagine potholes in areas as expansive as
:44:55. > :44:59.Devon, compared with Plymouth, the cost of repairing those potholes in
:44:59. > :45:05.Devon would be that much more, yet they are getting 50% less per head
:45:05. > :45:14.than the urban areas in funding and that is not fair. Dan says it is not
:45:14. > :45:17.fair. I am talking about my own constituency but the big Robin has
:45:17. > :45:28.been inheriting this awful deficit which we are trying to sort out.
:45:28. > :45:32.# Deficit. Local authorities need to be talking to one another and maybe
:45:32. > :45:36.the health service as well and the police, about how they can actually
:45:36. > :45:40.share common backroom staff as well, for instance, for things like
:45:40. > :45:44.human resources and things like that. Secondly, I do think there is
:45:44. > :45:48.a role for the Government to review what they are asking local
:45:48. > :45:52.authorities to do. I want to make sure the money will be spent on my
:45:52. > :46:07.potholes, doing the drains, those kind of things. Is unsatisfied? ——
:46:07. > :46:11.is Dan Bates satisfied? Not really. If you start from a base that is 50%
:46:11. > :46:15.lower per head and the cuts that are coming are pretty big, the
:46:15. > :46:21.Government has said we will make equal cuts now so those rural
:46:21. > :46:29.authorities starting on a lower base are taking more cuts. So you think
:46:29. > :46:35.that will hit rural areas harder? It is that much harder in rural areas.
:46:35. > :46:37.Kate, 40% of people, according to a BBC poll, said they have not
:46:37. > :46:41.actually noticed any cuts to services and some people think
:46:41. > :46:44.council services have actually improved. In which case the
:46:44. > :46:50.Government is right, isn't it? They can make these cuts and people have
:46:50. > :46:54.not noticed. That is a testament to how hard the local councils have
:46:54. > :46:59.been working. It has nothing to do with the swingeing cuts that the
:47:00. > :47:05.Government are continuing to impose upon us. And this idea that this is
:47:05. > :47:11.all the cause of the previous Government, people are not stupid.
:47:11. > :47:15.He pulled now what caused the recession. What caused the recession
:47:15. > :47:22.was the greed of bankers, and the Scotmid have done nothing to address
:47:22. > :47:28.that situation at all. —— the Government. Ordinary people are
:47:28. > :47:35.paying for that now. Services they need just not going to be provided.
:47:35. > :47:40.They cannot be provided on less and less money. Do you think there are
:47:40. > :47:44.too many votes in the cities, that we are trying to target city
:47:44. > :47:48.voters? Is that what is happening here? I do not think so. The
:47:48. > :47:54.politics is more diverse. I would like to come back to this point.
:47:54. > :47:57.This issue about scale and size. You talked about some of the smaller
:47:57. > :48:02.rural councils but clearly the issue is that some of these councils are
:48:02. > :48:06.quite small. If you go to urban districts, some smaller ones, they
:48:06. > :48:11.are suffering and struggling with exactly the same issues. So should
:48:11. > :48:18.all councils be bigger, so you can book by and... ? Possibly. I do not
:48:18. > :48:22.know whether we are saying they should all be bigger but what we
:48:22. > :48:25.have seen in different parts of the country, urban to urban, rural to
:48:25. > :48:31.rural, councils coming together to think about how they can deliver
:48:31. > :48:35.more effectively. Refit, Oliver, have you any sympathy for York
:48:35. > :48:38.colleagues like Neil Parish and Geoffrey Cox, they feel so
:48:38. > :48:47.passionate about this and yet all the mud are not listening to them? I
:48:47. > :48:49.have enormous sympathy but there are local authorities, certainly in
:48:49. > :48:54.London, where they have been able not only to make those reductions
:48:54. > :48:57.but also to cut the council tax, and that is something that is very
:48:57. > :49:02.important. Labour is talking all the time about the cost of living and we
:49:02. > :49:08.need to talk about keeping the council tax down. Thank you.
:49:08. > :49:11.This week, the Government revealed its trial badger cull in West
:49:11. > :49:14.Somerset did not meet the target for the number of badges its own
:49:14. > :49:18.scientists say needed to be killed for the chance of tackling the
:49:18. > :49:22.disease in cattle. Welfare groups say the Cole has failed to meet any
:49:22. > :49:27.of its aims but ministers insist they are happy with the way the
:49:27. > :49:32.trial was carried out. At the end of August, protesters
:49:32. > :49:36.were angry as the six—week badger cull kicked off in West Somerset but
:49:36. > :49:39.halfway through, unbeknown to us, alarm bells started to ring. One
:49:40. > :49:47.former DEFRA worker from Cornwall was called up out of the blue and
:49:47. > :49:51.asked to provide ten more shooters. Clearly the focal was an act of
:49:52. > :49:57.desperation. If were going well, why did they phone? —— the phone call
:49:57. > :50:02.was an act of desperation. It is under resourced. The resources
:50:02. > :50:09.needed were immense. The Government set article 70% of badges in West
:50:10. > :50:17.Somerset during the six—week trial. —— set out to kill. In fact, they
:50:17. > :50:20.have only killed 59%. So why is 70% the magic number? Many experts
:50:20. > :50:27.believe killing a high number of badges over 70% is crucial because
:50:27. > :50:30.the trial showed that a low kill rate will actually increase TB
:50:30. > :50:35.infection in cattle, as fleeing badgers can widely spread the
:50:35. > :50:42.disease. 850 badgers have so far been shot, at a revised estimate of
:50:42. > :50:50.1450 but originally, DEFRA have all there were 2400 badgers in the West
:50:50. > :50:57.Somerset area. It would be unusual for badger populations to change to
:50:57. > :51:02.such a degree. There are concerns that there has been interference.
:51:02. > :51:08.Interference with the methods used to count badgers, which could help
:51:08. > :51:15.to explain the difference between the estimates for now and last
:51:15. > :51:18.October. It is embarrassing for the Government. Earlier this week on BBC
:51:18. > :51:23.Sport light, the environment secretary loaned the badgers. The
:51:23. > :51:27.badgers have moved the goalposts. You are dealing with a wild animal.
:51:27. > :51:35.Those naughty badgers! They are playing with numbers. It appears
:51:35. > :51:38.this year the numbers of badgers are too low. Last year the Government
:51:38. > :51:44.said there were too many. The plug was pulled just before the 2012
:51:44. > :51:50.badger cull. Do you remember all the fuss last year? The controversial
:51:50. > :51:54.cull of badgers has been called off... And does this sound
:51:55. > :51:59.familiar? There was some doubt about whether enough badgers could be
:51:59. > :52:03.killed in the pilot areas before December. The companies set up to go
:52:03. > :52:08.ahead with the badger cull had doubts they would be able to
:52:08. > :52:12.eradicate 70% in the necessary time. Those badgers, they are at it again.
:52:12. > :52:19.Some MPs said the Government may have made a mistake facing so much
:52:19. > :52:21.emphasis on numbers. It will always be difficult to estimate wild
:52:21. > :52:29.animals as to how many are there but what I will repeat, and what I will
:52:29. > :52:35.die in a ditch over, is that these badgers are diseased and giving
:52:35. > :52:41.these diseases to the cattle. A farm in Devon. Some of the cattle here
:52:41. > :52:44.have had TB in the past. DEFRA said last year 38,000 cattle were killed
:52:44. > :52:52.in Britain. The company running the badger cull has just been granted a
:52:52. > :52:59.three—week exception. —— extension. The farmer here hope is that he can
:52:59. > :53:01.have clean badgers and cattle living side—by—side.
:53:01. > :53:05.Was Owen Paterson right to say that the badgers have moved the
:53:05. > :53:14.goalposts? Be surprised that wild animals do not do as they're told is
:53:14. > :53:19.amazing, isn't it? I am in support of anything that is helping the
:53:19. > :53:26.British farming industry but this badger cull has been so badly
:53:26. > :53:29.managed. It has been based on inaccurate data. How on earth can
:53:29. > :53:33.they expect meaningful results from something that is just farcical? So
:53:33. > :53:42.Owen Paterson calling it a success too would disagree with? Yes. Has
:53:42. > :53:48.this been a success? It is a difficult story. I am told that the
:53:48. > :53:55.lungs of badgers come like sponge. It is incredibly painful. So to
:53:55. > :54:01.identify badgers that are ill to kill them is very difficult. Why
:54:01. > :54:05.don't you vaccinate? It takes a long time and you have to do it on an
:54:05. > :54:09.annual basis so you have to catch them time and time again. The
:54:09. > :54:14.problem is, do we want to make sure that our cattle is not going to be
:54:14. > :54:18.diseased with TB? Are you going to eat a steak which has got TB in it?
:54:18. > :54:22.Lets move back to Owen Paterson calling this a success. The thing
:54:22. > :54:26.is, you have not killed as many badgers as you set out to do. You
:54:26. > :54:30.underestimated the number of badgers in the first place. Now you are
:54:30. > :54:37.having to extend the badger cull. How is that a success? We have
:54:37. > :54:42.actually made quite a lot of mad of progress on it.
:54:42. > :54:48.# Quite a lot of progress. We are going to make sure it does not
:54:48. > :54:52.continue to spread. How on earth will you manage to roll this out
:54:52. > :54:56.across other areas of the country when you could not make a success of
:54:56. > :55:01.this tiny controlled area? It does not bode well, does it, for a
:55:01. > :55:07.nationwide project? When you cannot cope with a tiny area. It is a very
:55:07. > :55:14.difficult area in which to actually deal with because we are very rural.
:55:14. > :55:28.Are you surprised that badgers are in a oral area? ! Not at all. ——
:55:28. > :55:33.rural area. We need to see what has happened during the course of the
:55:33. > :55:38.pilot scheme. I would love to share your confidence in this. It is
:55:38. > :55:45.interesting that with the increase in badgers we have seen a deep
:55:45. > :55:52.crease in hedgehogs. —— at the crease. Unfortunately we have
:55:52. > :55:59.reached the end of that segment. It is time for a regular round—up of
:55:59. > :56:03.the political week in 60 Seconds. A bitter row erupted over plans for
:56:03. > :56:10.1500 homes on the outskirts of Truro, the city council stepping up
:56:10. > :56:14.its efforts to block them. We want to see affordable housing in Truro,
:56:15. > :56:18.investment, not on greenfields. Taunton MP Jeremy Brown lost his job
:56:18. > :56:26.as Home Office minister, with MPs Dan Rogerson and George Eustace both
:56:26. > :56:32.getting jobs at DEFRA. So Cornwall now has two Government MPs.
:56:32. > :56:35.Questions about nuclear safety at Devonport were raised by Alison
:56:35. > :56:39.Seabeck, who held onto her job as Shadow Defence Minister. What we
:56:39. > :56:42.need to understand now is why the processes went wrong, what the MoD
:56:42. > :56:47.have done to ensure that further failsafes are in place.
:56:47. > :56:51.Plymouth Council has threatened to begin charging for evening parking
:56:51. > :56:58.on the city's streets. Teignbridge councillors pulled the
:56:58. > :56:59.plug on funding 17 public loos. I am completely mystified as to why this
:56:59. > :57:13.decision was taken. Let's look at the issue of parking.
:57:13. > :57:18.Plymouth to introduce evening parking charges. It is tempting for
:57:18. > :57:24.cash—strapped councils to start increasing parking charges. Is this
:57:24. > :57:28.happening in Dorset? I can only speak for Weymouth and Portland. We
:57:28. > :57:34.are about to remove overnight parking charges. Would you like to
:57:34. > :57:38.see them follow suit in Plymouth? Absolutely. A lot of people come to
:57:38. > :57:44.the city centre to use the theatre and pubs. We need to make sure
:57:44. > :57:51.people are encouraged to come here. You cannot have it with ways. It is
:57:51. > :57:56.an issue to get people to come and use the city centre, deduce all the
:57:56. > :58:01.facilities we have. I have to stop you because sadly that is the Sunday
:58:01. > :58:08.Politics in the South West. Thank you to my guests, Oliver and Kate.
:58:08. > :58:10.The programme is you to my guests, Oliver and Kate.
:58:10. > :58:13.and these tactics were plain wrong. That is all we have time for. Back
:58:13. > :58:27.ministerial team this week with That is all we have time for. Back
:58:27. > :58:32.commentators calling it the purge of the Blairites, but one poor lamb who
:58:32. > :58:37.fell victim to this perch was Diane Abbott, not somebody who worshipped
:58:37. > :58:41.at the altar of Tony Blair. Life on the backbenches means she can pursue
:58:41. > :58:48.other interests such as attending the Cheltenham literary Festival,
:58:48. > :58:52.and where she joins us now. Welcome. Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He
:58:52. > :58:59.think the thing that did it for Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He
:58:59. > :59:05.was me coming out on Syria. This was Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He
:59:06. > :59:10.a purge of the Blairites, how did you become collateral damage? I
:59:10. > :59:12.a purge of the Blairites, how did no idea but the fact that I was
:59:12. > :59:15.a purge of the Blairites, how did one member of the front bench to go
:59:15. > :59:22.public about my concerns on Syria probably tipped my enemies in the
:59:22. > :59:26.party machinery over the edge. But he went your way on Syria, in the
:59:26. > :59:33.end he agreed with your line on Syria so why would that be for
:59:34. > :59:37.dismissal? I agree with you - you're fired. Because I actually spoke
:59:37. > :59:40.dismissal? I agree with you - you're and it was the fact that I spoke up,
:59:40. > :59:49.which was like a pebble falling and it was the fact that I spoke up,
:59:49. > :59:56.forest or something. I am glad I spoke up on Syria. He doesn't like
:59:56. > :00:12.people around them than who are outspoken, who speak their minds? I
:00:12. > :00:15.think he's convinced he needs people who read from the scripts. People
:00:15. > :00:21.increasingly upset that even though who read from the scripts. People
:00:22. > :00:28.I was speaking party policy, I was reading from the script. Since Mr
:00:28. > :00:34.Miliband bid you farewell, you've said he's doing his best. Is his
:00:34. > :00:39.best good enough? I am sure it will be. I've always said the Labour
:00:39. > :00:44.Party chose the right Miliband. be. I've always said the Labour
:00:44. > :00:50.will remain loyal to him on the backbenches. You're going to be
:00:50. > :00:55.loyal? However, I want to join in the debate. You're going to be
:00:55. > :00:59.loyal? Absolutely. I was loyal both in public and private when others
:00:59. > :01:05.were bitching about him behind the from the backbenches, I hope to
:01:06. > :01:08.were bitching about him behind the involved in the debate particularly
:01:08. > :01:12.around nick policy. Et's see how loyal you are. You must be happy
:01:12. > :01:20.with all this new tough talk on welfare and free schools? Well,
:01:21. > :01:24.with all this new tough talk on think both Rachel and Tristram are
:01:24. > :01:29.very talented. We're going to have to see how this all plays out. The
:01:29. > :01:33.issue of free schools, they are to see how this all plays out. The
:01:33. > :01:35.thing. But diminishing the role to see how this all plays out. The
:01:35. > :01:43.local authorities is another. There need strong local authorities. I'm
:01:43. > :01:45.local authorities is another. There sure Tristram will be aware of that.
:01:45. > :01:51.As for welfare, I'm sure Rachel knows some of the cuts the Tories
:01:51. > :01:56.have made have been counter prod ublingtive in -- productive in terms
:01:56. > :01:58.of spending. You wouldn't call that your full-hearted endorsement, would
:01:58. > :02:06.you? What are you on, and lieu? your full-hearted endorsement, would
:02:06. > :02:11.haven't seen the detail of Rachel's new position. You have to wait and
:02:11. > :02:15.see the detail. It is in the papers. You haven't stopped reading the
:02:16. > :02:21.papers. It was the Observer. When will you announce you're running for
:02:21. > :02:26.Mayor of London? I have no plans to announce that I'm running for Mayor
:02:26. > :02:26.Mayor of London? I have no plans to of London. No plans. That's what
:02:26. > :02:30.Michael his I will Tyne used to of London. No plans. That's what
:02:30. > :02:35.me. He had no plans to run against Margaret Thatcher. Are these the
:02:35. > :02:42.same kind of plans you have? I know. No, no. I have no plans. You know
:02:42. > :02:52.going for it. Everybody knows you're going for it. Just fess up to your
:02:52. > :02:58.old mate! ! I have no plans to run. If you did run, who would be, what
:02:58. > :03:07.would be your biggest threat other than yourself? I think there's a lot
:03:08. > :03:16.of very talented candidates, David They are all talented. I would have
:03:16. > :03:21.to weigh up the field. What do you think your chances would be of
:03:21. > :03:28.getting the taxi drivers' vote? Well, you know, Andrew, some of
:03:28. > :03:32.getting the taxi drivers' vote? most loyal viewers of This Week
:03:32. > :03:35.getting the taxi drivers' vote? were taxi drivers and their wives.
:03:35. > :03:39.I'm not frightened of reaching out to middle England. You will find if
:03:39. > :03:46.you walk around London sub usual ya, they all know me and they all love
:03:46. > :03:50.This Week. Love This Week. I thought you were going to say they all love
:03:50. > :03:55.you. One person who loves you, is Michael Portillo. He wasn't a happy
:03:55. > :04:01.chappie on Thursday night. You can't see it but you can hear. This is
:04:01. > :04:07.what he said. I was disappointed for her. She had decided to leave this
:04:07. > :04:12.something else in politics. She wanted to do something serious.
:04:12. > :04:14.something else in politics. She had taken what appeared to be a
:04:14. > :04:16.something else in politics. She position but taken it extremely
:04:16. > :04:23.serious and was committed to the issues. I'm quite disappointed for
:04:23. > :04:29.her. Why would Ed Miliband do such a thing. You just mentioned about
:04:29. > :04:38.London mayor, did Diane not ask thing. You just mentioned about
:04:38. > :04:40.Someone who's an eminent person thing. You just mentioned about
:04:40. > :04:44.this programme, I don't know how he could do that. I think Michael's
:04:44. > :04:51.missing you. Are you free this Thursday night? Make him a happy
:04:51. > :04:55.man, come back to the fold. I think I may be free this Thursday night.
:04:55. > :05:00.So, if he'll have me, I'll be there. My people will speak to your people.
:05:00. > :05:04.We'll get it sorted out. Diane, watch that big vase behind you,
:05:05. > :05:11.you're not insured for. That thanks Does she have a chance of being
:05:11. > :05:13.Mayor of London? She's very well known as Michael pointed out. That
:05:13. > :05:20.is important. People who are outside known as Michael pointed out. That
:05:20. > :05:21.the party fold have traditionally done well in the mayoral election.
:05:22. > :05:27.The job of being a London mayor done well in the mayoral election.
:05:27. > :05:31.running an economy the size of a nation. It is a very serious job.
:05:31. > :05:39.There may be problems with her running? That was a transparent
:05:39. > :05:43.There may be problems with her for it. She's potentially a very
:05:43. > :05:52.compelling Coll ticks. People have left-winger but she's quite tough
:05:53. > :06:00.and conservative. Michael Gove said he had fallen in love with Diane
:06:00. > :06:07.which That's one vote he has. What do you think? I thing about Diane
:06:07. > :06:11.Abbott is she has a fantastic way of connecting. She has a really good
:06:11. > :06:17.way of connecting wi people. She would be a very strong candidate in
:06:17. > :06:23.candidate. It will probably be a Labour win next time. Depends, if
:06:23. > :06:29.Labour wins the 2015 election it may be more difficult. There's a danger
:06:29. > :06:31.for Labour that Diane is the big personality liked by the party
:06:31. > :06:38.primary but isn't necessarily a personality liked by the party
:06:38. > :06:43.in come the London general election? That's true. London is traditionally
:06:43. > :06:49.a Labour city. But Boris managed to win as an outsider. There are big
:06:49. > :06:53.dangers for Labour with that. I think, as I said before, somebody
:06:53. > :07:00.who seems a bit independent from their own party machinery tend to do
:07:00. > :07:06.We've only had mayors so far that were independent? Indeed. And how
:07:06. > :07:10.Not that far behind bar Is Johnson. well Ken Livingstone did last time.
:07:10. > :07:12.Not that far behind bar Is Johnson. He was and is much more left-wing
:07:12. > :07:21.than Diane Abbott. Diane didn't He was and is much more left-wing
:07:21. > :07:29.stray on Syria, it was immigration. Why was Jeremy brown replaced by
:07:29. > :07:34.This is very much to do with Clegg deciding he has to go back to those
:07:34. > :07:38.people who abandoned the Liberal Democrats the day they went into
:07:38. > :07:43.coalition with the Conservatives really, and convince them there
:07:43. > :07:47.coalition with the Conservatives some holy areas of policy, sacred
:07:47. > :07:49.areas which they will defend. That includes civil liberties. In the
:07:49. > :07:52.Home Office, that incident with includes civil liberties. In the
:07:52. > :07:58.immigration vans went down very badly across the whole nation. Went
:07:58. > :08:03.down particularly badly with Liberal Democrats and voters. In the Home
:08:03. > :08:13.somebody there to put a shield on purpose behind it. And Nick Clegg
:08:13. > :08:18.has won the argument against the left, Vince Cable on the economy,
:08:18. > :08:22.away day in July, briefings say DrCable's been put in his box. He's
:08:23. > :08:27.won the argument on economic policy against the left. When it comes
:08:27. > :08:29.won the argument on economic policy the touchstone issue in the Home
:08:29. > :08:33.Office, he wants to shore up that vote on the left. And please The
:08:33. > :08:39.Guardian. This is important for something else going on which is
:08:39. > :08:44.that Nick Clegg has to keep his parliamentary party happy. That
:08:44. > :08:48.involves giving them ministerial jobs. A lot of Liberal Democrats
:08:48. > :08:59.losing their jobs, Michael Moore, because vacancies have to be created
:08:59. > :09:07.for number people to come in. By Liberal Democrat MPs will have been
:09:07. > :09:13.on the payroll. It is effective party management. I want to move on
:09:13. > :09:15.to press regulation. Brian Leveson's famous report, appeared before the
:09:15. > :09:20.parliamentary select committee. famous report, appeared before the
:09:20. > :09:32.will run you a clip from Connor politicians got involved in this. We
:09:32. > :09:37.moved away from the press 300 years ago. The centr commitment is Lord
:09:37. > :09:45.Leveson wanted a system the press self-regulation. This is state
:09:45. > :09:51.involvement which I worry about profoundly. He sits on the media
:09:51. > :09:56.interviews and investigations into the media. Chris Huhne said earlier
:09:56. > :10:01.he thought all the newspapers would sign up to the Government-backed
:10:01. > :10:08.Royal Charter. I think he's totally should. But he did say they would. I
:10:08. > :10:13.think he's wrong. They won't sign up. All the mood music when that
:10:13. > :10:20.Royal Charter was agreed on Friday was they would not sign up. It is
:10:20. > :10:22.Maria Miller, is essentially saying to the press industry, if you don't
:10:22. > :10:25.sign up, the Royal charter will to the press industry, if you don't
:10:25. > :10:31.ahead. I cannot control the Labour to the press industry, if you don't
:10:31. > :10:33.industry is wind the clock back to the press industry, if you don't
:10:33. > :10:41.what they are calling the Puttnam stage. That was earlier this year,
:10:41. > :10:45.Lord Puttnam was tack amendments which would introduce statutory
:10:45. > :10:55.regulation. Maria Miller says you statutory legislation but if you
:10:55. > :11:02.don't sign up to this, it will be a lot worse. Will that work? Playing
:11:02. > :11:06.the good cop, bad cop routine? Will that pressurise everyone to sign up.
:11:06. > :11:11.Lots of people are saying this will be a club with no members. It won't
:11:11. > :11:17.work. As Nick and I broke the story last week that the Government was
:11:17. > :11:21.going to reject the newspaper-backed one, I'm certain that the newspapers
:11:21. > :11:28.now, most of them maybe, not all, but most, will go the legal route
:11:29. > :11:33.and to judicial review on what the Government's proposing and will
:11:33. > :11:34.and to judicial review on what the it to strains Bowring where freedom
:11:34. > :11:42.of the press is enshrined. They it to strains Bowring where freedom
:11:42. > :11:45.fight this? There is enough fury amongst Fleet Street to result in
:11:45. > :11:50.that. The big political question going forward is which of the party
:11:50. > :11:53.leaders does the press blame the most for the emergence of press
:11:53. > :11:59.regulation? The Tories are very confident they'll blame Ed Miliband
:11:59. > :12:04.the most. They'll target him before 2015. David Cameron gave us Brian
:12:04. > :12:12.Leveson. You appoint a judge who shouldn't be surprised with what you
:12:12. > :12:16.got in the Leveson report? I big chunk of press will look at David
:12:16. > :12:30.Cameron saying, you were the guy who intended what will happen. If he had
:12:30. > :12:33.have appointed Brian Leveson. If they face more punitive fines over
:12:33. > :12:38.Labour ale cases they take that they face more punitive fines over
:12:38. > :12:45.Europe. The Daily Mail and the tallest presumably will have to
:12:45. > :12:51.suspend their campaign of Britain to leave the European Convention of
:12:51. > :13:00.suspend that. We must never come out Churchill was behind it. He was
:13:00. > :13:01.indeed. But it is actually a major constitutional issue whether you
:13:01. > :13:06.regulate the press or not. There was constitutional issue whether you
:13:06. > :13:11.a lot of ill feeling that this Marie ya miller statement was snubbing out
:13:12. > :13:17.on Friday afternoon. Somebody said freedom of the press too important
:13:17. > :13:21.to sneak out on afully afternoon. The whole subject should be treated
:13:21. > :13:28.with respect. We've run out of time. I'll be back next Sunday with the
:13:28. > :13:38.Communities Secretary Eric Pickles at our usual time of 11.00am. If