:00:36. > :00:40.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Hope you enjoyed
:00:41. > :00:46.the extra hour in bed, and that you've realised it's not 12:45. It's
:00:47. > :00:48.11:45! It's getting stormy outside. But they're already battening down
:00:49. > :00:51.the hatches at Number Ten because coalition splits are back, with
:00:52. > :00:56.bust-ups over free schools and power bills. We'll speak to the Lib Dems,
:00:57. > :01:00.and ask Labour who's conning whom over energy.
:01:01. > :01:03.EU leaders have been meeting in Brussels. But how's David Cameron
:01:04. > :01:14.getting on with that plan to change our relationship with Europe? We
:01:15. > :01:17.were there to ask him. Have we got any powers back yet? DS!
:01:18. > :01:19.Foreign companies own everything from our energy companies to our
:01:20. > :01:29.railways. Does it matter who In the South West, the plan to cut
:01:30. > :01:31.mobile library services. And the wind farm opponents who say they
:01:32. > :01:36.haven't got the stronger voice as many daily journeys made by bus
:01:37. > :01:43.than by tube, so why is the planned investment in buses not keeping
:01:44. > :01:46.pace? And with me, three journalists
:01:47. > :01:49.who've bravely agreed to hunker down in the studio while Britain braces
:01:50. > :01:51.itself for massive storm winds, tweeting their political forecasts
:01:52. > :01:59.with all the accuracy of Michael Fish on hurricane watch. Helen
:02:00. > :02:02.Lewis, Janan Ganesh and Nick Watt. Now, sometimes coalition splits are
:02:03. > :02:06.over-egged, or dare we say even occasionally stage-managed. But this
:02:07. > :02:10.week, we've seen what looks like the genuine article. It turns out Nick
:02:11. > :02:13.Clegg has his doubts about the coalition's flagship free schools
:02:14. > :02:17.policy. David Cameron doesn't much like the green levies on our energy
:02:18. > :02:20.bills championed by the Lib Dems. Neither of them seems to have
:02:21. > :02:24.bothered to tell the other that they had their doubts. Who better to
:02:25. > :02:34.discuss these flare-ups than Lib Dem Deputy Leader Simon Hughes? He joins
:02:35. > :02:39.me now. Welcome. Good morning. The Lib Dems spent three years of
:02:40. > :02:42.sticking up for the coalition when times were grim. Explain to me the
:02:43. > :02:48.logic of splitting from them when times look better. We will stick
:02:49. > :02:52.with it for five years. It is working arrangement, but not
:02:53. > :02:56.surprisingly, where there right areas on which we disagree over
:02:57. > :03:00.where to go next, we will stand up. It is going to be hard enough for
:03:01. > :03:06.the Lib Dems to get any credit for the recovery, what ever it is. It
:03:07. > :03:10.will be even harder if you seem to be semidetached and picky. The
:03:11. > :03:15.coalition has led on economic policy, some of which were entirely
:03:16. > :03:20.from our stable. The one you have heard about most often, a Lib Dem
:03:21. > :03:24.initiative, was to take people on blowing comes out of tax. The
:03:25. > :03:28.recovery would not have happened, there would not have been confidence
:03:29. > :03:34.in Britain, had there not been a coalition government with us in it,
:03:35. > :03:38.making sure the same policies produced fair outcomes. We are not
:03:39. > :03:42.going to leave the credit for any growth - and there has been very
:03:43. > :03:47.good news this week. We have played a part in that, and without us, it
:03:48. > :03:51.would not have happened. Does it not underline the trust problem you
:03:52. > :03:57.have? You promised to abolish tuition fees. You oppose nuclear
:03:58. > :04:03.power, now you are cheerleading the first multi-billion pounds
:04:04. > :04:07.investment in nuclear generation. You are dying out on your enthusiasm
:04:08. > :04:12.on green levies, and now they are up for renegotiation. Why should we
:04:13. > :04:20.trust a word you say? In relation to green levies, as you well know, just
:04:21. > :04:27.under 10% is to do with helping energy and helping people. Unless
:04:28. > :04:31.there is continuing investment in renewables, we will not have the
:04:32. > :04:36.British produced energy at cheaper cost to keep those bills down in the
:04:37. > :04:46.future. At cheaper cost? Explain that to me. Off-shore energy is
:04:47. > :04:50.twice the market rate. The costs of renewables will increasingly come
:04:51. > :04:55.down. We have fantastic capacity to produce the energy and deliver lots
:04:56. > :04:59.of jobs in the process. The parts of the energy bill that may be up for
:05:00. > :05:03.renegotiation seems to be the part where we subsidise to help either
:05:04. > :05:11.poor people pay less, or where we do other things. Too insulated the
:05:12. > :05:15.homes? Are you up to putting that to general taxation? Wouldn't that be
:05:16. > :05:20.progressive? I would. It would be progressive. I would like to do for
:05:21. > :05:24.energy bills what the Chancellor has done for road traffic users,
:05:25. > :05:30.drivers, which is too fuelled motor fuel -- to freeze new to fall. That
:05:31. > :05:34.would mean there would be an immediate relief this year, not
:05:35. > :05:39.waiting for the election. So there is a deal to be done there? Yes We
:05:40. > :05:43.understand we have to take the burden off the consumer, and also
:05:44. > :05:48.deal with the energy companies, who look as if they are not paying all
:05:49. > :05:51.the tax they should be, and the regulator, which doesn't regulate
:05:52. > :05:55.quickly enough to deal with the issues coming down the track. We can
:05:56. > :05:59.toughen the regulator, and I hope that the Chancellor, in the Autumn
:06:00. > :06:03.statement, was signalled that energy companies will not be allowed to get
:06:04. > :06:11.away with not paying the taxes they should. And this deal will allow
:06:12. > :06:16.energy prices to come down? Yes How could David Laws, one of your
:06:17. > :06:21.ministers, proudly defend the record of unqualified teachers working in
:06:22. > :06:25.free schools, and then stand side-by-side with Mr Clegg, as he
:06:26. > :06:30.says he is against them? David Laws was not proudly defending the fact
:06:31. > :06:34.that it is unqualified teachers He said that some of the new,
:06:35. > :06:41.unqualified teachers in free schools are doing a superb job. But you want
:06:42. > :06:45.to get rid of them? We want to make sure that everybody coming into a
:06:46. > :06:51.free school ends up being qualified. Ends up? Goes through a process that
:06:52. > :06:55.means they have qualifications. Just as we said very clearly at the last
:06:56. > :07:01.election that the manifesto curriculum in free schools should be
:07:02. > :07:07.the same as other schools. It looks like Mr Clegg is picking a fight
:07:08. > :07:11.just for the sake of it. Mr Clegg was taught by people who didn't have
:07:12. > :07:15.teaching qualifications in one of the greatest schools in the land, if
:07:16. > :07:21.not the world. It didn't seem to do him any harm. What is the problem?
:07:22. > :07:27.If you pay to go to a school, you know what you're getting. But that
:07:28. > :07:32.is what a free school is. No, you don't pay fees. A free school is
:07:33. > :07:36.parents taking the decisions, not you, the politicians. We believe
:07:37. > :07:40.they would expect to guarantee is, firstly that the minimum curriculum
:07:41. > :07:44.taught across the country is taught in the free schools, and secondly,
:07:45. > :07:47.that the teachers there are qualified. Someone who send their
:07:48. > :07:55.kids to private schools took a decision to take -- to send their
:07:56. > :07:59.children there, even if the teachers were unqualified, because they are
:08:00. > :08:06.experts in their field. Someone who send their kids to free schools is
:08:07. > :08:11.because -- is their decision, not yours. Because some of the free
:08:12. > :08:14.schools are new, and have never been there before, parents need a
:08:15. > :08:21.guarantee that there are some basics in place, whatever sort of school.
:08:22. > :08:26.So they need you to hold their hand? It is not about holding hands, it is
:08:27. > :08:30.about having a minimum guarantee. Our party made clear at our
:08:31. > :08:35.conference that this is a priority for us. Nick Clegg reflects the view
:08:36. > :08:38.of the party, and I believe it is an entirely rational thing to do. Nick
:08:39. > :08:45.Clegg complained that the Prime Minister gave him only 30 minutes
:08:46. > :08:50.notice on the Prime Minister Buzz 's U-turn on green levies. That is
:08:51. > :08:55.almost as little time as Nick Clegg gave the Prime Minister on his
:08:56. > :09:03.U-turn on free schools. Aren't you supposed to be partners? Green
:09:04. > :09:06.levies were under discussion in the ministerial group before Wednesday,
:09:07. > :09:11.because we identified this as an issue. We do that in a practical
:09:12. > :09:18.way. Sometimes there is only half an hour's notice. We had even less than
:09:19. > :09:23.half an hour this morning! Simon Hughes, thank you.
:09:24. > :09:29.So the price of energy is the big battle ground in politics at the
:09:30. > :09:33.moment. 72% of people say that high bills will influence the way they
:09:34. > :09:37.vote at the next election. Ed Miliband has promised a price freeze
:09:38. > :09:44.after the next election, but will the coalition turned the tables on
:09:45. > :09:52.Labour, with its proposal to roll back green levies. Caroline Flint
:09:53. > :09:59.joins us from Sheffield. It looks like the coalition will be able to
:10:00. > :10:04.take ?50 of energy bills, by removing green levies. It is quite
:10:05. > :10:07.clear that different parts of the government are running round waking
:10:08. > :10:11.up to the fact that the public feel that this government has not done
:10:12. > :10:15.enough to listen to their concerns. Last week, there was a classic case
:10:16. > :10:20.of the Prime Minister making up policy literally at the dispatch
:10:21. > :10:23.box. Let's see what they say in the autumn statement. The truth is,
:10:24. > :10:28.whatever the debate around green levies, and I have always said we
:10:29. > :10:46.should look at value for money at those green levies. Our argument is
:10:47. > :10:49.about acknowledging there is something wrong with the way the
:10:50. > :10:51.market works, and the way those companies are regulated. Behind our
:10:52. > :10:54.freeze for 20 months is a package of proposals to reform this market I
:10:55. > :10:57.understand that, but you cannot tell as the details about that. I can.
:10:58. > :10:59.You cannot give us the details about reforming the market. We are going
:11:00. > :11:04.to do three things, and I think I said this last time I was on the
:11:05. > :11:06.programme. First, we are going to separate out the generation side
:11:07. > :11:14.from the supply side within the big six. Secondly, we will have a energy
:11:15. > :11:20.pool, or power exchange, where all energy will have to be traded in
:11:21. > :11:22.that pool. Thirdly, we will establish a tougher regulator,
:11:23. > :11:29.because Ofgem is increasingly being seen as not doing the job right I
:11:30. > :11:33.notice that you didn't mention any reform of the current green and
:11:34. > :11:39.social taxes on the energy bill Is it Labour's policy to maintain the
:11:40. > :11:44.existing green levies? In 2011, the government chose to get rid of warm
:11:45. > :11:49.front, which was the publicly funded through tracks a scheme to support
:11:50. > :11:54.new installation. When they got rid of that, it was the first time we
:11:55. > :12:00.had a government since the 70s that didn't have such a policy. What is
:12:01. > :12:04.your policy? We voted against that because we believe it is wrong. We
:12:05. > :12:14.believe that the eco-scheme, a government intervention which is ?47
:12:15. > :12:17.of the ?112 on our bills each year, is expensive, bureaucratic and isn't
:12:18. > :12:22.going to the fuel poor. I am up for a debate on these issues. I am up
:12:23. > :12:25.for a discussion on what the government should do and what these
:12:26. > :12:29.energy companies should do. We cannot let Cameron all the energy
:12:30. > :12:33.companies off the hook from the way in which they organise their
:12:34. > :12:39.businesses, and expect us to pay ever increasing rises in our bills.
:12:40. > :12:44.There is ?112 of green levies on our bills at the moment. Did you vote
:12:45. > :12:51.against any of them? We didn't, but what I would say ease these were
:12:52. > :12:55.government imposed levies. When they got rid of the government funded
:12:56. > :13:05.programme, Warm Front, they introduced the eco-scheme. The
:13:06. > :13:09.eco-project is one of the ones where the energy companies are saying
:13:10. > :13:13.it's too bureaucratic, and it is proving more expensive than
:13:14. > :13:17.government estimates, apparently doubled the amount the government
:13:18. > :13:23.thought. These things are all worth looking at, but don't go to the
:13:24. > :13:31.heart of the issue. According to official figures, on current plans,
:13:32. > :13:36.which you support, which you voted for, households will be paying 1%
:13:37. > :13:48.more per unit of electricity by 2030. It puts your temporary freeze
:13:49. > :13:53.as just a blip. You support a 4 % rise in our bills. I support making
:13:54. > :13:57.sure we secure for the future access to energy that we can grow here in
:13:58. > :14:03.the UK, whether it is through nuclear, wind or solar, or other
:14:04. > :14:09.technologies yet to be developed. We should protect ourselves against
:14:10. > :14:15.energy costs we cannot control. The truth is, it is every fair for you
:14:16. > :14:18.to put that point across, and I accept that, but we need to hear the
:14:19. > :14:23.other side about the cost for bill payers if we didn't invest in new,
:14:24. > :14:27.indigenous sources of energy supply for the future, which, in the long
:14:28. > :14:32.run, will be cheaper and more secure, and create the jobs we
:14:33. > :14:36.need. I think it is important to have a debate about these issues,
:14:37. > :14:41.but they have to be seen in the right context. If we stay stuck in
:14:42. > :14:47.the past, we will pay more and we will not create jobs. How can you
:14:48. > :14:52.criticise the coalition's plans for a new nuclear station, when jeering
:14:53. > :14:57.13 years of a Labour government you did not invest in a single nuclear
:14:58. > :15:07.plant? You sold off all our nuclear technology to foreign companies
:15:08. > :15:14.Energy provision was put out to private hands and there has been no
:15:15. > :15:25.obstacle in British law against ownership outside the UK. Part of
:15:26. > :15:30.this is looking ahead. Because your previous track record is so bad
:15:31. > :15:34.What we did decide under the previous government, we came to the
:15:35. > :15:41.view, and there were discussions in our party about this, that we did
:15:42. > :15:45.need to support a nuclear future. At the time of that, David Cameron
:15:46. > :15:50.was one of those saying that nuclear power should be a last
:15:51. > :15:54.resort. And as you said, the Liberals did not support it. We
:15:55. > :15:59.stood up for that. We set in train the green light of 10 sites,
:16:00. > :16:03.including Hinkley Point, for nuclear development. I am glad to
:16:04. > :16:08.see that is making progress and we should make more progress over the
:16:09. > :16:14.years ahead. We took a tough decision when other governments had
:16:15. > :16:23.not done. You did not build a new nuclear station. When you get back
:16:24. > :16:29.into power, will you build HS2? That has not had a blank cheque
:16:30. > :16:34.from the Labour Party. I am in favour of good infrastructure. Are
:16:35. > :16:40.you in favour of?, answer the question? I have answered the
:16:41. > :16:45.question. It does not have a blank cheque. If the prices are too high,
:16:46. > :16:50.we will review the decision when we come back to vote on it. We will be
:16:51. > :16:55.looking at it closely. We have to look for value for money and how it
:16:56. > :17:02.benefits the country. Have you stocked up on jumpers this winter?
:17:03. > :17:07.I am perfectly all right with my clothing. What is important, it is
:17:08. > :17:11.ridiculous for the Government to suggest that the answer to the loss
:17:12. > :17:21.of trust in the energy companies is to put on another jumper.
:17:22. > :17:27.The coalition has taken a long time to come up with anything that can
:17:28. > :17:33.trump Ed Miliband's simple freezing energy prices, vote for us. Are
:17:34. > :17:36.they on the brink of doing so? I do not think so. They have had a
:17:37. > :17:42.problem that has dominated the debate, talking about GDP, the
:17:43. > :17:48.figures came out on Friday and said, well, and went back to talking
:17:49. > :17:53.about energy. My problem with what David Cameron proposes is he agrees
:17:54. > :17:58.with the analysis that the Big Six make too many profits. He wants to
:17:59. > :18:02.move the green levies into general taxation, so that he looks like he
:18:03. > :18:08.is protecting the profits of the energy companies. If the coalition
:18:09. > :18:14.can say they will take money off the bills, does that change the
:18:15. > :18:19.game? I do not think the Liberal Democrats are an obstacle to
:18:20. > :18:26.unwinding the green levies. I think Nick Clegg is open to doing a deal,
:18:27. > :18:30.but the real obstacle is the carbon reduction targets that we signed up
:18:31. > :18:35.to during the boom years. They were ambitious I thought at the time
:18:36. > :18:40.From that we have the taxes and clocking up of the supply-side of
:18:41. > :18:43.the economy. Unless he will revise that, and build from first
:18:44. > :18:49.principles a new strategy, he cannot do more than put a dent into
:18:50. > :18:54.green levies. He might say as I have got to ?50 now and if you
:18:55. > :18:59.voters in in an overall majority, I will look up what we have done in
:19:00. > :19:05.the better times and give you more. I am sure he will do that. It might
:19:06. > :19:09.be ?50 of the Bill, but it will be ?50 on your general taxation bill,
:19:10. > :19:17.which would be more progressive They will find it. We will never
:19:18. > :19:23.see it in general taxation. The problem for the Coalition on what
:19:24. > :19:26.Ed Miliband has done is that it is five weeks since he made that
:19:27. > :19:30.speech and it is all we are talking about. David Cameron spent those
:19:31. > :19:33.five weeks trying to work out whether Ed Miliband is a Marxist or
:19:34. > :19:38.whether he is connected to Middle Britain. That is why Ed Miliband
:19:39. > :19:44.set the agenda. The coalition are squabbling among themselves,
:19:45. > :19:50.looking petulant, on energy, and on schools. Nobody is taking notice of
:19:51. > :19:55.the fact the economy is under way, the recovery is under way. Ed
:19:56. > :20:02.Miliband has made the weather on this.
:20:03. > :20:12.It UK has a relaxed attitude about selling off assets based -- to
:20:13. > :20:15.companies based abroad. But this week we have seen the Swiss owner
:20:16. > :20:18.of one of Scotland's largest industrial sites, Grangemouth, come
:20:19. > :20:21.within a whisker of closing part of it down. So should we care whether
:20:22. > :20:23.British assets have foreign owners? Britain might be a nation of
:20:24. > :20:28.homeowners, but we appear to have lost our taste for owning some of
:20:29. > :20:32.our biggest businesses. These are among the crown jewels sold off in
:20:33. > :20:38.the past three decades to companies based abroad. Roughly half of
:20:39. > :20:40.Britain's essential services have overseas owners. The airport owner,
:20:41. > :20:43.British Airports Authority, is owned by a Spanish company.
:20:44. > :20:47.Britain's largest water company Thames, is owned by a consortium
:20:48. > :20:49.led by an Australian bank. Four out of six of Britain's biggest energy
:20:50. > :20:52.companies are owned by overseas giants, and one of these, EDF
:20:53. > :20:55.Energy, which is owned by the French state, is building Britain's
:20:56. > :21:03.first nuclear power plant in a generation, backed by Chinese
:21:04. > :21:08.investors. It's a similar story for train operator Arriva, bought by a
:21:09. > :21:10.company owned by the German state. So part of the railways privatised
:21:11. > :21:19.by the British government was effectively re-nationalised by the
:21:20. > :21:22.German government. But does it matter who owns these companies as
:21:23. > :21:27.long as the lights stay on, the trains run on time, and we can
:21:28. > :21:33.still eat Cadbury's Dairy Milk? We are joined by the general
:21:34. > :21:39.secretary of the RMT, Bob Crow, and by venture capitalist Julie Meyer.
:21:40. > :21:46.They go head to head. Have we seen the consequences of
:21:47. > :21:53.relying for essential services to be foreign-owned? Four of the Big
:21:54. > :21:59.Six energy companies, Grangemouth, owned by a tax exile in Switzerland.
:22:00. > :22:04.It is not good. I do not think there is a cause and effect
:22:05. > :22:08.relationship between foreign ownership and consumer prices. That
:22:09. > :22:13.is not the right comparison. We need to be concerned about
:22:14. > :22:16.businesses represented the future, businesses we are good at
:22:17. > :22:23.innovating for example in financial services and the UK has a history
:22:24. > :22:34.of building businesses, such as Monotypes. If we were not creating
:22:35. > :22:40.businesses here -- Monotise. Like so many businesses creating
:22:41. > :22:48.products and services and creating the shareholders. Should we allow
:22:49. > :22:53.hour essential services to be in foreign ownership? It was
:22:54. > :22:58.demonstrated this week at Grangemouth. If you do not own the
:22:59. > :23:03.industry, you do not own it. The MPs of this country and the
:23:04. > :23:06.politicians in Scotland have no say, they were consultants.
:23:07. > :23:13.Multinationals decide whether to shut a company down. If that had
:23:14. > :23:19.been Unite union, they are the ones who saved the jobs. They
:23:20. > :23:23.capitulated. They will come back, like they have for the past 150
:23:24. > :23:29.years, and capture again what they lost. If it had closed, they would
:23:30. > :23:33.have lost their jobs for ever. If the union had called the members up
:23:34. > :23:38.without a ballot for strike action, there would have been uproar. This
:23:39. > :23:43.person in Switzerland can decide to shut the entire industry down. The
:23:44. > :23:49.coalition, the Labour Party, as well, when Labour was in government,
:23:50. > :23:53.they played a role of allowing industries to go abroad, and it
:23:54. > :24:05.should be returned to public ownership. Nestor. It has
:24:06. > :24:14.demonstrated that the Net comes from new businesses. We must not
:24:15. > :24:20.be... When Daly motion was stopped by the French government to be sold,
:24:21. > :24:25.it was an arrow to the heart of French entrepreneurs. We must not
:24:26. > :24:29.create that culture in the UK. Every train running in France is
:24:30. > :24:37.built in France. 90% of the trains running in Germany are built in
:24:38. > :24:44.Germany. In Japan, it has to be built in that country, and now an
:24:45. > :24:48.energy company in France is reducing its nuclear capability in
:24:49. > :24:52.its own country and wants to make profits out of the British industry
:24:53. > :24:56.to put back into it state industry. That happened with the railway
:24:57. > :25:02.industry. They want to make money at the expense of their own state
:25:03. > :25:09.companies. We sold off energy production. How did we end up in a
:25:10. > :25:16.position where our nuclear capacity will be built by a company owned by
:25:17. > :25:24.a socialist date, France, and funded by a communist one, China,
:25:25. > :25:27.for vital infrastructure? I am not suggesting that is in the national
:25:28. > :25:33.interest. I am saying we can pick any one example and say it is a
:25:34. > :25:36.shame. The simple matter of the fact is the owners are having to
:25:37. > :25:41.make decisions. Not just Grangemouth, businesses are making
:25:42. > :25:47.decisions about what is the common good. Not just in the shareholders'
:25:48. > :25:52.interest. For employees, customers. What is in the common good when
:25:53. > :25:56.prices go up by 10% and the reason is that 20 years ago they shut
:25:57. > :26:01.every coal pit down in this country, the Germans kept theirs open and
:26:02. > :26:08.subsidised it and now we have the Germans doing away with nuclear
:26:09. > :26:14.power and they have coal. Under the Labour government, in 2008, the
:26:15. > :26:19.climate change Act was passed. Well before that, and you know yourself,
:26:20. > :26:23.they shut down the coal mines to smash the National Union of
:26:24. > :26:28.Mineworkers because they dared to stand up for people in their
:26:29. > :26:32.community. Even if we wanted to reopen the coalmines, it would be
:26:33. > :26:40.pointless. Under the 2008 Act, we are not meant to burn more coal
:26:41. > :26:47.The can, as if you spent some of the profits, you could have carbon
:26:48. > :26:51.catch up. That does not exist on a massive scale. You are arguing the
:26:52. > :26:56.case, Julie Meyer, for entrepreneurs to come to this
:26:57. > :27:02.country. Even Bob Crow is not against that. We are trying to
:27:03. > :27:10.argue, should essential services be in foreign hands? Not those in
:27:11. > :27:16.Silicon round about doing start ups. I am trying to draw a broader
:27:17. > :27:19.principle than just energy. Something like broadband services,
:27:20. > :27:27.also important to the functioning of the economy. I believe in the
:27:28. > :27:31.UK's ability to innovate. When we have businesses that play off
:27:32. > :27:36.broadband companies to get the best prices for consumers. These new
:27:37. > :27:43.businesses and business models are the best way. Not to control, but
:27:44. > :27:49.to influence. It will be a disaster. Prices will go up and up as a
:27:50. > :27:54.result. Nissan in Sunderland, a Japanese factory, some of the best
:27:55. > :27:57.cars and productivity. You want that to be nationalised and bring
:27:58. > :28:02.it down to the standard of British Leyland? It is not bring it down to
:28:03. > :28:07.the standard. The car manufacturing base in this country has been
:28:08. > :28:13.wrecked. We make more cars now for 20 years -- than in 20 years.
:28:14. > :28:21.Ford's Dagenham produced some of the best cars in the world. Did you
:28:22. > :28:27.buy one? I cannot drive. They moved their plants to other countries
:28:28. > :28:32.where it was cheaper labour. Would you nationalise Nissan? There
:28:33. > :28:39.should be one car industry that produces cars for people. This week
:28:40. > :28:45.the EU summit was about Angela Merkel's mobile phone being tapped,
:28:46. > :28:50.they call it a handy. We sent Adam to Brussels and told him to ignore
:28:51. > :28:52.the business about phone-tapping and investigate the Prime
:28:53. > :29:08.Minister's policy on Europe instead. I have come to my first EU summit to
:29:09. > :29:12.see how David Cameron is getting on with his strategy to claim power was
:29:13. > :29:21.back from Brussels. Got any powers back yet? Yes! Which ones? Sadly,
:29:22. > :29:26.his fellow leaders were not as forthcoming. Chancellor, are you
:29:27. > :29:33.going to give any powers back to Britain? Has David Cameron asked you
:29:34. > :29:39.for any powers back? The president of the commission just laughed, and
:29:40. > :29:50.listen to the Lithuanian President. How is David Cameron's renegotiation
:29:51. > :29:55.strategy going? What's that? He wants powers back for Britain. No
:29:56. > :30:00.one knows what powers David Cameron actually wants. Even our usual
:30:01. > :30:07.allies, like Sweden, are bit baffled. We actually don't know yet
:30:08. > :30:14.what is going through the UK membership. We will await the
:30:15. > :30:20.finalisation of that first. You should ask him, and then tell us!
:30:21. > :30:25.Here is someone who must know, the Dutch Prime Minister, he is doing
:30:26. > :30:30.what we are doing, carrying out a review of the EU powers, known as
:30:31. > :30:35.competencies in the jargon, before negotiating to get some back. Have
:30:36. > :30:40.you had any negotiations with David Cameron over what powers you can
:30:41. > :30:46.bring back from Brussels? That is not on the agenda of this summit.
:30:47. > :30:50.Have you talked to him about it This is not on the schedule for this
:30:51. > :30:59.summit. David Cameron's advises tummy it is
:31:00. > :31:08.because he is playing the long game. -- David Cameron's advisers tell me.
:31:09. > :31:15.At this summit, there was a task force discussing how to cut EU red
:31:16. > :31:19.tape. Just how long this game is was explained to me outside the summit,
:31:20. > :31:25.by the leader of the Conservatives in the European Parliament. I think
:31:26. > :31:28.the behind-the-scenes negotiations will start happening when the new
:31:29. > :31:34.commissioner is appointed later next year. I think the detailed
:31:35. > :31:38.negotiations will start to happen bubbly after the UK general
:31:39. > :31:43.election. That is when we will start getting all of the detail of the
:31:44. > :31:50.horse trading, and real, Lake night negotiations. Angela Merkel seems
:31:51. > :31:55.keen to rewrite the EU's main treaties to deal with changes in the
:31:56. > :31:59.Eurozone, and that is the mechanism David Cameron would use to
:32:00. > :32:03.renegotiate our membership. Everyone here says his relationship with the
:32:04. > :32:09.German Chancellor is strong. So after days in this building, here is
:32:10. > :32:14.how it looks. David Cameron has a mountain to climb. It is climbable,
:32:15. > :32:19.but he isn't even in the foothills yet. Has he even started packing his
:32:20. > :32:24.bags for the trip? Joining us now, a man who knows a
:32:25. > :32:29.thing or two about the difficulties Prime Minister 's face in Europe.
:32:30. > :32:33.Former Deputy Prime Minister, Michael Heseltine. We are nine
:32:34. > :32:41.months from David Cameron's defining speech on EU renegotiation. Can you
:32:42. > :32:47.think of one area of progress? I don't know. And you don't know. And
:32:48. > :32:52.that's a good thing. Why is it a good thing? Because the real
:32:53. > :33:03.progress goes on behind closed doors. And only the most naive,
:33:04. > :33:11.because the real progress goes on behind closed doors. Because, in
:33:12. > :33:17.this weary world, you and I, Andrew, know full well that the moment you
:33:18. > :33:21.say, I making progress, people say, where? And the machine goes to work
:33:22. > :33:28.to show that the progress isn't enough. So you are much better off
:33:29. > :33:37.making progress as best you can in the privacy of private diplomacy. It
:33:38. > :33:41.is a long journey ahead. In this long journey, do you have a clear
:33:42. > :33:48.sense of the destination? Do you have a clear sense of what powers Mr
:33:49. > :33:52.Cameron wants to negotiate? I have a clear sense of the destination,
:33:53. > :33:58.which is a victory for the campaign that he will win to stay inside the
:33:59. > :34:07.European community. That is the agenda, and I have total support for
:34:08. > :34:12.that. I understand that, but if he is incapable of getting any tangible
:34:13. > :34:19.sign of renegotiation, if he is able only to do what Wilson did in 1 75,
:34:20. > :34:23.which was to get a couple of token changes to our membership status, he
:34:24. > :34:29.goes into that referendum without much to argue for. He has everything
:34:30. > :34:37.to argue for. He's got Britain's vital role as a major contributor to
:34:38. > :34:43.the community. He's got Britain s self interest as a major
:34:44. > :34:49.beneficiary, and Britain's vital role in the City of London. He's got
:34:50. > :34:54.everything to argue for. He could argue for that now. He could have a
:34:55. > :35:02.referendum now. He doesn't want one now. I haven't any doubt that he
:35:03. > :35:11.will come back with something to talk about. But it may be slightly
:35:12. > :35:17.different to what his critics, the UK isolationist party people, want.
:35:18. > :35:23.He may, for example, have found that allies within the community want
:35:24. > :35:29.change as well, and he may secure changes in the way the community
:35:30. > :35:32.works, which would be a significant argument within the referendum
:35:33. > :35:37.campaign. Let me give you an example. I think it is a scandal
:35:38. > :35:44.that the European Commission don't secure the auditing of some of the
:35:45. > :35:49.accounts. Perhaps that could be on the agenda. He might find a lot of
:35:50. > :35:58.contributing countries, like Germany, like Colin and, would be
:35:59. > :36:03.very keen. -- like Holland. David vetoed the increase in the European
:36:04. > :36:08.budgets the other day, and he had a lot of allies. So working within
:36:09. > :36:13.Europe on the things that people paying the European bills want is
:36:14. > :36:20.fertile ground. Is John Major right to call for a windfall tax on the
:36:21. > :36:24.energy companies? John is a very cautious fellow. He doesn't say
:36:25. > :36:32.things without thinking them out. So I was surprised that he went for a
:36:33. > :36:36.windfall tax. First of all, it is retrospective, and secondly, it is
:36:37. > :36:41.difficult to predict what the consequences will be. I am, myself,
:36:42. > :36:45.more interested in the other part of his speech, which was talking about
:36:46. > :36:50.the need for the Conservative Party to seek a wider horizon, to
:36:51. > :36:54.recognise what is happening to the Conservative Party in the way in
:36:55. > :37:04.which its membership is shrinking into a southeastern enclave. Are you
:37:05. > :37:16.in favour of a windfall tax? I am not in favour of increasing any
:37:17. > :37:22.taxes. Do you share Iain Duncan Smith's point of view on welfare
:37:23. > :37:31.reform? I think Iain Duncan Smith is right. It is extremely difficult to
:37:32. > :37:40.do, but he is right to try. I think public opinion is behind him, but it
:37:41. > :37:45.isn't easy, because on the fringe of these issues there are genuine hard
:37:46. > :37:50.luck stories, and they are the ones that become the focus of attention
:37:51. > :37:56.the moment you introduce change. It requires a lot of political skill to
:37:57. > :38:01.negotiate your way through that. But isn't Iain Duncan Smith right to
:38:02. > :38:05.invoke the beverage principle, that you should be expected to make a
:38:06. > :38:11.contribution for the welfare you depend on? Yes, he is. I will let
:38:12. > :38:16.you get your Sunday lunch. Thanks for joining us.
:38:17. > :38:27.Coming up in just over 20 minutes, I will be looking
:38:28. > :38:31.Hello, I'm Lucie Fisher. Coming up on the Sunday Politics in the South
:38:32. > :38:33.West. The council planning to cut mobile
:38:34. > :38:39.library services whilst spending millions on the type which stay in
:38:40. > :38:43.one place. And for the next 20 minutes, I'm
:38:44. > :38:46.joined by the Lib Dem MP Stephen Gilbert, and the leader of the UKIP
:38:47. > :38:51.group on Cornwall Council, Steph McWIlliam. Welcome to the programme.
:38:52. > :38:55.Let's begin with school funding. In June, the Chancellor promised to
:38:56. > :38:59.close the funding gap which can mean pupils in the South West are worth
:39:00. > :39:04.more than ?3,000 a year less than those in London. The Education
:39:05. > :39:07.Secretary hammered home the Government's good news on a visit to
:39:08. > :39:17.Barnstaple's Pilton Community College. It is an historic
:39:18. > :39:22.unfairness which means areas in the South West have been discriminated
:39:23. > :39:26.against. That will end. This week, the North Devon MP Sir Nick Harvey
:39:27. > :39:30.wrote to Michael Gove urging him to introduce a fairer funding formula
:39:31. > :39:33.not in April 2015, but as quickly as possible. Do you agree with Nick
:39:34. > :39:38.Harvey that the schools need the money now, not in the future?
:39:39. > :40:05.Absolutely, it has been a running sore in Cornwall... There is a
:40:06. > :40:09.growing number of people who want to see a fairer funding formula. We
:40:10. > :40:17.heard Michael Gove been quite definite about this. It has not been
:40:18. > :40:22.a great week for coalition unity. I do not think this is a big split in
:40:23. > :40:27.the coalition, it is not that kind of story. What we are clear about as
:40:28. > :40:33.a government is that there will be a fairer funding formula introduced.
:40:34. > :40:37.It is worth millions? Yes, it is, and it will make a real difference
:40:38. > :40:44.to those remote, rural schools who are struggling at the moment. Are
:40:45. > :40:48.you satisfied this will go ahead? It is going to be much too late, we
:40:49. > :40:52.already have some serious problems with the shortage of school places.
:40:53. > :40:58.Schools, even where we have an adequate number of places, are
:40:59. > :41:05.struggling. We have been let down for a very long time by all the
:41:06. > :41:12.parties. Yes, we have been let down. But we have only been in power
:41:13. > :41:15.for the last three years and are delivering a fairer funding
:41:16. > :41:20.formula. 13 years of Labour did not address this. We saw a big buyers
:41:21. > :41:31.towards funding for inner`city areas. It is quite a lot of money,
:41:32. > :41:36.?3000. Even if you say that our line which problems in schools in London,
:41:37. > :41:42.special educational needs must be the same for the South West as for
:41:43. > :41:48.people in London? I have never understood the difference in nation
:41:49. > :41:54.between `` the differentiation between London and rural areas. We
:41:55. > :42:01.have difficulties in my local school because we are not in a big, urban
:42:02. > :42:08.centre and our pupil numbers are critical. The funding means we have,
:42:09. > :42:16.at the moment, a teacher coping with reception and year one. It is not
:42:17. > :42:23.ideal. Hopefully, it will be addressed sooner rather than later.
:42:24. > :42:25.Campaigners against wind farms say the Government's promise to give
:42:26. > :42:29.communities new powers to block applications has turned out to be
:42:30. > :42:32.nothing more than spin. In parts of Devon, councillors are continuing to
:42:33. > :42:33.see their decisions to reject wind turbines overturned on appeal. Anna
:42:34. > :42:44.Varle reports. It is an issue which continues to
:42:45. > :42:49.divide society. The government should stop putting wind turbines in
:42:50. > :42:53.the open countryside. The impact on the landscape is enormous. There
:42:54. > :42:58.will soon be nowhere in the countryside where there will not
:42:59. > :43:00.beef fuse of turbines. The government published new planning
:43:01. > :43:04.guidance the summer of which is said would give communities more say in
:43:05. > :43:10.refusing unsuitable projects. There have been some wind farm satire
:43:11. > :43:18.inappropriately cited. Some people feel under siege on the strong wind
:43:19. > :43:23.farms. But residents living in North Devon say this is not happening. The
:43:24. > :43:29.local authority refused permission for a 35 metre turbine to be built
:43:30. > :43:37.on this site, only for the decision to be overturned by the planning
:43:38. > :43:40.inspector this week. It is such a disappointment for the expected to
:43:41. > :43:46.come in and override all public opinion. `` for the inspector.
:43:47. > :43:55.Torridge District Council see it has seen an increase in applications of
:43:56. > :44:02.500% is since 2010, most of which it has said yes to. But 90% of the
:44:03. > :44:09.projects they rejected last year had been overturned at national level.
:44:10. > :44:16.It is ludicrous that we have no local determination. It is really
:44:17. > :44:28.government views and forced upon us, and there seems to be nothing we
:44:29. > :44:31.can do. It is not satisfactory. Nationally, others claim the
:44:32. > :44:35.guidance the government has issued this year has been misunderstood and
:44:36. > :44:47.local communities do not have the power to stop an application. There
:44:48. > :44:51.is no veto in the guidance published this year. The news will be of
:44:52. > :44:57.comfort to developers of renewable energy who say they do work closely
:44:58. > :45:01.with local communities. More than 70% of people in the south`west say
:45:02. > :45:06.they will support more wind farms being built there, but we want to
:45:07. > :45:10.see the right places. It might be too late for these residents. Those
:45:11. > :45:15.who have lived and farmed here for more than 50 years say they still
:45:16. > :45:19.have hope. We will probably find we are up against a brick wall, but
:45:20. > :45:26.nevertheless, we hope that this localism bill, much trumpeted by the
:45:27. > :45:29.government, will actually have some value.
:45:30. > :45:35.Wind turbine opponent Dennis Cronk ending that report from Anna Varle.
:45:36. > :45:42.It does appear that localism has been a bit of a sham? It leaves a
:45:43. > :45:46.very bitter taste in people's mouths when a democratic planning process
:45:47. > :45:50.that local communities access through their local council is then
:45:51. > :45:54.overturned by the planning Inspectorate. It happens in my
:45:55. > :46:01.constituency in house`building applications as much as on wind
:46:02. > :46:06.turbines. We need to use the provisions in the localism bill and
:46:07. > :46:11.make sure that communities are exercising what is in there. But
:46:12. > :46:21.that is what the localism bill should be doing. 90% of turbines at
:46:22. > :46:26.`` but were rejected at local level, within approved at national level.
:46:27. > :46:31.It leaves a bitter taste in the mouth when democratic local
:46:32. > :46:35.decisions are overturned. But we need to be clear that the community
:46:36. > :46:45.is using all the provisions that are in the localism act to be as
:46:46. > :46:50.muscular as possible. We spoke to a lot of people in these communities
:46:51. > :46:57.who are very cross, is UKIP benefiting from this? There is a
:46:58. > :47:04.really important issue here. I have been at some site meetings for wind
:47:05. > :47:06.farm applications, these wind turbines are everywhere and it is
:47:07. > :47:12.frightening how close they are coming to residential properties of
:47:13. > :47:16.non`financially involved people. There is in increasing body of
:47:17. > :47:20.evidence that there is a link between proximity of turbines and
:47:21. > :47:24.adverse health effects. This has got to get onto the agenda and I am
:47:25. > :47:35.hoping that Stephen might be able to visit with it really `` with Ed
:47:36. > :47:42.Davey. There is always going to be a debate we are situated, whether
:47:43. > :47:45.neighbours have our financial interest or not. What is clear as
:47:46. > :47:54.our country is that we need diverse energy provision, on short
:47:55. > :48:01.renewables, offshore renewables. Nuclear power stations as well.
:48:02. > :48:17.Where is the money coming form `` from for that? We have two large
:48:18. > :48:29.offshore wind farms planned, paid for by foreign companies. There has
:48:30. > :48:33.to be ?120 billion worth of money invested in energy to make sure that
:48:34. > :48:44.we can keep the lights on and guard against climate change. That is the
:48:45. > :48:54.government's position. That is why... But how can you have that and
:48:55. > :49:03.community involvement? If foreign investors are investing billions of
:49:04. > :49:12.pounds in these plans, how can community voices be heard? Lots of
:49:13. > :49:17.their schemes we have heard about will be domestic. I am glad you
:49:18. > :49:23.brought this up because we keep hearing about all these jobs,
:49:24. > :49:29.renewable energy projects and jobs. In my parish, the entire workforce
:49:30. > :49:35.and all the materials were brought in from overseas. Julian the
:49:36. > :49:47.construction phase, the number of jobs for local people, none. ``
:49:48. > :49:53.during. During the running phase, the number of jobs for local people,
:49:54. > :49:57.none. The concern about the health risks of radiation, which we all
:49:58. > :50:05.know accept, we need to be looking at the evidence which is already out
:50:06. > :50:10.there. I do not note the detailed example, but if you look at the
:50:11. > :50:16.billions of pounds of investment that has now been secured for the
:50:17. > :50:20.new nuclear power station, 20,000 jobs will be created on the back of
:50:21. > :50:28.it initially, pouring billions of pounds into the local economy. We
:50:29. > :50:34.need to be open to businesses and investment from around the world.
:50:35. > :50:45.Why are British people not investing? Why is it the Chinese,
:50:46. > :50:54.who actually have a minority Shia and want a controlling interest. ``
:50:55. > :50:58.minority share. We need ?120 billion worth of investment to keep the
:50:59. > :51:02.lights on over the next period of time. We need to have our door is
:51:03. > :51:07.open to all those who want to invest in the United Kingdom and create
:51:08. > :51:11.jobs here. Jobs that... I have to stop you there.
:51:12. > :51:14.Some of the region's most isolated communities are bracing themselves
:51:15. > :51:17.for the loss of their mobile library service after Devon County Council
:51:18. > :51:19.announced plans to cut stops where fewer than three people turn up.
:51:20. > :51:22.Councillors are, of course, struggling to make ends meet in
:51:23. > :51:25.increasingly straitened times, but some are now questioning their
:51:26. > :51:32.decisions to spend millions doing`up static libraries. Jenny Kumah
:51:33. > :51:35.reports. Devon's mobile library service
:51:36. > :51:40.serves some of the county's most remote communities. But at a time of
:51:41. > :51:46.tighter budget, the council is looking at making cutbacks. I have
:51:47. > :51:53.got four vehicles that are coming to the end of their working life. To
:51:54. > :52:00.replace them would cost about ?200,000. We have been looking at
:52:01. > :52:07.the statistics that are coming out of the... That we take all the time.
:52:08. > :52:17.We think that these stops are less than four people, quite often. One
:52:18. > :52:22.of the 70s `` one of the 70 steps is this one. This week, it did not
:52:23. > :52:25.appear to be underused. Around a dozen children have been on board to
:52:26. > :52:30.borrow books. The headteacher did not want to appear on film, but she
:52:31. > :52:34.told me that they need the service because it adds to the range of
:52:35. > :52:38.books children can't read. There was also a young mother on board with
:52:39. > :52:41.her child. She to be she was disappointed to hear that the
:52:42. > :52:52.service was under threat. She said the next nearest service would mean
:52:53. > :52:57.a car journey. In the past, visits to Devon's library have dropped by
:52:58. > :53:02.17%. The county council says the decline is mainly down to people
:53:03. > :53:07.accessing the library online and a reduction in opening hours. Despite
:53:08. > :53:14.this decline, the authority is spending ?4.1 million on
:53:15. > :53:29.refurbishing Exeter. This week, said mouth also reopened after a
:53:30. > :53:40.refurbishment. `` said it's very nice. I like it. There is a decline
:53:41. > :53:44.in people going to libraries. It is up to the council to bridge that
:53:45. > :53:53.demand and decide whether to invest more in libraries or online. But the
:53:54. > :53:58.council stands by its investment. You need to invest to make sure that
:53:59. > :54:05.libraries provide what people want. When we have been refurbishing other
:54:06. > :54:09.libraries, people's use of those libraries just goes through the roof
:54:10. > :54:19.and that is what I expect to see from this library in Sidmouth.
:54:20. > :54:23.Devon's councillors are proud of keeping libraries open. But as the
:54:24. > :54:27.funding squeeze continues, councillors across the region will
:54:28. > :54:32.face tough choices over how much priority libraries should be given
:54:33. > :54:37.for the future. We love our libraries in Britain,
:54:38. > :54:42.but is it right to continue investing in them when councils are
:54:43. > :54:48.so strapped for cash? You have got to treat libraries the same way as
:54:49. > :54:53.so many other services. Times are changing, people are using E books
:54:54. > :54:57.and getting information electronically. There is not the
:54:58. > :55:04.same demand as there was. But last week, I visited a wonderful library
:55:05. > :55:09.in Upton cross which is in the kitchen of the primary school. It
:55:10. > :55:17.doubles as a community library and a school library. A wonderful lady
:55:18. > :55:22.runs it, and it was buzzing. What we must not lose is in using children
:55:23. > :55:34.with that love of books, just picking them up and being familiar
:55:35. > :55:41.with them. The investment and that was miniscule compared with building
:55:42. > :55:47.a new library. And it does have Internet access. Have times moved
:55:48. > :55:54.on, should we be investing in new things, our libraries on their way
:55:55. > :55:57.out? I hope not. The passion for books, knowledge and education is
:55:58. > :56:07.something that has helped to underpin our country's success and
:56:08. > :56:12.libraries play a key role in that. I think there are tough choices for
:56:13. > :56:16.councillors to make, to get the right balance in these difficult
:56:17. > :56:21.times. It is great news that the economy has continued to grow over
:56:22. > :56:25.the last quarter. But if you are council and you are facing cuts in
:56:26. > :56:31.library services and cuts to adult services, respite care centres, it
:56:32. > :56:37.is a difficult decision over what to go with? There is no doubt that
:56:38. > :56:42.these are difficult decisions and there is a difficult balance for
:56:43. > :56:47.councillors across the region to make. We simply do not have the
:56:48. > :56:51.money to spend on the ideal scenario across all services at the moment.
:56:52. > :56:58.That is why it is good news that the economy has improved. I hear what
:56:59. > :57:08.you are saying? There is a plan to put up council tax to try to get
:57:09. > :57:11.some... I am glad you brought this up because has been a lot of
:57:12. > :57:18.misunderstanding. That motion that was discussed on Tuesday was to see
:57:19. > :57:29.an alternative budget, not voting on 6%. In fact, from my point of view,
:57:30. > :57:33.I am being presented as a new councillor with one budget, take it
:57:34. > :57:40.or leave it. I wanted to see two, to compare it. To see what the impact
:57:41. > :57:46.would be on services. So you might vote for a larger increase? Probably
:57:47. > :57:49.not, but I have not been given the information to make an informed
:57:50. > :57:56.decision. Because of the severe reduction in government funding that
:57:57. > :58:02.we are getting, and it is this government that is making that
:58:03. > :58:14.decision. Now our regular round`up of the political week in 60 seconds.
:58:15. > :58:22.The Prime Minister came to Somerset to announce plans for a new nuclear
:58:23. > :58:25.power station. This company is investing in local training, local
:58:26. > :58:30.colleges to make sure that young people in Somerset can do
:58:31. > :58:36.apprenticeships here and learn skills in engineering and
:58:37. > :58:41.construction. There were reports an increase `` of an increase in
:58:42. > :58:48.house`building. There is a rise in new home construction, it is good
:58:49. > :58:58.news. Motorists in Torbay welcomed a cut to parking charges. It will
:58:59. > :59:06.bring more local people in. And taxi drivers in Newton Abbot were told to
:59:07. > :59:11.remove stickers on their cars with the words local driver on them. It
:59:12. > :59:20.is quite upsetting that you cannot put our country's flag on the door.
:59:21. > :59:25.We will come back to you on this. Taxi drivers told to remove stickers
:59:26. > :59:32.with the words local driver on them. What do you make of that? They are
:59:33. > :59:39.running a business and in order to run a successful business, if they
:59:40. > :59:43.see this as a way of helping to keep their business going, if that is
:59:44. > :59:53.what local people want to know, give them that information. If you drive
:59:54. > :00:01.around Cornwall, that you will see lots of Cornish crosses on the cars.
:00:02. > :00:04.I do not think it is racist. I think the council leader has suggested
:00:05. > :00:09.they may have overreacted and asking the taxi drivers to remove them. I
:00:10. > :00:13.suppose what they were thinking, they were not saying our local
:00:14. > :00:23.driver in terms of being Cornish or Devon, it is more British driver, as
:00:24. > :00:36.opposed to being Polish or whatever M is that a problem there? I do not
:00:37. > :00:40.think it is important. What is important is being able to
:00:41. > :00:51.communicate between driver and customer. When I have been to other
:00:52. > :00:56.cities around the UK, that is what is important to me as a user of the
:00:57. > :01:09.taxi. Would you have a problem with it? Somebody and advertising
:01:10. > :01:16.themselves as being not foreign? I think that is stretching the point.
:01:17. > :01:18.All you have to do is cross the river and go into Cornwall and you
:01:19. > :01:31.will see free school area for into that
:01:32. > :01:32.Is Labour about to drop its support category. Thank you.
:01:33. > :01:36.Is Labour about to drop its support for High Speed 2, a rail line the
:01:37. > :01:47.party approved while in government? for High Speed 2, a rail line the
:01:48. > :01:59.these green shoots? These are all questions for The Week Ahead.
:02:00. > :02:04.So, HS2. Miss Flint wouldn't answer the question. She's in northern MP
:02:05. > :02:09.too. Ed Balls is comparing it to the Millennium Dome.
:02:10. > :02:14.too. Ed Balls is comparing it to the minute's silence for HS2? It will
:02:15. > :02:19.not be quite as crude as that. They will not stand up and say, we
:02:20. > :02:19.not be quite as crude as that. They senior Labour person said to me it
:02:20. > :02:22.would be a bit senior Labour person said to me it
:02:23. > :02:28.that Gordon Brown and Ed Balls set for the euro back in 97. They will
:02:29. > :02:31.be chucking lots of questions into the air, and the questions will
:02:32. > :02:38.create doubt, and will create the grounds for Labour to say, at some
:02:39. > :02:43.point, we think there is a much much better way of spending the money. It
:02:44. > :02:49.isn't ?42 billion, because that includes a contingency. Let's see
:02:50. > :02:57.what Peter Mandelson had to say about HS2. He was in the government
:02:58. > :03:01.when Labour supported it. Frankly, there was too much of the argument
:03:02. > :03:08.that if everyone else has got a high-speed train, we should have won
:03:09. > :03:14.too. Regardless of need, regardless of cost, and regardless of
:03:15. > :03:19.alternatives. As a party, to be frank, we didn't feel like being
:03:20. > :03:26.trumped by the zeal of the then opposition's support for the
:03:27. > :03:31.high-speed train. We wanted, if anything, to upstage them. So they
:03:32. > :03:38.didn't really need it, and we're only talking about ?50 billion. Why
:03:39. > :03:42.would you take a decision involving ?50 billion in a serious way? For
:03:43. > :03:48.David Cameron, if it becomes clear Labour is against it, he cannot
:03:49. > :03:52.proceed. He indicated last week that he wouldn't proceed if the certainty
:03:53. > :03:56.wasn't there. For Labour, HS2 is really a debate about the deficit by
:03:57. > :04:01.proxy. They think that if you don't go ahead with HS2, that releases
:04:02. > :04:06.tens of billions of pounds to spend on other things, such as public
:04:07. > :04:28.services, without going into boring. I don't think that works because
:04:29. > :04:30.there was a difference between cancelling something that already
:04:31. > :04:33.exists to pay for something else, and cancelling something that does
:04:34. > :04:35.not yet exist and will be paid for over decades to pay for something
:04:36. > :04:38.here and now. Can Labour do this? I know that the line will be, we are
:04:39. > :04:41.not going to build this railway because we are going to build
:04:42. > :04:43.200,000 houses a year. Can they do this without political cost? I think
:04:44. > :04:48.there will be political costs, but they will play this card of we have
:04:49. > :04:53.changed our mind. I think Cameron's line has been very clever, saying we
:04:54. > :04:58.cannot do it without labour. You can put it in two ways. Sorry, we cannot
:04:59. > :05:03.go ahead with it, but Labour has ruined your chance of prosperity, or
:05:04. > :05:09.they can tie themselves to it, and then Labour cannot attack it on
:05:10. > :05:14.great grounds when costs do spire. You can write Labour's script right
:05:15. > :05:22.now. They can say, if we were in charge, the financial management
:05:23. > :05:27.would be much better. This raises some really important questions for
:05:28. > :05:33.the government. They have utterly failed to make the case for HS2
:05:34. > :05:37.There is a real case to make. Between London and Birmingham it is
:05:38. > :05:42.about capacity not speed. North of Birmingham, it is about
:05:43. > :05:46.connectivity. It is a simple case to make, but it is only in the last
:05:47. > :05:49.month that they have been making that case. It shows really terrible
:05:50. > :05:57.complacency in the coalition that they haven't done that. We'll HS2
:05:58. > :06:01.happen or not? I think it will. For the reasons that Nick outlined,
:06:02. > :06:10.there is not of a constituency for it amongst Northern areas. -- there
:06:11. > :06:17.is enough of a constituency for it. There is private investment as well.
:06:18. > :06:24.It isn't like Heathrow. I say no, because I think Labour will drop
:06:25. > :06:27.their support for it. Caroline Flint said she was in favour of the
:06:28. > :06:32.concept of trains generally, but will it go further than that? It is
:06:33. > :06:38.difficult to see how it will go ahead if Labour will not support it
:06:39. > :06:46.after setting five tests that it clearly will not meet. Some will
:06:47. > :06:51.breathe a sigh of relief. Some will say, even in the 20th century, we
:06:52. > :06:56.cannot build a proper rail network. The economy was another big story of
:06:57. > :07:01.the week. We had those GDP figures. There is a video the Tories are
:07:02. > :07:05.releasing. The world premiere is going to be here. Where's the red
:07:06. > :07:09.carpet? It gives an indication of how the Tories will hand Mr Miliband
:07:10. > :07:43.and labour in the run-up to the election. Let's have a look at it.
:07:44. > :07:49.These graphics are even worse than the ones we use on our show! How on
:07:50. > :07:58.earth would you expect that to go viral? It did have a strange feel
:07:59. > :08:02.about it. It doesn't understand the Internet at all. Who is going to
:08:03. > :08:15.read those little screens between it? Put a dog in it! However,
:08:16. > :08:20.putting that aside, I have no idea that that is going to go viral. The
:08:21. > :08:26.Tories are now operating - and I say Tories rather than the coalition -
:08:27. > :08:30.on the assumption that the economy is improving and will continue to
:08:31. > :08:36.improve, and that that will become more obvious as 2014 goes on. We
:08:37. > :08:42.just saw their how they will fight the campaign. Yes, and at the
:08:43. > :08:47.crucial moment, you will reach the point where wages. To rise at a
:08:48. > :08:51.faster pace than inflation, and then people will start to, in the words
:08:52. > :08:57.of Harold Macmillan, feel that they have never had it so good. That is
:08:58. > :09:05.the key moment. If the economy is growing, there is a rule of thumb
:09:06. > :09:08.that the government should get a benefit. But it doesn't always work
:09:09. > :09:11.like that. The fundamental point here is that Ed Miliband has had a
:09:12. > :09:17.great month. He has totally set the agenda. He has set the agenda with
:09:18. > :09:22.something - freezing energy prices - that may not work. That video shows
:09:23. > :09:25.that the Conservatives want to get the debate back to the
:09:26. > :09:32.fundamentals. That this is a party that told us for three years that
:09:33. > :09:38.this coalition was telling us to -- was taking us to hell on a handcart.
:09:39. > :09:45.That doesn't seem to have happened. The energy price was a very clever
:09:46. > :09:49.thing, at the party conference season, which now seems years ago.
:09:50. > :09:55.They saw that the recovery was going to happen, so they changed the
:09:56. > :10:00.debate to living standards. Some economists are now privately
:10:01. > :10:05.expecting growth to be 3% next year, which was inconceivable for five
:10:06. > :10:07.months ago. If growth is 3% next year, living standards will start to
:10:08. > :10:14.rise again. Where does Labour go then? I would go further, and say
:10:15. > :10:18.that even though Ed Miliband has made a small political victory on
:10:19. > :10:25.living standards, it hasn't registered in the polls. Those polls
:10:26. > :10:29.have been contracted since April -- have been contracting since April.
:10:30. > :10:34.That macro economic story matters more than the issue of living
:10:35. > :10:38.standards. The interesting thing about the recovery is it confounds
:10:39. > :10:44.everybody. No one was predicting, not the Treasury, not the media not
:10:45. > :10:51.the IMF, not the academics, and the only people I can think of... I fit
:10:52. > :10:57.-- I thought they knew everything! The only people I know who did are
:10:58. > :11:00.one adviser who is very close to George Osborne, and the clever hedge
:11:01. > :11:05.fund is who were buying British equities back in January. Because
:11:06. > :11:09.the Treasury's record is so appalling, no one believe them, but
:11:10. > :11:14.they were saying around February, March this year, that by the end of
:11:15. > :11:23.the summer, the recovery would be gathering momentum. For once, they
:11:24. > :11:26.turned out to be right! They said that the economy would be going gang
:11:27. > :11:33.bust is! Where did the new Tory voters come from? I agree, if the
:11:34. > :11:42.economic recovery continues, the coalition will be stronger. But
:11:43. > :11:47.where will they get new voters from? For people who sign up to help to
:11:48. > :11:51.buy, they will be locked into nice mortgages at a low interest rate,
:11:52. > :11:57.and just as you go into a general election, if you are getting 3%
:11:58. > :12:00.growth and unemployment is down the Bank of England will have to review
:12:01. > :12:04.their interest rates. People who are getting nice interest rates now may
:12:05. > :12:11.find that it is not like that in a few months time. The point John
:12:12. > :12:15.Major was making implicitly was that Mrs Thatcher could speak to people
:12:16. > :12:21.on low incomes. John Major could not speak to them -- John Major could
:12:22. > :12:25.speak to them. But this coalition cannot speak to them. This idea
:12:26. > :12:33.about the reshuffle was that David Cameron wanted more Northern voices,
:12:34. > :12:38.more women, to make it look like it was not a party of seven men. When
:12:39. > :12:43.David Cameron became leader, John Major said, I do not speak very
:12:44. > :12:47.often, but when I do, I will help you, because I think you are good
:12:48. > :12:51.thing and I do not want to be like Margaret Thatcher. But that speech
:12:52. > :12:56.was clearly a lament for the party he believed that David Cameron was
:12:57. > :13:02.going to lead and create, but that isn't happening. And energy prices
:13:03. > :13:07.continue into this coming week. We have the companies going before a
:13:08. > :13:11.select committee. My information is they are sending along the secondary
:13:12. > :13:16.division, not the boss. How can they get along -- get away with that I
:13:17. > :13:21.got the letter through from British Gas this week explaining why my
:13:22. > :13:25.bills are going up, and at no point since this became a story have any
:13:26. > :13:30.of the big companies handled it well. I will have to leave it there.
:13:31. > :13:37.Make sure you pay your bill! That's it for today. The Daily Politics is
:13:38. > :13:44.back on BBC Two tomorrow. I will be back here on BBC One next Sunday.
:13:45. > :13:51.Remember, if it's Sunday, it is The Sunday Politics.