:00:39. > :00:52.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. It began as
:00:53. > :00:57.Plebgate, now it is Plodgate. The evidence of three police officers to
:00:58. > :01:01.MPs is branded a great work of fiction. They tried to intimidate
:01:02. > :01:06.the Grangemouth bosses, but in the end it was the union that
:01:07. > :01:11.capitulated. I will ask Len McCluskey about Unite union's strong
:01:12. > :01:16.arm tactics at Grangemouth and Falkirk. They preach women should be
:01:17. > :01:17.sidelined and confined to the private sphere. They argued they
:01:18. > :01:24.should be covered up. In the South West...Doubts about
:01:25. > :01:27.whether the government's flagship scheme to build more homes is
:01:28. > :01:28.actually doing the job. And the councillor calling for a seagull
:01:29. > :01:37.cull. authority is investigating --
:01:38. > :01:42.investing thousands of pounds in a GPS tracking system to keep tabs on
:01:43. > :01:49.its staff. With me as always, the best and the
:01:50. > :01:53.brightest political panel, Helen Lewis, Janan Ganesh and Nick Watt
:01:54. > :01:56.who will be tweeting their humiliating climb-down is what they
:01:57. > :02:03.got wrong last week in the programme. If this can happen it to
:02:04. > :02:07.a Cabinet minister, what hope is there for anyone else? Thus the Home
:02:08. > :02:11.Affairs Select Committee concluded what many already thought about the
:02:12. > :02:15.treatment of Andrew Mitchell by three self-styled PC plebs. They met
:02:16. > :02:20.him to clear the air over what did or did not happen when he was
:02:21. > :02:24.prevented from ramming his bike through the Downing Street gates.
:02:25. > :02:31.But the officers gave the media and inaccurate account of that meeting.
:02:32. > :02:34.Two of them are even accused of misleading the Commons committee.
:02:35. > :02:39.The Independent Police Complaints Commission will now reopen there
:02:40. > :02:45.enquiry. This is not a story about Andrew Mitchell, it is about the
:02:46. > :02:49.police. Keith Vaz is often in high dudgeon and this is the highest dad
:02:50. > :02:53.and I have seen him in for some time. They could be held for
:02:54. > :02:58.contempt of Parliament and technically they could be sent to
:02:59. > :03:02.prison. It has blown up into an enormous story. I do not know what
:03:03. > :03:07.is worse, the police trying to stitch up a Cabinet member and try
:03:08. > :03:15.to mislead the media or the incompetence they have done it from
:03:16. > :03:20.day one. That is quite good. I would sleep more soundly at night if I
:03:21. > :03:26.knew the pleas were good at this. It is the incompetence that shocks me.
:03:27. > :03:29.And this is just a sideshow. We are still waiting on the main report as
:03:30. > :03:35.to what exactly happened outside Downing Street gates. But that not
:03:36. > :03:40.will be good for the police either. The file has gone from the
:03:41. > :03:44.Metropolitan police to the CPS, so we are limited about what we can
:03:45. > :03:50.say. This is about the police Federation. They were set up under
:03:51. > :03:56.statute in 1990 as a deal in which a police would not go on strike. This
:03:57. > :03:59.is a political campaign to get a Cabinet minister out and the legacy
:04:00. > :04:06.of this is the police Federation will have to be reformed. We will
:04:07. > :04:12.keep an eye on it. They were Ed Miliband's union backers, they swung
:04:13. > :04:17.the Labour leadership for him in 2010. Now the Unite union looks like
:04:18. > :04:20.his biggest headache. The Sunday Times has seen extracts of the
:04:21. > :04:27.report into the alleged vote rigging to select a Labour candidate in
:04:28. > :04:30.Falkirk. There was evidence of coercion and Gregory as well as
:04:31. > :04:36.deliberate attempt to frustrate the enquiry. We will be speaking to Len
:04:37. > :04:42.McCluskey, the Unite union's General Secretary, in a moment. First out
:04:43. > :04:47.the saga began an almost ended up with the loss of 800 jobs at a
:04:48. > :04:51.petrochemical plant in Grangemouth. Unite were key players in the
:04:52. > :04:56.Grangemouth dispute and the union headed by Len McCluskey has come
:04:57. > :05:00.under fire for its intimidator Tariq tactics. In one instance
:05:01. > :05:06.demonstrators complete with an inflatable rat picketed the home of
:05:07. > :05:12.a INEOS director. The police were called. It was part of a strategy
:05:13. > :05:17.the union called leverage. But turning up at people's houses seems
:05:18. > :05:23.to represent an escalation. At the centre of the rout was Steve in
:05:24. > :05:28.deals -- Stephen Denes. INEOS launched an investigation into him
:05:29. > :05:33.as he was suspected of using company time to engineer the selection of
:05:34. > :05:40.labour's candidate in Falkirk. That candidate was Karie Murphy, a friend
:05:41. > :05:46.of Len McCluskey. Stevie Deans resigned last week and denies any
:05:47. > :05:56.wrongdoing, but it capped a dramatic climb-down by Unite union. Len
:05:57. > :06:01.McCluskey joins me now. Thanks to the Sunday Times we now know what is
:06:02. > :06:09.in this labour report on the Falkirk vote rigging. Forgery, coercion
:06:10. > :06:15.trickery, manipulation. You must be ashamed of how Unite union behaved
:06:16. > :06:21.in Falkirk. The Sunday Times article is lazy journalism. There is nothing
:06:22. > :06:25.new in the article. This was all dealt with by the Labour Party in
:06:26. > :06:30.the summer. We rejected those allegations then and we said we had
:06:31. > :06:34.done nothing wrong and both the Labour Party and the police in
:06:35. > :06:40.Scotland indicated there had been no wrongdoing. The report itself says
:06:41. > :06:45.you were trying to thwart the investigation. First you tried to
:06:46. > :06:49.fix the selection of a candidate to get your woman in and then you
:06:50. > :06:55.thwarted the investigation into the dirty deeds. The reality is the
:06:56. > :07:02.Labour Party report was deeply flawed. The Labour Party then
:07:03. > :07:06.instructed a solicitor, a lawyer, to do an in-depth investigation and
:07:07. > :07:10.during that investigation they got to the bottom of what had happened
:07:11. > :07:15.and they decided there was no wrongdoing whatsoever. At the time I
:07:16. > :07:21.was so confident we had done nothing, I called for an independent
:07:22. > :07:25.enquiry. They were forced to conclude there was no wrongdoing
:07:26. > :07:30.because the people who originally complained changed their evidence
:07:31. > :07:35.and we now know they did so because Unite union officials helped them to
:07:36. > :07:41.rewrite their retraction and Stevie Deans approved it. That is not true.
:07:42. > :07:49.We have had 1000 e-mails thrown into the public arena and what is that
:07:50. > :07:56.all about? Who is leaking this? They showed the Unite union was rewriting
:07:57. > :08:01.the retractions. This interview would go a lot better if you are
:08:02. > :08:09.allowed me to finish the question that you asked. These e-mails were
:08:10. > :08:13.put into the public arena by the PR company from INEOS. Why are they
:08:14. > :08:18.doing this? The truth of the matter is that all of the investigations
:08:19. > :08:23.that took place demonstrate there was nothing to answer. This idea
:08:24. > :08:28.that the Unite union has rewritten and the evidence from the families
:08:29. > :08:37.has been withdrawn, the families are a part of Stevie deems' family. They
:08:38. > :08:41.clarified the position. Do you deny that union officials were involved
:08:42. > :08:48.in the retractions? I deny it completely. This is important.
:08:49. > :08:52.Independent solicitors to witness statements from the family and they
:08:53. > :09:00.are the ones that were influencing the Labour Party with the position
:09:01. > :09:08.is clarified and there is no case to answer. Do you deny Stevie deems saw
:09:09. > :09:16.their retractions? It is his family. So you do not deny it? It is his
:09:17. > :09:20.family. This is an ordinary, decent family who were faced with the full
:09:21. > :09:27.weight of the pleas, a forensic solicitor. Of course they spoke to
:09:28. > :09:33.Stevie Deans. This whole thing is a cesspit. Does it not need an
:09:34. > :09:38.independent investigation? This is a trap being laid by Tory Central
:09:39. > :09:45.office. They are making all the demands. The media, the Daily Mail,
:09:46. > :09:49.the Sunday Times, the Conservative mouthpiece, they are laying tracks
:09:50. > :09:57.for Ed Miliband and Ed Miliband should not fall into them. Since
:09:58. > :10:06.when did it become part of an industrial dispute to send mobs to
:10:07. > :10:14.the home of company families. This is a legitimate form of protest and
:10:15. > :10:18.it is a silent protest. We believe if faceless directors are making
:10:19. > :10:24.decisions that cripple communities, they cannot expect to simply drift
:10:25. > :10:33.back to their own leafy suburbia and not be countable. This is silent
:10:34. > :10:37.protest. It is lawful. It may be silent in Grangemouth, but it was
:10:38. > :10:43.not silent elsewhere. You went with a giant rat, loud-hailers telling
:10:44. > :10:51.everybody the neighbour was evil. No, we did not. You had
:10:52. > :10:59.loud-hailers, you even encouraged passing children in Grangemouth to
:11:00. > :11:06.join in. That is nonsense. Look at the rat. The reality is the
:11:07. > :11:12.Grangemouth community was going to be decimated, Grangemouth was going
:11:13. > :11:16.to become a ghost town. I reject totally this idea there were
:11:17. > :11:23.loud-hailers and children involved. That is a lie perpetrated by the
:11:24. > :11:29.Daily Mail. But you have used these tactics in other disputes. We have
:11:30. > :11:35.used the tactics in other disputes, but we have not used loud-hailers at
:11:36. > :11:40.people's homes. Because the labour laws are so restrictive we have to
:11:41. > :11:47.look at every available means that we can protest. It is an outrage, an
:11:48. > :11:50.absolute outrage, that this is happening to British workers in the
:11:51. > :11:58.21st-century. It could not happen elsewhere. Is not intimidation the
:11:59. > :12:03.wider hallmark of your union? You were quoted as saying to do whatever
:12:04. > :12:11.it takes during your attempts to take over the Labour Falkirk
:12:12. > :12:20.constituency. You were instructing to dig out the nasty stuff on your
:12:21. > :12:26.opponents. That is not true. Let's see these e-mails? This is a con
:12:27. > :12:33.trick. Nobody is looking to dig out... This is the words of your
:12:34. > :12:38.legal services advisor. Unite has tried to instigate a revival of
:12:39. > :12:43.trade union values within the Labour Party. That is what Ed Miliband
:12:44. > :12:47.wanted us to do. As soon as we started to be in any way
:12:48. > :12:53.ineffective, there were screams and howls of derision. When the company
:12:54. > :12:58.started to investigate Stevie Deans, your friend, your campaign manager,
:12:59. > :13:04.that he was using company time to moonlight on the job, you called
:13:05. > :13:09.INEOS and said unless you stop the investigation we will bring
:13:10. > :13:16.Grangemouth to a standstill. I never said that at all. You brought it to
:13:17. > :13:24.a standstill. We never brought it to a standstill, the company did. Who
:13:25. > :13:29.says that I said that we would bring it to a standstill? You have read it
:13:30. > :13:35.in the newspapers. You should not believe everything. I did not make
:13:36. > :13:38.that threat to the management. You carried the threat out. You
:13:39. > :13:46.instigated an overtime ban and a work to rule. And that is what
:13:47. > :13:51.Grangemouth to a standstill because the company decided to close the
:13:52. > :13:57.petrochemical site down. Because Stevie Deans was suspended due
:13:58. > :14:04.introduced industrial action? Our members in Grangemouth felt he was
:14:05. > :14:08.being unfairly treated. In the end you're grandstanding almost cost
:14:09. > :14:14.Scotland is most important industrial facility. The day was
:14:15. > :14:18.saved by your total capitulation. Grandstanding, capitulation and
:14:19. > :14:27.humiliation are grand phrases. There is nothing about capitulation. Len
:14:28. > :14:33.McCluskey did not wake up one day and decide to have a dispute with
:14:34. > :14:37.INEOS. The workers in that factory democratically elect their shop
:14:38. > :14:41.stewards to represent them and to express to management their concerns
:14:42. > :14:49.and their views. That is what happened with INEOS. Jack Straw has
:14:50. > :14:55.condemned your union's handling of Grangemouth as a catastrophe. Have
:14:56. > :14:59.you considered your position? Jack Straw and others in the Labour
:15:00. > :15:05.Party, you have to ask them what their agenda is. I am not interested
:15:06. > :15:09.in what he says. The truth of the matter is we responded to the
:15:10. > :15:16.requirements and needs of our members. At a mass meeting last
:15:17. > :15:20.Monday 100% supported their shop stewards and their union. We will
:15:21. > :15:25.continue to stand shoulder to shoulder with our members when they
:15:26. > :15:31.are faced with difficult situations. You have lost all the union rights.
:15:32. > :15:38.You have had to agree to a no strike rule, you have lost pension rights.
:15:39. > :15:43.We have not lost rights at all, we are still working with the company
:15:44. > :15:48.to implement its survival plan. The Prime Minister is always attacking
:15:49. > :15:53.unions and just lately he has taken to praising the automotive
:15:54. > :16:01.industry. Jaguar Land Rover, Foxhall, BMW at Cowley, they are all
:16:02. > :16:03.Unite union members were the shop stewards are engaged positively to
:16:04. > :16:09.implement survival plans and to make a success for the company. That is
:16:10. > :16:13.what we do, but by the same token we stand shoulder to shoulder with our
:16:14. > :16:19.members who are in struggle and we will always do that and we will not
:16:20. > :16:24.be cowed by media attacks on us Is your leadership not proving to be as
:16:25. > :16:38.disastrous for the members as Arthur Scargill was for the NUM? My
:16:39. > :16:42.membership is growing. I am accountable to my members, two are
:16:43. > :16:45.executive, and the one thing they will know is that when they want me
:16:46. > :16:50.standing shoulder to shoulder with them when they have a problem, I
:16:51. > :17:05.will be there, despite the disgraceful attacks launched on us
:17:06. > :17:07.by the media. "A country ready to welcome your
:17:08. > :17:10.investment which values your friendship and will never exclude
:17:11. > :17:13.anyone because of their race, religion, colour or creed." The
:17:14. > :17:16.words of the Prime minister at the World Islamic Economic Forum which
:17:17. > :17:19.was hosted for the first time in London this week. The PM's warm
:17:20. > :17:21.words are sure to be welcomed by British Muslims who have endured a
:17:22. > :17:24.spate of negative headlines. There's been the controversy over the
:17:25. > :17:27.wearing of the veil, attitudes to women, and the radicalisation of
:17:28. > :17:30.some young British Muslims. In a moment I'll be talking to the
:17:31. > :17:40.Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain, Farooq Murad.
:17:41. > :17:44.First - here's Giles Dilnot. The call to Friday prayers at the east
:17:45. > :17:50.London Mosque which has strong links with the Muslim Council of Britain,
:17:51. > :17:54.one of the more vocal groups amongst British Muslims. Despite the fact it
:17:55. > :17:59.frequently happens, it is neither helpful nor accurate to describe the
:18:00. > :18:03.British Muslim community. There are so many different sects,
:18:04. > :18:07.traditions, cultures and nationalities, it is more accurate
:18:08. > :18:11.to describe the British Muslim communities, but there is one
:18:12. > :18:20.question being put to them - are they doing enough internally to
:18:21. > :18:24.address some challenging issues Are they willing to confront
:18:25. > :18:28.radicalisation, attitudes to non-muslins, two women, and cases of
:18:29. > :18:38.sexual exploitation in a meaningful way? A number of them say no, not
:18:39. > :18:44.nearly enough. This former jihad de has spent ten years telling young
:18:45. > :18:48.Muslim teenagers how they can reject extremist radicalisation, using
:18:49. > :18:55.Outward Bound courses and community work, but he and others doing this
:18:56. > :19:03.work thing -- think some elders are failing the youngsters. This has
:19:04. > :19:12.been going on for decades, one figures -- thing is said in public
:19:13. > :19:16.to please people but in private something very different is being
:19:17. > :19:22.said and the messages are being confused. Some of the young people,
:19:23. > :19:30.it pushes them further into a space where they are vulnerable for
:19:31. > :19:35.radical recruiters. For many Muslim youngsters, life is about living 1's
:19:36. > :19:40.faith within an increasingly secular society, a struggle not helped if
:19:41. > :19:48.rigid interpretations of the Koran are being preached, say some
:19:49. > :19:55.sectors. Some practices often don't make sense in 21st-century Britain,
:19:56. > :20:00.and you are perhaps creating obstacles if you stick to those and
:20:01. > :20:05.it is perhaps better to let go of those cultural problems, especially
:20:06. > :20:10.when they need to clear injustices like forced marriage, reticence to
:20:11. > :20:14.talk about grooming for example or discrimination against women. There
:20:15. > :20:20.is a long list but I am very clear that in fact the bad Muslim is the
:20:21. > :20:26.one who sticks to unflinching, narrow dogmatic fundamentalist
:20:27. > :20:37.perception of religion. One issue often focused on is the wearing of
:20:38. > :20:53.minicab. Polling suggests 80% of Britons would favour a ban in public
:20:54. > :21:04.places. -- the niqab. Many people don't seem to recognise the legacy
:21:05. > :21:08.of the niqab. Many people preach that women should be sidelined and
:21:09. > :21:10.that they are sexual objects that should be covered up and the
:21:11. > :21:16.preservation of morality falls on their shoulders. The Muslim Council
:21:17. > :21:20.of Britain recently got praise for holding a conference on combating
:21:21. > :21:26.sexual exploitation. In the wake of abuse cases that had involved
:21:27. > :21:33.predominantly Pakistani men. For one man who has followed the story for
:21:34. > :21:39.some years, the Muslim Council of Britain needs to do much more. We
:21:40. > :21:47.need to get along together and if things like attitudes towards the
:21:48. > :21:50.normal slim girl in stark contrast to the expression of honour and
:21:51. > :21:58.chastity of the Muslim girl, your sister or daughter, are such that
:21:59. > :22:03.actions that would be an fought off with a slim girl becomes permissible
:22:04. > :22:10.with a white girl, then we are all in trouble. To some, attitudes to
:22:11. > :22:14.women are not limited to sexual interactions at the very structures
:22:15. > :22:18.of life in Muslim communities and indeed the Muslim Council of Britain
:22:19. > :22:27.itself. I would like to ask the Muslim Council of Britain what they
:22:28. > :22:35.are doing about the fact that very few mosques give voices to
:22:36. > :22:35.are doing about the fact that very the fact that someone women are
:22:36. > :22:40.experiencing female genital mutilation and forced marriages
:22:41. > :22:43.what about the women who are getting married and their marriages are not
:22:44. > :22:49.being registered and they are being left homeless and denied maintenance
:22:50. > :22:51.rights, what about the fact there are sharia rights that have been
:22:52. > :22:56.found to be discriminating against women, and the fact there are men in
:22:57. > :23:02.this country who continue to hold misogynistic views about women, what
:23:03. > :23:08.are you doing? The occasional press release will not solve this problem
:23:09. > :23:12.of a deeply patriarchal community. That all of these issues can be
:23:13. > :23:17.exploited to the point of Islam phobia is not doubted, but many
:23:18. > :23:22.Muslims feel that unless the communities do tackle this openly, a
:23:23. > :23:29.big cultural gap will exist between the two.
:23:30. > :23:32.And the Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain, Farooq
:23:33. > :23:41.Murad, joins me now. One visible sign that sets muslins aside is the
:23:42. > :23:48.veils that cover women's faces. Do you think it makes them impossible
:23:49. > :23:56.to be part of mainstream society? The niqab is not an obligatory
:23:57. > :23:58.requirement. But do you accept that those who wear it are cutting
:23:59. > :24:13.themselves off from mainstream society? Some people do, and whilst
:24:14. > :24:15.wearing niqab, some of them are working in various walks of life
:24:16. > :24:20.successfully and it is seen as a faith requirement, but it is a red
:24:21. > :24:26.herring in the sense that it applies to such a small number of Muslim
:24:27. > :24:36.girls. For many Muslim preachers, isn't separation precisely the point
:24:37. > :24:40.of the niqab? Certainly not, if you look at the Muslim women in the
:24:41. > :24:49.public sphere, we have many very successful women. But not the ones
:24:50. > :24:57.who are veiled. Not in the public arena as such, but the veil is a
:24:58. > :25:03.practice which is practised by a very small number. Do you favour
:25:04. > :25:09.it? I personally think it is not a requirement. But do you think women
:25:10. > :25:14.should wear the veil? I think it is wrong to force women to wear the
:25:15. > :25:19.veil. I asked if in your opinion women should wear the veil? It is
:25:20. > :25:26.important not to force women to wear the veil. Should they of their free
:25:27. > :25:29.choice where the veil? A lot of individuals do things out of their
:25:30. > :25:35.free choice which I do not approve of, I don't think it is conducive it
:25:36. > :25:40.helps their cause, but I do not have the right to take their choice away
:25:41. > :25:45.from them. I am still unsure if you think it is a good thing or a bad
:25:46. > :25:49.thing. Are not many Muslim women in this country being forced by Muslim
:25:50. > :25:55.preachers and often their male relations who want to keep Muslim
:25:56. > :26:01.women their place? As I said, it is wrong for anyone to force Muslim
:26:02. > :26:09.women. But how would we ever know in a family if a woman was being
:26:10. > :26:14.forced? Exactly, we don't know what is going on in people 's homes and
:26:15. > :26:19.what pressure is being applied. I want you to look at this picture,
:26:20. > :26:24.very popular on Islamic websites, and it shows the women who is
:26:25. > :26:31.wearing the niqab having a straight route to heaven, and the other
:26:32. > :26:34.Muslim woman dressed in western gear condemned to hell. Do you consider
:26:35. > :26:44.that a proper message for Muslim women? Not at all, I don't. So any
:26:45. > :26:48.Islamic websites in Britain... The Muslim Council of Britain is an
:26:49. > :26:54.organisation of five affiliates from across the country and this is not
:26:55. > :27:00.coming from any of them. As I said, those minority views propagated by
:27:01. > :27:04.individuals should not be used to represent Muslim community. So that
:27:05. > :27:10.would not have the support of the Muslim Council of Britain? It would
:27:11. > :27:22.not have the support. What about the Muslim free school that requires
:27:23. > :27:29.children as young as 11 to wear a black veil outside of school? Do you
:27:30. > :27:38.agree with that? I am not sure exactly what the policy is... I have
:27:39. > :27:47.just told you, do you agree that girls as young as 11 should wear a
:27:48. > :27:53.black burka outside of school? I don't think it should be imposed on
:27:54. > :28:04.anybody. But this is the desired dress School of the Muslim females.
:28:05. > :28:10.I am asking for your view. I said it at the beginning that I do not think
:28:11. > :28:16.it should be imposed. Would you send your daughter to a school that would
:28:17. > :28:27.wear a black burka at the age of 11? Would you? No. It seems that some
:28:28. > :28:34.muslins are determined to segregate young Muslim girls right from the
:28:35. > :28:38.start to very early from society. It is not their segregation as such, I
:28:39. > :28:47.would say that there are faith schools, if you look at an Islamic
:28:48. > :28:52.girls school in Blackburn in a traditional setting, it has come the
:28:53. > :29:01.top of the league table this year in the secondary school league tables.
:29:02. > :29:04.But it doesn't make 11-year-olds wear black burkas. Many of those
:29:05. > :29:12.girls go on to have a successful career. Not wearing black burkas. I
:29:13. > :29:19.am sure there are examples of women who do have successful careers.
:29:20. > :29:31.There is a very conservative movement from the continent on
:29:32. > :29:35.Islam, and the issue supposedly based on Islamic law on their
:29:36. > :29:42.website. Here is one of their recent judgements. The female is encouraged
:29:43. > :29:46.to remain within the confines of her home as much as possible, she should
:29:47. > :29:51.not come out of the home without need and necessity. What do you
:29:52. > :29:56.think of that? We need to say the whole context of that quote. They
:29:57. > :30:06.are saying they should stay at home as much as possible, do you agree
:30:07. > :30:14.with that? I see many Muslim women who are walking about... But this is
:30:15. > :30:19.what the mosque is recommending women should do. The practice is
:30:20. > :30:41.quite the contrary. Let me show you another one. Another Fatwa. Do you
:30:42. > :30:45.agree with that? These have been picked out from material dating back
:30:46. > :30:51.to different cultural settings and in practice they are not applied.
:30:52. > :30:58.This is advice being given as we speak. This is not being practised.
:30:59. > :31:06.Do you agree with it? No, not at all. These are from the DL Monday
:31:07. > :31:17.mosques, how come 72 of these mosques are affiliated to your
:31:18. > :31:27.counsel? There may be publications from one of their scholars, but they
:31:28. > :31:32.have been written in countries abroad and translated. This is
:31:33. > :31:38.advice being given to young women now. They are affiliated to the
:31:39. > :31:44.Muslim Council of Britain. Do you ever speak to them about that? The
:31:45. > :31:51.Muslim Council is a very broad organisation. We are working on lots
:31:52. > :31:59.of common issues to create a community which positively
:32:00. > :32:06.integrates. Did you ever speak to them to say this is not appropriate
:32:07. > :32:09.for British Muslims? There may be certain ad buys and publications
:32:10. > :32:17.available, but people make their choices. So it is OK for your
:32:18. > :32:27.organisation to issue things like that? Many of these things will fall
:32:28. > :32:37.under scrutiny and we need to create that. Why do only 26% of British
:32:38. > :32:43.mosques have facilities for women? If you go back to the requirement of
:32:44. > :32:49.prayer, it was not obligatory for women to come to the masks to
:32:50. > :32:55.prayer. When a poorer community began putting up mosques at the very
:32:56. > :33:03.beginning in terraced houses... Did you have a policy to encourage them?
:33:04. > :33:13.Is it on your website? It is in our practices that 20% of the council
:33:14. > :33:18.have to be female. Coming out of this movement there is a conscious
:33:19. > :33:25.stream of superiority between Muslims and non-Muslims. Look at
:33:26. > :33:42.this quote. He is a well-known picture in this country.
:33:43. > :33:55.That is what he wants to stop. I disagree with that. We believe we
:33:56. > :34:00.live in this society and Muslims in any society of the world, and they
:34:01. > :34:05.have historically lived as minorities in many countries... You
:34:06. > :34:12.would this associate yourself from that? Why do you allow people like
:34:13. > :34:19.that to be affiliated to you? The requirement is for any organisation
:34:20. > :34:23.to be affiliated is that they are bound by the Charity commission s
:34:24. > :34:31.rules and regulations. We only accept those who are under the law
:34:32. > :34:39.of this country. This is a matter of taste. Let me move on to a bigger
:34:40. > :34:46.issue. In 2009 you signed the Istanbul dash-mac the Istanbul
:34:47. > :34:57.declaration was signed. Do you still support it? No, we never signed it
:34:58. > :35:06.or supported it. One of your leading lights signed it. In the media
:35:07. > :35:12.mainstream he defended his position. You have this associated yourself
:35:13. > :35:20.from it? What is wrong with that? I am not sure about the declaration
:35:21. > :35:29.because we disassociated ourselves. Before reading it? We did not sign
:35:30. > :35:35.it. You have not read it? I do not know all the aspects of the
:35:36. > :35:45.declaration, but at the time in the national newspapers and media there
:35:46. > :35:52.was a discussion and a debate and it was highlighted that that was not
:35:53. > :35:56.what was meant by the declaration. When did you decide so is the
:35:57. > :36:06.yourself from the declaration? From day one. We never signed it. The
:36:07. > :36:09.East London Mosque which you are personally closely associated with
:36:10. > :36:21.is the venue for a number of extremist speakers, who espoused
:36:22. > :36:26.extremist positions. In 2009 the mosque posted a video and
:36:27. > :36:31.presentation by somebody described by the UN Security Council as an
:36:32. > :36:35.Al-Qaeda leader supporter. Another speaker described Christians and
:36:36. > :36:40.Jews as Phil. You have had a jihad is supporter of the Taliban there.
:36:41. > :36:49.Why do you do nothing to stop extremists like that at this mask
:36:50. > :36:53.with which you are associated with? We do not have anything to do with
:36:54. > :36:59.any rhetoric that condones or supported violence. We issue
:37:00. > :37:04.guidelines and the mosque itself is a registered charity which has its
:37:05. > :37:08.own rules and regulations, but it is a very large mosques and lots of
:37:09. > :37:14.organisations book and come and told their gatherings. We rent out the
:37:15. > :37:26.facilities. You were prepared to speak alongside a man who saluted
:37:27. > :37:32.suicide bombers, and said 9/11 was a Zionist conspiracy. Why would you
:37:33. > :37:36.share a platform like that? I did not share a platform like that.
:37:37. > :37:44.Different organisations come and have conferences here. Why did you
:37:45. > :37:53.agree? I did not agree with that. I completely reject that. When you add
:37:54. > :37:59.all this up the attitude to women, the alliance with the most
:38:00. > :38:03.fundamentalist Islamic mosques, the toleration of intolerant views, a
:38:04. > :38:08.willingness for you to be counted among them, why should anybody of
:38:09. > :38:17.goodwill, either a Muslim or a non-Muslim, regard the MCB as a good
:38:18. > :38:24.force? It is an organisation which embraces different organisations
:38:25. > :38:29.which are affiliated in the Muslim community. You have taken snippets
:38:30. > :38:34.of certain individual views which are not the views of our affiliates.
:38:35. > :38:39.It would be unfair to represent our view based on those which you have
:38:40. > :38:47.highlighted in this programme. The work that we do is quite clear and
:38:48. > :38:52.is on our website. They are all associated with you, but we will
:38:53. > :38:54.have to leave it there. You are watching the Sunday Politics. Coming
:38:55. > :39:10.up: I will be talking to joke Hello, I'm Martyn Oates, coming up
:39:11. > :39:16.on the Sunday Politics in the South West... Seagulls. Meet the woman who
:39:17. > :39:22.feeds them and the councillor who wants to kill them. And for the next
:39:23. > :39:25.20 minutes, I'm joined by Ben Bradshaw, the Labour MP for Exeter
:39:26. > :39:32.and the Conservative MEP Julie Girling. Julie's fellow
:39:33. > :39:34.Conservative, South East Cornwall MP Sheryll Murray, kicked off Prime
:39:35. > :39:37.Minister's Questions this week, suggesting Ed Miliband should
:39:38. > :39:41.apologise for Labour's prediction that the Government's economic
:39:42. > :39:50.policy would result in job losses. Under this government, there are 1
:39:51. > :39:53.million new jobs. There is a quarry in South East Cornwall who are
:39:54. > :39:59.investing and training young people. We were told that the government
:40:00. > :40:05.programme would clearly leads to the disappearance of a million jobs. Is
:40:06. > :40:14.it not time for the party opposite to admit that they were wrong and
:40:15. > :40:20.apologise? Of course, he did not. This is a very self congratulate
:40:21. > :40:24.suggestion. She has a serious point. You have predicted this doom and
:40:25. > :40:36.gloom since 2010 and the opposite has happened. There have been fewer
:40:37. > :40:40.job losses and workers have absorbed their stagnant wages. That has been
:40:41. > :40:44.the trade`off. It has been a new phenomenon and is a reflection of
:40:45. > :40:50.the flexible Labour market. It is a sensible approach and I think we
:40:51. > :40:53.would rather see more jobs. The real story and the underlying reason why
:40:54. > :40:57.we are putting the blame on the cost of living crisis is that people are
:40:58. > :41:04.struggling. The cost of living is going up wages not. Are you
:41:05. > :41:10.admitting that they were right? No, I do not think we understood how the
:41:11. > :41:17.2008 crisis would affect our economy. It affected it in ways we
:41:18. > :41:24.could not predict. We had fewer job losses but falling living standards.
:41:25. > :41:30.This was formed by the global financial disaster of 2008. It is a
:41:31. > :41:36.phenomenon that has gone across the developed world. Julie, if you were
:41:37. > :41:43.to answer who calls this better, it it would be them and not you. No,
:41:44. > :41:48.there is no doubt that George Osborne's extreme austerity methods
:41:49. > :41:53.have been damaging to the economy. We had no growth for three years.
:41:54. > :41:58.When Labour left office, the economy was growing and then it stopped
:41:59. > :42:02.growing for three years. It has had a damaging long`term effect. Our
:42:03. > :42:06.economy is one of only two in the world, apart from Italy, that is
:42:07. > :42:16.still below the level in 2008. Julie, is this bad news? I do not
:42:17. > :42:23.see it this way. It is the case that the UK economy hosts some very
:42:24. > :42:27.difficult decisions. It was struggling in 2010, nobody is
:42:28. > :42:35.denying that, but what we did see, and to get back to Sheryll's point,
:42:36. > :42:44.we saw more jobs and people in work, here in our region. What we have not
:42:45. > :42:54.seen is that dive in jobs that was predicted. It is not the same in
:42:55. > :42:57.every developed country. I work in Europe and across Europe we see
:42:58. > :43:03.different levels in different countries. There are different
:43:04. > :43:06.trajectories and time frames. We are really the envy of most of Europe
:43:07. > :43:18.with one or two notable exceptions, such as Germany. The Labour market
:43:19. > :43:21.has held up in the recession. The New Homes Bonus is one of the
:43:22. > :43:24.government's flagship policies to get more badly`needed houses built.
:43:25. > :43:27.The financial incentive scheme has been running now for two years. This
:43:28. > :43:30.week, though, the Commons Public Accounts Committee said there was no
:43:31. > :43:38.evidence it's actually doing any good. Building new houses is an
:43:39. > :43:44.emotive issue but with the number being built way behind what it is
:43:45. > :43:51.said to be needed, the government is dangling a carrot for the New Homes
:43:52. > :43:55.Bonus. Councils have been rewarded for every empty home that has been
:43:56. > :44:01.brought back into use. Cornwall has done quite well. Questions are being
:44:02. > :44:05.asked about the fairness of the scheme and whether it is working.
:44:06. > :44:09.The money can be spent however councils would like and it is
:44:10. > :44:13.difficult to measure whether it is leading to more houses being built.
:44:14. > :44:17.A group of MPs said the government has failed to provide credible data
:44:18. > :44:26.to prove it is working. This is a very expensive programme. 7.5 p and
:44:27. > :44:35.pounds `` seven and a half billion pounds be spent to incentivise local
:44:36. > :44:43.authorities to build new homes. We do not know whether it is working
:44:44. > :44:47.and what was disturbing was that the departments responsible had not set
:44:48. > :44:52.up a proper evaluation to make sure the programme is achieving
:44:53. > :44:57.objectives. This is one of dozens of empty homes that will be lived in
:44:58. > :45:00.again. The council gets cash for every home added to the tax
:45:01. > :45:07.register, and only Birmingham has more. We were quick off the mark
:45:08. > :45:11.when the New Homes Bonus scheme was announced. We are working to provide
:45:12. > :45:17.lots of homes in the county, and that is why we were successful and
:45:18. > :45:21.got more money to do the job. We have properly got more of a crisis
:45:22. > :45:28.in Cornwall than other areas. It may be fair, it may not. It might be
:45:29. > :45:38.seen as a success story here but how's `` house`building is below
:45:39. > :45:42.targets. The government is planning to take some of the money away from
:45:43. > :45:48.councillors and give it to the local enterprise partnership instead. I am
:45:49. > :45:54.not hostile to the principle of a New Homes Bonus. However, if it is
:45:55. > :45:58.going to be diverted off and used for economic development, that is
:45:59. > :46:03.different to what the suggestion was in the beginning, which was an
:46:04. > :46:08.incentive to councils as planning and housing authorities to get on
:46:09. > :46:12.with house`building in their areas. In Cornwall, where the council
:46:13. > :46:17.stands to lose a third of their New Homes Bonus, there are reassurances.
:46:18. > :46:23.I am going to make a commitment that given the importance of having
:46:24. > :46:27.somewhere to live, if the enterprise grows and we have to bring more
:46:28. > :46:31.people in with engineering skills, they will need somewhere to live.
:46:32. > :46:36.Houses are just as important to us as they are to the council. The
:46:37. > :46:40.partnership will agree how to spend the money. The government is
:46:41. > :46:45.planning to agree on an evaluation of the scheme by next year. The
:46:46. > :46:50.Public Accounts Committee says more urgent action is needed with so much
:46:51. > :46:56.at stake. Everybody agrees with the need for more houses, it is very
:46:57. > :47:04.concerning, though, if the scheme is not delivering. I have a great deal
:47:05. > :47:09.of time for Margaret Hodge. She has lifted the bar for how the Commons
:47:10. > :47:16.scrutinises the government. I think we are jumping the gun a little,
:47:17. > :47:24.though. They have started a review already so to criticise them is a
:47:25. > :47:31.little bit premature. I understand the issues they are bringing up, and
:47:32. > :47:35.I would hope that we will see some serious analysis at Easter.
:47:36. > :47:48.Inevitably, a scheme like this that got off the blocks in 2011, houses
:47:49. > :47:54.are not built overnight, is good. The proof of the pudding will be
:47:55. > :47:58.over the next year or two. We will see whether it affects real change.
:47:59. > :48:02.I think to be fair to the government, Margaret Hodge's
:48:03. > :48:07.criticism was not that the scheme was not working but that it has not
:48:08. > :48:12.been evaluated yet. It has been going for three years now. My
:48:13. > :48:16.biggest concern is going to be the impact of the government is taking
:48:17. > :48:20.away a lot of this money and giving it to the local enterprise
:48:21. > :48:23.partnerships. In Exeter, that will lose us ?3 million and could
:48:24. > :48:29.jeopardise the city centre redevelopment. I think that is mad
:48:30. > :48:36.to do when this money is supposed to be incentivising. You know all about
:48:37. > :48:41.local government and you look at Cornwall, it has done quite well out
:48:42. > :48:45.of this. Counties like Devon and Dorset have huge amounts of money
:48:46. > :48:48.being taken away. They are not getting back much at the moment.
:48:49. > :48:54.They can't because they do not authorise house`building. Indeed,
:48:55. > :49:04.and there is a tension there between the two levels. In the decade since
:49:05. > :49:11.I became a counsellor, most councils are virtual one level counties and
:49:12. > :49:14.work together very closely. The enterprise is part of that
:49:15. > :49:18.partnership and they are all working for the benefit of their community.
:49:19. > :49:25.They should be moving in the same direction. I would think that in
:49:26. > :49:30.most areas you will get cooperation and people will not lose out. If the
:49:31. > :49:33.city centre project in Exeter is important to the whole community
:49:34. > :49:38.then the enterprise partnership will be on board. I have every confidence
:49:39. > :49:44.with enterprises across the south`west. Some are better than
:49:45. > :49:50.others and that is the problem. You do get rioted. You might say that if
:49:51. > :50:01.you get localism, you get local authorities. Yes. The local
:50:02. > :50:07.enterprise in our area has not got a good reputation. They are all
:50:08. > :50:14.opposed to this and I hope Eric pickles will think again. If you
:50:15. > :50:20.look at a rural authority like Devon, your Conservative
:50:21. > :50:25.colleague... Is very unhappy about a! He is very unhappy about a! He's
:50:26. > :50:34.extremely unhappy about it! I think the point there is that it is OK and
:50:35. > :50:41.maybe some more thinking needs to go in. As someone who works in a local
:50:42. > :50:45.authority, I know how difficult that can be. You do have to work together
:50:46. > :50:55.and I hope the government are listening to that, and I am sure
:50:56. > :50:58.they are. You can see why local authorities do not like
:50:59. > :51:05.house`building. I think house`building is integral to the
:51:06. > :51:11.local economy. It is important because it stimulates growth and
:51:12. > :51:19.stimulator the economy. I do not think that people should not be
:51:20. > :51:23.concerned with housing. We cover parts of Somerset so in theory, many
:51:24. > :51:29.that is raised in Exeter could be spent on projects in Somerset that
:51:30. > :51:36.has nothing to do with housing. The original idea was to incense as I is
:51:37. > :51:40.`` encourage house`building. If you cut that money in half, it will go
:51:41. > :51:46.backwards again. We need more affordable housing. To many the cry
:51:47. > :51:49.of the seagull and the sight of them floating on the breeze are an
:51:50. > :51:52.evocative part of seaside life. They're much less attractive, of
:51:53. > :51:56.course, when they're dive`bombing toddlers. This week one South West
:51:57. > :51:59.council held a Seagull Summit to debate the problem of nuisance
:52:00. > :52:02.gulls, and with even the RSPB reporting a huge increase in
:52:03. > :52:07.complaints, some say we should start killing them. John Henderson
:52:08. > :52:14.reports. For some, the beach is no longer
:52:15. > :52:19.safe. At any moment, there could be a strike from Saint Ives to
:52:20. > :52:30.Sidmouth. There is fear at the seaside. The predator is not from
:52:31. > :52:51.below but attacks from above. Seagulls, for some, the mess. `` a
:52:52. > :53:00.menace. Whether it is wrong, I do not know. She is there and I feed
:53:01. > :53:06.her. Perhaps it says somebody's ice cream! For many, they are a pest and
:53:07. > :53:11.ruin a day out. They spoil people's sleep with squawking. This summer,
:53:12. > :53:20.they seem to be public enemy number one. Postman were attacked. One cafe
:53:21. > :53:28.issued customers with water pistols to fend off hungry gulls. Back in
:53:29. > :53:35.Sidmouth, some safe things have got so bad that it is time for real
:53:36. > :53:39.guns. Time for a seagull cull. It is getting out of hand and they are no
:53:40. > :53:45.longer in their natural environment, but they are adapting to our
:53:46. > :53:51.environment too well. A cull words enable us to get back within the
:53:52. > :53:58.right numbers. It would stop them growing as fast as they have. A cull
:53:59. > :54:03.is necessary. Shooting gulls is illegal and police were called in
:54:04. > :54:08.when birds were found in this area. They are wild birds and they are
:54:09. > :54:12.protected by law. There are certain exceptions such as farmers killing
:54:13. > :54:19.birds who damage crops, and birds whose red diseases or to caused a
:54:20. > :54:24.danger for aircraft. Permits to kill are covered under general licences
:54:25. > :54:28.which have strict terms. The RSPB say there are no exceptions which
:54:29. > :54:34.allow birds to be killed for being noisy being a nuisance. The society
:54:35. > :54:46.did not attend this week's seagull summit. We need to learn how to live
:54:47. > :54:53.with the birds. We should not see them as a problem. Let's deal with
:54:54. > :54:57.the big problem. The RSPB says there has been a threefold increase in
:54:58. > :55:02.complaints about seagulls this year compared to last. Sidmouth is not
:55:03. > :55:07.alone when it comes to struggling with gulls. Some advocate a cull and
:55:08. > :55:12.others take a different approach, arguing that they will continue
:55:13. > :55:25.feeding birds and there is no law to stop them. You have dealt with this
:55:26. > :55:29.kind of thing at DEFRA. There is always a case to keep these things
:55:30. > :55:36.under review and there is a growing problem with seagulls. I live by the
:55:37. > :55:44.sea and there are more gulls. There are problems with VCs on the
:55:45. > :55:49.pavement as well. If there was a cull, the population would come in
:55:50. > :55:53.from elsewhere. I think there are better ways to deal with them. Stop
:55:54. > :56:02.people feeding them. You should not feed these seagulls or wild birds.
:56:03. > :56:06.Swans as well. It is fine having a bird table in your garden but do not
:56:07. > :56:12.encourage these birds to come in. There are ways of deterring them. A
:56:13. > :56:18.cull is not the answer. Feeding them does not help but I did not give my
:56:19. > :56:24.sandwich to a seagull in Sidmouth! They are extremely bold. Yes, they
:56:25. > :56:29.are. One of the reasons they have come into cities is because of the
:56:30. > :56:33.availability of food. People do not deal with their rubbish properly and
:56:34. > :56:44.there is more food being thrown around. You should remove the other
:56:45. > :56:48.sources of food and the reasons they come into the city in the first
:56:49. > :56:53.place. Reduce their nesting opportunities as well. They are more
:56:54. > :56:58.practical solutions to the problem but there is no doubt that there is
:56:59. > :57:02.a problem and I hope the RSPB are keeping an eye on this because I am
:57:03. > :57:08.getting more letters about this. Any arguments for a cull? I hate
:57:09. > :57:17.seagulls. They terrify me! I would like to see a lot less of them. The
:57:18. > :57:21.idea of a cull is an appalling prospect at the seaside. I do not
:57:22. > :57:26.think that will happen. We have got to find another way. In Gloucester,
:57:27. > :57:33.many years ago, there was a huge problem with seagulls. This is the
:57:34. > :57:38.problem. We have accepted them as part of the seaside. They had
:57:39. > :57:44.problems in Birmingham. We had a programme of poisoning their eggs
:57:45. > :57:48.and I cannot remember how it exactly works but you can stop them from
:57:49. > :57:56.reading that way. That worked for a while and the population went down
:57:57. > :58:04.`` breeding. The right thing to do is ask people not to feed them. Do
:58:05. > :58:10.you think a law is needed? I think you need a bylaw. A bylaw on feeding
:58:11. > :58:18.might be appropriate in some places. You have to deal with it on a
:58:19. > :58:21.case`by`case basis. They have stopped people feeding the pigeons
:58:22. > :58:28.in Trafalgar Square. That is a more sensible approach than a cull. Yes,
:58:29. > :58:32.a cull would be difficult but something has to be done. Let's
:58:33. > :58:36.behave more sensibly and be careful with our litter but it will not stop
:58:37. > :58:39.them swooping down on a child and grabbing their ice cream. It
:58:40. > :58:42.happened to me and it was distressing! Now our regular
:58:43. > :58:55.round`up of the political week in sixty seconds.
:58:56. > :58:59.Calls to put nurses behind the chemist's counter to relieve
:59:00. > :59:05.accident and emergency departments. I am keen to make more use of
:59:06. > :59:11.pharmacies without putting pressure on services. Campaigning for egg
:59:12. > :59:16.crackdown on adult entertainment in Newquay. Some pubs and clubs in my
:59:17. > :59:20.constituency have been exploiting the loophole in the act that you
:59:21. > :59:27.have referred to. This puts patrons at risk. As well as performers.
:59:28. > :59:39.Concerns that Cornwall have struggled to provide free school
:59:40. > :59:44.meals for the under eights. The government denies plans to lower the
:59:45. > :59:51.minimum sugar content in jam. We are not stopping anyone putting 60% in.
:59:52. > :59:56.It is a minimum level and means producers will have greater
:59:57. > :00:04.flexibility. As well as being a DEFRA Minister,
:00:05. > :00:08.you are a Health Minister. Can we solve the accident and emergency
:00:09. > :00:16.crisis by persuading people to go to the pharmacy instead? No. I am all
:00:17. > :00:19.for supporting the use of pharmacies but you would have to have full`time
:00:20. > :00:24.nurses in that and have enough work for them to do. Most of the problems
:00:25. > :00:31.in hospitals are at the weekends when pharmacies are not open. It
:00:32. > :00:39.seems a nonsense to move resources from walk`in clinics. There are
:00:40. > :00:44.difficulties for people getting to see their GP at times as well. The
:00:45. > :00:51.Health Secretary says accident and emergency departments have never
:00:52. > :01:03.been stronger. Is there a problem? I think an individual's experience
:01:04. > :01:14.varies. Is there an overload on ana? `` accident and emergency? This
:01:15. > :01:20.issue comes up again and again. I have heard different stories across
:01:21. > :01:26.the region. In some places, A is under pressure and in other areas it
:01:27. > :01:31.is less so. We have two try and reduce... People do go to A with
:01:32. > :01:34.minor issues that we have to look at how GPs operate and perhaps using
:01:35. > :01:39.pharmacies as a way of dealing with minor injuries is a good thing, I do
:01:40. > :01:44.not know. I have not looked into it. I think it is a good idea to
:01:45. > :01:50.bring up and think about. That's the Sunday Politics in the South West.
:01:51. > :01:58.Thanks to my guests Ben and Julie. We did not discuss the jam, I am
:01:59. > :01:59.sorry. It is the British government that wants to
:02:00. > :02:16.Thank you for coming, great to see you. Andrew, back to you. Labour 's
:02:17. > :02:29.relationship with Unite and other issues all to be discussed in the
:02:30. > :02:33.Week Ahead and we're joined now by the shadow business secretary Chuka
:02:34. > :02:36.Umunna. First I would like to get your reaction to the interview I did
:02:37. > :02:39.earlier with the General Secretary of the union Unite - Len McCluskey.
:02:40. > :02:43.Let's look at what he said. This is a trap being laid by Tory Central
:02:44. > :02:47.office. They are making all of the demands and the Daily Mail, the
:02:48. > :02:52.Sunday Times, are you telling me they are not the conservative
:02:53. > :02:56.mouthpiece in the media? They are laying traps for Ed Miliband and he
:02:57. > :03:02.should not fall into them. Though it is all a Tory plot. Len McCluskey
:03:03. > :03:08.denies a lot of the allegations put, but let me be clear in an industrial
:03:09. > :03:13.dispute, the use of aggressive or intimidatory tactics by either side
:03:14. > :03:19.is totally unacceptable. Do you think it is wrong for Unite to send
:03:20. > :03:22.its members to the homes of managers? I don't know what happened
:03:23. > :03:27.in that particular case, but I think you should keep people 's families
:03:28. > :03:31.out of these things and if you are doing something that can upset
:03:32. > :03:38.particularly children, that is a bad thing. I know he denied a number of
:03:39. > :03:42.things you put to him. We now know some of the content of Labour 's own
:03:43. > :03:47.report into what happened at Falkirk and they found all sorts of things -
:03:48. > :03:55.forgery, coercion, trickery and even that their own investigation was
:03:56. > :04:08.being thwarted by Unite. What should Labour do next? I have not read the
:04:09. > :04:13.report. We are told that the latest allegations that have been made is
:04:14. > :04:15.something that the police are looking into so that is not
:04:16. > :04:27.something I think would be appropriate for me to comment on. We
:04:28. > :04:31.learned Labour Party members in the Falkirk constituency have complained
:04:32. > :04:36.to the leader of the Scottish party about a lack of action by the Labour
:04:37. > :04:47.Party on what happened in Falkirk. I am not part of the Scottish party
:04:48. > :04:49.and that is news to me. But the police have indicated they are
:04:50. > :04:54.looking at the new information that has come to light. It is a bit like
:04:55. > :04:57.the 1980s and there was an electrifying moment when Neil
:04:58. > :05:03.Kinnock took on the militant tendency in Bournemouth in 1985 Ed
:05:04. > :05:09.Miliband has sort of tried to take on the Unite union, but it has not
:05:10. > :05:15.worked. Does then not need to be an electrifying moment for Ed Miliband?
:05:16. > :05:18.Your own paper has praised him for seeking to address the issues we
:05:19. > :05:25.have in politics and the disconnection from people. In many
:05:26. > :05:30.respects the situation in Falkirk categorises the process of further
:05:31. > :05:35.ongoing change where we are trying to establish a better relationship
:05:36. > :05:40.with individual trade union members. In parts of my constituency, some of
:05:41. > :05:45.the most deprived parts, we had people queueing round the block to
:05:46. > :05:50.vote. I do not think the issue is that people are not political, but
:05:51. > :05:55.they have never felt so far from party politics as they do now and
:05:56. > :06:00.that is why Ed Miliband announced this big chains about how we do
:06:01. > :06:03.things in the Labour Party, so we change structures in the Labour
:06:04. > :06:07.Party that were set up in the 2 th century. The reform of the way in
:06:08. > :06:12.which we connect and our relationship with the union puts us
:06:13. > :06:19.in a good position because we have this relationship between the 3
:06:20. > :06:28.million working people who ensure our public services function. At
:06:29. > :06:33.Grangemouth INEOS stood up to unite. At Grangemouth and Falkirk
:06:34. > :06:42.Labour rolled over to the Unite union. I do not agree with that I'd
:06:43. > :06:49.just explained the reason. I do not think it is fair to ask people to
:06:50. > :06:52.give evidence in an enquiry on the basis of the report will be
:06:53. > :06:57.confidential and then to publish it after. But if somebody is trying to
:06:58. > :07:04.take over a Labour constituency to send an MP of their choice to our
:07:05. > :07:11.Parliament, that should not be secret, that should be public. Ed
:07:12. > :07:16.Miliband acted very decisively. That constituency party is still in
:07:17. > :07:20.special measures as I understand it. This idea that somehow the Unite
:07:21. > :07:28.union runs the Labour Party, they do not. The special measures mean
:07:29. > :07:36.according to Eric Joyce, that an ally of Stevie Deans is chairing the
:07:37. > :07:41.meeting. I am interested in the Tory suggestion that they would offer
:07:42. > :07:48.free Tory party membership to union members. I then moving onto your
:07:49. > :07:56.turf? We do not know exactly all the facts and the truth of the
:07:57. > :08:01.allegations that have been made On your point I think it is healthy the
:08:02. > :08:06.Conservatives are looking to recruit trade union members. A lot of their
:08:07. > :08:14.rhetoric is very negative in respect of trade unions. If you look at
:08:15. > :08:21.Unison a third of the members vote Conservative. In Unite union some of
:08:22. > :08:27.their members vote Tory. I think trade unions have a lot to bring to
:08:28. > :08:31.our country. It is one of the things many up and down the country will
:08:32. > :08:36.find very frustrating, a lot of the good work that unions do if it gets
:08:37. > :08:43.tarnished with all the negative stuff you see... Unite are working
:08:44. > :08:47.in partnership with GM and the senior management in Ellesmere Port
:08:48. > :08:52.and the government ensured that we kept that plant open. That gets
:08:53. > :08:58.overlooked by all of this. Do you not think the bolshie behaviour from
:08:59. > :09:03.unions are motivated not by strength, but by weakness. Unite
:09:04. > :09:08.know they cannot paralyse the country in the way their forebears
:09:09. > :09:13.used to be able to do. Their penetration rates in the private
:09:14. > :09:19.sector is 11%. The union movement is weaker than it was before I was
:09:20. > :09:23.born. Some of that truck killers and bad behaviour either death spasms of
:09:24. > :09:30.their movement rather than something that is motivated by the fact they
:09:31. > :09:38.can't paralyse the country. You have two increase the membership. But
:09:39. > :09:42.there is an issue about the public perception of trade unions. It is
:09:43. > :09:48.right they should be a voice of protest and anger and stand up for
:09:49. > :09:54.their members when it is necessary. But people join unions for their
:09:55. > :09:59.aspiration. The unions do a lot so that people can move up in their
:10:00. > :10:06.workplace. That profile needs to come across as strongly as the
:10:07. > :10:10.protest part. I want to move on to business. The head of the CBI has
:10:11. > :10:18.said that Labour's pro-enterprise credentials have suffered a setback.
:10:19. > :10:22.He said that in relation to Ed Miliband's speech. I was on the
:10:23. > :10:26.radio earlier. If you look at the things in the speech, some of that
:10:27. > :10:31.was going to be uncomfortable for some of the countries and they tend
:10:32. > :10:37.to be companies represented by the CBI, like energy companies, like
:10:38. > :10:45.land developers, a lot of the big business lose out from is not doing
:10:46. > :10:48.the corporate tax cut. The energy freeze is going to help over 2.
:10:49. > :10:54.million businesses that have been hit by high energy bills. The
:10:55. > :10:59.business community has said we had to bring the public sector finances
:11:00. > :11:05.back into balance. That is why we decided to switch the money being
:11:06. > :11:10.used to reduce corporation tax and use that to help a much greater
:11:11. > :11:18.variety of businesses by doing a business rate cut. It is all pro
:11:19. > :11:25.enterprise. They also seem to be critical of your new idea of a
:11:26. > :11:29.living wage. They are not critical. It would not be compulsory, but
:11:30. > :11:34.there would be a tax credit if they paid it. It is good for business
:11:35. > :11:41.because if people are earning more than they are more productive. It is
:11:42. > :11:47.good for the employee and good for us as well because it means we are
:11:48. > :11:52.not having to subsidise people to be paid to the extent we have with tax
:11:53. > :12:00.credits and benefits. Everybody benefits from this. We all know
:12:01. > :12:11.after 2009 we need to have bold change. Does Labour paid a living
:12:12. > :12:15.wage? We have got over 20 of our councils signed up to doing so and
:12:16. > :12:23.we have made commitments in respect to Whitehall. Does the Labour Party
:12:24. > :12:37.pay it? I believe so. Would it not be worth checking? Do you get a
:12:38. > :12:44.living wage? Yes, of course I do. I understand we paid a living wage.
:12:45. > :12:49.What does it feel like for Tristram Hunt who has taken over your mantle
:12:50. > :12:57.as Labour's next leader? Is that a relieved or are you angry? He is one
:12:58. > :13:01.of my best friends and at the end of the day if we got obsessed with this
:13:02. > :13:05.soap opera stuff we would never get anything done and we are working
:13:06. > :13:16.together to make sure we have got the right skills in our workforce.
:13:17. > :13:24.That is all for today. The daily politics is on all week. I will be
:13:25. > :13:29.here again next weekend at 12:2 pm after the Remembrance Day service at
:13:30. > :13:58.the Cenotaph. Remember if it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.
:13:59. > :14:03.Planet Earth - it's unique. It has life.
:14:04. > :14:11.To understand why, we're going to build a planet...up there.
:14:12. > :14:14.There were the objects that were making the Earth.
:14:15. > :14:17.We're now weightless. That's how our planet started.
:14:18. > :14:20.Your arms are a little bit long Is that as small as they go?
:14:21. > :14:24.This is like every shopping trip I've ever been on.