:00:34. > :00:37.Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics, where we're talking
:00:38. > :00:46.about the Europe-wide contest that really matters. No, not Eurovision.
:00:47. > :00:49.The European elections. There are local elections across England too
:00:50. > :00:53.on May 22nd. The party leaders are campaigning ahead of polling day.
:00:54. > :00:59.The results could be a pointer to the Big One, May 2015. We'll be
:01:00. > :01:02.speaking to the man in charge of Labour's election battle plan. Has
:01:03. > :01:06.the opposition really got its sights set on all-out victory in 2015? Or
:01:07. > :01:12.will it just be content with squeaking home? And you can't
:01:13. > :01:17.mention elections these days without talking about the impact of this
:01:18. > :01:23.In the South West: the UKIP MEP him if UKIP really
:01:24. > :01:25.In the South West: the UKIP MEP facing questions about land he gave
:01:26. > :01:26.to a family company before ht facing questions about land he gave
:01:27. > :01:26.to a family company before it was to a family company before it was
:01:27. > :01:40.offered to a wind farm developer. And I'm joined by three journalists
:01:41. > :01:43.guaranteed to bring a touch of Eurovision glamour to your Sunday
:01:44. > :01:46.morning. With views more controversial than a bearded
:01:47. > :01:56.Austrian drag act and twice the dress sense, it's Nick Watt, Helen
:01:57. > :01:58.Lewis and Janan Ganesh. So you might have thought you've already heard
:01:59. > :02:02.David Cameron promise an in-out referendum on EU membership in 2017
:02:03. > :02:08.if he's still Prime Minister. Many times. Many, many times. Well he
:02:09. > :02:11.obviously doesn't think you've been listening, because he's been saying
:02:12. > :02:15.it again today. Here he is speaking to the BBC earlier. We will hold a
:02:16. > :02:20.referendum by the end of 2017. It will be a referendum on an in-out
:02:21. > :02:23.basis. Do we stay in a reformed European Union or do we leave? And
:02:24. > :02:26.I've said very clearly that whatever the outcome of the next election,
:02:27. > :02:29.and of course I want an overall majority and I'm hoping and
:02:30. > :02:33.believing I can win an overall majority, that people should be in
:02:34. > :02:34.no doubt I will not become Prime Minister unless I can guarantee that
:02:35. > :02:45.we will hold a referendum. Here s we will hold a referendum. Here's
:02:46. > :02:49.saying there that an overall majority there will definitely be a
:02:50. > :02:52.referendum. If these are the minority position, he won't form a
:02:53. > :02:58.new coalition unless they agree to a referendum, too. The Lib Dems a
:02:59. > :03:00.pulmonary agree to that. They probably will because the Prime
:03:01. > :03:04.ministers have a strong argument which is I gave you a referendum
:03:05. > :03:07.back in 2010 so the least I need is theirs and the Lib Dems are the only
:03:08. > :03:12.party who have stood in recent elections on a clear mandate to hold
:03:13. > :03:15.a referendum, so it is difficult for them to say no, there was
:03:16. > :03:20.interesting the interview he did earlier today. He named everything
:03:21. > :03:25.was going to ask for. The most controversial with him, as he said
:03:26. > :03:30.in his speech last year, he wants to take Britain out of the commitment
:03:31. > :03:34.to make the European Union and ever closer union. That is a very big
:03:35. > :03:38.ask, but the point is, he may well get it because the choice for the
:03:39. > :03:43.European Union now, France and Germany, is a clear wonderful do
:03:44. > :03:47.Britain in or out? Previously, it was can you put up with a British
:03:48. > :03:51.prime ministers being annoying? I think you'll find the answer is they
:03:52. > :03:56.are willing to pay a price but not any price to keep Britain in. In
:03:57. > :04:01.this scenario, Labour would have lost the election again because we
:04:02. > :04:04.are talking the slowly happen if Mr Cameron is the largest party or has
:04:05. > :04:10.an overall majority. Could you then see Labour deciding we had better go
:04:11. > :04:12.along with a referendum, too? I think that's unlikely because as I
:04:13. > :04:15.think that's unlikely because there's a huge upside for that for I
:04:16. > :04:19.think what's interesting is the idea he would for minority government.
:04:20. > :04:23.Would you get confidence and look at other options that might well happen
:04:24. > :04:26.with the way the arithmetic is going or is he going to hold out and say
:04:27. > :04:30.the only way I will be Prime Minister is in a majority
:04:31. > :04:35.Conservative government? No, the implication of his remarks was I
:04:36. > :04:39.wouldn't form a coalition government unless my coalition partners would
:04:40. > :04:42.also agree to vote for a referendum. He's basically talking about is
:04:43. > :04:48.negotiating strategy in those coalition talks. It's a red line and
:04:49. > :04:51.a huge opportunity for the Lib Dems, because they know David Cameron
:04:52. > :04:57.absolutely has to do, for accidental reasons, as a person who survives as
:04:58. > :05:00.Tory leader, to ask for that referendum, so they can ask anything
:05:01. > :05:04.they want in return and if I was Nick Clegg, I would work out in the
:05:05. > :05:11.next year one absolute colossal negotiating demand for those
:05:12. > :05:14.coalition talks. For a party around 10% in the polls, they will do have
:05:15. > :05:24.the Prime Minister over a barrel on this one, assuming that coalition
:05:25. > :05:29.talks goes well. They could make Michael Gove Tbyte meeting. OK, we
:05:30. > :05:33.need to move on. So, the politicians are out and about on what used to be
:05:34. > :05:36.called the stump ahead of local and European elections in less than two
:05:37. > :05:38.weeks' time. But, without wanting to depress you on a damp Sunday
:05:39. > :05:41.morning, the party strategists are already hard at work on their
:05:42. > :05:45.campaign plans for the General Election next May. Yes, it's less
:05:46. > :05:47.than a year to go. They may have taken their time, but Labour's
:05:48. > :05:50.battleplan for 2015 is starting to take shape. As well as take
:05:51. > :05:53.promising to freeze your energy bills, and reintroduce the 50p rate
:05:54. > :05:58.of tax, Ed Miliband now says he wants to intervene in the housing
:05:59. > :06:02.market to keep rents down. There's even talk that the party leadership
:06:03. > :06:08.wants to bring more railway lines into public ownership. And Labour is
:06:09. > :06:10.gambling that its big push on the cost of living will see it through
:06:11. > :06:14.to the general election despite evidence that growth is firmly back.
:06:15. > :06:20.Labour's campaign chief Douglas Alexander hopes it all adds up to
:06:21. > :06:25.victory next May. But so far, the evidence is hitting home very thin.
:06:26. > :06:30.One survey today shows that 56% of people don't think Mr Miliband is up
:06:31. > :06:33.to the job of Prime Minister. As we head towards one of the least
:06:34. > :06:39.predictable general elections in 70 years, has Labour got a message to
:06:40. > :06:41.win seats up and down the country? And Labour's election co-ordinator
:06:42. > :06:47.and Shadow Foreign Secretary, Douglas Alexander, joins me now.
:06:48. > :06:50.Douglas Alexander, joins me now Welcome to Sunday Politics. A lot of
:06:51. > :06:54.these policies announced polar pretty well. By popular with the
:06:55. > :07:00.country. When you add them together, it's a move to the left and what
:07:01. > :07:03.would be wrong with that? I think is your packet suggests, the contours
:07:04. > :07:09.in the coming campaign are becoming clear. Our judgement is the defining
:07:10. > :07:12.issue of the year in British politics will be the widening gap
:07:13. > :07:15.between the wealth of the country and the finances of ordinary
:07:16. > :07:19.families. We believe it will be a cost of living election and we have
:07:20. > :07:22.been setting out our thinking in relation to energy prices and rent,
:07:23. > :07:26.but you will hear more from Labour Party in the coming months because
:07:27. > :07:30.we're now less than one year away from a decisive moment. If the
:07:31. > :07:35.leftish think tank suggested any of his policies in that Tony Blair
:07:36. > :07:41.years, you would have opposed them. Let's be clear, when not going for
:07:42. > :07:44.an interest but seeking to secure a majority for the only way to do that
:07:45. > :07:47.is not simply to appeal to your base, but to the centre ground. I
:07:48. > :07:53.believe we got genuine opportunities in the next year. You have the
:07:54. > :07:57.Conservatives in a struggle with UKIP on the right of politics. The
:07:58. > :08:01.Lib Dems 9% of trying to find their base, and there's a genuine
:08:02. > :08:06.opportunity in the next year for Labour to dominate the centre ground
:08:07. > :08:10.of politics and secure the majority Labour government we are planning
:08:11. > :08:20.for in the coming year. I notice you didn't deny you wouldn't have
:08:21. > :08:24.opposed. You say you have got an message for aspirational voters in
:08:25. > :08:27.the South. This is what John Denham said. He thinks you're talking too
:08:28. > :08:43.much to your core vote. He is right to recognise we took a
:08:44. > :08:46.terrible beating in 2010. 29%. If you look at what we've done in the
:08:47. > :08:52.last week, for example, the signature policy on rent Ed Miliband
:08:53. > :08:55.announced to launch the campaign, there's now more than 9 million
:08:56. > :09:00.people in the country in the private rented sector, more than 1 million
:09:01. > :09:02.families. Many of them are in the south-east. They are seeing
:09:03. > :09:08.circumstances where, suddenly, landlord will increase the rent and
:09:09. > :09:12.they put the pressure involved in schooling, health care facing the
:09:13. > :09:15.families, so it is important both in terms of policy and in terms of
:09:16. > :09:19.politics that we speak to the whole country, not simply to one part of
:09:20. > :09:27.it falls up what is the average rise in event last year? I don't know.
:09:28. > :09:34.Can you tell me? 1%. 1% not in real terms. I'm not sure what the problem
:09:35. > :09:38.is. It will happen to wages in last year, we are facing circumstances
:09:39. > :09:44.where people will be worse off, up to ?1600 off worse and frankly, if
:09:45. > :09:49.our opponents want to argue that the economy has healed and they deserve
:09:50. > :09:53.a victory lap, good luck to them because actually, what we are
:09:54. > :09:55.hearing from the Buddhist public, not just in the north and south,
:09:56. > :09:55.hearing from the Buddhist public, not just in the north and south is
:09:56. > :10:00.not just in the north and south, is not the cost living crisis is
:10:01. > :10:02.continuing and it affects families. There was nothing aspirational about
:10:03. > :10:07.your party election broadcast for the European elections. It looked
:10:08. > :10:12.like crude class war to money people. That's a bit of it. Bedroom
:10:13. > :10:16.tax. Isn't it going to look bad that two thirds of those affected are
:10:17. > :10:22.disabled? Who cares? They can't fight back. Shall be lay-offs and
:10:23. > :10:36.NHS nurses? The National Health Service? Oh yes. Mr Cameron? Who
:10:37. > :10:40.said that? Me. My gosh. The man has shrunk. He's actually shrunk. What
:10:41. > :10:48.shall we do with him? Can we hunt him? Nothing about Europe, Labour
:10:49. > :10:53.policy. News that the Tories would result in negative campaigning and
:10:54. > :10:57.smear. You didn't tell you would be just as bad. Let's start the party
:10:58. > :11:03.broadcast. The one thing guaranteed to have most people reaching for the
:11:04. > :11:07.remote control these days are the words, there now follows a party but
:11:08. > :11:12.the broadcast. I make no apology in the factory to be innovative in how
:11:13. > :11:15.we presented. It's factual. It was a policy -based critic of this
:11:16. > :11:21.government. And the Lib Dems role within it. So you're claiming it's
:11:22. > :11:29.factual to betray the camera and cabinet is not even knowing what the
:11:30. > :11:33.NHS is, -- the Cameron Cabinet. They attack the disabled because they
:11:34. > :11:38.can't fight back. The Pinellas Tanner severely Prime Minister Sun
:11:39. > :11:44.and he was treated during a short life by the NHS. It's a fact many
:11:45. > :11:47.disabled people across the country including in my constituency have
:11:48. > :11:51.been directly affected by the bedroom tax. And ultimately, this
:11:52. > :11:55.Conservative led government, including the Lib Dems, will be held
:11:56. > :12:00.accountable by the politicians. You say that, the Prime Minister, who
:12:01. > :12:05.had a severely disabled son of. I you not ashamed about? I shadowed
:12:06. > :12:10.Iain Duncan Smith of five months also they don't have the excuses of
:12:11. > :12:14.seeing that saying nobody told them the consequences of the bedroom tax.
:12:15. > :12:19.They went into this with their eyes open. They knew about the hardship
:12:20. > :12:21.and difficulty. If they were one-bedroom properties available
:12:22. > :12:26.across the country for people to move into, their argument would be
:12:27. > :12:29.OK but they knew they were dealing with the most vulnerable people.
:12:30. > :12:31.OK but they knew they were dealing with the most vulnerable people Did
:12:32. > :12:37.you sign off that part of the broadcast? Of course I stand by the
:12:38. > :12:41.fact of it. I wish David Cameron and Iain Duncan Smith would apologise to
:12:42. > :12:44.the disabled people of the country and the poorest people for the
:12:45. > :12:50.effects of the bedroom tax. I hope we get that apology between now and
:12:51. > :12:55.election. As someone who thinks integrity is important in politics,
:12:56. > :12:59.not ashamed of this kind of thing? It's important we scrutinise the
:13:00. > :13:05.policies of this government as well as adding a positive agenda for
:13:06. > :13:10.change. You want that you won't promise this is the last time we'll
:13:11. > :13:13.see such a negative press campaign? I don't think it is negative or
:13:14. > :13:18.personal to scrutinise the government. So we'll get more of
:13:19. > :13:24.this? I'm less interested in the background of the cabinet than their
:13:25. > :13:27.views. You call the upper-class twits. It's for the British public
:13:28. > :13:32.to make a judgement in terms of the British... That's how you depicted
:13:33. > :13:39.them. We are held in accountable for the bedroom tax, the NHS, taxation,
:13:40. > :13:42.and our record they have to defend. One reason are so fearful in this
:13:43. > :13:46.election is actually because they know they have a poor record. Let's
:13:47. > :13:54.look at other part of the election campaign. This poster. Particularly
:13:55. > :14:00.digitally doing the rounds. On that shopping basket, can you tell us
:14:01. > :14:03.which items take the full 20% VAT? It's representative of household
:14:04. > :14:08.shopping, which includes items like cleaning products, and we know that
:14:09. > :14:24.food is not that trouble. People don't go to the supermarket and say
:14:25. > :14:28.this is -- vatable. So you are denying that ?450 extra is being
:14:29. > :14:36.paid? Yes, where'd you get that figure? For an average family to pay
:14:37. > :14:43.?450 a year extra VAT, they would have to spend ?21,600 a year on
:14:44. > :14:48.vatable products at 20%. The average take-home pay is only 21,009. They
:14:49. > :14:52.have got to spend on all sorts of things which are zero VAT. So in
:14:53. > :14:59.addition to the items, has a range of products people face in terms of
:15:00. > :15:06.VAT. How could an average family of ?21,000 a year spent 21,006 and the
:15:07. > :15:14.pound a year on 20% vatable items? It's not an annual figure, is it? So
:15:15. > :15:20.what is it then? If it's an annual, what is it? The increased VAT in
:15:21. > :15:25.this parliament is calculated over the course of a Parliament. For the
:15:26. > :15:32.whole of the Parliament? And you're illustrated this with a shopping
:15:33. > :15:36.basket which almost has no VAT on it at all? People will be buying a
:15:37. > :15:42.weekly shop in the course of this Parliament every week. Did you sign
:15:43. > :15:46.off on this as well? Of course. It didn't dawn on you you're putting
:15:47. > :15:51.things on it which have no VAT? If you want to argue some people go to
:15:52. > :15:59.the shops and say these are vatable or not, I disagree. Even your rent
:16:00. > :16:02.cap announcement went wrong. You're working on the rent rises and it
:16:03. > :16:12.turns out it wasn't. It was a post your policy. It is the exception
:16:13. > :16:17.rather than the rule to have the position we have at the moment. In
:16:18. > :16:21.Northern Ireland we have seen the continued rise in terms of the
:16:22. > :16:27.rented sector but there is a widespread recognition that for
:16:28. > :16:33.those people in the rented sector, change is necessary. Are you
:16:34. > :16:43.coordinating this campaign? It seems accident prone. This is a party that
:16:44. > :16:47.has set the agenda more effectively than a Conservative party that said
:16:48. > :16:55.when David Cameron was elected he wasn't going to bang on about
:16:56. > :17:02.Europe. The day after the election we expect the Conservative party to
:17:03. > :17:06.be engulfed in crisis. I'm proud of what we talk about and I think there
:17:07. > :17:10.is a clear contrast about a party talking about issues people care
:17:11. > :17:15.about, and a Conservative party talking about exclusively a
:17:16. > :17:23.referendum. Are you in charge of the campaign? I am coordinating the
:17:24. > :17:29.campaign is, yes. The expensive election guru you have hired, has he
:17:30. > :17:33.been involved in any of this? We have started our discussions with
:17:34. > :17:38.him. You are going to have to brief him about British politics because
:17:39. > :17:45.he doesn't know anything about it. I make no apology for hiring him. He
:17:46. > :17:48.has a lot of experience in winning tight elections and that is what we
:17:49. > :17:54.are expecting. If tight elections and that is what we
:17:55. > :18:01.us to say, they have passed and we have to hold them accountable, then
:18:02. > :18:04.I am sorry but we have a campaign that holds the Government and the
:18:05. > :18:15.Conservatives to account for what I think is a very hopeless record in
:18:16. > :18:19.government. Thank you. He leads a party with zero MPs but
:18:20. > :18:22.his media presence is huge. He's had an expenses scandal, but the public
:18:23. > :18:24.didn't seem to mind. He's got a privileged background but he's seen
:18:25. > :18:28.as an anti-establishment champion. Nothing seems to stick to him, not
:18:29. > :18:31.even eggs. I speak of course of Nigel Farage. We'll talk to him in a
:18:32. > :18:34.moment, but first Giles has been out on the campaign trail ahead of
:18:35. > :18:37.elections that could make or break the UKIP leader.
:18:38. > :18:40.Nigel Farage likes a stage, and at this stage of the Euro and local
:18:41. > :18:45.election campaign he is, like his party, in buoyant mood. They feel
:18:46. > :18:50.they are on the verge of what they see as causing an earthquake in
:18:51. > :18:55.British politics. Today Nigel is filling thousands seat venues and
:18:56. > :19:03.bigger. Not that there's much sign of that at this press launch. But
:19:04. > :19:06.it's a threat with serious money behind it, that they believe the
:19:07. > :19:09.media and the political elite just haven't realised yet, much less
:19:10. > :19:11.learned how to counter it. Not that it's all been plain sailing.
:19:12. > :19:14.Offensive comments from some candidates has not only seen UKIP
:19:15. > :19:20.labelled as racist, but necessitated a rally by the party to visibly and
:19:21. > :19:24.verbally challenge that. The offensive idiotic statements made by
:19:25. > :19:27.this handful of people have been lifted up and presented to the great
:19:28. > :19:33.British public as if they represent the view of this party, which they
:19:34. > :19:44.do not. They never have and they never will. APPLAUSE
:19:45. > :19:53.I don't care what you call us, but from this moment on, please do not
:19:54. > :20:02.call must trust a racist party. We are not a racist party.
:20:03. > :20:05.The need to say that is not just about the European and local
:20:06. > :20:08.elections even at that campaign launch it's clear UKIP's leader has
:20:09. > :20:11.set his sights firmly on the ultimate prize. I come from the
:20:12. > :20:14.south of England and I would not want to be seen as an opportunist
:20:15. > :20:19.heading to the north, north Norfolk or whatever it will be. I will make
:20:20. > :20:25.my mind up and stand in the general election for somewhere in Kent, East
:20:26. > :20:29.Sussex, Hampshire, somewhere in my home patch. Back at UKIP HQ they are
:20:30. > :20:39.still drilling down how the last fortnight of campaigning should go.
:20:40. > :20:42.They aren't taking any chances, and one imagines having offices above
:20:43. > :20:45.those of Max Clifford is a reminder how fragile built reputations can be
:20:46. > :20:48.of the bubble bursting. They want their reputation to be built on
:20:49. > :20:51.votes and they know anything but significant success on May 22nd and
:20:52. > :20:58.some seats in Westminster in 2015 isn't going to be good enough. And
:20:59. > :21:01.after that, having sold yourselves as the honest outsiders, that stance
:21:02. > :21:05.is harder to maintain once your people are on the inside. And subtle
:21:06. > :21:11.changes from the past are already noticeable. The ordinary man of the
:21:12. > :21:14.people stance is still working. Characteristically outside a pub,
:21:15. > :21:20.Nigel Farage is glad handed by a customer. Two weeks to go, let's
:21:21. > :21:25.cause an upset. Wouldn't that be great? The only sign that such an
:21:26. > :21:37.interaction is different now is the ever presence of bodyguards who
:21:38. > :21:40.shadow his every move. Over lunch ahead of Question Time, a radio
:21:41. > :21:44.appearance, and then off to Scotland, I ask him if some of those
:21:45. > :21:47.minded to vote UKIP who see him as a man they'd be comfortable having a
:21:48. > :21:50.drink with are the sort of people he'd be entirely comfortable sitting
:21:51. > :21:52.down with. Every political party attracts support from across the
:21:53. > :22:01.spectrum and there will be some magnificent people who vote for us
:22:02. > :22:06.and some ne'er-do-wells. The one common thing about UKIP voters is
:22:07. > :22:10.that they are often not very political. And it's that people s
:22:11. > :22:12.army that if UKIP can get to a polling booth might just create that
:22:13. > :22:19.earthquake they want. Nigel Farage joins me now. When you
:22:20. > :22:23.decided not to stand at the new work by election coming said if you lost
:22:24. > :22:43.it that the bubble would have burst. What did you mean by that? I
:22:44. > :22:49.was asked at seven 20p -- at 7:21pm if I would stand, I have decided by
:22:50. > :22:56.the next morning that I would not. I didn't know he was going to resign.
:22:57. > :22:59.You claim only a handful of UKIP candidates have ever said things
:23:00. > :23:08.that are either stupid or offensive, I'm right on that, yes? 0.1%, I'd
:23:09. > :23:11.rather it was non-. But why have you chosen a candidate to fight this
:23:12. > :23:18.by-election that has said many things most people would regard as
:23:19. > :23:23.stupid or offensive? Roger is fighting this for us, someone of 70
:23:24. > :23:28.years of age who grew up with a strong Christian Bible background,
:23:29. > :23:32.in an age when homosexuality was imprisonable. He had a certain set
:23:33. > :23:36.of views which he maintained for many years which he now says he
:23:37. > :23:42.accepts the world has moved on and he is relaxed about it. The comments
:23:43. > :23:49.about homosexuality are not from the dark ages, they are from two or
:23:50. > :23:55.three years ago. From when he was a Conservative, yes, so will you be
:23:56. > :23:59.asking David Cameron that question? I have never seen a single comment
:24:00. > :24:04.from Roger that would be deemed to be offensive. Do you regard his
:24:05. > :24:09.comments on homosexuality as offensive? When he grew up,
:24:10. > :24:19.homosexuality was illegal in this country. But this was in 2012 but he
:24:20. > :24:29.said that. Most people have his age still feel uncomfortable about it --
:24:30. > :24:37.of his age. In 2012 he said, if two men can be married, why not three,
:24:38. > :24:41.why not a commune. Many people in this country are disconcerted by the
:24:42. > :24:44.change in the meaning of marriage and in a tolerant society we
:24:45. > :24:46.understand that some people have different views. But he has changed
:24:47. > :24:50.his views now in only two years? different views. But he has changed
:24:51. > :24:52.his views now in only two years He his views now in only two years? He
:24:53. > :25:02.says he is more relaxed about it. Was he your candidate? He is a
:25:03. > :25:07.first-class campaigner who has had 30 years in industry, he served in
:25:08. > :25:12.the European Parliament, he is a good candidate. This morning's
:25:13. > :25:16.papers suggest you are about to select Victoria Ayling for Grimsby,
:25:17. > :25:22.but she is on camera saying that, of immigrants, I just want to send a
:25:23. > :25:26.lot back. This is all very interesting, and we can talk about
:25:27. > :25:30.it, all we could talk about the fact that in 12 days we have a European
:25:31. > :25:37.election and every voter across the UK can vote on it and it is really
:25:38. > :25:45.interesting. Are you happy to pick a candidate that says of immigrants, I
:25:46. > :25:50.just want to send a lot back? I have seen the tape, it is a complete
:25:51. > :25:58.misquote and she says it in the context of illegal immigrants. I
:25:59. > :26:01.have seen the full quote and in the context it is not about illegal
:26:02. > :26:06.immigrants. Let's come onto the European campaign, you have used a
:26:07. > :26:11.company that employs Eastern European is to deliver leaflets in
:26:12. > :26:17.London and the Home Counties. Have we? I'm told that in Croydon one
:26:18. > :26:23.branch might have done that. Have you found some indigenous Brits to
:26:24. > :26:26.deliver leaflets in Europe? We have thousands joining the party every
:26:27. > :26:30.month and they are not all indigenous because what is
:26:31. > :26:45.interesting is that in today's opinion polls, UKIP is above the Lib
:26:46. > :26:56.Dems and the Conservatives amongst the indigenous voting.
:26:57. > :27:03.We have not agreed a manifesto for the general election, we will do
:27:04. > :27:09.over the course of the summer. This is in your local election. We are
:27:10. > :27:13.having local elections in some part of the country but we are fighting a
:27:14. > :27:17.European election. It is impossible with the British media to have an
:27:18. > :27:24.intelligent debate on the European question. But as I say, we are also
:27:25. > :27:31.fighting the local elections too. You have promised these tax cuts,
:27:32. > :27:35.how much will they cost? I have met -- read the local election manifesto
:27:36. > :27:37.and it doesn't make those promises. We do talk about local services, we
:27:38. > :27:42.We do talk about local services we do talk about the need to keep
:27:43. > :27:49.council tax down but we don't talk about income tax. Absolutely not. In
:27:50. > :27:56.local election campaigning you say you would restore cuts to policing,
:27:57. > :27:58.double prison places, restore cuts to front line NHS, spend more on
:27:59. > :28:05.roads, how much would that cost You roads, how much would that cost? You
:28:06. > :28:10.are obviously reading different documents to me. We are voting for
:28:11. > :28:17.local councillors in district councils who have got little local
:28:18. > :28:23.budgets. Every party in a manifesto puts his aspirations in it. Have you
:28:24. > :28:29.read it? Of course I have, cover to cover, which is why I'm saying you
:28:30. > :28:35.are misquoting it. By the way, on the bubble bursting, you told that
:28:36. > :28:40.to Norman Smith of the BBC. 75% of British laws are now made in the
:28:41. > :28:46.European Union. Now AstraZeneca is potentially going to be taken over
:28:47. > :28:51.by Pfizer. The BBC is refusing to show the public that that decision
:28:52. > :28:55.cannot be taken here but by an elected European commissioner, and
:28:56. > :29:09.we sit and argue about what is in or not in the local election manifesto.
:29:10. > :29:12.It is my job, but let me come on to AstraZeneca. Is it your view that a
:29:13. > :29:24.British government should stop the takeover of AstraZeneca? It cannot.
:29:25. > :29:28.Can we please get this clear. I sat next to Chuka Umunna the other day
:29:29. > :29:33.at question time and he said what could and couldn't be done. He said
:29:34. > :29:38.I am being studiously neutral, and the reason is we don't have this
:29:39. > :29:44.power. That is what the European elections is about. Should France
:29:45. > :30:02.have the takeover of the food company Danan? We seem to do things
:30:03. > :30:06.to the Nth degree and nobody else does, perhaps because we have this
:30:07. > :30:14.culture and we obey it. In your view, you don't think Pfizer should
:30:15. > :30:18.be able to take over AstraZeneca? There is some good science within
:30:19. > :30:26.AstraZeneca which is in danger of being asset stripped and lost.
:30:27. > :30:31.Because it is run by a Swede and a Frenchman and most of its employees
:30:32. > :30:36.are overseas. I understand that but there are still some good science
:30:37. > :30:39.being produced here. What did you think of the Prime Minister saying
:30:40. > :30:45.he would not form a government after the election unless he was able to
:30:46. > :30:52.have a referendum in 2017? I sat here talking to you and you said to
:30:53. > :30:56.me that David Cameron had given a cast-iron guarantee that if David
:30:57. > :30:59.Cameron becomes Prime Minister he will have a referendum on the Lisbon
:31:00. > :31:04.Treaty, but he didn't deliver on that. He knows that people struggle
:31:05. > :31:11.to believe the renegotiation is worth a row of beans. He is saying
:31:12. > :31:14.he will not form a government unless he can go forward with the
:31:15. > :31:18.referendum. I know he is desperately trying to pretend to be Eurosceptic
:31:19. > :31:22.whilst at the same time saying he will campaign for Britain to remain
:31:23. > :31:27.in. In a sense, that is what this election is about. We have three
:31:28. > :31:30.traditional parties, all of whom passionately believe in the
:31:31. > :31:34.continued membership of the European Union and we have UKIP saying we
:31:35. > :31:40.want trade and cooperation but there is a bigger and better world out
:31:41. > :31:50.there. You are now travelling with I think four bodyguards, has this
:31:51. > :31:54.affected you and your family life? I can't stand it. I've always wondered
:31:55. > :31:59.about the place and on my own thing. Sadly we have a couple of
:32:00. > :32:01.organisations out there headed up by senior Labour Party figures who
:32:02. > :32:07.purport to be against fascism and extremism, who received funding from
:32:08. > :32:11.the Department of communities, from the trade unions, who have acted in
:32:12. > :32:16.a violent wait more than once. You are saying the Labour Party is
:32:17. > :32:20.behind the threats? No, I said a taxpayer funded, trade union funded
:32:21. > :32:23.and headed by senior Labour Party figures, and I'm happy for them to
:32:24. > :32:26.come to my meetings and have an itinerant with me, but it's not so
:32:27. > :32:32.much fun when there are banging you over the head. I is still keen to be
:32:33. > :32:38.an MP? Yes, what UKIP will then do is target before the general
:32:39. > :32:42.election next year for the one life be easier if you just went to the
:32:43. > :32:47.Lords? That's the last thing I want to do. There's an awful lot to do.
:32:48. > :32:51.Most of all, I will not rest until we are free from political union and
:32:52. > :32:54.government from Brussels. Nigel Farage, thank you for being with us.
:32:55. > :32:57.It's just gone 11.30am. You're watching the Sunday Politics. We say
:32:58. > :33:00.goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now for Sunday Politics
:33:01. > :33:01.Scotland. Coming up here in 20 minutes, our panel talks about the
:33:02. > :33:17.Hello, I'm Lucy Fisher. Coming up in big stories of the week. First
:33:18. > :33:18.Hello, I'm Lucy Fisher. Coming up in the Sunday politics in the South
:33:19. > :33:22.West: the UKIP MEP facing questions West: the UKIP MEP facing questions
:33:23. > :33:28.about why he gave land to a family company shortly before it was
:33:29. > :33:31.procured by a wind farm developer. And for the next 20 minutes I'm
:33:32. > :33:34.joined by the Conservative MP for Tiverton and Honiton, Neil Parish,
:33:35. > :33:35.and the Labour MP for Plymotth Moor View, Alison Seabech. Welcome
:33:36. > :33:37.and the Labour MP for Plymouth Moor View, Alison Seabech. Welcole both
:33:38. > :33:39.of you to the programme. Let's start with house pricds. Their
:33:40. > :33:41.Let's start with house prices. Their back on the rise in the reghon and
:33:42. > :33:43.there are growing concerns among there are growing concerns among
:33:44. > :33:52.economists that they are dangerously out of kilter with earnings. This
:33:53. > :33:55.week the International Economic Forum, the OECD, said that Britain's
:33:56. > :33:57.housing market was in danger of overheating. Neil, why is the
:33:58. > :34:01.government not doing more to stop this potential bubble developing? I
:34:02. > :34:10.think what we were keen to do was actually to get the housing market
:34:11. > :34:12.going. Don't forget it wasn't very long ago that we were being
:34:13. > :34:21.criticised for the housing market stagnating. That is why the Help to
:34:22. > :34:29.Buy scheme was put there, to give people a chance to have a deposit
:34:30. > :34:32.who couldn't raise that themselves. So we put position for the Bank of
:34:33. > :34:35.England so that they can actually take action the moment they think
:34:36. > :34:37.that there is anything that government money putting in is
:34:38. > :34:40.stimulating too much the housing market. But at the moment in many
:34:41. > :34:44.respects getting the housing market going is the important thing. So I
:34:45. > :34:45.do not think it has overheated yet. And you wouldn't recommend stopping
:34:46. > :34:47.perhaps the Help to Buy scheme? And you wouldn't recommend stopping
:34:48. > :34:48.perhaps the Help to Buy scheme? No, you're helping people who c`nnot get
:34:49. > :34:50.the deposit together. If you you're helping people who cannot get
:34:51. > :34:53.the deposit together. If yot take that away you don't necessarily stop
:34:54. > :34:55.prices rising, you just stop those people being able to get their help.
:34:56. > :34:58.people being able to get thdir help. Alison, is Neil right? You need to
:34:59. > :35:00.start the ladder, you need to start things moving?
:35:01. > :35:04.Alison, is Neil right? You need to start The issue here is the supply
:35:05. > :35:16.of housing available. If you start The issue here is the supply
:35:17. > :35:16.of housing available. If yot look start The issue here is the supply
:35:17. > :35:17.of housing available. If you look at of housing available. If yot look at
:35:18. > :35:18.the comments from former chancellors, three Conservative,
:35:19. > :35:18.the comments from former chancellors, three Conservative one
:35:19. > :35:20.chancellors, three Conservative, one Labour, all seeing that we've had
:35:21. > :35:21.bubble after bubble and thex've Labour, all seeing that we've had
:35:22. > :35:25.bubble after bubble and they've all burst. The problem is one of supply.
:35:26. > :35:28.To be fair, Alistair Darling has put his hands up on that one and said we
:35:29. > :35:32.should have focused more on getting more homes built and that is what
:35:33. > :35:34.has to happen. We've got the lowest house`building level since the
:35:35. > :35:36.1920s, and that is fuelling this constant upward movement in prices.
:35:37. > :35:39.OK, that's that for the mintte. We OK, that's that for the mintte. We
:35:40. > :35:40.have to move on. But plenty more to discuss.
:35:41. > :35:41.It's no surprise to find a UKIP discuss.
:35:42. > :35:43.It's no surprise to find a TKIP MEP It's no surprise to find a TKIP MEP
:35:44. > :35:44.that against wind farms. Indeed the party says its strong opposition
:35:45. > :35:46.that against wind farms. Indeed the party says its strong opposhtion to
:35:47. > :36:01.them has been a big vote`winner in the region. But some have bden
:36:02. > :36:04.shocked to learn that UKIP's William Dartmouth, who's standing for
:36:05. > :36:12.re`election as a South West MEP used to own a piece of land where
:36:13. > :36:15.three turbines are now proposed. Slaithwaite Moor lies about six
:36:16. > :36:19.miles to the west of Huddersfield and Yorkshire. The plan for 399
:36:20. > :36:21.metre tall wind turbines here has attracted vocal opposition, but it
:36:22. > :36:23.is also causing concern in the south`west. Lord Dartmouth has
:36:24. > :36:25.publicly always opposed the development of wind power. Hf
:36:26. > :36:26.publicly always opposed the development of wind power. If he is
:36:27. > :36:29.development of wind power. Hf he is involved in putting up wind turbines
:36:30. > :36:32.than I think his constituents should know about it. William Dartlouth is
:36:33. > :36:35.one of the region's two existing UKIP MEPs. In February 2011 he gave
:36:36. > :36:39.Yorkshire to a family company. 1 Yorkshire to a family company. 1
:36:40. > :36:40.weeks later the wind farm developer Valley Wind secured an agredment
:36:41. > :36:43.weeks later the wind farm ddveloper Valley Wind secured an agreement to
:36:44. > :36:46.lease the land. This title plan from the Land Registry shows the land
:36:47. > :36:49.which William Dartmouth transferred. This is the boundary to the area of
:36:50. > :36:52.land. This planning application document shows the area now under
:36:53. > :36:54.control of the wind farm developers. These points marking out the
:36:55. > :36:55.These points marking out thd proposed wind turbine locations.
:36:56. > :36:55.These points marking out the proposed wind turbine locathons As
:36:56. > :36:57.you can see, the two areas appear proposed wind turbine locations. As
:36:58. > :37:00.you can see, the two areas `ppear to match exactly. I do not move in
:37:01. > :37:04.match exactly. I do not movd in circles where people give away large
:37:05. > :37:07.parcels of land, so perhaps I do not understand how these things work,
:37:08. > :37:10.but to me it seems rather strange and I think he could give us a
:37:11. > :37:11.little bit more of a detaildd explanation on that. The question
:37:12. > :37:12.little bit more of a detailed explanation on that. The qudstion as
:37:13. > :37:23.explanation on that. The question as to why William Dartmouth tr`nsferred
:37:24. > :37:25.this land remains unanswered. The developer's website reveals that
:37:26. > :37:28.after years of searching for the best site for the wind farm we found
:37:29. > :37:32.a suitable location on Slaithwaite Moor. Valley Wind Co`operathve
:37:33. > :37:34.a suitable location on Slaithwaite Moor. Valley Wind Co`operative was
:37:35. > :37:39.created in 2009 to take the idea forward. We asked Valley Wind when
:37:40. > :37:42.they first approached the l`ndowner they first approached the l`ndowner
:37:43. > :37:45.about the project and who that landowner was, but our questions
:37:46. > :37:49.were met with this brief statement...
:37:50. > :37:56.William Dartmouth declined our request for an interview. In a
:37:57. > :37:59.statement he said he derives no benefit, financial or otherwise
:38:00. > :38:02.from the land as it stands, and nor would he if the planning application
:38:03. > :38:07.were successful. He goes on to say he fully endorses the party policy
:38:08. > :38:08.to oppose onshore wind development. Many of our leading politichans
:38:09. > :38:10.to oppose onshore wind development. Many of our leading politicians have
:38:11. > :38:11.family members who are, or who have been associated with, the whnd
:38:12. > :38:16.been associated with, the wind energy industry. It's very good for
:38:17. > :38:19.rich people very, very good indeed. If you're a landowner and you get
:38:20. > :38:25.?1000 a day for just putting wind turbines on your land, isn't that
:38:26. > :38:27.great? The difference between what UKIP are
:38:28. > :38:29.saying and what apparently hs happening with this land, yes,
:38:30. > :38:30.saying and what apparently is happening with this land, yds, I
:38:31. > :38:33.think there are questions still outstanding. Obviously UKIP are
:38:34. > :38:34.trading on the fact that people are disillusioned with the three
:38:35. > :38:37.disillusioned with the thred Westminster parties, but I think
:38:38. > :38:40.this shows that actually, as some of us suspected, they don't re`lly have
:38:41. > :38:41.higher standards themselves, and it really does look a little bht
:38:42. > :38:41.higher standards themselves, and it really does look a little bit dodgy
:38:42. > :38:44.in terms of, just double st`ndards in terms of, just double standards
:38:45. > :38:45.really. William Dartmouth owns land adjacent to this proposed whnd
:38:46. > :38:51.really. William Dartmouth owns land adjacent to this proposed wind farm
:38:52. > :38:53.site. Some will be expecting him to lodge an objection.
:38:54. > :38:58.We asked William Dartmouth to join us to discuss this. Both he and the
:38:59. > :39:02.UKIP party chairman declined our request for an interview. And we
:39:03. > :39:07.were told by a party press officer that no one from UKIP would be
:39:08. > :39:09.available to talk about this. We should also say that a full list of
:39:10. > :39:11.candidates standing in the European candidates standing in the European
:39:12. > :39:14.elections in the south`west is available on the BBC websitd.
:39:15. > :39:14.elections in the south`west is available on the BBC website. Neil,
:39:15. > :39:18.available on the BBC websitd. Neil, what do you make of this story? I
:39:19. > :39:30.think it is something that the UKIP party must answer, because there is
:39:31. > :39:34.obviously confusion here. Who did own the land and at what tile was
:39:35. > :39:37.Lord Dartmouth tenant of th`t land? But that is very much for the party
:39:38. > :39:40.to identify and answer, bec`use they're the ones that are opposing
:39:41. > :39:41.wind farms. They have to be absolutely sure that their lembers
:39:42. > :39:43.absolutely sure that their members are not actually building whnd
:39:44. > :39:46.are not actually building wind farms. But it is not for me as
:39:47. > :39:50.another party to actually throw too many bricks at them, but I think the
:39:51. > :39:53.public out there will want to know, if UKIP are against wind farms, are
:39:54. > :39:55.they absolutely certain that none of their members have actually
:39:56. > :39:57.benefited from having wind farms. That's the question that thdy have
:39:58. > :40:00.to answer. benefited from having wind farms.
:40:01. > :40:03.That's the What would the Conservatives do if one of their
:40:04. > :40:05.party members were in this situation, do you think Western
:40:06. > :40:08.marketing they would take qtite strong action and Ailsa think that
:40:09. > :40:13.probably they would actually put somebody up to answer it, whether we
:40:14. > :40:15.like it or not. The final point I will make, it is no good UKHP
:40:16. > :40:17.like it or not. The final point I will make, it is no good UKIP saying
:40:18. > :40:20.they are not a political party, they are both politics, when the
:40:21. > :40:21.obviously have managed this story in a way in which nobody has been
:40:22. > :40:26.obviously have managed this story in a way in which nobody has bden put
:40:27. > :40:29.up able to speak on behalf of UKIP. If anything is being managed, media
:40:30. > :40:33.managed, I suggest that that is Would you agree with Neil on this? I
:40:34. > :40:34.think Neil's comments about media management on this are absolutely
:40:35. > :40:35.right. This is something which management on this are absolutely
:40:36. > :40:36.right. This is something whhch does right. This is something which does
:40:37. > :40:38.need to be properly scrutinhsed right. This is something whhch does
:40:39. > :40:40.need to be properly scrutinised. The need to be properly scrutinised. The
:40:41. > :40:46.public really do deserve to know a little bit about the people who are
:40:47. > :40:47.seeking their votes. The media are certainly looking at this, I'd
:40:48. > :40:49.seeking their votes. The media are certainly looking at this, H'd be
:40:50. > :40:55.very surprised if, in the coming week, we don't see a little bit more
:40:56. > :40:58.about the background to this story. Alison, we are in an election
:40:59. > :41:01.period, there is an element that this could just be dirty campaigning
:41:02. > :41:16.by the opponents and a bit of opportunism. No, no. I think this
:41:17. > :41:26.has all come out and it is clearly something which the UKIP candidate
:41:27. > :41:29.himself needs to speak on. Ht's disappointing that he is not here
:41:30. > :41:30.today to explain precisely what happened and that way of course
:41:31. > :41:31.today to explain precisely what happened and that way of cotrse we
:41:32. > :41:34.happened and that way of course we would know, wouldn't we? It would
:41:35. > :41:37.have been best for him to come on and answer it, then we would know.
:41:38. > :41:39.Moving on, alongside the Euro elections in just over a week's
:41:40. > :41:40.elections in just over a wedk's time, there will be local elections
:41:41. > :41:41.in Plymouth, Exeter and Weylouth time, there will be local elections
:41:42. > :41:46.in Plymouth, Exeter and Weymouth And in Plymouth, Exeter and Weylouth And
:41:47. > :41:47.Portland. We have been to one ward in Plymouth where the battle
:41:48. > :41:48.Portland. We have been to one ward in Plymouth where the battld for
:41:49. > :41:49.in Plymouth where the battle for votes is being fought alongside
:41:50. > :41:50.major plans to redevelop one of votes is being fought alongside
:41:51. > :41:54.major plans to redevelop ond of the major plans to redevelop one of the
:41:55. > :41:57.city's key landmarks. With the opening of John Lewis, and
:41:58. > :41:59.imminent arrival of IKEA, Exeter appears to be on the up. Plxmouth,
:42:00. > :42:01.appears to be on the up. Plymouth, too, is aiming to up its gale,
:42:02. > :42:01.appears to be on the up. Plxmouth, too, is aiming to up its game, but
:42:02. > :42:06.too, is aiming to up its gale, but not quickly enough for some. The
:42:07. > :42:08.council needs to be more ambitious, and that is why we need a
:42:09. > :42:10.Conservative`led council in Plymouth. It will mean we c`n
:42:11. > :42:12.Conservative`led council in Plymouth. It will mean we can bring
:42:13. > :42:14.in IKEA, John Lewis, and evdry other bid that we want to. I think that
:42:15. > :42:16.the bidding system in Plymotth bid that we want to. I think that
:42:17. > :42:17.the bidding system in Plymouth City the bidding system in Plymouth City
:42:18. > :42:20.Council has been poor recently, as we look at last year's City of
:42:21. > :42:22.Culture bid that failed. The Labour`led administration h`s
:42:23. > :42:39.rebranded Plymouth as Britahn's Ocean City. And it has ambitious
:42:40. > :42:41.plans for the city centre. We're providing more than shopping, we're
:42:42. > :42:44.providing experiences, we'rd providing a range of restaurants,
:42:45. > :42:47.we're providing a cultural offer, a history centre. We're revamping our
:42:48. > :42:48.libraries, we're doing a range of different things, not just going to
:42:49. > :42:54.a mall. Exeter is right to up its a mall. Exeter is right to tp its
:42:55. > :42:59.game, and so too are we. And I don't think we're doing anything less than
:43:00. > :43:02.Exeter City Council is doing. I think we're probably doing lore
:43:03. > :43:04.Exeter City Council is doing. I think we're probably doing more. For
:43:05. > :43:07.many people arriving in Plymouth the first welcome they get is from this
:43:08. > :43:10.somewhat tired`looking coach station here at Bretonside. The Labour`led
:43:11. > :43:14.City Council has announced plans to sell the site for redeveloplent The
:43:15. > :43:15.?50 million plans will mean a 12`screen cinema complex, 13
:43:16. > :43:16.restaurants, and parking spaces 12`screen cinema complex, 13
:43:17. > :43:20.restaurants, and parking sp`ces for restaurants, and parking sp`ces for
:43:21. > :43:23.around 400 cars. The coach station would move from here, to here, on
:43:24. > :43:31.the site of this disused car park, which is much nearer to the mainline
:43:32. > :43:32.train station. The Conservative candidate for this area is in
:43:33. > :43:33.train station. The Conservative candidate for this area is hn favour
:43:34. > :43:36.candidate for this area is in favour of the plans. But some in hhs party
:43:37. > :43:42.of the plans. But some in his party question the need for anothdr cinema
:43:43. > :43:43.and more restaurants. The ruling Labour group on the City Cotncil
:43:44. > :43:45.and more restaurants. The rtling Labour group on the City Council say
:43:46. > :43:46.the relocation of the bus station could bring much`needed invdstment
:43:47. > :43:51.could bring much`needed investment into the west end of the city. This
:43:52. > :43:57.part of the town has been struggling in recent times. They estimate the
:43:58. > :44:01.in recent times. They estim`te the relocation will bring around 200,000
:44:02. > :44:02.visitors to this area. The Liberal Democrats don't have any councillors
:44:03. > :44:03.in Plymouth at the moment btt Democrats don't have any cotncillors
:44:04. > :44:05.in Plymouth at the moment but they in Plymouth at the moment btt they
:44:06. > :44:13.still have ideas about what needs to happen. Pulling all that down,
:44:14. > :44:15.completely redeveloping the whole of the western approach so that you
:44:16. > :44:21.have a broad highway that nded have a broad highway that need
:44:22. > :44:24.something special for it. So that this part of the city is as
:44:25. > :44:27.attractive to everybody as the East End of the city. The elections are
:44:28. > :44:29.unlikely to affect the redevelopment proposals, although the
:44:30. > :44:38.Conservatives have some criticisms they are properly supported.
:44:39. > :44:42.``broadly supportive. And even if they did oppose them they would need
:44:43. > :44:44.to make huge gains to overcome Labour's majority of eight
:44:45. > :44:46.councillors and wind control of the city council.
:44:47. > :44:49.There are three other candidates standing in that ward. Andy Dale
:44:50. > :44:50.represents the Green Part, Roy Kettle is the candidate for UKIP,
:44:51. > :44:53.and Paddy Ryan for the Tradd and Paddy Ryan for the Trade
:44:54. > :44:59.Unionists and Socialists Ag`inst Cuts.
:45:00. > :45:02.And to discuss this we're joined by Lib Dem councillor Keith Baldry
:45:03. > :45:08.Welcome to the programme. Thank you. Before we come to you, I am going to
:45:09. > :45:11.start this discussion with @lison. We had a Conservative candidate in
:45:12. > :45:15.the film there who said that if the Tories were in charge in Plymouth he
:45:16. > :45:16.would have a John Lewis and an IKEA now in Plymouth. What do yot
:45:17. > :45:17.would have a John Lewis and an IKEA now in Plymouth. What do you think
:45:18. > :45:19.now in Plymouth. What do yot think of that? The Labour council have
:45:20. > :45:21.done brilliantly well. The Bretonside development as proposed
:45:22. > :45:22.brings multi`million pound development into the city, `n IMAX
:45:23. > :45:31.development into the city, an IMAX cinema, one of only eight in the
:45:32. > :45:32.country. The nearest is in Cardiff. You're bringing 200,000 people and
:45:33. > :45:35.passengers in on the new coaches passengers in on the new coaches
:45:36. > :45:38.directly into the heart of the retail and that is hugely important
:45:39. > :45:41.in terms of improving retail sales, but more importantly we are moving
:45:42. > :45:43.towards looking more like M`nchester are Liverpool, for you have the old
:45:44. > :45:44.city centre models gone, you are Liverpool, for you have the old
:45:45. > :45:47.city centre models gone, you have leisure, commerce, housing `s well
:45:48. > :45:53.as retail. You've never been tempted to shop in Exeter? No, I haven't,
:45:54. > :45:59.actually. I genuinely haven't shopped in Exeter. Plymouth has ..
:46:00. > :46:01.Exeter is doing well, that's great for Exeter, it's half the size
:46:02. > :46:01.Exeter is doing well, that's great for Exeter, it's half the shze of
:46:02. > :46:03.for Exeter, it's half the size of Plymouth. We are the economhc driver
:46:04. > :46:06.Plymouth. We are the economic driver in the region and I believe that
:46:07. > :46:09.John Lewis, who are slowly loving their interests down the peninsula,
:46:10. > :46:14.I'm sure there are already looking at Plymouth. Next hotspot. Indeed.
:46:15. > :46:17.at Plymouth. Next hotspot. Hndeed. Is Alison right here, Labour are
:46:18. > :46:26.doing well, they're rejuven`ting Plymouth, we don't need the Tories
:46:27. > :46:29.to take control? I think it's a case of who is running the country and
:46:30. > :46:32.the overall economics and it's great to see the economy picking tp,
:46:33. > :46:35.especially here in the West Country, and I'm especially keen to see
:46:36. > :46:40.Plymouth grow and Exeter grow. It's not a case of one or the other and I
:46:41. > :46:42.think they have to be combined and I think that if we can bring a
:46:43. > :46:44.think they have to be combined and I think that if we can bring ` John
:46:45. > :46:50.Lewis, an IKEA in here, it would be great. I think they will come here.
:46:51. > :46:54.great. I think they will cole here. It is a combination of not only how
:46:55. > :46:57.city councils are run but how the County of Devon is run. Your
:46:58. > :46:59.colleague has not been making grand claims? Hopefully he can
:47:00. > :47:02.substantiate those claims. Without him here I cannot comment. Obviously
:47:03. > :47:06.he thinks he can. Keith, have the Lib Dems given up on Plymouth? You
:47:07. > :47:07.are fielding for candidates only in this election, aren't you? Xes,
:47:08. > :47:07.are fielding for candidates only in this election, aren't you? Yes, but
:47:08. > :47:10.this election, aren't you? Xes, but we're fielding for high`quality
:47:11. > :47:16.candidates. All parties find it difficult to find candidates. We've
:47:17. > :47:19.seen with some parties what happens when you select some, shall we say,
:47:20. > :47:24.less able candidates and we had gaffes from some parties, all
:47:25. > :47:27.parties. We took a decision in Plymouth that we would get far
:47:28. > :47:37.higher quality people who could slot straighteners high`quality
:47:38. > :47:41.councillors. We have just hdard .. You've not had a presence on the
:47:42. > :47:44.council for nearly a decade. This is your new strategy? Slim down the
:47:45. > :47:45.number of candidates and make sure they are more electable? We don t
:47:46. > :47:48.they are more electable? We don't kid ourselves were going to take
:47:49. > :47:50.control, but to have for high`quality candidates that could
:47:51. > :47:52.become councillors would be a great stepping stone. We've just seen an
:47:53. > :47:55.example of the candidate th`t has example of the candidate th`t has
:47:56. > :47:57.got enormously exulted views of what backbench Conservative councillor
:47:58. > :47:59.can do. Let's be realistic. We want councillors that are on there that
:48:00. > :48:00.will fight for Plymouth in a will fight for Plymouth in `
:48:01. > :48:02.realistic way. Are you worried will fight for Plymouth in a
:48:03. > :48:02.realistic way. Are you worrhed you realistic way. Are you worried you
:48:03. > :48:04.will lose votes to Labour? H'm realistic way. Are you worrhed you
:48:05. > :48:05.will lose votes to Labour? I'm not will lose votes to Labour? H'm not
:48:06. > :48:09.worried about losing votes hn any direction. We're probably just
:48:10. > :48:09.worried about losing votes in any direction. We're probably jtst as
:48:10. > :48:11.direction. We're probably just as likely to lose votes to UKIP as we
:48:12. > :48:12.are to the Conservatives. T`lking likely to lose votes to UKIP as we
:48:13. > :48:14.are to the Conservatives. Talking of are to the Conservatives. Talking of
:48:15. > :48:17.losing votes to UKIP, Neil, how worried are you? Hugo Swire has
:48:18. > :48:25.already said that he is very concerned down in south`west. Bound
:48:26. > :48:26.to be concerned, but UKIP is picking up votes from all parties because
:48:27. > :48:26.to be concerned, but UKIP is picking up votes from all parties bdcause it
:48:27. > :48:30.is protest votes they are picking up is protest votes they are picking up
:48:31. > :48:31.and it clearly comes to these elections, who is actually going to
:48:32. > :48:39.deliver referendum on Europd, that deliver referendum on Europe, that
:48:40. > :48:42.is the Conservative Party. We are naturally concerned, concerned
:48:43. > :48:49.whenever we lose votes, but from then Liberal Democrats point of view
:48:50. > :48:52.in Plymouth, when it comes to the percentage of vote that you then
:48:53. > :48:58.actually achieve in Plymouth, it will be much lower. It is a good
:48:59. > :49:12.idea to field as many candidates as possible. Parties do generally known
:49:13. > :49:14.I that the local elections will be a better guide than European dlections
:49:15. > :49:20.better guide than European elections in terms of how general elections
:49:21. > :49:23.will pan out. Labour has to do well. We would hope to pick up se`ts in
:49:24. > :49:28.We would hope to pick up seats in elections across the south`west
:49:29. > :49:32.but, to come back to your point about UKIP, and where voter coming
:49:33. > :49:39.from for them, what we're phcking up from for them, what we're picking up
:49:40. > :49:40.now is that people who were previously saying they were going to
:49:41. > :49:45.vote UKIP, now they are acttally vote UKIP, now they are actually
:49:46. > :49:51.saying that we were thinking about 14 UKIP, as more of their policies
:49:52. > :49:53.are coming out, people are beginning to ask questions. It is time
:49:54. > :49:53.are coming out, people are beginning to ask questions. It is timd to
:49:54. > :49:57.are coming out, people are beginning to ask questions. It is time to move
:49:58. > :50:01.on. Thank you very much for joining us. It is time for our regular
:50:02. > :50:07.round`up of the political week in 60 round`up of the political wdek in 60
:50:08. > :50:09.seconds. There were claims a hospital in
:50:10. > :50:11.Cornwall might have to closd There were claims a hospital in
:50:12. > :50:16.Cornwall might have to closd because of a long`term health funding
:50:17. > :50:20.shortfall in the county. As a result of underfunding it has left a legacy
:50:21. > :50:23.of ?220 million which the government has not given us which we deserve.
:50:24. > :50:28.has not given us which we ddserve. Concern about the security of the
:50:29. > :50:31.deal to build a new nuclear reactor at Hinkley Point after warnhngs that
:50:32. > :50:40.the contract could violate European the contract could violate European
:50:41. > :50:48.rules on state subsidies. It has to be put forward with fracking relates
:50:49. > :50:54.will go out in the near future. I have about ?50 million worth of
:50:55. > :50:59.maintenance backlog, I am ndver going to achieve it. A woman refuses
:51:00. > :51:14.to pay her council fine and feeding seagulls. `` fine after feeding
:51:15. > :51:18.seagulls. Alison, let us look at this issue of
:51:19. > :51:23.feeding seagulls. It is interesting. The only way that the counchl could
:51:24. > :51:27.find this woman was for littering when she was feeding these seagulls.
:51:28. > :51:30.What do you think about it? Should it be allowed? Councils need to make
:51:31. > :51:35.sure they have the appropriate sure they have the appropri`te
:51:36. > :51:37.bylaws in place. Seagulls have bylaws in place. Seagulls have
:51:38. > :51:41.voracious appetites and thex will voracious appetites and they will
:51:42. > :51:42.eat almost anything. They frighten off other smaller birds that we want
:51:43. > :51:44.to see in our towns and cities. off other smaller birds that we want
:51:45. > :51:44.to see in our towns and cithes. I to see in our towns and cithes. I
:51:45. > :51:49.have evidence of people here have have evidence of people here have
:51:50. > :51:50.regularly fed smaller birds through winter but the seagulls come along
:51:51. > :52:00.winter but the seagulls comd along and those smaller birds are no
:52:01. > :52:02.longer present. Is she right? I think so. We have to be careful we
:52:03. > :52:04.think so. We have to be cardful we do not become Big Brother, I accept
:52:05. > :52:10.do not become Big Brother, H accept that. But if you feed seagulls,
:52:11. > :52:12.especially in the city, then they will come. We had a photograph
:52:13. > :52:14.especially in the city, then they will come. We had a photogr`ph taken
:52:15. > :52:16.one day and we put some fish and chips on top of all waste bhn and
:52:17. > :52:23.chips on top of all waste bin and down came the seagulls, thex
:52:24. > :52:24.immediately had the fish and off it went. If you feed them more then
:52:25. > :52:26.they will come back for mord. We they will come back for mord. We
:52:27. > :52:31.have to be careful. I was have to be have to be careful. I was have to be
:52:32. > :52:33.got right and I think that the small birds are the ones that we should
:52:34. > :52:35.concentrate on. Seagulls are birds are the ones that we should
:52:36. > :52:35.concentrate on. Seagulls ard not birds are the ones that we should
:52:36. > :52:37.concentrate on. Seagulls are not in concentrate on. Seagulls are not in
:52:38. > :52:48.Endangered Species Act. Maybe we should organise a call? `` seagulls
:52:49. > :52:49.are not an endangered species. Sometimes there are too manx
:52:50. > :52:49.are not an endangered specids. Sometimes there are too many of
:52:50. > :52:55.Sometimes there are too manx of them. We have to be careful about
:52:56. > :53:00.feeding them, we really do. I am going to stop you there, that
:53:01. > :53:00.feeding them, we really do. I am going to stop you there, th`t is the
:53:01. > :53:02.going to stop you there, that is the Sunday Politics in the north`west. I
:53:03. > :53:04.will hand the website now. Now it is back to
:53:05. > :53:23.you, Andrew. Welcome back, let's go straight to
:53:24. > :53:27.our panel. What did you make of Mr Alexander's defence of the Labour
:53:28. > :53:30.party election broadcast? It is difficult for them because they
:53:31. > :53:34.started by saying they were not going to do negative campaigning and
:53:35. > :53:42.they have thrown that away for an advert which is funny but crude in
:53:43. > :53:49.the class war sense. He didn't look thrilled to be defending it. There
:53:50. > :53:53.is a page in Tony Blair's memoirs talking about negative campaigning,
:53:54. > :53:58.and he says that anything too extreme turns off the average voter
:53:59. > :54:10.so his line of attack on Hague was funny jokes but... I think this
:54:11. > :54:17.failed the Blair test, it was too vicious. If your strategy is to
:54:18. > :54:21.shore up your car vote, that advert was genius. If your strategy is to
:54:22. > :54:26.reach out to a broader number of voters, Middle Britain, then that
:54:27. > :54:30.advert was a complete disaster. It looks like there is a lot of
:54:31. > :54:42.negativity and smears all round in the next year. That definitely looks
:54:43. > :55:01.the way we are going. They will be essentially trying to re-run by --
:55:02. > :55:06.the American election. I am slightly puzzled why we cannot have our own
:55:07. > :55:11.election gurus who live here and understand the country. I should
:55:12. > :55:16.point out that the ?450 extra VAT that was claimed in that Labour
:55:17. > :55:23.poster, both Ed Balls and the Labour Treasury team have said that is ?450
:55:24. > :55:29.per year. Nonsense the VAT rise, one year. I should also point out that
:55:30. > :55:36.Nigel Farage said to Norman Smith, the BBC is always reliable Norman
:55:37. > :55:40.Smith that if you run in Newark and lost the bubble would burst. I
:55:41. > :55:45.should also point out that although a number of the tax rises I
:55:46. > :55:50.mentioned on council tax, minimum wage tax and some other things that
:55:51. > :55:56.UKIP wants to cuts, a couple of these are in the local manifesto but
:55:57. > :56:03.several are not. They are on the UKIP website, which is still current
:56:04. > :56:08.and dated 2014. We like to make sure we are absolutely right. Let's talk
:56:09. > :56:13.about Nick Clegg and Michael Gove and the latest spat. Let me show you
:56:14. > :56:22.this headline in the Observer this morning. From both the Independent,
:56:23. > :56:33.he called him a zealot, lunatic is of -- another word. Do we take this
:56:34. > :56:39.seriously? It hinges on this question of what counts as an area
:56:40. > :56:42.of need in education. The Lib Dems say an area of need is one where
:56:43. > :56:47.there are not enough school places to meet local demand. He says it can
:56:48. > :56:51.also be a place where there are surplus places but that is for a
:56:52. > :57:04.reason. Local places don't trust those schools to do a good job for
:57:05. > :57:09.their kids. It surprises me because there isn't a yawning distance
:57:10. > :57:14.between David Laws and Michael Gove. David Laws has found himself between
:57:15. > :57:18.a rock and a hard place because I asked -- as I understand it most Lib
:57:19. > :57:22.Dems don't like the free schools but Mr laws was quite sympathetic to it
:57:23. > :57:29.and he is now having to this respect it. When they asked people who are
:57:30. > :57:34.the most hated politicians in a poll were this week, Michael Gove is off
:57:35. > :57:48.the charts, far above David Cameron or George Osborne. This is
:57:49. > :57:51.tit-for-tat war. The Liberal Democrats believe Michael Gove had a
:57:52. > :57:56.hand in leaking the document that showed Nick Clegg was opposing the
:57:57. > :58:00.tougher Chris Grayling position on knife crime. They are saying there
:58:01. > :58:05.were Cabinet ministers who never usually attend the sub Cabinet
:58:06. > :58:09.meeting, they turned up and the document is leaked so what we are
:58:10. > :58:14.getting is tit for tat on that. It is inevitable but it is not good for
:58:15. > :58:20.either side of the Coalition. Voters will look at it and say it is
:58:21. > :58:31.politics of the playground. I read in the Mail on Sunday this morning
:58:32. > :58:36.that some Tory insiders are accusing Lib Dems of spreading rumours about
:58:37. > :58:43.the camera in marriage. The rebuttals of education story is that
:58:44. > :58:52.the free school meals is sucking money away. I always thought they
:58:53. > :58:58.would work together without fuss and yet it has been more the source of
:58:59. > :59:04.disagreement then I would have expected a couple of years ago. Is
:59:05. > :59:11.it serious? It is serious obviously, using that language, but is it fatal
:59:12. > :59:14.for the Coalition? I think it is a road bump because I don't think
:59:15. > :59:18.anybody wants to dissolve the Coalition. It is a challenge for
:59:19. > :59:22.Labour because where do they stand on the free schools? They invented
:59:23. > :59:26.the Academy programme so it is difficult for them to take a
:59:27. > :59:30.hands-off approach at this stage. There was a danger for Michael Gove
:59:31. > :59:33.that he looks ideological but the danger for the Liberal Democrats is
:59:34. > :59:37.that they are breaking the rules for the Coalition they said that they
:59:38. > :59:43.wouldn't break which is that they looked like opposition in
:59:44. > :59:50.government. Is Michael Gove's position safe? Very safe. If he
:59:51. > :59:56.moves in a reshuffle that will be to a a job. That's all for today. The
:59:57. > :59:59.Daily Politics will be back on BBC Two at lunchtime from Tuesday
:00:00. > :00:02.onwards. I'll be back here on BBC One at 11am next week. Remember if
:00:03. > :00:50.it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.
:00:51. > :00:52.What if the person that killed her...
:00:53. > :00:56.I found out she'd been taking drugs. Just let me explain.
:00:57. > :00:59.You wasn't at that party all night. Yeah, I was.
:01:00. > :01:01.What was she even doing there? Oi, you keep your mouth shut.
:01:02. > :01:04.She was exchanging a significant number of texts and calls
:01:05. > :01:07.with someone in the weeks leading up to her death.
:01:08. > :01:13.It's like we didn't really know her at all.
:01:14. > :01:17.You never know what goes on behind closed doors.