:00:37. > :00:42.David Cameron slaps down two of his most senior Cabinet ministers
:00:43. > :00:47.over their public row about Islamist extremism in schools.
:00:48. > :00:53.And it?s HER special advisor that has to resign.
:00:54. > :00:57.We'll talk to the Shadow Education Secretary live
:00:58. > :01:01.Should this man become the next President of the EU Commission?
:01:02. > :01:04.David Cameron has staked a lot on stopping Luxembourg Federalist
:01:05. > :01:14.But could the arch europhile yet get the top job?
:01:15. > :01:16.Here's to the quarter of a million votes.
:01:17. > :01:21.And we'll find out why this political party is celebrating with
:01:22. > :01:25.a pint down the pub and how their success may have cost UKIP two MEPs.
:01:26. > :01:30.Coming up on the Sunday Polhtics in the South West:
:01:31. > :01:42.Has Boris Johnson deserted the suburbs and become a zone one man?
:01:43. > :01:46.And with me our panel of top political journalists,
:01:47. > :01:49.who are always squabbling among themselves, Nick Watt, Polly Toynbee
:01:50. > :01:51.and Janan Ganesh, who will be tweeting throughout the programme
:01:52. > :01:56.This morning's political news is dominated
:01:57. > :01:59.by the very public fall-out of Home Secretary Theresa May and
:02:00. > :02:03.The high viz blue on blue spat between two senior
:02:04. > :02:05.Conservatives centred around the Government's approach to tackling
:02:06. > :02:11.The row burst into the open ahead of the publication tomorrow of
:02:12. > :02:16.investigations into the so-called Trojan Horse plot in Birmingham
:02:17. > :02:19.where it is alleged several state schools have been covertly taken
:02:20. > :02:25.Mr Gove told The Times last week he was concerned that the Home Office
:02:26. > :02:28.was unwilling to tackle extremism at its roots.
:02:29. > :02:32.He said a robust response was needed to drain the swamp.
:02:33. > :02:34.In response, Mrs May's special advisor tweeted,
:02:35. > :02:37."why is the Department for Education wanting to blame other people
:02:38. > :02:44.Lord knows what more they have overlooked on the subject of the
:02:45. > :02:51.An angry David Cameron ordered a speedy inquiry.
:02:52. > :02:54.Last night, Mr Gove apologised to the Prime Minister, while Ms May's
:02:55. > :02:59.Speaking on the BBC earlier this morning
:03:00. > :03:08.this is what Foreign Secretary, William Hague, had to say.
:03:09. > :03:18.The main thing is the issue itself - tackling extremism in schools.
:03:19. > :03:24.The Government will be very clear, very robust about anything that s
:03:25. > :03:43.put children at risk - risk to their safety or learning.
:03:44. > :03:53.Let's look at the positive of this. Theresa May 's people of saying she
:03:54. > :04:00.has come off worse in theirs. Yelena Kushi is no more guilty than Michael
:04:01. > :04:07.Gove he was guilty of indiscretion. She is no more guilty. Even during
:04:08. > :04:12.13 years of new Labour 's psychodrama, I cannot remember an
:04:13. > :04:23.act of hostility quite as naked as direct as publishing on a website
:04:24. > :04:26.and intergovernmental letter. It suggests quite a lot of
:04:27. > :04:31.conservatives do not think they will win next time. Why would there be a
:04:32. > :04:38.leadership spat going on like this unless they thought there was a
:04:39. > :04:43.vacancy? Inside the Cabinet, Theresa May is getting quite a bashing. In
:04:44. > :04:49.the Sunday Times, someone has reported she is the date from hell.
:04:50. > :04:54.She sidles up to people and is nakedly ambitious. I think that is
:04:55. > :04:59.interesting. On the whole, nobody will understand the finesse
:05:00. > :05:04.differences of opinion. It is not serious, it is not serious, it is
:05:05. > :05:09.tactical. It'll be puzzling for most people and will probably fizzle out.
:05:10. > :05:16.Has the Prime Minister slapped it down or will it rumble on? On the
:05:17. > :05:22.politics of it, it will not fizzle out. What you have is Theresa May is
:05:23. > :05:26.deadly serious about replacing David Cameron, not dislodging him but
:05:27. > :05:31.replacing him if there is a vacancy. Michael Gove is deadly serious in
:05:32. > :05:36.ensuring George Osborne succeeds David Cameron. It will be that
:05:37. > :05:39.ongoing political rivalry. What is really interesting about this is the
:05:40. > :05:45.Prime Minister is absolutely fed up with both of them. He is fed up with
:05:46. > :05:50.Michael Gove full-size gearing of message. He had the row with Nick
:05:51. > :05:55.Clegg and he had a row with Theresa May. He named Charles Barr and
:05:56. > :06:04.criticised him in a lunch with the times. White brother he is the
:06:05. > :06:13.Security adviser at the Home Office. -- he is the security advisor. He is
:06:14. > :06:18.fed up with Theresa May for mounting an unannounced leader bid. What
:06:19. > :06:25.separates Theresa May from Michael Gove on dealing with extremism? The
:06:26. > :06:29.view from Michael Gove is that it shows no interest in Islamic
:06:30. > :06:34.extremism until it manifests in violent form. Theresa May is
:06:35. > :06:40.criticised for rolling back the programme which the previous Labour
:06:41. > :06:44.government introduced to do with the previous Labour government
:06:45. > :06:50.introduced to do with the Home Office has been made by other people
:06:51. > :06:55.and made when the Home Office was not run by Theresa May but previous
:06:56. > :06:57.home secretaries, even dating back to the Conservative government in
:06:58. > :07:03.the 1990s. It is about the laxity of the Government. Michael Gove has
:07:04. > :07:08.used extraordinary inflammatory language talking about draining the
:07:09. > :07:12.swamp. I think Theresa May 's view is you can very easily inflamed
:07:13. > :07:19.those emotions and create many more extremists the process. Michael Gove
:07:20. > :07:23.would say that his approach is entirely consistent with the speech
:07:24. > :07:27.the Prime Minister made to the Munich Security conference in 2 11
:07:28. > :07:29.when the Prime Minister talked about how extremists
:07:30. > :07:45.warp the grape great religion of Islam. The Birmingham school system
:07:46. > :07:51.is going to be one of the most reported systems in Europe.
:07:52. > :07:54.Joining me now from Kent is Shadow Education Secretary Tristram Hunt.
:07:55. > :08:04.Should parents of Birmingham children be worried that some of
:08:05. > :08:09.their schools are in the grip of an Islamist takeover? I think parents
:08:10. > :08:12.in Birmingham schools will be very disappointed by the political
:08:13. > :08:15.infighting going on in the Government. The briefings, the
:08:16. > :08:22.resignations, the apologies. The real apology that Michael Gove needs
:08:23. > :08:26.to deliver it to the pupil -- the pupils and parents of Birmingham.
:08:27. > :08:30.There was a potential threat of radicalisation. He fell to act for
:08:31. > :08:35.four years. The Labour Party is asking, when did he know the fact
:08:36. > :08:39.that radicalisation could have been taking place? What has been going on
:08:40. > :08:44.for the last four years? What we in the Labour Party want to see if much
:08:45. > :08:47.stronger systems of local oversight and accountability to situations
:08:48. > :08:52.like this do not arise again. Is there, in your view, if some of the
:08:53. > :09:02.Birmingham schools, an Islamist takeover? What we have seen in the
:09:03. > :09:07.leaked Ofsted report so far is fears about cultural isolation and an
:09:08. > :09:12.overconcentration on Islamic teaching within the curriculum. We
:09:13. > :09:16.want young people to celebrate their cultural identity, celebrate
:09:17. > :09:21.themselves as Muslims. We also want them to have an education which
:09:22. > :09:25.makes them succeed in multicultural 21st-century Birmingham. We want to
:09:26. > :09:32.be quite tough on moves towards gender segregation, a restricted
:09:33. > :09:37.curriculum. Birmingham is a multicultural city. We need an
:09:38. > :09:42.education system which celebrates that. What is wrong with gender
:09:43. > :09:49.segregation? You went to an all boys school. Where you have gender
:09:50. > :09:55.segregation, we have had a long tradition in Catholic schooling
:09:56. > :09:59.Where you have a state education system, which is about gender
:10:00. > :10:03.equality between boys and girls and there is an unofficial policy of
:10:04. > :10:08.gender segregation, that is unacceptable. We should not be
:10:09. > :10:14.tarring communities with the same brush in terms of radicalisation. We
:10:15. > :10:20.do want to see a successful, multicultural education. Two years
:10:21. > :10:25.ago, Ofsted rated Parkview as outstanding. Now it looks like
:10:26. > :10:31.tomorrow it is going into special measures. What is it up to? I do
:10:32. > :10:36.think there is an issue for Ofsted that you can go from outstanding to
:10:37. > :10:41.inadequate so quickly. That is why we are asking for a new criteria to
:10:42. > :10:48.be introduced to look at a broad and balanced curriculum. We have healthy
:10:49. > :10:52.sex and relationship education. There is a real issue this morning
:10:53. > :10:55.as the BBC has been reporting on the night for the Department of
:10:56. > :10:59.Education. We are hearing that some of those involved in the schools
:11:00. > :11:02.were not allowed to open a free school on security grounds. They
:11:03. > :11:07.were allowed to allow one of the schools to be taken over as an
:11:08. > :11:10.academy. We have a lack of oversight and accountability in schools within
:11:11. > :11:15.Birmingham. What the Labour Party wants is a local director of school
:11:16. > :11:24.standards to make sure we challenge underperformance and make sure we
:11:25. > :11:31.get in confronting Islamic extremism when it was in power? I was speaking
:11:32. > :11:35.to Hazel blears and she was very clear about the prevent programme
:11:36. > :11:44.which they rolled out when in office. A very atomised and
:11:45. > :11:52.fragmented school system where every school is looked at from behind a
:11:53. > :11:57.desk in Whitehall and he put that together and you do have an
:11:58. > :12:09.increased risk of chances of radicalisation. You have attacked Mr
:12:10. > :12:18.Gove for gross negligence. Was it the same -- you attacked Mr Gove for
:12:19. > :12:23.gross negligence. We are dealing with a government which has been in
:12:24. > :12:27.since 2010. The Government needs to hold the executive to account. We
:12:28. > :12:35.note the Department Michael Gove was warned by a senior and respected
:12:36. > :12:42.head teacher about fears over radicalism. What did he know and
:12:43. > :12:45.what did he act upon? We are hearing more reports of conversations about
:12:46. > :12:49.fears, about radicalisation, taking over some of the governing bodies of
:12:50. > :12:56.schools. We need to know what ministers did. Let me continue. You
:12:57. > :13:05.mention the capital to prevent strategy. Was it gross negligence
:13:06. > :13:08.for Labour to regularly consult a man who once headed a group
:13:09. > :13:15.dedicated to making Britain an Islamic state and wrote a book about
:13:16. > :13:19.schools full of Taliban style decrees. I think the events in
:13:20. > :13:26.Birmingham are enormously significant. About the nature of
:13:27. > :13:30.multiculturalism, the nature of education, the role of civic
:13:31. > :13:33.education, the role of faith schools. I will say to you this
:13:34. > :13:38.morning that Birmingham City Council, Ofsted, the Labour Party,
:13:39. > :13:48.the Department for Education were all involved in this conversation.
:13:49. > :13:52.In 2010, ministers were warned about potential radicalisation of schools
:13:53. > :13:57.and they fell to act. We need to know why, for years on, they allowed
:13:58. > :14:02.this situation to exacerbate. When you look at the record of labour and
:14:03. > :14:07.this government 's record, there are plenty of examples where both of you
:14:08. > :14:10.fail to act. Would it not be better to drop the party politics and get
:14:11. > :14:18.together to confront this problem for the sake of the children? There
:14:19. > :14:23.are a number of reports going on in Birmingham. Some are led by the city
:14:24. > :14:28.council, some by the Department for Education. Labour MPs this morning
:14:29. > :14:32.have come forward with the Bishop of Birmingham talking about faith in
:14:33. > :14:36.schools. If you have a minister failing to do their job, if you have
:14:37. > :14:40.a minister being given warnings in 2010 and failing to act on them for
:14:41. > :14:44.four years, the opposition has a role to hold the executive to
:14:45. > :14:49.account. This is about the safety and standards of teaching for pupils
:14:50. > :14:52.in Birmingham schools. It is about a great education for these young
:14:53. > :14:58.people so they can succeed in a modern, multicultural Britain. Do
:14:59. > :15:04.you agree with your Shadow Cabinet colleague, Rachel Reeves, that
:15:05. > :15:12.Labour' as core voters are abandoning the party? She was
:15:13. > :15:17.building on what Ed said the day after the elections in Berwick. We
:15:18. > :15:20.have to make sure those communities who we historically represent regard
:15:21. > :15:25.Labour as having a successful message for them. I am passionate
:15:26. > :15:28.about making sure we have great vocational and technical education,
:15:29. > :15:36.the great academic education in our schools. If we have more work to do
:15:37. > :15:39.to get people to the polling booths, we must do that. We must
:15:40. > :15:48.with listen to what she says. David Cameron has staked a lot on
:15:49. > :15:51.stopping the former PM of Luxembourg - named by one newspaper as 'the
:15:52. > :15:54.most dangerous man in Europe' because of his federalist views -
:15:55. > :15:57.from becoming the next president Mr Cameron has reportedly described
:15:58. > :16:04.Jean Claude Juncker as a 'face from the 80s who cannot solve the
:16:05. > :16:07.problems of the next five years . But with the German Chancellor
:16:08. > :16:10.Angela Merkel publicly backing Mr Juncker, it's not a dead cert that
:16:11. > :16:13.Mr Cameron can stop his appointment. This is what he had to say at the G7
:16:14. > :16:23.summit earlier this week: It is important that we have people
:16:24. > :16:27.running the institutions of Europe who understand the need for change
:16:28. > :16:32.and reform. I would argue that view is widely shared amongst other heads
:16:33. > :16:36.of government and heads of state in the European Union. I am clear what
:16:37. > :16:41.I want to achieve for Britain's future, to secure Britain's placed
:16:42. > :16:44.in a reformed European Union and I have a strategy for delivering
:16:45. > :16:48.that, a strategy for dealing with an issue which I think if we walk away
:16:49. > :16:50.from it would see Britain drift towards the exits.
:16:51. > :16:53.We've been joined from Berlin by the German MEP Elmar Brok who is
:16:54. > :16:56.a senior figure in the EPP - that's the party backing Mr Juncker.
:16:57. > :17:01.He's also Chairman of the Union of European Federalists.
:17:02. > :17:04.And in our Newcastle newsroom is the former Conservative MEP Martin
:17:05. > :17:08.Callanan who until last month led the European Conservatives
:17:09. > :17:16.and Reformists group in Brussels. Welcome to you both.
:17:17. > :17:24.The United Kingdom, Sweden, Hungary, they don't want Mr Junker, the new
:17:25. > :17:31.Italian Prime Minister doesn't look keen either, should he bow out
:17:32. > :17:37.gracefully? First of all, he wants to have Mr Junker but he wants to
:17:38. > :17:44.have his conditions. Will he become president of the European Council, a
:17:45. > :17:48.high representative? It is a discussion to be had in the next
:17:49. > :17:54.three or four weeks until the European Parliament can elect the
:17:55. > :17:58.president of the European Council after the proposal of the European
:17:59. > :18:03.Council, which has to be done after consultation with the Parliament in
:18:04. > :18:11.the light of the European elections and by a majority vote. If not Mr
:18:12. > :18:15.Junker, then who? There are many available candidates, I am not going
:18:16. > :18:23.to mention them in front of someone so esteemed as Elmar Brok. Give us
:18:24. > :18:28.one name that you would prefer? The prime Minister of Sweden, Christine
:18:29. > :18:34.Lagarde, the minister from Lithuania, these are people who have
:18:35. > :18:41.a record of old reform. Junker is the ultimate Europe insider. We need
:18:42. > :18:46.radical inform. We need to respond to the message the electorate gave
:18:47. > :18:51.us in the elections -- radical reform. Junker said he had to lie in
:18:52. > :18:55.public, he allowed the security services to conduct a dirty tricks
:18:56. > :19:00.campaign against his opponent. This is not who we want leading the
:19:01. > :19:03.European Commission. Elmar Brok since the European voters have sent
:19:04. > :19:07.a message to the parliament that they are not happy with the status
:19:08. > :19:13.quo, why would you want a man who is synonymous with the status quo?
:19:14. > :19:24.First of all what Martin has said is wrong. He has not done tricks
:19:25. > :19:30.against his opponents. He was very clear on that. He is also the man
:19:31. > :19:35.who was always for changes. He made dramatic changes as head of the Euro
:19:36. > :19:39.group, came out of the economic crisis which was a result of the
:19:40. > :19:43.financial crisis, made politics possible, to stop this incredible
:19:44. > :19:48.financial sector influence of our states. I believe he is a man who
:19:49. > :19:53.works on the programme which Mrs Merkel and others have decided in
:19:54. > :19:57.Dublin, for the reform of the European Union, less government But
:19:58. > :20:02.we need Europe more and he is not a man from the 80s. He is a man of
:20:03. > :20:06.this century and in this century he made his own policy. He is the
:20:07. > :20:09.winner of the European elections, he has a majority will stop Mrs
:20:10. > :20:15.LANguard is not running because she knows she will not get the majority
:20:16. > :20:21.in the European Parliament. -- Christine Lagarde is not running. It
:20:22. > :20:29.is the Council of minister is that decides. No, the European Parliament
:20:30. > :20:33.has the final word. The European Council can make a proposal by
:20:34. > :20:34.majority in the light of the European elections after
:20:35. > :20:39.consultation with the European Parliament. The council cannot get a
:20:40. > :20:46.candidate against the will of the European Parliament. Mr Junker has a
:20:47. > :20:49.majority in the European Parliament. Theoretically he is right, the
:20:50. > :20:53.Parliament has do vote on the candidates proposed by the council.
:20:54. > :20:58.I want to challenge the view that somehow he won the European
:20:59. > :21:02.elections. There is no provision for Jean Claude Junker to stand in the
:21:03. > :21:06.elections. He is saying that the EEP party got the most number of seats
:21:07. > :21:10.in the Parliament but none of the electorate knew they were taking
:21:11. > :21:12.part in this election. How many people who voted Labour in the
:21:13. > :21:17.United Kingdom realised that their vote would count towards a German
:21:18. > :21:25.socialist to be a candidate for the commission of presidency is a
:21:26. > :21:28.nonsensical proposal. The elections were 28 individual elections with
:21:29. > :21:31.hundreds of parties across Europe. To try to claim there is a
:21:32. > :21:34.democratic mandate for somebody nobody has heard from Luxembourg to
:21:35. > :21:52.take over the commission is a nonsense. People should know him, if
:21:53. > :21:55.I should say that ironically. Newspapers talking about members of
:21:56. > :22:04.the family of his wife with Nazi links... What is the answer to
:22:05. > :22:07.Martin Callinan's point? I think it is clear that British Conservatives
:22:08. > :22:12.have no candidate because they are not a broad European family, they
:22:13. > :22:16.have not impacted on the selection of top candidates but it is a form
:22:17. > :22:23.of isolation of the British Tory Party. The Prime Minister said if Mr
:22:24. > :22:27.Junker is appointed it could lead to Britain drifting towards the EU
:22:28. > :22:32.exit, is that credible? Is it melodramatic? It is true that we
:22:33. > :22:35.want to renegotiate the relationship. We want some serious
:22:36. > :22:40.reform in Europe so the people who vote in a referendum will be able to
:22:41. > :22:47.vote to stay in if that is what they want. We need a bold reformer,
:22:48. > :22:52.somebody prepared to engage. That is not anti the interests of the UK. We
:22:53. > :22:55.need to recognise there is a problem with public perception of the
:22:56. > :22:58.European Union. Elmar Brok is proud to be one of the last bastions of
:22:59. > :23:02.federalism that that is not where most of the public opinion is in
:23:03. > :23:08.Europe. I understand why he wants his man installed but we need to
:23:09. > :23:14.take into account the message of the letter -- the electorate. 25% of the
:23:15. > :23:20.publishing of France were prepared to vote for an openly racist party.
:23:21. > :23:26.We can't just ignore the signal that the electorate were sending us. If
:23:27. > :23:30.enthusiasm for federalism was at an all-time low, it would be a slap in
:23:31. > :23:37.the face for the voters of Europe to have a federalist as the president,
:23:38. > :23:42.would it not? 70, 80% of the members of the European Parliament, selected
:23:43. > :23:46.by their people, are pro-Europeans. These are the winners of the
:23:47. > :23:49.European elections. Even in France, a majority of voters have voted
:23:50. > :23:53.pro-European and that should be clear, not to make this a populist
:23:54. > :24:05.thing which is not only to do with Europe. And we want to have a Europe
:24:06. > :24:11.which is strong, the member states should do their things. We do not
:24:12. > :24:15.want to have a European centralism, we do not want a European state
:24:16. > :24:18.This is not at stake. Let's talk about the question of better
:24:19. > :24:23.governance, let's talk about what was wrong in the past, we have to
:24:24. > :24:28.become better, to change our programme in that question. That
:24:29. > :24:35.should be the way we lead to come to positive results. Thank you for
:24:36. > :24:37.that. Before we go, there is a British commissioner that needs to
:24:38. > :24:43.be appointed to Brussels, do you like the sound of that? These are
:24:44. > :24:49.matters for the Prime Minister, I am sure he has many excellent
:24:50. > :24:57.candidates. Do you like the sound of it? Like previous British
:24:58. > :25:01.commissioners, Chris Patten, Neil clinic, I have just lost an election
:25:02. > :25:07.-- Neil Kinnock for the everybody who is asked would serve, I'm sure.
:25:08. > :25:10.Just days ago UKIP were celebrating topping the poll in the European
:25:11. > :25:16.They're claiming they'd have had two more MEPs
:25:17. > :25:19.and the Greens two fewer had another party not confused the electorate.
:25:20. > :25:22.What's more UKIP say it's the fault of the body
:25:23. > :25:25.which was set up to oversee elections - the Electoral Commission
:25:26. > :25:38.This is a party celebrating success at the European elections. They
:25:39. > :25:44.didn't win a single MEP but nationally polled 250,000 votes
:25:45. > :25:48.They are an independence from Europe, mostly people who were once
:25:49. > :25:52.in UKIP, and that is rather the point. They may look like capers,
:25:53. > :26:08.in UKIP, and that is rather the drink like capers, sound like capers
:26:09. > :26:16.-- -- sound like kippers, but they are not. The name and the logo were
:26:17. > :26:21.displayed on this banner when the party launched its campaign. UKIP
:26:22. > :26:26.suggest the look, the wording and the inclusion of UK in now confused
:26:27. > :26:31.voters, and are looking at rewriting such a wrong. The way that seats are
:26:32. > :26:36.allocated in a European election under a proportional representation
:26:37. > :26:41.system is using this formula. It was invented by a Belgian mathematician
:26:42. > :26:48.in 1878 and it is essentially this. When all of the votes have been
:26:49. > :26:52.tallied up, the one with the most seats gets the first MEPC in a
:26:53. > :26:58.region. The others are allocated using votes cast divided by the
:26:59. > :27:04.number of seats gained plus one -- first MEP seat in a region. UKIP
:27:05. > :27:09.were concerned with South West and London. There they say, when the
:27:10. > :27:13.last MEP seats were being allocated, if everyone who had voted for an
:27:14. > :27:17.independence from Europe had meant to vote for UKIP and you tallied
:27:18. > :27:23.their votes up, and added them to UKIP, UKIP would have been up one in
:27:24. > :27:29.each region and the greens would have lost them. Whether you can
:27:30. > :27:36.prove that voters did that by mistake is a very different matter.
:27:37. > :27:40.UKIP may have to just chalk it up to experience. It has happened before,
:27:41. > :27:45.back in the European elections of 1994. Then in England under the
:27:46. > :27:50.first past the post system. This man, Richard Huggett, decided to
:27:51. > :27:54.stand as a little Democrat and polled a significant number of
:27:55. > :28:00.votes. The Liberal Democrat candidate at the time is now an MP.
:28:01. > :28:07.Many people voted and afterwards realised that they had bubbly voted
:28:08. > :28:11.for -- probably voted for a little Democrat, not a Liberal Democrat as
:28:12. > :28:16.they had been intending to do - bubbly voted for a literal Democrat
:28:17. > :28:30.-- probably voted. Mr Sanders got some consolation In
:28:31. > :28:32.1998, laws came into rule on so-called spoiler tactics and the
:28:33. > :28:35.Electoral Commission was established. The Electoral
:28:36. > :28:38.Commission are based on the seventh floor of this building and they did
:28:39. > :28:41.look into this issue prior to voting. They have given us a
:28:42. > :28:46.statement that reveals the conclusion they came to, part of
:28:47. > :28:51.which says, we decided that the name of the party, and its description
:28:52. > :28:56.are sufficiently different to those registered by the UK Independence
:28:57. > :29:00.Party, UKIP, to mean, in our opinion, that voters were not likely
:29:01. > :29:07.to be confused if they appeared on the same ballot paper. Pretty
:29:08. > :29:11.conclusive stuff. Back at the pub, were an independence from Europe
:29:12. > :29:18.just being crafty, or do UKIP need to wake up and smell the flowers? We
:29:19. > :29:19.attack them in all areas. An independent study for Anglo
:29:20. > :29:24.Netherlands because I was involved in the Dutch -- with the Dutch
:29:25. > :29:30.member of Parliament and the description was UK Independence now,
:29:31. > :29:35.nobody has a monopoly on the word independence. I have been fighting
:29:36. > :29:41.for independence since I started in 1994, before I joined UKIP. The
:29:42. > :29:44.party tell me they will stand again at the general election next year.
:29:45. > :29:50.The ironies not lost on them or the major parties of UKIP complaining
:29:51. > :29:59.that a smaller party has been taking votes of them.
:30:00. > :30:02.Joining me now to discuss this story is Gawain Towler.
:30:03. > :30:06.He's the UKIP candidate for the South West region, who failed to get
:30:07. > :30:10.And in our Bristol studios is the victorious Green MEP for
:30:11. > :30:24.How many of the 23,000 votes that were cast for the Independence party
:30:25. > :30:29.were meant for you? Impossible to tell. I want to congratulate Molly
:30:30. > :30:34.for getting elected. They are the breaks. I do not think there is a
:30:35. > :30:47.purpose in complaining about boats that are cast. Do you think you
:30:48. > :30:49.would have one otherwise? Yes, I do. You have to look at the
:30:50. > :30:51.would have one otherwise? Yes, I do. You have to look boats for parties
:30:52. > :30:57.people have not heard of and those with a long tradition that people
:30:58. > :31:04.have heard of. I do not think there is any doubt. If you saw the spoiled
:31:05. > :31:10.ballot papers, the amount of people who had voted at the top and the
:31:11. > :31:15.bottom, most people are not anoraks, they say, they are the people I
:31:16. > :31:30.want. They know what they are after. I think it is at least told. It is
:31:31. > :31:37.said you owe your seat to And Independence Party. It is strange
:31:38. > :31:44.for a man to say he could represent people in the south-west better than
:31:45. > :31:50.me. There has been outpouring of delight that a Green MP has finally
:31:51. > :31:55.been elected. A number of people have been saying they have been
:31:56. > :32:00.voting all their lives and it is the first time they have elected
:32:01. > :32:04.anybody. I am glad to represent them in a significant legislature. What
:32:05. > :32:13.would you say to that? I find it strange. I am perfectly happy for
:32:14. > :32:17.her to be elected. I feel the electoral commission has questions
:32:18. > :32:23.to answer. But, congratulations to Molly. Why do you want an extra seat
:32:24. > :32:30.for the Greens in the European Parliament but your national share
:32:31. > :32:34.of the vote actually fell. We did come under pressure nationally. If
:32:35. > :32:39.he is complaining about the role the election commission said we could
:32:40. > :32:43.stand, the rule we were not happy with was the off, ruling which said
:32:44. > :32:50.we were not a main party. We got significantly less media time and
:32:51. > :32:53.that is why our belt actually fell. Not on the Daily Politics or the
:32:54. > :33:04.Sunday Politics, where you were well represented. Was it a problem for
:33:05. > :33:19.UKIP in other parts of the country? Only in London. What do you think
:33:20. > :33:23.happened there? Very much the same. I do not think there is any doubt,
:33:24. > :33:28.the number of people we have had getting in touch saying, I am really
:33:29. > :33:32.sorry, I made a mess, that they voted for the wrong party. They are
:33:33. > :33:37.the breaks. Politics is politics. What I would like to see and what is
:33:38. > :33:43.reasonable, and I hope Molly would agree, there needs to be a reform -
:33:44. > :33:50.a serious reform of the Electoral Commission. There is no appeal
:33:51. > :33:57.process. They say it is not confusing. Lets see if she thinks
:33:58. > :34:01.that. I make it a policy never to agree with UKIP. What is important
:34:02. > :34:04.to note, if you look at the votes and the way the votes fell out and
:34:05. > :34:09.the seats fell out in the south-west, it is difficult for an
:34:10. > :34:15.Electoral Commission to turn boats into seats. UKIP got 33% of the vote
:34:16. > :34:22.and 33% of the seats. For them, the system worked very well in the
:34:23. > :34:26.south-west. Nationally, Greens did not get represented as the vote
:34:27. > :34:30.share would require. That is because you get very small number of seats
:34:31. > :34:34.in the different regions and you have to reach a high threshold. The
:34:35. > :34:39.Green Party has a right to complain about the level of seats we have
:34:40. > :34:46.ended up with. White rapper you have complaints about the Electoral
:34:47. > :34:50.Commission? We need to move to a proportional system for elections
:34:51. > :34:54.generally. If we poll around 7% 8%, we should be looking at having 0,
:34:55. > :34:59.40 seats in the national legislature. We need to consider
:35:00. > :35:04.proportional representation for national elections. Do you accept
:35:05. > :35:08.the ballot paper may have confused some people? I think what happened
:35:09. > :35:15.is that some people in UKIP were very worried. Worried about the
:35:16. > :35:19.rightward move of UKIP and the authoritarian leadership of Nigel
:35:20. > :35:24.Farage. He set up a separate party. That is what happens in politics,
:35:25. > :35:35.particularly when parties are led by demagogues and are not focused on
:35:36. > :35:40.Democratic policy. Do you have any legal redress to this? None
:35:41. > :35:49.whatsoever. Have you had legal advice? I am told there is no
:35:50. > :35:53.redress. We do feel, I am sure Molly does not agree with UKIP on anything
:35:54. > :35:59.so, if we say the sun rises in the morning, she probably will disagree
:36:00. > :36:07.with that. If, at the next election, there is a party called the Grown
:36:08. > :36:11.Party, will she then complain? There needs to be some level of
:36:12. > :36:18.accountability and, without that, one wonders what is going on. We
:36:19. > :36:21.have an organisation with enormous and important power and influence
:36:22. > :36:29.which is setup to stop this of thing going on. It has failed. Not has it
:36:30. > :36:32.has failed. Not present served in Tower Hamlets and there have been
:36:33. > :36:38.massive problems with postal votes. It is failing on almost everything
:36:39. > :36:43.it is supposed to do. Just to go back for a final point from Molly.
:36:44. > :36:48.Should there be a right of appeal to the rulings of the Electoral
:36:49. > :36:51.Commission? You need to have an authoritative body that makes
:36:52. > :36:55.decisions in this area and we have the Electoral Commission. It is
:36:56. > :37:01.about being sore losers on the part of UKIP. I am delighted to represent
:37:02. > :37:07.people in the South West. Should there be a right of appeal or not?
:37:08. > :37:10.You need an authoritative body and the Electoral Commission is that. I
:37:11. > :37:12.do not think it should have a right to appeal.
:37:13. > :37:17.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
:37:18. > :37:33.Coming up here in 20 minutes, we'll be discussing extremism
:37:34. > :37:37.Coming up on the Sunday Polhtics in the South West:
:37:38. > :37:40.The price of beef and a warning regions like ours could fall behind
:37:41. > :37:44.Transport links outside London are on the agenda.
:37:45. > :37:46.The South West has been described as chronically underfunded.
:37:47. > :37:49.And for the next 20 minutes, I'm joined by two former MPs but
:37:50. > :37:52.still very much active politicians ` the Lib Dem peer John Burnett and
:37:53. > :38:05.I want that talk about the broader political picture, John, we have had
:38:06. > :38:10.a catastrophic result for the Liberal Democrats in the Newark
:38:11. > :38:16.by`election and a grim result in the Europe... I'm glad you can laugh!
:38:17. > :38:24.Hang on a minute! In the European elections. What is your rechpe to
:38:25. > :38:28.try to pull the party up ag`in? Let's try, without wanting to be too
:38:29. > :38:33.controversial so early in the programme, I do understand ht hasn't
:38:34. > :38:37.been a brilliant three or four months. Bad European elections, bad
:38:38. > :38:46.local elections on the same day and Newark was not good. You just
:38:47. > :38:55.managed to beat the loony c`ndidate, Nick The Flying Brick. With Newark,
:38:56. > :38:59.we had easterly last year and rather inauspicious circumstances, similar
:39:00. > :39:06.circumstances for the Conservatives, two MPs, sitting MPs, resigning in
:39:07. > :39:13.disgrace I think one would have to say. And we won in easterly and the
:39:14. > :39:17.Conservatives won last night. But that was then, this is now. We are a
:39:18. > :39:22.year from a general election. The point is a good point, I'm saying
:39:23. > :39:26.the electorate are sophisticated and they look at by`election and they
:39:27. > :39:31.decide which is the candidate who is most likely to win. It is what I
:39:32. > :39:36.call a by`election squeeze. We were like live to win, UKIP were second
:39:37. > :39:41.and so it was a choice betwden the liberals and UKIP. Yet it w`s a
:39:42. > :39:46.choice between the Conservatives, UKIP and in both circumstances the
:39:47. > :39:52.sitting candidates' party prevailed. We take some, where we have sitting
:39:53. > :39:58.MPs, I think we are... We are in a better position than a lot of people
:39:59. > :40:02.say. We have one now ex`Libdral Democrat peer, Lord Oakeshott who
:40:03. > :40:06.had firm views on a change of direction and leader for thd party,
:40:07. > :40:10.do you have any advice for the party as a whole, for the leader? My
:40:11. > :40:17.advice is to stick with the coalition. Not to break the bonds we
:40:18. > :40:22.have made. Not to break the decision we have made. Stick with it to the
:40:23. > :40:26.end. And I think there will be differences, which will comd to
:40:27. > :40:30.light. As they have done in the past. But stick with it. It is the
:40:31. > :40:36.country, will reward us. I'l conVinced of that on general
:40:37. > :40:39.election evening. Because wd were in a catastrophicically bad situation
:40:40. > :40:48.as a country and we put our party differences to one side for the good
:40:49. > :40:51.of country. It looks as if Conservative voters are ple`sed with
:40:52. > :40:54.their party and the people who are pleased with you, say they have
:40:55. > :40:59.propped up the Conservatives and nodded through a lot of polhcies we
:41:00. > :41:04.can't stand. Well, there have been a lot of policies that we havd put
:41:05. > :41:09.forward. Raising... You're not getting any credit for it. Ht is
:41:10. > :41:12.good of you to imply we havd done some good Liberal Democrat things.
:41:13. > :41:17.On the ground, John, the Liberal Democrats are a busted flush. The
:41:18. > :41:21.electorate for the first tile had a chance to look at you and they don't
:41:22. > :41:24.like what they have seen. I think they believe and they will believe
:41:25. > :41:29.on a general election day that we have done something for the
:41:30. > :41:34.country's good. Not for our narrow political ends and we will get
:41:35. > :41:38.credit for that. I just don't accept that. I think the people have seen
:41:39. > :41:43.and they haven't liked. I don't think it is going to come b`ck in
:41:44. > :41:48.any way. I think you are in for a grim night next May. As are the
:41:49. > :41:53.Conservatives, because people don't like that. When it comes to a choice
:41:54. > :41:58.between UKIP and the Conservatives, moat would rather go with the
:41:59. > :42:02.Conservatives. Things are not going brilliantly for Labour. At this
:42:03. > :42:07.point, we're a year from a general election, you should be doing
:42:08. > :42:14.better. New ark demographics meant we were not in a strong poshtion.
:42:15. > :42:17.The media, it has just made it a Conservative/UKIP race and people
:42:18. > :42:24.don't think that if the othdr parties have a chance. Candx, don't
:42:25. > :42:27.blame the media, you're showing an Achilles heel there. You have to
:42:28. > :42:31.look at yourself. Of course. If we look at elections in the Sotth West
:42:32. > :42:36.and in Plymouth, a city that either controlled by the Conservathves or
:42:37. > :42:42.by Labour, you have just held on to control, losing seats to UKHP. We
:42:43. > :42:48.lost one or two. Three. All right three. I'm not in that partx. It is
:42:49. > :42:52.generally head`to`head and xou should be doing well. We ard doing
:42:53. > :43:02.much better than people are giving us credit for in local crithcal
:43:03. > :43:06.elections UKIP won 149 seats we won 1,500, taking the key seats we need
:43:07. > :43:11.to win. Yes, we are going to have to work harder in Plymouth. But I think
:43:12. > :43:16.Luke and Pollard and others will win and we will have more Labour MPs in
:43:17. > :43:20.the South West come May and we are in a different position to the
:43:21. > :43:24.Liberal Democrats. Are you happy with Ed Milliband? Yes, I stpported
:43:25. > :43:28.Ed Milliband. I don't believe you should be electing your polhticians
:43:29. > :43:36.on whether you think they'rd slightly not photo generalic. ``
:43:37. > :43:40.photo genic. Would Winston Churchill have won? No, we need polithcians
:43:41. > :43:44.that will engage on the isste who have bright minds and will lead our
:43:45. > :43:48.country. I think that when the country gets to know Ed Milliband
:43:49. > :43:53.they will like what they sed. Maybe he is just not smoking a Sigg ah?
:43:54. > :44:00.Maybe not.//`` cigar. This week a cross`party grotp of MPs
:44:01. > :44:03.called on the Government to tackle the chronic underfunding
:44:04. > :44:05.of transport outside London. The Transport Select Committee also
:44:06. > :44:07.says it's concerned that ch`nges to the way regions bid
:44:08. > :44:10.for infrastructure money cotld see areas like the South West f`lling
:44:11. > :44:12.even further behind. When you're a business
:44:13. > :44:15.which needs to get goods to clients, Particularly if,
:44:16. > :44:25.like this Cornish lighting firm 99% Customers will not buy from someone
:44:26. > :44:30.they don't think will delivdr the goods on time all of the tile. Price
:44:31. > :44:42.doesn't come into it. If yot can't deliver the goods, it will be China.
:44:43. > :44:44.This week MPs on the Transport Select Committee said
:44:45. > :44:46.the underfunding of transport projects in the regions when
:44:47. > :44:50.The latest available Governlent figures show spending per hdad in
:44:51. > :44:54.the South West is the lowest in the whole of the country at ?184 a head,
:44:55. > :44:59.For the lighting company, it's improvements to the A30 and the
:45:00. > :45:04.Just a few miles from Peter's factory is this notorious bottleneck
:45:05. > :45:07.The traffic might be flowing freely today, but in the sulmer
:45:08. > :45:10.months queues can sometimes stretch up to nine miles long.
:45:11. > :45:12.The Government's given ?30 lillion to widen it,
:45:13. > :45:16.but Cornwall Council's still finding the funds to match this.
:45:17. > :45:18.With the impact of this year's storms on thd
:45:19. > :45:21.region's rail links still top of people's minds, the MPs report also
:45:22. > :45:27.warns a new funding system from next year might not make things fairer.
:45:28. > :45:30.The bodies responsible for driving economic growth ` Local Entdrprise
:45:31. > :45:35.Partnerships ` will be compdting for money from a central pot.
:45:36. > :45:43.There are well resourced LEPs and less well resourced. The better
:45:44. > :45:48.resource rd more likely to do better. The interests of Devon and
:45:49. > :45:51.Cornwall are almost identic`l for transport. But they're two separate
:45:52. > :45:56.LEPs. If they were one, thex would have twice the resource in order to
:45:57. > :46:05.compete with other parts of the country.
:46:06. > :46:08.But others argue there is already a joint approach
:46:09. > :46:10.on all major transport topics like the A303 or rail links.
:46:11. > :46:12.And there's a determination not to be shdelined
:46:13. > :46:15.The system where you have competition means your fighting
:46:16. > :46:21.agains people who can probably put up a bigger case. But the
:46:22. > :46:25.alternative of allocation works against somewhere like Cornwall with
:46:26. > :46:30.a small population. Neither of the alternatives are perfect. So I think
:46:31. > :46:38.the only answer is to actually just ensure you argue your case very
:46:39. > :46:45.strongly. As well as A30, there has been Government cash wards various
:46:46. > :46:49.projects. But the select colmittee said funding for no area should
:46:50. > :46:51.continue to be second class. And ministers now have two months to
:46:52. > :47:07.respond. Transport links are a thing which
:47:08. > :47:10.the South West feels hard done by and the Conservatives and the
:47:11. > :47:14.Liberal Democrat are saying this is because we have a Labour government
:47:15. > :47:19.and not many MP ands they'rd not interested in us. If these LPs are
:47:20. > :47:24.like `` right we are looking at situation where that could get
:47:25. > :47:27.worse? The commons had a good debate about this and certain commhtments
:47:28. > :47:32.were made by the Government minister. That was two or three
:47:33. > :47:38.months ago. I will hope, I hope to have a debate in the House of Lords
:47:39. > :47:42.on this before the Christmas recess. The point is there has been
:47:43. > :47:46.considerable neglect of the South West for decades. We need bdtter
:47:47. > :47:51.transport, we need fairer ftnding for schools and fairer fundhng for
:47:52. > :47:58.the police for that matter. Now on transport, in my view we have a case
:47:59. > :48:03.that is unanswerable. You absolutely, it is most perstasive,
:48:04. > :48:07.roads, rail and air actuallx, you missed the air side, becausd
:48:08. > :48:14.Plymouth has lost its airport. It is important. I believe in competition.
:48:15. > :48:18.I believe in free markets. But you must allow competition to rtn fairly
:48:19. > :48:21.and it has not opinion fair for decades for us in the South West.
:48:22. > :48:25.Because we don't have the infrastructure to help our
:48:26. > :48:31.businesses and our enterprises and there is you know, we inherhted I
:48:32. > :48:36.won't go on too much about ht, but a par louse economic situation. So we
:48:37. > :48:41.haven't been able to be libdral with money. In the next Parliament we
:48:42. > :48:46.have done our house keeping and kept expenditure down. Let's hopd, let's
:48:47. > :48:52.pray we get more funding, ddcent roads and rail Wau and maybd a rail
:48:53. > :48:57.link between through Okehampton and Tavistock. If we have a Labour
:48:58. > :49:04.Government will we have to hope and pray? Don't think. There has been
:49:05. > :49:09.praying and not much hope whth this government. You have had yotr turn.
:49:10. > :49:13.A Labour Government will devolve money. What worries me about the
:49:14. > :49:17.proposals is the private sector will bid. We know that the one place
:49:18. > :49:21.where there is loads of mondy is London and that is where thdy will
:49:22. > :49:28.be attracted to go. I saw your figures. But I have seen figures
:49:29. > :49:32.that say we get ?18 a head `s opposed to over 2,000 in London The
:49:33. > :49:37.result is that we are not gdtting our fair share. If you devolve money
:49:38. > :49:40.to the region, that is ring fenced for the region. I think loc`l
:49:41. > :49:45.authorities and the Governmdnt can work together rather than this idea
:49:46. > :49:49.that the private sector will come rung along and put loads of money
:49:50. > :49:56.into Devon and Cornwall. It is not going to happen. A Labour mhnister
:49:57. > :50:03.from the South West pupped the plug on the 8. 30. And Liberal Ddmocrats
:50:04. > :50:08.stopped the dualing of A30. You had a regional structure with more
:50:09. > :50:13.public money and none of thd things were achieved when you were in
:50:14. > :50:19.government. Dualing of the trains and the A30, which people s`id it
:50:20. > :50:22.would never happen and it dhd. And people actually were amazed that
:50:23. > :50:29.happened. That dualing was critical and it has helped amazingly. Look at
:50:30. > :50:33.the small branch lines in Cornwall, held up nationally as a gre`t
:50:34. > :50:37.example, funded through European and government money. You and I will
:50:38. > :50:42.agree on this, successive governments have let down the South
:50:43. > :50:49.West. But we haven't had thd money. Next time just give us a ch`nce It
:50:50. > :50:55.is true that the, both you `nd the Conservatives are against rdgional
:50:56. > :51:00.structures and we have many LEPs and the old government region is
:51:01. > :51:05.geographically identical with the big transport schemes, becatse the
:51:06. > :51:11.rail is fine beyond Wiltshire. Isn't there an argument for doing it on a
:51:12. > :51:18.regional basis? Not so much to us. But it is to the Conservatives. I no
:51:19. > :51:22.ethat. And all I can say is that the politicians of Devon and Cornwall
:51:23. > :51:26.should peek `` speak with one voice. They're beginning to. The ddbate
:51:27. > :51:30.showed a coherence between `ll three parties that something must be done.
:51:31. > :51:35.We have been left out for f`r too long. Decades of neglect. I would
:51:36. > :51:39.agree and we need to do that. In Cornwall, many of us are saxing very
:51:40. > :51:44.many things about what Cornwall needs to solve many of its own
:51:45. > :51:47.problems. But this bidding for the private sector is not going to help
:51:48. > :51:59.anyone and not going to help the South West. OK K
:52:00. > :52:02.Farmers in the region say they're on the brink of protest acthon
:52:03. > :52:05.as the price they're paid for beef continues to spiral downwards.
:52:06. > :52:08.Some are now getting as much as ?500 less for each animal than
:52:09. > :52:11.Anna Varle has been finding out more.
:52:12. > :52:14.This time last year organic cattle like these were making
:52:15. > :52:29.I can't without making profht. The cattle are in jeopardy if things
:52:30. > :52:35.don't improve. But it is thd cattle that make this countryside. If you
:52:36. > :52:37.look around, this beautiful part of the country. Without cattle grazing
:52:38. > :52:57.it. It wouldn't be. The English Beef and Lamb Executive
:52:58. > :53:00.says there are two main reasons Firstly,
:53:01. > :53:03.consumers are buying less bdcause of And, secondly, there's
:53:04. > :53:07.a lot more beef being imported And it's got to
:53:08. > :53:11.the stage where farmers are considering taking action
:53:12. > :53:20.if no agreement can be reached Kuze uz We are close to getting
:53:21. > :53:26.action. We have a meeting whth the retailer. But we need something to
:53:27. > :53:31.happen quickly. Farmers are in a dire strait and producing bdef at a
:53:32. > :53:35.loss. It is not sustainable. We need to know where the retailers need to
:53:36. > :53:40.source this meat from. If they don't want us, tell us. We will h`ve to
:53:41. > :53:44.change our farming activitids, but people are desperate.
:53:45. > :53:55.We need to take action. We can't sustain the way things are. Between
:53:56. > :53:58.us we have got to try and work together with all these othdr group
:53:59. > :54:04.and see what we can do for the industry. I think the Government
:54:05. > :54:09.should intervene in the beef price. Because we have got the best welfare
:54:10. > :54:16.standards there are in the world and we are being undermined by cheap
:54:17. > :54:19.meat coming in. At the moment we are being really hammered. It is going
:54:20. > :54:25.to be survival of the fittest I think. But is it time for the
:54:26. > :54:29.Government to intervene? We are doing stuff to support the hndustry,
:54:30. > :54:33.but we can't dictate prices. We want to support the industry and see a
:54:34. > :54:38.thriving sector. There is the demand for the product. It is making sure
:54:39. > :54:44.that that price gets through to the farm gate. The British Retahl
:54:45. > :54:48.Consortium says they're payhng beef farm terse best price and not
:54:49. > :54:52.responsible for this fall. Ht says that supermarkets continue to
:54:53. > :54:58.support British beef and th`t the majority of beef sold is sthll
:54:59. > :55:04.produced in this country. It is hoped talks between retailers and
:55:05. > :55:10.farmers will avert any future action. It is well known th`t John
:55:11. > :55:16.is a former marine and also a former cattle farmer. Cattle and corn and I
:55:17. > :55:21.loved my farming and I love to see the Devon there too. But thhs is a
:55:22. > :55:24.serious point. It concerns le. There have always been fluctuations in
:55:25. > :55:31.brief prices and there is competition and markets. Obviously,
:55:32. > :55:35.the pound is strong and there is confidence in sterling. That affects
:55:36. > :55:39.the price. Because it makes it cheaper to import. What has
:55:40. > :55:44.concerned me is the problem with milk as well, there is a suspicion
:55:45. > :55:48.those of us who have been ehther in agriculture or involved in
:55:49. > :55:51.agriculture, that I won't use the world collusion, but the
:55:52. > :55:56.supermarkets seem to have a way not a rigging of the market, but making
:55:57. > :55:59.sure they get a good deal from the farmerment That is a free m`rket
:56:00. > :56:03.isn't it? It not a free market if they collude. I don't know whether
:56:04. > :56:09.they are or not. But I suspdct that it won't be long before an
:56:10. > :56:12.application is made to to grocery adjudicator to look at this to make
:56:13. > :56:17.sure the market is working properly. Which the Government has just set
:56:18. > :56:22.up. They set it up a year ago if you look on the web`site the supermarket
:56:23. > :56:27.Tzar as they're called, doesn't appear to have done anything. Maybe
:56:28. > :56:30.we will give him a job to do now. All the MPs in the South West and
:56:31. > :56:35.people such as myself, we should be getting on the phone, writing the
:56:36. > :56:38.letters, banging in the e`m`ils and saying get out there and do some
:56:39. > :56:42.work. Somebody will have to take on the supermarkets. If it isn't the
:56:43. > :56:47.supermarket Tzar s I don't know where we will go. We will end up
:56:48. > :56:52.without a cattle industry. That would be a disaster. Just when maybe
:56:53. > :56:55.there is a window with the Chinese opening up opportunities in the long
:56:56. > :56:59.early`morning term which cotld give a new market to our farmers. We are
:57:00. > :57:08.already exporting and doing well. We have got over the crisis of foot and
:57:09. > :57:14.mouth and BSE. Our beef is luch sought after. But I believe now that
:57:15. > :57:19.it is getting, farmers are feeling the pinch. Cattle farm tersd. It is
:57:20. > :57:24.big business in the South Wdst. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next
:57:25. > :57:31.week or so an application is meat to the ` made to the grocery
:57:32. > :57:35.adjudicator. We heard one f`rmer asking for intervention in setting
:57:36. > :57:39.prices, you would have to h`ve a party to the left of Labour to do
:57:40. > :57:46.that. I don't think that is on the agenda. But what is on the `genda is
:57:47. > :57:52.a regime of looking at the way supermarjts `` sewer markets are ``
:57:53. > :57:56.supermarkets are Spiesing the farmers `` ` squeezing the farmers.
:57:57. > :57:59.People are struggling the p`y the price. The margin has actually grown
:58:00. > :58:06.on profit. We have to move on. Now our regular round`up
:58:07. > :58:09.of the political week in thd The father
:58:10. > :58:12.of the Devon schoolgirl Gendtte Tate ` who's been missing for allost 40
:58:13. > :58:27.years ` has said he welcomes It won't bring closure. People talk
:58:28. > :58:32.about this closure thing. It doesn't happen. You have still got ht in
:58:33. > :58:46.your mind and you still wonder what would have happened. If it Hant have
:58:47. > :58:53.occurred. `` hadn't occurred. Everyone is disappointed. Pdople
:58:54. > :58:56.peel `` people feel bad. Victims of modern day slavery have warned it is
:58:57. > :59:00.a problem in the South West. They look for weak and vulnerabld people
:59:01. > :59:03.so they can manipulate them and get them into debt and once you're in
:59:04. > :59:08.debt they have got you and xou can't, it is a struggle to get out
:59:09. > :59:10.of it. New legislation to t`ckle the problem was unveiled at Wednesday
:59:11. > :59:24.state opening of Parliament. I think the last anti`slavery
:59:25. > :59:32.legislation was in the 19th century. It seems overdue. Yes, we h`d a gang
:59:33. > :59:35.masters act, because of the instances of police talking of
:59:36. > :59:40.problems we had in Cornwall. People don't understand the appallhng
:59:41. > :59:44.conditions in which people live in this country, not over seas, here in
:59:45. > :59:49.Cornwall and Devon and we h`ve got to take action. I fully support any
:59:50. > :59:54.action. I hope it goes far dnough. I think we are all at one on that
:59:55. > :00:03.That is why we have introduced the bill. It is at the behest of Liberal
:00:04. > :00:07.Democrats. A crucial thing, Anthony Steen said it is victim centred and
:00:08. > :00:10.they need to be confident they can give evidence. If you think you re
:00:11. > :00:14.going to be deported if you walk into a police station and s`y you're
:00:15. > :00:18.being kept in appalling conditions, you're not going to walk in. You
:00:19. > :00:24.have to protect the victims. It is good you minuted Anthony he has done
:00:25. > :00:36.great work on this. Thank you. That is the Sunday Politics in
:00:37. > :00:40.Is enough being done to tackle extremism in schools?
:00:41. > :00:49.Will Mr Cameron stopped Mr Junker, will make
:00:50. > :01:11.we are joined by the founder of the Quilliam Association. If you read
:01:12. > :01:15.the Sunday Telegraph this morning, there is a real problem. If you read
:01:16. > :01:30.the Observer, there is not much of a problem. What is the situation in
:01:31. > :01:37.your view in Birmingham? Allegations are seen to be -- if music was not
:01:38. > :01:41.being taught as it should be. Instead of the rating the national
:01:42. > :01:45.holidays here during the Christmas period, children were sent off
:01:46. > :01:51.instead on religious pilgrimage to Mecca, then I think something is
:01:52. > :02:00.going on. From my knowledge, I know about some of the strategies to
:02:01. > :02:05.influence. These strategies are known as gradualism. The idea, like
:02:06. > :02:11.the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is to join the institutions of society
:02:12. > :02:18.and influence from within -- from within. It is a gradual approach to
:02:19. > :02:24.Islamicisation society. We have seen that happening in other areas, such
:02:25. > :02:29.as the decision by the Law Society to call it shy and issue it out as
:02:30. > :02:32.guidance for solicitors. They are saying this means that women inherit
:02:33. > :02:41.half of what men saying this means that women inherit
:02:42. > :02:41.and adopted children do not get any inheritance. Apostates do not get
:02:42. > :02:46.any inheritance. These are guidelines being issued by the Law
:02:47. > :02:53.Society by Islamic. It is a medieval take on Islam. That is what is
:02:54. > :02:59.meant. We see the same names popping up again and again in different
:03:00. > :03:03.situations in Birmingham. Is it a planned infiltration? In my
:03:04. > :03:06.profession of you and planned infiltration? In my
:03:07. > :03:08.profession of you having spent 3 years on the leadership of an
:03:09. > :03:21.Islamist organisation, having been involved
:03:22. > :03:21.Islamist organisation, having been and setting up schools, I am very
:03:22. > :03:22.Islamist organisation, having been certain is a deliberate plan to
:03:23. > :03:27.influence the students of this country with a medieval
:03:28. > :03:30.interpretation of my own faith to bring about a medieval, conservative
:03:31. > :03:35.view, and enforce things like segregation on boys and girls within
:03:36. > :03:42.our public institutions. With these things be acceptable if they were
:03:43. > :03:47.explicitly they schools? If they were state. We had state Anglican
:03:48. > :03:53.faith schools. We have state Catholic faith schools as well.
:03:54. > :03:58.Would it be acceptable if these were state Islamic schools? That is a
:03:59. > :04:03.policy question. I am not generally in favour. I would believe in this
:04:04. > :04:11.establishment. I am not a fan of faith schools. I do think the
:04:12. > :04:15.solution is to ban them. I do think these schools should start working
:04:16. > :04:19.out with an engaging with the wider communities and not being insular
:04:20. > :04:23.and looking inwards. It is very important. The Ofsted report is
:04:24. > :04:29.coming out tomorrow. We have already had a taste about what it is saying
:04:30. > :04:34.about some of the schools. Is it a serious problem? It is a very
:04:35. > :04:41.serious problem. It comes from the segregation of children into
:04:42. > :04:44.intensely populated areas where everyone is Muslim virtually. You
:04:45. > :04:50.have to have a system of spreading children between schools. It very
:04:51. > :04:54.often happens, even with a secular school like this. Nearby Catholic or
:04:55. > :04:57.Church of England schools become like-for-like schools and that
:04:58. > :05:02.leaves the rest of the state schools to become all of one faith. I think
:05:03. > :05:05.all of the parties are being quite hypocritical about the profound
:05:06. > :05:11.problem of continuing to have faith schools. You have Orthodox Jewish
:05:12. > :05:14.schools with extraordinary dogma being taught. Indeed very strict
:05:15. > :05:20.Catholic schools with amazing dogma being taught. To somehow only get
:05:21. > :05:24.worried when it is Islamic, when it is Muslim schools, becomes a
:05:25. > :05:28.problem. You have to look at the whole issue and said the state
:05:29. > :05:41.should simply withdraw from the business of faith education. Like
:05:42. > :05:47.France? Yes, a secular school. The overall government policy is to take
:05:48. > :05:52.power away. The dilemma with that is that it comes with dangers. Some
:05:53. > :05:55.schools will be incompetent and some schools will be more than
:05:56. > :05:59.incompetent, they will be maligned in some respects. The one bit of
:06:00. > :06:05.this policy which has never been entirely squared is how do you
:06:06. > :06:08.devolve and retain a basic minimum of educational standards and
:06:09. > :06:13.behavioural standards while doing it? There is an even deeper quandary
:06:14. > :06:16.for Britain. We have prided ourselves on allowing radical views
:06:17. > :06:22.that stop short of violence. We took on Karl Marx and the rest of Europe
:06:23. > :06:25.would not have him. The rest of Europe could not believe how
:06:26. > :06:29.tolerably well of radical preachers in the 1990s. Do we stick with that
:06:30. > :06:37.view? The risks were greater than they were 100 years ago. We do
:06:38. > :06:42.expect, whatever peoples faith, that our children, at the expense of the
:06:43. > :06:46.taxpayer, are educated, not instructed, not indoctrinated,
:06:47. > :06:50.educated. We do expect that and also that boys and girls are treated
:06:51. > :06:54.equally. One of the things the board in Birmingham will be looking at
:06:55. > :06:58.which has Andrew Mitchell on it the former development Secretary,
:06:59. > :07:02.because he is a Birmingham MP full Sutton, they are really concerned
:07:03. > :07:07.about whether the girls are being treated as second-class citizens.
:07:08. > :07:12.There has been a lot of work done on empowerment of girls. Shirley
:07:13. > :07:16.Williams made the point that what Michael Gove has done by creating
:07:17. > :07:19.free schools and academies is undermined the work of local
:07:20. > :07:26.education authorities. They think they are traditional bodies which
:07:27. > :07:32.are not open to reform. One school in Birmingham which is accused of
:07:33. > :07:38.being in trouble is a local education school. They cannot have
:07:39. > :07:42.the other side. Under Michael Gove, they are answerable to the Secretary
:07:43. > :07:48.of State. It is down to Ofsted. Ofsted is giving the schools, not
:07:49. > :07:51.that long ago, outstanding marks. There are big questions about the
:07:52. > :07:55.oversight of schools. Tristan Hunt was trying to answer that point By
:07:56. > :08:03.tapping it cannot all have gone pear shaped in two years. How do you
:08:04. > :08:10.think that will play out? -- it cannot have gone pear shaped. The
:08:11. > :08:14.story was broken in February. It will keep playing out. The report
:08:15. > :08:18.that was due out Ofsted is tomorrow or Monday. Then there is the other
:08:19. > :08:22.report that will look into wider questions, that will come out in
:08:23. > :08:32.July, I think. We are expecting two points. -- reports. We have to look
:08:33. > :08:37.at questions of Ofsted and other institutions in our society, even
:08:38. > :08:44.government departments, where idea of taxing non-violent extremism
:08:45. > :08:49.became a too boot in this country. -- a taboo. They must be rebuffed
:08:50. > :08:55.the challenge, as we would expect racism to be challenged. In the
:08:56. > :09:01.argument between Michael Gove and Theresa May, where do you side? They
:09:02. > :09:05.should be challenged openly and robust leap by civilian society It
:09:06. > :09:15.was settled by the Prime Minister and is government policy. I had a
:09:16. > :09:23.hand in advising or consulting. I think Fiona Cunningham was forced to
:09:24. > :09:36.resign because what she did violates official government policy. It just
:09:37. > :09:47.has not been implemented yet. Will Mr Cameron succeed with Juncke?
:09:48. > :09:50.You'll agree he have to decide whether he will spirit at stopping
:09:51. > :09:55.him or accepting him as commission president and ask in return for a
:09:56. > :09:58.massive commission portfolio for Britain, something like the internal
:09:59. > :10:05.market, which they missed out on last time. It is a diplomatic
:10:06. > :10:10.decision he have to make. It is too late for that he is into deep. If he
:10:11. > :10:19.takes over the job, Cameron is left with egg on its face. From the
:10:20. > :10:22.beginning, he did not have his voice with the weight of the British
:10:23. > :10:29.Conservative Party, with ankle and Arkle, the rest of them. He is
:10:30. > :10:36.reaping -- Angela Merkel, the rest of them. He is reaping that reward.
:10:37. > :10:43.There is a lot of support within Europe. In Germany, there was a lot
:10:44. > :10:49.of opposition to David Cameron getting his way. I know him from
:10:50. > :10:53.Brussels. He is entertaining, you go to dinner with him and he smokes and
:10:54. > :10:58.drinks. He is entertaining but he is the most awful person you could
:10:59. > :11:01.think of having trying to sort of symbolise a new European Union. I
:11:02. > :11:05.remember I was there join the Luxembourg presidency in 2005 when
:11:06. > :11:08.the voters in France and the Netherlands voted no to the European
:11:09. > :11:13.constitution, what was his response to that? Let's carry on with the
:11:14. > :11:21.ratification process of this treaty that has been comprehensively
:11:22. > :11:25.rejected by voters. He did not say the final bit of that sentence. You
:11:26. > :11:29.can see why Eurosceptics want him. He has blown a raspy at all the
:11:30. > :11:32.people who have protested at the elections with the way the European
:11:33. > :11:55.Union is going. -- blown a Rasberry. This is your most popular... What
:11:56. > :12:07.has come in most recently is doing really well. This is yours. There we
:12:08. > :12:11.go. Cheers! By our people so cynical? They always go for a drink
:12:12. > :12:21.at 11am and they pull their own pipes. I see them every day. -- pts.
:12:22. > :12:26.Is there anything Mr Clegg can do is to mark the idea is to define
:12:27. > :12:30.clearly a liberal brand, or at least I hope it is. It is not good enough
:12:31. > :12:34.for us to say the Liberal Democrats challenge the Tories on this, on the
:12:35. > :12:38.fairer society, and challenge the Labour Party on a strong economy. We
:12:39. > :12:44.need to define what we stand for. That is what I call a liberal brand,
:12:45. > :12:48.assertive liberalism. I have been there myself and I think that is
:12:49. > :12:56.what he will be speaking about. Standing up for liberal values, to
:12:57. > :12:59.finding -- defining what they are. Disestablishment in getting younger
:13:00. > :13:04.people re-engage with politics. The overwhelming number are actually
:13:05. > :13:09.liberal. We only have about 20 seconds. I suggest to you it is too
:13:10. > :13:16.late. Sign up with the one principle on which he stood is Europe. -- the
:13:17. > :13:24.one principle on which he stood if Europe. That is why he has been
:13:25. > :13:28.doing so badly. He cannot get out of the hole he is in. If you fight
:13:29. > :13:33.three general elections to the left of Labour and on the third when you
:13:34. > :13:51.are in coalition with the Tories, you have got a problem. I will be
:13:52. > :14:19.back next week. Remember if it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.
:14:20. > :14:21.What's the hardest thing about being a foster parent?
:14:22. > :14:24.You're constantly trying to build the elusive trust.
:14:25. > :14:27.It's like a big old question mark in your heart.
:14:28. > :14:30.I just try and do the best I can for them while they're with me
:14:31. > :14:33.Join Lorraine Pascale as she looks at stories of fostering...
:14:34. > :14:36.I wasn't happy at all, but now I am. ..including her own.
:14:37. > :14:39.Nice to know finally where I came to the world.