:00:09. > :00:12.Good morning from Manchester, where the Labour Party are gathering
:00:13. > :00:14.for their annual conference as British politics `djusts to what
:00:15. > :00:53.the rest of the UK. in Scotland might mean for
:00:54. > :00:59.Scotland's decision to vote 'no means more powers heading norph
:01:00. > :01:06.But what about Home Rule for England?
:01:07. > :01:11.Independence for Scotland has been his life's work. Alex Salmond tells
:01:12. > :01:16.us why he is stepping `own afper losing Thursday's vote. And wa've
:01:17. > :01:28.In the South West. people who want to be Labour
:01:29. > :01:30.The Conservatives who think Cameron has promised the Scots too luch
:01:31. > :01:32.And councils are told to provide more official sites for gypsies
:01:33. > :01:45.powers and more freedom to spand. But what is the next devolution step
:01:46. > :01:48.for the capital? With me, the best and brightest political panel in the
:01:49. > :01:53.business, at least that is what they pay me to say every week. Nick Watt,
:01:54. > :01:58.Helen Lewis and, this week, we have done some devolution ourselves to
:01:59. > :02:04.other areas, and we have Sam Coates from the times. The union survived,
:02:05. > :02:07.but only at the cost of more powers for the Scottish parliament and
:02:08. > :02:08.enshrining the formula that gives Scotland a privileged position when
:02:09. > :02:17.it comes Scotland a privileged position when
:02:18. > :02:21.of in arms. The Scottish question has been answered for now. Suddenly,
:02:22. > :02:31.the English question takes centre stage, doesn't it? Absolutely. It
:02:32. > :02:35.has a grubby feel, when that vow was put to the Scottish people, that
:02:36. > :02:41.they hoped would swing the vote there was nothing about English only
:02:42. > :02:45.votes. It was unconditional? The Tory proposal did talk very core
:02:46. > :02:48.justly about looking at the proposals by a former clerk of the
:02:49. > :02:52.House of Commons that looked at this issue. That was very cautious. -
:02:53. > :04:52.cautiously. issue. That was very cautious. -
:04:53. > :04:57.English laws? Ed Miliband this morning was saying how London MPs
:04:58. > :05:00.get to vote on London transport and English MPs don't outside of London
:05:01. > :05:05.and it is confusing, but Labour is in a difficult position. They were
:05:06. > :05:09.before the Prime Minister made his announcement. The yes side triumphed
:05:10. > :05:13.in Glasgow, the largest city in Scotland, a Labour heartland, and
:05:14. > :05:16.the Prime Minister is saying that if Labour don't agree to this by the
:05:17. > :05:20.time of the general election, he is handing a gift to the SNP, that that
:05:21. > :05:26.would be the party that the natural Labour voters would vote for to see
:05:27. > :05:29.off the plan. It's not just Tory backbenchers. There are Labour
:05:30. > :05:31.backbenchers saying there should be in which bodes for English laws
:05:32. > :05:38.Even people in the Shadow Cabinet think it is right. The cases
:05:39. > :05:41.unarguable. If you say her chewing a partisan way, you can't sell it to
:05:42. > :05:46.the country. Ed Miliband is on course to have a majority of about
:05:47. > :05:51.20, and you take the 40 English MPs, and he hasn't got it. This is a
:05:52. > :05:56.coalition government where the Conservatives haven't got really to
:05:57. > :05:59.be in charge, they have put in sweeping laws. Labour should
:06:00. > :06:05.probably take the bullet on this one. Let's leave it for the moment.
:06:06. > :06:10.But don't go away. As they struggle to keep the United Kingdom in one
:06:11. > :06:13.piece, David Cameron, Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg promised to keep
:06:14. > :06:15.something called the Barnett Formula.
:06:16. > :06:18.It wasn't invented in Barnet, but by man called Joel Barnett.
:06:19. > :06:21.And it's how the UK government decides how much
:06:22. > :06:23.public money to spend in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
:06:24. > :06:25.It's controversial, because it's led to public spending
:06:26. > :06:27.being typically 20% higher in Scotland than in England.
:06:28. > :06:29.Well, some English MPs aren't happy about that.
:06:30. > :06:36.I'm joined now by the Tory MP Dominic Raab.
:06:37. > :06:44.Welcome to the Sunday Politics. How can the Prime Minister scrap the
:06:45. > :06:50.Barnett Formula when he has just about to keep it on the front page
:06:51. > :06:54.of a major Scottish newspaper? If we are going to see financial
:06:55. > :06:57.devolution to Scotland, more powers of tax and spend, it's impossible
:06:58. > :07:01.not to look at the impact on the wider union, and there have been
:07:02. > :07:04.promises made to the Scottish and we should do our best to deliver them,
:07:05. > :07:08.but there have been promises made to the English, Welsh and Northern
:07:09. > :07:11.Irish. If you look at the Barnett Formula which allocates revenue
:07:12. > :07:16.across the UK, it is massively prejudicial to those other parts. We
:07:17. > :07:20.have double the number of ambulance staff and nurses compared to
:07:21. > :07:23.England. The regional breakdown is more stark with double the amount
:07:24. > :07:28.spent on social housing in Scotland than in Yorkshire and the North West
:07:29. > :07:32.and the Midlands. The Welsh do very poorly on social services for the
:07:33. > :07:36.elderly. What are we saying? That they need our children, patients and
:07:37. > :07:42.the elderly are worth less than the Scots? That's not the way to have a
:07:43. > :07:46.sustainable solution. I understand the distribution impact of the
:07:47. > :07:50.Barnett Formula, but Westminster politicians are already held in
:07:51. > :07:57.contempt by a lot of people and to rat on such a public pledge would
:07:58. > :08:00.confirm their worst fears. Your leader would have secured the union
:08:01. > :08:05.on a false prospectus. First of all, it's clear from the Ashcroft
:08:06. > :08:08.poll that the offer made in the Scottish newspaper had zero effect
:08:09. > :08:11.and if anything was counter-productive to the overall
:08:12. > :08:16.result because two thirds of swing voters in the last few days voted
:08:17. > :08:20.for independence. But we can't keep proceeding without looking at the
:08:21. > :08:24.promises made to the English. We said in the referendum that we would
:08:25. > :08:28.have English laws -- English votes on English issues. The Liberal
:08:29. > :08:31.Democrats, in their manifesto, pledged to scrap the Barnett
:08:32. > :08:37.Formula. We have to reconcile all of the promises to all parts of the UK,
:08:38. > :08:41.and Alex Salmond talks about a Westminster stitch up, but what he's
:08:42. > :08:45.trying to do is, with gross double standards, is in French stitch up in
:08:46. > :08:54.rapid time, which would be grossly unfair to the rest of the rest of UK
:08:55. > :08:56.-- is contrive stitch up. What is unfair about the current spending
:08:57. > :09:05.formula? The extra money Scotland gets from Barnet, is covered by the
:09:06. > :09:07.oil revenues it sends to London Scotland is only getting back on
:09:08. > :09:10.spending what it pays in tax. There is no analysis out there that
:09:11. > :09:18.suggests it is the same amount. Having voted to stay in the UK. Let
:09:19. > :09:24.me give you the figures. Last year revenues were 4.5 billion, and the
:09:25. > :09:31.Barnett Formula was worth 4.5 billion to Scotland. It is awash. A
:09:32. > :09:34.huge amount of British taxpayer investment has gone into extracting
:09:35. > :09:38.North Sea oil, and if we move to a more federal system, we would need
:09:39. > :09:40.to look at things like the allocation of resources, but the
:09:41. > :09:46.Barnett Formula has been lambasted as a national embarrassment and
:09:47. > :09:50.grossly unfair by its Labour Party architect, Lord Barnett. So what we
:09:51. > :09:55.need is to change this mechanism so it is based on need. The irony is,
:09:56. > :09:58.when the Scots allocate Avenue to the -- revenue to their local
:09:59. > :10:02.authorities, it's done on a needs basis, and what is good for Scotland
:10:03. > :10:07.must be good for the rest of Britain. One final question. The
:10:08. > :10:11.Prime Minister is now making his promise of more home rule for
:10:12. > :10:14.Scotland conditional on English votes for English laws. Why didn't
:10:15. > :10:18.he spell out the condition when he made his bow to the Scottish people?
:10:19. > :10:23.Why has this condition been tacked on by the Prime Minister? In the
:10:24. > :10:29.heat of the referendum debate lots of things were said, but the truth
:10:30. > :10:34.is that Parliament must also look at this and make its views known, and
:10:35. > :10:37.English MPs as well. You will find that conservative as well as a lot
:10:38. > :10:42.of Labour MPs would say, we cannot just rush through a deal that is
:10:43. > :10:47.unsustainable. It has to be good for all parts of Britain. Yes, we should
:10:48. > :10:49.deliver on our promises for more devolution to Scotland, but let s
:10:50. > :10:54.deliver on promises to be English, and Northern Irish. Why are they
:10:55. > :10:56.locked out of the debate? Let's leave it there. Thank you for
:10:57. > :10:58.joining us. The man responsible
:10:59. > :11:00.for taking Scottish nationalism from the political fringes to within
:11:01. > :11:02.touching distance of victory, Alex Salmond, has a flair for dramatic
:11:03. > :11:05.announcements, and he gave us another on Friday
:11:06. > :11:07.when he revealed he's to stand Friends and foes have paid tribute
:11:08. > :11:12.to his extraordinary career. In a moment I'll be speaking to
:11:13. > :11:14.Alex Salmond, but first here's Adam Fleming with
:11:15. > :11:37.the story of the vote that broke The BBC's HQ on the Clyde, the whole
:11:38. > :11:41.place converted into a studio for Scotland's big night. You know what
:11:42. > :11:44.you need for big events, big screens, and there are loads of them
:11:45. > :11:48.here. That one is three stories high, and this is the one Jeremy
:11:49. > :11:52.Vine uses for his graphics. The other thing that is massive is the
:11:53. > :11:57.turnout in the referendum, it is enormous. It was around 85% of the
:11:58. > :12:08.electorate, that is 4 million ballot papers. First to declare
:12:09. > :12:15.Clackmannanshire. No, 19,000. 1 ,000 and 36. The first Noel of the night,
:12:16. > :12:20.and there were plenty more. -- the first no vote. The better together
:12:21. > :12:25.campaigners were over the moon, like Jim Murphy, who had campaigned in
:12:26. > :12:28.100 different towns. I don't want to sound schmaltzy, but it makes you
:12:29. > :12:38.think more of Scotland. It makes you small tree. Yes, 194,779. Around
:12:39. > :12:43.five a.m., the Yes campaign applauded as they won Scotland's
:12:44. > :12:47.biggest city, Glasgow. Dundee went their way as well, but just for
:12:48. > :12:52.areas out of 32 opted for independence. How many copies have
:12:53. > :12:56.you had? This is my second cup of tea on the morning -- how many
:12:57. > :13:00.copies. He was enjoying the refreshments on offer, but the yes
:13:01. > :13:05.campaigners were not in a happy place. We are in the bowels of one
:13:06. > :13:10.of the parts of the British establishment that, I've got to say,
:13:11. > :13:15.has probably done its job in this referendum, because I think the BBC
:13:16. > :13:20.has been critical in shoring up the establishment and have supported the
:13:21. > :13:24.no campaign as best as they could. But there was no arguing with the
:13:25. > :13:32.numbers, and by sunrise, the BBC called it. Scotland has voted no in
:13:33. > :13:35.this referendum on independence The result, in Fife, has taken the no
:13:36. > :13:41.campaign over the line and the official result of this referendum
:13:42. > :13:47.is a no. There we go, on a screen three stories high, Scotland has
:13:48. > :13:51.said no to independence. As soon as the newsprint was driving north of
:13:52. > :13:54.the border, the focus shifted south as the Prime Minister pledged more
:13:55. > :13:58.devolution for Scotland but only if it happened everywhere else as well.
:13:59. > :14:02.Just as Scotland will vote separately in the Scottish
:14:03. > :14:06.Parliament on their issues of tax, spending on welfare, so to England,
:14:07. > :14:09.as well as Wales and Northern Ireland, should be able to vote on
:14:10. > :14:16.these issues, and all this must take place in tandem with and at the same
:14:17. > :14:21.pace as the settlement for Scotland. It began to dawn on us all that we
:14:22. > :14:28.might end up doing this again. See you for an English referendum soon?
:14:29. > :14:35.Northern Ireland. There could be another one in Scotland. But not
:14:36. > :14:39.next weekend? Give me a break. There was no break for Nick, because Alex
:14:40. > :14:46.Salmond came up with one last twist, his resignation was as leader, my
:14:47. > :14:53.time is nearly over. But the Scotland, the campaign continues,
:14:54. > :14:56.and the dream shall never die. So, the referendum settled, the
:14:57. > :15:02.Constitution in flux, and a leader gone. All in a night work.
:15:03. > :15:09.Alex Salmond is to stand down as First Minister of Scotland. He shows
:15:10. > :15:12.no signs of going quietly. Last night, I spoke to the SNP leader in
:15:13. > :15:19.Aberdeen and began by asking him if it was always his intention to
:15:20. > :15:22.resign if he lost the referendum. I certainly have thought about it
:15:23. > :15:27.Andrew. But for most of the referendum campaign I thought we
:15:28. > :15:32.were going to win. So, I was... Yeah, maybe a few months back I
:15:33. > :15:37.considered it. But I only finally made up my mind on Friday lunch
:15:38. > :15:46.time. Did you agonise over the decision to stand down? I'm not
:15:47. > :15:53.really an agonising person. When you get beaten in a referendum, you have
:15:54. > :15:58.to consider standing down as a real possibility. Taking responsibility
:15:59. > :16:02.and politics has gone out of fashion but there is an aspect, if you need
:16:03. > :16:06.a campaign, and I was the leader of the Yes Campaign, and you don't win,
:16:07. > :16:10.you have to contemplate if you are the best person to lead future
:16:11. > :16:15.political campaigns. In my judgement, it was time for the SNP
:16:16. > :16:19.and the broader yes movement, the National movement of Scotland, they
:16:20. > :16:24.would benefit from new leadership. In your heart of hearts, through the
:16:25. > :16:30.campaign, as referendum on day approached, you did think you were
:16:31. > :16:36.going to win? Yes, I did. I thought for most of the last month of the
:16:37. > :16:41.campaign, we were in with a real chance. In the last week I thought
:16:42. > :16:46.we had pulled ahead. I thought the decisive aspect wasn't so much the
:16:47. > :16:49.fear mongering, the scaremongering, the kitchen sink being thrown at
:16:50. > :16:54.Scotland by orchestration from Downing Street, I thought the real
:16:55. > :16:58.thing was the pledge, the vow, the offer of something else. A lot of
:16:59. > :17:03.people that had been moving across to independence saw within that a
:17:04. > :17:07.reason to say, well, we can get something anyway without the
:17:08. > :17:13.perceived risks that were being festooned upon them. You were only
:17:14. > :17:20.five points away from your dream. You won Scotland's largest city
:17:21. > :17:25.There is now the prospect of more power. Why not stay and be an
:17:26. > :17:31.enhanced First Minister? Well, it is a good phrase. I'm not going away,
:17:32. > :17:35.though. I'm still going to be part of the political process. In
:17:36. > :17:39.Scotland, if people in Aberdeenshire wish to keep electing me, that is
:17:40. > :17:44.what I will do. But I don't have to be First Minister of Scotland,
:17:45. > :17:50.leader of the Yes Campaign, to see that achieved. The SNP is a strong
:17:51. > :17:54.and powerful leadership team. There are a number of people that would do
:17:55. > :17:59.a fantastic job as leader of the party and First Minister. I've been
:18:00. > :18:04.leader of the party for the last 24 years, I think it is time to give
:18:05. > :18:08.somebody else a shot. There are many able-bodied people that will do that
:18:09. > :18:14.well. -- many able people that will do that well. I'm still part of the
:18:15. > :18:19.national movement, arguing to take this forward. I think you are right,
:18:20. > :18:22.the question, one of the irony is developing so quickly after the
:18:23. > :18:25.referendum, it might be those that lost on Thursday end up as the
:18:26. > :18:32.political winners and those that won end up as the losers. When we met
:18:33. > :18:36.just for the vote, a couple of days before the vote, you said to me that
:18:37. > :18:43.there was very little you would change about the campaign strategy.
:18:44. > :18:47.Is that still your view? Yes. There are one or two things, like any
:18:48. > :18:53.campaign, there is no such thing as a pitcher campaign. I would refer
:18:54. > :18:57.not to dwell on such things. I will leave of my book, which will be
:18:58. > :19:01.called 100 Days, coming out before Christmas. Once you read that, I
:19:02. > :19:05.will probably reveal the things I would have changed. Basically,
:19:06. > :19:10.broadly, this was an extraordinary campaign. Not just a political
:19:11. > :19:14.campaign, but a campaign involving the grassroots of Scotland in an
:19:15. > :19:18.energising, empowering way, the like of which in on of us have witnessed.
:19:19. > :19:23.It was an extraordinary phenomenon of grassroots campaigning, which
:19:24. > :19:30.carried the Yes Campaign so far almost to victory. If Rupert Murdoch
:19:31. > :19:40.put his Scottish Sun behind you would have that made the difference?
:19:41. > :19:46.If ifs and ands were pots and pans... Why did he not? I would not
:19:47. > :19:51.say that, you have form with him that I do not have. I'm not sure
:19:52. > :19:58.about that. I was very encouraged. The coverage, not in the other
:19:59. > :20:00.papers, The Times, which was extremely hostile to Scottish
:20:01. > :20:06.independence, but the coverage in the Scottish Sun was fair, balanced
:20:07. > :20:15.and we certainly got a very fair kick of the ball. In newspapers I
:20:16. > :20:18.would settle for no editorial line and just balanced coverage. We
:20:19. > :20:23.certainly got that from the Scottish Sun and that was an encouragement. I
:20:24. > :20:28.think you saw from his tweets, certainly in his heart he would have
:20:29. > :20:39.liked to have seen a move forward in Scotland and I like that. He said if
:20:40. > :20:44.you lost, that was it, referendum wise, for a generation, which he
:20:45. > :20:48.defined as about 20 years. Is that still your view? Yes, it is. It has
:20:49. > :20:53.always been my view. It's a personal view. There are always things that
:20:54. > :20:58.can change in politics. If the UK moved out of the European Union for
:20:59. > :21:01.example, that would be the sort of circumstance. Some people would
:21:02. > :21:07.argue with Westminster parties, and I'm actually not surprised that they
:21:08. > :21:11.are reneging on commitments, I am just surprised by the speed they are
:21:12. > :21:16.doing it. They seem to be totally shameless in these matters. You
:21:17. > :21:21.don't think they will meet the vow? You don't think there will keep to
:21:22. > :21:23.their vow? They are not, for that essential reason you saw developing
:21:24. > :21:28.on Friday. The Prime Minister wants to link change in Scotland to change
:21:29. > :21:33.in England. He wants to do that because he has difficulty in
:21:34. > :21:37.carrying his backbenchers on this and they are under pressure from
:21:38. > :21:39.UKIP. The Labour leadership are frightened of any changes in England
:21:40. > :21:44.which leave them without a majority in the House of Commons on English
:21:45. > :21:49.matters. I would not call it an irresistible force and immovable
:21:50. > :21:54.object, one is resistible and one is movable. They are at loggerheads.
:21:55. > :21:57.The vow, I think, was something cooked up in desperation for the
:21:58. > :22:03.last few days of the campaign. I think everybody in Scotland now
:22:04. > :22:08.engines that. -- recognises that. It was the people that were persuaded
:22:09. > :22:14.to vote no that word tricked, effectively. They are the ones that
:22:15. > :22:18.are really angry. Ed Miliband and David Cameron, if they are watching
:22:19. > :22:24.this, I would be more worried about the anger of the no voters than the
:22:25. > :22:30.opinion of the Yes Vote on that matter. If independence is on the
:22:31. > :22:38.back burner for now, what would you advise your successor's strategy for
:22:39. > :22:46.the SNP to be? I would advise him or her not to listen to advice from
:22:47. > :22:51.their predecessor. A new leader brings forward a new strategy. I
:22:52. > :22:55.think this is, for the SNP, a very favourable political time. There
:22:56. > :23:00.have been 5000 new members joined since Thursday. That is about a 25%
:23:01. > :23:06.increase in the party membership in the space of a few days. More than
:23:07. > :23:16.that, I think this is an opportunity for the SNP. But my goal is the
:23:17. > :23:20.opportunity for Scotland. I would repeat I am not retiring from
:23:21. > :23:26.politics. I'm standing down as First Minister of Scotland. On Friday
:23:27. > :23:33.coming back to the north-east of Scotland, I passed through Dundee,
:23:34. > :23:36.which voted yes by a stud -- substantial margin. There was a line
:23:37. > :23:41.of a song I couldn't get out of my head, and old Jacobite song,
:23:42. > :23:49.rewritten by Robert Burns, the last line is, so, tremble falls wakes, in
:23:50. > :23:56.the midst of your glee, you've not seen the last of my bonnets and me.
:23:57. > :24:00.So you are staying a member of the Scottish Parliament, shall we see
:24:01. > :24:07.you again in the House of Commons? What does the future hold for you?
:24:08. > :24:12.Membership of Scottish Parliament is dependent on the good folk of
:24:13. > :24:15.Aberdeenshire east. If they choose to elect me, I will be delighted to
:24:16. > :24:20.serve. I've always loved being a constituency member of Parliament, I
:24:21. > :24:24.have known some front line politicians that regarded that as a
:24:25. > :24:31.chore. I'm not saying they didn t do it properly, I am sure they did But
:24:32. > :24:33.I love it. You get distilled wisdom from being a constituency member of
:24:34. > :24:37.Parliament that helps you keep your feet on the ground and have a good
:24:38. > :24:40.observation as to what matters to people. I have no difficulty with
:24:41. > :24:51.being a constituent member of Parliament. Can you promise me it
:24:52. > :25:01.will never be Lord Salmond? Yes Thanks for joining us. Great
:25:02. > :25:05.pleasure, thank you. Now, the independence referendum is over the
:25:06. > :25:09.next big electoral test is a general election. It is just over seven
:25:10. > :25:15.months away. In a moment I will be talking to Chuka Umunna, but what
:25:16. > :25:20.are the political views of the men and women fighting to win seats for
:25:21. > :25:22.the Labour Party? The Sunday Politics has commissioned an
:25:23. > :25:28.exclusive survey of the Parliamentary candidates.
:25:29. > :25:31.Six out of seven Labour candidates say that the level of public
:25:32. > :25:35.spending during their last period of office was about right. 40% of them
:25:36. > :25:40.want a Labour government to raise taxes to reduce the budget deficit.
:25:41. > :25:44.18% favour cutting spending. On immigration, just 15% think that the
:25:45. > :25:50.number coming to Britain is too high. Only 7% say we generous to
:25:51. > :25:53.immigrants. Three in ten candidates believe the party relationship with
:25:54. > :25:58.trade unions is not close enough. Not that we spoke to think it is too
:25:59. > :26:03.close. Or than half of the candidates say want to scrap the
:26:04. > :26:08.nuclear deterrent, Trident. Four in five want to nationalise the
:26:09. > :26:16.railways. If they are after a change of leader, Yvette Cooper was their
:26:17. > :26:22.preferred choice. Chuka Umunna came in fourth. And he joins me now for
:26:23. > :26:28.the Sunday interview. Why is Labour choosing so many
:26:29. > :26:32.left-wing candidates? I don't think I accept the characterisation of
:26:33. > :26:35.candidates being left wing. I don't think your viewers see politics in
:26:36. > :26:39.terms of what is left and right I think they see it in terms of what
:26:40. > :26:44.is right and wrong. Obviously, many of the things we have been talking
:26:45. > :26:47.about, how we ensure that the next generation can do better than the
:26:48. > :26:51.last, how we raise the wages of your viewers, who are currently working
:26:52. > :26:54.very hard but not making a wage they can live off, that is what they are
:26:55. > :26:59.talking about and that is what the public will judge them on. But they
:27:00. > :27:01.want to raise taxes, they don't want to cut public spending, they want to
:27:02. > :27:03.re-nationalise the railways, they don't think there is too much
:27:04. > :27:06.immigration, they don't think there is too much
:27:07. > :27:55.Trident. These are don't think there is too much
:27:56. > :28:01.not, it is their view. They are saying... You describe it... You
:28:02. > :28:04.described those positions as left wing positions. I am saying to you
:28:05. > :28:07.that I actually think a lot of those positions are
:28:08. > :29:31.that I actually think a lot of those their children. Too many people do
:29:32. > :29:35.not earn a wage they can live off. Too many people are worried about
:29:36. > :29:38.the change. We have to make sure we are giving people a stake in the
:29:39. > :29:42.future. That is a Labour thing, you want to call it old or new come I
:29:43. > :29:52.don't care. It's a choice between Labour and the Conservatives in
:29:53. > :29:55.terms of who runs the next government. That one of your
:29:56. > :29:57.candidate we spoke to things that the party's relationship with the
:29:58. > :30:02.unions is to close. 30% of them think it should be closer. You have
:30:03. > :30:07.spoken to 73 out of 400 candidates. Why should the others be any
:30:08. > :30:10.different? It's a fairly representative Sample. Many people
:30:11. > :30:14.working on this set are the member of the union, the National union of
:30:15. > :30:18.journalists. People that came here to this Conference would have been
:30:19. > :30:22.brought here by trade union members. Do you think the relationship should
:30:23. > :30:27.be closer? I think it is where it should be. It should not be closer?
:30:28. > :30:30.I think that trade unions help create wealth in our country. If you
:30:31. > :30:35.look at some other success stories we are in the north-west, GM
:30:36. > :30:40.Vauxhall is there because you have trade unions working in partnership
:30:41. > :30:44.with government and local employees to make sure we kept producing cars.
:30:45. > :30:49.I'm not asking if unions are good or bad, I'm asking if Labour should be
:30:50. > :30:57.closer. You are presupposing, by the tone of your question, that our
:30:58. > :31:01.relationship is a problem. Let's turn to the English question. Why do
:31:02. > :31:04.you need a constitutional conversation where you have to
:31:05. > :31:07.discuss whether English people voting on English matters is
:31:08. > :31:10.unfair? We want to give the regions and cities in England more voice,
:31:11. > :31:18.but let's get it into perspective, we have had a situation where the
:31:19. > :31:24.Scottish people, as desired buying rich people, have to remain part of
:31:25. > :31:28.the UK -- by English people. What is the answer to the question? I don't
:31:29. > :31:31.want to get to a situation where people have voted for solidarity
:31:32. > :31:36.where you have a prime ministers talking about dividing up the UK
:31:37. > :31:40.Parliament. Let me put this point you. Most Scottish voters think it
:31:41. > :31:44.is unfair that Scottish MPs get to vote on English matters. That comes
:31:45. > :31:50.out in Scottish polls. Why don't you see it as unfair? If the Scots see
:31:51. > :31:54.it as unfair, why don't you? This is an age-old conundrum that has been
:31:55. > :31:57.around for 100 years and it's not so simple. You're talking about making
:31:58. > :32:02.a fundamental change to the British constitution on a whim. It's not
:32:03. > :32:09.just an issue, in respect of Scottish MPs. As a London MP, I can
:32:10. > :32:13.vote on matters relating to the transport of England and transport
:32:14. > :32:16.is a devolved matter in London. In Wales, there are a number of
:32:17. > :32:20.competencies that Welsh MPs can vote on and they've been devolved to
:32:21. > :32:24.them. So with all of these different votes, you will exclude different
:32:25. > :32:27.MPs? I think the solution is not necessarily to obsess about what is
:32:28. > :32:31.happening between MPs in Westminster. That turns people
:32:32. > :32:35.politics. We need to devolve more. I think we should be giving the cities
:32:36. > :32:40.and regions of England more autonomy in the way that we are doing in
:32:41. > :32:43.Scotland, but I've got to say, Andrew, it's dishonourable and in
:32:44. > :32:48.bad faith for the Prime Minister to now seek to link what he agreed
:32:49. > :32:53.before the referendum to this issue of English votes for English MPs.
:32:54. > :32:56.That is totally dishonourable and in bad faith. You have promised to
:32:57. > :33:00.devolve more tax powers to Scotland. What would they be? This is being
:33:01. > :33:05.decided at the moment. I cannot give you the exact detail of what the tax
:33:06. > :33:08.powers would be. Could you give us a rough idea? There is a White Paper
:33:09. > :33:15.being produced before November and there will be draft legislation put
:33:16. > :33:18.forward in January. Your leader has vowed that this will happen. And you
:33:19. > :33:22.haven't got a policy? You can't tell us what the tax powers will be? I
:33:23. > :33:26.can't tell you on this programme right now. But we have accepted the
:33:27. > :33:31.principle on further devolution on tax, spending on welfare and we will
:33:32. > :33:33.have further details in due course. Your leader promised to maintain the
:33:34. > :33:39.Barnett Formula for the foreseeable future. Why is that fair when it
:33:40. > :33:43.enshrines more per capita spending for Scotland than it does for Wales,
:33:44. > :33:47.which is poorer, and more than many of the poorer regions in England
:33:48. > :33:52.get? Why is that fair? We have said that in terms of looking at go -
:33:53. > :33:54.local government spending playing out in this Parliament, we have
:33:55. > :33:58.looked at what the government has done which is having already
:33:59. > :34:02.deprived communities having money taken away from them and wealthier
:34:03. > :34:04.communities are getting more. We accept that the Barnett Formula has
:34:05. > :34:06.worked well. How has ip accept that the Barnett Formula has
:34:07. > :34:09.worked well. How has it works accept that the Barnett Formula has
:34:10. > :34:12.worked well. How has ip works well? There is a cross parliamentary
:34:13. > :34:15.consensus as they don't know shat to do about it. Why has ip works well,
:34:16. > :34:22.do about it. Why has it works well, when Wales, clearly loses out? I'm
:34:23. > :34:23.not sure by I accept that when you look at overall underspend --
:34:24. > :34:24.government spending. It look at overall underspend --
:34:25. > :34:31.government spending. Ip is per capita spending in Scotland, shich
:34:32. > :34:34.is way ahead of per capita spanding in Wales, but per capita incomes in
:34:35. > :34:40.Scotland are way ahead of Walas. Why is that fair Labour politician? We
:34:41. > :34:44.have said we want to have mora equitable distribution. You haven't,
:34:45. > :34:47.you have said you will keep the Barnett Formula. I'm not sure
:34:48. > :34:52.necessarily punishing Scotlan` is the way to go. The way that this
:34:53. > :34:56.debate is going, what message does it send to the Scottish peopla? I
:34:57. > :35:00.want to be clear, I am delighped with the result we have got. Phe
:35:01. > :35:04.unity and solidarity where maintaining across the nations of
:35:05. > :35:07.the United Kingdom. All of this separatist talk, setting up
:35:08. > :35:09.different nations of the UK acainst each other goes complepely
:35:10. > :35:11.different nations of the UK acainst each other goes completely against
:35:12. > :35:13.what we've all been campaigning for over the last two years, and se
:35:14. > :35:16.over the last two years, and we shouldn't have any truck with it.
:35:17. > :35:21.Coming onto the announcement on the minimum wage, you would increase it
:35:22. > :35:25.by ?1 50 to take it to ? , which would be over five years Thap is
:35:26. > :35:31.all you are going to do over bive years. Have you worked out how much
:35:32. > :35:38.of this increase will be clawad back in taxation and fewer benefits? Work
:35:39. > :35:44.has been done on it. How much? I can't give you an exact figura. The
:35:45. > :35:48.policy pays for itself. The way we have looked at this, we looke` at
:35:49. > :35:51.the government figures, and ib people are earning more, they would
:35:52. > :35:54.therefore be paying more in income tax and they will be receivinc less
:35:55. > :35:58.tax and they will be receiving less in benefit and will pay out lass in
:35:59. > :36:02.tax credits, so we are confidant that this will pay for itself. I'm
:36:03. > :36:07.not asking about the pavement, I'm asking what it means for low paid
:36:08. > :36:11.workers will stop they will gat an extra 30p per hour -- about the
:36:12. > :36:16.payment. How much of the 30p po they get to keep? In terms of what they
:36:17. > :36:21.get in the first instance, somebody on the minimum wage now, with our
:36:22. > :36:25.proposal, would get in the region of ?3000 a year more than they are at
:36:26. > :36:34.the moment. That is before tax and benefits. How much do they keap? I
:36:35. > :36:37.cannot give you an exact figure. Why don't you give me an exact figure if
:36:38. > :36:40.you've done the modelling? We are talking about some of the lowest
:36:41. > :36:43.paid people in the country, and I would suggest to you that going down
:36:44. > :36:50.this route, they would face a marginal rate of tax of 0 or 60%
:36:51. > :36:54.and they will not keep most ob this increase you are talking aboup. I
:36:55. > :36:57.don't accept your figures. Bup you haven't got any of your own. I just
:36:58. > :36:59.don't have any in my haad haven't got any of your own. I just
:37:00. > :37:04.don't have any in my head I can give you right now. Don't you think out
:37:05. > :37:07.policies before you announce phem? Of course we think our policias
:37:08. > :37:08.before we announce them but wa are confident people have more in their
:37:09. > :37:09.pocket and will be better off confident people have more in their
:37:10. > :37:12.pocket and will be betper off with pocket and will be better off with
:37:13. > :37:14.the changes proposed, and we are also seeking to incentivise
:37:15. > :37:19.employers to pay a living waga as well. At the end of the day, as I
:37:20. > :37:23.said, the economy is recovering, great, but we know, at the moment,
:37:24. > :37:24.it's still not delivering for a huge number of your viewers and we're
:37:25. > :37:28.number of your viewers and we?re determined to do something about it.
:37:29. > :37:32.The status quo is not an option. And even joining me. Twice in thrae
:37:33. > :37:35.days. You can't have too much of a good thing. I am mad. He said that,
:37:36. > :37:37.not me. It's just gone 11.35, you're
:37:38. > :37:40.watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers in Scopland
:37:41. > :37:43.who leave us now for Coming up here in twenty minupes,
:37:44. > :37:48.we'll be joined by John Prescott to talk about the challenge facing
:37:49. > :37:50.Labour as their conference starts First though,
:37:51. > :38:02.the Sunday Politics where you are. Hello, I'm Lucie Fisher,
:38:03. > :38:04.coming up on the Sunday Polhtics We'll look at the thorny issue
:38:05. > :38:09.of finding suitable sites I'm joined by the
:38:10. > :38:16.leader of Mebyon Kernow ` Councillor Dick Cole, and
:38:17. > :38:18.Conservative MP Sarah Newton. Welcome, both of you,
:38:19. > :38:20.to the programme. Let?s begin by looking
:38:21. > :38:22.at the implications for us Dick, you've spent
:38:23. > :38:27.your entire political life `rguing Here you are handing in
:38:28. > :38:33.a petition more than a decade ago. Like Alex Salmond,
:38:34. > :38:35.you've talked a lot about hdritage If Alex Salmond has failed to make
:38:36. > :39:00.the case for his nation, I was proud to produce a document to
:39:01. > :39:04.take the Downing Street, and it is a shame that the previous govdrnment
:39:05. > :39:12.refused to act upon it. Scotland voted no for independence, but they
:39:13. > :39:16.are still pushing for more powers. This encourages me that we should be
:39:17. > :39:22.pushing as well for more powers devolved to Cornwall. So yot do not
:39:23. > :39:27.want independence for Cornw`ll, but you want devolved powers. Does this
:39:28. > :39:31.make it more likely? All of the political parties are talking about
:39:32. > :39:36.the future of the UK, so let's have a respectful wide`ranging ddbate
:39:37. > :39:38.about the constituent parts of the UK, there are democracies and
:39:39. > :39:43.economies and how we're going to the future. Itasca is to encour`ge
:39:44. > :39:56.people to look at the option of a Cornish assembly. Where you hoping
:39:57. > :40:05.that this No vote would put the end to these discussions. This hs just
:40:06. > :40:09.the start, and I want to sed more of this. I am delighted that Scottish
:40:10. > :40:13.people decided to stay part of the union, but the job now... So you
:40:14. > :40:19.would be happy for a Cornish assembly? I do not think right now
:40:20. > :40:26.it is the right choice for Cornwall. I think what we should be
:40:27. > :40:30.doing is working with the powers, making the case for more powers to
:40:31. > :40:36.be devolved, and making this work. How can you make the case for more
:40:37. > :40:46.powers but not to a Cornish assembly? To the council and MPs.
:40:47. > :40:51.This is what we need to do `ll over England and the United Kingdom, the
:40:52. > :40:52.power back into people 's h`nds Let us stick with the Scottish
:40:53. > :40:53.Referendum. It's been focusing minds
:40:54. > :40:55.on how public money is spre`d out Some South West business le`ders
:40:56. > :41:00.and politicians have been ottraged by the Prime Minister's prolise to
:41:01. > :41:03.keep a formula which means people here get considerably less than
:41:04. > :41:13.those in Scotland. Welcome to the Cinderella rdgion.
:41:14. > :41:19.Bottlenecks are familiar sight on main roads in and out of thd
:41:20. > :41:22.south`west. The Scottish Referendum has highlighted some uncomfortable
:41:23. > :41:28.public spending gaps. Treastry figures show that Scots get ?10 000
:41:29. > :41:33.per head, whereas in the sotth`west we get around 8000 each. Th`t is
:41:34. > :41:40.nearly 2000 a year less. Business leaders say that this is sc`ndalous.
:41:41. > :41:48.They say that if we had a fdver share of the pot, this road would be
:41:49. > :41:52.a motorway by now. The investment, fear and proportionate investment,
:41:53. > :42:00.would have meant that the chty as big as Plymouth, it would not be
:42:01. > :42:06.struggling with a road that is not a motorway. That would not have
:42:07. > :42:11.happened. In Scotland they `re spending ?3 billion making ` dual
:42:12. > :42:19.carriageway, creating 5000 jobs In the south`west, business le`ders are
:42:20. > :42:23.still pleading for 300 millhon, to upgrade Road, generating 21,000
:42:24. > :42:30.jobs. Many people blame the Barnett formula. Barnett himself saxs it is
:42:31. > :42:36.Hawaii Scotland gets free prescriptions and student fdes. I am
:42:37. > :42:41.not proud of having my name attached to something that is no soul and a
:42:42. > :42:49.fearful stop `` and fear. Btt the three main party leaders made a
:42:50. > :42:52.promise, if they rejected independence, The Barnett formula
:42:53. > :42:59.would stay. Why did Mr Cameron and Mr Miller band make a promise to
:43:00. > :43:05.maintain The Barnett formul`? `` Ed Miliband. We are already well under
:43:06. > :43:10.in relation to the Scottish economy. That worries me. Cameron cotld be
:43:11. > :43:14.faced with an army of angry backbenchers. I think that we need
:43:15. > :43:18.to reflect on the implications of having The Barnett formula hn
:43:19. > :43:22.perpetuity. I do not think that would be to the advantage of us in
:43:23. > :43:29.the south`west. But does he have a get out clause? If you look at the
:43:30. > :43:35.small print, it may be guar`nteed, but only while that is needdd,
:43:36. > :43:38.whatever that means. It is time for our United Kingdom to come together
:43:39. > :43:46.and move forward. A vital p`rt of that will be a balanced settlement,
:43:47. > :43:49.30 people in Scotland and importantly, to everyone in England,
:43:50. > :43:56.Wales and Northern Ireland `s well. `` fear to people in Scotland. He
:43:57. > :44:00.has promised to shake up thd constitution. Giving the sotth`west
:44:01. > :44:03.more money for things like roads is one thing, but who should gdt the
:44:04. > :44:11.cash? The Cornish assembly, an English Parliament or our existing
:44:12. > :44:13.councils? One thing is for sure the can of worms has well and truly been
:44:14. > :44:22.opened. Indeed. And to discuss this we are
:44:23. > :44:27.joined by the UKIP chairman. Let us start with The Barnett formtla. Is
:44:28. > :44:32.it unfair for people down hdre that Scottish people get more money? Yes,
:44:33. > :44:35.it is ludicrous. Lord Barnett has made it absolutely clear th`t it
:44:36. > :44:39.should have been caught red of years ago. It was only put in place to
:44:40. > :44:44.last about three years. What should be done now? This promise h`s been
:44:45. > :44:50.made. It is interesting bec`use now I see there is a wriggle gohng on
:44:51. > :44:55.about what was the promise? The fundamental thing here is to get out
:44:56. > :45:00.of this absolutely dreadful campaign to try to keep Scotland in the
:45:01. > :45:05.union, Mr Cameron and his colleagues just threw something at it last week
:45:06. > :45:12.and they have opened more c`ns of worms. Clearly, the funding has got
:45:13. > :45:19.to be fairer. It is ridiculous that the south`west receives less than
:45:20. > :45:26.London. Do you continue to support The Barnett formula? One thhng we
:45:27. > :45:30.can all agree on, politicians must keep pledges. What upsets pdople is
:45:31. > :45:35.if politicians promise something and do not deliver. So what has been
:45:36. > :45:40.pledged must be delivered. Xou think he panicked? Was it a panic move? I
:45:41. > :45:46.am not second`guessing what was decided, but since the day H was
:45:47. > :45:51.elected, I decided to fight for the funding for Cornwall, and these gaps
:45:52. > :45:59.are not fearful stop if we honour the pledge, which is quite right,
:46:00. > :46:07.what happens for Cornwall? `` not fare. If the commitments were made
:46:08. > :46:14.for Scotland, they need to be made for England. We will the extra money
:46:15. > :46:19.come from? There has to be ` settlement across the whole of the
:46:20. > :46:24.UK, and that is what I will be fighting for as soon as we get back
:46:25. > :46:29.to Parliament, and I am surd MPs representing the rural areas of
:46:30. > :46:32.Britain, especially English counties, who historically have not
:46:33. > :46:39.been properly funded. The g`p has been closed. What would you think
:46:40. > :46:43.about The Barnett formula? Hf you had a Cornish assembly, do xou think
:46:44. > :46:49.in any way you would get thd same level of funding as Scotland? There
:46:50. > :46:53.needs to be needs `based funding for various areas. During the rdferendum
:46:54. > :46:56.debate, the Scottish Nation`lists were arguing that they were not
:46:57. > :47:00.being subsidised, they were generating that much financd into
:47:01. > :47:04.the Treasury because of the links to North Sea oil. So the debatd was
:47:05. > :47:09.very finely tuned, there were arguments on both sides. Wh`t
:47:10. > :47:16.argument could you make for Cornwall? It could be less loney
:47:17. > :47:21.that we get. That is the pohnt I was coming on to. The issue for us is
:47:22. > :47:27.the over centralised nature of the country in which we live. London and
:47:28. > :47:32.the south`east dominates, and takes most of the investment on the
:47:33. > :47:37.presentation `` takes most of the investment. On the presentation you
:47:38. > :47:41.were talking about transport. What about HS2? It serves London,
:47:42. > :47:44.ridiculous amount of money. We should be rebalancing the economy
:47:45. > :47:51.and demographic institutions of this country. Vince Cable said London is
:47:52. > :47:55.a great suction machine, sucking the life out of the rest of the country.
:47:56. > :48:03.That is true and we are subsidising them. You're nodding, is th`t
:48:04. > :48:08.because you support a Cornish assembly? No, but I agree whth what
:48:09. > :48:14.he is saying. The south`west receives a lower Barnett allocation
:48:15. > :48:19.than the rest of England. Wd are starved here, and HS2 sucks more
:48:20. > :48:26.economy into London from thd north, which does not help. In the last
:48:27. > :48:31.four years we fought very h`rd to get record levels into our transport
:48:32. > :48:42.infrastructure. We have been starved for decades. But we have so much.
:48:43. > :48:46.Let us look at the transport infrastructure issue. We have record
:48:47. > :48:49.labels of infrastructure in our roads and rail 's. Cornwall is
:48:50. > :48:57.definitely doing really well. But the point is the just ``
:48:58. > :49:02.disproportionate investment. Education, the NHS, this has to be
:49:03. > :49:07.tackled. Our children should have exactly the same as other children
:49:08. > :49:11.all across England. When will this happen? This is what my job is. As
:49:12. > :49:18.soon as we get back to Parlhament, we need to make the case. This is a
:49:19. > :49:24.great opportunity. David Caleron once a fair settlement for Dngland
:49:25. > :49:30.and Scotland. `` wants. Will be be a vote and when? Two there is a
:49:31. > :49:33.general election in May. But that will not necessarily cover this
:49:34. > :49:40.question, devolution, city `ssembly 's. What we will be doing is setting
:49:41. > :49:44.out exactly what is going to happen for this settlement. Making those
:49:45. > :49:52.proposals very clear over the weeks and months ahead. Is part of that is
:49:53. > :49:57.desire to have a difference in the controls of government, that will be
:49:58. > :50:02.welcome. The last ten Labour tried to do this, they were rejected. I am
:50:03. > :50:13.interested in improving the quality of people 's lives. UKIP wotld like
:50:14. > :50:17.an English Parliament, how would that work and what would it mean for
:50:18. > :50:21.the south`west? The most important thing, and we have to remember that
:50:22. > :50:27.what we have been fighting for for the last few weeks is to kedp the
:50:28. > :50:30.United Kingdom together, and we should not now, in a backlash,
:50:31. > :50:36.because of this mess, start splintering. We need fairness. We
:50:37. > :50:41.need English votes on English laws, but someone wise once said there is
:50:42. > :50:48.no question to which the answer is more politicians. If we start
:50:49. > :50:50.creating new layers of government and politicians with differdnt
:50:51. > :50:56.salaries and expenses, the people will be fed up of that. We have a
:50:57. > :51:00.parliament already, and movds to suggestions as to when we use the
:51:01. > :51:07.Parliament in Westminster, `nd this could be made fairer. Peopld are
:51:08. > :51:10.going to be fed up, extra l`yers of government we just do not nded. In
:51:11. > :51:23.Cornwall, we have a massive deficit. We do not have legislature that can
:51:24. > :51:27.change Wallace is. We have 023 councillors, in Somerset thdy have
:51:28. > :51:31.425, so we do not have the democracy we should be entitled to. I would
:51:32. > :51:37.like to take up a further point People talking about Westminster
:51:38. > :51:47.being an English Parliament three days a week, and a UK Parli`ment the
:51:48. > :51:52.other two days. In the paper the other day they were going to propose
:51:53. > :52:04.it was going to be a UK parliament Mondays and Fridays, and thd UK
:52:05. > :52:09.``... It is a very complicated argument, and they way to split it
:52:10. > :54:16.is an immensely complicated. It has been
:54:17. > :54:19.to court and moving travelldrs on. The problem is not going aw`y. We
:54:20. > :54:23.need to ensure there are safe places for them to stay when they `re
:54:24. > :54:27.travelling. And that they do not have to pool into car parks and fit
:54:28. > :54:37.all pitches, where the disrtpt the life around them. `` football
:54:38. > :54:45.pitches. The number of unauthorised sites are up by a quarter in
:54:46. > :54:49.Cornwall. The transit site was due to be here, but only last month the
:54:50. > :54:52.local planning committee refused to grant planning permission, leaving
:54:53. > :54:57.the local council with nowhdre official to direct gypsies `nd
:54:58. > :55:03.travellers to. The committed turned down the application, saying that it
:55:04. > :55:09.was unsustainable. It was too far from the town, and it would mean the
:55:10. > :55:12.loss of good farming land. There is the will to deliver transit sites
:55:13. > :55:18.because that is the best solution. Numerous areas in Cornwall get
:55:19. > :55:22.affected by unauthorised calpsites, and if we had an authorised one
:55:23. > :55:29.that would mitigate the problem is we are getting every year. `` the
:55:30. > :55:33.problems. Where there is a will there is usually away, but dven if
:55:34. > :55:35.councillors want to provide temporary, local opposition can
:55:36. > :55:50.often win out. Most people say that they should be
:55:51. > :55:54.able to go where they want to, but they do not want it where they live.
:55:55. > :55:59.This is a thorny problem th`t has been going on for all my life. I do
:56:00. > :56:03.think the best way to solve this is in the current range of polhcies,
:56:04. > :56:09.which give quite a lot of power to councils to move people on. We had
:56:10. > :56:13.travellers in Truro that have moved on. Sue the answer is to devolve
:56:14. > :56:21.powers to the council 's. Which is what we have done. Anything to do
:56:22. > :56:29.with shaping the local commtnity, houses built, I think these
:56:30. > :56:32.decisions are best made. Whdre communities can come togethdr and
:56:33. > :56:37.agree that this is a good place to put a transit site, there is
:56:38. > :56:41.financial support. There is already a grant. There is a ?60 million
:56:42. > :56:46.budget pot. All around the country there are far fewer unoffichal
:56:47. > :56:53.traveller sites now. It has been working around the country. The
:56:54. > :56:59.money is there. Why do we not have more of these sites? Is it just
:57:00. > :57:07.unpopular? No council wants to put sites where other people live. It is
:57:08. > :57:12.a difficult political issue. Over the last seven or eight years, we
:57:13. > :57:14.have delivered a high number of Gypsy pitches. Those our Prhvate
:57:15. > :57:25.pitches that have come forw`rd to the council, and the council has
:57:26. > :57:33.turned on them, then they h`ve gone through the official system.
:57:34. > :57:40.Travellers like to move and travel across boundaries. How can xou know
:57:41. > :57:44.there are enough `` ensure there are enough across each boundary? There
:57:45. > :57:54.are many contradictions going on as we speak. Cornwall has a target of
:57:55. > :57:57.how many it should be providing but it is quite contradictory. H think
:57:58. > :58:02.the big issue for a lot of local people is that the planning system
:58:03. > :58:07.is geared that it is possible to get a traveller site on land th`t would
:58:08. > :58:11.not otherwise be developed. As local politicians, you are faced with how
:58:12. > :58:15.can they have that in the fheld but my daughter cannot have a btngalow
:58:16. > :58:22.next to me in the field next door. These imbalances need to be
:58:23. > :58:28.addressed because it is not clear to a lot of people. Sadly, I h`ve to
:58:29. > :58:38.move on. Now, the regular round`up in 60 seconds.
:58:39. > :58:43.Reports that the nuclear power station being built in Somerset
:58:44. > :58:47.House been approved by the Duropean Commission. Unconfirmed but welcomed
:58:48. > :58:51.by the MP. We have got to grow up, tell Europe
:58:52. > :58:58.where to stick it and get into the job. Devon County Council threatened
:58:59. > :59:05.to close its rubbish tips to the people of Torbay. You should be able
:59:06. > :59:11.to take it wherever you want, regardless of where the centre is,
:59:12. > :59:16.whether it is across the border As the trial badger cull continues
:59:17. > :59:20.protesters are accused of h`rassing farmers. As soon as I turned the
:59:21. > :59:25.light on to go to bed or go to the sitting room, their torches come
:59:26. > :59:42.onto the Windows. The Plymotth University decision to spend 15 ,007
:59:43. > :59:51.Cheers was questioned. `` ?050, 00 on chair is. Let us look at these
:59:52. > :59:59.chairs. ?150,000. Is that good value for money. I think this is
:00:00. > :00:03.dreadfully sad. Lots of people in Cornwall after come to Plymouth
:00:04. > :00:09.University. Especially our nurses get trained here. It really saddens
:00:10. > :00:13.me about this reputational harm they are doing. They need to get their
:00:14. > :00:15.act together and focus on the students and serve their colmunity
:00:16. > :00:22.and stop making ridiculous decisions. Should it be possible to
:00:23. > :00:30.spend that sort of money on chairs? Should this not be stopped? I think
:00:31. > :00:34.it a massive `` it is a massive own goal. I do not think they even look
:00:35. > :00:41.particularly pretty. I have been working with my local community in a
:00:42. > :00:50.village hall, and we purchased 00 chairs for a hundred quid. @nd they
:00:51. > :00:51.are perfect. That is the end of Sunday Politics. Now, back to
:00:52. > :00:58.Andrew. Enjoy the rest the Conservative mayor's policy. No
:00:59. > :01:06.more time I'm afraid. Andrew, back to you.
:01:07. > :01:08.Welcome back the to Labour conference, where we're joined
:01:09. > :01:12.by the latest hot new stand-up comedian on the Manchester circuit.
:01:13. > :01:17.I speak of course of former Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott.
:01:18. > :01:19.In between giving tub-thumping speeches to rally
:01:20. > :01:22.the party faithful this week, he's appearing at the Comedy Store.
:01:23. > :01:25.He was also of course the man behind the last attempt to solve
:01:26. > :01:37.Our political panel is with me as well. John, we have got Scottish
:01:38. > :01:40.votes for Scottish laws, and more Scottish votes for Scottish laws,
:01:41. > :01:45.why not English votes for English laws? That's an English parliament
:01:46. > :01:49.in a major constitutional change and that is what has started. I
:01:50. > :01:53.certainly don't agree with that I campaign for powers to be given to
:01:54. > :01:56.the regions. When I first tested it in the Northeast, I lost. Why?
:01:57. > :02:01.Because they said they were not the same powers you are giving to
:02:02. > :02:09.Scotland. So, basically, we must do that, decentralised, not just with a
:02:10. > :02:12.Westminster Parliament. As you know, in 32 years I produce the
:02:13. > :02:17.alternative. You've kept that for 32 years? I took it off my shelf and
:02:18. > :02:23.everybody was talking about it now, but they weren't in 1982. This was
:02:24. > :02:29.my five plan. 200 meetings all around the country -- five-year
:02:30. > :02:33.plan. You wrote this morning, not 35 years ago, that this was a plot to
:02:34. > :02:36.turn Westminster into a Tory dominated English parliament. But if
:02:37. > :02:42.that is how England had voted, it's not a plot, it's democracy. You can
:02:43. > :02:46.get reform in a more federal structure, and even English
:02:47. > :02:49.parliament does fit into the federal structure and that is what the
:02:50. > :02:54.Liberals say, but you need a fairer representation. It might be quite
:02:55. > :02:58.radical, and we could get rid of the Lord's, and have representation in
:02:59. > :03:05.the region there. It can't be done in two weeks. Alex Salmond, he's
:03:06. > :03:07.assuming he has been sold out, and it was less than a week ago they
:03:08. > :03:13.remain the announcement. We have to get it carried out will stop but
:03:14. > :03:18.don't connect it to the English parliament that fixes it in their
:03:19. > :03:21.favour. It may be pretty low politics from David Cameron to come
:03:22. > :03:28.up with something that was not in the vowel -- a bow on the front page
:03:29. > :03:30.of the daily record, but if they do not agree with what he said at the
:03:31. > :03:34.time of the general election, he will say two in which voters, if you
:03:35. > :03:38.want real protection in England vote Conservative, and if you want
:03:39. > :03:42.Scottish MPs deciding on your level of taxation, vote Labour. He is
:03:43. > :03:46.scared to death of UKIP may have been saying it for a while. In the
:03:47. > :03:50.constitutional changes have to see what is fair and equitable, the same
:03:51. > :03:54.with the Barnett fallen -- formula. But what you have to do is get a
:03:55. > :03:58.fair system. It takes time to discuss it. I was doing a 32 years
:03:59. > :04:02.ago and nobody wanted to know. We had better start a debate, and don't
:04:03. > :04:07.mixed up the constitutional type of English parliament with what we are
:04:08. > :04:13.promising in Scotland. It is about trust and politics. So the turnout
:04:14. > :04:18.of the north-east regional assembly and they voted against it. The
:04:19. > :04:21.turnout that the police and crime commissioners was low. How'd you get
:04:22. > :04:25.people interested in the process and it doesn't feel like a conversation
:04:26. > :04:28.in smoky rooms and you go back to British people and tell them what
:04:29. > :04:33.you decided? If you look at the turnout in Scotland whether they
:04:34. > :04:36.were interested in, now it is phenomenally interesting. It is
:04:37. > :04:39.about real power, having real influence. What they said to me in
:04:40. > :04:43.the north-east, they said we know you have an idea for devolution and
:04:44. > :04:46.you will give us assemblies but it doesn't have the power of Scotland,
:04:47. > :04:50.but now we are talking about equity, similar distribution of
:04:51. > :04:53.power and similar resources. The English people are entitled to that.
:04:54. > :04:59.They have been robbed of it for too long. Labour has long struggled with
:05:00. > :05:03.what it should do over devolving power to the regions and you came up
:05:04. > :05:07.with regional assemblies. Ed Miliband has a different idea of
:05:08. > :05:10.city regions. Aren't they the same idea of yours but without a
:05:11. > :05:14.democratic accountability? Can we really trust the greater region of
:05:15. > :05:19.Manchester or Birmingham to deliver if there is not the same kind of
:05:20. > :05:24.democratic link with the people I live in whole, and it stops on the
:05:25. > :05:29.boundary of the Pennines -- the city of Hull. We have city regions from
:05:30. > :05:33.Labour because I failed in the north-east to get the assemblies in,
:05:34. > :05:37.and now we have to look at those options. Do you work through city
:05:38. > :05:40.regions? Mainly in the north, I might say. Even the federal
:05:41. > :05:43.structure they talk about my be in the North or Midlands with
:05:44. > :05:48.Birmingham, but there are a number of options and that is where I
:05:49. > :05:52.believe that what the White Paper should do is to put those options
:05:53. > :05:56.in. Instead of having to put them together, state what you want to do
:05:57. > :05:59.in the English regions. Leave it to the legislation, which is what will
:06:00. > :06:03.happen with the Scottish, and once you've agreed it, you do it after.
:06:04. > :06:07.You have to start the radical debate about giving the English regions,
:06:08. > :06:12.not centralised in London, but decentralised. Do you need to have a
:06:13. > :06:17.separate English parliament? Wouldn't it just satisfy the English
:06:18. > :06:21.if you simply said to MPs, when it's in English matter in the House of
:06:22. > :06:25.Commons, stop interfering? I would disagree with that. I would say put
:06:26. > :06:30.the option in the White Paper. The White Paper seems to be talking
:06:31. > :06:33.about Scotland. If you don't put the commitments to what you want to do
:06:34. > :06:38.with the English regions, people might say I'm not supporting that.
:06:39. > :06:41.Put the framework in the White Paper, but a different timetable.
:06:42. > :06:46.Devolution in this country has been to a different timetable, whether
:06:47. > :06:49.it's Wales, Northern Ireland. Start looking fundamentally at it and the
:06:50. > :06:56.Labour Party should be leading the debate. Let's come the no campaign
:06:57. > :07:00.lost Glasgow. The cradle of British socialism. -- let's come to
:07:01. > :07:04.something that happened with the referendum as the no campaign lost
:07:05. > :07:09.Glasgow. Is it a sign that the Labour Party are finding it hard to
:07:10. > :07:12.what -- hold on to their traditional working class vote question mark its
:07:13. > :07:17.different in Manchester. They would say it is a message about
:07:18. > :07:26.decentralisation. If we change the message a bit maybe. We have been
:07:27. > :07:29.thinking that now it is that either the Labour Party to recognise it is
:07:30. > :07:33.not the old message and old areas that will win it. I remember
:07:34. > :07:38.covering the 1997 referendum in Scotland and you gave a tub thumping
:07:39. > :07:41.speech in a big hall in Hamilton and you really connected. Obviously it
:07:42. > :07:45.was a different referendum because that was about a parliament, not
:07:46. > :07:49.independence and Alex Salmond was on your side, but you, and Ingush MP,
:07:50. > :07:53.an English minister, connected to the core Labour voters in a way that
:07:54. > :08:02.Ed Miliband is failing to do -- an English MP. You make a fair point.
:08:03. > :08:09.In the big rally, I had to point out I was Welsh. Enough of this. Get on
:08:10. > :08:14.with it. What I was saying there was that I supported you, as I did for
:08:15. > :08:18.30 odd years when Labour MPs were against any thinker Scotland. I
:08:19. > :08:20.support you, but I expect you to come in with your Scottish MPs and
:08:21. > :08:25.make sure the English get their share of the powers and resources
:08:26. > :08:31.and that is what that speech was about, and by God, it's as relevant
:08:32. > :08:35.today as it was then. I haven't got any Scottish MPs, I live in
:08:36. > :08:43.Knightsbridge. Did you get the vote? No. What would you have done? I
:08:44. > :08:50.can't tell you. You would have voted yes, come on. I'm interested. What
:08:51. > :08:57.do you want to hear from the speech by Ed Miliband? People are wondering
:08:58. > :09:00.about where Labour stands. There are many issues we have flown around,
:09:01. > :09:07.and we've done the discussion just now. What he has got to do where he
:09:08. > :09:12.started off on the minimum wage You are trying to deal with those left
:09:13. > :09:15.behind. Those are the bottom. That is the Labour message. The National
:09:16. > :09:19.Health Service is our creation and we have to say it will be saved If
:09:20. > :09:22.you can save all of these bankers with all the money and say you
:09:23. > :09:28.haven't got the money for the NHS, say where we stand. That will be the
:09:29. > :09:31.priority. The third one, housing. I have had a revolutionary idea that
:09:32. > :09:34.you can buy a house without a deposit and without the interest or
:09:35. > :09:40.paying the stamp duty, and you buy it by rent. The government gives
:09:41. > :09:44.?150 billion guaranteed housing for up to 600,000. Get down to ordinary
:09:45. > :09:48.people who can use their rent to buy the house. It's happening in the
:09:49. > :09:51.north-east. Why are they not listening to you? You have said more
:09:52. > :09:56.to connect with ordinary people in three minutes than we will probably
:09:57. > :09:59.hear in an hour. I've been telling them, made, and we have a commission
:10:00. > :10:06.coming out. People don't want commissions, they want action. I
:10:07. > :10:09.say, I know what we do, housing health, the people. That is our
:10:10. > :10:14.language. That is why we are Labour. That a lot of people run away. I
:10:15. > :10:18.think in Glasgow, they wondered about that. If you turn up on the
:10:19. > :10:22.same three platforms, and I know it's a critical thing to say, they
:10:23. > :10:27.think in Scotland it is a coalition. I don't like coalitions. It looks
:10:28. > :10:32.like a coalition, didn't it? Maybe it was saved because Rupert Murdoch
:10:33. > :10:38.started the The Times about the polls and he couldn't even get the
:10:39. > :10:41.sun to say that they wanted. We haven't got time. I wondered how
:10:42. > :10:47.long it would take is to get to repot Murdoch. You beat the record.
:10:48. > :10:51.-- to Rupert Murdoch. Labour is quite behind on the economy, and
:10:52. > :10:54.people are looking at Labour, trying to work out if they can trust you to
:10:55. > :11:01.the stewards of the economy given 2010. Under Labour 's plans there is
:11:02. > :11:06.20 billion of cuts to make in the next Parliament. Will we hear
:11:07. > :11:11.anything about that? It is about the proportion of debt to GDP. I know it
:11:12. > :11:16.sounds historic, but our debt when we came in in 1997 was a proportion
:11:17. > :11:23.of GDP, and you must know this, and that was less than Thatcher's. Why
:11:24. > :11:26.did we get done on debt? You guys run around saying a lot about it,
:11:27. > :11:33.but the fact is it was worse under Thatcher. Thatcher is now seen as a
:11:34. > :11:37.hero. If you look at the debt, it is still a problem. Gordon Brown did an
:11:38. > :11:41.awful lot to solve those problems, but they were still left with us.
:11:42. > :11:44.What we have to have is a sensible discussion like we had on devolution
:11:45. > :11:49.and now we are talking about finances. Let's look at the public
:11:50. > :11:52.sector debt and the price we pay. We need to be putting the record
:11:53. > :11:56.straight. The problem is they tell me, John, we have to look to the
:11:57. > :11:59.future not the past. We are getting screwed on the past and we have to
:12:00. > :12:05.change it and perhaps Gordon Brown coming in could do something.
:12:06. > :12:10.Finishing on the future, when we did a poll of the Labour candidates you
:12:11. > :12:14.were watching on the big screen when it came up that their favourite
:12:15. > :12:25.to succeed Ed Miliband was Yvette Cooper, why did you shout no! That
:12:26. > :12:27.is alive. -- alive. -- that is not true. I know resistance is not
:12:28. > :12:44.strong. What did that mean? You can't get away with anything at
:12:45. > :12:49.a Conference, John. I was dropping comments them to pick up everywhere,
:12:50. > :12:55.I do not wear -- nowhere they got that one from. Good to have you
:12:56. > :12:59.back. Round of applause for former Deputy Prime Minister. That's it for
:13:00. > :13:01.today. Don't applaud them, they are useless.
:13:02. > :13:06.my guests. I'll be back here at Labour conference for the Daily
:13:07. > :13:10.11:30am tomorrow when we'll bring you live coverage of the speech by
:13:11. > :13:15.We're here all week, and next Sunday you can find us in Birmingham for
:13:16. > :13:22.Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.