:00:36. > :00:41.There's another candidate in the race to become Ukip's next
:00:42. > :00:43.leader: Suzanne Evans, the party's former deputy chairman,
:00:44. > :00:50.This man might have something to say about that.
:00:51. > :00:53.Paul Nuttal was Nigel Farage's deputy for many years.
:00:54. > :00:56.So is he now ready to throw his hat in the ring?
:00:57. > :01:01.The battle for Mosul: the Iraqi army and its allies advane
:01:02. > :01:04.on the country's second city which has been in the hands of
:01:05. > :01:12.In the South West... from this key clash?
:01:13. > :01:15.Will fishermen get a better deal post-Brexit or will it get worse?
:01:16. > :01:20.And the delivery of rural broadband falls even further behind.
:01:21. > :01:24.one of the richest cities in the world. Should all private landlords
:01:25. > :01:29.be licensed to help tackle the squalor?
:01:30. > :01:32.And with me - as always - the best and the brightest political
:01:33. > :01:35.panel in the business: Toby Young, Polly Toynbee and Tom Newton Dunn -
:01:36. > :01:44.The last leader was in the job a mere 18 days before she decided
:01:45. > :01:50.The favourite to succeed her then quit the party after a now infamous
:01:51. > :01:55.Ukip's biggest donor says the party is at "breaking point".
:01:56. > :02:02.This morning, the former Deputy Chairman, Suzanne Evans,
:02:03. > :02:04.announced that she would be running for the leadership.
:02:05. > :02:09.I've thought long and hard about this leadership bid,
:02:10. > :02:12.and one of the reasons I've perhaps delayed announcing it is
:02:13. > :02:15.because I wanted to be absolutely sure that I had the support
:02:16. > :02:19.And I can confirm that I have more than enough signatures
:02:20. > :02:22.on the nomination form already to be able to go forward.
:02:23. > :02:26.Let's not forget that 3,000 people signed a petition in support of me
:02:27. > :02:31.I know head office was besieged with letters in support.
:02:32. > :02:34.I would not be doing this if I didn't have the backing
:02:35. > :02:37.of our members, because our members are the most important
:02:38. > :02:45.Well, Paul Nuttall was Nigel Farage's deputy for many years
:02:46. > :02:49.and plenty of people saw him as a leader-in-waiting.
:02:50. > :02:57.Let's ask the man himself - Paul Nuttall joins me now.
:02:58. > :03:04.Yes. I've made the decision that I'm going to put my name forward to be
:03:05. > :03:09.the next leader of Ukip. I have huge support across the country, not only
:03:10. > :03:14.amongst people at the top of the party in Westminster and with the
:03:15. > :03:18.MEPs, but also the grassroots. I want to be the unity candidate. Ukip
:03:19. > :03:22.needs to come together. I'm not going to gild the lily. Ukip is
:03:23. > :03:34.looking over a political cliff at the moment. It will either step four
:03:35. > :03:37.step back, and I want to tell us to step backwards. You say it faces an
:03:38. > :03:39.ex-distension or threat, which means it's possible it has no future at
:03:40. > :03:45.all. Students of political history know that political parties take a
:03:46. > :03:50.long time to get going. They can disappear pretty quickly. Ukip is
:03:51. > :03:55.facing an existential crisis. What happened over the summer has put us
:03:56. > :04:00.on a... We could be on a spiral that we can't get off. But I believe I am
:04:01. > :04:04.the man to bring the factions together, to create unity within the
:04:05. > :04:08.party, and to build on the structure and get us ready for the common
:04:09. > :04:13.challenges. Why didn't you stand last time? Because I have spent the
:04:14. > :04:17.last four or five years of my life travelling around the country. I
:04:18. > :04:23.have done more Ukip meetings than anybody else, spending a lot of time
:04:24. > :04:28.away from home. With Brexit, I felt that my job and Nigel's job was done
:04:29. > :04:31.and we could hand over to the next generation. That doesn't seem to be
:04:32. > :04:36.the case, and maybe it's time for someone who is an old hand. I'm very
:04:37. > :04:41.experienced and I know the party inside out. Maybe it's time to step
:04:42. > :04:48.in and bring the party together You told the Liverpool Echo on the night
:04:49. > :04:51.of July that you didn't wish to take on Nigel Farage, you didn't want
:04:52. > :05:01.that to happen to your family and friends. What has changed? The party
:05:02. > :05:05.is facing an existential crisis and I want to make sure that Ukip is on
:05:06. > :05:12.the pitch to keep the ball into the open net we have in politics. We
:05:13. > :05:18.have a Conservative Party who is moving toward Brexit, but we have to
:05:19. > :05:23.be there too. Why would you be better than Suzanne Evans? Suzanne
:05:24. > :05:27.would be an excellent candidate I thought the 2015 manifesto was the
:05:28. > :05:31.best out of all the political parties. I would be the best
:05:32. > :05:37.candidate because of my experience. I am not part of any faction within
:05:38. > :05:41.the party. Is she? I get on well with everybody, and I believe I
:05:42. > :05:48.could be the man to bring the party together. Do you get on with Iain
:05:49. > :05:53.Banks, -- Aaron Banks, who is supporting one of your rivals? Yes,
:05:54. > :05:58.I get on well with him. He is able to choose whoever he wants to be the
:05:59. > :06:02.next leader of the party. After November 28, the leadership
:06:03. > :06:08.election, we all say, the past the past. It becomes Daisy row for the
:06:09. > :06:14.new leader. We forget all that has before and move on. You won the
:06:15. > :06:18.referendum. Mrs May is adopting some of your policies, like grammar
:06:19. > :06:24.schools. What is the point of Ukip these days? Twofold. We don't have
:06:25. > :06:28.Brexit. Mrs May said she would not invoke Article 50 until the end of
:06:29. > :06:34.March, and we don't know if that will happen. We need to ensure a
:06:35. > :06:39.strong Ukip to make sure that Brexit really does mean Brexit. We have a
:06:40. > :06:43.huge opportunity in working class communities where the Labour Party
:06:44. > :06:48.no longer represents them. I believe Ukip can become the voice of working
:06:49. > :06:52.people. If you were the leader, would Ukip be a bigger threat to
:06:53. > :06:57.Labour in the north or the Tories in the South? You save Labour in the
:06:58. > :07:01.north, and people often to make that mistake. There's working class
:07:02. > :07:03.communities right across the country is. There are working-class
:07:04. > :07:18.communities in Bristol just as in Newcastle. We are second in a
:07:19. > :07:21.number of northern seats, and southern seats as well, and I
:07:22. > :07:24.believe the party can move into these communities. It can only do so
:07:25. > :07:26.if Ukip is on the pitch, and I intend to make sure that's the case.
:07:27. > :07:33.I don't think we have portrayed a good image over the summer. Is that
:07:34. > :07:41.called British understatement? A bit. It is dysfunctional. We have to
:07:42. > :07:44.move on beyond Nigel Farage. We have to build a strong national Executive
:07:45. > :07:50.Committee. We need to ensure our branches are ready for the fight and
:07:51. > :07:54.concentrate on local elections. I've got the experience. I'm now throwing
:07:55. > :08:00.my hat into the ring, and I'm the only person who can keep Ukip in the
:08:01. > :08:04.game. What role would you give Nigel Farage, if any? I will be the
:08:05. > :08:09.candidate of compromise. I would see what Nigel wanted to do. Would you
:08:10. > :08:13.keep in the leader of the freedom and democracy group in the European
:08:14. > :08:16.Parliament? There would have to be compromise on both sides, and we
:08:17. > :08:24.would need to talk about it. I don't know what Nigel wants to do. Do you
:08:25. > :08:28.think his support, his association with Donald Trump, helps Ukip win
:08:29. > :08:32.female votes in this country? Personally, I would not have gone
:08:33. > :08:38.out and campaigned or said anything about Donald Trump, but I don't
:08:39. > :08:43.think Ukip has come out and backed Donald Trump 100%. Personally, I
:08:44. > :08:45.wouldn't have even spoken about the American election, because I think
:08:46. > :08:52.the two candidates are quite appalling. Some up for us. If you
:08:53. > :08:57.win, what would be the hallmark of your Ukip leadership? The first
:08:58. > :09:03.couple of months would be ensuring that Ukip unifies. Saying no to
:09:04. > :09:09.factions, bringing people together. Suzanne Evans, Nigel Farage, all of
:09:10. > :09:14.the MEPs, and ensuring that Ukip can move forward. If we don't unify
:09:15. > :09:15.Ukip will not be around for much longer. Thanks for being with us
:09:16. > :09:18.this morning. We won't have to wait too long
:09:19. > :09:20.to find out who Ukip's new leader will be -
:09:21. > :09:30.the winner will be announced Who would be the best leader for
:09:31. > :09:34.Ukip? I think the difference between the field a few weeks ago and today
:09:35. > :09:42.is that this field is a lot stronger. Whether it's Paul or
:09:43. > :09:50.Suzanne, I think... It is hard to say, with Aaron Banks and apparently
:09:51. > :09:57.Nigel Farage hacking another candidate, Raheem, but I want Ukip
:09:58. > :10:04.to be a strong force in British politics. I think the fact there is
:10:05. > :10:12.a stronger field now is good news for Ukip. Is it a Labour's worst
:10:13. > :10:18.nightmare in the north of England? It is. I think the personality
:10:19. > :10:22.difference and presentational difference is interesting. Suzanne
:10:23. > :10:26.Evans is going for the Conservative county vote. There's a lot to be
:10:27. > :10:33.taken there by Ukip. He would probably be more appealing to the
:10:34. > :10:40.Labour vote. It is interesting. At the moment, pollsters say that the
:10:41. > :10:51.Ukip vote splits pretty easily between Labour and Tory. But things
:10:52. > :10:55.always collapse. When they have made inroads into Tower Hamlets and
:10:56. > :11:03.Barking, they collapse, because they fight amongst each other so much.
:11:04. > :11:11.But not always with fists! Does Ukip have a future? And who would best
:11:12. > :11:15.secure that future? It does for at least two years, until we Brexit. We
:11:16. > :11:22.have to believe that that will happen. That was an impressive pitch
:11:23. > :11:26.there from Paul, certainly as the unity candidate, after the car crash
:11:27. > :11:32.we have seen on TV screens this morning. But it doesn't go beyond
:11:33. > :11:34.May 20 19. What then? There is no point being called the United
:11:35. > :11:42.Kingdom Independence party any longer. What will happen after May
:11:43. > :11:46.2019? If you want to hoover up votes of the back of Brexit, you need to
:11:47. > :11:51.start looking further ahead than two years. The person who wins that
:11:52. > :11:53.leadership contest is the person who will sum that up the best. We shall
:11:54. > :11:56.see. In June 2014, the group which calls
:11:57. > :11:59.itself the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant captured Iraq's
:12:00. > :12:01.second city, Mosul. Later that month the group announced
:12:02. > :12:04.it was establishing a 'caliphate', or an Islamic state,
:12:05. > :12:06.on the territories it This week 30,000 Iraqi troops, aided
:12:07. > :12:15.by Iranian-backed Shia fighters Kurdish Peshmerga and Western air
:12:16. > :12:20.support, began the assault Then they spot a truck bomb
:12:21. > :12:38.from so-called Islamic State. They destroy it before
:12:39. > :12:42.it destroys them. These are the first steps
:12:43. > :12:45.in the battle for Mosul, the Northern Iraqi city IS has
:12:46. > :12:50.made its stronghold since 2014. Controlling the city of around
:12:51. > :12:55.2 million people means that they established governance,
:12:56. > :12:59.they establish a territorial base. This is what has obsessed everyone,
:13:00. > :13:02.because with a territorial base you are capable of doing more
:13:03. > :13:07.than if you are simply an insurgency movement in the fabric
:13:08. > :13:11.of another society. It's being billed as the biggest
:13:12. > :13:15.military operation in Iraq since the war in 2003, the biggest
:13:16. > :13:19.moment in the international effort Here is how the various forces
:13:20. > :13:24.are approaching the city. Heading to Mosul from the south
:13:25. > :13:29.the elite troops of the Iraqi army. Known as the Golden division,
:13:30. > :13:31.trained and accompanied From the North, a force made up
:13:32. > :13:38.of Kurds, known as the Peshmerga, Also from the South,
:13:39. > :13:43.a militia made up of Shia fighters who have been accused
:13:44. > :13:47.of human rights abuses. British planes have bombed outlying
:13:48. > :13:49.villages, reportedly guided in by British personnel
:13:50. > :13:57.on the ground. To the North West, a corridor
:13:58. > :14:00.has been left for some of the 3000 plus IS fighters,
:14:01. > :14:02.in theory an escape route which could limit the bloodshed
:14:03. > :14:05.when fighting starts in the city. We've had 4-5 days of battle
:14:06. > :14:08.and it's taking place in the outlying villages
:14:09. > :14:10.and there have been some successes and some failures,
:14:11. > :14:13.but the momentum is building. And the real question will be
:14:14. > :14:16.when the attackers get towards the city itself,
:14:17. > :14:20.how strong are the defences? It will crack but it might crack
:14:21. > :14:27.within 48 hours or 2-3 weeks. IS has fought back,
:14:28. > :14:32.on Friday they attack sites in the city of Kirkuk,
:14:33. > :14:34.including a power station. The United Nations believes hundreds
:14:35. > :14:36.of thousands of families have been rounded up
:14:37. > :14:39.as potential human shields. The battle could be bloody,
:14:40. > :14:44.but what about when it's over? The Shia militias, the Iraqi army,
:14:45. > :14:46.the Peshmerga guerrillas, some of the Turkish elements,
:14:47. > :14:49.they all want a share of the action. They are in Mosul, not
:14:50. > :14:53.for altruistic reasons. They are there because they want
:14:54. > :14:56.to be part of whatever happens next. The biggest issue is how the Sunni
:14:57. > :15:01.majority in Mosul reacts to the Shia militias which have
:15:02. > :15:05.helped to liberate them. ARCHIVE FOOTAGE: When Sir Francis
:15:06. > :15:07.Humphrey went to Mosul If it all seems like something
:15:08. > :15:11.from the archive, when the Middle East went up in flames
:15:12. > :15:14.and was then carved up, it is because that is what is
:15:15. > :15:17.happening in Iraq right now. National identity has been cut
:15:18. > :15:22.across by other identities such And that means that putting together
:15:23. > :15:32.a so-called nation state again Almost certainly there will be
:15:33. > :15:38.a new form of Kurdish state, almost certainly in northern Iraq
:15:39. > :15:41.at the end of this crisis, and what is happening in Mosul
:15:42. > :15:44.is a microcosm of what is happening elsewhere across the Levant
:15:45. > :15:48.which is that it is melting down. Big questions, questions that
:15:49. > :15:51.come after the battle. The coalition forces are advancing
:15:52. > :15:53.but this is just the beginning. I'm joined now by the International
:15:54. > :16:03.Development Minister Rory Stewart. In a former life he was
:16:04. > :16:06.the coalition Deputy-Governor of two provinces in Southern Iraq following
:16:07. > :16:21.the Iraq intervention of 2003. Is there any doubt that at some
:16:22. > :16:31.stage Mosul will fall to the forces of Iraq and its allies? The first
:16:32. > :16:34.thing is that war is very uncertain and there are cliches about it being
:16:35. > :16:37.the graveyard of predictions and we don't want to make confident
:16:38. > :16:46.predictions but the basic structure is that there are 30,000 Iraqi
:16:47. > :16:52.forces outside and only a few thousand Daesh fighters inside and I
:16:53. > :17:01.would say it is overwhelmingly likely that the batter will one
:17:02. > :17:04.STUDIO: -- the battle the won by the Iraqi forces.
:17:05. > :17:12.June 2014 was a great success, they took a city of over in people and
:17:13. > :17:16.they created what they tried to create a million state of 7 million
:17:17. > :17:21.people, stretching across the Iraqi Syrian border, but since then they
:17:22. > :17:24.have lost territory quite rapidly. Now they are losing the outskirts of
:17:25. > :17:29.Mosul, and that is a fundamental blow. Islamic State is all about
:17:30. > :17:32.territory and holding state, that is what makes it different from
:17:33. > :17:40.Al-Qaeda. If they lose Mosul that will be a cynic -- significant blow
:17:41. > :17:44.to their credibility. Hillary Clinton said on Wednesday's
:17:45. > :17:47.presidential debate that when Iraqi forces with their allies including
:17:48. > :17:53.the United Kingdom gain control of Mosul they should continue to press
:17:54. > :17:59.into Syria to take back Raqqa which is the de facto capital of the
:18:00. > :18:06.caliphate, what is left of it, do we want Iraqi forces to pursue IS into
:18:07. > :18:10.Syria? Very important question. Delayed in Raqqa needs to come from
:18:11. > :18:16.people on the Syrian side of the border and that is an important
:18:17. > :18:21.principle -- the lead. In the end of that enemy, Islamic State, is a
:18:22. > :18:27.common enemy for odd members of the coalition including the Iraqi
:18:28. > :18:32.government. -- all members. There is likely to be a humanitarian crisis
:18:33. > :18:34.especially if it ends up with street to street fighting and IS are
:18:35. > :18:41.difficult to dislodge what are we doing about that? We are doing very
:18:42. > :18:45.detailed scenario planning. It is very uncertain what the scenario
:18:46. > :18:53.will be but much investment has gone into creating a network of camps,
:18:54. > :19:02.refugees STUDIO: Refugee camps around cash refugee camps, and that
:19:03. > :19:05.is where money, British money, 40 million has gone recently into
:19:06. > :19:12.supporting that, especially in terms of medical support to people. The
:19:13. > :19:15.United nation's emergency response budget is ?196 million but only one
:19:16. > :19:19.third funded which sounds like we are putting up a big chunk of what
:19:20. > :19:24.is already being funded. Why is that? The international committee
:19:25. > :19:29.can't say they haven't seen this assault coming, and the humanitarian
:19:30. > :19:34.fallout they may see from it. You are absolutely right. We have seen
:19:35. > :19:37.it coming and we have been planning since debris and we have put in
:19:38. > :19:43.about ?167 million into this -- planning since February. There has
:19:44. > :19:47.been a change in the nature of the appeal, and if there is a lag in the
:19:48. > :19:50.accounting of it, but the money we need at this stage is in place and
:19:51. > :19:54.we do have the support structure in place for those refugees. You are
:19:55. > :19:58.right the United Nations is continuing with its appeal and is
:19:59. > :20:02.asking for more money at the moment. The converse magazine wrote this
:20:03. > :20:06.week that preparations for a big exodus of people leaving the city
:20:07. > :20:11.have been made -- Economist magazine. But confidence is not high
:20:12. > :20:17.in the preparations, is that a unfair conclusion? If you can
:20:18. > :20:20.imagine the different scenarios it could be a few thousand and it could
:20:21. > :20:23.be a few hundred thousand coming out of the city through a front line
:20:24. > :20:28.where the war is going on, that is very difficult. You have to screen
:20:29. > :20:32.those people and disarm them, and keep families together, and
:20:33. > :20:36.transport them and you have to bring them into the refugee camps. The
:20:37. > :20:39.people working on this have been working on this for long time, we
:20:40. > :20:45.have mapped the different routes we have good camp infrastructure in
:20:46. > :20:49.place and we have people who have worked in south to dam and other
:20:50. > :20:54.areas who are putting their structures in place -- South Sudan.
:20:55. > :20:57.It is never easy but I think we have done everything we can in the
:20:58. > :21:04.preparation for this. What is the British role in what will probably
:21:05. > :21:10.be an even bigger issue, assuming that Mosul is liberated and retaken,
:21:11. > :21:15.the humanitarian crisis is dealt with, what role will we play in the
:21:16. > :21:19.rebuilding of Mosul? That will be crucial to the future of Iraq, the
:21:20. > :21:25.second-biggest city and it will need to be rebuilt. It will need to be
:21:26. > :21:30.rebuilt as a community as well as bricks and mortar. And eight Sunni
:21:31. > :21:38.community that is not harassed by the Shia. -- and eight. You are
:21:39. > :21:40.right. One of the core drivers is that the Sunni community felt
:21:41. > :21:44.excluded and they did not feel they have the trust from the Baghdad
:21:45. > :21:52.government. A lasting solution is stopping some of Islamic State
:21:53. > :21:56.coming back, that involves making sure the Sunni community have a
:21:57. > :22:01.stake in their future. That is making sure that the governing
:22:02. > :22:06.structures are in place. The UK s response is twofold, we have got to
:22:07. > :22:09.get the humanitarian aid right, that is the short term, people who might
:22:10. > :22:14.be malnourished, coming out of the front line. The second thing is
:22:15. > :22:19.working with the Iraqi government to make sure that as we rebuild Mosul
:22:20. > :22:24.we do so in a way that that population feels a connection to the
:22:25. > :22:29.Iraqi state. Islamic State is losing territory everywhere in the Levant,
:22:30. > :22:34.it is almost finished in Iraq, we think. It is down to one district in
:22:35. > :22:41.Libya, as well, just one small part of the town. I suppose the risk is,
:22:42. > :22:46.if life is becoming more difficult across these areas, it can start to
:22:47. > :22:50.look more in Europe and the United Kingdom as a place to continue its
:22:51. > :22:56.terrorist attacks? That is a real danger. You are right. This is a
:22:57. > :23:00.group which has proved over the last five years very unpredictable and it
:23:01. > :23:06.changes for it quickly full stop often it does unexpected things In
:23:07. > :23:11.2009 its predecessor had been largely wiped out in Iraq and when
:23:12. > :23:14.it was under pressure in Syria it went back into Iraq, and in the past
:23:15. > :23:19.it didn't hold territory but now it holds territory, so you are right.
:23:20. > :23:23.There is a serious risk that as it gets squeezed in the middle East it
:23:24. > :23:28.will try to pop up somewhere else and Mac could include Europe and the
:23:29. > :23:31.United States -- that could. They say that is something they have
:23:32. > :23:36.focused on full stop we also have a big focus on counterterrorism
:23:37. > :23:44.security and making sure that we keep the United Kingdom and Europe
:23:45. > :23:50.say. One final question. -- say -- safe. Maybe events in Mosul could
:23:51. > :23:55.add to the migration crisis in Europe, is that a possibility?
:23:56. > :24:01.Again, you are right, we have seen in Syria it can push migration, the
:24:02. > :24:04.biggest push the migration was the conflict in Syria, and that's the
:24:05. > :24:08.reason why we have but so much energy into getting those refugee
:24:09. > :24:13.camps in place and getting the humanitarian response in place -
:24:14. > :24:16.put so much energy. People will want to remain in their homes, this is
:24:17. > :24:19.their country, but we have got to make it possible for them and that
:24:20. > :24:24.means in the short term looking after their shelter and in the
:24:25. > :24:28.medium to long-term making sure they have livelihoods, jobs and an
:24:29. > :24:32.economic development which is why our support in Iraq is in the UK
:24:33. > :24:38.National interests because it deals with these issues of migration and
:24:39. > :24:42.terrorists. Thanks for joining us. I'm joined now by the Shadow Defence
:24:43. > :24:59.Secretary. Does Labour support British
:25:00. > :25:03.participation in this offensive We fully support the participation in
:25:04. > :25:09.this offensive, extremely important move forward and we voted for this
:25:10. > :25:12.back in 2014. We are asking the government question is, of course, I
:25:13. > :25:18.was asking the Secretary of State this week about this very offensive
:25:19. > :25:22.but we are fully behind our RAF pilots out there and be trading that
:25:23. > :25:27.has been going on to help the forces on the ground. -- the training full
:25:28. > :25:33.stop that is very clear. I wonder if you'll lead it shares that clarity
:25:34. > :25:36.and that position. -- is your leader. This is what Jeremy Corbyn
:25:37. > :25:38.has said. What's been done in Iraq
:25:39. > :25:40.is done by the Iraqi government, and currently
:25:41. > :25:42.supported by the British government. I did not support it
:25:43. > :25:44.when it came up. Well, I'm not sure how successful
:25:45. > :25:48.it's been, because most of the action now appears to be
:25:49. > :26:00.moving in to Syria, so I think we He doesn't sound very supportive.
:26:01. > :26:02.The issue about Mosul, it has been very carefully prepared as Rory
:26:03. > :26:08.Stewart said and I hope we have learned the lessons from previous
:26:09. > :26:12.offensives where we haven't learnt sufficiently, and that is going to
:26:13. > :26:17.be crucial in this context. How the aftermath is going to be dealt with.
:26:18. > :26:22.Of course will stop that clip was from November last year, and things
:26:23. > :26:28.have changed. Two weeks ago he told the BBC" I'm not sure it is
:26:29. > :26:32.working", in reference to air strikes in Iraq, but it is working.
:26:33. > :26:36.We have got to see what happens in Mosul, it is a very high-risk
:26:37. > :26:40.operation, but we also have to face the fact that the people there are
:26:41. > :26:47.living under tyranny at the moment. We have to ask very cirrus question
:26:48. > :26:51.shall stop he says he's not sure it is working, when Mosul is the last
:26:52. > :26:55.major target be cleared of Islamic State in Iraq. The combination of
:26:56. > :26:59.Allied air power has worked, why is he not sure it is working? Because
:27:00. > :27:06.we have seen difficulties in the past. But this was two weeks ago. It
:27:07. > :27:09.is essential that the work is done, both planning for the refugees as
:27:10. > :27:12.Rory Stewart referred to, but also in terms of reconstruction of the
:27:13. > :27:18.city and its community as you mentioned. These are vital. This was
:27:19. > :27:23.about the ability to make progress with Allied air power, special
:27:24. > :27:28.forces in Iraq, on the ground, do you accept so far that has a
:27:29. > :27:40.strategy that seems to be working to read Iraq of Islamic -- to read Iraq
:27:41. > :27:53.of Islamic State the question of the car began placement. Ulloa -- we
:27:54. > :27:56.can't be complacent. The problems they are creating where ever they
:27:57. > :28:01.are urged that we must continue to pursue them. This is the first time
:28:02. > :28:04.we have spoken to since you have become the Shadow Defence Secretary.
:28:05. > :28:10.I hope we will have a longer interview. Will Labour's next
:28:11. > :28:16.manifesto include a commitment to the renewal of Trident? It will We
:28:17. > :28:19.made that commitment in 2007, that is a firm commitment and we will
:28:20. > :28:22.honour that to our coalition allies and our industrial partners and that
:28:23. > :28:26.is the vote which was taken democratically and repeatedly has
:28:27. > :28:32.been reaffirmed by Labour conference and we are a democratic party vote
:28:33. > :28:38.up you have squared that with Jeremy Corbyn? He's in favour of democracy
:28:39. > :28:42.and he understands the situation, but we also want to push for the UK
:28:43. > :28:47.to play a much bigger role on the international stage on multilateral
:28:48. > :28:51.disarmament talks. You were very clear there, I thank you for that.
:28:52. > :28:56.Support for Trident will be in the next Labour manifesto. What has
:28:57. > :29:01.happened to Labour's review of Trident policy? That review has been
:29:02. > :29:06.taking place over the year, we had a very clear reaffirmation in the
:29:07. > :29:09.conference boat this year, we are reaffirming our commitment to
:29:10. > :29:16.Trident -- vote. The review can t change that? There is a process of
:29:17. > :29:22.review and a fair number of issues related to defence, all parties do
:29:23. > :29:26.this. Of course. The review can t change the commitment to Trident? We
:29:27. > :29:32.are not changing the commitment to Trident. Russia is now the main
:29:33. > :29:35.strategic threat to this country? It is a major strategic threat and we
:29:36. > :29:38.have got to work with our Nato allies very closely and make sure
:29:39. > :29:42.that we respond and that we do not let things pass. For example, we
:29:43. > :29:48.should be calling out Russia for the way it has been a bombing
:29:49. > :29:50.humanitarian aid and we should be taking them to international court
:29:51. > :29:58.over this, but we should also be strengthening sanctions, somewhat
:29:59. > :30:03.imposed over Ukraine. We try to do that, but the Italians wouldn't let
:30:04. > :30:05.us. The Italians did not want to participate in the European
:30:06. > :30:11.initiative but that doesn't stop individual countries for the Britain
:30:12. > :30:14.should step up? Yes, we should look at what is practical to impose.
:30:15. > :30:20.Thanks for joining us. Mosul is not the only major battle
:30:21. > :30:22.being waged in the Middle East. The city of Aleppo in northern Syria
:30:23. > :30:26.has seen some of the heaviest bombardment since Syria's
:30:27. > :30:29.five-year-long civil war began. This week Russian warships,
:30:30. > :30:32.in a deliberate show of power, sailed west through the English
:30:33. > :30:36.channel en route to Syria. Nato says it's Russia's "largest
:30:37. > :30:39.surface deployment" since the end of the Cold War in what is thought
:30:40. > :30:42.to be preparation for a final assault
:30:43. > :30:46.on the besieged city of Aleppo. In the city itself fighting
:30:47. > :30:50.resumed overnight - following a 3-day ceasefire -
:30:51. > :30:55.with more air strikes and heavy clashes in the city's
:30:56. > :30:58.rebel-held eastern districts. Almost 500 people have been
:30:59. > :31:01.killed and 2,000 injured since Syrian government forces,
:31:02. > :31:05.backed by Russian air strikes, This week Theresa May condemned
:31:06. > :31:12.Vladimir Putin's involvement in Syria, accusing Moscow
:31:13. > :31:15.of being behind "sickening atrocities" in support
:31:16. > :31:18.of President Assad's regime. But European leaders are divided
:31:19. > :31:23.on how to respond and, with the United States preoccupied
:31:24. > :31:25.with domestic politics, President Putin senses this
:31:26. > :31:29.is his moment to bring the Syrian I'm joined now by the BBC's former
:31:30. > :31:37.Diplomatic and Moscow Correspondent, Bridget Kendall, who is now Master
:31:38. > :31:50.of Peterhouse College in Cambridge. Welcome. Good to see you in the BBC
:31:51. > :31:57.studio again. Let me put up this satellite image of Aleppo here, to
:31:58. > :32:02.get an idea of the scale. It was the biggest city in Syria. It was the
:32:03. > :32:07.commercial capital and a huge cultural hub as well. Almost the New
:32:08. > :32:12.York of Syria, to give you an idea of its significance to the country.
:32:13. > :32:17.Let me show you now how it's been divided. The rebels are now in
:32:18. > :32:24.control of the eastern part, about eight miles long and three miles
:32:25. > :32:28.wide there, they're in purple. They are under great attacks still. Is it
:32:29. > :32:37.inevitable that that purple part falls to the regime? That is what
:32:38. > :32:43.President as Saad, the Russians and the Iranians hope. The fierce
:32:44. > :32:47.bombardments we have seen is part of that. I'm reminded very much in the
:32:48. > :32:52.Russian tactics of what happened in grudgingly in Chechnya in 2000, when
:32:53. > :32:58.the Russians said, a warning for all civilians to lead, and then they
:32:59. > :33:03.went ahead and they basically raised it to the ground. They are talking
:33:04. > :33:09.about Al Nusrah as being one of the rebel groups. They got rid of all of
:33:10. > :33:13.the terrorists. They talk about it being an Al-Qaeda offshoot. The
:33:14. > :33:17.purpose of going in is to get rid of them. You get the civilians out and
:33:18. > :33:23.then you take it. But this isn't like Chechnya. It is much more
:33:24. > :33:27.complex. We have seen an attempt to take Aleppo before, and then there
:33:28. > :33:31.was a rebel counter offensive. It's not so certain. And there are so
:33:32. > :33:35.many different parties involved We have seen the alarm in the west of
:33:36. > :33:45.the extent of the civilian casualties. There have been
:33:46. > :33:48.rumblings in the west of, shouldn't the United States do something?
:33:49. > :33:51.Shouldn't they stop the Syrian air force? This Russian aircraft carrier
:33:52. > :33:57.steaming its way towards the Eastern Mediterranean is a symbolic gesture,
:33:58. > :34:03.both to its own people, but also to the West, to say, don't get involved
:34:04. > :34:09.in Aleppo if we go ahead. Don't try and stop us because we could up the
:34:10. > :34:13.ante. They have not been great visual pictures, because the
:34:14. > :34:20.aircraft carrier looks a bit clapped out, belching out smoke! If the
:34:21. > :34:24.rebel controlled area does fall it would be seen as a great victory for
:34:25. > :34:29.President as Saad and his Russian allies. What is the aim of Russia
:34:30. > :34:34.here? What would they then do, if Aleppo Falls? It is part of a plan
:34:35. > :34:41.that President Putin set out in his UN speech in 2014, before Russia
:34:42. > :34:44.went into Syria. The aim is to put President Assad back in charge.
:34:45. > :34:49.President Putin said this weekend that either is Assad in Damascus, or
:34:50. > :34:54.its Al Nusrah. There is nothing in between. They want to eliminate the
:34:55. > :35:00.argument for a moderate opposition. They want to make it plain that the
:35:01. > :35:08.only way to get a stable Syria is to have Assad back in charge. Even sue
:35:09. > :35:16.argue for a rump steak lit, leaving aside what is happening with IAS.
:35:17. > :35:20.They have already said they want to have an enlarged military presence
:35:21. > :35:28.at their bases. And they have a big naval base. It is. It is a chance to
:35:29. > :35:34.push for this when he sees the West is being distracted and divided
:35:35. > :35:39.Europe and America, by elections and so on. Just before the US elections.
:35:40. > :35:44.The Americans are worried about that, Europeans are being distracted
:35:45. > :35:49.by Brexit. He can push to his maximum advantage now, before there
:35:50. > :35:59.is a new US president. If they do take that part of Aleppo, and that
:36:00. > :36:04.part of northern Syria, does Mr Putin want us to recognise, to
:36:05. > :36:10.admit, that that is now his sphere of influence? I think the rhetoric
:36:11. > :36:15.from the Russians is that they want the West to recognise that they are
:36:16. > :36:19.an equal powerful partner. It's not just the US that runs the writ in
:36:20. > :36:25.the Middle East. Russia is as important as it is. It is engaging
:36:26. > :36:30.with Saudi Arabia and has mended fences with Turkey. Syria is the
:36:31. > :36:36.place from which it can launch its message that it is a big player in
:36:37. > :36:41.the Middle East. Russia wants the West to understand that this isn't a
:36:42. > :36:45.country that was dismembered after the end of the Soviet Union and is
:36:46. > :36:51.now a week. It is back, and it is strong. That is an important
:36:52. > :36:56.message. Looking at the economy It is in recession. GDP has been
:36:57. > :37:01.falling, partly because of the price of oil. It is highly dependent on
:37:02. > :37:06.hydrocarbons, and is expected to fall again. Its people are falling
:37:07. > :37:12.again. People don't realise how small the Russian economy is. Its
:37:13. > :37:17.GDP is about the size of Italy's. It is smaller than the UK economy.
:37:18. > :37:27.Bigger than it was 15 or 20 years ago. But so is Britain's does it
:37:28. > :37:33.help to take people's mind of this? A huge shock to the Russian economy
:37:34. > :37:38.was a drop in the price of oil and a price of gas. A drop in the price of
:37:39. > :37:43.the ruble as well. This is hurting the people of Russia. On the one
:37:44. > :37:48.hand, it is the war in Syria, which is very important for Russia to sort
:37:49. > :37:56.out that part of the world and dispensed terrorists who might be
:37:57. > :38:01.danger to -- is dangerous to Russia. But he had also has presidential
:38:02. > :38:05.election is going up. They are supposed to be 2018, but some feel
:38:06. > :38:10.he will bring them forward to 2 17, because the economy is not doing so
:38:11. > :38:12.well. But you need a good story for the Russian people. Thank you very
:38:13. > :38:14.much. Hello, I'm Martyn Oates.
:38:15. > :38:26.in Scotland who leave us now Coming up on the Sunday Polhtics
:38:27. > :38:28.in the South West... There'll be no more fish in the sea
:38:29. > :38:32.post-Brexit, but will our fhshermen And for the next twenty minttes
:38:33. > :38:39.I'm joined by the North Cornwall MP Scott Mann and by Exeter's Ben
:38:40. > :38:41.Bradshaw. This week, in a heated
:38:42. > :38:45.debate at Westminster, Devon MPs discussed the cuts
:38:46. > :38:48.to services being proposed to stave off the financial crisis
:38:49. > :38:51.in the county's health servhces Here's a taste from the Torridge
:38:52. > :38:55.and West Devon MP Geoffrey Cox. Until the deficit is addressed,
:38:56. > :38:58.until there is fair funding for rural health services,
:38:59. > :39:03.we will not believe the asstrances that come from the well-meaning
:39:04. > :39:05.administrators that our health Scott, you're the North Cornwall MP
:39:06. > :39:12.next door to North Devon. I guess a lot of your consthtuents
:39:13. > :39:15.actually go to places like North Devon District Hospital,
:39:16. > :39:18.which is potentially in the Many of my constituents frol Bude
:39:19. > :39:24.and Launce do go across the border What I would say is I understand
:39:25. > :39:28.Devon's part of this review process to process
:39:29. > :39:32.with Cumbria and Essex, This is to tackle the huge
:39:33. > :39:35.financial challenge. They're trying to look at a much
:39:36. > :39:39.more creative way of doing what they're doing and I thhnk
:39:40. > :39:42.we tend to focus so much of our efforts on the second phase,
:39:43. > :39:44.the General Hospital phase, when we should be looking at helping
:39:45. > :39:47.GPs to maintain people living From my point of view,
:39:48. > :39:56.I think the best bed for anxbody is the bed that they actually sleep
:39:57. > :40:00.in every night and if we can provide health care that supports
:40:01. > :40:03.them to go back into their own home, I think that would probably
:40:04. > :40:05.be beneficial. Ben, you sit on the health
:40:06. > :40:06.select committee. A lot of the Conservative MPs
:40:07. > :40:09.there were moaning about money and there not being enough loney
:40:10. > :40:12.for health in the south-west. You were addressing a simil`r theme
:40:13. > :40:15.on the select committee on the same I thought the strength
:40:16. > :40:18.and the tone of the criticism from the Conservative MPs w`s really
:40:19. > :40:21.very striking and at the very same time as they were having th`t
:40:22. > :40:24.debate, Sarah Wollaston, the Totnes MP and I were grhlling
:40:25. > :40:26.the Health Secretary and Simon Stephens and Therdsa May
:40:27. > :40:29.made quite clear this week there's not going to be any more money
:40:30. > :40:32.for the NHS and Simon Stephdns, the head of the NHS said th`t
:40:33. > :40:35.for the first time in the NHS's history, funding
:40:36. > :40:37.is falling per head. Some of the changes proposed
:40:38. > :40:39.in Devon could make sense. It does make sense to move resources
:40:40. > :40:42.from beds and community hospitals to give more support for people
:40:43. > :40:45.in their homes but when sochal care has already been cut to the bone
:40:46. > :40:49.and we need really strong gtarantees that that money is going to
:40:50. > :40:51.be there. Well, regular viewers of thhs
:40:52. > :40:55.programme will be very familiar with the trials and tribulations
:40:56. > :40:57.of trying to roll out superfast broadband in rural
:40:58. > :40:59.Devon and Somerset. The two counties are the only part
:41:00. > :41:02.of the country which still haven't signed up a contractor to mdet
:41:03. > :41:05.the government's pledge of delivering 95% coverage
:41:06. > :41:08.by the end of next year, making delivery of that pledge,
:41:09. > :41:11.I would think, unlikely. When the deal collapsed,
:41:12. > :41:13.I spoke to the man in He said dissatisfaction with BT s
:41:14. > :41:18.performance in the first ph`se of the roll-out was one reason
:41:19. > :41:22.they weren't hired again. Ultimately, we have to go
:41:23. > :41:25.for good value for money We can't just give it to BT as has
:41:26. > :41:33.been suggested and hope They have proved to us
:41:34. > :41:37.that they couldn't deliver so we had no alternative but to step
:41:38. > :41:39.away at that point. Eight months on we can reve`l that
:41:40. > :41:42.MPs in Devon and Somerset h`ve now written to BT following reports
:41:43. > :41:44.that its commercial roll-out of superfast broadband is shx months
:41:45. > :41:48.behind schedule in the two counties. That means around 20,000 fewer homes
:41:49. > :41:52.and businesses will be conndcted by the end of December this year
:41:53. > :41:54.than BT had promised the cotncils. Let's see if we can download
:41:55. > :42:07.the Sunday politics South Wdst show. To show me how slow the Intdrnet
:42:08. > :42:10.speeds are at his house in East Devon, Rod's trying
:42:11. > :42:14.to download an episode of the Sunday He's only getting speeds
:42:15. > :42:20.of 0.42 megabits, so this The problem seems to be that
:42:21. > :42:27.Rod's been connected to a broadband cabinet,
:42:28. > :42:30.which is six and a half It's terribly frustrating
:42:31. > :42:36.because things that are norlal, that people do, like iPlayer
:42:37. > :42:40.and all the other things th`t people So, Jenny, this is cabinet,
:42:41. > :42:47.also number 11, also connected What's even more annoying for Rod
:42:48. > :42:52.is that he could get much bdtter Internet access if he was
:42:53. > :42:56.connected to this cabinet. It's just a few yards
:42:57. > :42:59.from his house. Some new properties nearby
:43:00. > :43:03.are connected from it, Well, BT say it's, they use these
:43:04. > :43:12.two words, policy and engindering. For some reason, they
:43:13. > :43:15.don't want to do it. Rod's connection is
:43:16. > :43:22.subsidised by the taxpayer. In this case by connecting
:43:23. > :43:25.Devon and Somerset. That's a partnership
:43:26. > :43:28.between councils and broadb`nd providers, which decides
:43:29. > :43:33.where to spend the public money A target for 90% of households
:43:34. > :43:36.to get access to superfast broadband But that is heavily dependent on BT
:43:37. > :43:41.meeting an obligation to deliver And we understand BT's commdrcially
:43:42. > :43:46.viable connections are six This could mean approximately 2 ,000
:43:47. > :43:58.fewer homes and businesses than councillors had been promised
:43:59. > :44:01.will be connected at This is very much our
:44:02. > :44:04.infrastructure. This is what is going to drhve
:44:05. > :44:08.the economy in our areas and it is so annoying when we put
:44:09. > :44:12.a lot of public money into ht, councils, private money,
:44:13. > :44:14.plus government money This village is one of thosd that
:44:15. > :44:20.had been stuck between a rock Not in the publicly funded scheme
:44:21. > :44:24.and told by BT that broadband But now another company
:44:25. > :44:29.is about to make a go of it. This week, a company called
:44:30. > :44:43.Gigacare has announced This week, a company called Gigacare
:44:44. > :44:45.has announced -- Gigaclear. a service to this area and ht
:44:46. > :44:50.will be doing so without It's even promising residents that
:44:51. > :44:54.they'll be able to download a movie It is welcome news for this
:44:55. > :44:57.holiday cottage business. It's been losing customers
:44:58. > :44:59.because they can't use It's going to have a massivd impact
:45:00. > :45:06.on our business and I know ht's going to have an impact on other
:45:07. > :45:09.businesses as well. Ah, Jenny, it looks
:45:10. > :45:11.as if it hasn't downloaded. Meanwhile, back in East Devon,
:45:12. > :45:13.Rod would love a company like Gigaclear to help him out
:45:14. > :45:16.but he feels it's unlikely that a smaller provider would be
:45:17. > :45:20.interested in setting up in his area because most of his village do have
:45:21. > :45:22.superfast broadband. Unfortunately, he is among 20
:45:23. > :45:30.properties that are missing out Well, BT declined our invit`tion
:45:31. > :45:34.to join us to discuss this, but the company has
:45:35. > :45:36.provided a statement. It didn't deny there were ddlays,
:45:37. > :45:39.but said BT had always made it clear that any early estimates of expected
:45:40. > :45:43.commercial coverage, made several years ago,
:45:44. > :45:47.were part of an outline plan, which was subject to detaildd
:45:48. > :45:49.planning and survey. It said national commitments made
:45:50. > :45:51.by BT on its commercial fibre broadband programme had
:45:52. > :45:55.been achieved early. In response to the case of Lr Boyce,
:45:56. > :45:58.BT said it was not unusual for a small number of premises
:45:59. > :46:01.connected to an upgraded cabinet not to benefit
:46:02. > :46:05.from superfast speeds. Well, one man who did
:46:06. > :46:06.accept our invitation to the programme is the councillor
:46:07. > :46:09.in charge of the Welcome back to the programle,
:46:10. > :46:12.David. Now, the last time we were talking
:46:13. > :46:18.about broadband, we were talking about the problems with phase two,
:46:19. > :46:22.which obviously you acknowlddge but I do remember you saying at that
:46:23. > :46:25.point the good news was that phase That doesn't really look
:46:26. > :46:31.like the case now, does it? As far as the intervention
:46:32. > :46:34.programme is concerned, as far as connecting Devon
:46:35. > :46:36.and Somerset is concerned, But just to be clear,
:46:37. > :46:42.you're not going to meet thhs Overall, the programme we understand
:46:43. > :46:49.now is not going to meet thd 90 but the bit that is being stbsidised
:46:50. > :46:53.by the government, the intervention part that we have been responsible
:46:54. > :47:02.for will meet its targets. What we are waiting to hear now
:47:03. > :47:06.is how far short of their commercial targets BT are actually going to be
:47:07. > :47:09.and what that will mean in terms of percentage points but we mustn't
:47:10. > :47:12.lose sight of the fact that the public subsidy,
:47:13. > :47:15.the bit subsidised by you and I that is on target, as indeed
:47:16. > :47:18.is the procurement that we spoke So, we are making progress
:47:19. > :47:21.but naturally on behalf of the consumers, I'm
:47:22. > :47:27.disappointed that BT aren't going to meet
:47:28. > :47:28.their commercial obligations. Because these targets,
:47:29. > :47:30.these pledges were made, the councils have been quitd clear
:47:31. > :47:33.about that, the government have been You were tasked with
:47:34. > :47:37.delivering this target. The way you chose to do
:47:38. > :47:40.that was via BT but the point Well, that's correct
:47:41. > :47:47.and the targets that we werd set, our part of the programme, was based
:47:48. > :47:50.upon the numbers provided bx BT We now understand that BT
:47:51. > :48:04.are going to meet those targets, those numbers
:48:05. > :48:07.that they originally put forward. That is disappointing
:48:08. > :48:09.but it doesn't take away from the success of the programme,
:48:10. > :48:12.the success of the public stbsidy and it doesn't take away
:48:13. > :48:14.from the importance of carrxing on and making sure we get
:48:15. > :48:16.connectivity out to the rest of Devon and Somerset
:48:17. > :48:18.as quickly as possible. I absolutely agree and symp`thise
:48:19. > :48:21.with the frustration of people who haven't got it yet
:48:22. > :48:23.but the programme continues and we are waiting in very positive
:48:24. > :48:26.anticipation of the results Ben, you're a Devon MP
:48:27. > :48:29.though I guess Exeter Well, we've got pretty serious gaps
:48:30. > :48:34.in places like Marsh Barton, which is a very important
:48:35. > :48:36.industrial estate. Look, this is a pretty
:48:37. > :48:38.scandalous situation. We were promised 90% coverage
:48:39. > :48:41.by the end of this year. There's no way we're
:48:42. > :48:44.going to make that up. You know, there was clearly
:48:45. > :48:46.something wrong If BT can't be forced to deliver
:48:47. > :48:50.this or at least penalised for not delivering it on time then
:48:51. > :48:52.there was something wrong There have been a couple of very
:48:53. > :48:56.critical select committee rdports One recommending they be split off
:48:57. > :49:00.from Open Reach, which I thhnk Ofcom They've given them a last chance
:49:01. > :49:04.on that and one said that they were missing 1000 visits
:49:05. > :49:06.a week in terms of the implementation of broadband,
:49:07. > :49:08.so there's clearly something I feel very sorry for
:49:09. > :49:12.the councillors that have h`d to deal with this at a local level
:49:13. > :49:15.but I think in the end, the buck has to stop
:49:16. > :49:17.with the government. David, have you got any way
:49:18. > :49:20.of penalising BT for this or indeed making them actually achievd this
:49:21. > :49:23.target in the next few months? Well, I think the important thing
:49:24. > :49:26.is that we continue a constructive relationship with BT,
:49:27. > :49:33.Holborn to account. We're waiting to see
:49:34. > :49:36.the actual numbers. We don't know what the
:49:37. > :49:38.percentage points are. There's talk of their being a number
:49:39. > :49:41.of months behind. This will inevitably
:49:42. > :49:42.run into the delivery We need to put pressure on BT
:49:43. > :49:47.but at the same time make stre I wanted to talk about that
:49:48. > :49:51.because I think the last tile we spoke you weren't prepardd
:49:52. > :49:54.or able to confirm that the phase two target, 95% within the next
:49:55. > :49:56.year, would be made. That's going to happen now, is it,
:49:57. > :49:59.with these latest convocations? I don't think you're in a position
:50:00. > :50:01.to say that. The procurement has closed xet,
:50:02. > :50:04.so we don't know the results. So you haven't got
:50:05. > :50:06.the contracter in place yet? Since we spoke, the level
:50:07. > :50:10.of interest in being a provider under phase two
:50:11. > :50:13.has been significant. I have every anticipation
:50:14. > :50:17.that we might well over delhver which is good news but it doesn t
:50:18. > :50:20.make up for BT's shortfall We have to bear in mind that
:50:21. > :50:24.whatever we do as an intervdntion programme, were not allowed by law
:50:25. > :50:42.to interfere in the commerchal area, so that the end of the day BT just
:50:43. > :50:46.have too deliver and we've got to keep the pressure on thel,
:50:47. > :50:49.government has to keep the pressure It's well-known that Cornwall got
:50:50. > :50:55.a lot of European funding to roll out superfast broadband but people
:50:56. > :50:57.repeatedly say, in theory, that's right, but we've
:50:58. > :50:59.still got problems. You've got a very
:51:00. > :51:00.rural constituency. If you're in that 5%
:51:01. > :51:03.of people that don't get it, that's a particular problem
:51:04. > :51:05.so I wanted to try and get involved so I got involved
:51:06. > :51:08.in the Digital Economy Bill, which is currently going
:51:09. > :51:10.through Parliament at the moment and we're trying to implement a 10
:51:11. > :51:13.megabits speed over the course of the whole country
:51:14. > :51:15.as a universal service obligation, so the emphasis will be
:51:16. > :51:17.on organisations like BT and if they don't deliver,
:51:18. > :51:20.we're going to give Ofcom the ability to step in and test
:51:21. > :51:23.people's signals on the doorstep, not at the cabinet,
:51:24. > :51:24.but on the doorstep, so that they are able to thdn
:51:25. > :51:27.penalise the contractor. OK, we're going to have
:51:28. > :51:29.to leave it there. David, thank you very much once
:51:30. > :51:32.again and perhaps we'll be talking about your over
:51:33. > :51:33.delivery next time! Plymouth, according to government
:51:34. > :51:38.figures, landed the most fish in England last year and only last
:51:39. > :51:41.week the value of fish sold at Brixham market surpassed
:51:42. > :51:43.the million pound mark But many fishermen feel the industry
:51:44. > :51:46.has been hamstrung by Britahn's membership of the EU and ard hoping
:51:47. > :51:49.for a brighter future post-Brexit. Scott tabled a debate on thhs
:51:50. > :51:52.at Westminster a few days ago. We'll be hearing from him and former
:51:53. > :51:55.Fisheries Minister, Ben, This was the day in June
:51:56. > :51:59.that the battle for Brexit When a flotilla of fishing
:52:00. > :52:03.boats travelled up Among them, fishermen
:52:04. > :52:08.from the south-west. Brixham skipper Mike Sharp was one,
:52:09. > :52:12.desperate to be rid of an ET quota The French have 70% of the cod,
:52:13. > :52:19.we have eight. They have 70% of the haddock,
:52:20. > :52:22.we have about seven or eight. And it's every species,
:52:23. > :52:27.so it's not a case of we want more for a bigger quota,
:52:28. > :52:31.we want and equal share of ht and most of the fish
:52:32. > :52:36.is in English waters. We asked marine consultant,
:52:37. > :52:38.Terry Portman, to explain how In the beginning when we johned
:52:39. > :52:43.the CFP, there were And why south-west fishermen feel
:52:44. > :52:47.they got landed with a raw deal Because the emphasis was put
:52:48. > :52:53.on the UK having bigger percentages in what the government of the day
:52:54. > :52:56.thought was the important Most fishermen will welcome
:52:57. > :53:04.the opportunity to have all been The idea that we have a big enough
:53:05. > :53:09.naval fleet to go out and look at the hundreds of fishing
:53:10. > :53:12.boats in our waters every There's a lot to take in so here's
:53:13. > :53:20.a helpful graphic to explain things. Under the Common Fisheries Policy,
:53:21. > :53:22.European fishing fleets are given equal access to EU waters
:53:23. > :53:25.and fishing grounds up to 12 nautical miles from the coasts
:53:26. > :53:28.of EU member states. When the UK leaves the EU,
:53:29. > :53:31.it'll take back control of `n area extending 200 nautical
:53:32. > :53:33.miles from our coast. Or in the case of the channdl,
:53:34. > :53:38.up to the median line. So, it's absolutely possibld
:53:39. > :53:45.that the UK's starting position will be that we have our territorial
:53:46. > :53:49.waters back and the UK has sole The reality is that I'm surd
:53:50. > :53:56.there be a series of negoti`tions and somewhere between that
:53:57. > :53:58.and what we currently have Those who backed the Fishing
:53:59. > :54:04.For Leave campaign are now pushing We have to ensure that the living
:54:05. > :54:11.resources in our waters are available primarily for UK
:54:12. > :54:13.fishermen and that they are managed a lot better
:54:14. > :54:19.than they have been in the past Although poised to slip
:54:20. > :54:22.the shackles of Europe, communities like Brixham know
:54:23. > :54:27.there's a lot to lose. The main problem that everyone
:54:28. > :54:30.is scared of that fishing is so small that we will be traded
:54:31. > :54:38.off but it is not just It's the coastal ports all `round
:54:39. > :54:42.the country, the shipbuilding, According to the government,
:54:43. > :54:45.85% of all UK shellfish was exported The need to maintain a closd trading
:54:46. > :54:55.relationship with the use whll make things get more complicated
:54:56. > :55:01.for ministers trying to hamler out Scott, what about the suggestion
:55:02. > :55:05.we had from a fishermen there and I've heard
:55:06. > :55:07.from other people as well, that in the totality of these Brexit
:55:08. > :55:09.negotiations, relatively sm`ll industries like fishing and indeed
:55:10. > :55:12.farming, as you were debating this week, could actually be
:55:13. > :55:14.the fall guys, ie, you know, if there are prizes to secure,
:55:15. > :55:18.the price going to to be pahd might Well, of course it is small now
:55:19. > :55:22.in the West Country but it I remember growing up and sdeing,
:55:23. > :55:26.you know, fishing communitids that were absolutely thriving
:55:27. > :55:27.along the coastline. To put in another way,
:55:28. > :55:29.somebody from the fishing community was saying,
:55:30. > :55:32.you know, if there is a deb`te about saving passporting rights
:55:33. > :55:34.for the city and conceding something in fishing in response,
:55:35. > :55:36.that might be the option When we entered the European Union,
:55:37. > :55:40.we had to give over our fishing rights as a communal resource
:55:41. > :55:46.and they are historically hours and I think that we should hnvoke
:55:47. > :55:53.the United Nations Law of the Sea and claim our territorial
:55:54. > :55:55.fishing waters back. So, are we talking about gohng
:55:56. > :55:57.to the 200 mile... So, no deal to share any
:55:58. > :56:01.access at all? Well, I think there does nedd to be
:56:02. > :56:04.a discussion about whether xou enter waters but I think the Brithsh
:56:05. > :56:07.government should be in control But presumably, will you sthll think
:56:08. > :56:12.it is important to have this tariff free access for I think
:56:13. > :56:15.it was the 85% of shellfish we sell You will have to give
:56:16. > :56:19.something in return. One of the things that came out
:56:20. > :56:24.of the fishing and farming debate was that we export 40%
:56:25. > :56:27.of our lamb to France. So there does need
:56:28. > :56:29.to be a trade-off. It is a big challenge to achieve
:56:30. > :56:32.that, isn't it, because of the rules Everybody seems to accept that
:56:33. > :56:38.when we entered the then EEC, we got a bad deal in terms
:56:39. > :56:48.of the fishing quota. Yeah, but my worry is we cotld
:56:49. > :56:51.have an even worse when aftdr this process and I think there could be
:56:52. > :56:54.a lot of disappointed Brexit supporting fishermen out
:56:55. > :56:56.there for two reasons. Firstly, as you have just s`id,
:56:57. > :56:59.we rely heavily on exports. The vast majority of our,
:57:00. > :57:01.you know, the biggest catch here and these fantastic record
:57:02. > :57:03.cuttlefish catches in Plymotth and Brixham, go straight
:57:04. > :57:05.to the Italian markets Our crab and lobster goes straight
:57:06. > :57:09.to France and Spain. The very worst thing to happen
:57:10. > :57:11.would be if tariffs The idea that we could unil`terally
:57:12. > :57:16.declare a 200 mile limit with no consequences is,
:57:17. > :57:19.I'm afraid, a pie in the skx. We'd be looking at a place hn a sole
:57:20. > :57:22.war rather than a cod war and the other thing is,
:57:23. > :57:25.the idea that anyone else is going to give us a lot of favours
:57:26. > :57:28.in the negotiation and that a British government
:57:29. > :57:30.is going to prioritise fishhng is, unfortunately, given as you say
:57:31. > :57:32.the importance of much more important areas
:57:33. > :57:35.and sectors for our economy. You know, we've heard a lot
:57:36. > :57:42.from the Labour Party in parliament over the last few weeks abott access
:57:43. > :57:44.to the single market. And from some of your
:57:45. > :57:47.own MPs, on both sides But from my point of view,
:57:48. > :57:52.I think the one thing we nedd to do right now is deliver
:57:53. > :57:55.the will of the British people and I think that, you know,
:57:56. > :57:57.we've seen a lot of questions from Labour members
:57:58. > :57:59.of Parliament around what Brexit Martyn, if we were
:58:00. > :58:05.playing cards right now, I don't think we should be showing
:58:06. > :58:15.everybody their cards either. I think it's important for ts
:58:16. > :58:18.to play as good a hand as we can at the moment
:58:19. > :58:21.for our people in this country. I completely accept that
:58:22. > :58:23.but I'm just not sure it was the will of the Brithsh
:58:24. > :58:26.people to do ourselves OK, we can't pursue the whole
:58:27. > :58:29.single market and Brexit The Transport Secretary prolises
:58:30. > :58:35.the government won't sit by and see the region's railway severed
:58:36. > :58:39.a second time. This is a very crucial link
:58:40. > :58:45.to an important part of our country. Cornwall's Conservative MPs under
:58:46. > :58:48.fire for failing to vote against a new constituency
:58:49. > :58:53.shared with Devon. They completely missed a golden
:58:54. > :58:55.opportunity and I think the people of Cornwall should be
:58:56. > :58:57.pretty upset about. Dartmoor councillors fight
:58:58. > :59:02.to hold their phone boxes. This is situated in a vallex
:59:03. > :59:05.and we have very high sides to the valleys
:59:06. > :59:10.there is no mobile signal. Plymouth MP Oliver Coville lanages
:59:11. > :59:13.to get hedgehogs into a deb`te Local authorities could makd sure
:59:14. > :59:29.they have policies to make sure that they have hedgehog supdr
:59:30. > :59:31.highways and something that And, the pint sized campaigner
:59:32. > :59:35.bringing thousands of locked drains to the attention
:59:36. > :59:37.of Cornwall Council. Scott, you were one of the Cornish
:59:38. > :59:41.MPs who voted against the SNP amendment to oppose the boundary
:59:42. > :59:43.changes, which would see thhs Devon You said a few weeks ago whdn this
:59:44. > :59:49.was announced that you were going to take soundings
:59:50. > :59:51.from your constituents. The truth is, I think that ht
:59:52. > :59:59.would take somebody very spdcial to represent both areas,
:00:00. > :00:05.to represent both youthful `reas. Geoffrey Cox has ruled himsdlf
:00:06. > :00:16.out on the other side Geoffrey Cox has ruled himsdlf
:00:17. > :00:20.out on the other side I'm saying to you that I thhnk
:00:21. > :00:25.it can be done but you have to deal with two local enterprise
:00:26. > :00:26.partnerships and that So there is no issue of a principled
:00:27. > :00:30.stand against it? No one is moving
:00:31. > :00:32.the historic border. This is about whether an MP can do
:00:33. > :00:35.two jobs for two different Scott will have another opportunity
:00:36. > :00:38.to vote against the boundarx changes in November because there's
:00:39. > :00:41.a private members bill that Will you vote against it thdn,
:00:42. > :00:44.Scott? Would I vote against
:00:45. > :00:45.the boundary review then? I would, as I said to you,
:00:46. > :00:48.be taking soundings At the moment the number of e-mails
:00:49. > :00:52.that have been in my inbox `re quite small on this issue but I whll take
:00:53. > :00:56.soundings from the people that It looks as if noises
:00:57. > :01:00.from the Transport Secretarx are that the government
:01:01. > :01:03.will stump up the money We have heard this before
:01:04. > :01:06.and it hasn't happened I'm not an engineer, Martin,
:01:07. > :01:09.but ideally have some concerns I do have some concerns abott moving
:01:10. > :01:13.a railway line from the cliff face into the sea, when it seems
:01:14. > :01:15.the sea is the problem. go ahead with this policy, I know.
:01:16. > :01:27.And now back to Andrew. So, Brexit, airports,
:01:28. > :01:49.Calais and the chances With what Rory Stewart was saying
:01:50. > :01:52.there, it is clear that Islamic State is losing territory in Iraq
:01:53. > :01:59.now, and could come under pressure in Syria as well. It used to control
:02:00. > :02:08.a whole swathe of the coast of Libya, and is now down to a small
:02:09. > :02:11.area of Sirte in Libya. But curiously, it could make them more
:02:12. > :02:16.dangerous here if they are being driven out of the Maghreb and the
:02:17. > :02:21.Levant, they could be more dangerous here. Discuss. That was a very
:02:22. > :02:26.interesting admission from a government minister, of all people,
:02:27. > :02:33.and a well-informed one. Chasing Isis around the Middle East is
:02:34. > :02:37.about... Like chasing Al-Qaeda around Afghanistan and Pakistan You
:02:38. > :02:46.smash them somewhere, and they pop up somewhere else. He is right to
:02:47. > :02:57.warn that these guys will go somewhere. And it may well be, in
:02:58. > :03:03.Sirte, for example, across the magic oration -- across the Mediterranean
:03:04. > :03:06.into Italy. A lot of the foreign fighters in Mosul have already gone,
:03:07. > :03:14.we heard, which raises the question, to where? I think it is quite right
:03:15. > :03:19.for government ministers to warn that it might have repercussions
:03:20. > :03:24.here. We have been involved in this, with full public consent, as far as
:03:25. > :03:28.we can tell. If it doesn't happen, if there are horrors and outrages
:03:29. > :03:35.here and in the rest of Europe, that's fine. If it does happen, at
:03:36. > :03:43.least the government is prepared. We knew surprised about how categorical
:03:44. > :03:49.Nia Griffith was? She was categorical about support for the
:03:50. > :03:56.Allied action in Iraq, and categorical about Russia. So much so
:03:57. > :04:00.that perhaps written should take tougher sanctions on its own, even
:04:01. > :04:05.if it can't get the Europeans to fall in line. I found that
:04:06. > :04:10.interesting. I was surprised by that. Tom may be right that Rory
:04:11. > :04:15.said more than perhaps he was intending, but I thought that some
:04:16. > :04:20.of what she said sounded politically imprudent in the current context of
:04:21. > :04:24.the Labour Party. I'm not sure she cleared those lines with the Labour
:04:25. > :04:30.office. I'm not sure she and Jeremy are in the same place about it. I'm
:04:31. > :04:33.not sure there is that much leadership. People at the moment get
:04:34. > :04:38.out there and say what they think it's right for the party. She
:04:39. > :04:44.sounded dead right to me. Whether it is ill-advised or not, people should
:04:45. > :04:50.answer... I want to move on, because Brexit never goes away. This week we
:04:51. > :04:54.saw Hilary Benn, former Shadow Foreign Secretary. He is going to be
:04:55. > :04:58.the chair of the select committee in the Commons which will monitor the
:04:59. > :05:01.Department for Brexit. All sorts of people will be coming to give
:05:02. > :05:05.testimony and so one. Let's hear what he told Andrew Marr.
:05:06. > :05:08.I think it will be very important for the government to indicate that
:05:09. > :05:11.if it is not possible within the two years provided for by Article 5
:05:12. > :05:14.to negotiate both our withdrawal agreement and a new trading
:05:15. > :05:15.relationship, market access, including for services,
:05:16. > :05:17.80% of our economy, million jobs, in financial services,
:05:18. > :05:20.that it should tell the House of Commons that it will seek
:05:21. > :05:26.a transitional arrangement with the European Union.
:05:27. > :05:34.If the deal is not done at the end of the two-year Article 50 process,
:05:35. > :05:40.would the government go for an interim agreement, or would it fall
:05:41. > :05:45.back on WTO, World Trade Organisation, Rawls? My
:05:46. > :05:48.understanding is the article 15 negotiation doesn't specifically
:05:49. > :05:53.include what Britain's future trading relationship with the EU
:05:54. > :05:58.would be. It is perfectly possible that Article 50 could be triggered,
:05:59. > :06:03.and after two years we don't have a trade deal, but the trade deal
:06:04. > :06:14.negotiations are ongoing when we are outside the EU. But the trade deal
:06:15. > :06:16.negotiations are the most important thing. If Article 50 doesn't cover
:06:17. > :06:19.it, what is it about? Absolutely essential. The trade deal with
:06:20. > :06:27.Canada has taken nine years, and now it looks like it is fading, because
:06:28. > :06:36.of the Walloons. Just one small part of the country. If you cannot do a
:06:37. > :06:39.free-trade deal with Canada, a progressive, social Democratic
:06:40. > :06:44.Canada, who can the EU do a trade deal with? You would think it would
:06:45. > :06:47.be easy with us, because we have all of the level playing field
:06:48. > :06:53.agreements in place. You would hope it would be easier, but it may not
:06:54. > :06:58.be, because in the end, it will hinge on the single market and if we
:06:59. > :07:07.are in or out. If we are in, can we have a small break on immigration?
:07:08. > :07:09.It looks like not. What is interesting about the opinion polls
:07:10. > :07:13.is, in the last two opinion polls there was a significant change in
:07:14. > :07:18.public opinion, where people are now saying they think that actually
:07:19. > :07:22.trade, the economy, the single market is more important than
:07:23. > :07:27.immigration. If it is really true, as the observer is reporting today,
:07:28. > :07:32.that banks are on the move, and in a year's time there could be a
:07:33. > :07:36.significant collapse in the income we get from finance, the income that
:07:37. > :07:47.the Treasury gets, then public opinion might change. They may say,
:07:48. > :07:50.we don't want more immigration, but this isn't a price worth paying
:07:51. > :07:57.Everything tends to be seen through the Brexit lens at the moment.
:07:58. > :08:01.Things are not always as they seem. The Canadian- EU free trade
:08:02. > :08:06.agreement was about increasing free trade between the EU and Canada and
:08:07. > :08:10.therefore subject to the ratification of all members. Any
:08:11. > :08:15.deal we do will not give us the same access we have at the moment. The
:08:16. > :08:22.question is, how much will it be diminished? It may not be subject to
:08:23. > :08:24.the same ratification process. Absolutely right. Another
:08:25. > :08:31.unbelievably technical point that we still don't know is, if we can get
:08:32. > :08:35.this free-trade deal with the EU at the same time as our Brexit talks
:08:36. > :08:44.and deal, the divorce deal as well as the remarriage deal, then one
:08:45. > :08:53.gets signed off by QM V. The trade deal may still need all 28, all 27,
:08:54. > :08:59.including the people from the Walloons. And the MEPs. The majority
:09:00. > :09:03.of parliament. This is exactly why Theresa May would like the
:09:04. > :09:07.transitional deal to push this one deeper. I was surprised to hear
:09:08. > :09:11.Hilary Benn pushing this line this morning. The remainers have been all
:09:12. > :09:16.over the place. They wanted a vote after Article 50 had been triggered
:09:17. > :09:24.about the deal. Then they wanted a vote before Article 50. Now they are
:09:25. > :09:29.talking about a vote before article Article 50 is triggered about a
:09:30. > :09:33.trade deal. They need to make up their minds about what it is they
:09:34. > :09:39.are pushing for, and what their best hope of obstructing Brexit is, and
:09:40. > :09:44.stick with it. Something else we see through the Brexit lens, which isn't
:09:45. > :09:48.always helpful, is Calais. The French bulldozers will move in
:09:49. > :09:53.tomorrow. We will see some pretty disturbing scenes on the TV. We will
:09:54. > :09:57.see some horrible scenes. The government has handled this very
:09:58. > :10:03.badly. Having passed an amendment in April saying we would take something
:10:04. > :10:06.like 3000 children, a lot of those children have disappeared. Save the
:10:07. > :10:10.Children, one of the charities there, are very worried that people
:10:11. > :10:18.traffickers have been in there, and a lot of those children have
:10:19. > :10:22.vanished. We haven't sent social workers in. No preparations have
:10:23. > :10:29.been made what ever. You are raising an interesting point. We don't know
:10:30. > :10:33.how many we are meant to be taking. The huge argument has arisen over
:10:34. > :10:40.what the age is of some of the ones coming in. Is this another problem
:10:41. > :10:45.for the Home Office? To some extent. Didn't Theresa May 's too well to
:10:46. > :10:50.survive six weeks of this? Amber Rudd has been there for three
:10:51. > :10:53.months. It is clear that the Home Office didn't prepare for this. They
:10:54. > :11:01.didn't prepare for the age verification or when it will go It
:11:02. > :11:07.needs to be an perfect. We don't know how many we will take, because
:11:08. > :11:11.the Home Office will not say. I want to talk about airport capacity, but
:11:12. > :11:16.I won't, because I don't think we have anything to say about it until
:11:17. > :11:21.the statement on Tuesday from Transport Minister Grayling. When
:11:22. > :11:24.you look at the polls and see the decision on airport runway expansion
:11:25. > :11:29.being kicked into the long grass for a year, are we heading for an early
:11:30. > :11:34.election next year or not? I think Theresa May will do everything she
:11:35. > :11:41.can to avoid it. If there is an election before 2020, it is bound to
:11:42. > :11:45.be about Europe, and that is a much harder case for her to win than just
:11:46. > :11:49.a question of who is the best Prime Minister. She will have a tough
:11:50. > :11:54.time, because it will be a general election about in or out of the
:11:55. > :11:59.single market. Half of her party will peel away. How do she conduct a
:12:00. > :12:05.general election when the likes of Anna Soubry will not stand on the
:12:06. > :12:14.same platform? It will be difficult. But she may reach such a stalemate
:12:15. > :12:17.that she just calls one. No general election next year because it will
:12:18. > :12:21.split the Tory party. There will be won in 2019 when she cannot get
:12:22. > :12:25.Brexit through the House of Commons. You really can have too much of a
:12:26. > :12:30.good thing. I just want to show a little clip of the former Shadow
:12:31. > :12:34.Chancellor, Ed Balls, from Strictly last night. Let's just watch this.
:12:35. > :12:46.There he is. Where is the hand? That is the
:12:47. > :12:54.worrying bit! We will no longer be saying that Ed Balls is a safe pair
:12:55. > :12:58.of hands! Can we agree on that? Remarkable that he was once the man
:12:59. > :13:06.most feared by David Cameron! Labour leader 2021. He has hit popular
:13:07. > :13:13.culture in the way that many few politicians do. Charm, gusto,
:13:14. > :13:20.bravery, no worries about being embarrassed. All the things that you
:13:21. > :13:22.don't like about being a politician. We have run out of time. You can get
:13:23. > :13:25.it on social media. Jo Coburn will be back
:13:26. > :13:27.with the Daily Politics tomorrow And I'll be back here next
:13:28. > :13:31.Sunday at the same time. Remember if it's Sunday,
:13:32. > :14:04.it's the Sunday Politics. Everyone's living these
:14:05. > :14:07.amazing lives, You're like a...
:14:08. > :14:18.Different person? Delve deeper.
:14:19. > :14:27.Ordinary Lives continues... They have something on me
:14:28. > :14:28.that I can actually remember. They have something on me
:14:29. > :14:32.that I can actually remember. The final chapter between
:14:33. > :14:37.Gibson and Spector.