:00:34. > :00:37.Morning folks - welcome to the Sunday Politics.
:00:38. > :00:40.Theresa May says she'll deliver on Brexit but does that mean leaving
:00:41. > :00:45.the EU's Single Market and the Customs Union?
:00:46. > :00:47.Tory MPs campaign for a commitment from the Prime
:00:48. > :01:00.The Chancellor pledges just over a billion pounds worth of spending
:01:01. > :01:07.on Britain's roads but is that it or will there be
:01:08. > :01:13.Their last leader was just 18 days in the job.
:01:14. > :01:15.In the South West: A crisis in social care.
:01:16. > :01:18.Is the system failing to safeguard residents?
:01:19. > :01:26.Richmond Park based on the skies? Or is it about a bigger conflict in
:01:27. > :01:35.Europe? And with me - as always -
:01:36. > :01:38.and, no, these three aren't doing the Mannequin challenge -
:01:39. > :01:43.it's our dynamic, demonstrative dazzling political panel -
:01:44. > :01:45.Helen Lewis, Isabel Oakeshott and Tom Newton Dunn they'll also be
:01:46. > :01:48.tweeting throughout the programme. First this morning -
:01:49. > :01:53.Theresa May has said "Brexit means Brexit" -
:01:54. > :01:56.but can the Prime Minister - who was on the Remain side
:01:57. > :01:59.of argument during the referendum Well, Leave-supporting Tory
:02:00. > :02:07.MPs are re-launching the "European Research Group" this
:02:08. > :02:22.morning to keep Mrs May's feet Are you worried that you cannot
:02:23. > :02:26.trust Theresa May until payment to deliver full Brexit was Magellan
:02:27. > :02:31.like I totally trust Theresa May, 100% behind her. She has displayed a
:02:32. > :02:34.massive amount of commitment to making a success of Brexit for the
:02:35. > :02:38.country. We don't know that yet, because
:02:39. > :02:43.nothing has happened. Why, then have you formed a pressure group? We
:02:44. > :02:49.were fed up with the negativity coming out around Brexit. I feel
:02:50. > :02:53.positive about the opportunities we face, and we are a group to provide
:02:54. > :02:59.suggestions. Who do you have in mind when you talk about negativity the
:03:00. > :03:05.Chancellor? No, from the Lib Dems, for example, from Labour MPs. This
:03:06. > :03:10.is a pressure group for leaving membership of the single market and
:03:11. > :03:15.customs union, correct? That is what we are proposing. It has a purpose
:03:16. > :03:19.other than just to combat negativity. When it comes to
:03:20. > :03:23.membership of the single market and the customs union, can you tell us
:03:24. > :03:27.what Government policy is towards both or either? Rightly, the
:03:28. > :03:30.Government hasn't made the position clear, and I think that is the right
:03:31. > :03:38.approach, because we don't want to review our negotiating hand. What
:03:39. > :03:42.we're saying... I'm not asking what you are saying. Can you tell us what
:03:43. > :03:47.Government policy is towards membership of these institutions?
:03:48. > :03:51.The Government wants to make sure British businesses have the right to
:03:52. > :03:55.trade with EU partners, to forge new trade deals with the rest of the
:03:56. > :04:01.world. We hope to Reza may speak at Mansion house this week. -- we had
:04:02. > :04:06.Theresa May speak at Mansion house this week. She has been clear,
:04:07. > :04:10.saying it was not a binary choice. And she's right. Let's run that
:04:11. > :04:16.tape, because I want to pick up on what she did say. This is what she
:04:17. > :04:19.had to say about the customs union at Prime Minister's Question Time.
:04:20. > :04:24.On the whole question of the customs union, trading relationships that we
:04:25. > :04:29.have with the European Union and other parts of the world once we
:04:30. > :04:39.have left the European Union, we are preparing carefully for the formal
:04:40. > :04:42.negotiations. We are preparing carefully for the formal
:04:43. > :04:46.negotiations. We want to ensure we have the best possible trading deal
:04:47. > :04:51.with the EU once we have left. Do you know what she means when she
:04:52. > :04:56.says being in the customs union is not a binary choice? I think she's
:04:57. > :04:59.right when she says that. At the moment, and you know this, as long
:05:00. > :05:04.as we are in the customs union, we cannot set our own tariffs or rules,
:05:05. > :05:09.cannot have a free trade agreement with the US or China. We need to
:05:10. > :05:13.leave a customs union to do that. Binary means either you are in or
:05:14. > :05:17.you are out, self which is it? We still want to trade with the EU and
:05:18. > :05:23.I think we can have a free trade agreement with the EU. That is a
:05:24. > :05:28.separate matter, and it has to do with the single market. What about
:05:29. > :05:33.the customs union? We need to leave the customs union. We do it and
:05:34. > :05:37.properly. That is how to get the most out of this opportunity. Summit
:05:38. > :05:42.is a binary choice? The Prime Minister is right when she says it's
:05:43. > :05:50.not a binary choice. Both can't be right. We can leave the customs
:05:51. > :05:54.union, get their benefits, and have a free trade agreement with zero
:05:55. > :05:58.tariffs with the EU. So it is a binary choice an either be stale
:05:59. > :06:05.really. Yellow like I am saying the Prime Minister is right when she
:06:06. > :06:12.says it is not a binary choice. -- I am saying the Prime Minister is
:06:13. > :06:16.right. We need clarity. Youth had said -- you have said it is a binary
:06:17. > :06:21.choice. We need to leave the constraints of the customs union. It
:06:22. > :06:25.pushes up prices. The EU is not securing the right trade deals, and
:06:26. > :06:28.if we want to make the most of it, we need to get out there and get
:06:29. > :06:33.some deals going. Do you accept that if we remain in the customs union,
:06:34. > :06:50.we cannot do our own free-trade deals? Yellow right 100%. That is
:06:51. > :06:53.why we have to leave. -- 100%. Do you accept that if we leave the
:06:54. > :06:58.customs union but stay with substantial access, I don't say
:06:59. > :07:01.membership, but substantial access to the single market, that goods
:07:02. > :07:06.going from this country to the single market because we're no
:07:07. > :07:12.longer in the union will be subject to complicated rules of origin
:07:13. > :07:18.regulations, which could cost business ?13 billion a year? I would
:07:19. > :07:22.like to see a free-trade agreement between the UK and the EU. Look at
:07:23. > :07:26.the Canadian deal. I give you that, but if we're not in the customs
:07:27. > :07:31.union, things that we bring in on our own tariffs once we've left we
:07:32. > :07:35.can't just export again willy-nilly to the EU. They will demand to see
:07:36. > :07:42.rules of origin. Norway has to do that at the moment and it is highly
:07:43. > :07:45.complicated expensive. I think if we agree a particular arrangement as
:07:46. > :07:48.part of this agreement with the EU, we can reach an agreement on that
:07:49. > :07:54.which sets a lower standard, which sets a different level of tariffs,
:07:55. > :07:59.which protects some of our industries. Let's suppose we have
:08:00. > :08:05.pretty much free trade with the EU but we are out of the customs union,
:08:06. > :08:14.and let's suppose that the European Union has a 20% tariff on Japanese
:08:15. > :08:17.whisky and we decide to have a % tariff - what then happens to the
:08:18. > :08:22.whisky that comes into Britain and goes on to the EU? The EU will not
:08:23. > :08:30.let that in. That will be part of the negotiation. I think there is a
:08:31. > :08:33.huge benefit for external operators. Every bottle of Japanese whisky
:08:34. > :08:39.they will have to work out the rules of origin. There have been studies
:08:40. > :08:42.that show there is a potential for 50% increase in global product if we
:08:43. > :08:47.leave. We're losing the benefits of free trade. I understand, I am
:08:48. > :08:53.asking for your particular view Thank you for that.
:08:54. > :08:58.Is it not surprising Mr Hannan could not bring himself to say we would
:08:59. > :09:04.leave the customs union? It is messy. The reason there is this new
:09:05. > :09:07.group of Tory MPs signing up to a campaign to make sure we get a
:09:08. > :09:13.genuine Brexit is because there is this vacuum. It is being filled with
:09:14. > :09:19.all sorts of briefing from the other side. There is a real risk in the
:09:20. > :09:23.minds of Brexit supporting MPs that the remaining side are going to try
:09:24. > :09:28.to hijack the process, not only through the Supreme Court action,
:09:29. > :09:33.which I think most Brexit MPs seem to accept the appeal will fail, but
:09:34. > :09:38.further down the line, through amendments to the great repeal bill.
:09:39. > :09:42.This is a pressure group to try to hold the Prime Minister to account.
:09:43. > :09:46.There is plenty of pressure on the Prime Minister effectively to stay
:09:47. > :09:52.in the single market and the customs union, and if you do both of these
:09:53. > :09:56.things, de facto, you have stayed in the EU. She is in a difficult
:09:57. > :10:00.position because there is no good faith assumption about what Theresa
:10:01. > :10:05.May wants because she was a Remainer. There is all this talk
:10:06. > :10:09.about a transitional arrangement, but she can't sell that as someone
:10:10. > :10:14.who voted to remain. The way Isabel has characterised it is interesting.
:10:15. > :10:20.There is a betrayal narrative. Everyone is looking to say that she
:10:21. > :10:23.has betrayed the true Brexit. Since the Government cannot give a clear
:10:24. > :10:29.indication of what it once in terms of the customs union, which sets
:10:30. > :10:34.external tariffs, or the single market, which is the free movement
:10:35. > :10:41.of people, capital, goods and services, others are filling this
:10:42. > :10:44.vacuum. Right. The reasons they can't do this are, first, they don't
:10:45. > :10:49.know if they can get it or not. We saw this with the renegotiation the
:10:50. > :11:00.last Prime Minister. What are they hoping to get? The world on a stick,
:11:01. > :11:05.to get cake and eat it. You go into a negotiation saying, let's see what
:11:06. > :11:08.we can get in total. Are they going to ask the membership of the single
:11:09. > :11:20.market? Yellow I think they will ask for a free trade agreement involving
:11:21. > :11:25.everything. You can demand what you want. The question is, do they stand
:11:26. > :11:32.a cat's chance in hell of getting it? They don't know. Welcome back.
:11:33. > :11:37.We will be back, believe me. It is 150 day since we found out the UK
:11:38. > :11:42.had voted to leave the EU, but as we have heard, remain and leave
:11:43. > :11:44.campaigners continue to battle about what type of relationship we should
:11:45. > :11:52.have with the EU after exit. Leave campaigners say
:11:53. > :11:55.that leaving the EU also means quitting
:11:56. > :11:57.Single Market, the internal European trading bloc that includes free
:11:58. > :11:59.movement of goods, services, capital and people.
:12:00. > :12:01.They point to evidence that leading Leave supporting
:12:02. > :12:03.politicians ruled out staying in the Single Market during
:12:04. > :12:06.Andrea Leadsom, for example, said it would almost
:12:07. > :12:15.certainly be the case that the UK would come out of the Single Market.
:12:16. > :12:19.When asked for a yes or no on whether the UK should stay
:12:20. > :12:23."No, we should be outside the Single Market."
:12:24. > :12:25.And Boris Johnson agreed with his erstwhile ally, saying, "Michael
:12:26. > :12:27.Gove was absolutely right to say the UK
:12:28. > :12:39.They've released a video of clips of Leave campaigners speaking before
:12:40. > :12:41.the referendum apparently saying that the UK should stay in the
:12:42. > :12:44.Nigel Farage, for example, once said that on leaving
:12:45. > :12:47.the EU we'll find ourselves part of the European economic area
:12:48. > :12:50.Owen Paterson, the former Environment Secretary,
:12:51. > :12:56.once made the startling statement that only a madman would actually
:12:57. > :13:01.And Matthew Elliott, the Vote Leave chief, said
:13:02. > :13:04.that the Norwegian option would be initially attractive for some
:13:05. > :13:08.But do these quotes create an accurate picture of what
:13:09. > :13:15.To cast some light on where these quotes came from we're
:13:16. > :13:18.joined by James McGrory, director of Open Britain
:13:19. > :13:31.Welcome to the Sunday Politics. . Your video has statements from leave
:13:32. > :13:34.campaigners hinting they want to stay in the single market. How many
:13:35. > :13:43.were made during the referendum campaign? I don't know. Not one was
:13:44. > :13:47.made during the referendum campaign. Indeed, only two of the 12
:13:48. > :13:50.statements were recorded after Royal assent had been given to the
:13:51. > :13:55.referendum. Only one was made this year before the referendum.
:13:56. > :13:59.Throughout the campaign am a leave campaigners lauded the Norwegian
:14:00. > :14:05.model. Norway are in the single market but not in the EU. They went
:14:06. > :14:07.out of their way not to be pinned down on a specific trading
:14:08. > :14:11.arrangement they want to see in the future with Europe, when the
:14:12. > :14:16.Treasury model the different models it was the EEA or a free-trade
:14:17. > :14:20.agreement. I understand. Does it not undermine your case that none of the
:14:21. > :14:25.12 statements on your video were made during the campaign itself
:14:26. > :14:29.when people were giving really serious thought to such matters The
:14:30. > :14:33.Leave campaign weren't giving serious thought to such matters
:14:34. > :14:38.They did not set out the future trading model they wanted to see.
:14:39. > :14:42.But you cannot produce a single video with somebody saying we should
:14:43. > :14:47.stay in the single market during the campaign. Daniel Hanna had talked
:14:48. > :14:52.about the Norwegian model as a future option. One comment from
:14:53. > :14:56.Nigel Farage dates back to 2009 when we didn't even know if we would
:14:57. > :15:00.have a referendum or not. Does it not stretch credibility to go back
:15:01. > :15:04.to the time when Gordon Brown was Prime Minister? The overall point
:15:05. > :15:10.stands. It is not supposed to be an exhaustive list of the options.
:15:11. > :15:15.Daniel Hannan, described as the intellectual godfather of the Leave
:15:16. > :15:18.movement is saying that no one is talking about threatening our place
:15:19. > :15:22.in the signal market. I think it's legitimate to point out the Leave
:15:23. > :15:26.campaign never came forward with a credible argument. We have
:15:27. > :15:29.highlighted some of the quotes you picked out from leave campaigners
:15:30. > :15:36.over time. Do you think you have fully encapsulated their arguments
:15:37. > :15:42.accurately? I don't think in a 2nd video you can talk about the full
:15:43. > :15:46.thing. -- a 90-2nd video. Some of them want to seek a free-trade
:15:47. > :15:54.agreement, some to default on to World Trade Organisation tariffs.
:15:55. > :15:56.There is a range of opinion in the Leave campaign. Let's listen to the
:15:57. > :15:58.clip you used on Owen Paterson first.
:15:59. > :16:04.Only a madman would actually leave the market.
:16:05. > :16:09.Only a madman would actually leave the market.
:16:10. > :16:10.It's not the EU which is
:16:11. > :16:14.a political organisation delivering the prosperity and buying our goods.
:16:15. > :16:17.It's the market, it's the members of the market and we'll carry on
:16:18. > :16:20.I mean, are we really suggesting that the
:16:21. > :16:23.economy in the world is not going to come to come
:16:24. > :16:24.to a satisfactory trading arrangement with the EU?
:16:25. > :16:26.Are we going to be like Sudan and North
:16:27. > :16:31.It is ludicrous this idea that we are going to leap off a
:16:32. > :16:44.What he said when he said only a madman would leave Europe, was that
:16:45. > :16:48.we would continue to trade, we would continue to have access. Any country
:16:49. > :16:52.in the world can have access. What the Leave campaign suggested is our
:16:53. > :16:55.trade would continue uninterrupted, they are still at it today, David
:16:56. > :17:00.Davis used the phrase, uninterrupted, from the dispatch box
:17:01. > :17:03.recently. You misrepresented him by saying only a madman would leave the
:17:04. > :17:07.Single Market and stopped it there, because he goes onto say that of
:17:08. > :17:09.course we want Leave in the sense of continuing to have access. I don't
:17:10. > :17:27.think he was about axis, he is talking
:17:28. > :17:30.about membership. He doesn't use the word membership at all. He talks
:17:31. > :17:32.about we are going to carry on trading with them, we will not leap
:17:33. > :17:35.off, we will carry on trading. Anybody can trade with the EU, it's
:17:36. > :17:38.the terms on which you trade that is important and leave campaigners and
:17:39. > :17:40.Patterson is an example of this saying we can trade as we do now,
:17:41. > :17:42.the government saying we can trade without bureaucratic impediments and
:17:43. > :17:45.tariff free. The viewers will make up their mind. Let's listen to the
:17:46. > :17:46.views of Matthew Elliott, the Chief Executive of Vote Leave.
:17:47. > :17:49.When it comes to the Norwegian option, the EEA option, I think that
:17:50. > :17:51.it might be initially attractive for some business people.
:17:52. > :17:56.So you then cut him off there but this is what he went on to say in
:17:57. > :17:59.the same clip, let's listen to that. When it comes to the Norwegian
:18:00. > :18:02.option, the EEA option, I think that it might be initially attractive
:18:03. > :18:04.for some business people. But then again for voters
:18:05. > :18:08.who are increasingly concerned about migration in the EU,
:18:09. > :18:11.they will be very concerned that it allows free movement
:18:12. > :18:23.of people to continue. Again, you have misrepresented him.
:18:24. > :18:25.He said the Norwegian model has attractions but there are real
:18:26. > :18:29.problems if it involves free movement of people, which it does.
:18:30. > :18:33.But you cut that bit out. I challenge anyone to represent them
:18:34. > :18:36.accurately because they took such a range of opinions. I don't know what
:18:37. > :18:40.we are supposed to do. You are misrepresenting them. He is saying
:18:41. > :18:45.the Norwegian option is attractive to business, I understand why. It
:18:46. > :18:51.might not be attractive for voters. But then he said if it allowed free
:18:52. > :18:56.movement of people it could be an issue. You took that out. You are
:18:57. > :18:59.saying this is a definitive position. I'm suggesting you are
:19:00. > :19:01.distorting it. This is what you had Mr Farage say.
:19:02. > :19:04.On D+1 we'll find ourselves part of the European economic area
:19:05. > :19:11.This is what he then went on to say in that same clip that you didn t
:19:12. > :19:12.run. There is absolutely
:19:13. > :19:14.nothing to fear in terms of trade from leaving
:19:15. > :19:15.the on D+1 we'll find ourselves part
:19:16. > :19:20.of the European Economic Area and we should use our
:19:21. > :19:29.membership of the EEA as a holding position from which
:19:30. > :19:32.we can negotiate as the European Union's biggest export
:19:33. > :19:35.market in the world, as good a deal, my goodness me,
:19:36. > :19:44.if Switzerland can have one we So there again, he says not that we
:19:45. > :19:49.should stay in the Single Market as a member, but that we stay in the EA
:19:50. > :19:59.as a transition until we negotiate something. -- EEA. This whole clip
:20:00. > :20:03.is online, how would you get away with this distortion? It is not a
:20:04. > :20:06.distortion, the whole point is to point out they do not have a
:20:07. > :20:09.definitive position, he is arguing for membership of the Single Market,
:20:10. > :20:14.for a transitional period. For the transition. How long does that go
:20:15. > :20:17.on, what does he want to then achieve? Not very quickly but he
:20:18. > :20:21.does not say we should stay members of the Single Market and you didn't
:20:22. > :20:24.let people see what he went on to say, you gave the impression he
:20:25. > :20:29.wanted to stay in the one it. It would not be a video then, it would
:20:30. > :20:32.be a seven-week long lecture. They took so many positions, and the idea
:20:33. > :20:36.now that they were clear with people that we should definitely leave the
:20:37. > :20:40.Single Market I think is fictitious. You are trying to make out they all
:20:41. > :20:45.had one position which was to remain members of the one it. You see the
:20:46. > :20:49.full clips that is not what they are saying. We are trying to point out
:20:50. > :20:52.there is no mandate to leave the Single Market. The idea the Leave
:20:53. > :20:55.campaign spoke with unanimity and clarity of purpose and throughout
:20:56. > :21:00.the whole campaign said we will definitely leave the Single Market
:21:01. > :21:03.is not true. That is the whole point of the media. We showed in the
:21:04. > :21:07.montage in the video just before we came on, we said that then Prime
:21:08. > :21:10.Minister, the then Chancellor, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, being
:21:11. > :21:14.categorical that if you vote to leave the EU, you vote to leave
:21:15. > :21:17.membership of the Single Market What bit of that didn't you
:21:18. > :21:20.understand? Under duress they occasionally said they wanted to
:21:21. > :21:27.leave. Some of them wanted to leave the Single Market. All of the other
:21:28. > :21:31.promises they made, whether ?35 million for the NHS, whether a VAT
:21:32. > :21:34.cut on fuel, points-based system. You do not have a single quote of
:21:35. > :21:38.any of these members saying they want to be a member. Daniel Hannan
:21:39. > :21:44.has said consistently that Norway are a part of the Single Market You
:21:45. > :21:46.spend the referendum campaign criticising for Rim misrepresenting
:21:47. > :21:48.and misrepresenting and lying and many thought they did. Having seen
:21:49. > :21:52.this many will conclude that you are the biggest liars. I think it is
:21:53. > :21:55.perfectly reasonable to point out that the Leave campaign did not have
:21:56. > :21:59.a clear position on our future trading relationship with Europe.
:22:00. > :22:03.That is all this video does. It doesn't say we definitely have to
:22:04. > :22:07.stay in the Single Market, it just says they do have a mandate to drag
:22:08. > :22:10.us out of our biggest trading partner.
:22:11. > :22:11.Now people have seen the full quotes in context our viewers will make up
:22:12. > :22:13.their mind. Thank you. Now - voting closes next week
:22:14. > :22:16.in the the Ukip leadership contest. The second Ukip leadership contest
:22:17. > :22:19.this year after the party's first female leader - Diane James -
:22:20. > :22:21.stood down from the role Since then the party's lurched from
:22:22. > :22:24.farce to fiasco. It's a world gripped by uncertainty,
:22:25. > :22:40.split into factions. Yes, 2, because they're
:22:41. > :22:50.having their second Watch as the alpha male,
:22:51. > :22:57.the Ukip leader at Nigel Watch as the alpha male,
:22:58. > :23:00.the Ukip leader Nigel Farage, hands power to the new alpha
:23:01. > :23:02.female Diane James. The European Parliament
:23:03. > :23:16.in Strasbourg, October. Another leading light and possible
:23:17. > :23:19.future leader, the MEP Steven Wolfe,
:23:20. > :23:22.has been laid low after an alleged tussle with a colleague
:23:23. > :23:24.during a meeting. A few days later he is
:23:25. > :23:26.out of hospital and I will be withdrawing my
:23:27. > :23:30.application to become I'm actually withdrawing
:23:31. > :23:34.myself from Ukip. You're resigning from the party
:23:35. > :23:40.I'm resigning with immediate effect. And this week a leaked document
:23:41. > :23:43.suggested the party improperly spent EU funds on political
:23:44. > :23:48.campaigning in the UK. Another headache for whoever takes
:23:49. > :23:55.over the leadership of the pack One contender is Suzanne Evans,
:23:56. > :23:58.a former Tory councillor and was briefly suspended for
:23:59. > :24:06.disloyalty. Also standing, Paul Nuttall,
:24:07. > :24:10.an MEP from Liverpool who has been by Farage's side
:24:11. > :24:15.as his deputy for six years. There's another big beast
:24:16. > :24:17.in the Ukip leadership contest, and I'm told
:24:18. > :24:20.that today he can be spotted He's John Rees-Evans,
:24:21. > :24:25.a businessman and adventurer who is offering members the chance
:24:26. > :24:28.to propose policies via a website We've got really dedicated
:24:29. > :24:42.passionate supporters who feel like they're not really
:24:43. > :24:45.being listened to and are not even Typically what happens
:24:46. > :24:48.is they just basically sit there until six months before
:24:49. > :24:51.a General Election when they are contacted and asked to go out
:24:52. > :24:53.and leaflet and canvas. Even at branch level people feel
:24:54. > :24:55.there is not an adequate flow of communication
:24:56. > :24:57.up-and-down the party. Are you not going to take part in
:24:58. > :25:06.any hustings? He left a hustings saying
:25:07. > :25:10.the contest was an establishment coronation and has
:25:11. > :25:12.made colourful comments in the past. He's in favour of the death penalty
:25:13. > :25:14.for crimes like paedophilia. I think there is a clear
:25:15. > :25:17.will amongst the offences should be dealt with
:25:18. > :25:20.decisively. But again, on an issue like that,
:25:21. > :25:23.that is something that Our members are not
:25:24. > :25:28.going to agree with me on everything and I don't believe that
:25:29. > :25:31.I would have any authority to have the say and determine
:25:32. > :25:33.the future What method would you use
:25:34. > :25:36.for the death penalty? Again, that is something that could
:25:37. > :25:39.be determined by suggestions made So you'd have like an online
:25:40. > :25:43.poll about whether you use the electric chair,
:25:44. > :25:49.or lethal injection? For example, arguments would be made
:25:50. > :25:51.in favour of This is such a small aspect
:25:52. > :25:55.of what I'm standing for. Essentially, in mainstream media
:25:56. > :25:57.they try to by focusing on pretty irrelevant
:25:58. > :26:03.details. This is one vote that
:26:04. > :26:05.the membership would have. What I'm actually trying to do
:26:06. > :26:09.in this party is to revolutionise the democratic
:26:10. > :26:12.process in the UK, and that's really what your viewers should
:26:13. > :26:16.be concentrating on. With him at the helm he reckons Ukip
:26:17. > :26:19.would win at Meanwhile, in New York,
:26:20. > :26:26.on a visit to Trump Tower, Nigel Farage admired the plumage
:26:27. > :26:35.of the President-elect, a man he has described as
:26:36. > :26:38.a silverback gorilla, a friendship that's been condemned by some
:26:39. > :26:41.in this leadership contest. There are also elections
:26:42. > :26:43.to the party's National Executive Committee, a body
:26:44. > :26:45.that's been roundly criticised by And we're joined now by two
:26:46. > :27:00.of the candidates in the Ukip leadership election -
:27:01. > :27:10.Suzanne Evans and Paul Nuttall. We are going to kick off by giving
:27:11. > :27:14.each of them 30 seconds to lay out their case as to why they would be
:27:15. > :27:17.the less leader starting with Suzanne Evans.
:27:18. > :27:19.Ukip is at its best when it is scaring the political establishment,
:27:20. > :27:23.forcing it to address those problems it would rather ignore. But it
:27:24. > :27:27.really change people's lives for the better and fast, we need to win
:27:28. > :27:31.seats and elections right across the country. To win at the ballot box we
:27:32. > :27:51.need to attract more women, more ethnic
:27:52. > :27:53.minorities, and more of those Labour voters who no longer recognise their
:27:54. > :27:57.party. I know how to do that. Ukip under my
:27:58. > :27:59.leadership will be the same page about it, common-sense, radical
:28:00. > :28:01.party it has always been, just even more successful. Thank you, Suzanne
:28:02. > :28:03.Evans, Paul Nuttall. I'm standing on a platform of unity and experience.
:28:04. > :28:06.I believe the party must come together if it is to survive and
:28:07. > :28:09.prosper. I believe I'm the best candidate to ensure that happens, I
:28:10. > :28:11.am not part of any faction in the party, and beyond that I have done
:28:12. > :28:14.every single job within the party, whether that is as head of policy,
:28:15. > :28:16.whether that is Party Chairman, deputy leader for Nigel for the past
:28:17. > :28:18.six years. I believe Ukip has great opportunities in Labour
:28:19. > :28:23.constituencies where we can move in and become the Patriot invoice of
:28:24. > :28:25.working people, and beyond that we have to ensure the government's feet
:28:26. > :28:32.are held to the fire on Brexit and we get real Brexit, not a
:28:33. > :28:36.mealy-mouthed version. How will you get a grip on this? People have to
:28:37. > :28:40.realise that the cause is bigger than any personality, we have to get
:28:41. > :28:43.together in a room and sort out not just a spokespeople role but roles
:28:44. > :28:48.within the organisation, Party Chairman, party secretary, and
:28:49. > :28:52.whatnot. But as I say, Ukip must unite, we are on 13% in the opinion
:28:53. > :28:57.polls, the future is bright, there are open goals but Ukip must be on
:28:58. > :29:00.the pitch to score them. He says he's the only one that can get a
:29:01. > :29:04.grip on this party. I disagree, I have a huge amount of experience in
:29:05. > :29:07.the party as well and also a background that I think means I can
:29:08. > :29:18.help bring people together. I have always said nothing breeds unity
:29:19. > :29:20.faster than success and under my leadership we will be successful.
:29:21. > :29:22.There is concern about the future of our National Executive Committee
:29:23. > :29:25.going forward. Mr Farage called it the lowest grade of people I have
:29:26. > :29:28.ever met, do you agree? I think he must have been having a bad day I
:29:29. > :29:31.think we need to make it more accountable to the membership, more
:29:32. > :29:36.open, more democratic. What would you do with the National Executive
:29:37. > :29:40.Committee? I have been calling for the National Executive Committee to
:29:41. > :29:43.be elected reasonably since 201 giving the members better
:29:44. > :29:47.communication lines and make it far more transparent. Would you have a
:29:48. > :29:51.clear out of the office? I wouldn't, I think the chairman of the party,
:29:52. > :29:55.Paul Upton, the interim chairman, is doing a good job and the only person
:29:56. > :29:58.who has come out of the summer with his reputation enhanced. Let me show
:29:59. > :30:05.you a picture we have all seen of your current leader, Mr Farage, with
:30:06. > :30:09.President-elect Donald Trump. Paul Nuttall, you criticise Mr Farage's
:30:10. > :30:13.decision to appear at rallies during the American election and called Mr
:30:14. > :30:19.Trump appalling. Do you stick by that? I wouldn't have voted for him.
:30:20. > :30:22.I made it clear. Do you still think he's appalling now that he is
:30:23. > :30:27.President-elect? Some of the things he said were appalling during the
:30:28. > :30:30.campaign that he said. But he would be good for Britain, trade,
:30:31. > :30:33.pro-Brexit and he is an Anglo file and the first thing he did was put
:30:34. > :30:39.the bust of Winston Churchill back in the Oval Office. You, Suzanne
:30:40. > :30:43.Evans, called Mr Trump one of the weakest candidates the US has had. I
:30:44. > :30:47.said the same about Hillary Clinton. They cannot both be the weakest The
:30:48. > :30:51.better candidate on either side would have beaten the other, that is
:30:52. > :30:56.quite clear. Do you stand by that, or are you glad that your leader Mr
:30:57. > :31:02.Farage has strong ties to him? I am, why wouldn't I be? For Ukip to have
:31:03. > :31:05.that direct connection, it can be only good for a party. Were you not
:31:06. > :31:08.out of step and Mr Farage is in step because it looks like your vote is
:31:09. > :31:14.according to polling I have seemed like Mr Trump and his policies? Let
:31:15. > :31:18.me finish. If I am the leader of Ukip I will not be involving myself
:31:19. > :31:21.in foreign elections, I will because in trading here in this country
:31:22. > :31:23.ensuring we get Ukip people elected to council chambers and get seats in
:31:24. > :31:33.2020. The other thing your leader has in
:31:34. > :31:39.common with Mr Trump is that he rather admires Vladimir Putin. Do
:31:40. > :31:46.you? I don't. If you look at Putin's record, he has invaded Ukraine and
:31:47. > :31:50.Georgia. I am absolutely not a fan. I think that Vladimir Putin is
:31:51. > :31:56.pretty much a nasty man, but beyond that, I believe that in the Middle
:31:57. > :32:02.East, he is generally getting it right in many areas. We need to
:32:03. > :32:06.bring the conflict... Bombing civilians? We need to bring the
:32:07. > :32:10.conflict to an end as fast as possible. The British and American
:32:11. > :32:18.line before Donald Trump is to support rebels, including one is
:32:19. > :32:21.affiliated to Al-Qaeda, to the Taliban. We need to clear these
:32:22. > :32:29.people out and ensure that Syria becomes stable. This controversial
:32:30. > :32:32.breaking point poster from during the referendum campaign. Mr Farage
:32:33. > :32:38.unveiled it, there he is standing in front of it. You can bend it - do
:32:39. > :32:42.you still? Yes, I think it was the wrong poster at the wrong time. I
:32:43. > :32:46.was involved with the vote Leave campaign as well as Ukip's campaign,
:32:47. > :32:49.and I felt strongly that those concerned about immigration were
:32:50. > :32:53.already going to vote to leave because it was a fundamental truth
:32:54. > :32:55.that unless we left the European Union we couldn't control
:32:56. > :33:04.immigration. I thought it was about approaching those soft wavering
:33:05. > :33:09.voters who weren't sure. I don't think I said it was racist, but it
:33:10. > :33:12.was about sovereignty and trade and so forth. That was where we needed
:33:13. > :33:17.to go. I was concerned it might put off some of those wavering voters.
:33:18. > :33:23.People may well say, it was part of the winning campaign. It was Ukip
:33:24. > :33:30.shock and all, which is what you stand for and what makes you
:33:31. > :33:33.different. I said I would know how that I said I would not have gone
:33:34. > :33:36.for that person and I thought it was wrong to do it just a week out from
:33:37. > :33:43.the referendum. However, I believe it released legitimate concerns
:33:44. > :33:51.with a deluge of people making their way from the Middle East and Africa
:33:52. > :33:55.into the European continent. Where is the low hanging fruit for you,
:33:56. > :34:00.particularly in England? Is it Labour or Conservative voters? I
:34:01. > :34:05.want to hang onto the Conservative voters we have got but I think the
:34:06. > :34:09.low hanging fruit is Labour. Jeremy Corbyn won't sing the national
:34:10. > :34:13.anthem, Emily Thornbury despises the English flag. Diane Abbott thinks
:34:14. > :34:17.anyone talking about immigration is racist. Not to mention John
:34:18. > :34:21.McDonnell's feelings about the IRA. Labour has ceased to be a party for
:34:22. > :34:26.working people and I think Ukip is absolutely going to be that party.
:34:27. > :34:32.It is clear, I absolutely concur with everything Suzanne has said. I
:34:33. > :34:36.first voiced this back in 2008 that I believe Ukip has a fantastic
:34:37. > :34:40.opportunity in working-class communities, and everyone laughed at
:34:41. > :34:42.me. It is clear now that we resonate with working people, and you have
:34:43. > :34:49.seen that in the Brexit result. Would you bring back the death
:34:50. > :34:53.penalty? It wouldn't be Ukip policy. Absolutely not. Would you give more
:34:54. > :34:57.money to the NHS and how would your fanatic? You like it is important to
:34:58. > :35:07.fund it adequately, and it hasn t been to date. We promised in our
:35:08. > :35:11.manifesto that we would give more money. Where does the money come
:35:12. > :35:16.from? It is about tackling health tourism. I think the NHS is being
:35:17. > :35:22.taken for a ride at the moment. That may be right, but where does the
:35:23. > :35:25.money come from? It is about scaling back management in the NHS, because
:35:26. > :35:30.that has burgeoned beyond control. They are spending far more money on
:35:31. > :35:35.management. Where would you save money? We need to look at HS two,
:35:36. > :35:40.foreign aid. Now we have Brexit and we will be saving on the membership
:35:41. > :35:43.fee. We need to cut back on management, as Suzanne says. It
:35:44. > :35:50.cannot be right that 51% of people who work for the NHS in England are
:35:51. > :35:57.not clinically qualified. The NHS needs money now - where would you
:35:58. > :36:02.get it? From HS two. That is capital spending spread over a long period.
:36:03. > :36:06.Where will you get the money now? OK, another one. We spent ?25
:36:07. > :36:11.million every day on foreign aid to countries who sometimes are richer
:36:12. > :36:16.than ourselves. Through the Barnett formula. You would take money away
:36:17. > :36:31.from Scotland? Yes, I think they get far too much. PG tips or Earl Grey?
:36:32. > :36:39.Colegrave. PG tips. Strictly come dancing or X Factor? Neither.
:36:40. > :36:44.Strictly. I would love to be on it one day. There you go. Thank you
:36:45. > :36:48.It's just gone 11:35am, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:36:49. > :36:51.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
:36:52. > :37:04.Hello, I'm Lucy Fisher. the Week Ahead.
:37:05. > :37:06.Coming up on the Sunday Politics here in the
:37:07. > :37:11.As Trump triumphs in Americ`, comparisons are made with
:37:12. > :37:15.the vote in St Ives to take back control of their homes.
:37:16. > :37:18.I think it is a bit of the same thing.
:37:19. > :37:20.A general feeling that people are making rules for our
:37:21. > :37:23.community, our people and pdople we know, people who live with us,
:37:24. > :37:26.making rules that we have nothing to do with.
:37:27. > :37:30.And for the next 20 minutes I am joined by the Conservative
:37:31. > :37:33.leader of Teignbridge Distrhct Council, Jeremy Christophers
:37:34. > :37:35.and the independent leader of Cornwall Council, John Pollard.
:37:36. > :37:38.Welcome both of you to the programme.
:37:39. > :37:40.Let's start with Dawlish and the region's main railw`y.
:37:41. > :37:42.On Thursday, the Transport Secretary said his
:37:43. > :37:45.number one priority in the south-west was making sure
:37:46. > :37:47.the line at Dawlish can stand up to the
:37:48. > :37:52.stormy seas and crumbling cliffs which surround it.
:37:53. > :37:55.I would like to ask the house today that the
:37:56. > :37:58.requirement for the next st`ge of the project of a further
:37:59. > :38:00.?10 million so that we can continue to develop
:38:01. > :38:03.the programme of dealing with this issue once and for all.
:38:04. > :38:05.That funding will now be granted and the work
:38:06. > :38:15.Network Rail has reacted to this by saying it it is good news,
:38:16. > :38:18.but just a fraction of the 000s of millions
:38:19. > :38:23.Why announce it at all then, this 10 million?
:38:24. > :38:26.I don't know why he's announced it at this point in time.
:38:27. > :38:29.The work should be happening, not just an announcement of the money.
:38:30. > :38:31.I mean, the Dawlish line went down three years ago.
:38:32. > :38:34.We were promised at the timd that it will be made
:38:35. > :38:37.resilient and be made securd and I think that work
:38:38. > :38:40.should be happening, so we welcome the 10 million,
:38:41. > :38:46.What is the Government's thinking here?
:38:47. > :38:49.Because it is clearly not enough to fix the problem, so why
:38:50. > :38:54.It is to put the proper plan in place to take the
:38:55. > :38:56.grading for the cliffs back so that there is not
:38:57. > :38:58.debris falling from the
:38:59. > :39:03.And to make sure that what happened three years ago does not happen
:39:04. > :39:07.It is a massive issue nationally, but what are locally,
:39:08. > :39:13.Dawlish is one of our towns and it washes out to Newton Abbot `nd
:39:14. > :39:16.everything in that area for people who are travelling on rail locally.
:39:17. > :39:19.OK, we will watch this with interest as it progresses.
:39:20. > :39:21.As MPs debated what some called a crisis
:39:22. > :39:26.Cornish nursing home is at the centre of an undercover
:39:27. > :39:35.Last week, it was announced at the home would be
:39:36. > :39:37.closing after secret filming which would be
:39:38. > :39:39.broadcast on the BBC's Panorama programme tomorrow.
:39:40. > :39:44.The authorities of course have a duty to
:39:45. > :39:46.protect residents and questhons are being asked about the strength
:39:47. > :39:49.of the care regulator amid claims the system is broken.
:39:50. > :39:53.What exactly went on behind the windows of this St Austdll
:39:54. > :39:57.care home is causing a lot of heartache and anger.
:39:58. > :40:01.All I have heard is that they are the sort of
:40:02. > :40:04.things that nobody would want their relatives to suffer.
:40:05. > :40:06.It really is a scandal that things have been
:40:07. > :40:13.I've been speaking to relatives of loved
:40:14. > :40:15.Ones Here At Clinton House @nd Other Morley Group care homes
:40:16. > :40:20.They are obviously very worried and have many
:40:21. > :40:23.They want to know why that after a series of complaints
:40:24. > :40:29.and bad reports, it took an undercover
:40:30. > :40:32.and bad reports, it took an undercover expose to lead to the
:40:33. > :40:33.drastic action that has happened here.
:40:34. > :40:35.Clinton House is being closdd after
:40:36. > :40:37.an investigation by Panoram` found evidence of cruelty and neglect
:40:38. > :40:40.at this and one of the home run by the
:40:41. > :40:44.The programme, which broadc`sts tomorrow, says staff have
:40:45. > :40:47.been rushed off their feet, often leaving the privacy and dignity of
:40:48. > :41:01.Sylvia is one of the residents are yet to be moved
:41:02. > :41:04.This picture, taken by her daughter this week.
:41:05. > :41:06.As Christine, her daughter, struggles to find a
:41:07. > :41:09.new home for her mother, Christine tells me she first raised concerns
:41:10. > :41:12.about Clinton House back in 201 and a closed for admissions,
:41:13. > :41:16.Her concerns about standards and staff shortages
:41:17. > :41:19.The authorities in Cornwall do have to
:41:20. > :41:25.Because lots of the concerns that are being raised now have bden being
:41:26. > :41:27.raised in the past three years by relatives,
:41:28. > :41:30.friends and loyal carers and
:41:31. > :41:32.nothing, seemingly, has been done to improve things here, or,
:41:33. > :41:34.I suspect, in other Morley homes and I suspect
:41:35. > :41:42.It is only six months since Clinton House
:41:43. > :41:47.was last inspected by the Care Quality Commission.
:41:48. > :41:49.Despite noting continuing concerns about staffing
:41:50. > :41:52.and finding a home was not entirely safe,
:41:53. > :41:54.Clinton House was rated as
:41:55. > :42:07.requiring improvement and allowed to stay open.
:42:08. > :42:10.That status - requires improvement - is shared by five of the
:42:11. > :42:14.Three others have also been under investigation in recent weeks.
:42:15. > :42:17.Back in 2013, there were urgent inspections here at Saint Tdresa's,
:42:18. > :42:19.again, amid claims of inadepuate staffing and bad care.
:42:20. > :42:21.We have worked for six years reports in this
:42:22. > :42:23.group of care homes, but nothing is actually changing with the
:42:24. > :42:28.They are not taken the concdrns of people seriously, and
:42:29. > :42:32.then the families come to us, we report things
:42:33. > :42:36.It shouldn't take the presstre of Your Voice Matters to make the CQC
:42:37. > :42:39.act on concerns and I don't see that culture changing.
:42:40. > :42:42.CQC figures reveal a third of care homes in England are
:42:43. > :42:44.rated as requiring improvemdnt and Cornwall Council has sahd
:42:45. > :42:51.because so many homes have this data is, the
:42:52. > :42:54.rating in itself is not a bhg cause for concern and insist they
:42:55. > :42:56.took immediate action on Clhnton House when Panorama's safegtarding
:42:57. > :42:59.This week, MPs debated what Labour says is a
:43:00. > :43:10.Not investing in social card costs lives and dignity.
:43:11. > :43:12.How much more time does the Government need to see that not
:43:13. > :43:15.addressing our current fundhng crisis in social care is severely
:43:16. > :43:17.affecting lives and crippling one of our public services?
:43:18. > :43:20.Respectfully I call on the Government to wake up
:43:21. > :43:27.It is not just about rooting out poor care.
:43:28. > :43:32.The Government denies it is just a funding problem with Health
:43:33. > :43:35.Secretary Jeremy Hunt saying the coalition introduced
:43:36. > :43:37.the toughest system of care home inspection in
:43:38. > :43:41.Well, in a statement, the c`re home owners the Morley Group
:43:42. > :43:44.told us their own investigations had resulted in removal of staff and a
:43:45. > :43:50.Joining us to discuss this is the CQC's deputy chief inspector
:43:51. > :43:51.for adult social care, Debbie Ivanova.
:43:52. > :43:57.Before the Panorama expos , you gave Clinton House
:43:58. > :44:04.In fact, a third of all card homes in England have that
:44:05. > :44:08.There will be families watching this programme up and down
:44:09. > :44:10.the region thinking to themselves, my relatives safe inside thdir care
:44:11. > :44:18.Why should they have faith in your inspections?
:44:19. > :44:21.Well, we've introduced a colpletely new type of
:44:22. > :44:24.inspection over the past cotple of years and these are very thorough
:44:25. > :44:27.and look in detail at the quality of care.
:44:28. > :44:31.comes from people and every piece of that
:44:32. > :44:36.others helps us to shape those inspections and really find out what
:44:37. > :44:44.it is like for people living in those homes.
:44:45. > :44:48.So why was the care home thdn given the status
:44:49. > :44:51.requires improvement and not the lowest status, inadequate?
:44:52. > :44:57.Because the findings we had at that time did
:44:58. > :44:59.not lead to that rating of inadequate.
:45:00. > :45:01.We felt that the provider h`d the ability to change
:45:02. > :45:05.It is a much-needed resource in Cornwall and
:45:06. > :45:08.It is important that the provider, who was
:45:09. > :45:10.the absolute responsibility for that care, does improve it.
:45:11. > :45:12.What is your current assessment of the Morley
:45:13. > :45:17.Well, we have been at all four of the
:45:18. > :45:21.Two of them we had already started to inspect before the
:45:22. > :45:24.Panorama programme gave us the information.
:45:25. > :45:27.And we had found the standard had deteriorated
:45:28. > :45:30.significantly, so we are very concerned that the provider has
:45:31. > :45:36.failed to make the changes that were absolutely needed and the
:45:37. > :45:41.responsibility for that is firmly with them, so we will now bd looking
:45:42. > :45:44.at taking our strongest and most forceful action at all of their
:45:45. > :45:47.We've been speaking to relatives who say
:45:48. > :45:49.they've been telling you this
:45:50. > :45:52.It does seem it has taken a Panorama undercover
:45:53. > :45:56.investigation in order to take action here.
:45:57. > :45:58.While people are in these c`re homes in a dangerous
:45:59. > :46:02.No, we have taken action all the way through.
:46:03. > :46:04.We have taken enforcement action in the form
:46:05. > :46:07.of warning notices and thosd have been in the public domain.
:46:08. > :46:09.But now you have closed the care home since
:46:10. > :46:15.Since then, you have moved from handing
:46:16. > :46:17.over notices to close in the care home.
:46:18. > :46:26.We actually have not closed the care home.
:46:27. > :46:28.The care home has been closdd by the provider and
:46:29. > :46:30.the local authority removing people from it.
:46:31. > :46:32.However, what we have to
:46:33. > :46:35.always think about is the b`lance between people's lives and their
:46:36. > :46:38.home and the service they are being provided.
:46:39. > :46:40.It's the provider who was
:46:41. > :46:45.given every opportunity to hmprove this home and it is so disappointing
:46:46. > :46:48.to see that when we've gone out this time,
:46:49. > :46:49.standards have deteriorated so
:46:50. > :46:57.OK, Debbie, I'm going to brhng in John Pollard here.
:46:58. > :47:02.What is your reaction to thhs news that the other Morley
:47:03. > :47:04.Group care homes have now bden downgraded to the status in`dequate?
:47:05. > :47:08.Well, that's the first I've heard of it, so we need to take action and
:47:09. > :47:15.It is them I am concerned about, making sure they
:47:16. > :47:17.are living safely in a home which fulfils their needs.
:47:18. > :47:20.In fact, it was the council who did make sure the
:47:21. > :47:25.Absolutely, and we did that as soon as it was deemed inadequate.
:47:26. > :47:27.We took action and met with our colleagues
:47:28. > :47:30.in the NHS to make sure we gave alternative provision.
:47:31. > :47:32.I must say, a council officer at Cornwall Council
:47:33. > :47:36.told us that because so manx care homes in England have the status
:47:37. > :47:49.requiring improvement, it actually is a cause for concern.
:47:50. > :47:55.Well, I think because for concern is probably not the right tdrm.
:47:56. > :47:56.Debbie has explained by lots of homes have
:47:57. > :47:59.required improvement and if we get that statement about homes where we
:48:00. > :48:01.have got residents, then we take action
:48:02. > :48:02.to support the providers and
:48:03. > :48:07.It was when they failed to do that in
:48:08. > :48:10.Clinton House that we took `ction to remove residents.
:48:11. > :48:11.Jeremy, you actually run a
:48:12. > :48:16.Is it right that so many care homes are required
:48:17. > :48:20.I've never been in that sittation, but I think that if my
:48:21. > :48:23.home was requiring improvemdnt and in this home we have said that back
:48:24. > :48:26.in 2013, he did require it, you put measures
:48:27. > :48:27.in place to make sure that
:48:28. > :48:29.improvement took place as quickly as possible.
:48:30. > :48:33.We are hearing from residents going back years and years that they have
:48:34. > :48:37.How long do you give a care home to make those
:48:38. > :48:40.There are five separate measures that you measured
:48:41. > :48:43.against and for me, it is the leadership of this group
:48:44. > :48:46.that seems to be in question and one of them is
:48:47. > :48:50.So if you are scoring requires improvement in
:48:51. > :48:53.any one of those measures, then I think six months is lore than
:48:54. > :48:57.adequate by any measure to make those improvements.
:48:58. > :48:59.If those improvements have been made in this
:49:00. > :49:02.case 3-4 years ago, you wouldn't have those residents
:49:03. > :49:06.needing to be rehoused by the Council, those relatives have a
:49:07. > :49:12.really arduous job, as you can see, to rehouse their loved ones.
:49:13. > :49:14.It is a tricky situation that we are now in,
:49:15. > :49:16.but it could have been dealt with earlier.
:49:17. > :49:19.It could have been dealt with earlier.
:49:20. > :49:22.This should really only be a six-month improvement process and
:49:23. > :49:28.Well, when we rate a home as requiring
:49:29. > :49:31.improvement, we will go back within a year to see if thex have
:49:32. > :49:36.In fact, we have been back to these homes over the
:49:37. > :49:39.past two years, which is under our new measurements, 22 times `t these
:49:40. > :49:44.How many times do you go back before some kind of
:49:45. > :49:51.change happens without a Panorama expose?
:49:52. > :49:54.Not good enough changes if they ve all been downgraded to
:49:55. > :49:56.inadequate and residents finding alternative accommodation.
:49:57. > :49:58.Absolutely, those changes wdre not embedded and they were not good
:49:59. > :50:02.enough, I absolutely agree with you there.
:50:03. > :50:03.Would you say there needs to
:50:04. > :50:05.be a change in the safeguarding system?
:50:06. > :50:07.That perhaps the CQC needs more teeth?
:50:08. > :50:08.You need to be able to
:50:09. > :50:14.We do have stronger enforcement powers and use
:50:15. > :50:24.At this moment in time in the country there are over ` hundred
:50:25. > :50:27.homes were in the process of cancelling the registrathon on.
:50:28. > :50:29.We do use that urgent action where we
:50:30. > :50:31.find that people are not safe and we can't allow them to stay
:50:32. > :50:37.However, in this instance, the Morley Group were
:50:38. > :50:40.making some improvements, not enough, and we would go back in and
:50:41. > :50:41.check that and it would follow through.
:50:42. > :50:49.Now, what has St Ives got in common with the United States?
:50:50. > :50:51.Well, this week, the former chair of the
:50:52. > :50:57.National Trust, Sir Simon Jdnkin, made a link between the recdnt vote
:50:58. > :51:00.to ban new second homes in St Ives and the election of Donald Trump.
:51:01. > :51:02.Weather or not it is a revolution, the action
:51:03. > :51:03.taken in West Cornwall is
:51:04. > :51:14.With a top price of nearly ?5,0 0 a week, this holiday home
:51:15. > :51:17.is a beacon of inequality on the Cornish coast.
:51:18. > :51:19.Completed this year on a plot of land bought
:51:20. > :51:21.for half a million, it
:51:22. > :51:30.The people here say they cannot take any more.
:51:31. > :51:31.The infrastructure at the
:51:32. > :51:37.Well, there's going to be one, isn't there?
:51:38. > :51:39.On whether to ban second home owning.
:51:40. > :51:45.I will probably say I don't want second home owners
:51:46. > :51:50.In South East Cornwall, thex are planning to do what has been
:51:51. > :51:58.done in St Ives, where more than 80% of people voted for a ban on but
:51:59. > :52:01.new second homes and wear when the High Court backed them last
:52:02. > :52:03.week, they used a phrase we have heard a
:52:04. > :52:08.It is a great today I think for St Ives and for any
:52:09. > :52:09.community who wishes to take back control.
:52:10. > :52:11.Take back control of this
:52:12. > :52:15.And we will make America great again!
:52:16. > :52:16.If we vote to Leave, we take back
:52:17. > :52:23.And yes, we will make America great again.
:52:24. > :52:27.In London's Evening Standard this week, the
:52:28. > :52:30.former chair of the National Trust made a link between what has been
:52:31. > :52:33.happening here in the south,west and what's been happening across the
:52:34. > :52:38.I think it is a bit of the same thing.
:52:39. > :52:40.A general feeling that people are making rules for our
:52:41. > :52:44.community, our people, people we know, people
:52:45. > :52:47.who live with others, making rules that we had nothing to
:52:48. > :52:52.People are saying, look, you said in the of St Ives, we
:52:53. > :52:54.have a localist agenda in Britain now.
:52:55. > :53:01.He meant we would have decisions to make over these things.
:53:02. > :53:11.Back in the South East Cornwall Dorothy is part of a
:53:12. > :53:12.group of volunteers who saved their shop
:53:13. > :53:14.from closure and part, she
:53:15. > :53:16.says, of a community that has been left behind.
:53:17. > :53:22.now in Truro, they don't know this area and they made decisions
:53:23. > :53:28.Born in Germany, Dorothy knows what it is
:53:29. > :53:31.like to be an outsider, but she still supports a ban
:53:32. > :53:36.What message does a second homes ban send to the wider
:53:37. > :53:42.It is a message of hostilitx, I know that, yes.
:53:43. > :53:48.I am not against outsiders, I just think there needs
:53:49. > :53:52.to be a happy medium as to how many so-called
:53:53. > :53:54.outsiders we have got and
:53:55. > :53:58.The Conservative MP for this part of the
:53:59. > :54:02.world says she supports a b`n but the Government does not much like
:54:03. > :54:05.It says trying to control property ownership will
:54:06. > :54:07.require intrusive state surveillance and interfere with people's
:54:08. > :54:19.So the world is taking back control as signified by the boat in St Ives
:54:20. > :54:22.and this is according to Silon Jenkins, writing in the Evening
:54:23. > :54:29.I think everybody wants to live in the West Country.
:54:30. > :54:32.Unfortunately, a lot of people leave it until late in life, so they mop
:54:33. > :54:37.My view is that everybody in their mid-20s in full-time employlent
:54:38. > :54:40.should have the opportunity to live in the town or village they grew up
:54:41. > :54:45.We are a leader in custom and self build housing in mx
:54:46. > :54:48.constituency and that is how we are planning to get away out of this.
:54:49. > :54:50.We are building the required number of
:54:51. > :54:53.for local people and 90% of the housing that has been built
:54:54. > :54:57.has gone to local people, so I think we are
:54:58. > :55:11.in quite a good position, but that doesn't stop the h`rd work.
:55:12. > :55:13.This policy in St Ives could mean that
:55:14. > :55:16.builders just go elsewhere within Cornwall?
:55:17. > :55:18.They may go to the beautiful spots where they can see
:55:19. > :55:22.Should you have brought this policy in across the whole of
:55:23. > :55:27.I think the point about St Hves is the level of second home
:55:28. > :55:29.ownership is extremely high and the people there are saxing
:55:30. > :55:31.quite rightly, I think, that they want to
:55:32. > :55:36.So if you want to be points of the St Ives
:55:37. > :55:39.community and go and live there I would caution anybody abott
:55:40. > :55:42.comparing anything to Donald Trump, to be honest, and I do think that
:55:43. > :55:45.this is very much about loc`lism and local decision-making, and H just
:55:46. > :55:48.want to reassure people it is nothing to do with rejecting
:55:49. > :55:54.We welcome at the second home owners.
:55:55. > :55:56.Because there is that side of it, isn't
:55:57. > :56:00.It could be viewed as trying to keep outsiders out?
:56:01. > :56:01.Yes, and it shouldn't be, because there is
:56:02. > :56:06.If you talk to people in St Ives who are behind the
:56:07. > :56:08.referendum and the neighbourhood plan, that certainly was not the
:56:09. > :56:13.It is localism, protecting their local community...
:56:14. > :56:18.Well, that, too, and it is very much part of the agenda
:56:19. > :56:26.Our double devolution in that we are trying to give more
:56:27. > :56:29.power and responsibility and freedoms to the locality and that is
:56:30. > :56:32.very much in tune with what we are trying to achieve at Cornwall
:56:33. > :56:35.Jeremy, the Government's quite concerned about
:56:36. > :56:39.It believes we are interferhng with free markets, it is not good
:56:40. > :56:44.Well, the Government's planning policy recently has been
:56:45. > :56:47.inconsistent and I think as local councils where we know we h`ve
:56:48. > :56:49.genuine housing need, it has been very difficult to plot
:56:50. > :56:51.a way through to provide thd housing we need for
:56:52. > :56:55.Recently, the starter homes policy has mopped up
:56:56. > :56:57.pretty well all the affordable housing due to be built.
:56:58. > :56:59.But if you took this to its logical conclusion,
:57:00. > :57:02.if you brought this in everxwhere, you would have borrowers in London
:57:03. > :57:05.where apartment blocks can be sold to foreign investors, it cotld
:57:06. > :57:08.affect the whole economy, couldn't it?
:57:09. > :57:11.But the piece you are referring to refers to people just buxing
:57:12. > :57:13.property in London and leaving it empty,
:57:14. > :57:14.which is an investment, that
:57:15. > :57:18.And first and foremost, houses are homes, they are
:57:19. > :57:20.for people to live in, not stand empty.
:57:21. > :57:24.And the point of St Ives is it is trying
:57:25. > :57:26.to give local people a fair opportunity
:57:27. > :57:28.to get into a house in
:57:29. > :57:36.Now time for our regular round-up of the political
:57:37. > :57:47.Plans for a new constituencx crossing the Devon and Cornwall
:57:48. > :57:53.border are defended by the South East Cornwall LP.
:57:54. > :57:56.It is also on a matter of f`irness and fair
:57:57. > :58:01.representation for all of our constituents.
:58:02. > :58:04.The 58-year-old South Dorset MP says prison officers
:58:05. > :58:15.should not be asked to work until they are 68.
:58:16. > :58:18.I mean I'm in a reasonably good condition, but in a decade from
:58:19. > :58:23.now, I am not so sure I would be able to drag someone out of a prison
:58:24. > :58:26.Councils count the cost of ` spate of parking meter thefts.
:58:27. > :58:29.?5,000 worth of damage with a very, very small returns for the thief's
:58:30. > :58:33.North Cornwall's MP reveals he is learning to swim and says he
:58:34. > :58:36.wants other non-swimmers to do the same.
:58:37. > :58:38.And a new campaign for the
:58:39. > :58:40.region's wine to be sold at Westminster.
:58:41. > :58:51.John, while you are here, wd must ask you about the constituency
:58:52. > :58:53.spanning parts of Cornwall and Devon.
:58:54. > :58:57.The South East Cornwall MP says she is.
:58:58. > :59:04.For many reasons, not least the 43 miles it would extend to.
:59:05. > :59:06.We are firm in our belief at Cornwall
:59:07. > :59:10.Council that we need to protect the integrity of Cornwall.
:59:11. > :59:14.We have one NHS service, one council and
:59:15. > :59:18.therefore, we want to retain that and the bill but she was spdaking
:59:19. > :59:20.against merely wanted to ch`nge the percentage where constituencies
:59:21. > :59:29.Jeremy, very quickly, but with something more
:59:30. > :59:32.light-hearted, should we sell English wine at council meetings?
:59:33. > :59:37.I've no experience of wine at council
:59:38. > :59:39.meetings, that's a thing of the past, really.
:59:40. > :59:42.It may happen in the big hotse, but it doesn't happen
:59:43. > :59:47.That is the Sunday Politics here in the
:59:48. > :59:49.south-west, thanks to my guests, Jeremy and John.
:59:50. > :59:57.never happened and will not happen in four years. It is subject we
:59:58. > :00:06.should spend more time on. Back to you.
:00:07. > :00:10.What will the Chancellor have to say in his first big economic statement?
:00:11. > :00:13.What impact will the forecasters say Brexit will have on the economy
:00:14. > :00:16.And who will face the Front National's Marine Le Pen in
:00:17. > :00:31.Well, the Shadow Chancellor and the Chancellor have both been
:00:32. > :00:32.touring the television studios this morning.
:00:33. > :00:39.Let's be clear, a lot of this is going to be gimmicks and press
:00:40. > :00:42.As I've said, in the pipeline, we've only
:00:43. > :00:45.seen one in five delivered to construction, that's all.
:00:46. > :00:48.So a lot of this will be a repeat of what
:00:49. > :00:51.I'm not going to reveal what I'm going to say on
:00:52. > :00:56.We don't have unlimited capacity, as one might
:00:57. > :00:59.imagine from listening to John McDonnell, to borrow
:01:00. > :01:04.hundreds of billions of pounds more for discretionary spending.
:01:05. > :01:08.That simply doesn't exist if we're going to
:01:09. > :01:10.retain this country's hard-won credibility in the financial markets
:01:11. > :01:14.if we are going to remain an attractive place for business to
:01:15. > :01:28.We didn't learn very much, Helen, but the papers were briefed this
:01:29. > :01:35.morning that there will be another ?1.3 billion for roads and things
:01:36. > :01:42.like that. ?1.3 billion is 0.08 of our GDP. Not exactly an
:01:43. > :01:45.infrastructure investment programme, is it? Yellow like I have to say, it
:01:46. > :01:54.was not thrilling to read the details. -- I have to say... It is
:01:55. > :01:58.the first big financial statement that is going to come and I think
:01:59. > :02:03.there will be a big row about the OBE are forecast because they cannot
:02:04. > :02:07.set out a range, they have to commit to one forecast. Everything they do
:02:08. > :02:16.is incredibly political. DOB are is on a hiding to nothing. -- DOB are
:02:17. > :02:24.-- the Office for Budget Responsibility. I don't know how
:02:25. > :02:28.they will square the circle. It is an interesting week. It is all about
:02:29. > :02:33.the economy and public finances and we don't have to talk about Brexit
:02:34. > :02:43.until next Sunday, but no, I have a terrible feeling that by the end of
:02:44. > :02:46.Wednesday afternoon we will be screaming and shouting about how
:02:47. > :02:49.Brexit is going to be for the economy. Just imagine the Treasury
:02:50. > :02:54.comes out with his forecast that it is going to collapse growth and
:02:55. > :03:01.collapsed Treasury takings, people will be apoplectic. Until now, the
:03:02. > :03:07.economy has continued to grow strongly. Pretty well. They cannot
:03:08. > :03:11.say, we have noticed it slowing down and that will continue. They have to
:03:12. > :03:15.take a punt if they think it will slow down. It affects the
:03:16. > :03:19.Chancellor's figures, because the more they say it is slowing down,
:03:20. > :03:25.and I have seen that it will go from 2% down to 1.4%, the more the
:03:26. > :03:29.Chancellor's deficit rises even without any more tax cuts and
:03:30. > :03:34.spending. Absolutely. I think Tom is right. What we will see this week is
:03:35. > :03:38.a continuation of the debate we have been having all along. If the Office
:03:39. > :03:42.for Budget Responsibility has negative and gloomy predictions
:03:43. > :03:50.there will be howls of agony, and rightly howls of frustration from
:03:51. > :03:53.Brexiteers who will say that all the dire predictions from before the
:03:54. > :03:57.referendum have not come to pass and now you are talking things down in a
:03:58. > :04:04.way that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The money for roads, you
:04:05. > :04:11.were dismissive about it, but every little helps. I don't dismiss it, I
:04:12. > :04:16.say it doesn't amount to a fiscal stimulus in macro economic terms.
:04:17. > :04:24.I'm sure if you are on that road, it will be useful. They are going to
:04:25. > :04:34.build a super highway between Oxford and Cambridge. I would like to see
:04:35. > :04:39.them go out to Japan and learn how to fill a hole in two days. I would
:04:40. > :04:42.suggest the road from Oxford to Cambridge is not for the just
:04:43. > :04:51.managing classes, even though it goes through Milton Keynes, and that
:04:52. > :04:58.simply freezing due freezing fuel duty isn't going to hack it, either.
:04:59. > :05:01.These just about managing people are potentially quite a big band. With
:05:02. > :05:06.income tax rises, it means anything you do to help them is incredibly
:05:07. > :05:09.expensive. The universal credit freeze is an interesting example of
:05:10. > :05:16.that. Philip Hammond sounded ambivalent about it after
:05:17. > :05:22.pre-briefings that it might not the cuts might not go ahead. There are
:05:23. > :05:28.people who are in work but because they are low paid don't have the
:05:29. > :05:32.number of hours, they require welfare benefits to top up their
:05:33. > :05:37.pay, and these welfare benefits as it stands, are frozen until 202 ,
:05:38. > :05:42.and yet inflation is now starting to rise. That's a problem for the just
:05:43. > :05:51.managing people. Correct. It is worse than that, because we are
:05:52. > :05:58.talking about April 2017 when tax credits become universal credits, so
:05:59. > :06:01.the squeeze will be greater. We will get a small highway between a couple
:06:02. > :06:05.of university towns, but if he has any money left to spend at all, it
:06:06. > :06:12.will be on some pretty seismic jazzman for the just about managing
:06:13. > :06:21.people. I am so glad we're not calling them Jams on this programme,
:06:22. > :06:28.because it is a patronising tone. What the Chancellor and Shadow
:06:29. > :06:33.Chancellor did not confront is that Mr Trump's election is a watershed
:06:34. > :06:36.in terms of being able to borrow cheaply. The Federal Reserve is
:06:37. > :06:41.about to start raising rates. The days of cheap borrowing for
:06:42. > :06:44.governments could be coming to an end. You can feel a bit sorry for
:06:45. > :06:49.labour here because after having had six years of being told that we need
:06:50. > :06:53.a surplus and these things are important, we can't deny the
:06:54. > :06:59.deficit, we have switched now and the first thing that Philip Hammond
:07:00. > :07:02.did was to scrap George Osborne s borrowing targets. He has given
:07:03. > :07:08.himself more wriggle room than George Osborne had. He has and it
:07:09. > :07:13.will cost them more. Debt servicing will now rise as a cost. Where is
:07:14. > :07:20.the next political earthquake going to happen?
:07:21. > :07:26.It could be Italy, or the French elections coming up next spring
:07:27. > :07:29.Now, who will face the Front National's Marine Le Pen in next
:07:30. > :07:30.year's French Presidential elections?
:07:31. > :07:32.Well, France's centre-right part, Les Republicans,
:07:33. > :07:34.are selecting their candidate in the first round of
:07:35. > :07:37.Well, France's centre-right part, Les Republicans,
:07:38. > :07:40.are selecting their candidate in the first round of
:07:41. > :07:44.Let's speak to our correspondent in Paris, Hugh Schofield.
:07:45. > :07:57.Welcome to the programme. Three main candidates, the former -- two former
:07:58. > :08:01.prime ministers and Nicolas Sarkozy, the former president. It is not
:08:02. > :08:05.clear who the front runner is. Robbins it is quite an exciting
:08:06. > :08:20.race, because four weeks it did look as if it was going to be Juppe. It
:08:21. > :08:23.is a two round race. Two go through and the idea is that they rally all
:08:24. > :08:28.the support together. It looked like the first round would be dominated
:08:29. > :08:34.by Juppe and Nicolas Sarkozy, and there was a clear binary combination
:08:35. > :08:39.there, because Sarkozy was looking for squeamish far right voters. In
:08:40. > :08:44.other words, veering clearly to the right and far right on immigration
:08:45. > :08:48.and identity issues. And Juppe is the opposite, saying we had to
:08:49. > :08:55.appeal to the centre. That was what it looked like. But the third
:08:56. > :08:58.candidate has made this really quite staggering surge in the last few
:08:59. > :09:03.days. There was a debate on Thursday and he was deemed to have won it on
:09:04. > :09:08.television. He is coming up strongly, and I wouldn't be at all
:09:09. > :09:13.surprised to see him go through which would be interesting from a
:09:14. > :09:17.British perspective, because if the becomes president, he will be the
:09:18. > :09:25.first president with a British wife. His wife Penelope is Welsh.
:09:26. > :09:28.We will have to leave it there. I would suggest that the reason it is
:09:29. > :09:32.fascinating is that whoever wins this primary for the centre-right
:09:33. > :09:37.party is likely to be the next president, and who the next
:09:38. > :09:39.president is will be very important for Britain in these Brexit
:09:40. > :09:43.negotiations. Nothing will really happen until it is determined. Then
:09:44. > :09:49.after the German elections in October. I would add one more
:09:50. > :09:58.constituent part. The most important thing about the race is who can stop
:09:59. > :10:06.Marine Le Pen. Marine Le Pen will almost be one of the ones in the
:10:07. > :10:11.run-off. The Socialists don't expect much. Francois Hollande is done
:10:12. > :10:16.There is too much of a cliff to climb. Which one of these three
:10:17. > :10:21.centre-right candidates can stop Marine Le Pen? We have had Brexit
:10:22. > :10:30.and Trump, but we could also have Marine Le Pen. If it is Sarkozy it
:10:31. > :10:37.is the battle of the right. In some areas, he has moved to the right of
:10:38. > :10:41.marine Le Pen. I suppose he feels he has do in order to take the wind out
:10:42. > :10:44.of our sails. You wonder if she could succeed later on if she does
:10:45. > :10:48.not this time. Talking to French analysts last night, there was
:10:49. > :10:52.suggesting that she could not do it this time but could win the next
:10:53. > :10:55.time. All the events in France over the last year seemed to provide the
:10:56. > :11:03.most propitious circumstances for her to do well, and particularly if
:11:04. > :11:07.you throw in Trump and Brexit. Suppose it is Mr Sarkozy, and he
:11:08. > :11:10.goes through and wins the Republican nomination, and he and Marine Le Pen
:11:11. > :11:18.go through to the second round, that would mean, think about it, is that
:11:19. > :11:25.a lot of French socialist voters and those on the father left would have
:11:26. > :11:31.to grit their teeth and vote for Nicolas Sarkozy. They might not do
:11:32. > :11:42.it. We might see what we saw in America, where lots of potential
:11:43. > :11:46.Clinton voters did not turn out You got politicians like Melanchon on
:11:47. > :11:51.the far left saying there are foreign workers taking bread out of
:11:52. > :11:55.French workers' mounts. We sometimes forget, because we tend to emphasise
:11:56. > :12:10.the National of the National front, but actually, there are economic
:12:11. > :12:19.policy is quite Bennite. Sarkozy is the Hillary Clinton of the French
:12:20. > :12:26.elections. He is Mr establishment. Juppe and the other third candidate
:12:27. > :12:29.are the same. You have to re-establish candidates running
:12:30. > :12:32.against an antiestablishment candidate. There are populist
:12:33. > :12:37.economic policies from the National front. The other three want to raise
:12:38. > :12:46.the retirement age and cut back on the 35 hour week, which are not
:12:47. > :12:49.classic electoral appeals. Mr Juppe used to be the Mayor of Bordeaux.
:12:50. > :12:55.And we are the biggest importers of claret, so that could have an
:12:56. > :13:01.effect. In 2002, it was Jack Shear against John Marine Le Pen, and the
:13:02. > :13:08.socialist campaign slogan was, vote for the Crook, not the fascist. We
:13:09. > :13:11.will see what they come up with this time.
:13:12. > :13:15.The Daily Politics is back at noon tomorrow on BBC Two,
:13:16. > :13:21.where on Wednesday I will have full coverage of the Chancellor's Autumn
:13:22. > :13:30.But remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.