:00:35. > :00:37.It's Sunday morning, and this is the Sunday Politics.
:00:38. > :00:41.Theresa May will be the first foreign leader to visit US
:00:42. > :00:43.President Donald Trump this week - she's promised to hold "very
:00:44. > :00:47.frank" conversations with the new and controversial
:00:48. > :00:54.Speaking of the 45th President of America,
:00:55. > :00:57.we'll be looking at what the Trump presidency could hold
:00:58. > :01:03.in store for Britain and the rest of the world.
:01:04. > :01:06.And with the Supreme Court expected to say that Parliament should
:01:07. > :01:09.have a vote before the Brexit process begins, we'll ask
:01:10. > :01:33.In the south-west, libraries facing what Labour will do next.
:01:34. > :01:36.And to talk about all of that and more, I'm joined by three
:01:37. > :01:39.journalists who, in an era of so-called fake news, can be
:01:40. > :01:42.relied upon for their accuracy, their impartiality -
:01:43. > :01:45.and their willingness to come to the studio
:01:46. > :01:52.It's Steve Richards, Julia Hartley-Brewer
:01:53. > :01:58.and Tom Newton Dunn, and during the programme they'll be
:01:59. > :02:02.tweeting as often as the 45th President of the USA in the middle
:02:03. > :02:12.So - the Prime Minister has been appearing on the BBC this morning.
:02:13. > :02:14.She was mostly talking about Donald Trump and Brexit,
:02:15. > :02:17.but she was also asked about a story on the front of this
:02:18. > :02:21.It's reported that an unarmed Trident missile test fired
:02:22. > :02:27.from the submarine HMS Vengeance near the Florida coast in June
:02:28. > :02:36.The paper says the incident took place weeks before a crucial Commons
:02:37. > :02:40.Well, let's have listen to Theresa May talking
:02:41. > :02:45.The issue that we were talking about in the House of Commons
:02:46. > :02:49.It was about whether or not we should renew Trident,
:02:50. > :02:52.whether we should look to the future and have a replacement Trident.
:02:53. > :02:55.That's what we were talking about in the House of Commons.
:02:56. > :02:57.That's what the House of Commons voted for.
:02:58. > :03:03.He doesn't want to defend our country with an independent
:03:04. > :03:10.There are tests that take place all the time, regularly,
:03:11. > :03:18.What we were talking about in that debate that took place...
:03:19. > :03:26.I'm not going to get an answer to this.
:03:27. > :03:32.Tom, it was clear this was going to come up this morning. It is on the
:03:33. > :03:37.front page of the Sunday Times. It would seem to me the Prime Minister
:03:38. > :03:43.wasn't properly briefed on how to reply. I think she probably was, but
:03:44. > :03:46.the Prime Minister we now have doesn't necessarily answer all
:03:47. > :03:54.questions in the straightest way. She didn't answer that one and all.
:03:55. > :04:01.Unlike previous ones? She made it quite clear she was briefed. You
:04:02. > :04:06.read between the Theresa May lines. By simply not answering Andrew Marr
:04:07. > :04:10.four times, it is obvious she knew, and that she knew before she went
:04:11. > :04:16.into the House of Commons and urged everyone to renew the ?40 billion
:04:17. > :04:19.replacement programme. Of course it is an embarrassment, but does it
:04:20. > :04:26.have political legs? I don't think so. She didn't mislead the Commons.
:04:27. > :04:31.If she wanted to close it down, the answer should have been, these are
:04:32. > :04:34.matters of national security. There's nothing more important in
:04:35. > :04:41.that than our nuclear deterrent. I'm not prepared to talk about testing.
:04:42. > :04:46.End of. But she didn't. Maybe you should be briefing her. That's a
:04:47. > :04:52.good answer. She is an interesting interviewee. She shows it when she
:04:53. > :04:56.is nervous. She was transparently uneasy answering those questions,
:04:57. > :05:01.and the fact she didn't answer it definitively suggests she did know
:05:02. > :05:05.and didn't want to say it, and she answered awkwardly. But how wider
:05:06. > :05:10.point, that the House of Commons voted for the renewal of Trident,
:05:11. > :05:15.suggests to me that in the broader sweep of things, this will not run,
:05:16. > :05:22.because if there was another vote, I would suggest she'd win it again.
:05:23. > :05:27.But it is an embarrassment and she handled it with a transparent
:05:28. > :05:32.awkwardness. She said that the tests go on all the time, but not of the
:05:33. > :05:37.missiles. Does it not show that when the Prime Minister leaves her
:05:38. > :05:41.comfort zone of Home Office affairs or related matters, she often
:05:42. > :05:48.struggles. We've seen it under questioning from Mr Corbyn even, and
:05:49. > :05:52.we saw it again today. Absolutely. Tests of various aspects of the
:05:53. > :05:57.missiles go on all the time, but there's only been five since 2000.
:05:58. > :06:01.What you described wouldn't have worked, because in previous tests
:06:02. > :06:09.they have always been very public about it. Look how well our missiles
:06:10. > :06:17.work! She may not have misled Parliament, but she may not have
:06:18. > :06:22.known about it. If she didn't know, does Michael Fallon still have a job
:06:23. > :06:28.on Monday? Should Parliament know about a test that doesn't work? Some
:06:29. > :06:34.would say absolutely not. Our deterrent is there to deter people
:06:35. > :06:39.from attacking us. If they know that we are hitting the United States by
:06:40. > :06:44.mistake rather than the Atlantic Ocean, then... There is such a thing
:06:45. > :06:50.as national security, and telling all the bad guys about where we are
:06:51. > :06:54.going wrong may not be a good idea. It was her first statement as Prime
:06:55. > :07:00.Minister to put her case for renewal, to have the vote on
:07:01. > :07:03.Trident, and in that context, it is significant not to say anything. If
:07:04. > :07:07.anyone knows where the missile landed, give us a call!
:07:08. > :07:09.So Donald Trump's inauguration day closed with him dancing
:07:10. > :07:12.to Frank Sinatra's My Way, and whatever your view on the 45th
:07:13. > :07:15.President of the United States he certainly did do it his way.
:07:16. > :07:17.Not for him the idealistic call for national unity -
:07:18. > :07:19.instead he used Friday's inaugural address to launch a blistering
:07:20. > :07:23.attack on the dark state of the nation and the political
:07:24. > :07:27.class, and to promise to take his uncompromising approach
:07:28. > :07:31.from the campaign trail to the White House.
:07:32. > :07:35.Here's Adam Fleming, with a reminder of how
:07:36. > :07:43.First, dropping by for a cup of tea and a slightly awkward exchange
:07:44. > :07:52.Then, friends, foes and predecessors watched
:07:53. > :07:59.I, Donald John Trump, do solemnly swear...
:08:00. > :08:04.The crowds seemed smaller than previous inaugurations,
:08:05. > :08:08.the speech tougher then any previous incoming president.
:08:09. > :08:15.From this day forth, it's going to be only America first.
:08:16. > :08:40.In the meantime, there were sporadic protests in Washington, DC.
:08:41. > :08:44.Opponents made their voices heard around the world too.
:08:45. > :08:46.The President, who'd criticised the work of
:08:47. > :08:51.the intelligence agencies, fitted in a visit to the CIA.
:08:52. > :08:54.There is nobody that feels stronger about the intelligence community
:08:55. > :09:06.And, back at the office, in the dark, a signature signalled
:09:07. > :09:12.the end of the Obama era and the dawn of Trump.
:09:13. > :09:18.So, as you heard there, President Trump used his
:09:19. > :09:21.inauguration to repeat his campaign promise to put "America first"
:09:22. > :09:24.in all his decisions, and offered some hints of what to expect
:09:25. > :09:40.He talked of in America in carnage, to be rebuilt by American hands and
:09:41. > :09:44.American Labour. President Trump has already started to dismantle key
:09:45. > :09:49.parts of the Obama Legacy, including the unwinding of the affordable care
:09:50. > :09:54.act, and the siding of the climate action plan to tackle global
:09:55. > :09:59.warning. Little to say about foreign policy, but promised to eradicate
:10:00. > :10:04.Islamic terrorism from the face of the Earth, insisting he would
:10:05. > :10:09.restore the US military to unquestioning dominance. He also
:10:10. > :10:13.said the US would develop a state missile defence system to deal with
:10:14. > :10:19.threats he sees from Iran and North Korea. In a statement that painted a
:10:20. > :10:24.bleak picture of the country he now runs, he said his would be a law and
:10:25. > :10:29.order Administration, and he would keep the innocents safe by building
:10:30. > :10:35.the border war with Mexico. One thing he didn't mention, for the
:10:36. > :10:37.first time ever, there is a Eurosceptic in the oval office, who
:10:38. > :10:40.is also an enthusiast for Brexit. We're joined now by Ted Malloch -
:10:41. > :10:44.he's a Trump supporter who's been tipped as the president's
:10:45. > :10:45.choice for US ambassador to the EU, and he's
:10:46. > :10:48.just flown back from Washington. And by James Rubin -
:10:49. > :10:59.he's a democrat who served Let's start with that last point I
:11:00. > :11:06.made in the voice over there. We now have a Eurosceptic in the oval
:11:07. > :11:09.office. He is pro-Brexit and not keen on further European Union
:11:10. > :11:15.integration. What are the implications of that? First of all,
:11:16. > :11:21.a renewal of the US- UK special relationship. You see the Prime
:11:22. > :11:25.Minister already going to build and rebuild this relationship. Already,
:11:26. > :11:30.the bust of Winston Churchill is back in the oval office.
:11:31. > :11:34.Interestingly, Martin Luther King's bust is also there, so there is an
:11:35. > :11:41.act of unity in that first movement of dusts. Donald Trump will be
:11:42. > :11:51.oriented between bilateral relationships and not multilateral
:11:52. > :11:57.or supernatural. Supranational full. What are the implications of someone
:11:58. > :12:02.in the White House now not believing in it? I think we are present in the
:12:03. > :12:07.unravelling of America's leadership of the West. There is now a thing
:12:08. > :12:15.called the west that America has led since the end of World War II,
:12:16. > :12:23.creating supranational - we just heard supernatural! These
:12:24. > :12:28.institutions were created. With American leadership, the world was
:12:29. > :12:32.at peace in Europe, and the world grew increasingly democratic and
:12:33. > :12:37.prosperous. Wars were averted that could be extremely costly. When
:12:38. > :12:41.something works in diplomacy, you don't really understand what the
:12:42. > :12:45.consequences could have been. I think we've got complacent. The new
:12:46. > :12:51.president is taking advantage of that. It is a terrible tragedy that
:12:52. > :12:56.so many in the West take for granted the successful leadership and
:12:57. > :13:04.institutions we have built. You could argue, as James Rubin has
:13:05. > :13:09.argued in some articles, that... Will Mr Trump's America be more
:13:10. > :13:17.involved in the world than the Obama won? Or will it continue the process
:13:18. > :13:23.with running shoes on that began with Mr Obama? President Obama
:13:24. > :13:28.stepped back from American leadership. He withdrew from the
:13:29. > :13:32.world. He had a horrendous eight years in office, and American powers
:13:33. > :13:37.have diminished everywhere in the world, not just in Europe. That
:13:38. > :13:42.power will reassert. The focus will be on America first, but there are
:13:43. > :13:48.foreign interests around the world... How does it reassert itself
:13:49. > :13:52.around the world? I think the institutions will be recreated. Some
:13:53. > :13:58.may be taken down. There could be some new ones. I think Nato itself,
:13:59. > :14:02.and certainly the Defence Secretary will have discussions with Donald
:14:03. > :14:06.Trump about how Nato can be reshaped, and maybe there will be
:14:07. > :14:11.more burden sharing. That is an important thing for him. You are
:14:12. > :14:16.tipped to be the US ambassador to Brussels, to the EU, and we are
:14:17. > :14:20.still waiting to hear if that will happen. Is it true to say that Mr
:14:21. > :14:30.Trump does not believe in EU integration? I think you made that
:14:31. > :14:38.clear in the speech. He talked about supranational. He does not believe
:14:39. > :14:42.in those kinds of organisations. He is investing himself in bilateral
:14:43. > :14:47.relationships, the first of which will be with the UK. So we have a
:14:48. > :14:54.president who does not believe in EU integration and has been highly
:14:55. > :14:58.critical of Nato. Do the people he has appointed to defend, Secretary
:14:59. > :15:03.of State, national security, do you think that will temper this
:15:04. > :15:10.anti-NATO wretched? Will he come round to a more pro-NATO situation?
:15:11. > :15:16.I think those of us who care about America's situation in the world
:15:17. > :15:20.will come in to miss President Obama a lot. I think the Secretary of
:15:21. > :15:26.State and the faculty of defence will limit the damage and will urge
:15:27. > :15:30.him not to take formal steps to unravel this most powerful and most
:15:31. > :15:37.successful alliance in history, the Nato alliance. But the damage is
:15:38. > :15:41.already being done. When you are the leader of the West, leadership means
:15:42. > :15:47.you are persuading, encouraging, bolstering your leadership and these
:15:48. > :15:51.institutions by the way you speak. Millions, if not hundreds of
:15:52. > :15:53.millions of people, have now heard the US say that what they care about
:15:54. > :16:03.is within their borders. What do you say to that? It is such
:16:04. > :16:12.an overstatement. The point is that Donald Trump is in a Jacksonian
:16:13. > :16:15.tradition of national populism. He is appealing to the people first.
:16:16. > :16:21.The other day, I was sitting below this page during the address, and he
:16:22. > :16:25.said, everyone sitting behind me as part of the problem. Everyone in
:16:26. > :16:29.front of me, the crowd and the crowd on television, is part of the
:16:30. > :16:33.solution, so we are giving the Government back to the people. That
:16:34. > :16:36.emphasis is going to change American life, including American
:16:37. > :16:45.International relations. It doesn't moving the leak back -- it doesn't
:16:46. > :16:50.mean we are moving out of Nato, it simply means we will put our
:16:51. > :16:54.national interests first. There were echoes of Andrew Jackson's
:16:55. > :16:59.inauguration address of 1820. That night, the Jacksonians trashed the
:17:00. > :17:02.White House, but Mr Trump's people didn't do that, so there is a
:17:03. > :17:08.difference there. He also said something else in the address - that
:17:09. > :17:15.protectionism would lead to prosperity. I would suggest there is
:17:16. > :17:21.no evidence for that in the post-war world. He talked about protecting
:17:22. > :17:24.the American worker, American jobs, the American economy. I actually
:17:25. > :17:31.think that Donald Trump will not turn out to be a protectionist. If
:17:32. > :17:37.you read the heart of the deal... This is referring to two Republican
:17:38. > :17:46.senators who introduce massive tariffs in the Hoover
:17:47. > :17:51.administration. Exactly. If you read The Art Of The Deal, you will see
:17:52. > :17:54.how Donald Trump deals with individuals and countries. There is
:17:55. > :18:00.a lot of bluster, positioning, and I think you already see this in
:18:01. > :18:05.bringing jobs by the United States. Things are going to change. Let's
:18:06. > :18:11.also deal with this proposition. China is the biggest loser of this
:18:12. > :18:18.election result. Let me say this: The first time in American history
:18:19. > :18:26.and American president has set forth his view of the world, and it is a
:18:27. > :18:30.mercantile view of the world, who makes more money, who gets more
:18:31. > :18:35.trade, it doesn't look at the shared values, leadership and defends the
:18:36. > :18:38.world needs. The art of the deal has no application to America's
:18:39. > :18:43.leadership of the world, that's what we're learning. You can be a great
:18:44. > :18:48.businessman and make great real estate deals - whether he did not is
:18:49. > :18:52.debatable - but it has nothing to do with inspiring shared values from
:18:53. > :18:56.the West. You saying China may lose, because he may pressure them to
:18:57. > :19:03.reduce their trade deficit with the US. They may or may not. We may both
:19:04. > :19:07.lose. Right now, his Secretary of State has said, and I think he will
:19:08. > :19:11.walk this back when he is brief, that they will prevent the Chinese
:19:12. > :19:15.from entering these islands in the South China Sea. If they were to do
:19:16. > :19:20.that, it would be a blockade, and there would be a shooting war
:19:21. > :19:24.between the United States and China, so US - China relations are the most
:19:25. > :19:28.important bilateral relationship of the United States, and they don't
:19:29. > :19:32.lend themselves to the bluff and bluster that may have worked when
:19:33. > :19:37.you are trying to get a big building on second Ave in Manhattan. Is China
:19:38. > :19:54.the biggest loser? I think the Chinese have a lot to lose. Gigi and
:19:55. > :19:59.Ping was in Davos this week -- Xi Jin Ping was in Davos.
:20:00. > :20:05.Is Germany the second biggest loser in the sense that I understand he
:20:06. > :20:13.hasn't agreed time to see Angela Merkel yet, also that those close to
:20:14. > :20:16.him believe that Germany is guilty of currency manipulation by adopting
:20:17. > :20:20.a weak your row instead of the strong Deutschmark, and that that is
:20:21. > :20:26.why they are running a huge balance of payments surplus with the United
:20:27. > :20:32.States. American - German relations may not be great. There is a point
:20:33. > :20:35.of view throughout Europe. You only have to talk to the southern
:20:36. > :20:39.Europeans about this question. It seems like the euro has been aligned
:20:40. > :20:45.to benefit Germany. Joe Stiglitz, the famous left of centre Democrat
:20:46. > :20:52.economist, made the same case in a recent book. In this case, I think
:20:53. > :20:57.Germany will be put under the spotlight. Angela Merkel has shown
:20:58. > :21:02.herself to be the most respected and the most successful leader in
:21:03. > :21:06.Europe. We who care about the West, who care about the shared values of
:21:07. > :21:11.the West, should pray and hope that she is re-elected. This isn't about
:21:12. > :21:16.dollars and cents. We're living in a time whether Russian leader has
:21:17. > :21:22.another country in Europe and for some inexplicable reason, the
:21:23. > :21:25.American president, who can use his insult diplomacy on everyone,
:21:26. > :21:31.including Mrs Merkel, the only person he can't seem to find
:21:32. > :21:35.anything to criticise about is Mr Putin. There are things more
:21:36. > :21:39.important than the actual details of your currency. There are things like
:21:40. > :21:42.preventing another war in Europe, preventing a war between the Chinese
:21:43. > :21:49.and the US. You talk about the Trident missile all morning, nuclear
:21:50. > :21:54.deterrence is extremely important. It doesn't lend itself to the bluff
:21:55. > :21:57.and bluster of a real estate deal. I understand all that, but the fact we
:21:58. > :22:02.are even talking about these things shows the new world we are moving
:22:03. > :22:06.into. I'd like to get you both to react to this. This is a man that
:22:07. > :22:14.ended the Bush Dynasty, a man that beat the Clinton machine. In his
:22:15. > :22:16.inauguration, not only did he not reach out to the Democrats, he
:22:17. > :22:23.didn't even mention the Republicans. These are changed days for us. They
:22:24. > :22:27.are, and change can be good or disastrous. I'm worried that it's
:22:28. > :22:33.easy in the world of diplomacy and in them -- for the leadership of the
:22:34. > :22:37.United States to break relationships and ruin alliances. These are things
:22:38. > :22:45.that were carefully nurtured. George Schultz, the American Secretary of
:22:46. > :22:48.State under Reagan talked about gardening, the slow, careful
:22:49. > :22:53.creation of a place with bilateral relationships that were blossoming
:22:54. > :22:56.and flowering multilateral relationships that take decades to
:22:57. > :23:02.create, and he will throw them away in a matter of days. The final
:23:03. > :23:06.word... I work for George Schultz. He was a Marine who stood up
:23:07. > :23:11.America, defended America, who would be in favour of many of the things
:23:12. > :23:16.that Donald Trump and the tramp Administration... Give him a call.
:23:17. > :23:20.His top aide macs that I've spoken to are appalled by Mr Trump's
:23:21. > :23:29.abdication of leadership. He is going to our radically -- he's going
:23:30. > :23:33.to eradicate extremist Islam from the face of the year. Is that
:23:34. > :23:37.realistic? I know people in the national security realm have worked
:23:38. > :23:43.on a plan. They say they will have such a plan in some detail within 90
:23:44. > :23:49.days. Lets hope they succeed. We have run out of time. As a issues.
:23:50. > :23:52.Thank you, both. -- fascinating issues.
:23:53. > :23:55.So Theresa May promised a big speech on Brexit, and this week -
:23:56. > :23:58.perhaps against expectation - she delivered, trying to answer
:23:59. > :24:00.claims that the government didn't have a plan with an explicit
:24:01. > :24:03.wish-list of what she hopes to achieve in negotiations with the EU.
:24:04. > :24:05.To her allies it was ambitious, bold, optimistic -
:24:06. > :24:07.to her opponents it was full of contradictions
:24:08. > :24:11.Here's Adam again, with a reminder of the speech and how
:24:12. > :24:16.There are speeches, and there are speeches.
:24:17. > :24:19.Like Theresa May's 12 principles for a Brexit deal leading
:24:20. > :24:23.to the UK fully out of the EU but still friendly in terms
:24:24. > :24:26.This agreement should allow for the freest possible trade
:24:27. > :24:29.in goods and services between Britain and the EU's member states.
:24:30. > :24:34.It should give British companies the maximum
:24:35. > :24:38.operate within European markets and let European businesses do
:24:39. > :24:46.She also said no deal would be better than the wrong deal,
:24:47. > :25:01.We want to test what people think about what she's just said.
:25:02. > :25:04.Do we have any of our future negotiating
:25:05. > :25:09.As the European Parliament voted for its new
:25:10. > :25:16.president, its chief negotiator sounded off.
:25:17. > :25:18.Saying, OK, if our European counterparts don't accept
:25:19. > :25:21.it, we're going to make from Britain a sort
:25:22. > :25:24.of free zone or tax haven, I
:25:25. > :25:30.The Prime Minister of Malta, the country that's assumed the EU's
:25:31. > :25:33.rotating presidency, spoke in sorrow and a bit of anger.
:25:34. > :25:37.We want a fair deal for the United Kingdom, but
:25:38. > :25:47.that deal necessarily needs to be inferior to membership.
:25:48. > :25:50.Next, let's hear from some enthusiastic
:25:51. > :25:55.leavers, like, I don't know, the Daily Mail?
:25:56. > :25:58.The paper lapped it up with this adoring front page.
:25:59. > :26:02.For Brexiteers, it was all manna from heaven.
:26:03. > :26:05.I think today means we are a big step closer to becoming
:26:06. > :26:08.an independent country again, with control of our own laws,
:26:09. > :26:14.I was chuckling at some of it, to be honest, because
:26:15. > :26:18.There were various phrases there which I've used myself again and
:26:19. > :26:22.Do we have any of those so-called Remoaners?
:26:23. > :26:25.There will, at the end of this deal process,
:26:26. > :26:28.so politicians get to vote on the stitch-up, but
:26:29. > :26:31.We take the view as Liberal Democrats that
:26:32. > :26:33.if this process started with democracy last June,
:26:34. > :26:37.We trusted the people with departure, we must trust them
:26:38. > :26:44.Do we have anyone from Labour, or are you all
:26:45. > :26:46.watching it in a small room somewhere?
:26:47. > :26:53.Throughout the speech, there seemed to be an implied threat that
:26:54. > :26:56.somewhere along the line, if all her optimism of a deal
:26:57. > :26:58.with the European Union didn't work, we would move
:26:59. > :27:00.into a low-tax, corporate taxation, bargain-basement economy on the
:27:01. > :27:04.I think she needs to be a bit clearer about what
:27:05. > :27:11.The Labour leader suggested he'd tell
:27:12. > :27:14.his MPs to vote in favour of starting a Brexit process if
:27:15. > :27:17.Parliament was given the choice, sparking a mini pre-revolt among
:27:18. > :27:22.Finally, do we have anyone from big business here?
:27:23. > :27:31.Of course, your all in Davos at the World Economic
:27:32. > :27:41.Clarity, first of all, really codified what many of us have been
:27:42. > :27:43.anticipating since the referendum result,
:27:44. > :27:44.particularly around the
:27:45. > :27:49.I think what we've also seen today is the Government's
:27:50. > :27:52.willingness to put a bit of edge into the negotiating dynamic, and I
:27:53. > :27:56.Trade negotiations are negotiations, and you have to lay out, and you
:27:57. > :27:58.have to be pretty tough to get what you want.
:27:59. > :28:01.Although some business people on the slopes speculated
:28:02. > :28:03.about moving some of their operations out of Brexit Britain.
:28:04. > :28:21.We saw there the instant reaction of Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn,
:28:22. > :28:24.but how will the party respond to the challenge posed by Brexit
:28:25. > :28:28.Well, I'm joined now by the Shadow Home Secretary, Diane Abbott.
:28:29. > :28:36.People know that Ukip and the Tories are for Brexit. The Lib Dems are
:28:37. > :28:41.four remain. What is Labour for? For respecting the result of the
:28:42. > :28:46.referendum. It was a 72% turnout, very high for an election of that
:28:47. > :28:49.nature, and we believe you have to respect that result. You couldn't
:28:50. > :28:54.have a situation where people like Tim Farron are saying to people,
:28:55. > :28:57.millions of people, sorry, you got it wrong, we in London no better.
:28:58. > :29:04.However, how the Tories go forward from here has to be subject to
:29:05. > :29:09.parliamentary scrutiny. Is it Shadow Cabinet policy to vote for the
:29:10. > :29:13.triggering of Article 50? Our policy is not to block Article 50. That is
:29:14. > :29:20.what the leader was saying this morning. So are you for it? Our
:29:21. > :29:25.policy is not to block it. You are talking about voting for it. We
:29:26. > :29:30.don't know what the Supreme Court is going to say, and we don't know what
:29:31. > :29:33.legislation Government will bring forward, and we don't know what
:29:34. > :29:40.amendment we will move, but we're clear that we will not vote to block
:29:41. > :29:48.it. OK, so you won't bow to stop it, but you could abstain? No, what we
:29:49. > :29:52.will do... Either you vote for or against all you abstain. There are
:29:53. > :29:56.too many unanswered questions. For instance, the position of EU
:29:57. > :30:00.migrants working and living in this country. You may not get the answer
:30:01. > :30:05.to that before Article 50 comes before the Commons, so what would
:30:06. > :30:09.you do then? We are giving to amend it. We can only tell you exactly how
:30:10. > :30:13.we will amend it when we understand what sort of legislation the
:30:14. > :30:16.Government is putting forward, and in the course of moving those
:30:17. > :30:21.amendments, we will ask the questions that the people of Britain
:30:22. > :30:26.whether they voted to leave remain want answered.
:30:27. > :30:34.When you come to a collective view, will there be a three line whip? I
:30:35. > :30:39.can't tell you, because we have not seen the government 's legislation.
:30:40. > :30:45.But when you see it, you will come to a collective view. Many regard
:30:46. > :30:51.this as extremely important. Will there be a three line whip on
:30:52. > :30:56.Labour's collective view? Because it is important, we shouldn't get ahead
:30:57. > :31:00.of ourselves. When we see what the Supreme Court says, and crucially,
:31:01. > :31:04.when we see what the government position is, you will hear what the
:31:05. > :31:11.whipping is. Will shadow ministers be able to defy any three line whip
:31:12. > :31:17.on this? That is not normally the case. But they did on an early vote
:31:18. > :31:22.that the government introduced on Article 50. Those who voted against
:31:23. > :31:27.it are still there. In the Blair years, you certainly couldn't defy a
:31:28. > :31:33.three line whip. We will see what happens going forward. I remember
:31:34. > :31:36.when the Tories were hopelessly divided over the EU. All these
:31:37. > :31:43.Maastricht votes and an list arguments. Now it is Labour. Just
:31:44. > :31:55.another symptom of Mr Corbyn's poor leadership. Not at all. Two thirds
:31:56. > :32:00.voted to leave, a third to remain. We are seeking to bring the country
:32:01. > :32:06.and the party together. We will do that by pointing out how disastrous
:32:07. > :32:15.a Tory Brexit would be. Meanwhile, around 80 Labour MPs will defy a
:32:16. > :32:20.three line whip. It's too early to say that. Will you publish what you
:32:21. > :32:25.believe the negotiating goal should be? We are clear on it. We think
:32:26. > :32:31.that the economy, jobs and living standards should be the priority.
:32:32. > :32:37.What Theresa May is saying is that holding her party together is her
:32:38. > :32:43.priority. She is putting party above country. Does Labour think we should
:32:44. > :32:48.remain members of the single market? Ideally, in terms of jobs and the
:32:49. > :32:53.economy, of course. Ritt -ish business thinks that as well. Is
:32:54. > :32:57.Labour policy that we should remain a member of the single market?
:32:58. > :33:01.Labour leaves that jobs and the economy comes first, and if they
:33:02. > :33:09.come first, you would want to remain part of the single market. But to
:33:10. > :33:16.remain a member? Jobs and the economy comes first, and to do that,
:33:17. > :33:20.ideally, guess. So with that, comes free movement of people, the
:33:21. > :33:26.jurisdiction of the European, and a multi-million never shipped thief.
:33:27. > :33:32.Is Labour prepared to pay that? Money is neither here nor there.
:33:33. > :33:41.Because the Tories will be asked to pay a lot of money... The EU has
:33:42. > :33:48.made it clear that you cannot have... I am asking for Labour's
:33:49. > :33:53.position. Our position is rooted in the reality, and the reality is that
:33:54. > :33:57.you cannot have the benefits of the member of the European Union,
:33:58. > :34:00.including being a member of the single market, without
:34:01. > :34:05.responsibility, including free movement of people. Free movement,
:34:06. > :34:13.is remaining under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. Is
:34:14. > :34:18.that the Labour position? You've said that Labour wants to remain a
:34:19. > :34:22.member of the single market. That is the price tag that comes with it.
:34:23. > :34:28.Does Labour agree with paying that price tag? We are not pre-empting
:34:29. > :34:34.negotiation. Our goals are protect jobs and the British economy. Is it
:34:35. > :34:43.Labour's position that we remain a member of the customs union? Well,
:34:44. > :34:52.if we don't, I don't see how Theresa May can keep our promises and has
:34:53. > :35:02.unfettered access... You said Labour's position was clear. It is!
:35:03. > :35:07.It is clear that Theresa May... I am not asking about Theresa May. Is it
:35:08. > :35:13.Labour's position to remain a member of the customs union? It is Labour's
:35:14. > :35:17.position to do what is right for British industry. Depending on how
:35:18. > :35:22.the negotiations go, it may prove that coming out of the customs
:35:23. > :35:28.union, as Theresa May has indicated she wants to do, could prove
:35:29. > :35:33.catastrophic, and could actually destroy some of her promises. You do
:35:34. > :35:41.accept that if we are member of the customs union, we cannot do our own
:35:42. > :35:47.free trade deals? What free trade deals are you talking about? The
:35:48. > :35:52.ones that Labour might want to do in the future. First, we have to
:35:53. > :35:56.protect British jobs and British industries. If you are talking about
:35:57. > :36:01.free trade deals with Donald Trump, the danger is that Theresa May will
:36:02. > :36:08.get drawn into a free-trade deal with America that will open up the
:36:09. > :36:13.NHS to American corporate... The cards are in Theresa May's hands. If
:36:14. > :36:17.she takes us out of the single market, if she takes us out of the
:36:18. > :36:23.customs union, we will have to deal with that. How big a crisis for
:36:24. > :36:29.Jeremy Corbyn will be if Labour loses both by-elections in February.
:36:30. > :36:38.I don't believe we will lose both. But if he did? I am not anticipating
:36:39. > :36:42.that. Is Labour lost two seats in a midterm of a Tory government, would
:36:43. > :36:46.that be business as usual? I'm not prepared to see us lose those seats,
:36:47. > :36:49.so I will not talk about something that will not happen. Thank you.
:36:50. > :36:50.You're watching the Sunday Politics.
:36:51. > :36:53.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
:36:54. > :36:56.Coming up here in 20 minutes, The Week Ahead,
:36:57. > :36:58.when we'll be talking to Business Minister Margot James
:36:59. > :37:01.about the government's new industrial strategy and that
:37:02. > :37:04.crucial Supreme Court ruling on Brexit.
:37:05. > :37:24.Good morning, coming up on Politics where you are.
:37:25. > :37:28.Sunday Politics. Trouble in Sunday Politics. Trouble in
:37:29. > :37:36.Paradise. The ongoing battle for affordable homes. And how local
:37:37. > :37:41.should the library be? And for the next 20 minutes I am joined by Candy
:37:42. > :37:46.Atherton, a former Labour MP, and Alison Hernandez, Devon and Cornwall
:37:47. > :37:50.Police's Conservative crime and Police Commissioner. First, as the
:37:51. > :37:54.region's schools getting a fair deal under the governments new funding
:37:55. > :38:03.formula? Dead in's MPs do not think so. At a parliamentary debate this
:38:04. > :38:06.week, some Tories threatened to vote against own government. If this
:38:07. > :38:09.education funding settlement does not change in relation to Devon's
:38:10. > :38:14.schools, if there is no significant uplift when this comes, whatever
:38:15. > :38:19.form it comes in, six months, nine months, I will vote against it.
:38:20. > :38:25.Because the settlement that is being proposed for Devon's schools is
:38:26. > :38:28.simply illogical and unfair. This relates to what MPs say is an unfair
:38:29. > :38:33.funding formula, it sees pupils in funding formula, it sees pupils in
:38:34. > :38:37.Devon get almost ?300 less than year spent in the education than the
:38:38. > :38:39.national average. Under the new formula there will not be much
:38:40. > :38:46.improvement, and some schools, around 38%, will be worse off.
:38:47. > :38:49.Alison, people in the South West voted in an army of Conservative MPs
:38:50. > :38:54.at the last election and hope that things like this would get
:38:55. > :38:59.re-dressed. Now they are not. What is going to change things, when will
:39:00. > :39:03.the government listen? A number of MPs supported the fear funding
:39:04. > :39:07.campaign that was going on to help improve the formula and how it was
:39:08. > :39:11.looked at. I do not know how they came about the formula for the
:39:12. > :39:16.education part, but we are about to go through a police funding formula
:39:17. > :39:22.review, and we're going a transparent process, heavily
:39:23. > :39:25.involved in influencing it. That is -- for us, what is happening in
:39:26. > :39:29.Devon is rural schools seem to have lost out, which is bad news for us
:39:30. > :39:35.in policing, because morality is something we are pushing. Your Tory
:39:36. > :39:39.Government is not doing much to help redress the balance, not rewarding
:39:40. > :39:47.the voters that voted in the Tory MPs. It is not my Tory Government, I
:39:48. > :39:52.am not part of the government. But you're part of their party. The MPs
:39:53. > :39:58.legislate, and it is good to see them standing up for their
:39:59. > :40:00.constituencies. Ivybridge College is affected, and they need to be
:40:01. > :40:07.influencing how it works going forward. Candy, what do you say
:40:08. > :40:12.about this? There are some places like Kensington and Chelsea where
:40:13. > :40:17.people get ?6,000 a year, and in Exeter it is 3500 a year, that is a
:40:18. > :40:24.huge gap in the amount of money spent on a child's education. It is
:40:25. > :40:27.a huge gap, and Cornwall did relatively well in this new formula,
:40:28. > :40:29.if it comes to. Looks like the Conservative MPs are retreating
:40:30. > :40:39.rather than marching forward. The fact that government ministers have
:40:40. > :40:42.not responded on the Devon rural schools, and I have to say that Gary
:40:43. > :40:44.saying he's going to vote against, 40% of his constituency is in
:40:45. > :40:51.Plymouth, and they did better. I do not think the Tory MPs in this new
:40:52. > :40:55.formula have done the business. It seemed like a David and Goliath
:40:56. > :40:58.victory in the battle for affordable housing. Last year people in St
:40:59. > :41:04.Ives, which has a high number of second homes, voted to restrict all
:41:05. > :41:06.new-build properties to local residents only. Last week Jeremy
:41:07. > :41:11.Corbyn told me he's watching with interest to see how it plays out,
:41:12. > :41:15.and he is not alone. Communities up and down the country are poised to
:41:16. > :41:18.follow suit. But the early signs are not good, with developers now
:41:19. > :41:26.looking to build elsewhere. I have been to get the lie of the land. St
:41:27. > :41:29.is not difficult to see why houses is not difficult to see why houses
:41:30. > :41:32.here are pricey, and why the plight of local people has caught to
:41:33. > :41:40.national attention. New stations around the world have featured the
:41:41. > :41:46.story. -- news stations. Russian TV ask whether similar rules in London
:41:47. > :41:52.would stop wealthy residents buying. There is a real housing crisis in St
:41:53. > :41:54.Ives, and for young people leaving school the vast majority will never
:41:55. > :41:59.in St Ives, and even getting rented in St Ives, and even getting rented
:42:00. > :42:04.accommodation for them is a very real problem. Tony's family have
:42:05. > :42:07.lived here for generations. His father and grandfather were
:42:08. > :42:15.times have changed. We have a one times have changed. We have a one
:42:16. > :42:19.product economy in St Ives, tourism. That is a load -- low-wage, low
:42:20. > :42:24.skill economy, so the only hope is a neighbourhood planning setting
:42:25. > :42:28.precedents in the control and some kind of attempt to change the
:42:29. > :42:32.market. But it is not clear the plan they voted for will have the desired
:42:33. > :42:38.impact. Estate agents say that there are already signs of it having the
:42:39. > :42:43.opposite effect. We have had discussions with developers who have
:42:44. > :42:45.come back to us and said because of restrictions being placed on what
:42:46. > :42:52.they can build, they are looking elsewhere in the county, or
:42:53. > :42:56.generally elsewhere, such as Penzance. 83% of residents voted to
:42:57. > :43:02.introduce a clause which restricts the sale of all new-build properties
:43:03. > :43:07.to permanent residents only, so no new second homes. But that has a
:43:08. > :43:10.knock-on effect, say the developers. Developers say it is the sale of the
:43:11. > :43:17.open market housing which dictates how much affordable housing can be
:43:18. > :43:21.built on a site. The H2 clause devalues the site, reducing the
:43:22. > :43:24.amount of affordable housing that can be built. The councils do not
:43:25. > :43:29.build social housing any more, it is going to developers to do this. From
:43:30. > :43:33.what I can gather from speaking to developers, I think it will have the
:43:34. > :43:35.opposite effect. As they will not be building, they will not be building
:43:36. > :43:41.affordable homes. It is a affordable homes. It is a
:43:42. > :43:45.mathematical equation, if there is less at the top, there will be less
:43:46. > :43:49.filtered out to affordable housing. You have some sites, will you be
:43:50. > :43:53.going ahead with your schemes? We probably will not advance them at
:43:54. > :43:59.the moment, and there are several reasons. There is the risk, the end
:44:00. > :44:03.valueless, we do not know what those end values will be. Secondly we do
:44:04. > :44:10.not know whether we would get these schemes funded, and even if we were
:44:11. > :44:13.getting these housing, we do not know of people would get the
:44:14. > :44:17.competitive rates of mortgage lending because those types of
:44:18. > :44:22.houses carry more risk. Nobody wants to be a first mover, so at the
:44:23. > :44:27.moment we probably would not do it. What do those behind the ball to
:44:28. > :44:32.make developers saying that? I do not believe that statement for one
:44:33. > :44:36.moment. I think this is a couple of developers who has seen that the
:44:37. > :44:40.greedy pot is disappearing, and I am fairly confident that we are still
:44:41. > :44:44.going to have development going on in the town, but it is going to be
:44:45. > :44:48.at our pace and under the neighbourhood planning. This belief
:44:49. > :44:54.that people power will prevail is really testing the water. Whether it
:44:55. > :44:58.can provide the answer to affordable living remains to be seen. It is
:44:59. > :45:03.there, in a way. You are a there, in a way. You are a
:45:04. > :45:06.councillor, you have been a county councillor, isn't there room for
:45:07. > :45:10.negotiation? The developer did not see he wasn't going to go ahead, he
:45:11. > :45:14.said there was too much risk in being the first. What can the
:45:15. > :45:18.Council do to mitigate it? I think it is going to the government.
:45:19. > :45:21.Neighbourhood plans are in their early days but there are -- they are
:45:22. > :45:26.an opportunity for local people to set the parameters of planning. At
:45:27. > :45:32.the moment the developer is pretty much have a free hand, and until
:45:33. > :45:36.Cornwall had a local plan, we had no tools to stop a local development.
:45:37. > :45:44.The town I represent, we had inappropriate development,... There
:45:45. > :45:47.were lots of students, but beautiful green fields looking over the sea
:45:48. > :45:51.turned into estates. People said they didn't want that. The town
:45:52. > :45:56.council and community worked together for three years, we
:45:57. > :46:00.consulted and debated, we researched and put together our plan, and it is
:46:01. > :46:04.now at the consultation stage. Is this the right move? The Tory
:46:05. > :46:09.Government brought in a move that enabled local people to have their
:46:10. > :46:13.say, which is good. We did not bring in a planning law that was a tiny
:46:14. > :46:21.slim volume that gave no protection to communities. But I will say this,
:46:22. > :46:26.Brexit means Brexit, then referendum should mean referendum. So far, it
:46:27. > :46:29.is in St Ives. Talking to people in the town, the definition of
:46:30. > :46:35.affordable housing kept coming up. They kept saying affordable is not
:46:36. > :46:41.actually affordable. Howzat 180s eyes and pains when you earn the
:46:42. > :46:46.four times that is 60,000. It is not four times that is 60,000. It is not
:46:47. > :47:09.just St Ives, tourism... -- a House that
:47:10. > :47:15.cost 180,000 in St Ives. You can shape out the future for you really
:47:16. > :47:19.could be. But should the councils build more social housing? Local
:47:20. > :47:27.councils have the opportunity to look at opportunities and beer...
:47:28. > :47:34.Even I am looking at how to build housing on land that is redundant on
:47:35. > :47:37.a police state. That the government will not allow councils to build
:47:38. > :47:43.housing, which is madness, because it is investment for the community,
:47:44. > :47:47.Council and local people to have a home. What do you mean it will not
:47:48. > :47:51.allow? The rules will not allow councils to borrow money to build
:47:52. > :47:54.housing. You can build a swimming pool but not houses. I do not know
:47:55. > :47:59.the financial rules in a local authority, I would be looking at an
:48:00. > :48:05.arms length association to do it on my behalf if I could not do it as
:48:06. > :48:09.myself. I will look at ways that can happen. All towns and communities
:48:10. > :48:13.want diversity, they want housing for older people, younger people,
:48:14. > :48:20.family homes. You do not want one to dominate. Everything like this, with
:48:21. > :48:24.big decisions, it is an opportunity for change and to negotiate, and to
:48:25. > :48:30.do something different. Where there is well, there is a way. For me, if
:48:31. > :48:34.licensing was an opportunity, that might be an option. There might be
:48:35. > :48:40.other things once they go through discussions, but the is needed. OK,
:48:41. > :48:44.the writer Virginia Woolf said of public libraries, I ransack them and
:48:45. > :48:48.find them full of treasure. In Plymouth, soon there may be a little
:48:49. > :48:55.less treasure. Tomorrow consultation begins on whether to close ten of
:48:56. > :49:00.the city's 17 libraries. The council says it is not about saving money
:49:01. > :49:02.but adapting to technology. Critics say it is short-sighted. We have
:49:03. > :49:15.been reading between the lines. MUSIC
:49:16. > :49:21.Poking fun at the demise of a library due to the rise of new
:49:22. > :49:24.technology. But there is no singing and dancing here. This library is
:49:25. > :49:28.one of ten which might close under new plans unveiled this week by
:49:29. > :49:31.Plymouth City Council. It is just down the road from high view primary
:49:32. > :49:36.School, where some of the pupils have decided to take action. Keen
:49:37. > :49:42.supporters of their local library, they have started a petition to save
:49:43. > :49:44.it. I am hoping it is going to work because I know that lots of people
:49:45. > :49:49.really like the library because it is not so far from the school. Do
:49:50. > :49:54.not close it down. Everyone really likes it. When they see that we
:49:55. > :49:59.really want this library, then they will say, let us not close it down,
:50:00. > :50:08.let us keep it for the people who like this library. When you're
:50:09. > :50:11.learning to read at school, it can seem oppression and work things.
:50:12. > :50:17.Children today are more pressure than ever, but going to the library
:50:18. > :50:21.was never a pressure. It was always a joy and discovery. Award-winning
:50:22. > :50:24.author and illustrator Simon James author and illustrator Simon James
:50:25. > :50:29.paints an idyllic picture of going to the library. He believes they are
:50:30. > :50:34.valuable places which should not be lost. If we lose them, we will be
:50:35. > :50:40.closing down horizons for children, possibilities for older people to
:50:41. > :50:42.have something they can go to. The council argues smaller library
:50:43. > :50:47.buildings like this cannot offer the range of services at once to
:50:48. > :50:52.provide. Our customers tell us they want help with IT skills, they want
:50:53. > :50:56.opportunities to seek jobs, to have access to council services and
:50:57. > :51:01.access information about health. You simply cannot do that if you have
:51:02. > :51:03.not got enough space to provide it. Opposition Labour councillors say it
:51:04. > :51:09.is more important the libraries remain local. This one opened by
:51:10. > :51:16.Princess Anne in 2015 is now earmarked for closure. They are
:51:17. > :51:19.hubs, places people can meet and interact. They are the heart of
:51:20. > :51:23.every community in Plymouth. When you take away the library you rip
:51:24. > :51:27.out the heart of the local community. In Cornwall, the running
:51:28. > :51:32.of libraries has been transferred to ten councils. Devon County Council's
:51:33. > :51:36.50 libraries are run by a social enterprise company. Plymouth City
:51:37. > :51:40.Council says it is unsustainable to keep 17 libraries going. It wants
:51:41. > :51:44.fewer but better equipped to buildings like this one. With the
:51:45. > :51:50.public consultation beginning on Monday, library lovers are invited
:51:51. > :51:53.to have their voices heard. Allison, do you use the library, is it
:51:54. > :51:56.something you use? It is not something I use, my parents never
:51:57. > :52:00.took me to the library when I was young so I have not been brought up
:52:01. > :52:05.in the environment of it, and it was only in university I learned how to
:52:06. > :52:08.use one. It is interesting that things are transforming in local
:52:09. > :52:11.government, and this is an opportunity for the public to get
:52:12. > :52:15.involved and influence it. In some places libraries are run by
:52:16. > :52:19.volunteers. Where people feel passionately about the services they
:52:20. > :52:22.can work together with their local authority to make it happen. I'm
:52:23. > :52:26.sure the counsellor would be happy for people to approach him about
:52:27. > :52:33.that. But then paid jobs would go? Is it right that volunteers should
:52:34. > :52:37.run a good thing? But it costs money to have volunteers, you have got to
:52:38. > :52:42.support them. But services are changing, and because of what has
:52:43. > :52:45.happened, police stations have closed. Before my tenure, a police
:52:46. > :52:52.badge number of police stations were closed. People felt like they had
:52:53. > :52:56.been abandoned by the police. With libraries it will have the same
:52:57. > :53:00.feeling about it. It is one of those things that there is a reassurance
:53:01. > :53:03.factor you have a library. It is the perception in the mind of a lot of
:53:04. > :53:09.the community about what is withdrawing from local authorities.
:53:10. > :53:15.People are losing so much, that is why they get so angry. The Post
:53:16. > :53:22.Office. And the butcher and Baker. Is this a final straw for people? 17
:53:23. > :53:26.from a population of 250,000 in Plymouth is quite a lot of
:53:27. > :53:32.libraries. Would it make much difference if you scale goes back?
:53:33. > :53:35.That's difference? 70% of the local communities in the areas being
:53:36. > :53:41.closed do not have access to computers and the Internet. If you
:53:42. > :53:49.are pensioner ran the disabled you have two access the Internet to
:53:50. > :53:53.claim benefits. Cornwall Council, I will give them credit, they spoke to
:53:54. > :53:56.local communities and said it was unsustainable, they did not have the
:53:57. > :54:01.money, and work community is prepared to do it? In Falmouth, a
:54:02. > :54:07.young man set up a position. 7000 signed, and we have taken it over.
:54:08. > :54:13.Should it be voluntary or funded? There should be a mixture. You need
:54:14. > :54:18.professionalism ,, but you also need experience. National feedback showed
:54:19. > :54:24.the ones run by volunteers did not work. What about adding cafes to
:54:25. > :54:36.libraries? If you look at the businesslike Costa coffee,... But
:54:37. > :54:41.why not introduce libraries into cafes? It is about making it more
:54:42. > :54:44.accessible in the community, access to computers, books, and more by
:54:45. > :54:54.libraries are quite popular but why can't you have it? Why would you not
:54:55. > :55:01.want any library in your cafe? It would bring more people in. OK, full
:55:02. > :55:03.of ideas. It is time for the regular round-up of the political week in 60
:55:04. > :55:16.seconds. It is not all about the money, says
:55:17. > :55:21.Sarah Wollaston in a health debate on BBC spotlight this week. It is
:55:22. > :55:27.not just about funding, it is about the workforce and greater efforts on
:55:28. > :55:32.prevention. Lib MEP Robert Davidson is the party's new Brexit spokesman
:55:33. > :55:37.for Devon and Cornwall. Calls for the government to do more to tackle
:55:38. > :55:41.air pollution in Camelford. National government has its part to play and
:55:42. > :55:47.so does local government in finding solutions for congestion issues.
:55:48. > :55:53.Could Truro be the new European Capital of Culture? Councillors will
:55:54. > :55:57.decide whether to bid at next week. And crime is being recorded in Devon
:55:58. > :56:00.and Cornwall are up 6%. The force says the area is still one of the
:56:01. > :56:05.safest in the country, but others blame cuts. We all want to have and
:56:06. > :56:12.expect to have a policeman on the beat. We have not a penny more. You
:56:13. > :56:20.do not get a police car very often. -- we do not have that any more. Can
:56:21. > :56:26.we blame the cuts? We lost over 500 officers since 2010. Is this as
:56:27. > :56:29.seeing the repercussions? Devon and Cornwall Police still one of the
:56:30. > :56:36.safest places in the country to live, and burglary is the second
:56:37. > :56:40.lowest in the country. The increases, we have had a lot more
:56:41. > :56:44.people reporting on bullying and all sorts of things, which is recorded
:56:45. > :56:48.as violence without injury, so people know they can report them, so
:56:49. > :56:53.that has improved on the figures. Cyber crime, more silent but still
:56:54. > :57:00.costs money to investigate. Are you finding there is an impact? Yes, the
:57:01. > :57:04.part for me as I am keen to see more officers on the street. But you're
:57:05. > :57:12.taking another Beattie out in your plan. I am not, I'm about to invest
:57:13. > :57:16.in officers. I will be asking for a preset to see what I can use. I'm
:57:17. > :57:24.looking at reserves and aiming to invest in police officers. Nine
:57:25. > :57:29.months into your term, no plan in place, crime is up, police officers
:57:30. > :57:38.died in. Is the right person in the job? I am sorry to have to say that,
:57:39. > :57:43.but it is true that we are seeing rising crime and reduced police
:57:44. > :57:51.officers, and people cannot report crimes, people say they just give
:57:52. > :57:54.up. What has been interesting is, in terms of saying whether I'm right
:57:55. > :57:58.person for the job, the point is I am elected to do the job so I'm here
:57:59. > :58:02.to do it, and I will endeavour to do a good job while I am here. One of
:58:03. > :58:05.the things I'm looking to do is invest in police officers. My budget
:58:06. > :58:11.proposals go to the panel early February, co-produced with the
:58:12. > :58:18.police constable, which is realistic. The preset you mentioned,
:58:19. > :58:24.can you put a figure on that? The limit anyone can put it up is 2%, so
:58:25. > :58:29.if I was to put it up to the full amount, it is worth ?2 million to
:58:30. > :58:41.policing, around 40 officers. And council taxpayers pay for that? Yes,
:58:42. > :58:47.about ?4 a year. Two tinkering around with 2% or under, that all of
:58:48. > :58:51.the devious bodies are involved in, it is not working. Everything we
:58:52. > :58:55.spoke about today has been about, are we able to have libraries,
:58:56. > :58:59.police, the health service? Clearly we are going to have to start
:59:00. > :59:06.looking very seriously. I really do feel that a reported crime in
:59:07. > :59:11.Cornwall every day last year. That is serious. You have been in the job
:59:12. > :59:18.almost a year. Have you found the ongoing investigation into your
:59:19. > :59:23.expenses has hampered you? Not at all. One of the bits that has been a
:59:24. > :59:27.real positive out of it, I'm still under investigation, I had my
:59:28. > :59:31.interview 22nd December with the police who were doing a managed
:59:32. > :59:36.interview and a half of the IPCC, but interestingly, the positive
:59:37. > :59:40.about it is the publicity I have received because of it. I can walk
:59:41. > :59:48.down UK high street and I will get stopped by people who want my help.
:59:49. > :59:51.It must be really tough to be sitting with an investigation going
:59:52. > :59:59.on. I would urge you to consider standing aside to enable somebody
:00:00. > :00:04.else to take control. That is ridiculous. There is integrity in an
:00:05. > :00:07.election. I have to stop you both. Thanks to both of my
:00:08. > :00:10.have to do this. Thank you to you both.
:00:11. > :00:20.What exactly is the government's industrial strategy?
:00:21. > :00:24.Will ministers lose their supreme court battle over Brexit, and,
:00:25. > :00:36.Well, tomorrow Theresa May is launching the government's
:00:37. > :00:40.industrial strategy - and to talk about that we're joined
:00:41. > :00:47.by the Business Minister, Margot James - welcome to the show.
:00:48. > :00:55.When you look at what has already been released in advance of the
:00:56. > :01:00.Prime Minister's statement, it was embargoed for last night, it's not
:01:01. > :01:04.really an industrial strategy, it's just another skills strategy, of
:01:05. > :01:11.which we have had about six since the war, and our skills training is
:01:12. > :01:16.among the worst in Western Europe? There will be plenty more to be
:01:17. > :01:19.announced tomorrow in what is really a discussion document in the
:01:20. > :01:24.preparation of an industrial strategy which we intend to launch
:01:25. > :01:32.properly later in the year. Let's look at skills. You are allocating
:01:33. > :01:38.117 of funding to establish institutes of technology. How many?
:01:39. > :01:44.The exact number is to be agreed, but the spend is there, and it will
:01:45. > :01:47.be on top of what we are doing to the university, technical
:01:48. > :01:54.colleges... How many were lit bio create? We don't know exactly, but
:01:55. > :01:58.we want to put them in areas where young people are performing under
:01:59. > :02:05.the national average. But if you don't know how many, what is the
:02:06. > :02:08.basis of 170 million? That is the amount the Treasury have released.
:02:09. > :02:13.The something that is very important, we are agreed we need to
:02:14. > :02:19.devote more resources to vocational training and get it on a par with
:02:20. > :02:25.academic qualifications. I looked on the website of my old university,
:02:26. > :02:30.the University of Glasgow, the Russell group universities. Its
:02:31. > :02:38.spending budget every year is over 600 million. That's one University.
:02:39. > :02:43.And yet you have a mere 170 million foreign unspecified number of
:02:44. > :02:48.institutes of technology. It hasn't got equality with the academics? You
:02:49. > :02:52.have to remember that just as you have quoted figures from Glasgow
:02:53. > :02:57.University there are further education colleges all over the
:02:58. > :03:05.country. The government is already spending on 16 to 19-year-olds. But
:03:06. > :03:10.also, we are going to be adding... This is new money that is all to the
:03:11. > :03:16.good, because we are already spending a lot. We have already
:03:17. > :03:20.created 2 million more apprentices since 2010. That many are not in
:03:21. > :03:25.what we would call the stem skills, and a lot come nowhere near what the
:03:26. > :03:31.Dutch, Germans and Austrians would have. I'm not clear how another 170
:03:32. > :03:35.million would do. You said it is more than skills. In what way is
:03:36. > :03:47.this industrial strategy different from what Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne
:03:48. > :03:49.did before? It's different because it is involving every single
:03:50. > :03:51.government department, and bringing together everything that government
:03:52. > :03:54.does in a bid to make Britain more competitive as it disengages from
:03:55. > :04:00.the European Union. That is what the last Labour government did. They
:04:01. > :04:04.will much more targeted interventions. Under the Labour
:04:05. > :04:09.government, the auto industry got some benefit. A few more sectors
:04:10. > :04:14.were broached under the coalition government. This is all about
:04:15. > :04:18.communities all over the country, some of whom have fallen behind in
:04:19. > :04:24.terms of wage growth and good jobs. The Prime Minister has already
:04:25. > :04:31.announced 2 billion as a research and development priority in specific
:04:32. > :04:35.technologies, robotics, artificial intelligence, medical technology,
:04:36. > :04:41.satellites... So you are doing what has been done before. There is
:04:42. > :04:46.nothing new about this. Wait until tomorrow, because there will be some
:04:47. > :04:49.new strands emerging. It is the beginning of the dialogue with
:04:50. > :04:55.industry and with workers, and the responses will be invited up until
:04:56. > :05:01.April. That will inform a wider strategy that goes beyond skills. I
:05:02. > :05:06.have moved on to beyond them. I'm slightly puzzled as to how the
:05:07. > :05:11.government knows where to invest in robotics, when it can't even provide
:05:12. > :05:16.the NHS with a decent IT system. Discuss. I have to say I find it
:05:17. > :05:19.bizarre that the government is making an announcement about an
:05:20. > :05:24.amount of money and don't know where it's going. This is typical of all
:05:25. > :05:30.governments over all political shoes, which is total disregard for
:05:31. > :05:38.technical education, so different from Germany, who actually invest in
:05:39. > :05:45.the technological side. Germany has a long history. We want to emulate
:05:46. > :05:50.some of the best of what German companies do. Siemens sponsor
:05:51. > :05:55.primary schools, for example. We want to get a dialogue on with
:05:56. > :06:00.business. We don't want to decide where this money is going. By the
:06:01. > :06:06.way, it was 4.7 billion that the government has agreed to invest in
:06:07. > :06:09.science and research, which is the most significant increase in
:06:10. > :06:14.decades. Can you remind us what happened in Northern Ireland, when
:06:15. > :06:17.the government invested money in state-of-the-art technology for
:06:18. > :06:25.energy? No one needs to be reminded of that, and that is not what we are
:06:26. > :06:30.doing. We are inviting business and industry to advise where that money
:06:31. > :06:35.is best spent. That's very different from government deciding that a
:06:36. > :06:40.particular technology is for the future. The government's chief
:06:41. > :06:46.scientific adviser has determined that we will invest a huge amount in
:06:47. > :06:51.battery technology, which should benefit the electric car industry,
:06:52. > :06:58.and... This is taxpayers' money. Who gets it? Ultimately, business will
:06:59. > :07:03.get it, but often only when there is a considerable amount of private
:07:04. > :07:11.sector finance also drawn in. But who is held to account? Various
:07:12. > :07:15.government departments at local authorities will hold this list to
:07:16. > :07:22.account. A lot of it is about releasing private capital as well.
:07:23. > :07:29.Thank you very much. This week, the Supreme Court, I think we know the
:07:30. > :07:33.ruling is coming on Tuesday. And the expectation is that the judges will
:07:34. > :07:39.say Parliament will have to vote to trigger. Is this all much ado about
:07:40. > :07:42.nothing? Parliament will vote to trigger, and the government will win
:07:43. > :07:46.in the Lords and the Commons by substantial majorities, and it will
:07:47. > :07:52.be triggered? Completely. We've known that. Parliament is voted.
:07:53. > :07:55.Everyone is pretty confident that the Supreme Court will uphold the
:07:56. > :08:04.High Court's decision and say it has to go to MPs. There will be a bit of
:08:05. > :08:10.toing and froing among MPs on amendments. You heard Diane Abbott's
:08:11. > :08:14.slightly car crash interview there. The Lib Dems may throw something in,
:08:15. > :08:21.but we will trigger Article 50 by the end of March. If it also says
:08:22. > :08:26.that the roll of Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast should be picked up,
:08:27. > :08:30.that could complicate matters. Absolutely. That could delay the
:08:31. > :08:34.planned triggering of Article 50 before the end of March. Not what
:08:35. > :08:39.they say about the Westminster Parliament, because it is clear that
:08:40. > :08:44.it was. I never understood the furore about that original judgment,
:08:45. > :08:49.because every MP made it clear they wouldn't block it. Even though Diane
:08:50. > :08:54.Abbott was evasive on several fronts, she said they wouldn't block
:08:55. > :08:58.it. You are right, if they give a vote, or give some authorisation for
:08:59. > :09:03.the Scottish Parliament and other devolved assemblies, that might
:09:04. > :09:09.delay the whole sequence. That is the only significant thing to watch
:09:10. > :09:14.out for. Watch out on Tuesday. Mrs May goes to Washington. It will be
:09:15. > :09:19.another movie in the making! I would suggest that she has a tricky line
:09:20. > :09:24.to follow. She has got to be seen to be taking advantage of the fact that
:09:25. > :09:29.there is a very pro-British, pro-Brexit president in the Oval
:09:30. > :09:34.Office, who I am told is prepared to expend political capital on this.
:09:35. > :09:46.But on the other hand, to make sure that she is not what we used to call
:09:47. > :09:50.Mr Blair, George Bush's poodle. It is very difficult, and who would not
:09:51. > :09:53.want to be a fly on the wall in that meeting! I can't think of anyone in
:09:54. > :09:58.the world who would despise Mr Trump more than Mrs May, and for him, he
:09:59. > :10:09.dislikes any woman who does not look like a supermodel, no disrespected
:10:10. > :10:13.Mrs May. Most of it is actually anti-EU, and I think we should
:10:14. > :10:18.capitalise it. Let's get the Queen to earn her money, roll out the red
:10:19. > :10:25.carpet, invite him to dinner, spend the night, what ever we need...
:10:26. > :10:30.Trump at Balmoral! Here is the issue, because the agenda is, as we
:10:31. > :10:35.heard from Ted Malloch earlier, that this is not an administration that
:10:36. > :10:38.has much time for the EU, EU integration or Germany. I think
:10:39. > :10:44.Germany will be the second biggest loser to begin with. They will not
:10:45. > :10:52.even give a date for Angela Merkel to meet the president. This is an
:10:53. > :11:00.opportunity for Mrs May... It is a huge. It could sideline talks of the
:11:01. > :11:07.punishment beating from Germany. The Trump presidency has completely
:11:08. > :11:11.changed the field on Brexit. Along came Donald Trump, and Theresa May
:11:12. > :11:16.has this incredible opportunity here. Not of her making, but she has
:11:17. > :11:22.played her cards well. To an officially be the EU emissary to
:11:23. > :11:27.Washington, to get some sort of broker going. That gives us huge
:11:28. > :11:31.extra leveraged in the Brexit negotiations. People around the
:11:32. > :11:35.world think Germany as a currency manipulator, that it is benefiting
:11:36. > :11:39.from an underpriced euro, hence the huge surplus it runs of America, and
:11:40. > :11:45.they think it is disgraceful that a country that runs a massive budget
:11:46. > :11:50.surplus spends only 1.2% of its GDP on defence, and America runs a
:11:51. > :11:57.massive deficit and needs to spend a lot more. He's going for Germany.
:11:58. > :12:01.And what a massive shift. I think Obama was quite open, in a farewell
:12:02. > :12:06.interview, that he felt closer to Merkel than any other European
:12:07. > :12:13.leader. And Jamie kind of reflected that in our discussion. Yes, that's
:12:14. > :12:18.very interesting discussion. I think she was the last person he spoke to
:12:19. > :12:24.in the White House, Obama. And now you are getting the onslaught from
:12:25. > :12:29.Trump. This Thatcher- Reagan imagery is dangerous, though. Blair was
:12:30. > :12:33.hypnotised by it and was too scared to criticise Bush, because he wanted
:12:34. > :12:39.to be seen in that light, and we know where that led. Cameron
:12:40. > :12:42.similarly with Obama, which presented him with problems, as
:12:43. > :12:49.Obama didn't regard him as his number one pin up in Europe. I would
:12:50. > :12:54.put a note of caution in there about the Thatcher - Reagan parallel.
:12:55. > :12:59.Everything Trump is doing now is different from before, so Mrs May
:13:00. > :13:05.should not have any of these previous relationships in her mind.
:13:06. > :13:13.That is not entirely true. Donald Trump aches to be the new Ronald
:13:14. > :13:16.Reagan. He may be impeached first! He sees her as the new Margaret
:13:17. > :13:24.Thatcher, and that may her leveraged with him. Thank you.
:13:25. > :13:29.We'll be back here at the same time next week, and you can catch up
:13:30. > :13:31.on all the latest political news on the Daily Politics,
:13:32. > :13:35.In the meantime, remember - if it's Sunday,
:13:36. > :14:14.It's just pain, but it doesn't feel like pain,
:14:15. > :14:37.it feels much more violent, dark and exciting.
:14:38. > :14:42.Join Michael Buerk as he explores the dishes fit for kings and queens.
:14:43. > :14:46.When it comes to extravagance, few monarchs can compete with George IV.
:14:47. > :14:50.If that was for breakfast, I dread to think what he had for dinner.