19/03/2017

:00:34. > :00:37.It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics.

:00:38. > :00:40.She faces huge political fights over Brexit, Scottish independence,

:00:41. > :00:53.After a tumultuous political week, we'll analyse the PM's prospects.

:00:54. > :00:55.With chatter increasing about a possible early General Election,

:00:56. > :01:00.Jeremy Corbyn's campaign chief joins me live.

:01:01. > :01:03.NHS bosses warn health services in England are facing "mission

:01:04. > :01:07.impossible" and waiting times for operations will rocket,

:01:08. > :01:10.unless hospitals are given more cash this year.

:01:11. > :01:21.In the south-west, is it a fail for Providers joins me live.

:01:22. > :01:23.In the south-west, is it a fail for fairer school funding? And anything

:01:24. > :01:25.less than All that to come before 12:15pm,

:01:26. > :01:35.and I'll also be talking to the former leader

:01:36. > :01:38.of the Liberal Democrats Nick Clegg from his party's spring

:01:39. > :01:40.conference in York. With me here in the studio,

:01:41. > :01:45.throughout the programme, three of the country's top political

:01:46. > :01:47.commentators: Tom Newton Dunn,

:01:48. > :01:53.Isabel Oakeshott and Steve Richards. They'll be tweeting their

:01:54. > :01:55.thoughts using #bbcsp. So, the political challenges facing

:01:56. > :01:58.Theresa May are stacking up. As well as negotiating

:01:59. > :02:03.Britain's exit from the EU, the PM must now deal with SNP

:02:04. > :02:07.demands for a second referendum on Scottish independence,

:02:08. > :02:11.backbenchers agitating against cuts to school budgets, and a humiliated

:02:12. > :02:14.Chancellor forced to u-turn on a key budget measure just one week

:02:15. > :02:19.after announcing it. Here's Adam Fleming

:02:20. > :02:21.on aturbulent political week Monday, 11:30am, TV crews gather

:02:22. > :02:38.in the residence of the First Minister of Scotland,

:02:39. > :02:39.who's got a surprise. She wants a vote on whether Scotland

:02:40. > :02:42.should leave the UK By taking the steps I have set out

:02:43. > :02:47.today I am ensuring that Scotland's future will be decided,

:02:48. > :02:49.not just by me, the Scottish Government,

:02:50. > :02:50.or the SNP, it will be decided

:02:51. > :02:52.by the people of Scotland. Westminster, 6:25pm

:02:53. > :03:02.the same day, MPs reject amendments to the legislation

:03:03. > :03:06.authorising the Prime Minister to The Bill ceremonially heads

:03:07. > :03:20.to the Lords where peers abandoned attempts to change it

:03:21. > :03:22.and it becomes law. But Downing Street doesn't trigger

:03:23. > :03:29.Article 50 as many had expected. Some say they were spooked

:03:30. > :03:31.by Nicola Sturgeon. We get an e-mail from

:03:32. > :03:48.the Treasury can the We get an e-mail from

:03:49. > :03:49.the Treasury cancelling the planned rise in

:03:50. > :04:01.National Insurance for the self-employed

:04:02. > :04:02.announced the budget. It's just minutes before

:04:03. > :04:04.Prime Minister's Questions at noon. The trend towards greater

:04:05. > :04:06.self-employment does create a We will bring forward

:04:07. > :04:09.further proposals but we will not bring forward

:04:10. > :04:12.increases to NICs later in this It seems to me like a government

:04:13. > :04:16.in a bit of chaos here. By making this change today

:04:17. > :04:19.we are listening to our colleagues fulfil both the letter

:04:20. > :04:22.and the spirit of our manifesto tax Thursday, 7am, Conservative

:04:23. > :04:32.campaign HQ and the Electoral Commission fines the party

:04:33. > :04:34.?70,000 for misreporting spending But that's not what

:04:35. > :04:37.the Prime Minister Because at 12:19pm she

:04:38. > :04:43.gives her verdict on a We should be working

:04:44. > :04:48.together, not pulling apart. We should be working

:04:49. > :04:50.together to get that right deal for Scotland,

:04:51. > :04:51.that So, as I say, that's my job

:04:52. > :04:56.as Prime Minister and so for that reason I say to the SNP

:04:57. > :05:00.now is not the time. Friday and time for

:05:01. > :05:02.the faithful to gather. SNP activists at their

:05:03. > :05:04.spring conference Conservatives in Cardiff

:05:05. > :05:14.to hear the Prime Minister promote her plan for a more

:05:15. > :05:18.meritocratic Brexit Britain. At 11:10am comes some news

:05:19. > :05:20.about a newspaper that's frankly I'm thrilled and excited to be

:05:21. > :05:27.the new editor of The Evening Standard and,

:05:28. > :05:29.you know, with so many big issues in our world

:05:30. > :05:31.what good analysis, great news

:05:32. > :05:36.journalism. It's a really important time

:05:37. > :05:41.for good journalism that The Evening Standard

:05:42. > :05:43.is going to provide. There was no let-up yesterday

:05:44. > :05:50.as Gordon Brown launched proposals Under my proposals

:05:51. > :05:55.we keep the Barnett Formula, we keep the fiscal

:05:56. > :05:58.transfers, but we also bring the and fisheries back to the Scottish

:05:59. > :06:03.Parliament. And just think, all this and we're

:06:04. > :06:22.still counting down to the What a week in politics. It has been

:06:23. > :06:25.a torrid week for the government, Isabel Oakeshott, but does Theresa

:06:26. > :06:29.May shake it off, or is this a sign of worse to come? We may all be

:06:30. > :06:36.feeling a bit breathless after the events of last week and we are in

:06:37. > :06:40.for a a long war of attrition with the SNP, Nicola Sturgeon's strategy

:06:41. > :06:45.will be to foster over lengthy periods of time as much resentment

:06:46. > :06:51.and anger as she can in Scotland and try to create the impression that

:06:52. > :06:55.independence is somehow inevitable. Is Scotland the biggest challenge

:06:56. > :06:58.for Theresa May in the next year or so? I think it probably is because

:06:59. > :07:02.if you look at how relatively easily the Brexit bill went through on an

:07:03. > :07:05.issue where people could hardly feel more passionate in the Commons, and

:07:06. > :07:09.actually despite all the potential drama it has gone through quite

:07:10. > :07:14.smoothly. To go back to your original question, she just carries

:07:15. > :07:19.on. Don't underestimate the basic quiet and will towards Theresa May

:07:20. > :07:22.amongst the majority of Tory backbenchers. Yes, there are

:07:23. > :07:26.difficult little issues over school funding, sorry, it's not a little

:07:27. > :07:31.issue, it is a big one but she will get over that and treat each thing

:07:32. > :07:34.as it comes and keep pressing on. Has she not called Nicola Sturgeon's

:07:35. > :07:40.Bluff in that the First Minister said I want a referendum, here is

:07:41. > :07:45.roughly when I wanted, the Prime Minister says you're not having one.

:07:46. > :07:48.What happens next? She has done quite well and impact the progress

:07:49. > :07:53.Theresa May made this week in frustrating Nicola Sturgeon was

:07:54. > :07:56.evident when Nicola Sturgeon said, OK, maybe we can talk about the

:07:57. > :08:00.timing after. Nicola Sturgeon has already been the first one to blink.

:08:01. > :08:03.I would slightly disagree with Isabel Oakeshott, I don't agree

:08:04. > :08:09.Scotland will be the biggest hurdle for her. What this week showed as is

:08:10. > :08:13.Theresa May... It was a reality bites week. Theresa May is juggling

:08:14. > :08:16.four mammoth crises at the same time, Brexit obviously which I still

:08:17. > :08:23.think will be the biggest challenge to get a good deal, Trump left field

:08:24. > :08:27.who popped up at GCHQ on Friday and Scotland and the fiscal challenge,

:08:28. > :08:34.this enormous great problem, and it reinforced the point this is not an

:08:35. > :08:37.easy time in politics. The budget is over four years. That was one small

:08:38. > :08:41.problem, the immediate problem is how to fill the social care crisis

:08:42. > :08:44.and the ageing demographic. This is not normal times in British politics

:08:45. > :08:47.and Theresa May does not have a normal workload on her plate, hence

:08:48. > :08:51.why I think we will see more mistakes made as time goes on and as

:08:52. > :08:57.she has this almost impossible workload to juggle. How tempted do

:08:58. > :09:02.you think the Prime Minister is to call an early election? There is

:09:03. > :09:06.more chatter about it now. Is she tempted and if there is will she

:09:07. > :09:09.succumb? I will answer that in a second as Harold Wilson used to say.

:09:10. > :09:12.I want to agree, disagree with the rest of the panel about how she has

:09:13. > :09:18.out manipulated Nicola Sturgeon this week. I think Nicola Sturgeon

:09:19. > :09:20.expected Theresa May to say no to her expected timetable. It would be

:09:21. > :09:26.amazing if she had said yes. She expected her to say no but Sturgeon

:09:27. > :09:32.catalyst that will fuel support for her cause. There is no sign of that.

:09:33. > :09:36.The latest poll this morning shows 66-44 against independence and only

:09:37. > :09:40.13% think they would be better off with an independent Scotland and a

:09:41. > :09:44.clear majority do not want a second referendum. But the calculation of

:09:45. > :09:48.resistance from Westminster combined with Brexit which hasn't started

:09:49. > :09:52.yet, I think this is her calculation, she didn't expect

:09:53. > :09:57.Theresa May to say, sure, go ahead, I'm sure she expected Theresa May to

:09:58. > :10:01.say no, you can't have it at your desired timetable. On the wider

:10:02. > :10:04.point, I think Theresa May is in a fascinating position, she is both

:10:05. > :10:08.strong because she faces weak opposition and is ahead in the

:10:09. > :10:13.opinion polls. But faces the most daunting agenda of any Prime

:10:14. > :10:18.Minister for 40 or 50 years, I think. So it's a weird combination.

:10:19. > :10:21.I don't think she wants to call an election. I don't think she has

:10:22. > :10:25.thought about how you would manipulate it, what the trigger

:10:26. > :10:29.would be, and whether she's got the energy and space to prepare for and

:10:30. > :10:34.then mount a campaign was beginning the Brexit negotiation. Now, you

:10:35. > :10:38.could see the cause would be the small majorities that will make her

:10:39. > :10:42.life hellish, which it will do. Whether a landslide would help is

:10:43. > :10:45.another question, they can be difficult too. But I think the

:10:46. > :10:50.problems outweigh the advantages of going early. Do you think she would

:10:51. > :10:54.go for an early election? I don't and I think you have to look at the

:10:55. > :10:58.rhetoric coming out of No 10 which is so firm on this question, it is a

:10:59. > :11:00.delicious prospect for us as commentators to think there might be

:11:01. > :11:05.an election around the corner but they are so firm on this I can't see

:11:06. > :11:08.it happening. I agree, we are in unanimous agreement on this one. It

:11:09. > :11:11.is superficially attractive because she would love the big majority and

:11:12. > :11:15.she would get a lot more through Parliament especially with Brexit.

:11:16. > :11:18.The nitty-gritty of it makes an early General Election this year

:11:19. > :11:25.almost impossible. How do you write a manifesto on high Brexit versus

:11:26. > :11:29.soft Brexit, it opens up a Pandora's box of uncertainties. And there is

:11:30. > :11:32.enough with the European elections. The EU will say are we negotiating

:11:33. > :11:36.with you or the person who may replace you? How do you keep the

:11:37. > :11:39.Tory party united going to an election? How do you call one, with

:11:40. > :11:44.a vote of no confidence in yourself you may end up losing. Easy on paper

:11:45. > :11:45.but difficult in practice. We shall see.

:11:46. > :11:48.So if Theresa May did go for an early election this spring,

:11:49. > :11:52.The party's campaigns and elections chief Andrew Gwynne

:11:53. > :12:00.Andrew Gwynne, the government, as we have just been talking about,

:12:01. > :12:03.executed one of the most embarrassing U-turns in recent

:12:04. > :12:08.history this week. It has been a torrid time for the Theresa May

:12:09. > :12:10.government. Why are the Tories still so chipper?

:12:11. > :12:15.The Labour Party has been on an early election footing since before

:12:16. > :12:19.Christmas and we are preparing ourselves for that eventuality in

:12:20. > :12:24.case that does come. That means that we've got to get ourselves into a

:12:25. > :12:28.position whereby we can not only challenge the government but we can

:12:29. > :12:35.also offer a valuable alternative for the British people to choose

:12:36. > :12:39.from should that election arise. So, would you welcome an early General

:12:40. > :12:42.Election? Well, of course, I don't want this government to be in power

:12:43. > :12:45.so of course if there is an opportunity to put a case to the

:12:46. > :12:50.British people as to why there is a better way, and I believe the Labour

:12:51. > :12:54.way is the better way than of course we would want to put that case to

:12:55. > :13:00.the country. So, would Labour vote in the Commons for an early

:13:01. > :13:04.election? Well, of course as an opposition, not wanting to be in

:13:05. > :13:08.opposition, wanting to be in government should the government put

:13:09. > :13:12.forward a measure in accordance with the Fixed-term Parliaments Act then

:13:13. > :13:14.that's something we would very seriously have to consider. I know

:13:15. > :13:18.you would have to consider it but would you vote for an early election

:13:19. > :13:23.or not? Well, of course we want to be the government so if the current

:13:24. > :13:26.government puts forward measures to bring forward a General Election we

:13:27. > :13:29.would want to put our case to the British public and that's one of the

:13:30. > :13:35.jobs that I've been given, together Labour Party organisation early into

:13:36. > :13:39.a position where we can fight a General Election --

:13:40. > :13:44.organisationally. For the avoidance of doubt, if the Government work to

:13:45. > :13:47.issue a motion in the Commons for an early election, the Labour Party

:13:48. > :13:51.would vote for an early election? It would be very difficult not,

:13:52. > :13:55.Andrew. If the Government wants to dissolve parliament, wants a General

:13:56. > :13:58.Election, we don't want the Tories in government, we want to be in

:13:59. > :14:01.government and we want to have that opportunity to put that case to the

:14:02. > :14:11.British people. Are you ready for an early election?

:14:12. > :14:13.You say you have been on a war all but since the Labour conference last

:14:14. > :14:16.autumn, but are you ready for one? How big is the election fighting

:14:17. > :14:19.fund? We have substantial amounts of money in our fighting fund, that is

:14:20. > :14:27.true, because not only has the Labour Party managed to eliminate

:14:28. > :14:30.its own financial deficit that it inherited from previous election

:14:31. > :14:37.campaigns, we have also managed to build up a substantial fund in the

:14:38. > :14:42.off chance we have an election. We have also expanded massively

:14:43. > :14:46.operations at Labour HQ, we are taking on additional staff, and one

:14:47. > :14:50.of the jobs that myself and Ian Lavery who I job share with are

:14:51. > :14:53.currently doing is to go around the Parliamentary Labour Party to make

:14:54. > :14:58.sure that Labour colleagues have the support and the resources that they

:14:59. > :15:01.need, should they have to face the electorate in their constituencies.

:15:02. > :15:05.So you are on a war footing, ready for the fight, you say you would

:15:06. > :15:12.vote for the fight, so have you got your tax and spend policies ready to

:15:13. > :15:15.roll out? That is something the shadow Treasury team will be

:15:16. > :15:18.discussing. One of the things is, if there is an early General Election,

:15:19. > :15:23.the normal timetable for these things gets fast-track because our

:15:24. > :15:28.policy decision-making body, its annual conference, we have the

:15:29. > :15:31.national policy forum that creates policies suggestions. You have been

:15:32. > :15:35.on a war footing since the last Labour conference, that is what Mr

:15:36. > :15:40.Corbyn told us. So you must have a fair idea of what policies you would

:15:41. > :15:44.fight an early election on. How much extra per year would you spend on

:15:45. > :15:49.the NHS? Well, look, I'm not going to set out the Labour manifesto for

:15:50. > :15:53.an election that hasn't been called. I'm just asking you about the NHS.

:15:54. > :15:59.You must have a policy for that. We have a policy for the NHS. So how

:16:00. > :16:02.much extra? I will not set out Labour's tax-and-spend policies here

:16:03. > :16:06.on The Sunday Politics when there hasn't even been election called.

:16:07. > :16:12.You said you had been on a war footing and you are prepared to vote

:16:13. > :16:16.for one, so if you can't Tommy that, can you tell me what the corporation

:16:17. > :16:23.rate tax on company profits be under a Labour government -- tell me that.

:16:24. > :16:27.You will have to be patient. I have. And wait for Mrs May to trigger an

:16:28. > :16:31.early election. If there is an election on the 4th of May the rich

:16:32. > :16:35.would have to be issued on the 27th of March, so that's not long to

:16:36. > :16:40.wait. If that date passes we aren't having an election on the 4th of May

:16:41. > :16:44.and the normal timetable for policy development will continue. All

:16:45. > :16:49.right. You lost Copeland, I think you were in charge of a by-election

:16:50. > :16:54.for Labour, your national poll ratings are still dire, even after

:16:55. > :16:58.week of terrible times for the Tories. Sometimes you even lose

:16:59. > :17:02.local government by-elections in safe seats, including in the place

:17:03. > :17:08.you are now, in Salford. How long does Mr Corbyn have to turn this

:17:09. > :17:11.around? Well, look, the issue of the Labour leadership was settled last

:17:12. > :17:15.year. The last thing the Labour Party now needs is another period of

:17:16. > :17:22.introspection with the Labour Party merely talks to the Labour Party. We

:17:23. > :17:25.are now on an election footing in case Mrs May does trigger an early

:17:26. > :17:31.General Election. We need to be talking to the British people are

:17:32. > :17:35.not to ourselves. So any speculation about the Labour leadership might

:17:36. > :17:39.excite you in the media but actually for us in the Labour Party it's

:17:40. > :17:43.about re-engaging and reconnecting with the voters. Rather than being

:17:44. > :17:49.excited, I feel quite daunted at the prospect of an early election. So I

:17:50. > :17:53.wouldn't get that right. Normally, given the number of mistakes this

:17:54. > :17:55.government has made, and its mid-term, you would expect any

:17:56. > :18:00.self-respecting opposition to be about ten points ahead. On the

:18:01. > :18:07.latest polls this morning you are 17 behind. There is a 27-30 point gap

:18:08. > :18:11.from where you should normally be as an opposition. Are you telling me

:18:12. > :18:12.that if that doesn't change, you still fight the General Election

:18:13. > :18:22.with Mr Corbyn? These are matters for the future. I

:18:23. > :18:28.believe the leadership issue was settled last year. We have had two

:18:29. > :18:32.leadership contest in two years. Would you seriously contemplate

:18:33. > :18:37.going into the next election, if it is early I perfectly understand

:18:38. > :18:41.Jeremy Corbyn is your man, but if it is not until 2020, and you are still

:18:42. > :18:46.17 points behind in the polls, will you go into the next election like

:18:47. > :18:55.that? There is a lot of future looking and speculation there, I

:18:56. > :18:58.don't know what the future holds, where the Labour Party will be in 12

:18:59. > :19:01.months let alone by 2020 summit cross those bridges when we come to

:19:02. > :19:04.it. My main challenge is to make sure the Labour Party is in the best

:19:05. > :19:07.possible place organisationally to fight an election, that's my

:19:08. > :19:11.challenge and I'm up for that to make sure we are in the best

:19:12. > :19:16.possible place to make sure Labour returns as many Labour MPs as

:19:17. > :19:21.possible. Thank you for joining us. And we're joined now

:19:22. > :19:23.from the Liberal Democrats' spring conference in York by the former

:19:24. > :19:33.Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg. Good morning. In his conference

:19:34. > :19:36.speech today, Tim Farron lumps Theresa May with Vladimir Putin,

:19:37. > :19:46.Marine Le Pen and Donald Trump. In what way is Mrs May similar to

:19:47. > :19:49.Marine Le Pen? Of course he is not saying Theresa May is identical to

:19:50. > :19:55.Marine Le Pen, I think what Tim Wilby spelling out shortly in his

:19:56. > :19:58.speech is that we need to be aware what's going on in the world, the

:19:59. > :20:08.International settlement that was arrived at after the First World --

:20:09. > :20:13.Second World War, that bound supranational organisations is under

:20:14. > :20:18.attack from characters as diverse as Vladimir Putin, Marine Le Pen and

:20:19. > :20:22.Donald Trump, and that by side in so ostentatiously with Donald Trump and

:20:23. > :20:27.pursuing this very hard Brexit, Theresa May appears to be giving

:20:28. > :20:30.succour to that much more isolationist chauvinist view of the

:20:31. > :20:36.world than the multilateral approach that Britain has subscribed to for a

:20:37. > :20:42.long time. The exact words he plans to use are welcome to the New World

:20:43. > :20:49.order, Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump, Marine Le Pen, Theresa May,

:20:50. > :20:55.aggressive and teenage to, anti-EU, nationalistic. In what way is Mrs

:20:56. > :21:00.May fitting into any of that? In what way is she similar to Vladimir

:21:01. > :21:04.Putin? I'm not aware she has interfered with other people's

:21:05. > :21:11.elections. The clue is in the quote you just read out, which is the

:21:12. > :21:14.world order. The world order over the last half century or more, by

:21:15. > :21:18.the way a lesson I'm afraid we have to learn in Europe because of the

:21:19. > :21:24.terrible bloodshed of two world was in the space of a few decades, was

:21:25. > :21:27.based on the idea might is not right. Strong arm leaders cannot

:21:28. > :21:36.throw their weight around. What we have now with Putin, the populism

:21:37. > :21:41.across parts of Europe and Donald Trump who thinks the EU will unravel

:21:42. > :21:47.is a shift to a radically different view of the world. Mrs May doesn't

:21:48. > :21:52.think any of that. She is not antenatal, not anti-EU, she says she

:21:53. > :21:57.wants the EU to succeed. She's not aggressive as far as I'm aware so

:21:58. > :22:04.I'm not sure why you would lump the British Prime Minister in with these

:22:05. > :22:09.other characters. Let me explain, by choosing this uncompromising

:22:10. > :22:15.approach to Brexit, clearly in doing so she, in my view, maybe not yours

:22:16. > :22:19.or others, is pursuing a self harming approach to the United

:22:20. > :22:24.Kingdom but also pulling up the threads that bind the rest of the

:22:25. > :22:29.European Union together, in so ostentatiously siding with Donald

:22:30. > :22:37.Trump, somehow declaring in my view speciously that we can make up with

:22:38. > :22:41.the trade we will lose, she's not challenging the shift to a more

:22:42. > :22:46.chauvinist approach to world affairs that is happening in many places.

:22:47. > :22:51.You are at your party's Spring conference, I think we can agree any

:22:52. > :22:57.Lib Dem come back will take a long time. Would Tory dominance be more

:22:58. > :22:59.effectively challenged by a realignment of the centre and the

:23:00. > :23:05.centre-left? Are you working towards that? I missed half the question but

:23:06. > :23:12.I think you are talking about a realignment. As a cook a way to get

:23:13. > :23:18.over Tory dominance, would you want that to happen? Are you working

:23:19. > :23:22.towards that? My view is the recovery of the Lib Dems will be

:23:23. > :23:26.quicker than you suggest. People often forget that even the low point

:23:27. > :23:31.of our fortunes in the last election we still got a million more votes

:23:32. > :23:40.than the SNP, it's only because we have got this crazy electoral

:23:41. > :23:46.system... But the SNP fight in Scotland, you fight in the whole

:23:47. > :23:53.country! But I'm saying the way seats are allocated overlooks the

:23:54. > :23:58.fact that 2.5 million still voted for us. But my own view is of course

:23:59. > :24:01.there are people feeling increasingly homeless in the liberal

:24:02. > :24:06.wing of the Conservative Party because they are now in a party

:24:07. > :24:12.which is in effect indistinguishable from Ukip on some of the biggest

:24:13. > :24:15.issues of the day, and homeless folk on the rational, reasonable wing of

:24:16. > :24:20.the Labour Party. I would invite them to join the Liberal Democrats

:24:21. > :24:24.and I would invite everyone across parties to talk about the idea is

:24:25. > :24:30.that bind us because the Westminster village can invest a lot of energy

:24:31. > :24:33.building new castles in the sky, inventing new names for parties when

:24:34. > :24:40.actually what you want is for people on the progressive centre ground of

:24:41. > :24:47.British politics to talk about the ideas that unite them, from the

:24:48. > :24:54.dilemmas of artificial intelligence to climate change. Do you think in

:24:55. > :25:01.your own view, can Brexit still be thwarted or is it now a matter of

:25:02. > :25:06.getting the best terms? I think we are in an interlude, almost a calm

:25:07. > :25:10.between two storms, the storm of the referendum itself and the collision

:25:11. > :25:14.between the Government's stated ambitions for Brexit and the reality

:25:15. > :25:19.of having to negotiate something unworkable with 27 other

:25:20. > :25:22.governments. The one thing I can guarantee you is that what the

:25:23. > :25:35.Government has promised to the British people cannot happen. Over a

:25:36. > :25:39.slower period of time we will work out our new relationship with the

:25:40. > :25:46.European Union. Theresa May said she will settle divorce arrangements,

:25:47. > :25:50.and pensions, so one, negotiate new trade agreements, new climate change

:25:51. > :25:54.policies and so on, and have all of that ratified within two years, that

:25:55. > :26:00.will not happen so I think there will be a lot of turbulence in the

:26:01. > :26:05.next couple of years. Will you use this turbulence to try to thwart

:26:06. > :26:11.Brexit, to find a way of rolling back the decision? It's not about

:26:12. > :26:15.repeating the debates of the past or thwarting the will of the people but

:26:16. > :26:19.it is comparing what people were promised from the ?350 million for

:26:20. > :26:26.the NHS every week through to this glittering array of new trade

:26:27. > :26:30.agreements we will sign across the world, with the reality that will

:26:31. > :26:34.transpire in the next couple of years and at that point, yes it is

:26:35. > :26:39.my belief people should be able to take a second look at if that is

:26:40. > :26:47.what they really want. A couple of quick questions, would you welcome

:26:48. > :26:52.an early general election? I always welcome them, we couldn't do worse

:26:53. > :26:56.than we did last time. That is certainly true. You have a column in

:26:57. > :27:00.the Evening Standard, have you spoken to the new editor about

:27:01. > :27:09.whether he will keep your column or spike it? No, I wait in nervous

:27:10. > :27:16.anticipation. Can you be a newspaper editor in the morning and an MP in

:27:17. > :27:21.the afternoon? Do I think that's feasible? Sorry, I missed a bit.

:27:22. > :27:27.There is no prohibition, no law against MPs being editors. They have

:27:28. > :27:33.been in the past and no doubt will again in the future. He is taking a

:27:34. > :27:38.lot on, he is an editor, also wanting to be an MP, a jetsetting

:27:39. > :27:43.academic in the States, working in the city, I suspect something will

:27:44. > :27:47.give. It seems to me even by his self-confidence standards in his own

:27:48. > :27:53.abilities I suspect he is taking on a little bit too much. Very

:27:54. > :27:55.diplomatic, Mr Clegg, I'm sure you will get to keep the column. Thanks

:27:56. > :27:59.for joining us. Now, for the last six months

:28:00. > :28:02.England's NHS bosses have been warning the health service needs

:28:03. > :28:04.more money to help it meet But in his first Budget,

:28:05. > :28:07.the Chancellor offered no immediate relief,

:28:08. > :28:09.and today the head of the organisation representing

:28:10. > :28:11.England's NHS trusts says hundreds of thousands of patients will have

:28:12. > :28:14.to wait longer for both emergency care and planned operations,

:28:15. > :28:16.unless the Government Warnings over funding

:28:17. > :28:23.are not exactly new. Back in 2014 the head of the NHS

:28:24. > :28:26.in England, Simon Stevens, published his plan for the future

:28:27. > :28:31.of the health service. In his five-year forward view,

:28:32. > :28:34.Stevens said the NHS in England would face a funding shortfall of up

:28:35. > :28:37.to ?30 billion by 2020. To bridge that gap he said the NHS

:28:38. > :28:40.would need more money from the Government,

:28:41. > :28:43.at least ?8 billion extra, and that the health service

:28:44. > :28:46.could account for the rest by making The Government says it's given

:28:47. > :28:53.the health service more than what it asked for, and that NHS

:28:54. > :28:56.in England will have received That number is disputed by NHS

:28:57. > :29:01.managers and the chair of Parliament's health committee,

:29:02. > :29:04.who say the figure is more like ?4.5 billion, while other parts

:29:05. > :29:07.of the health and social care budget have been cut, putting

:29:08. > :29:13.pressure on the front line. Last year, two thirds of NHS

:29:14. > :29:16.trusts in England finished the year in the red,

:29:17. > :29:18.and despite emergency bailouts from the Government,

:29:19. > :29:20.the NHS is likely to record Meanwhile national targets

:29:21. > :29:25.on waiting times for A departments, diagnostic tests,

:29:26. > :29:28.and operations are being This month's Budget provided

:29:29. > :29:35.?2 billion for social care but there was no new cash

:29:36. > :29:39.for the NHS, leading trusts to warn that patient care is beginning

:29:40. > :29:42.to suffer, and what is being asked And I'm joined now by

:29:43. > :29:48.the Chief Executive of NHS Providers in England,

:29:49. > :29:59.Chris Hopson. Welcome to the programme. Morning,

:30:00. > :30:02.Andrew. I will come onto the extra money you need to do your job

:30:03. > :30:06.properly in a minute but first, part of the deal was you had to make 22

:30:07. > :30:11.billion in efficiency savings, not a bank that money but spend it on

:30:12. > :30:16.patient care, the front line, and so on. How is that going? So, last

:30:17. > :30:19.parliament we realised around 18 billion of productivity and

:30:20. > :30:23.efficiency savings, we are realising more this year so we are on course

:30:24. > :30:28.to realise 3 billion this year, that is a quarter of a billion more than

:30:29. > :30:32.last year but all of us in the NHS knew the 22 billion would be a very

:30:33. > :30:36.stretching target and we are somewhat inevitably falling short.

:30:37. > :30:47.So it is 22 billion by 2,020. Roughly. That was the time. We are

:30:48. > :30:51.now into 2017. So how much of the 22 billion have you achieved? We

:30:52. > :30:55.realised around 3 billion last year and we will realise 3 billion this

:30:56. > :31:01.year, Court of billion more, 3.25 billion this year, so we are on

:31:02. > :31:06.course for 18-19,000,000,000. By the 2021 period? You are not that far

:31:07. > :31:09.away. The problem is the degree to which demand is going up. We have

:31:10. > :31:14.record demand over the winter period and that actually meant we have seen

:31:15. > :31:18.more people than we have ever seen before but performance is still

:31:19. > :31:24.under real pressure. Let me come onto that. When you agreed on the 22

:31:25. > :31:28.billion efficiency savings plus some extra money from the government, I

:31:29. > :31:32.know there is a bit of an argument about how much that is actually

:31:33. > :31:38.worth, had you not factored in this extra demand that you saw coming

:31:39. > :31:42.over the next three or four years? Let's be very clear committee

:31:43. > :31:47.referred to Simon Stevens's forward view and we signed up to it but the

:31:48. > :31:49.22 billion was a process run at the centre of government by the

:31:50. > :31:53.Department of Health with its arms length bodies, NHS England and

:31:54. > :31:58.others and is not something that was consulted on with the NHS. But you

:31:59. > :32:04.signed up to it. We always said that the day that that Spending Review

:32:05. > :32:07.was announced, the idea that the NHS where customer demand goes up

:32:08. > :32:10.something like four or 5% every year, the idea that in the middle

:32:11. > :32:15.years of Parliament we would be able to provide the same level of service

:32:16. > :32:21.when we were only getting funding increases of 1.3%, 0.4% and 0.7%,

:32:22. > :32:25.and I can show you the press release we issued, we always said there was

:32:26. > :32:29.going to be a gap and that we would not be able to deliver what was

:32:30. > :32:35.required. The full 22 billion in other words? What we said to Simon

:32:36. > :32:39.Stevens at the Public Accounts Committee a few months ago, the NHS

:32:40. > :32:45.didn't get what it was asked for. Today the NHS, cope with the

:32:46. > :32:51.resources it has according to you. How much more does it need? Are

:32:52. > :32:54.reported is about 2017-18 and we estimate that what we are being

:32:55. > :32:58.asked to do, and again, Andrew, you clearly set it out in the package,

:32:59. > :33:03.we are a long way off the four-hour A target and a long way off the

:33:04. > :33:09.92%. The waiting times and operations. How much more do you

:33:10. > :33:11.need? And we are making up a ?900 million deficit. If you take all of

:33:12. > :33:17.those into account we estimate you would need an extra ?3.5 billion

:33:18. > :33:21.next year in order to deliver all of those targets and eliminate the

:33:22. > :33:25.deficit. That would be 3.5 billion on top of what is already planned

:33:26. > :33:30.next year and that would be 3.5 billion repeated in the years to

:33:31. > :33:33.come too? Yes, Andrew it is important we should make an

:33:34. > :33:38.important distinction about the NHS versus other public services. When

:33:39. > :33:41.the last government, the last Labour government put extra money into the

:33:42. > :33:46.NHS it clearly said that in return for that it would establish some

:33:47. > :33:50.standards in the NHS Constitution, the 95% A target we have talked

:33:51. > :33:55.about and the 92% elective surgery we have talked about. The trust we

:33:56. > :33:59.represent are very clear, they would want to realise those standards, but

:34:00. > :34:02.you can only do it if you pay for it. The problem is at the moment is

:34:03. > :34:07.we are in the longest and deepest financial squeeze in NHS history. As

:34:08. > :34:12.we have said, funding is only going up by 1% per year but every year

:34:13. > :34:18.just to stand still cost and demand go up by more than 4%. There is

:34:19. > :34:21.clearly a demand for more money. I think people watching this programme

:34:22. > :34:25.will think probably the NHS is going to have to get more money to meet

:34:26. > :34:30.the goals you have been given. I think they would also like to be

:34:31. > :34:34.sure that your Mac running the NHS as efficiently as it could be. We

:34:35. > :34:39.read this morning that trusts have got ?100 million of empty properties

:34:40. > :34:44.that cost 10 million to maintain, 36 office blocks are not being used,

:34:45. > :34:48.you have surplus land equivalent to 1800 football pitches. Yes, there

:34:49. > :34:54.are a number of things that we know in the NHS we need to do better but

:34:55. > :34:57.let me remind you, Andrew, in the last Parliament we realised ?18

:34:58. > :35:02.billion worth of cost improvement gains. We are going to realise

:35:03. > :35:08.another 3 billion this year, 0.25 billion more than last year so these

:35:09. > :35:11.things are being targeted. But having that surplus land, it is

:35:12. > :35:17.almost certainly in areas where there is a demand for housing.

:35:18. > :35:21.Absolutely. So why not release it for housing? You get the money, the

:35:22. > :35:24.people get their houses and its contribution and a signal that you

:35:25. > :35:29.are running NHS assets as efficiently as you can? Tell me if

:35:30. > :35:34.I'm going to too much detail for you. One of the reasons as to why

:35:35. > :35:37.our trusts are reluctant to realise those land sales is because there is

:35:38. > :35:42.an assumption that the money would go back to the Treasury and wouldn't

:35:43. > :35:45.benefit NHS trusts. You could make a deal, couldn't you? That's part of

:35:46. > :35:49.the conversation going on at the moment. The issue is that we would

:35:50. > :35:53.want to ensure that if we do release land, quite rightly the benefit,

:35:54. > :36:04.particularly in foundation trusts which are, as you will remember,

:36:05. > :36:06.deliberately autonomous organisations, that they should keep

:36:07. > :36:08.the benefit of those land sales. Have you raised that with the

:36:09. > :36:19.government? Yes we have. What did they say? They

:36:20. > :36:22.are in discussions of it. We heard somebody who moved from one job and

:36:23. > :36:27.then to another job and given a big salary and then almost ?200,000 as a

:36:28. > :36:31.payoff. There is a national mood for the NHS to get more money. But

:36:32. > :36:34.before you give anybody any more money you want to be sure that the

:36:35. > :36:38.money you have got already is being properly spent, which for us, is the

:36:39. > :36:43.patient at the end of the day. And yet there seem to be these enormous

:36:44. > :36:50.salaries and payoffs. I've worked in a FTSE 100 on the board of Her

:36:51. > :36:52.Majesty's Revenue and Customs and I have worked in large organisations.

:36:53. > :36:56.I can look you completely straight in the eye and tell you that the

:36:57. > :36:59.jobs that our hospital, community, mental health and ambulance chief

:37:00. > :37:03.Executives do are amongst the most complicated leadership roles I have

:37:04. > :37:06.ever seen. It doesn't seem to me to be unreasonable that in order to get

:37:07. > :37:10.the right quality of people we should pay an appropriate salary.

:37:11. > :37:15.The reality is the salaries are paid are not excessive when talking about

:37:16. > :37:18.managing budgets of over ?1 billion a year and talking about managing

:37:19. > :37:26.tens of thousands of staff. There was a doctor working as a locum that

:37:27. > :37:30.earned an extra ?375,000. One of the problems in the NHS is a mismatch

:37:31. > :37:33.between the number of staff we need and the number of staff coming

:37:34. > :37:38.through the pipeline. What is having to happen is if you want to keep a

:37:39. > :37:42.service going you have to use Mackem and agency staff. Even at that cost?

:37:43. > :37:48.You would not want to pay those amounts. But you are. The chief

:37:49. > :37:52.Executives's choice in those areas is giving the service open or

:37:53. > :37:56.employing a locum. I'm sure you could find a locum prepared to work

:37:57. > :38:02.for less than that. What indication, what hopes do you have of getting

:38:03. > :38:07.the extra ?3 billion? The government has been very clear, for the moment

:38:08. > :38:11.it wants to stick to the existing funding settlement it has agreed. So

:38:12. > :38:16.there was nothing in the budget. Can I finish by making one important

:38:17. > :38:21.point. Please, finish. This is the first time the NHS has said before

:38:22. > :38:25.the year has even started that we can't deliver on those standards. We

:38:26. > :38:30.believe, as do most people who work in the NHS, that the NHS is on a

:38:31. > :38:34.gradual slow decline. This is a very important inflection point to Mark,

:38:35. > :38:37.this is the first time before the financial year starts that we say we

:38:38. > :38:42.cannot meet the targets we are being asked to deliver and are in the NHS

:38:43. > :38:43.Constitution. We have run out of time. Chris Hopson, thank you for

:38:44. > :38:44.being with me. It's just gone 11:35am,

:38:45. > :38:46.you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers

:38:47. > :38:49.in Scotland who leave us now Coming up on the Sunday Politics

:38:50. > :39:05.here in the South West... Fishermen and Brexit -

:39:06. > :39:10.is it payback time? George Eustice and other ministers

:39:11. > :39:13.made a big play of fishing And I think they actually owe

:39:14. > :39:20.the fishing industry something. And for the next 20 minutes I'm

:39:21. > :39:23.joined by the Labour councillor and former MP Candy Atherton,

:39:24. > :39:25.and Farming and Fisheries Welcome, both of you,

:39:26. > :39:30.to the programme. The Chancellor's plan to increase

:39:31. > :39:33.National Insurance contributions from the self-employed survived

:39:34. > :39:36.for slightly less than a week in the face of opposition

:39:37. > :39:39.from Tory backbenchers. George, how did he get

:39:40. > :39:42.in such a mess over this? Look, a Budget, this

:39:43. > :39:46.can happen in Budgets. We all remember the pasty

:39:47. > :39:48.tax of a few years ago. It's one of the problems

:39:49. > :39:53.with a Budget, because there is a secrecy around them and then

:39:54. > :39:55.they are launched in Sometimes there is a bad

:39:56. > :39:58.reaction to them. I think in this one,

:39:59. > :40:01.what they have reflected on, given the fact there was opposition

:40:02. > :40:05.from a lot of our own backbenchers, given there was a manifesto

:40:06. > :40:07.commitment not to raise National Insurance -

:40:08. > :40:09.although it meant the class one National Insurance,

:40:10. > :40:12.not the self-employed one - they have taken the view that

:40:13. > :40:15.if they can't get it through Parliament,

:40:16. > :40:16.they should revisit this. That's what they are doing and

:40:17. > :40:19.that's what Parliament exists for. Candy, you did enjoy this,

:40:20. > :40:21.it appears, rather. But did Labour do enough as

:40:22. > :40:25.opposition, because the newspapers did seem to pick up on the fact that

:40:26. > :40:29.really it was the Tory backbenchers, And I of course have been calling

:40:30. > :40:33.on Tory backbenchers But we really didn't need

:40:34. > :40:38.to do anything this week. The Tories were quite capable

:40:39. > :40:40.of doing their own omnishambles. When you get these sorts

:40:41. > :40:47.of decisions, you just have to look at it and listen to Parliament

:40:48. > :40:50.and listen to your own backbenchers. The Chancellor now has a chance

:40:51. > :40:56.to look at it again and he will come back in the Autumn Statement

:40:57. > :40:58.with some revised plans. I think that's

:40:59. > :41:00.the right thing to do. That's democracy in action

:41:01. > :41:02.and people often say.... Could school funding, George,

:41:03. > :41:07.be the next issue to force Ministers are bringing

:41:08. > :41:11.in what is supposed to be a fairer way of sharing cash between schools

:41:12. > :41:14.in different parts of the country. The existing system disadvantaged

:41:15. > :41:17.areas like here in the south-west. But many are expecting to lose

:41:18. > :41:21.funding, and the plans are facing opposition from within Tory

:41:22. > :41:24.ranks yet again. The government says the new formula

:41:25. > :41:35.will help pupils who get free school meals and those living

:41:36. > :41:41.in disadvantaged areas. You can't actually put something

:41:42. > :41:44.forward showing it to be a benefit, when it has such an adverse effect

:41:45. > :41:49.on our schools and young people. I do feel cross and very

:41:50. > :41:53.frustrated at the work and the job I'm expected to do,

:41:54. > :41:56.with ever increasing No school avoids having a real

:41:57. > :42:02.terms cut per pupil. Quite simply, the pot is not big

:42:03. > :42:09.enough to benefit everybody. Schools in Devon already receive

:42:10. > :42:14.less funding per pupil than other So when the government announced

:42:15. > :42:20.it was considering a new formula to allocate money, there was hope

:42:21. > :42:22.this might be addressed. Instead, this school

:42:23. > :42:25.in Budleigh Salterton If the Fairer Funding Formula comes

:42:26. > :42:29.into effect, my school loses 2.5% of its budget,

:42:30. > :42:32.which is quite substantial. In reality, what that will mean

:42:33. > :42:37.is I have to do my best to cut things back as far as possible

:42:38. > :42:46.so that I can avoid to try Councils in Devon, Dorset

:42:47. > :42:50.and Somerset were among those who wrote to the Prime Minister

:42:51. > :42:52.to voice their concerns. Quite bluntly, I don't know how

:42:53. > :42:57.they managed to draw up a formula that has absolutely upset everybody

:42:58. > :43:01.throughout the Shire counties. Typically lower funded areas,

:43:02. > :43:05.perhaps are not seeing the gains Under the new formula,

:43:06. > :43:13.the games will go to the most Under the new formula,

:43:14. > :43:16.the gains will go to the most Not so according to

:43:17. > :43:19.the authors of a new report. The benefit that those

:43:20. > :43:21.schools would otherwise receive are being swamped

:43:22. > :43:23.by wider funding pressures. They are not recognising

:43:24. > :43:26.rural deprivation and And our pupils are just

:43:27. > :43:31.as disadvantaged, but in The Department for Education says

:43:32. > :43:39.a consultation is still taking place on how the funding

:43:40. > :43:41.formula is calculated. Are we facing another policy

:43:42. > :43:51.climb-down here, do you think, because Tory backbenchers

:43:52. > :43:53.are already threatening It is what it says on the tin -

:43:54. > :43:59.it's a consultation. I think the thing to recognise is,

:44:00. > :44:02.school funding is at It's at a record level in absolute

:44:03. > :44:08.terms and in pounds per pupil. What we have tried to do with this

:44:09. > :44:11.funding formula is try to equalise Because there has been this historic

:44:12. > :44:19.unfairness in rural areas. That has been perpetuated

:44:20. > :44:21.year on year. Just to give some figures -

:44:22. > :44:24.we didn't in the piece. Places in London, you are talking

:44:25. > :44:27.?7000 or ?8,000 per pupil. In Plymouth and parts

:44:28. > :44:29.of Cornwall it's ?4000, And it's been like that

:44:30. > :44:32.for many, many years, under Labour governments,

:44:33. > :44:35.under Conservative governments. This is the first government

:44:36. > :44:39.that's changing it. That's what the consultation

:44:40. > :44:42.is about, it's about trying to get fairer, more equal payments

:44:43. > :44:45.per pupil, so that rural schools and schools in places like Cornwall

:44:46. > :44:48.start to get the same amount I have some concerns

:44:49. > :44:57.with the formula in that I think it doesn't do enough to recognise some

:44:58. > :44:59.of the deprivation we have in Cornwall, low income deprivation

:45:00. > :45:02.rather than some of the other types We mentioned there that Labour

:45:03. > :45:11.didn't bring it in when actually the money had been there had

:45:12. > :45:13.Tony Blair decided The money overall went

:45:14. > :45:17.to all the schools. The investment into schools

:45:18. > :45:23.in the Labour years was massive. It was easier to sort it out

:45:24. > :45:26.when there was more money, though. It might have been the time,

:45:27. > :45:29.but also we actually When Labour came into office,

:45:30. > :45:34.the toilets were outside. Labour didn't want to help rural

:45:35. > :45:41.areas, they wanted to leave They put the money into their pet

:45:42. > :45:45.projects, into the grammar schools and the free schools,

:45:46. > :45:47.and actually it's all schools The right time, as you say,

:45:48. > :45:52.to have done this, was when funding was going up, when there was a lot

:45:53. > :45:55.of money around. The time to do it is

:45:56. > :45:58.when you promise to do it. Whenever you do a review of any

:45:59. > :46:05.formula, and this is perhaps the reason some have doubts,

:46:06. > :46:07.is that there will be And there will be a lot of schools

:46:08. > :46:12.in Cornwall that are better off. I have schools in my

:46:13. > :46:14.constituency that do better. But there also some

:46:15. > :46:16.that are worse off. That's why I said we need

:46:17. > :46:18.to look again at some Is it one of those things

:46:19. > :46:23.that's impossible, George? For example, David Laws,

:46:24. > :46:25.the former Lib Dem Schools Minister, said that actually this is the kind

:46:26. > :46:28.of thing where there are no friends for the government

:46:29. > :46:31.because you will take money from some schools, and the others

:46:32. > :46:34.are not going to get quite enough Do you think it's an impossible

:46:35. > :46:39.position unless you pump in more Nothing is impossible,

:46:40. > :46:44.but is it politically difficult? But this is a government

:46:45. > :46:48.that is willing to do difficult That's why we are doing

:46:49. > :46:52.this consultation now even though money is tight,

:46:53. > :46:54.even though it's not an easy time to do it,

:46:55. > :46:56.it's the right thing to do, and that's why we

:46:57. > :46:59.are trying to do it. And the previous Chancellor has been

:47:00. > :47:01.wryly amused because he recognised it wasn't something that

:47:02. > :47:03.you want to do. The previous Chancellor was the one

:47:04. > :47:06.who committed to having this review. Because in the next fortnight,

:47:07. > :47:10.Theresa May will begin a formal Then she has to deliver on the many

:47:11. > :47:15.promises made to Brexit supporters, ranging from action on immigration

:47:16. > :47:18.to cuts in red tape and a better It could be a tall order

:47:19. > :47:25.as Tamsin Melville reports. BOB GELDOF: You are no

:47:26. > :47:28.fishermen's friend! Nigel, go back down the river,

:47:29. > :47:30.because you are up Few aspects of our EU membership

:47:31. > :47:36.have generated as much passion and controversy

:47:37. > :47:39.as the Common Fisheries Policy. It's all right for

:47:40. > :47:42.millionaires, mate! During the referendum debate

:47:43. > :47:44.the industry was divided. But in the event, fishing regions

:47:45. > :47:47.around the UK like Cornwall In the months since,

:47:48. > :47:51.warnings the industry, which produces 0.5% of the UK's GDP,

:47:52. > :47:54.might be marginalised George Eustice and other ministers

:47:55. > :48:00.made a big play of fishing I think they actually owe

:48:01. > :48:09.the fishing industry something. And a question mark over how

:48:10. > :48:11.deliverable the wish list is of better access to fishing

:48:12. > :48:13.grounds, markets and quotas in a post-Brexit Britain is leading

:48:14. > :48:18.to a strong warning. There will inevitably,

:48:19. > :48:21.and probably necessarily, be a negotiated agreement outside

:48:22. > :48:24.of the 12 mile limit, But we do not expect there to be

:48:25. > :48:30.the same degree of negotiation That's for the UK fishermen

:48:31. > :48:37.and the UK inshore fleet, it should be managed for the benefit

:48:38. > :48:39.of those guys. And anything less than complete

:48:40. > :48:43.exclusivity will be seen as a betrayal, which isn't too

:48:44. > :48:45.strong a word. Making sure that fishermen do get

:48:46. > :48:49.a good deal is also key for this prominent businesswoman Brexiteer,

:48:50. > :48:54.who back in June was celebrating. With two years of negotiations

:48:55. > :49:02.about to get under way, still a lot of optimism about less

:49:03. > :49:05.red tape for business I don't suppose we will get

:49:06. > :49:12.everything, but I'm willing to take a gamble on the fact is that

:49:13. > :49:17.if we take back control here, we can make decisions here,

:49:18. > :49:20.but local funding is held here and we get the funding

:49:21. > :49:22.in the right places But a message to the government

:49:23. > :49:28.to sort out the sticking Because they are making it

:49:29. > :49:32.about immigration and I don't think anybody in Cornwall voted for Brexit

:49:33. > :49:36.over immigration It's more about taking control,

:49:37. > :49:44.taking back control. The constituency of St Austell

:49:45. > :49:47.and Newquay had the highest proportion of people voting

:49:48. > :49:50.for Brexit in Cornwall, with more than six out

:49:51. > :49:53.of ten plumping for leave. Let's find out what people

:49:54. > :49:56.here in St Austell are thinking No.

:49:57. > :50:01.No. The sooner they do it, the better.

:50:02. > :50:03.We're pleased, yeah. We need to shut our

:50:04. > :50:05.borders off as well. It's true, though.

:50:06. > :50:09.Yeah. Immigrant-gration,

:50:10. > :50:11.that is a problem. The hospitals is on its knees

:50:12. > :50:14.because of it all, So do you think the UK Government

:50:15. > :50:21.is going to get what you wanted? Otherwise there'll be hell

:50:22. > :50:25.out, wouldn't there? You know, all these people

:50:26. > :50:28.coming into the country and our National Health as it is,

:50:29. > :50:32.maybe if that stops... I'm not on about the people

:50:33. > :50:35.that are here to leave and go, but the people

:50:36. > :50:39.who are actually coming in. But there was that pledge,

:50:40. > :50:41.wasn't there, on the buses Do you think that was right,

:50:42. > :50:47.is that going to happen? A few doubts, but it

:50:48. > :50:56.seems hopes remains high It's over now to the

:50:57. > :51:00.government to deliver. A lot was made in the campaign

:51:01. > :51:09.before the referendum on the fishing industry and how we can claim

:51:10. > :51:11.back our waters. Why haven't you done it,

:51:12. > :51:13.because you can do this before triggering Article

:51:14. > :51:15.50, can't you? There are two separate

:51:16. > :51:20.but linked issues. There's something called

:51:21. > :51:23.the 1964 London Convention, that predates our membership

:51:24. > :51:25.of the EU, and that gives certain countries access

:51:26. > :51:29.to the 6-12 miles zone. We have been very clear,

:51:30. > :51:32.I have been consistent throughout, that we are looking very closely

:51:33. > :51:35.at this issue. It is possible to revoke our

:51:36. > :51:37.membership of that convention We've not yet made the final

:51:38. > :51:46.decision, but I have been very clear that we are looking very

:51:47. > :51:48.closely at this. Because there is a strong case

:51:49. > :51:50.for it, particularly If you could exclude some

:51:51. > :51:55.of the Dutch and French vessels from our 6-12 mile zone then

:51:56. > :51:58.you would give more opportunities to some of those inshore vessels

:51:59. > :52:01.who often struggle to get We heard Paul Trebilcock there,

:52:02. > :52:05.on behalf of a lot of fishermen, saying anything less than bringing

:52:06. > :52:08.in the 12 mile exclusion zone He said that wasn't

:52:09. > :52:12.too strong a word. Look, I deal with fishermen a lot,

:52:13. > :52:15.and they often assume the worst. I have said all the same things

:52:16. > :52:22.since the decision to leave the EU I have been clear that we will

:52:23. > :52:26.still fish sustainably. I have been clear that UN law

:52:27. > :52:29.will be the new legal baseline. That's what Norway has,

:52:30. > :52:34.it's what the Faroe Islands have. But we will still have some

:52:35. > :52:37.kind of quota regime. We will still have to control

:52:38. > :52:39.fishing in some way. I was honest about that

:52:40. > :52:42.in the campaign and I've not said anything different

:52:43. > :52:44.since the campaign. Candy, you seem like

:52:45. > :52:46.you are agreeing here. Is it time to be patient now,

:52:47. > :52:49.should we not jump the gun? It would be an ironic irony,

:52:50. > :53:04.an irony, if they were actually the ones who were worst hit

:53:05. > :53:07.as a result of Brexit. If we have a really bad

:53:08. > :53:09.Brexit, then my fears But where there has to be

:53:10. > :53:13.negotiations, it's not It was a nonsense when it was said

:53:14. > :53:18.in the campaign, as now people And you detected that in the piece,

:53:19. > :53:22.people are starting to realise that actually, it's not going to be

:53:23. > :53:25.all this money to the NHS. It's not going to be all these great

:53:26. > :53:28.goodies coming down. On fisheries, I was really clear

:53:29. > :53:31.throughout that there would always still have

:53:32. > :53:34.to be international negotiation. There will be annual negotiation

:53:35. > :53:37.with the EU, with Norway, the Faroe Islands and Iceland,

:53:38. > :53:40.just as we have now. How farmers, something close

:53:41. > :53:44.to your heart, George, get workers that they need

:53:45. > :53:46.after we leave. The government says

:53:47. > :53:48.that the industry will recruit more unemployed British people rather

:53:49. > :53:51.than relying on so many I think it must be part

:53:52. > :53:58.of our long-term solution that the sector becomes less reliant

:53:59. > :54:01.on migrant labour and And the government reforms

:54:02. > :54:06.to the benefit system, for example, is aimed at encouraging more people

:54:07. > :54:09.back into the workforce. These are jobs that traditionally

:54:10. > :54:12.people in the UK have done, and there are opportunities,

:54:13. > :54:15.I think, for British people in many cases,

:54:16. > :54:19.to take some of these jobs. Changes to the benefit system

:54:20. > :54:21.are part of that picture of incentivising people

:54:22. > :54:26.to enter the workforce. You were sitting next

:54:27. > :54:29.to the Immigration Minister there, I also gave evidence

:54:30. > :54:33.to that committee. It all sounds fair

:54:34. > :54:37.enough, doesn't it? If there are jobs, and local people

:54:38. > :54:40.can do them, why would you bring in European workers,

:54:41. > :54:42.and why wouldn't you give those people those jobs

:54:43. > :54:44.and take them off benefits? Because the businesses are saying

:54:45. > :54:47.that the right people are not necessarily those who are unemployed

:54:48. > :54:50.who we need to get into the jobs. And are we going to be saying

:54:51. > :54:53.to 65-year-old women who are not retiring until they are 67,

:54:54. > :54:56.that they have to go out and pick Have you seen the modern

:54:57. > :55:03.slavery law, George? We need workers to help us

:55:04. > :55:09.manage our health service, everywhere you look,

:55:10. > :55:13.and particularly in agriculture. Stopping you there, what do you mean

:55:14. > :55:18.about modern slavery? I do believe that if you say

:55:19. > :55:22.to people, you can eat, you can have a house,

:55:23. > :55:26.a home, a roof over your head, but you've got to work absolutely

:55:27. > :55:29.in this field picking cauliflowers, then I think that's not

:55:30. > :55:33.a particularly the way this I don't quite understand this

:55:34. > :55:40.argument that it's not modern slavery to have migrant labour doing

:55:41. > :55:43.roles that you don't think people And if you listen to

:55:44. > :55:49.the whole evidence session - it was a very long session,

:55:50. > :55:52.three hours - there were two things One is, there will still be

:55:53. > :55:56.a need for migrant labour. The important thing is,

:55:57. > :55:58.having controlled migration doesn't mean pulling up the drawbridge

:55:59. > :56:00.and stopping all migration. It simply means exactly what it

:56:01. > :56:03.says, that you can control it. And we will have the ability to have

:56:04. > :56:06.short-term work permits to allow some people to come

:56:07. > :56:08.here to do seasonal work. We are looking at the detail

:56:09. > :56:12.of exactly what we would put Will it mean that, as was put

:56:13. > :56:17.in the papers, I know one piece where it said you end up having

:56:18. > :56:19.immigration workers to do the picking, but maybe not

:56:20. > :56:22.the doctors, if you are limiting it You could, or indeed,

:56:23. > :56:25.in the case of agriculture, and this is the context

:56:26. > :56:28.about getting more local people into agriculture,

:56:29. > :56:30.there are roles, full-time roles, tractor driver rolls,

:56:31. > :56:31.irrigation managers, agronomists. Other full-time farming roles

:56:32. > :56:34.where actually the more progressive people in the farming industry do

:56:35. > :56:37.tell me they could probably do better to get local people

:56:38. > :56:39.from local schools taking Surely if those people

:56:40. > :56:53.were available, they would be doing it now for those jobs you are saying

:56:54. > :56:56.are slightly more skilled? No, what I think actually a lot

:56:57. > :57:00.of them will admit is that it has been too easy just to rely

:57:01. > :57:03.on migrant labour and have The farmers, it's been

:57:04. > :57:10.too easy for farmers? Yes, and actually this is where,

:57:11. > :57:13.there is a very interesting discussion to be had

:57:14. > :57:15.about whether we have, yes, some permits in a controlled way

:57:16. > :57:18.for seasonal labour where we can't But I think the quid pro quo

:57:19. > :57:22.for that should be farm businesses trying a bit harder to get girls

:57:23. > :57:24.and boys from local schools, when they leave at 16,

:57:25. > :57:26.entering as apprentices. Candy makes the point that it's

:57:27. > :57:29.a young person's job, You couldn't be expected to have

:57:30. > :57:33.arthritis or some kind of issue, the elderly, and doing that

:57:34. > :57:35.sort of job. And also do farmers

:57:36. > :57:37.necessarily want certain types It tends to be, although there

:57:38. > :57:42.are older people who are actually very fit and a lot of them

:57:43. > :57:45.want to go and pick fruit. Often people who have retired

:57:46. > :57:56.want to supplement their pension with a bit of extra income,

:57:57. > :57:59.they do actually enjoy There are examples

:58:00. > :58:08.of this at all farms. Candy, can Labour now

:58:09. > :58:10.do anything to change the course of Brexit,

:58:11. > :58:12.do you think? For those who are the 48ers,

:58:13. > :58:17.of which I was one, strongly in favour of Remain,

:58:18. > :58:21.I hope that this hard Brexit which is a road

:58:22. > :58:23.we seem to be following.... Your party is allowing Article 50

:58:24. > :58:27.to be triggered, isn't it? It's probably above my pay grade,

:58:28. > :58:33.but I would say this, that I strongly hope that we don't

:58:34. > :58:36.put up the barriers, that we are an open country,

:58:37. > :58:39.that we don't end up Any opposition, it's tough

:58:40. > :58:50.being in opposition. It's a lot easier to be

:58:51. > :58:53.in opposition than to I would like to see us really

:58:54. > :58:58.holding this government to account and make sure that we have a Brexit

:58:59. > :59:01.that doesn't leave this It's time for our regular round-up

:59:02. > :59:10.of the political week in 60 seconds. Devon and Cornwall police are one

:59:11. > :59:14.of 12 forces to send files to the Crown Prosecution Service

:59:15. > :59:18.as part of enquiries into the Conservatives'

:59:19. > :59:21.general election expenses. As well as the enquiry

:59:22. > :59:25.into local spending, the Tories have been fined a record

:59:26. > :59:28.?70,000 for failing to report Businesses have voiced concern

:59:29. > :59:38.at a big fall in the number of European Union students wanting

:59:39. > :59:40.to study in the south-west. The number applying

:59:41. > :59:42.to the University of Exeter has The UK must be seen to be

:59:43. > :59:49.open to people from all Campaigners welcomed a military

:59:50. > :59:53.Appeal Court ruling that a Royal Marine Alexander Blackman

:59:54. > :59:55.didn't murder a wounded Taliban fighter, but was guilty

:59:56. > :59:59.of the lesser charge of manslaughter on the grounds of

:00:00. > :00:05.diminished responsibility. And there were more protests over

:00:06. > :00:07.the temporary closure of beds at Holsworthy hospital,

:00:08. > :00:10.and fears that the loss of beds It's such an important thing,

:00:11. > :00:22.a centre of the community, really. STUDIO: Right, let's look then

:00:23. > :00:24.at election spending. Is it possible, George,

:00:25. > :00:28.that at the end of this process and investigation,

:00:29. > :00:30.we might have to see some I don't think that's

:00:31. > :00:35.likely, and I don't think What's happened here,

:00:36. > :00:41.is there is an investigation They are looking at all of the seats

:00:42. > :00:45.where volunteers went It shouldn't have happened,

:00:46. > :00:51.though, should it? The Labour Party at the last

:00:52. > :00:57.election bussed in activists from Plymouth for some

:00:58. > :00:59.of their campaign days. You don't force people to declare

:01:00. > :01:04.the petrol if they drive from one But we were not hauled

:01:05. > :01:09.into the High Court having to produce our receipts

:01:10. > :01:11.and our expenditure. The Conservative Party have

:01:12. > :01:13.left your MPs out to dry. I think the way they are behaving

:01:14. > :01:16.and the way they have The truth here is that this

:01:17. > :01:24.was a national expense. The party said they were going

:01:25. > :01:29.to declare it nationally, so they told all those MPs not

:01:30. > :01:33.to declare it locally. So local MPs, it's do with the way

:01:34. > :01:37.it was organised nationally. It's a national expense, and that's

:01:38. > :01:40.the way it has been accepted. It was a national expense

:01:41. > :01:42.and declared nationally, It's coming up to the end

:01:43. > :01:49.of our programme, Sunday Politics Thanks to both of my

:01:50. > :01:51.guests, Candy and George. you both. Say goodbye. Goodbye. Back

:01:52. > :02:00.to you. So, can George Osborne stay

:02:01. > :02:03.on as a member of Parliament Will Conservative backbenchers force

:02:04. > :02:07.a Government re-think And is Theresa May about to cap gas

:02:08. > :02:21.and electricity prices? Whose idea was that first of all?

:02:22. > :02:26.They are all questions for the Week Ahead to.

:02:27. > :02:31.Let's start with the story that is too much fun to miss, on Friday it

:02:32. > :02:35.was announced the former Chancellor would be the new editor of London's

:02:36. > :02:42.Evening Standard newspaper, a position he will take up in mid-May

:02:43. > :02:46.on a salary of ?200,000 for four days a week.

:02:47. > :02:50.But Mr Osborne has said he will not be stepping down as MP

:02:51. > :02:52.for Tatton in Cheshire, a job he's held since 2001,

:02:53. > :02:55.Alongside these duties, he's also chairman of

:02:56. > :03:01.While being committed to one day a week at Black Rock,

:03:02. > :03:04.an American asset management firm - a part-time role that earns him

:03:05. > :03:09.Then he's polishing his academic credentials, as a fellow

:03:10. > :03:11.at the McCain Institute, an American thinktank,

:03:12. > :03:19.And finally as a member of the Washington Speaker's Bureau,

:03:20. > :03:25.he also earns his keep as an after-dinner speaker, banking

:03:26. > :03:30.around ?750,000 since last summer.

:03:31. > :03:39.So there you go. Nice little earners if you can get them. The problem,

:03:40. > :03:43.though, is he has put second jobs on the agenda and lots of his fellow

:03:44. > :03:48.MPs are not happy because they have got second jobs but not making that

:03:49. > :03:52.kind of money. No, and a lot of MPs on both sides actually are unhappy

:03:53. > :03:57.about it exactly for those reasons. I find it a very interesting

:03:58. > :04:01.appointment. We have got these people on the centre and centre

:04:02. > :04:05.right of politics who have been used to power since 1997, they have been

:04:06. > :04:10.on the airwaves today, Tony Blair, Nick Clegg, George Osborne, and they

:04:11. > :04:15.are all seeking other platforms now because power has moved elsewhere.

:04:16. > :04:18.So Tony Blair is setting up this new foundation, Nick Clegg refused to

:04:19. > :04:25.condemn George Osborne, Tony Blair praised the appointment. They are

:04:26. > :04:28.all searching for new platforms. They might have overestimated the

:04:29. > :04:34.degree to which this will be a huge influential platform. The standard

:04:35. > :04:39.was very pro-Tory at the 2015 election but London voted Labour, it

:04:40. > :04:42.was pro-Zac Goldsmith but they elected Sadiq Khan. It might be

:04:43. > :04:48.overestimating the degree to which this is a hugely influential paper.

:04:49. > :04:53.But I can see why it attracts him as a platform when all these platforms

:04:54. > :04:59.have disappeared, eg power and government. All of these people who

:05:00. > :05:03.used to be in power are quietly getting together again, Mr Blair on

:05:04. > :05:06.television this morning, George Osborne not only filling his bank

:05:07. > :05:11.account but now in charge of London's most important newspaper,

:05:12. > :05:17.Nick Clegg out today not saying Brexit was a done deal, waiting to

:05:18. > :05:21.see what happens, even John Major was wheeled out again today in the

:05:22. > :05:25.Mail on Sunday. They are all playing for position. I half expect David

:05:26. > :05:32.Cameron to turn up as features editor on The Evening Standard.

:05:33. > :05:37.Brexit and breakfast! With Mr Clegg, did he not? I do not think this is

:05:38. > :05:40.sustainable for George Osborne, I worked at The Evening Standard and I

:05:41. > :05:44.was there for three years, I know what the hours are like for a humble

:05:45. > :05:48.journalist, never mind the editor. If he thinks he can get at 4am

:05:49. > :05:52.everyday to be in the offices at 5am to oversee the splash, manage

:05:53. > :05:57.everything in the way and edited should he is in cloud cuckoo land.

:05:58. > :06:01.What this says to people is there is a kind of feel of soft corruption

:06:02. > :06:05.about public life here, where you see what you can get away with. He

:06:06. > :06:08.thinks he can brazen this out and maybe he can but what kind of

:06:09. > :06:14.message does that send to people about how seriously people take the

:06:15. > :06:19.role of being an MP? He must have known. He applied for the job. The

:06:20. > :06:24.Russian owner didn't approach him, he approached Lebedev, the

:06:25. > :06:27.proprietor, for it. He must have calculated there would be some

:06:28. > :06:32.kickback. I wonder if he realised there would be quite the kickback

:06:33. > :06:36.there has been. I think that's probably right. This hasn't finished

:06:37. > :06:41.yet, by the way, this will go on and on. How on earth does George Osborne

:06:42. > :06:45.cover the budget in the autumn? Big budget, lots of physical changes and

:06:46. > :06:50.tax rises to deal with the messages out of this week. You can see

:06:51. > :06:57.already, Theresa May budget crashes. It could be worse. She's useless!

:06:58. > :07:02.Or, worse than that, me, brilliant budget, terrible newspaper, I've

:07:03. > :07:06.never buying it again. He has hoisted his own petard. He has not

:07:07. > :07:12.bought it properly through. It's a something interesting about his own

:07:13. > :07:16.future calculations, if he wants to stay on as an MP in 2020 and be

:07:17. > :07:20.Prime Minister as he has or was wanted to be he has got to find a

:07:21. > :07:23.new seat. How do you go into an association and say I should be an

:07:24. > :07:28.MP, I can do it for at least four hours Purdy after editing The

:07:29. > :07:35.Evening Standard, making a big speech and telling Black Rock how to

:07:36. > :07:39.make a big profit. The feature pages have to be approved for the next day

:07:40. > :07:43.and feature pages are aware the editor gets to make their mark. The

:07:44. > :07:48.news is the news. The feature is what concerns you, what he is in

:07:49. > :07:54.your bonnet. That defines the newspaper, doesn't it? It is not

:07:55. > :08:00.over yet. Too much 101 on newspapers. And Haatheq at.

:08:01. > :08:07.School funding, the consultation period ends, it has been a tricky

:08:08. > :08:13.one for the government, some areas losing. I guess we are seeing this

:08:14. > :08:18.through the prism of the National Insurance contributions now, it is a

:08:19. > :08:23.small majority, if Tory MPs are unhappy she may not get her way.

:08:24. > :08:27.Talking to backbench MPs who are unhappy the feeling is it is not

:08:28. > :08:33.going to go ahead in the proposed form that the consultation has been

:08:34. > :08:37.on. No 10 will definitely have to move on this. It is unclear whether

:08:38. > :08:40.they will scrap it completely, or will they bring in something

:08:41. > :08:46.possibly like a base level, floor level pupil funding below which you

:08:47. > :08:50.can't go? You would then still need to find some extra money. So there

:08:51. > :08:54.are no easy solutions on this but what is clear it is not going to go

:08:55. > :08:57.ahead in its current form. Parents have been getting letters across the

:08:58. > :09:02.country in England about what this will mean for teachers and so on in

:09:03. > :09:07.certain schools. It's not just a matter of the education Department,

:09:08. > :09:12.the schools, or the teachers and Tory backbenchers. Parents are being

:09:13. > :09:15.mobilised on this. The point of the new funding formula is to allocate

:09:16. > :09:19.more money to the more disadvantaged. That means schools in

:09:20. > :09:23.the more prosperous suburbs are going to lose money. Budget cuts on

:09:24. > :09:27.schools which are already struggling. It comes down again to

:09:28. > :09:32.be huge problem, the ever smaller fiscal pool, ever greater demands,

:09:33. > :09:36.NHS, social care, education as well, adding to Theresa May and Phillip

:09:37. > :09:41.Hammond's enormous problems. Here is an interesting issue, Steve. There

:09:42. > :09:46.was a labour Leader of the Opposition that once suggested

:09:47. > :09:50.perhaps given these huge energy companies which seemed to be good at

:09:51. > :09:53.passing on energy rises but not so good at cutting energy prices when

:09:54. > :09:58.it falls, that perhaps we should put a cap on them until at least we

:09:59. > :10:03.study how the market goes. This was obviously ludicrous Marxism and

:10:04. > :10:08.quite rightly knocked down by the Conservatives, except that Mrs May

:10:09. > :10:12.is now talking about putting a cap on energy prices. Yes, I think if it

:10:13. > :10:16.wasn't for Brexit we would focus much more on Theresa May's Ed

:10:17. > :10:21.Miliband streak. Whether this translates into policies, let us

:10:22. > :10:25.see. That bit we don't know. That bit we don't know but in terms of

:10:26. > :10:28.argument her speech to the Conservative conference on Friday

:10:29. > :10:34.was about the third or fourth time where she said as part of the

:10:35. > :10:37.speech, let's focus on the good that government can do, including in

:10:38. > :10:42.intervening in markets, exactly in the way that he used to argue. As

:10:43. > :10:46.you say, we await the policy consequences of that. She seems more

:10:47. > :10:51.cautious in terms of policy in fermentation. But in terms of the

:10:52. > :10:54.industrial strategy, in terms of implying intervention in certain

:10:55. > :10:58.markets, there is a kind of Milibandesque streak. And there

:10:59. > :11:04.comes a time when she has to walk the walk as well as talk the talk.

:11:05. > :11:09.They talk a lot about the just about managing, just about managing face

:11:10. > :11:13.rising food bills because of the lower pound and face rising fuel

:11:14. > :11:20.bills because of the rise in oil and in other commodities. One of the two

:11:21. > :11:23.things you could do to help the just about managing is to cut their food

:11:24. > :11:26.bills and the second would be to cut their fuel bills. At some stage she

:11:27. > :11:30.has to do something for them. We don't know what is going to happen

:11:31. > :11:34.to food bills under Brexit, that could become a really serious issue.

:11:35. > :11:38.They could abolish tariffs. There has been a lot of talking the talk

:11:39. > :11:41.and big announcements put out and not following through so I agree

:11:42. > :11:55.with you on that but lots of Tory MPs will have a big problem on

:11:56. > :11:57.this and the principle of continually talking about

:11:58. > :12:00.interfering in markets, whether it's on executive pay, whether it is on

:12:01. > :12:03.energy, at a time when Britain needs to send out this message to the

:12:04. > :12:06.world in their view, in the view of Brexit supporting MPs, that we are

:12:07. > :12:08.open for business and the government is not about poking around and doing

:12:09. > :12:11.this kind of thing. Of course, you could argue there is not a problem

:12:12. > :12:13.in the market for energy, it is a malfunctioning market that doesn't

:12:14. > :12:17.operate like a free market should, so that provides even Adam Smith,

:12:18. > :12:21.the inventor of market economics would have said on that basis you

:12:22. > :12:25.should intervene. I was in Cardiff to listen to Theresa May's latest

:12:26. > :12:29.explanation for doing this. By the way, we've been waiting nine months,

:12:30. > :12:33.this was one of her big ideas. You are right, let's see a bit of the

:12:34. > :12:37.meat, please. My newspaper has been calling for some pretty hefty

:12:38. > :12:42.government action on this for quite some time. For the just about

:12:43. > :12:46.managings? Yes and specifically to sort out an energy market dominated

:12:47. > :12:50.by the big six, which is manifestly ripping people off left, right and

:12:51. > :12:54.centre. Theresa May's argument in Cardiff on Friday morning which, by

:12:55. > :12:59.the way, went down like a proverbial windbreak at the proverbial funeral

:13:00. > :13:03.because Tories... You know what I mean Andrew, the big hand coming

:13:04. > :13:06.into from the state telling businesses what to do. They went

:13:07. > :13:10.very quiet indeed. They were having saving the union and Nato but there

:13:11. > :13:15.was no clapping for that. The point being, this is what she needs to do

:13:16. > :13:20.to prove her assault, to prove those first words on the steps of Downing

:13:21. > :13:22.Street. We await to see the actions taken.

:13:23. > :13:30.On that unusual agreement we will leave it there. The Daily Politics

:13:31. > :13:33.will be back on BBC Two tomorrow at noon and everyday during the week.

:13:34. > :13:35.And I'll be here on BBC One next Sunday at 11am.

:13:36. > :14:19.Remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.

:14:20. > :14:25.I've not given myself that time to sit down

:14:26. > :14:29.Two years ago, former England captain Rio Ferdinand lost his wife