23/04/2017

:00:35. > :00:37.It's Sunday afternoon - this is the Sunday Politics.

:00:38. > :00:40.Jeremy Corbyn wants to give everyone in Britain four

:00:41. > :00:43.extra bank holidays - but is the Labour leader up

:00:44. > :00:45.to being Prime Minister if he wins the election in just

:00:46. > :00:52.Theresa May says she wants a stronger hand to deliver Brexit -

:00:53. > :00:54.how will the Conservatives go about getting the bigger

:00:55. > :01:00.I'll be asking Party Chairman, Patrick McLoughlin.

:01:01. > :01:05.And I've been in Paris where voters are going to the polls in first

:01:06. > :01:08.round of the French Presidential election - what could be the impact

:01:09. > :01:11.on the EU and Brexit of this most unpredictable of contests?

:01:12. > :01:14.In the South West, the region's army of Conservative MPs face

:01:15. > :01:17.invasion from an alliance of Lib Dems and Greens who say

:01:18. > :01:22.Will the Remain majority punish the Tories for the decision?

:01:23. > :01:24.Or feel they may not like it but the Tories

:01:25. > :01:39.And with me has always ready for the marathon task of covering a snap

:01:40. > :01:42.general election, even working on bank holidays, the best and

:01:43. > :01:43.brightest political panel in the business. David Wooding, Polly

:01:44. > :01:47.Toynbee and Toby Young. So Labour's big announcement this

:01:48. > :01:49.morning was a crowd pleaser. Four more rainy bank

:01:50. > :01:51.holidays to enjoy - one for each of the patron saints

:01:52. > :01:53.of England, Scotland, But Mr Corbyn probably won't be

:01:54. > :02:00.getting the time off work if he wins And on The Andrew Marr Show this

:02:01. > :02:04.morning he was asked what he would do as Prime Minister

:02:05. > :02:07.if the security services asked him to authorise a drone strike

:02:08. > :02:10.on the leader of Islamic State. What I'd tell them is,

:02:11. > :02:14.give me the information you've got, tell me how accurate that is,

:02:15. > :02:16.tell me what you I'm asking you about decisions you

:02:17. > :02:25.would take as Prime Minister. Can I take you back

:02:26. > :02:28.to the whole point? Is the objective

:02:29. > :02:31.to start more strikes that may kill many innocent

:02:32. > :02:34.people, as has happened? Do you think killing

:02:35. > :02:36.the leader of Isis would be I think the leader of Isis not

:02:37. > :02:45.being around would be helpful, and I'm no supporter or defender

:02:46. > :02:47.in any way of Isis. But I would also argue that

:02:48. > :02:51.the bombing campaign has killed a of whom were virtually prisoners of

:02:52. > :02:54.Isis. So you've got to think

:02:55. > :03:01.about these things. Mr Corbyn earlier. David, is his

:03:02. > :03:06.reply refreshing damaging? It is damaging. He has clearly been

:03:07. > :03:10.freaked to the fire already in the first week, there will be lots of

:03:11. > :03:13.questions on his suitability as a leader and the damage it could cause

:03:14. > :03:17.to our national security over the weeks ahead and Andrew Marr has cut

:03:18. > :03:21.straight to the chase here. The other thing, of course, is the

:03:22. > :03:24.letters of last resort, one of the first duties of a Prime Minister

:03:25. > :03:30.when he walks into No 10 is to sign these letters on his own, on or --

:03:31. > :03:33.or on her own in a room, a very lonely moment, to decide whether he

:03:34. > :03:37.should press the nuclear button and that goes in the Vanguard submarines

:03:38. > :03:41.and is opened in the event of a strike and he has dodged a question

:03:42. > :03:45.so many times. One must wonder what he would do that. He has to make

:03:46. > :03:50.these decisions as Prime Minister. On the Isis point, refreshing or

:03:51. > :03:55.damaging? It sure is his base, the people who support him, that's the

:03:56. > :03:57.sort of thing they support info and maybe his tactic is that's all he's

:03:58. > :04:01.going to get, that is what the polls seem to suggest, in which case they

:04:02. > :04:05.will be pleased, and say yes, the man is a man for these who doesn't

:04:06. > :04:11.press buttons and shoot people down. But if you want to win you have to

:04:12. > :04:15.deal with your own weaknesses and reach out to other people. I think

:04:16. > :04:21.most people would say that's not somebody who could defend the

:04:22. > :04:24.country. I wonder if he was being totally honest in saying he would

:04:25. > :04:29.consider it he would ask for more information. He has previously been

:04:30. > :04:32.on the record as being against drone strikes in principle, he's

:04:33. > :04:36.campaigned against them, he wants to abolish drones. I think Andrew Marr

:04:37. > :04:40.let him off saying it was a drone strike rather than a Navy SEAL or

:04:41. > :04:42.SAS operation and he had the fact that they could be collateral

:04:43. > :04:49.damage. We that's not his position because he condemned the

:04:50. > :04:52.assassination of Osama Bin Laden even though there was no collateral

:04:53. > :04:55.damage. David is right on the Trident point, he fetched the

:04:56. > :05:01.question. We heard Niall Griffiths on this very show saying Trident,

:05:02. > :05:04.the renewal of Trident, would be in the next Labour Party manifesto. It

:05:05. > :05:08.turns out now we don't know and when he was asked he said that remains to

:05:09. > :05:12.be seen, his re-opened a can of worms. What he has said about

:05:13. > :05:16.Trident which was extraordinary was, we will rebuild the submarines but

:05:17. > :05:20.not have any nukes on them which is expensive and useless. And of course

:05:21. > :05:23.the Labour Party were forced soon after that interview to put out a

:05:24. > :05:29.statement saying it is Labour Party policy to renew Trident. So where

:05:30. > :05:33.are we? Do we know what the party's policy is? It is to renew Trident

:05:34. > :05:39.but he has started this review which involves looking at it all again. We

:05:40. > :05:43.know he is a unilateralist to start with but whether he can force this

:05:44. > :05:48.through is dubious. Does it matter, though, if the party policy is in

:05:49. > :05:52.favour of Trident, if the leader is not? The potential Prime Minister is

:05:53. > :05:55.not? They split three ways when they went to vote on it in the Commons.

:05:56. > :05:59.The party agreed they were pro-Trident and when it came to the

:06:00. > :06:04.vote they split three ways. I think it's difficult for them, it's always

:06:05. > :06:08.been a really difficult issue for Labour. The question is whether you

:06:09. > :06:12.want to seal off your negatives, whether you really want to try and

:06:13. > :06:15.reach out to people. There are an awful lot of people who will like

:06:16. > :06:20.what he said, there are an awful lot of people that think we have been

:06:21. > :06:23.involved in terrible wars, we have wasted a lot of money and blood and

:06:24. > :06:28.let's just get back from the whole thing, let's retreat from the world

:06:29. > :06:31.and not try punching above our weight. There is something to be

:06:32. > :06:36.said for that and it is a reasonable argument. He's been true to himself

:06:37. > :06:40.on this. I think he is and Polly is right, lots of people will agree

:06:41. > :06:44.with him, not enough to win a general election, the latest ComRes

:06:45. > :06:47.poll shows Tories on 50% and Labour on 25 and as my colleague James

:06:48. > :06:51.Forsyth in the Spectator said if this was a boxing match it would

:06:52. > :06:52.have been stopped by now by the revelry. We are not stopping, we are

:06:53. > :06:53.going on. So the political parties have had

:06:54. > :06:56.to move into election mode Stand by for battle buses,

:06:57. > :07:00.mail shots and your social media timeline being bombarded

:07:01. > :07:01.by political propoganda. But none of this comes cheap -

:07:02. > :07:06.Adam's been doing his sums. Democracy is priceless but those

:07:07. > :07:12.planes, trains and automobiles used in the last election cost money

:07:13. > :07:14.and we know exactly how much, thanks to the Electoral

:07:15. > :07:20.Commission database. The Conservatives flew David Cameron

:07:21. > :07:24.to every part of the UK in one day on a private plane costing ?29,000,

:07:25. > :07:30.in-flight meals extra. They shelled out ?1.2 million

:07:31. > :07:35.for adverts on Facebook. The most expensive item was their

:07:36. > :07:40.election guru Lynton Crosby. They bought ?2.4 million worth

:07:41. > :07:43.of advice and research from his firm Labour's biggest expenditure

:07:44. > :07:49.was on good old-fashioned leaflets, costing ?7.4 million

:07:50. > :07:52.to print and deliver. Hope they didn't go straight

:07:53. > :07:57.into the recycling. Cheap for all the

:07:58. > :08:06.enjoyment it gave us. To turn a normal minibus

:08:07. > :08:08.into Harriet Harman's pink bus Nick Clegg toured the country doing

:08:09. > :08:15.all manner of stunts transported although the party got a grand's

:08:16. > :08:28.discount when it broke down. Ukip's then leader Nigel Farage

:08:29. > :08:30.was accompanied by bodyguards Nicola Sturgeon's chopper

:08:31. > :08:39.cost the SNP ?35,450. Plaid Cymru spent just over

:08:40. > :08:42.?1,000 on media training And the Greens spent ?6,912

:08:43. > :08:56.promoting their tweets. It adds up to a grand total

:08:57. > :09:00.for all the parties of ?37,560,039. Jabbing at my calculator that works

:09:01. > :09:07.out at less than ?1 per voter. Adam Fleming there -

:09:08. > :09:12.and joining me now is the man responsible for the Conservative

:09:13. > :09:16.election campaigns - for the locals next month

:09:17. > :09:24.and the general election in June - Welcome to the programme. The Crown

:09:25. > :09:27.Prosecution Service is reviewing evidence from 14 police forces that

:09:28. > :09:32.your party breached election spending rules on multiple occasions

:09:33. > :09:38.in the last election. What are you going to do differently this time?

:09:39. > :09:44.Well, the battle buses are part of the National campaign spend. You saw

:09:45. > :09:47.them just on the shot that you did, all three parties had those battle

:09:48. > :09:50.buses so that's why we believe they were part of the national spend and

:09:51. > :09:54.it was declared that way. At least 30 people in your party, MPs and

:09:55. > :09:58.agents, being investigated because they may not have been right to

:09:59. > :10:01.include it in the national spend. Are you saying you are going to do

:10:02. > :10:09.nothing differently this time? You asked me about last time and the way

:10:10. > :10:12.the position is... Was. I asked you about this time. We will take a

:10:13. > :10:19.careful count and make sure that everything that we do is within the

:10:20. > :10:22.law. But as I say, the last election, all three parties had

:10:23. > :10:27.battle buses. It is your party that above all has been investigated by

:10:28. > :10:33.14 police forces. You must surely be taking stock of that and working out

:10:34. > :10:36.how to do some things differently. You are being investigated because

:10:37. > :10:41.you put stuff on the National Ledger which should have been on the local

:10:42. > :10:44.constituency ledger. Are you looking at that again? All of the parties

:10:45. > :10:48.had battle buses and they all put them on their national spend. I

:10:49. > :10:53.don't think any of the parties put them on the local spend. The other

:10:54. > :10:56.battle buses were not full of their party activists. Your party stuffed

:10:57. > :11:02.these battle buses with activists and took them to constituencies.

:11:03. > :11:06.That's the difference. And I ask again, what is different this time?

:11:07. > :11:10.Are you going to run the risk of being investigated yet again? We

:11:11. > :11:15.believe that we fully compliant with the electoral law as it was. What

:11:16. > :11:19.will happen if one of these, or two or three or four or five of these 30

:11:20. > :11:26.people, Tory MPs, or agents running campaigns are charged during the

:11:27. > :11:29.campaign? As I say I believe we properly declared our election

:11:30. > :11:32.expenses. What happens if they are charged? You asking me a

:11:33. > :11:36.hypothetical question, the importance of this election is about

:11:37. > :11:40.who is in Downing Street in seven weeks' time. Let me clarify this,

:11:41. > :11:44.you maintain that in 2015 you did nothing wrong with how you allocated

:11:45. > :11:47.the cost and the activities of the battle buses and you would do

:11:48. > :11:52.exactly the same this time round? What we did at the last election we

:11:53. > :11:57.believe fully complied with the law. So the battle buses this time,

:11:58. > :12:00.stocked full of activists, will still be charged to the national

:12:01. > :12:08.campaign even when they go to local constituencies? Will they? We will

:12:09. > :12:13.be looking at the way we do it, there is new guidance from the

:12:14. > :12:17.Electoral Commission out and we will look at that guidance. It is not the

:12:18. > :12:21.guidance, it is the lawful stop the Electoral Commission said that, if

:12:22. > :12:24.you look at the report they did on us, they said there was one area

:12:25. > :12:28.where we had over claimed, over declared, and another area we had

:12:29. > :12:31.and declared. We haven't worked out what to do

:12:32. > :12:35.yet, have you? We will get on with the campaign and

:12:36. > :12:37.start the campaign and I'm looking forward to the campaign.

:12:38. > :12:40.I'm trying to work out of the campaign is going to be legal or not

:12:41. > :12:44.because last time it seems it could have been illegal.

:12:45. > :12:46.I am sure the campaign will be legal.

:12:47. > :12:51.You started the campaign warning about the prospect of, the coalition

:12:52. > :12:59.of chaos. Mr Corbyn has ruled out a post-election coalition with the SNP

:13:00. > :13:01.and so have the Lib Dems so who is going to be in this coalition?

:13:02. > :13:03.Vince Cable said he was looking towards a possible coalition trying

:13:04. > :13:06.to stop a Conservative government. Is not the leader of the Lib Dems.

:13:07. > :13:13.He's an important voice in the Lib Dems. Who will be in it? Let's see

:13:14. > :13:16.because of the Conservative Party is not re-elected with a strong

:13:17. > :13:19.majority, what will happen? There will be a coalition stopping us

:13:20. > :13:23.doing the things we need to do. Who will be in it? It will be a

:13:24. > :13:27.coalition of the Labour Party, the SNP and the Liberal party. They have

:13:28. > :13:31.ruled it out. I think they would not rule it out if that was the

:13:32. > :13:35.situation. Like Theresa May not ruling out an election and then

:13:36. > :13:38.changing her mind? The things the Prime Minister said were very clear,

:13:39. > :13:42.once she had served Article 50 there was an opportunity, as we know

:13:43. > :13:46.today, there is going to be the start of a new government formed in

:13:47. > :13:50.France and in September we have the German elections. So it was quite

:13:51. > :13:56.right that we didn't get ourselves boxed into a timetable. That is why

:13:57. > :13:59.the Prime Minister took the view that they should be a general

:14:00. > :14:03.election to give her full strength of an electoral mandate when it

:14:04. > :14:10.comes to those negotiations. What about Mr Corbyn's plan for four new

:14:11. > :14:13.bank holidays, good idea? I'm not... If we get Corbyn in No 10 Downing St

:14:14. > :14:18.we will have a permanent bank holiday of the United Kingdom. We

:14:19. > :14:24.will have fewer bank holidays of most other major nations, most about

:14:25. > :14:28.major wealthy nations. What about at least one more? Well, look, he's

:14:29. > :14:33.talked about four bank holidays. Today would be a bank holiday and

:14:34. > :14:37.next Monday would be a bank holiday and the other week was a bank

:14:38. > :14:41.holiday too. I don't think it's very well thought out. It sounded more to

:14:42. > :14:45.me something like you get in school mock elections rather than proper

:14:46. > :14:48.elections. Your party is the self-styled party of the workers and

:14:49. > :14:52.you have no plans to give the workers even one extra bank holiday?

:14:53. > :14:57.What we want to do is ensure Britain is a strong economy and building on

:14:58. > :15:01.the jobs that we have created since 2010. We were told that by reducing

:15:02. > :15:06.public expenditure unemployment in this country would go up,

:15:07. > :15:10.unemployment has gone down and the number of jobs have gone up

:15:11. > :15:14.substantially. But no more bank holidays? Well, we will make our

:15:15. > :15:18.manifesto in due course but I don't think four bank holidays held in

:15:19. > :15:24.April, March and November are very attractive to people. When Ed

:15:25. > :15:33.Miliband as leader of the Labour Party suggested the government

:15:34. > :15:36.should control energy prices by capping them, the Conservatives

:15:37. > :15:40.described that as almost Communist and central planning. Do still take

:15:41. > :15:45.that view? You'll see what we have to say on energy prices. I didn't

:15:46. > :15:49.you about that, I asked you if you take the view... The Prime Minister

:15:50. > :15:52.made a speech at the Conservative Spring conference in which she

:15:53. > :15:55.outlined her dissatisfaction about people who are kept locked on a

:15:56. > :15:57.standard tariff and those are the issues we will address in the next

:15:58. > :16:03.few weeks when the manifesto was published.

:16:04. > :16:09.Would that be an act of communism? You will need to see what we say

:16:10. > :16:15.when we set out the policies. It could be. You could put a Communist

:16:16. > :16:20.act into your manifesto? I don't think you'll find a Communist

:16:21. > :16:23.manifesto in a Conservative manifesto which will be launched...

:16:24. > :16:28.You are planning to control prices? We will address what we think is

:16:29. > :16:32.unfairness in the energy market. Mr Jeremy Corbyn was reluctant this

:16:33. > :16:38.morning to sanction a drone strike. You heard us talking about it

:16:39. > :16:41.earlier against the leader of Islamic State if our intelligence

:16:42. > :16:46.services identified him. What would it achieve? When the Prime Minister

:16:47. > :16:51.gets certain advice in the national interests, she has to act been that.

:16:52. > :16:54.We've seen with Theresa May in her time as Home Secretary and Prime

:16:55. > :16:58.Minister, she's not afraid to take those very difficult decisions. What

:16:59. > :17:02.we say this morning from Jeremy Corbyn was a his tans, a reluctance.

:17:03. > :17:09.I don't think that serves the country well. What would it achieve

:17:10. > :17:13.if we take out the head of Islamic State he's replaced by somebody

:17:14. > :17:19.else. It brings their organisation into difficulties. It undermines

:17:20. > :17:23.their organisation. It shows we'll take every measure to undo an

:17:24. > :17:26.organisation which has organised terrorism in different parts of

:17:27. > :17:29.Europe, the UK. I think it is absolutely right the Prime Minister

:17:30. > :17:34.is prepared to take those kind of measures. Jeremy Corbyn said he

:17:35. > :17:39.wasn't prepared to take that. Because he wasn't sure what it would

:17:40. > :17:44.achieve. The Obama administration launched hundreds of drone strikes

:17:45. > :17:50.in various war zones and we in the west are still under attack on a

:17:51. > :17:56.regular basis. Mr Corbyn's basis was what would it achieve? It would

:17:57. > :18:00.achieve a safer position for the UK overall. The war on terrorists. But

:18:01. > :18:05.the Westminster attack, Paris has just been attacked again? There's

:18:06. > :18:09.been attacks which have been stopped by the intelligence services. We

:18:10. > :18:13.must do all we can to support them. The question was about drone

:18:14. > :18:18.strikes. Whether it is drone strikes or other action, we have to be

:18:19. > :18:21.prepared to act. Let's move on to Brexit. It is the major reason the

:18:22. > :18:26.Prime Minister's called the election? Not the only within but

:18:27. > :18:30.the main reason? It is one of the reasons. Now we start the two-year

:18:31. > :18:35.negotiations and then a year afterwards. Also the way in which

:18:36. > :18:38.certain people said they would try to use in the House of Lords or

:18:39. > :18:45.House of Commons to prevent us making progress. I think you'll put

:18:46. > :18:51.in your manifesto, it is the Government's policy, the Brexit

:18:52. > :18:58.negotiating position will be no more freedom of movement. Leave the

:18:59. > :19:01.single market and no longer under the jurisdiction Europe. You expect

:19:02. > :19:07.every Tory MP to fight on that manifesto. What will you do with Ken

:19:08. > :19:11.Clarke and Anna? They will have fought on their manifesto. They will

:19:12. > :19:14.understand the Prime Minister has the authority of the ballot box

:19:15. > :19:20.behind them. Will they fight the election on these positions? I'm

:19:21. > :19:24.sure they'll fight the election supporting the election of a

:19:25. > :19:28.Conservative Government and it's manifesto will quite clearly set

:19:29. > :19:33.out... You know they're against these positions. Ken Clarke has a

:19:34. > :19:37.prod tradition of expressing a certain view. Overall, the party's

:19:38. > :19:41.manifesto, it is not just individuals like Ken Clarke, it is

:19:42. > :19:45.what happens as far as the House of Lords are concerned, people said

:19:46. > :19:49.they'd use the House of Lords to prevent certain measures. You're the

:19:50. > :19:54.party chairman, will it be possible for people like Ken Clarke to fight

:19:55. > :19:59.this election under the Conservative ticket without sub describing to all

:20:00. > :20:05.-- subscribing to all of these Brexit conditions? Ken Clarke will

:20:06. > :20:10.fight as Conservative candidates. That wasn't my question. I know

:20:11. > :20:14.that. Will they be allowed to fight it on their own ticket and not

:20:15. > :20:18.subscribe to what is in your manifesto? The manifesto will be

:20:19. > :20:22.what the Conservative Party fights the General Election on. There will

:20:23. > :20:28.always be cases where people have had different views on different

:20:29. > :20:34.parts of the manifesto. That will be the guiding principles for the

:20:35. > :20:39.party. Philip Hammond says your election promises in 2015, in your

:20:40. > :20:43.manifesto not to raise taxes tied his hands when it came to managing

:20:44. > :20:47.the economy. Do you agree with him? No. The simple fact is we have to do

:20:48. > :20:52.the best things for the economy. We'll set out in our manifesto in a

:20:53. > :20:57.few weeks' time, what the policies will be for the next Parliament. Can

:20:58. > :21:03.I clarify, you don't agree with your Chancellor? What Philip was saying

:21:04. > :21:08.was some of the areas we wants to address as Chancellor, what the

:21:09. > :21:11.party will do, it will set out all the issues we're fighting on. It

:21:12. > :21:15.will set out clearly the choice we have in this country. That's the

:21:16. > :21:19.important thing. Let me put the question to you again. Philip

:21:20. > :21:23.Hammond said this week your election promise in 2015 not to raise taxes

:21:24. > :21:29.had tied his hands when it came to managing the economy. I ask you, do

:21:30. > :21:34.you agree with him? You said no. Philip expressed his view as to what

:21:35. > :21:39.he would like. What I'm saying is in a few weeks' time we'll set the

:21:40. > :21:43.manifesto which will set the policies, agreed with the the

:21:44. > :21:46.Cabinet. He's Chancellor. Doesn't he determine what the economic part of

:21:47. > :21:52.the manifesto is? We'll talk about that in due course. Will you have a

:21:53. > :21:57.lock on the taxes that you locked in 2015 on income tax, VAT, national

:21:58. > :22:04.insurance? That will be decided. You'll see that when we publish the

:22:05. > :22:08.manifesto in a few weeks' time. Will you rule out the possibility taxes

:22:09. > :22:13.may have to rise under a future Conservative Party? Conservative

:22:14. > :22:19.Government. We've taken four million people out of tax. Now, on average,

:22:20. > :22:25.people are paying ?1200 less tax than they were on the same salaries

:22:26. > :22:27.in 2010. I'm very provide of that. I can assure you, the Conservative

:22:28. > :22:31.Party will want to see taxes reduced. It is the Labour Party

:22:32. > :22:37.which will put up taxes. We have the evidence where this he did so.

:22:38. > :22:43.Council tax went up by over 100%. You haven't reduced the tax burden

:22:44. > :22:48.as a percentage of the GDP is now going to reach its highest level

:22:49. > :22:54.since the mid-180s which was when Conservatives were in power. The tax

:22:55. > :22:57.burden in this country under your Government is rising? We've more

:22:58. > :23:00.people paying taxes which is something, because we've a growing

:23:01. > :23:05.economy and more people... What about the tax band? You said you

:23:06. > :23:10.reduced the tax burden on your own Government's figures is rising? We

:23:11. > :23:15.have reduced the tax burden. The threshold at which people start

:23:16. > :23:21.paying. These are tax rates not the tax burden. It is rising. The tax

:23:22. > :23:26.rates have been reduced. You said tax burden. Perhaps I misspoke. Tax

:23:27. > :23:34.rates have been reduced. We'll leave it there. No doubt we'll speak again

:23:35. > :23:35.between now and June Is France now about to make it

:23:36. > :23:40.a hat-trick of shocks The prospect terrifies

:23:41. > :23:43.the governing elite in Paris. But they're no less scared

:23:44. > :23:45.in Brussels and Berlin, given what it could mean

:23:46. > :23:48.for the whole EU project, never mind the huge potential impact

:23:49. > :24:07.on our own Brexit negotiations. 11 candidates are contesting

:24:08. > :24:10.the first round of the presidential Only the top two will go forward

:24:11. > :24:16.to the run-off on May 7th. For the first time since General De

:24:17. > :24:21.Gaulle created the fifth Republic in 1958, it's perfectly possible that

:24:22. > :24:25.no candidate from the ruling parties of the centre-left or the

:24:26. > :24:28.centre-right will even make it The election has been dominated by

:24:29. > :24:35.the hard right in the shape of the who's never been elected

:24:36. > :24:42.to anything and only started his own party

:24:43. > :24:44.a few months ago. And the far left in the form

:24:45. > :24:47.of Jean-Luc Melenchon, a former Trotskyite who has surged

:24:48. > :24:51.in the final weeks of the campaign. The only candidate left from the

:24:52. > :24:54.traditional governing parties is the centre-right's

:24:55. > :24:57.Francois Fillon and he's been struggling to stay in

:24:58. > :25:00.the race ever since it was revealed that his Welsh wife was being paid

:25:01. > :25:05.at generous public expense for a job I've just come across

:25:06. > :25:20.this magazine cover and it kind of sums up the mood

:25:21. > :25:23.of the French people. It's got the five main candidates

:25:24. > :25:26.for President here but it calls them the biggest liar, the biggest cheat,

:25:27. > :25:29.the biggest traitor, the most paranoid, the biggest demagogue,

:25:30. > :25:32.and it says they are the winners The four leading candidates,

:25:33. > :25:43.Le Pen, Melenchon, Macron and Fillon, or in with a chance

:25:44. > :25:46.of making it to the second round. Only a couple of points separates

:25:47. > :25:48.them in the polls, Frankly, no one has a clue what's

:25:49. > :25:54.going to happen. Of the four, there is a feeling that

:25:55. > :26:00.two of them may be President But the two of them may not find

:26:01. > :26:13.themselves in the second round. Somebody said to me that the man or

:26:14. > :26:26.woman on the Paris Metro has as much a chance of knowing

:26:27. > :26:30.who will win as the greatest experts Because the more expert you are

:26:31. > :26:37.the more you may be wrong. The country has largely

:26:38. > :26:42.stagnated for over a decade. One in ten are unemployed,

:26:43. > :26:45.one in four if you are unlucky Like Britain in the '70s there is

:26:46. > :26:49.the pervasive stench There are three keywords that come

:26:50. > :26:56.to mind. Anger, anger at the elite, and in

:26:57. > :27:03.particular the political elite. And an element of

:27:04. > :27:09.nostalgia for the past. These three words were decisive

:27:10. > :27:13.in the Brexit referendum. They are decisive in

:27:14. > :27:24.the French election. Identity and security has been

:27:25. > :27:28.as important in this election France is a proud nation, it worries

:27:29. > :27:35.about its future in Europe It seems bereft of ideas about how

:27:36. > :27:39.to deal with its largely Muslim migrant population, huge chunks of

:27:40. > :27:43.which are increasingly divorced It is quite simply exhausted by

:27:44. > :27:54.the never-ending Islamist terrorist attacks, the latest only days before

:27:55. > :27:57.voting in the iconic heart of this If Fillon or Macron emerge

:27:58. > :28:08.victorious then there will be continuity of sorts, though Fillon

:28:09. > :28:12.will struggle to implement his Thatcherite agenda and Macron will

:28:13. > :28:16.not be able to count on the support of the French parliament, the

:28:17. > :28:19.National Assembly, for his reforms. But if it's Le Pen or Jean-Luc

:28:20. > :28:25.Melenchon then all bets are off. Both are hardline French

:28:26. > :28:28.nationalists, anti the euro, anti the European Union, anti-fiscal

:28:29. > :28:31.discipline, anti the market, Either in the Elysee Palace

:28:32. > :28:40.would represent an existential Brexit would simply become

:28:41. > :28:49.a sideshow, the negotiations could just peter out as Brussels

:28:50. > :28:53.and Berlin had bigger fish to fry. We're joined now from

:28:54. > :29:05.Paris by the journalist 8th Welcome to the programme.

:29:06. > :29:09.Overshadowing the voting today was yet another appalling terrorist

:29:10. > :29:15.attack in Paris on Thursday night. Do we have any indications of how

:29:16. > :29:19.that's playing into the election? That initially people thought this

:29:20. > :29:25.has been almost foiled in that the police were there as a ramp up. One

:29:26. > :29:29.policeman was killed. But the terrorist did not spray the crowd

:29:30. > :29:34.with bullets. It was seen as not having much of an effect on the

:29:35. > :29:41.election. This has changed. We now know the policeman who was killed, a

:29:42. > :29:46.young man about to the promoted, he was at the Bataclan the night of the

:29:47. > :29:53.terror attack. He was a fighter for LGBT rights. The fact he was

:29:54. > :29:59.promoted, happy within his job, he has this fresh face. Sudden, he's

:30:00. > :30:05.one of us. It took perhaps 48 hours for the French to process this. But

:30:06. > :30:11.now they're angry and this may actually change the game, at least

:30:12. > :30:18.at the margins. To whose advantage? I would say the two who might

:30:19. > :30:22.benefit from this are Marine Le Pen, she's been absolutely

:30:23. > :30:27.anti-immigration, anti-anything. And made no bones about it as she

:30:28. > :30:30.immediately made rather strange announcement in which she'd said if

:30:31. > :30:34.she'd been president none of the terror attacks which happened in

:30:35. > :30:42.France would have happened. Francois Fillon has written a book two years

:30:43. > :30:46.ago called Combating Islamic Terrorism he's has an organised plan

:30:47. > :30:50.in his manifesto. Unlike Emmanuel Macron who stumbled when he was

:30:51. > :30:54.asked the evening this happened what he thought, he said, I can't dream

:30:55. > :30:58.up an anti-terror programme overnight. The question, of course,

:30:59. > :31:02.that arrows was this is not the sort of thing that's just happened

:31:03. > :31:08.overnight. It's been unfortunately the fate of France for many years.

:31:09. > :31:13.Let me ask you this finally, what ever the outcome on May 7th in the

:31:14. > :31:19.second round, who ever wins, would it be fair to say French politics

:31:20. > :31:22.will never be the same again? Yes. Absolutely it's a very strange

:31:23. > :31:26.thing. People have no become really excited about this. You cannot go

:31:27. > :31:31.anywhere without people discussing heatedly this election. The anger

:31:32. > :31:37.that was described is very accurate. Very true. There was this feeling as

:31:38. > :31:42.for the Brexit voters and the Trump voters, vast parts of the people

:31:43. > :31:48.were being talked down to by people who despised them. This has to

:31:49. > :31:53.change. If it doesn't change, we cannot predict what the future will

:31:54. > :31:58.be. We'll know the results or at least the ex-the Poll London time

:31:59. > :32:00.tonight at 8.00pm. Thank for joining us from the glorious heart of your

:32:01. > :32:04.city. Now, the Green Party currently has

:32:05. > :32:07.one MP and they'll be contesting many more seats in June

:32:08. > :32:10.as well as hoping to increase their presence on councils in

:32:11. > :32:12.the local elections on 4th May. Launching their campaign

:32:13. > :32:14.on Thursday, co-leader Caroline Lucas made

:32:15. > :32:16.a pitch to younger voters. When it comes to young

:32:17. > :32:18.people they've been But one crucial way they've been

:32:19. > :32:23.betrayed is by what this generation and this government and the previous

:32:24. > :32:26.ones have been doing when it comes We know we had the hottest year

:32:27. > :32:31.on record last year, you know, you almost think what else does

:32:32. > :32:34.the environment need to be doing All the signs are there

:32:35. > :32:37.and it is young people who are going to be bearing

:32:38. > :32:40.the brunt of a wrecked environment and that's why it's so important

:32:41. > :32:44.that when we come to making that pitch to, yes, the country at large

:32:45. > :32:46.but to young people in particular, I think climate change,

:32:47. > :32:48.the environment, looking after our precious resources,

:32:49. > :32:53.has to be up there. And I'm joined now by the Green

:32:54. > :33:07.MEP, Molly Scott Cato. Welcome back to the programme.

:33:08. > :33:11.Promised to scrap university tuition fees, increase NHS funding, rollback

:33:12. > :33:15.cuts to local councils spending, how much would that cost and how would

:33:16. > :33:18.you pay for it? Like the other parties we haven't got a costed

:33:19. > :33:21.manifesto yet, it's only a few days since the election was announced so

:33:22. > :33:25.I will come back and explain the figures. You don't know? Like every

:33:26. > :33:31.party we have not produced accosted manifesto yet, we produced one last

:33:32. > :33:34.time but public spending figures have changed so we're not in a

:33:35. > :33:39.position to do that but we will be in a week or so. What taxes would

:33:40. > :33:43.you like to consider raising? We would consider having higher taxes

:33:44. > :33:48.for the better off in society. I think we need to increase the amount

:33:49. > :33:51.of tax wealthier people pay. How do you define better off? I'm not

:33:52. > :33:57.entirely clear what the precise number would be but I think 100,000

:33:58. > :34:01.people would pay a bit more, 150,000 quite considerably more but the real

:34:02. > :34:04.focus needs to be on companies avoiding paying taxes. I work on

:34:05. > :34:07.that a lot in my role in the European Parliament, we see an

:34:08. > :34:10.enormous amount of tax avoidance by companies moving profits from

:34:11. > :34:14.country to country and we need European corporation to make that

:34:15. > :34:20.successful. It has not made much difference yet. We have made lots of

:34:21. > :34:23.changes. Google turned over $1 billion and only paid 25 million in

:34:24. > :34:28.taxes last year. There was a significant fine introduced by the

:34:29. > :34:32.competition commission on Apple and in the case of Google we must change

:34:33. > :34:38.the laws so that people cannot move profits from country to country.

:34:39. > :34:41.Everybody wants to do it. But you couldn't face a big spending

:34:42. > :34:45.programme on the ability to do that. You'd have to increase other taxes.

:34:46. > :34:48.If you look at the cost of free student tuition, tuition fees and

:34:49. > :34:51.also maintenance grants to students, that would come in at about 10

:34:52. > :34:55.billion a year. One way of paying for that would be to remove the

:34:56. > :34:58.upper threshold on National Insurance, bringing in 20 billion a

:34:59. > :35:03.year, that's the order of magnitude we are talking about. It is not

:35:04. > :35:07.vast, and some of the proposals we have... That would be an increase on

:35:08. > :35:14.the better of tax? National Insurance on people earning...

:35:15. > :35:18.People earning above 42,000. You would have another 10% tax above

:35:19. > :35:24.42,000? I can't remember exactly how much the National Insurance rate

:35:25. > :35:28.changes by. But in government figures it would be 28 billion

:35:29. > :35:31.raised. I think it is up to 45, a bit more you pay a marginal rate of

:35:32. > :35:36.40%, you would have them pay a marginal rate of over 50%? We would

:35:37. > :35:40.put the National Insurance rate on higher incomes the same as it is on

:35:41. > :35:44.lower incomes. If you are a school head of an English department on 50,

:35:45. > :35:50.60,000 a year you would face a marginal rate under U of over 50%?

:35:51. > :35:55.It is not useful to do this as a mental maths exercise but if you

:35:56. > :35:59.look at other proposals would could have a landlord licensing system,

:36:00. > :36:02.longer term leases on properties, so young people particularly, but also

:36:03. > :36:05.older people who rent, could have more security which needn't cost

:36:06. > :36:09.anything. We could insist on landlords paying for that. The

:36:10. > :36:13.mental arithmetic seems clear but we will come back to that. How is the

:36:14. > :36:18.Progressive Alliance coming? It is going well, I have heard of a lot of

:36:19. > :36:23.interest at local level. Winterset this in contest, context, lots of

:36:24. > :36:27.progressives are concerned about the crisis in public services, prisons,

:36:28. > :36:31.social care system, and also about the Tories' hard extreme Brexit they

:36:32. > :36:36.are threatening. You want the left to come together? Theresa May has

:36:37. > :36:39.given us opportunity, she has taken a risk because she has problems with

:36:40. > :36:42.backbenchers, she doesn't think she can get through Brexit with a small

:36:43. > :36:46.majority so there is an opportunity and we are saying progressives must

:36:47. > :36:48.come together to corporate, Conservatives are effective at using

:36:49. > :36:54.the first-past-the-post system and we have to become effective as well.

:36:55. > :36:57.Do you accept this Progressive Alliance cannot become the

:36:58. > :37:01.government and Mr Corbyn is the Prime Minister? How could it happen

:37:02. > :37:05.otherwise? I think that is a secondary question. For me the

:37:06. > :37:08.primary question is who do people choose to vote for? Aluminium

:37:09. > :37:12.government afterwards comes after the election. In most countries that

:37:13. > :37:15.is the case. I understand that but we have the system we have and you

:37:16. > :37:19.accept this Progressive Alliance cannot be in power and thus mystical

:37:20. > :37:22.Burmese Prime Minister? Personally I think Mr Corbyn is less of a threat

:37:23. > :37:25.to the country than Theresa May, she has shown herself to be an

:37:26. > :37:31.authoritarian leader and she has said she doesn't want to have

:37:32. > :37:34.dissidents, which I would say is reasonable opposition, and what we

:37:35. > :37:36.are suggesting at the moment is there is a way of avoiding that very

:37:37. > :37:39.hard Brexit and damage to public services. You'd be happy to pay the

:37:40. > :37:44.price of having Mr Corbyn as Prime Minister? I do not see that as a

:37:45. > :37:47.price. People have the choice of Jeremy Corbyn or Theresa May as

:37:48. > :37:52.Prime Minister, that's the system that works. You would prefer Mr

:37:53. > :37:54.Corbyn? I would but votes are translated into seats and the

:37:55. > :37:56.Progressive Alliance is a step towards that.

:37:57. > :37:58.It's just gone 3:50pm, you're watching the Sunday Politics.

:37:59. > :38:00.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, Wales

:38:01. > :38:02.and Northern Ireland who leave us now.

:38:03. > :38:15.Hello, I'm Martyn Oates. minutes, the Week Ahead.

:38:16. > :38:18.Coming up on the Sunday Politics here in the South West:

:38:19. > :38:22.Will Labour's new pro-Corbyn members in Plymouth get out

:38:23. > :38:26.on the doorstep for a candidate from the centre-left?

:38:27. > :38:29.I want people who are real, I don't want people who are fake.

:38:30. > :38:31.They're not faking it, they're actually

:38:32. > :38:34.believing it, they're living it, they want to be a Labour candidate

:38:35. > :38:38.and they want to be part of a Labour government led by Jeremy Corbyn.

:38:39. > :38:41.And for the next 20 minutes, I'm joined by the Lib Dem

:38:42. > :38:43.peer Judith Jolly, and by Ernie Warrender,

:38:44. > :38:46.who's hoping to stand for Ukip in June's general election.

:38:47. > :38:51.Welcome, both of you, to the programme.

:38:52. > :39:01.To kick things off, should this election be all about Brexit, Ernie?

:39:02. > :39:06.It's probably going to be but it's virtually a cynical hijacking of

:39:07. > :39:10.democracy. I feel terribly sorry for Northern Ireland because they will

:39:11. > :39:14.have to vote again. This isn't about electing a government. In my view

:39:15. > :39:19.that is pretty much done deal. This is about electing an effective

:39:20. > :39:24.opposition, and what you have is 17.3 million people who voted for

:39:25. > :39:30.Brexit, Brexit, Lead, exit, they knew what they were voting for

:39:31. > :39:34.clearly, and there are serious concerns that Theresa May will not

:39:35. > :39:40.deliver on immigration, people are worried about fisheries. By putting

:39:41. > :39:48.Ukip MPs in Parliament to counter the virtually 100% Remain, has to be

:39:49. > :39:52.done. Judith, you and your leader want to make this about Brexit as

:39:53. > :39:54.well from the opposing sides. We were watching something about

:39:55. > :40:01.manifestos earlier and our manifesto will not be all about Brexit. There

:40:02. > :40:06.is a whole issue around health and social care. It looks like it has

:40:07. > :40:11.been knocked into the long grass but it is a disaster waiting to happen.

:40:12. > :40:15.It is not just about Brexit. We have a distinctive view on Brexit,

:40:16. > :40:23.clearly, and you Anae so far seriously disagree, but... There

:40:24. > :40:25.will be More Of That, I suspect. There will be More Of That. As the

:40:26. > :40:29.programme wears on. Once again, the South West looks

:40:30. > :40:31.like playing a central role in the election,

:40:32. > :40:33.with particular focus here on the traditional tussle

:40:34. > :40:35.between the Conservatives The former will be fighting to keep

:40:36. > :40:39.all the seats they gained The latter will be equally

:40:40. > :40:42.determined to get them back. And, keen not to be left out,

:40:43. > :40:45.some of the other parties in the fray are already talking

:40:46. > :40:47.about pre-election deals Tim Farron rolled into Truro

:40:48. > :40:59.on local election business just an hour after Theresa May

:41:00. > :41:03.called the snap election, but the Lib Dems, the party of pavement

:41:04. > :41:06.politics, say they are The Liberal Democrats have been

:41:07. > :41:11.calling for an early election, and we've been ready

:41:12. > :41:13.for an early election, The party machine is

:41:14. > :41:19.already up and running, local elections, but with a June

:41:20. > :41:23.the 8th poll, familiar faces are encouraging tactical voting,

:41:24. > :41:26.where the Lib Dems are in a strong In those seats, we would

:41:27. > :41:32.clearly be encouraging, indeed, even members

:41:33. > :41:36.of parties that came third, fourth, fifth last time,

:41:37. > :41:39.to perhaps think carefully about whether they want to have an MP

:41:40. > :41:44.who maybe isn't entirely to their liking, but at least firstly is not

:41:45. > :41:48.a Conservative, and secondly is someone who at least

:41:49. > :41:54.is on the progressive centre-left. There is one place

:41:55. > :41:55.in Cornwall where the Green vote alone would have been

:41:56. > :41:58.enough to get the Lib Dems over This is Andrew George's

:41:59. > :42:03.old constituency, where the Conservatives beat

:42:04. > :42:06.him by 2,500 votes. The maths is simple,

:42:07. > :42:13.but for now, cards are being Certainly there are places,

:42:14. > :42:17.St Ives and others around the country, where Greens

:42:18. > :42:19.can make a difference. In other constituencies,

:42:20. > :42:21.the Lib Dems themselves can make a difference to the outcome,

:42:22. > :42:24.so what we want to be able to do is to have talks,

:42:25. > :42:27.to look at this as fast as possible, given the very short time

:42:28. > :42:30.we have before the election, to see But as in any battle,

:42:31. > :42:35.it's not all one-sided. Some in Ukip are keen to keep Brexit

:42:36. > :42:39.top of the agenda, and are considering playing

:42:40. > :42:42.a similar card. My opinion is that we need to be

:42:43. > :42:45.very clever, and not necessarily stand wherever we can,

:42:46. > :42:49.like we have done in the past. In the referendum,

:42:50. > :42:53.George Eustice was superb. He led from the front,

:42:54. > :42:55.as did Cheryl Murray and Scott Mann, so I don't see why

:42:56. > :42:58.we would want to consider getting And while the Greens

:42:59. > :43:04.this week made an offer to step aside in Plymouth,

:43:05. > :43:06.where the race is traditionally Labour

:43:07. > :43:07.versus Tory, the question is, should

:43:08. > :43:11.the Lib Dems be doing the same? There will be places

:43:12. > :43:15.in the country where Liberal Democrat supporters would be

:43:16. > :43:20.wise to vote Labour if they want to Parties of all colours

:43:21. > :43:26.will be holding talks this week, with any deals needed

:43:27. > :43:30.to be decided on very soon, amid warnings by some Conservatives that

:43:31. > :43:36.electoral pacts are undemocratic. And to discuss this,

:43:37. > :43:40.we're joined by the MP for Camborne and Redruth,

:43:41. > :43:51.George Eustice. He was mentioned in the report and

:43:52. > :43:56.joins us from London. We heard there from Bob Smith, your Ukip opponent

:43:57. > :44:00.in 2015. I think the number of votes they garnered was the size of your

:44:01. > :44:05.majority. Presumably would be delighted if he stood aside this

:44:06. > :44:10.time. The reality is, I was a former Ukip candidate in 1999, but their

:44:11. > :44:14.job is done. This country voted to leave the EU, Ukip was a single

:44:15. > :44:27.issue party set up to campaign for that, and what we

:44:28. > :44:33.need to be Theresa May, which is why we need this general election to

:44:34. > :44:37.clear the air so we have strong and stable leadership going into these

:44:38. > :44:43.vital negotiations. I want to come to this issue of electoral pacts and

:44:44. > :44:46.parties standing aside. Ernie, you heard your Ukip colleague Bob Smith

:44:47. > :44:52.saying in three seats in Cornwall they shouldn't stand. You hope you

:44:53. > :44:55.will and can stand. I have to say I would sooner stick my sensitive

:44:56. > :45:00.places in the mouth of a hungry lion than do a pact with the Tories. We

:45:01. > :45:02.saw what they did to the Lib Dems, they destroyed them. Your job is

:45:03. > :45:22.done, George, it's a reasonable point,

:45:23. > :45:24.isn't it? The job isn't done, because when you look at the papers

:45:25. > :45:26.and all the comments, Theresa May was a Remainer, her Chancellor was a

:45:27. > :45:30.Remainer, the Brexit committee is 11-7 remain, chaired by Hilary Benn,

:45:31. > :45:33.the job is not done in any way, and you need Ukip MPs. Plus it is not a

:45:34. > :45:35.single issue party. When you look at our manifesto, suddenly, the Tories

:45:36. > :45:37.have had a Damascene change on grammar schools, the NHS, respect

:45:38. > :45:42.for the Armed Forces, it is not single issue any more. Will George

:45:43. > :45:46.Eustice face a Ukip challenge? Paul Nuttall was suggesting they could

:45:47. > :45:50.have him. My view, and we are all inputting into the manifesto at the

:45:51. > :45:54.moment, if you must give four million people the opportunity to

:45:55. > :45:59.take a purple and yellow box. It is hijacking democracy if you don't.

:46:00. > :46:03.Judith, in terms of pacts, Andrew George also said this week that he

:46:04. > :46:10.would consider it wise for Lib Dem supporters in some constituencies to

:46:11. > :46:15.vote Labour. This is nothing new. People voted tactically, but it is

:46:16. > :46:19.new to have parties actually saying, vote for an opposing party.

:46:20. > :46:28.Certainly, the Green Party were very helpful to us when we won Richmond

:46:29. > :46:32.recently. I am not party to any deals or conversations about deals

:46:33. > :46:35.in Cornwall, but I wouldn't be surprised if conversations were

:46:36. > :46:41.happening. Whether there will be deals or not, I really don't know,

:46:42. > :46:46.but again, we are very keen to give the country an opportunity to vote

:46:47. > :46:51.Lib Dem in the same way Ernie has described. Sorry to interject, can I

:46:52. > :46:56.just say that at the end of the day, when you say a deal, a deal as a two

:46:57. > :47:01.way event, and it won't be with the Tory party or the Labour Party or

:47:02. > :47:05.the Lib Dems. Can I come in and say, let the other parties talk about

:47:06. > :47:15.pacts and coalitions. This is not a time for some coalition between

:47:16. > :47:18.Ukip, labour, the Green Party and the Lib Dems, to try and do

:47:19. > :47:20.negotiation. This is a time for strong and stable leadership which

:47:21. > :47:24.is why we need Theresa May. Do you think the Lib Dems would going to

:47:25. > :47:27.four way packed? This is not a tie for some chaotic coalition and pact,

:47:28. > :47:32.-- not a time, this is a time for clarity of leadership to get the

:47:33. > :47:36.negotiations right, which needs to be Theresa May negotiating. George,

:47:37. > :47:39.it looks and sounds as if you are cutting to the chase in terms of

:47:40. > :47:43.what might be one of the main messages from the Tory campaign,

:47:44. > :47:55.which is you risk getting this coalition of chaos. Of course, last

:47:56. > :47:57.time you push the line that there was a risk of Ed Miliband's Labour

:47:58. > :48:00.ruling the country with the SNP. Isn't there a problem that with the

:48:01. > :48:03.polls as they are, if people think the Conservatives are likely to get

:48:04. > :48:05.a majority, places like Cornwall and Devon might say, if that will happen

:48:06. > :48:08.anyway, we would rather have an opposition MP and not give the

:48:09. > :48:13.government this overwhelming documents at Westminster? I know and

:48:14. > :48:18.safe seats in the West Country, and safe seats in the West Country, and

:48:19. > :48:22.it is always hotly contested. I was first elected with a majority of

:48:23. > :48:26.just 66 and understand the volatility of the West Country. We

:48:27. > :48:29.take nothing for granted and will be campaigning day in, day out, getting

:48:30. > :48:33.the message across that this country needs strong, stable leadership but

:48:34. > :48:37.also the record the Conservatives have delivered as MPs. When we had

:48:38. > :48:43.Lib Dems they used a point out problems and solve nothing. Since we

:48:44. > :48:47.have Conservative MPs, local Conservative candidates elected,

:48:48. > :48:49.they have delivered, getting investment in hospitals and

:48:50. > :48:57.infrastructure, creating jobs. That's what we need. Judith. I would

:48:58. > :49:02.take issue with that. Certainly it is the role of an MP, we were having

:49:03. > :49:07.this discussion earlier, to talk to ministers and put things on, but to

:49:08. > :49:11.suggest Lib Dems never do that is very disingenuous. Isn't this the

:49:12. > :49:17.case, and if this is the key message from the Conservatives, but at the

:49:18. > :49:23.last election, the message that voting Lib Dem could facilitate

:49:24. > :49:29.labour - SNP coalition was deadly to use. Yes. So this time you should be

:49:30. > :49:34.worried talking about a coalition of chaos. Yes and no Mac, I am not

:49:35. > :49:39.worried. We are going out and explaining what our policies are.

:49:40. > :49:43.Our manifesto will be out in the next week I would imagine along with

:49:44. > :49:47.the others, and we will do that. In fact we have just had to say to all

:49:48. > :49:50.those campaigning for local councils, thank you very much but

:49:51. > :49:55.you can have a day off after the election and we are back on the

:49:56. > :49:59.doors, so that is what we shall do. Can I just say, George is saying

:50:00. > :50:04.what a great job the Tories have done, I remember them campaigning

:50:05. > :50:07.very strongly on getting broadband, communication systems, going in the

:50:08. > :50:18.West Country. It is better in parts of Africa. It is appalling. That is

:50:19. > :50:23.a simple nonsense. Cornwall have high-speed broadband... Big problems

:50:24. > :50:30.in Devon and Somerset, to be fair. They had European money, but that is

:50:31. > :50:33.another debate! 10 million has gone into piloting broadband in the most

:50:34. > :50:37.remote areas and we are constantly putting money into rolling out

:50:38. > :50:39.broadband in moral areas. George Eustice, thank you for joining us.

:50:40. > :50:41.If the last election was disastrous for the Lib Dems,

:50:42. > :50:45.it wasn't great for Labour either - Exeter's Ben Bradshaw is the party's

:50:46. > :50:48.In June, Labour will be hoping to regain at least

:50:49. > :50:50.one seat in Plymouth, but the selection of candidates

:50:51. > :50:53.is still to be finalised, and opinion as to whether

:50:54. > :50:55.the present leadership offers a glorious opportunity or a massive

:50:56. > :51:06.You have got 50 days between now and possibly changing

:51:07. > :51:09.A rare insight into the ranks of Corbyn's footsoldiers.

:51:10. > :51:12.No covert operations here, they say, just passionate politics.

:51:13. > :51:14.How about we have a session where we start to

:51:15. > :51:21.But there are a few thorny questions, chiefly,

:51:22. > :51:24.who fronts up and leads the charge in Plymouth?

:51:25. > :51:28.Whose name will be spelt out on the ballot paper?

:51:29. > :51:30.And I hereby declare that Oliver Colville

:51:31. > :51:33.is duly elected to serve as the member of Parliament for the said

:51:34. > :51:39.The Plymouth Sutton and Devonport seat is number eight on

:51:40. > :51:41.Labour's national target list, and at number 14 is the neighbouring

:51:42. > :51:48.constituency of Moor View, lost by Alison Seabeck in 2015.

:51:49. > :51:51.She is a Corbyn sceptic, who this week said she

:51:52. > :51:55.wouldn't be going over the top this time round.

:51:56. > :51:57.For those leading Corbyn's ever-loyal brigade in

:51:58. > :52:01.Plymouth, a vacancy for one of their own?

:52:02. > :52:04.I'm going to say to you fairly clearly that if somebody doesn't

:52:05. > :52:08.feel it's right for them to campaign as a candidate

:52:09. > :52:13.with Jeremy Corbyn as leader, then I don't want them to.

:52:14. > :52:16.I want people who are real, I don't want people who are fake.

:52:17. > :52:17.They are not faking it, they're actually

:52:18. > :52:20.believing it, they're living it, they want to be

:52:21. > :52:23.a Labour candidate, and they want to be part of a Labour

:52:24. > :52:28.they will campaign for whoever is selected, but this grassroots

:52:29. > :52:30.organisation that backs Jeremy Corbyn has been likened to Nazi

:52:31. > :52:34.stormtroopers by one of Labour's own.

:52:35. > :52:40.Michael Foster ran for the party in Camborne and Redruth in 2015.

:52:41. > :52:42.He now says traditional party members in Cornwall are being frozen

:52:43. > :52:49.What is very very clear is that Momentum, who are

:52:50. > :52:52.now the majority of members, only support their own.

:52:53. > :52:55.There was no support, when I went out a couple of

:52:56. > :52:58.times with candidates, at all, from those Momentum members.

:52:59. > :53:00.The region's only Labour MP has also had well-catalogued disagreements

:53:01. > :53:08.In one instance, Mr Bradshaw described the leadership as "A

:53:09. > :53:12.destructive combination of incompetence, deceit and menace."

:53:13. > :53:15.I think a lot of my colleagues, as you

:53:16. > :53:18.have seen today, have taken a good, hard look at themselves and their

:53:19. > :53:21.consciences and have come out and said they just don't think Jeremy

:53:22. > :53:24.has got the right qualities to take us into an election, and in fact

:53:25. > :53:31.Unsurprisingly, that's not how they see it

:53:32. > :53:33.Unsurprisingly, that's not how they see it at the Momentum

:53:34. > :53:37.The buzz I'm getting from the meeting is enthusiasm - people

:53:38. > :53:39.are excited by the upcoming election.

:53:40. > :53:41.Like I said in that room tonight, some of us never thought we

:53:42. > :53:45.would get the opportunity to do this in our lives,

:53:46. > :53:47.and suddenly for that moment to arrive, it's like, it

:53:48. > :53:52.The decision on who fights for Labour and where

:53:53. > :53:55.now rests with the top brass, who say they'll have their men or

:53:56. > :54:05.To discuss this, we're joined by Labour MP Ben Bradshaw,

:54:06. > :54:10.who increased his majority back in 2015.

:54:11. > :54:14.Welcome to the programme, Ben. Do you not now find yourself

:54:15. > :54:19.position you predicted a few months position you predicted a few months

:54:20. > :54:22.ago of being led into a disaster? That was during a leadership

:54:23. > :54:27.election. But what's changed in terms of your assessment of Jeremy

:54:28. > :54:31.Corbyn? Let's get a reality check. We are currently more than 20

:54:32. > :54:33.percentage points behind the Conservatives in the polls. That

:54:34. > :54:37.landslide territory for the Tories, landslide territory for the Tories,

:54:38. > :54:41.so anybody, for the sake of our democracy, who doesn't want a

:54:42. > :54:53.the sake of our schools and the sake of our schools and

:54:54. > :54:55.hospitals, or who is worried about the extreme version of Brexit the

:54:56. > :54:57.Tories are pursuing, will do everything they can in this

:54:58. > :54:59.election, wherever they live, to support the candidate with the

:55:00. > :55:04.best chance of leading a conservative. Can your party change

:55:05. > :55:06.radically in the next few months? It cannot but what I have been

:55:07. > :55:11.campaigning on yesterday, we have more than twice the support in

:55:12. > :55:15.Exeter on the first day of the campaign yesterday as on my local

:55:16. > :55:19.record. People in Exeter will vote for the candidate they want to be

:55:20. > :55:22.their MP for the next five years, they are not voting for a party

:55:23. > :55:26.leader or a government. The result in Exeter will not affect the

:55:27. > :55:30.national result, and Labour supporters and members across our

:55:31. > :55:35.region will do their best to maximise the Labour vote and avoid

:55:36. > :55:38.the terrible prospect of a landslide Conservative government completely

:55:39. > :55:43.unchecked, taking its acts to our public services, our schools and

:55:44. > :55:46.NHS, and pushing this extreme form of Brexit outside the single market

:55:47. > :55:51.and the customs union, which would be extremely bad for prosperity,

:55:52. > :55:55.jobs and investment in our region. Do you accept there is no prospect

:55:56. > :56:00.of a Labour government would Jeremy Corbyn as Prime Minister? I am

:56:01. > :56:04.asking you to get real. The reality is we are 20 points behind in the

:56:05. > :56:09.polls. Don't forget some people may say opinion polls may be wrong, the

:56:10. > :56:11.problem is in the past when they have been wrong, they have

:56:12. > :56:17.underestimated the Conservative lead. That is where we are. We are

:56:18. > :56:20.in a fight against the Tory landslide, and in the south-west we

:56:21. > :56:24.are in a fight against a 1-party state. I think it would be terrible

:56:25. > :56:26.for our democracy and the country and for all those people who need

:56:27. > :56:43.some sort of scrutiny and challenge for what would be the most

:56:44. > :56:45.right wing Conservative government in our country's history. Just

:56:46. > :56:47.quickly, we were talking earlier about the idea of Progressive

:56:48. > :56:50.Alliance, Greens standing in favour of Labour or Lib Dem candidates, do

:56:51. > :56:52.you have sympathy with this? I don't know what is happening about that

:56:53. > :56:55.but I have more faith in the intelligence of the British people

:56:56. > :56:58.to do the right thing. In Exeter and Plymouth, if you don't want a hard

:56:59. > :57:00.Brexiteer right wing Tory you vote for me or the Labour candidates in

:57:01. > :57:03.Plymouth. Elsewhere the public are able to make up their own judgment

:57:04. > :57:07.as to who has the best chance of beating the Conservatives, and I am

:57:08. > :57:11.sure they will. Judith and Ernie, you are both in different ways

:57:12. > :57:23.fishing potentially for Labour voters.

:57:24. > :57:31.Just generally, I think Labour voters are not happy with Jeremy

:57:32. > :57:35.Corbyn as leader. We are knocking on doors at the moment on the Cornwall

:57:36. > :57:41.Council campaign and Labour voters are saying they will support us.

:57:42. > :57:46.Quickly, Ernie, you are in a similar position with this ambition from the

:57:47. > :57:49.Prime Minister to gain Labour voters in the north, Eurosceptic Labour

:57:50. > :57:54.voters in the north, you are about the same thing? Not just in the

:57:55. > :58:10.north to be honest. I did a couple of years on the Assembly line at

:58:11. > :58:14.Ford in Dagenham. This has become not the Labour Party I knew as

:58:15. > :58:16.El-Abd. Yes, Ben is right, there needs to be credible and strong

:58:17. > :58:19.opposition. As I said earlier, the government is a done deal. You are

:58:20. > :58:21.voting for a strong, credible opposition, checks and balances, and

:58:22. > :58:23.if the vote Labour, Lib Dem, SNP, you will get us another referendum.

:58:24. > :58:27.Quickly, Ben, do you have preferences for candidates in

:58:28. > :58:31.Plymouth, which of course is generally in contention for labour?

:58:32. > :58:35.I understand the excellent Luke Pollard has already been confirmed

:58:36. > :58:38.as our candidate. He had a great result, came very close last time,

:58:39. > :58:42.and I am sure I candidate in the other Plymouth seat will be of

:58:43. > :58:44.equally high calibre and will work extremely hard. Ben, thank you very

:58:45. > :58:45.much. Now our regular round-up

:58:46. > :58:54.of the political week in 60 seconds. The Prime Minister says she'll

:58:55. > :58:56.be visiting Cornwall ...but I recognise the importance

:58:57. > :59:02.of small businesses in Cornwall, and I look forward to visiting

:59:03. > :59:05.Cornwall in the next few weeks and being able to talk to him

:59:06. > :59:08.and others about the importance A scrappage scheme for diesel cars

:59:09. > :59:15.is in order, according to Devon MP and EFRA Committee chairman Neil

:59:16. > :59:19.Parish. This is a policy with

:59:20. > :59:21.significant public support, especially as we move,

:59:22. > :59:23.dare I say, towards a general election,

:59:24. > :59:25.although that's not in my speech. Calls for the law to allow Cornish

:59:26. > :59:29.flags on numberplates I believe it would be a great way

:59:30. > :59:36.to serve the new Great Britain that we want post-membership

:59:37. > :59:39.of the EU. And North Cornwall MP Scott Mann

:59:40. > :59:44.runs his first London Marathon. I'm hoping to raise ?3,000

:59:45. > :59:47.so I can give ?1,000 to each of my cottage hospitals,

:59:48. > :00:07.so please sponsor me, Judith, you are a Cornish pier,

:00:08. > :00:13.would you like a Cornish flag on your number plate? There are loads!

:00:14. > :00:18.I have noticed this! I don't think you need a law to do this. It is the

:00:19. > :00:23.debate on whether it is legal at the moment. I don't think it. The

:00:24. > :00:28.Cornish people doing it! Ernie, to be fair, a couple of people were

:00:29. > :00:33.interested in Cornish flags but the point was made by those who tabled

:00:34. > :00:36.the debate that regional flags of counties, the White Rose of

:00:37. > :00:41.Yorkshire for instance, any sympathy for that? As the only national party

:00:42. > :00:45.spokesman for small business for Brexiteer -- who is a Brexiteer, the

:00:46. > :00:49.rest are in the past, it would be a great boost for the number plate

:00:50. > :00:54.industry. They would have to change them all. They do it in Australia

:00:55. > :01:02.with different states. That sounds like government intervention.

:01:03. > :01:06.Certainly not! LAUGHTER. Small-business. I can tell you Scott

:01:07. > :01:07.Mann has completed the London Marathon. We must

:01:08. > :01:16.on issues like the NHS. Run out of time. Andrew, back to you.

:01:17. > :01:22.Now, Ukip have made their first significant policy announcement

:01:23. > :01:27.of the election campaign today with a call for a ban on wearing

:01:28. > :01:34.But is it a policy that will meet with the approval of the man

:01:35. > :01:35.who bankrolled the party's last general election campaign?

:01:36. > :01:43.Hello, Andrew. Let me see if I can clarify some things, are you a

:01:44. > :01:49.member of Ukip? I a patron of Ukip so I don't stop being a member. So

:01:50. > :01:53.you are still a member? I am, apparently for life. Are you still

:01:54. > :02:00.hoping to bankroll Ukip? Not at the moment. Why is that? The internal

:02:01. > :02:05.problems we have had in Ukip have been aired, and a lot needs to

:02:06. > :02:09.happen in the party in terms of professionalising it and I think it

:02:10. > :02:14.is ill-prepared for this general election. Are you going to run in

:02:15. > :02:21.Clacton? I will be if selected. For Ukip? Yes. Have you been to Clacton?

:02:22. > :02:25.I've been with Nigel Mansell on the campaign. You will run for a

:02:26. > :02:31.constituency you've only been in once? Yes, why does that surprise

:02:32. > :02:36.you? You know nothing about it. I've just recently decided to become the

:02:37. > :02:40.candidate there. Did you know where it is? Of course I do, your piece

:02:41. > :02:44.the other night was completely wrong. I said I knew where it was

:02:45. > :02:51.but I didn't know much about it. Maybe the people of Clacton will

:02:52. > :02:57.regard you as a carpetbagger? Why? Because you have never been there.

:02:58. > :03:01.Most politicians are carpetbaggers and I will be there for the right

:03:02. > :03:06.reasons. I thought it was because of your visceral hatred of Douglas

:03:07. > :03:10.Carswell. He only lasted 24 hours after I announced my candidacy so we

:03:11. > :03:13.will see what happens. The main thing I am going to Clacton on

:03:14. > :03:16.Monday to meet the Ukip councillors, see what the issues are and see if

:03:17. > :03:23.they want me as a candidate. They may not want me. Who do you think

:03:24. > :03:29.you will be up against? The potential Conservative candidate.

:03:30. > :03:34.Who in Ukip? I don't suppose anyone in Ukip will stand against me, I

:03:35. > :03:41.wouldn't have thought. Really? I would have thought. Money talks! Why

:03:42. > :03:45.do you say that? You talked about having a pirate radio station to

:03:46. > :03:47.blast into Clacton so it is not covered by the election rules.

:03:48. > :03:53.You've been talking about financing a sort of right-wing Momentum

:03:54. > :03:58.movement. I just wonder, has politics now just become a

:03:59. > :04:01.Richmond's hobby? From my perspective the reason I'm

:04:02. > :04:04.interested in it is if you have looked at what has happened in the

:04:05. > :04:08.country, it's clear the Conservatives will have a massive

:04:09. > :04:15.majority. -- has politics become a rich man's hobby. Only putting up

:04:16. > :04:22.candidates not against Brexit MPs. Is Ukip over? I don't think so. The

:04:23. > :04:23.electoral maths is interesting because first-past-the-post

:04:24. > :04:34.effectively could help Ukip in this example. Ukip got one MP with 4

:04:35. > :04:38.million votes. What we are seeing is the total collapse of Labour. In

:04:39. > :04:41.that situation there are certain seats up north in Hartlepool and

:04:42. > :04:45.other seats like that, the total collapse of the Labour Party could

:04:46. > :04:51.help Ukip to win a few seats. Is Ukip over? It looks that way, yes.

:04:52. > :04:54.They haven't made much of a dent in Labour's vote in the north, they

:04:55. > :04:58.don't really have a defining issue anymore and all the polls we have

:04:59. > :05:03.seen published since the election was called show Ukip vote is going

:05:04. > :05:07.to the Conservatives. Is Ukip over? It always happens when the

:05:08. > :05:11.Conservative Party goes far to the right, really hard Brexit, there is

:05:12. > :05:17.no space for BMP, Ukip and all of that. Are you associating the BNP

:05:18. > :05:21.with Ukip? Or that, movements to the right of the Conservatives get eaten

:05:22. > :05:26.up one the Conservatives move as far right as Theresa May has done. I

:05:27. > :05:31.think what your enterprise shows is how it's really time to reform

:05:32. > :05:36.funding of political parties. It is disgraceful that very rich people

:05:37. > :05:39.can move in and bankroll the Brexit campaigned to the extent that they

:05:40. > :05:46.did. We need proper state funding of parties. The union is bankrolling

:05:47. > :05:53.Labour. I assume the reform would include trade unions? Indeed. Ukip

:05:54. > :05:57.has lost its talisman in Nigel Farage, it was a one-man party, I

:05:58. > :06:02.have to say, people like Tim. Having voted for Brexit its reason to be

:06:03. > :06:06.has gone. It will still take votes from Labour and the Conservatives

:06:07. > :06:10.but probably only from the don't knows. There are seats in certain

:06:11. > :06:16.places where if enough Tories back Ukip dated when. Hartlepool is an

:06:17. > :06:19.example. Were the Tories will never win. The demise of Ukip has been

:06:20. > :06:23.forecasted many times before but I don't see a Tory candidate winning

:06:24. > :06:27.in a place like Hartlepool. So we could see, and I think we will see,

:06:28. > :06:32.the total collapse of the Labour vote. We shall see. The leader of

:06:33. > :06:36.the party of which you say you are still a patron, Paul Nuttall, said

:06:37. > :06:44.he would ban the Burcea and the niqab in public, what is your view?

:06:45. > :06:49.-- the niqab and the Burcea? I'm not in agreement with that. If it is a

:06:50. > :06:53.security issue at airports or public transport it could be acceptable but

:06:54. > :06:56.I'm not in favour of curtailing people's writes. You have gone

:06:57. > :07:01.further than him, haven't you? You tweeted you wanted to ban Muslim

:07:02. > :07:04.immigration. In my view the problem we have had with the lack of

:07:05. > :07:08.integration in certain communities has come about through mass

:07:09. > :07:12.open-door immigration. If you are a must win you wouldn't be allowed in?

:07:13. > :07:17.What I said in the tweet was I think they should be a ban on

:07:18. > :07:23.immigration... You said Muslim immigration. That's what I believe.

:07:24. > :07:26.If you are a world famous doctor coming to help one of our big

:07:27. > :07:29.teaching hospitals in this country because you are a Muslim you could

:07:30. > :07:33.not get in? We have to start somewhere, there are huge problems

:07:34. > :07:38.in areas where 20% of the population don't speak the language, they

:07:39. > :07:44.haven't integrated. You should read the rest of the tweet, it is control

:07:45. > :07:47.of immigration from a 10-year ban on unskilled immigration. The first

:07:48. > :07:51.thing you said was to ban Muslim immigration, it is in black and

:07:52. > :07:55.white. I have said that, I do not dispute that. I was questioning

:07:56. > :07:59.that. There is my answer, you cannot tell somebody's will adjust freedoms

:08:00. > :08:05.but what you can do is stop adding to the problem. Doesn't that sound a

:08:06. > :08:09.bit like the BNP? It's as like BNP and like Trump. Its, we hate

:08:10. > :08:14.Muslims, fine, if that is what you are standing for, that is clear. The

:08:15. > :08:16.final word is we have had open-door mass immigration from the

:08:17. > :08:19.Conservative Party, we've had it from the Labour Party and its fine

:08:20. > :08:23.if you are in north London to say these things, if you live in Oldham

:08:24. > :08:27.and your community has been radically changed and you have a

:08:28. > :08:30.whole population not integrating in, not speaking the language, something

:08:31. > :08:35.has got to be done. We had better leave it there. Thank you for coming

:08:36. > :08:38.in. I am en route to Clacton. We will see how you get on there.

:08:39. > :08:40.Now, Lib Dem leader Tim Farron was on TV earlier today

:08:41. > :08:43.and he was asked again about an issue that he's been

:08:44. > :08:45.asked about repeatedly - his attitude to homosexuality.

:08:46. > :08:55.when they asked you whether gay sex was a sin.

:08:56. > :08:57.Come on, Robert, I've been asked this question loads

:08:58. > :09:01.few days and I have been clear, even in the House of Commons,

:09:02. > :09:11.It's possible I'm not the only person getting tired

:09:12. > :09:15.Probably, but then why don't you just close it down?

:09:16. > :09:27.Toby Young, why does he get into such a mess over this? I mean, he is

:09:28. > :09:31.leader of the Liberal Democrats. Its 2017. I guess the reason he keeps

:09:32. > :09:35.refusing to answer that question is because what the implication is that

:09:36. > :09:42.he does think that homosexual acts are sinful, and he cannot bring

:09:43. > :09:45.himself not to say that, or to say what Robert Peston and others want

:09:46. > :09:50.him to say because he is an evangelical Christian who converted

:09:51. > :09:52.at the age of 20, 21, and clearly he really struggles with this issue and

:09:53. > :09:57.I think it will be really difficult for the Lib Dems to promote, or even

:09:58. > :10:00.Lib Dem candidates like Vince Cable, to promote the idea of the

:10:01. > :10:04.Progressive Alliance even though Tim has ruled it out, if he is not

:10:05. > :10:13.prepared to say I don't think homosexual acts are sinful. What is

:10:14. > :10:16.your view? It is disastrous if that is what he really thinks but Preston

:10:17. > :10:18.did not push the hard. I'm not sure he understood the difference about

:10:19. > :10:21.the question between gay sex and being gay. I think he just thought

:10:22. > :10:25.he was going on saying I'm not anti-gay. He needs to command

:10:26. > :10:29.immediately and clarify it. If you are right and he does actually think

:10:30. > :10:33.it is a sin he is in real trouble. There is a slight parallel with what

:10:34. > :10:37.police said before about Jeremy Corbyn, how his unilateral nuclear

:10:38. > :10:42.policy would appeal to the hard core of the left. The problem for Tim

:10:43. > :10:47.Farron with what he is saying here, while he is an evangelical

:10:48. > :10:54.Christian, this will not appeal to traditional Liberal Democrats. An

:10:55. > :10:59.LGBT community member cannot possibly vote for an MP who believes

:11:00. > :11:02.that a sexual act between homosexuals is sinful. He has not

:11:03. > :11:06.made that clear. Of course, he wants to stop Brexit as well so he is

:11:07. > :11:09.neither liberal nor democratic. He will have seven weeks to make it

:11:10. > :11:14.clear because I am sure he will be asked again. We have the chairman of

:11:15. > :11:18.the Conservative Party on earlier, Polly. An important figure for the

:11:19. > :11:23.Tory campaign. What did you make of what he said? I don't think he will

:11:24. > :11:26.have him on very often, he didn't do brilliantly. I think they will bring

:11:27. > :11:31.back chemical Ali, Michael Fallon, he can say anything with a straight

:11:32. > :11:36.face, he can say black is white. Michael Fallon, chemical Ali? Why do

:11:37. > :11:42.you say that? He can absolutely say black is white. For instance if you

:11:43. > :11:49.look back at what he said, you challenged him about the energy

:11:50. > :11:54.policy, when Ed Miliband came out with it, he said any kind of freeze

:11:55. > :11:58.would stop investment, the lights will go out. You have him on, he

:11:59. > :12:04.will say the exact opposite. He is magic at that. But I don't think

:12:05. > :12:11.your guy today was up to the job. If Michael Fallon was chemical Ali, or

:12:12. > :12:17.we should say chemical Fally, Patrick was more like comical Ali.

:12:18. > :12:21.The whole Iraq war is rushing back at me. He is the warm up comedian,

:12:22. > :12:26.there is another six weeks to go, just getting things started. What

:12:27. > :12:30.did you think? I don't think he was too bad, it was difficult for him to

:12:31. > :12:34.say exactly what was in the 2050 manifesto is going to be replicated

:12:35. > :12:37.in the Conservatives' manifesto during this general election, he

:12:38. > :12:40.doesn't want to be seen rowing back on stuff but on the other hand I

:12:41. > :12:44.don't think he can conceal the fact they will be far fewer commitments

:12:45. > :12:48.in this Conservative manifesto than in the last one, as you and I know,

:12:49. > :12:56.it was full of rash promises last time because they thought they would

:12:57. > :12:59.have to trade a lot of them away in the negotiations with the Liberal

:13:00. > :13:01.Democrats to form a second coalition so they are saddled with policies

:13:02. > :13:03.they don't particularly want to be hemmed in by. The forthcoming

:13:04. > :13:06.Conservative manifesto will be much lighter and shorter with fewer

:13:07. > :13:10.commitments. Different? Some stuff jumped from the 2050 manifesto? I

:13:11. > :13:13.think so but we will see a commitment to run schools to

:13:14. > :13:16.overcome that hurdle in the next parliament and I don't think, in

:13:17. > :13:20.spite of what you think, Polly, that it will be a hard tack to the right.

:13:21. > :13:25.I think if anything the mood music of the Conservative manifesto will

:13:26. > :13:29.be a centrist inclusive one. The mood music will be because the

:13:30. > :13:32.specifics would be there. She is good at saying governing for

:13:33. > :13:37.everybody and the many and not the few but when you look at the hard

:13:38. > :13:40.facts of what her and Hammond's budget looks like, you look at her

:13:41. > :13:48.hard Brexit, it's a very different story. Or that, the music has

:13:49. > :13:55.stopped for this week! Thank you. I will be back next week at the normal

:13:56. > :13:59.time of 11am on Sunday morning. On BBC One The Daily Politics is back

:14:00. > :14:03.at midday tomorrow and we will be on every day next week on BBC Two.

:14:04. > :14:33.Remember, if it's Sunday, it is The Sunday Politics.

:14:34. > :14:35.There'll be a couple of hours of just fantastic music, really,

:14:36. > :14:38.all the Ella classics, as well as some very special guests,

:14:39. > :14:41.we have Mica Paris, Imelda May, Dame Cleo Laine

:14:42. > :14:47.'There's a side to Rory that the public doesn't see.

:14:48. > :14:50.'Rory has suspected for some time that he may have ADHD.

:14:51. > :15:00.Here we have the first hydrogen bomb that went into service with