:00:38. > :00:40.It's Sunday morning and this is the Sunday Politics.
:00:41. > :00:43.The local election results made grim reading for Labour.
:00:44. > :00:48.With just a month to go until the general election,
:00:49. > :00:51.will promising to rule out tax rises for all but the well off help
:00:52. > :00:56.The Conservatives have their own announcement on mental health,
:00:57. > :00:59.as they strain every sinew to insist they don't think they've got
:01:00. > :01:06.But is there still really all to play for?
:01:07. > :01:10.And tonight we will find out who is the next
:01:11. > :01:14.President of France - Emmanuel Macron or Marine Le Pen -
:01:15. > :01:18.In the South West: ended with a hack attack
:01:19. > :01:21.We may be in a general election campaign, but that's not
:01:22. > :01:23.stopping a Tory revolt against the Government's plan
:01:24. > :01:31.potential impact in marginals next month. If Ukip support continues to
:01:32. > :01:38.evaporate... And joining me for all of that,
:01:39. > :01:41.three journalists ready to analyse the week's politics
:01:42. > :01:44.with all the forensic focus of Diane Abbott
:01:45. > :01:48.preparing for an interview, and all the relaxed,
:01:49. > :01:50.slogan-free banter of Theresa May It's Janan Ganesh, Isabel Oakeshott
:01:51. > :01:56.and Steve Richards. So, the Conservatives are promising,
:01:57. > :02:02.if re-elected, to change mental health laws in England and Wales
:02:03. > :02:05.to tackle discrimination, and they're promising 10,000 more
:02:06. > :02:12.staff working in NHS mental health treatment in England by 2020 -
:02:13. > :02:14.although how that's to be Here's Health Secretary
:02:15. > :02:17.Jeremy Hunt speaking There is a lot of new
:02:18. > :02:24.money going into it. In January, we said we were going
:02:25. > :02:28.to put an extra ?1 billion Does this come from other parts
:02:29. > :02:31.of the NHS, or is it No, it is new money
:02:32. > :02:35.going into the NHS It's not just of course money,
:02:36. > :02:42.it's having the people who deliver these jobs,
:02:43. > :02:44.which is why we need Well, we're joined now from Norwich
:02:45. > :02:49.by the Liberal Democrat health This weekend, they've launched
:02:50. > :02:52.their own health announcement, promising a 1% rise on every income
:02:53. > :03:04.tax band to fund the NHS. Do you welcome the Conservatives
:03:05. > :03:09.putting mental health onto the campaign agenda in the way that they
:03:10. > :03:13.have? I welcome it being on the campaign agenda but I do fear that
:03:14. > :03:19.the announcement is built on thin air. You raised the issue at the
:03:20. > :03:22.start about the 10,000 extra staff, and questions surrounding how it
:03:23. > :03:27.would be paid for. There is no additional money on what they have
:03:28. > :03:34.already announced for the NHS. We know it falls massively short on the
:03:35. > :03:38.expectation of the funding gap which, by 2020, is likely to be
:03:39. > :03:42.about 30 billion. That is not disputed now. Anyone outside of the
:03:43. > :03:46.government, wherever you are on the political spectrum, knows the money
:03:47. > :03:55.going in is simply not enough. So, rather like the claim that they
:03:56. > :04:00.would add 5000 GPs to the workforce by 2020, that is not on target.
:04:01. > :04:05.Latest figures show a fall in the number of GPs. They make these
:04:06. > :04:09.claims, but I'm afraid they are without substance, unless they are
:04:10. > :04:14.prepared to put money behind it. Your party's solution to the money
:04:15. > :04:25.problem is to put a 1% percentage point on all of the bands of income
:04:26. > :04:32.tax to raise more money 20-45. Is that unfair? Most pensioners who
:04:33. > :04:37.consume 40% of NHS spending, but over 65s only pay about 20% of
:04:38. > :04:42.income tax. Are you penalising the younger generations for the health
:04:43. > :04:46.care of an older generation? It is the first step in what we are
:04:47. > :04:51.describing as a 5-point recovery plan for the NHS and care system.
:04:52. > :04:57.So, for what is available to us now, it seems to be the fairest way of
:04:58. > :05:01.bringing in extra resources, income tax is progressive, and is based on
:05:02. > :05:06.your ability to pay for your average British worker. It would be ?3 per
:05:07. > :05:11.week which is the cost of less than two cups of coffee per week. In the
:05:12. > :05:15.longer run, we say that by the end of the next Parliament, we would be
:05:16. > :05:22.able to introduce a dedicated NHS and care tax. Based, probably,
:05:23. > :05:28.around a reformed national insurance system, so it becomes a dedicated
:05:29. > :05:31.NHS and care tax. Interestingly, the former permanent secretary of the
:05:32. > :05:36.Treasury, Nick MacPherson, said clearly that this idea merits
:05:37. > :05:43.further consideration which is the first time anyone for the Treasury
:05:44. > :05:47.has bought into the idea of this. Let me ask you this. You say it is a
:05:48. > :05:51.small amount of tax that people on average incomes will have to pay
:05:52. > :05:57.extra. We are talking about people who have seen no real increases to
:05:58. > :06:02.their income since 2007. They have been struggling to stand still in
:06:03. > :06:06.terms of their own pay, but you are going to add to their tax, and as I
:06:07. > :06:11.said earlier, most of the health care money will then go to
:06:12. > :06:16.pensioners whose incomes have risen by 15%. I'm interested in the
:06:17. > :06:22.fairness of this redistribution? Bearing in mind first of all,
:06:23. > :06:27.Andrew, that the raising of the tax threshold that the Liberal Democrats
:06:28. > :06:32.pushed through in the coalition increased the effective pay in your
:06:33. > :06:38.pocket for basic rate taxpayers by about ?1000. We are talking about a
:06:39. > :06:41.tiny fraction of that. I suppose that you do have to ask, all of us
:06:42. > :06:46.in this country need to ask ourselves this question... Are we
:06:47. > :06:51.prepared to pay, in terms of the average worker, about ?3 extra per
:06:52. > :06:56.week to give us a guarantee that when our loved ones need that care,
:06:57. > :07:01.in their hour of need, perhaps suspected cancer, that care will be
:07:02. > :07:07.available for them? I have heard two cases recently brought my attention.
:07:08. > :07:10.An elderly couple, the wife has a very bad hip. They could not allow
:07:11. > :07:15.the weight to continue. She was told that she would need to wait 26
:07:16. > :07:19.weeks, she was in acute pain. They then deduct paying ?20,000 for
:07:20. > :07:24.private treatment to circumvent waiting time. They hated doing it,
:07:25. > :07:29.because they did not want to jump the queue. But that is what is
:07:30. > :07:32.increasingly happening. Sorry to interrupt, Norman Lamb comedy make
:07:33. > :07:39.very good points but we are short on time today. One final question, it
:07:40. > :07:43.looks like you might have the chance to do any of this, I'm told the best
:07:44. > :07:49.you can hope to do internally is to double the number of seats you have,
:07:50. > :07:54.which would only take you to 18. Do you think that promising to raise
:07:55. > :07:58.people's income tax, even those on average earnings, is a vote winner?
:07:59. > :08:02.I think the people in this country are crying out for politicians to be
:08:03. > :08:09.straight and tenet as it is. At the moment we heading towards a
:08:10. > :08:14.Conservative landslide... -- tell it as it is. But do we want a 1-party
:08:15. > :08:19.state? We are electing a government not only to deal with the crucial
:08:20. > :08:23.Brexit negotiations, but oversee the stewardship of the NHS and funding
:08:24. > :08:26.of our schools, all of these critical issues. We need an
:08:27. > :08:31.effective opposition and with the Labour Party having taken itself off
:08:32. > :08:33.stage, the Liberal Democrats need to provide an effective opposition.
:08:34. > :08:38.Norman Lamb, thank you for joining us this morning. Thank you.
:08:39. > :08:41.Labour and Tories are anxious to stress the general election
:08:42. > :08:43.result is not a foregone conclusion, whatever the polls say.
:08:44. > :08:48.Order you just heard Norman Lamb say there that he thought the
:08:49. > :08:51.Conservatives were heading for a landslide...
:08:52. > :08:53.But did Thursday's dramatic set of local election results
:08:54. > :08:56.in England, Scotland and Wales give us a better idea of how the country
:08:57. > :09:00.Here's Emma Vardy with a behind-the-scenes look at how
:09:01. > :09:03.Good morning, it's seven o'clock on Friday, May 5th...
:09:04. > :09:09.The dawn of another results day. Anticipation hung in the air.
:09:10. > :09:13.Early results from the local elections in England suggest
:09:14. > :09:16.there's been a substantial swing from Labour to the Conservatives.
:09:17. > :09:20.While the pros did their thing, I needed breakfast.
:09:21. > :09:23.Don't tell anyone, but I'm going to pinch a sausage.
:09:24. > :09:25.The overnight counts had delivered successes for the Tories.
:09:26. > :09:26.But with most councils only getting started,
:09:27. > :09:32.there was plenty of action still to come.
:09:33. > :09:34.It's not quite the night of Labour's nightmares.
:09:35. > :09:36.There's enough mixed news in Wales, for example -
:09:37. > :09:39.looks like they're about to hold Cardiff - that they'll try and put
:09:40. > :09:46.But in really simple terms, four weeks from a general election,
:09:47. > :09:49.the Tories are going forward and Labour are going backwards.
:09:50. > :09:54.How does it compare being in here to doing the telly?
:09:55. > :10:00.Huw, how do you prepare yourself for a long day of results, then?
:10:01. > :10:05.We're not even on air yet, as you can see, and already
:10:06. > :10:09.in Tory HQ this morning, there's a kind of, "Oh,
:10:10. > :10:12.I'm scared this will make people think the election's just
:10:13. > :10:15.I think leave it like that - perfect.
:10:16. > :10:18.I want the Laura look. This is really good, isn't it?
:10:19. > :10:22.Usually, we're in here for the Daily Politics.
:10:23. > :10:27.But it's been transformed for the Election Results programme.
:10:28. > :10:39.But hours went by without Ukip winning a single seat.
:10:40. > :10:45.The joke going around Lincolnshire County Council today
:10:46. > :10:47.from the Conservatives is that the Tories have eaten
:10:48. > :10:51.We will rebrand and come back strong.
:10:52. > :10:56.Morale, I think, is inevitably going to take a bit of a tumble.
:10:57. > :10:59.Particularly if Theresa May starts backsliding on Brexit.
:11:00. > :11:02.And then I think we will be totally reinvigorated.
:11:03. > :11:05.There are a lot of good people in Ukip and I wouldn't
:11:06. > :11:08.want to say anything unkind, but we all know it's over.
:11:09. > :11:12.Ukip press officer. Difficult job.
:11:13. > :11:16.Ukip weren't the only ones putting a brave face on it.
:11:17. > :11:19.Labour were experiencing their own disaster day too,
:11:20. > :11:23.losing hundreds of seats and seven councils.
:11:24. > :11:27.If the result is what these results appear to indicate,
:11:28. > :11:32.Can we have a quick word for the Sunday Politics?
:11:33. > :11:40.A quick question for Sunday Politics - how are you feeling?
:11:41. > :11:44.Downhearted or fired up for June? Fired up, absolutely fired up.
:11:45. > :11:47.He's fired up. We're going to go out there...
:11:48. > :11:49.We cannot go on with another five years of this.
:11:50. > :11:52.How's it been for you today? Tiring.
:11:53. > :11:55.It always is, but I love elections, I really enjoy them.
:11:56. > :11:59.Yes, you know, obviously we're disappointed at some of the results,
:12:00. > :12:01.it's been a mixed bag, but some opinion polls
:12:02. > :12:06.and commentators predicted we'd be wiped out - we haven't.
:12:07. > :12:09.As for the Lib Dems, not the resurgence they hoped for,
:12:10. > :12:17.After a dead heat in Northumberland, the control of a whole council came
:12:18. > :12:26.The section of England in which we had elections yesterday
:12:27. > :12:30.was the section of England that was most likely to vote Leave.
:12:31. > :12:33.When you go to sleep at night, do you just have election results
:12:34. > :12:39.The answer is if that's still happening, I don't get to sleep.
:12:40. > :12:41.There we go. Maybe practice some yoga...
:12:42. > :12:45.Thank you very much but I have one here.
:12:46. > :12:49.With the introduction of six regional mayors,
:12:50. > :12:52.Labour's Andy Burnham became Mr Manchester.
:12:53. > :12:55.But by the time Corbyn came to celebrate, the new mayor
:12:56. > :13:01.We want you to stay for a second because I've got some
:13:02. > :13:04.I used to present news, as you probably know.
:13:05. > :13:06.I used to present BBC Breakfast in the morning.
:13:07. > :13:08.The SNP had notable successes, ending 40 years of Labour
:13:09. > :13:15.What did you prefer - presenting or politics?
:13:16. > :13:21.And it certainly had been a hard day at the office for some.
:13:22. > :13:26.Ukip's foothold in local government was all but wiped out,
:13:27. > :13:28.leaving the Conservatives with their best local
:13:29. > :13:33.So another election results day draws to a close.
:13:34. > :13:36.But don't worry, we'll be doing it all again in five weeks' time.
:13:37. > :13:39.For now, though, that's your lot. Off you go.
:13:40. > :13:51.Now let's look at some of Thursday's results in a little more detail,
:13:52. > :13:53.and what they might mean for the wider fortunes
:13:54. > :14:05.In England, there were elections for 34 councils.
:14:06. > :14:07.The Conservatives took control of ten of them,
:14:08. > :14:09.gaining over 300 seats, while Labour sustained
:14:10. > :14:14.While the Lib Dems lost 28 seats, Ukip came close to extinction,
:14:15. > :14:20.and can now boast of only one councillor in the whole of England.
:14:21. > :14:22.In Scotland, the big story was Labour losing
:14:23. > :14:24.a third of their seats, and control of three councils -
:14:25. > :14:27.while the Tories more than doubled their number of councillors.
:14:28. > :14:31.In Wales, both the Conservatives and Plaid Cymru made gains,
:14:32. > :14:37.There was some encouraging news for Jeremy Corbyn's party
:14:38. > :14:39.after Liverpool and Manchester both elected Labour mayors,
:14:40. > :14:46.although the Tories narrowly won the West Midlands mayoral race.
:14:47. > :14:49.We're joined now by who else but elections expert John Curtice.
:14:50. > :14:53.You saw him in Emma's film, he's now back in Glasgow.
:14:54. > :15:06.In broad terms, what do these local election results tell us about the
:15:07. > :15:11.general election result? First we have to remember what Theresa May
:15:12. > :15:14.wants to achieve in the general election is a landslide, and winning
:15:15. > :15:18.a landslide means you have to win big in terms of votes. The local
:15:19. > :15:22.election results certainly suggest Theresa May is well on course to win
:15:23. > :15:26.the general election, at least with four weeks to go, and of course
:15:27. > :15:30.people could change their minds. We all agree the Conservatives were
:15:31. > :15:35.double-digit figures ahead of Labour in these elections. However, whereas
:15:36. > :15:42.the opinion polls on average at the moment suggest there is a 17 point
:15:43. > :15:44.Conservative lead, and that definitely would deliver a
:15:45. > :15:46.landslide, it seems the local election figures, at least in
:15:47. > :15:51.England, are pointing to something close to an 11 point Conservative
:15:52. > :15:57.lead. That increase would not necessarily deliver a landslide that
:15:58. > :16:01.she wants. The truth is, the next four weeks are probably not about
:16:02. > :16:05.who wins this election unless something dramatic changes, but
:16:06. > :16:08.there is still a battle as to whether or not Theresa May achieves
:16:09. > :16:13.her objective of winning a landslide. She has to win big. The
:16:14. > :16:17.local elections as she is not sure to be there, and therefore she is
:16:18. > :16:21.going to have to campaign hard. Equally, while Labour did have most
:16:22. > :16:26.prospect of winning, they still at least at the goal of trying to keep
:16:27. > :16:30.the conservative majority relatively low, and therefore the Parliamentary
:16:31. > :16:34.Labour Party are alive and kicking. Interesting that the local election
:16:35. > :16:38.results don't produce a landslide if replicated on June 8th, but when I
:16:39. > :16:44.looked at when local elections had taken place a month before the
:16:45. > :16:49.general election, it was in 1983 and 1987. The Tories did well in both
:16:50. > :16:52.local elections in these years, but come the general election, they
:16:53. > :16:57.added five points to their share of the vote. No reason it should happen
:16:58. > :17:01.again, but if it did, that would take them into landslide territory.
:17:02. > :17:04.Absolutely right, if they do five points better than the local
:17:05. > :17:11.elections, they are in landslide territory. We have to remember, in
:17:12. > :17:15.1983, the Labour Party ran an inept campaign and their support ballet.
:17:16. > :17:22.In 1987, David Owen and David Steele could not keep to the same lines. --
:17:23. > :17:25.their support fell away. That underlines how well the opposition
:17:26. > :17:28.campaign in the next four weeks does potentially matter in terms of
:17:29. > :17:33.Theresa May's ability to achieve their objective. It is worth
:17:34. > :17:37.noticing in the opinion polls, two things have happened, first, Ukip
:17:38. > :17:41.voters, a significant slice going to the Conservatives, which helped to
:17:42. > :17:44.increase the Conservative leader in the bowels. But in the last week,
:17:45. > :17:50.the Labour vote seems to have recovered. -- in the polls. So the
:17:51. > :17:56.party is not that far short of what Ed Miliband got in 2015, so the
:17:57. > :18:00.Conservative leader is back down to 16 or 17, as we started. So we
:18:01. > :18:05.should not necessarily presume Labour are going to go backwards in
:18:06. > :18:10.the way they did in 1983. I want to finish by asking if there are deeper
:18:11. > :18:13.forces at work? Whether the referendum in this country is
:18:14. > :18:17.producing a realignment in British politics. The Scottish referendum
:18:18. > :18:22.has produced a kind of realignment in Scotland. And in a different way,
:18:23. > :18:29.the Brexit referendum has produced a realignment in England and Wales. Do
:18:30. > :18:33.you agree? You are quite right. Referendums are potentially
:18:34. > :18:36.disruptive in Scotland, they helped to ensure the constitutional
:18:37. > :18:41.question became the central issue, and the 45% who voted yes our been
:18:42. > :18:44.faithful to the SNP since. Although the SNP put in a relatively
:18:45. > :18:50.disappointing performance in Scotland on Thursday. Equally, south
:18:51. > :18:53.of the border, on the leave side, in the past 12 months and particularly
:18:54. > :18:58.the last few weeks, the Conservatives have corralled the
:18:59. > :19:02.leave vote, about two thirds of those who voted leave now say they
:19:03. > :19:07.will vote Conservative. Last summer, the figure was only 50%. On the
:19:08. > :19:17.remain side, the vote is still fragmented. The reason why Theresa
:19:18. > :19:21.May is in the strong position she is is not simply because the leave vote
:19:22. > :19:29.has been realigned, but the remain vote has not. Thank you for joining
:19:30. > :19:33.us. You can go through polls and wonder who is up and down, but I
:19:34. > :19:38.wonder whether the Scottish and Brexit referendums have produced
:19:39. > :19:45.fundamental changes. In Scotland, the real division now is between the
:19:46. > :19:49.centre-left Nationalist party and the centre-right Unionist party.
:19:50. > :19:54.That has had the consequence of squeezing out Labour in the
:19:55. > :19:59.argument, never mind the Greens and the Lib Dems. In London, England,
:20:00. > :20:04.Wales, the Brexit referendum seems to have produced a realignment of
:20:05. > :20:13.the right to the Tories' advantage, and some trouble for the Labour blue
:20:14. > :20:20.vote -- blue-collar vote. It works for the pro Brexit end of the
:20:21. > :20:24.spectrum but not the other half. In the last century, we had people like
:20:25. > :20:27.Roy Jenkins dreaming of and writing about the realignment of British
:20:28. > :20:30.politics as though it could be consciously engineered, and in fact
:20:31. > :20:36.what made it happen was just the calling of a referendum. It's not
:20:37. > :20:39.something you can put about as a politician, it flows from below,
:20:40. > :20:44.when the public begin to think of politics in terms of single issues,
:20:45. > :20:48.dominant issues, such as leaving the European Union. Rather than a broad
:20:49. > :20:54.spectrum designed by a political class. I wonder whether now Remain
:20:55. > :20:58.have it in them to coalesce behind a single party. It doesn't look like
:20:59. > :21:01.they can do it behind Labour. The Liberal Democrats are frankly too
:21:02. > :21:06.small in Parliament to constitute that kind of force. The closest
:21:07. > :21:10.thing to a powerful Remain party is the SNP which by definition has
:21:11. > :21:17.limited appeal south of the border. It is hard. The realignment. We
:21:18. > :21:20.don't know if it is permanent or how dramatic it will be, but there is
:21:21. > :21:25.some kind of realignment going on. At the moment, it seems to be a
:21:26. > :21:30.realignment that by and large is to the benefit of the Conservatives.
:21:31. > :21:33.Without a doubt, and that can be directly attributed to the
:21:34. > :21:36.disappearance of Ukip from the political landscape. I have been
:21:37. > :21:40.saying since the referendum that I thought Ukip was finished. They
:21:41. > :21:45.still seem to be staggering on under the illusion... Some people may have
:21:46. > :21:49.picked up on Nigel Farage this morning saying that Ukip still had a
:21:50. > :21:53.strong role to play until Brexit actually happens. But I think it's
:21:54. > :21:57.very, very hard to convince the voters of that, because they feel
:21:58. > :22:00.that, with the result of the referendum, that was Ukip's job
:22:01. > :22:05.done. And those votes are not going to delay the party -- to the Labour
:22:06. > :22:11.Party because of the flaws with Jeremy Corbyn's leadership, they are
:22:12. > :22:15.shifting to the Tories. I agree. The key issue was the referendum. It has
:22:16. > :22:20.produced a fundamental change that few predicted at the time it was
:22:21. > :22:24.called. Most fundamental of all, it has brought about a unity in the
:22:25. > :22:27.Conservative Party. With some exceptions, but they are now off
:22:28. > :22:33.editing the Evening Standard and other things! This is now a party
:22:34. > :22:39.united around Brexit. Since 1992, the Tories have been split over
:22:40. > :22:42.Europe, at times fatally so. The referendum, in ways that David
:22:43. > :22:47.Cameron did not anticipate, has brought about a united front for
:22:48. > :22:51.this election. In a way, this is a sequel to the referendum, because
:22:52. > :22:54.it's about Brexit but we still don't know what form Brexit is going to
:22:55. > :23:00.take. By calling it early, Theresa May has in effect got another go at
:23:01. > :23:04.a kind of Brexit referendum without knowing what Brexit is, with a
:23:05. > :23:06.united Tory party behind her. We shall see if it is a blip or a
:23:07. > :23:10.long-term trend in British politics. Now let's turn to Labour's big
:23:11. > :23:12.campaign announcement today, and that was the promise of no
:23:13. > :23:15.income tax rise for those earning less than ?80,000 -
:23:16. > :23:18.which of course means those earning more than that could
:23:19. > :23:19.face an increase. Here's Shadow Chancellor John
:23:20. > :23:29.McDonell on the BBC earlier. What we are saying today, anyone
:23:30. > :23:34.earning below ?80,000, we will guarantee you will not have an
:23:35. > :23:37.increase in income tax, VAT or national insurance contributions.
:23:38. > :23:41.For those above 80,000, we are asking them to pay a modest bit more
:23:42. > :23:46.to fund our public services. A modest bit. You will see it will be
:23:47. > :23:52.a modest increase. Talking about modest increases, so we can have a
:23:53. > :23:55.society which we believe everyone shares the benefits of.
:23:56. > :24:00.We're joined now by Shadow Justice Secretary Richard Burgon, in Leeds.
:24:01. > :24:07.Mr McDonnell stressed that for those earning over 80,000, they would be
:24:08. > :24:11.paying more but it would be modest. He used the word modest 45 times.
:24:12. > :24:18.But there is only 1.2 million of them. -- 4-5 times. So that would
:24:19. > :24:24.not raise much money. This is about the key part of this tax policy for
:24:25. > :24:28.the many, not the few. We are saying that low earners and middle earners
:24:29. > :24:32.won't be paying more tax under a Labour government, which is not a
:24:33. > :24:36.policy the Conservatives have committed to yet. As John McDonnell
:24:37. > :24:43.also said in his interview earlier, if there is a tax rise on the top 5%
:24:44. > :24:48.of earners, earning over ?80,000, it would be a modest rise. I am trying
:24:49. > :24:55.to work out what that would mean in terms of money. If it is too modest,
:24:56. > :24:57.you don't raise much. What will happen is the Labour Party's
:24:58. > :25:03.manifesto, published in the next couple of weeks, wilfully set out
:25:04. > :25:12.and cost it. I can't make an announcement now. -- will fully set
:25:13. > :25:15.out and cost it. Moving on to the local elections, Mr Corbyn says he
:25:16. > :25:21.is closing the gap with the Tories. What evidence is there? John Curtis
:25:22. > :25:27.just said there was an 11% gap in the results, Labour 11% behind. The
:25:28. > :25:32.polls before that suggested Labour were anything up to 20% behind. Was
:25:33. > :25:38.it a great day for Labour? Certainly not. Is there a lot to do between
:25:39. > :25:43.now and June? Sure, but we are relishing every moment of that.
:25:44. > :25:47.Comparing equivalent elections in 2013, the Tories increased their
:25:48. > :25:57.share of the vote by 13%. You lost 2%. That's a net of 15%. In what way
:25:58. > :26:04.is that closing the gap? We have gone down to 11 points behind. Am I
:26:05. > :26:08.satisfied? Certainly not. Is Labour satisfied? Certainly not. A week is
:26:09. > :26:12.a long time in politics, 4-5 weeks is even longer. The local elections
:26:13. > :26:17.are over, the general election campaign is starting, and we want to
:26:18. > :26:21.put out there the policies that will improve the lives of low and middle
:26:22. > :26:27.income earners. And also many people looking to be well off as well. You
:26:28. > :26:33.lost 133 seats in Scotland. Are you closing the gap in Scotland? The
:26:34. > :26:36.journey back for Labour in Scotland, I always thought, wouldn't be an
:26:37. > :26:41.easy one. Since the council election results and Scotland that we are
:26:42. > :26:45.comparing this to, there has been an independence referendum and the
:26:46. > :26:49.terrible results for Labour in the 2015 general election. So it is a
:26:50. > :26:53.challenge, but one hundreds of thousands of Labour members are
:26:54. > :26:56.determined to meet. That is why we're talking about bread and butter
:26:57. > :27:03.policies to make people's lives better. These local elections took
:27:04. > :27:10.place midtown. Normally mid-term was the worst time for a government. --
:27:11. > :27:15.took place midterm. And the best for an opposition. That is a feature of
:27:16. > :27:20.British politics. So why did you lose 382 councillors in a midterm
:27:21. > :27:25.election? As Andy Burnham said when he gave his acceptance speech after
:27:26. > :27:31.his terrific first ballot result win in Manchester, it was an evening of
:27:32. > :27:35.mixed results for Labour. Generally bad, wasn't it? Why did you lose all
:27:36. > :27:40.of these councillors midterm? It is not a welcome result for Labour, I
:27:41. > :27:44.am not going to be deluded. But what I and the Labour Party are focused
:27:45. > :27:49.on is the next four weeks. And how we are going to put across policies
:27:50. > :27:54.like free school meals for primary school children, ?10 an hour minimum
:27:55. > :28:00.wage, the pledge not to increase tax for low and middle earners, 95% of
:28:01. > :28:03.earners in this country. And saving the NHS from privatisation and
:28:04. > :28:07.funding it properly. These are just some of the policies, including by
:28:08. > :28:12.the way a boost in carers' allowance, that will make the lives
:28:13. > :28:19.of people in Britain better off. Labour are for the many, not for the
:28:20. > :28:23.few. But people like from political parties aspiring to government is to
:28:24. > :28:27.be united and to be singing from the same song sheet among the leaders.
:28:28. > :28:31.You mentioned Andy Burnham. Why did he not join Mr Corbyn when Jeremy
:28:32. > :28:37.Corbyn went to the rally in Manchester on Friday to celebrate
:28:38. > :28:40.his victory? First of all, Andy Burnham did a radio interview
:28:41. > :28:44.straight after his great victory in which he said Jeremy Corbyn helped
:28:45. > :28:51.him to win votes in that election. Why didn't he turn up? As to the
:28:52. > :28:57.reason Andy Burnham wasn't there at the meeting Jeremy was doing in
:28:58. > :29:00.Manchester, it was because, I understand, Andy was booked into
:29:01. > :29:04.celebrate his victory with his family that night. I don't begrudge
:29:05. > :29:07.him that and hopefully you don't. The leader has made the effort to
:29:08. > :29:11.travel to Manchester to celebrate one of the few victories you enjoyed
:29:12. > :29:17.on Thursday, surely you would join the leader and celebrate together?
:29:18. > :29:21.Well, I don't regard, and I am sure you don't, Andy Burnham a nice time
:29:22. > :29:27.with his family... -- I don't begrudge. He made it clear Jeremy
:29:28. > :29:35.Corbyn assisted him. I can see you are not convinced yourself. I am
:29:36. > :29:40.convinced. The outgoing Labour leader in Derbyshire lost his seat
:29:41. > :29:45.on Thursday, you lost Derbyshire, which was a surprise in itself... He
:29:46. > :29:49.said that genuine party supporters said they were not voting Labour
:29:50. > :29:56.while you have Jeremy Corbyn as leader. Are you hearing that on the
:29:57. > :30:00.doorstep too? I have been knocking on hundreds of doors this week in my
:30:01. > :30:04.constituency and elsewhere. And of course, you never get every single
:30:05. > :30:10.voter thinking the leader of any political party is the greatest
:30:11. > :30:14.thing since sliced bread. But it's only on a minority of doorsteps that
:30:15. > :30:19.people are criticising the Labour leader. Most people aren't even
:30:20. > :30:24.talking about these questions. Most people are talking about Jeremy
:30:25. > :30:30.Corbyn's policies, free primary school meals, ?10 an hour minimum
:30:31. > :30:33.wage. Also policies such as paternity pay, maternity pay and
:30:34. > :30:37.sickness pay for the self-employed, that have been hard-pressed under
:30:38. > :30:40.this government. So I don't recognise that pitch of despondency,
:30:41. > :30:46.but I understand that in different areas, in local elections,
:30:47. > :30:50.perspectives are different. That was Derbyshire. The outgoing Labour
:30:51. > :30:53.leader of Nottinghamshire County Council said there was concern on
:30:54. > :30:58.the doorstep about whether Jeremy Corbyn was the right person to lead
:30:59. > :31:03.the Labour Party, and even Rotherham, loyal to Mr Corbyn, won
:31:04. > :31:09.the mail contest in Liverpool, he said that the Labour leader was more
:31:10. > :31:13.might on the doorstep. -- the mayor contest. Does that explain some of
:31:14. > :31:17.the performance on Thursday? I am confident that in the next four
:31:18. > :31:22.weeks, when we get into coverage on television, that people will see
:31:23. > :31:26.further the kind of open leadership Jeremy provides. In contrast to
:31:27. > :31:30.Theresa May's refusal to meet ordinary people. She came to my
:31:31. > :31:34.constituency and I don't think that a single person who lives here. And
:31:35. > :31:37.also she is ducking the chance to debate with Jeremy Corbyn on TV. She
:31:38. > :31:44.should do it and let the people decide. I don't know why she won't.
:31:45. > :31:49.Finally, the Labour mantra is that you are the party of the ordinary
:31:50. > :32:02.people, why is it the case that among what advertisers call C2s, D
:32:03. > :32:08.and E', how can you on the pulse of that social group, how can you do
:32:09. > :32:12.that? Our policy is to assist, protect and improve the living
:32:13. > :32:15.standards of people in those groups and our policy is to protect the
:32:16. > :32:19.living standards of the majority... They do not seem to be convinced? We
:32:20. > :32:22.have four weeks to convince them and I believe that we will. Thank you
:32:23. > :32:24.for coming onto the programme. But the wooden spoon from Thursday's
:32:25. > :32:30.elections undoubtedly went to Ukip. Four years ago the party
:32:31. > :32:33.won its best ever local government performance,
:32:34. > :32:35.but this time its support just Ukip's share of the vote
:32:36. > :32:38.plunging by as much as 18 points, most obviously
:32:39. > :32:42.benefiting the Conservatives. So is it all over for
:32:43. > :32:44.the self-styled people's army? Well we're joined now
:32:45. > :32:46.by the party's leader in the Welsh Assembly,
:32:47. > :32:57.Neil Hamilton, he's in Cardiff. Neil Hamilton, welcome. Ukip
:32:58. > :33:01.finished local elections gaining the same number of councillors as the
:33:02. > :33:07.Rubbish Party, one. That sums up your prospects, doesn't
:33:08. > :33:13.it? Rubbish? We have been around a long time and seemed that I'd go
:33:14. > :33:17.out, go in again, we will keep calm and carry on. We are in a phoney
:33:18. > :33:21.war, negotiations on Brexit have not started but what we know from
:33:22. > :33:25.Theresa May is that in seven years, as Home Secretary and Prime
:33:26. > :33:29.Minister, she has completely failed to control immigration which was one
:33:30. > :33:35.of the great driving forces behind the Brexit result. I'm not really
:33:36. > :33:38.looking for any great success in immigration from the Tories, and a
:33:39. > :33:43.lot of people who have previously voted for Ukip will be back in our
:33:44. > :33:48.part of the field again. They don't seem to care about that at the
:33:49. > :33:54.moment, your party lost 147 council seats. You gain one. It is time to
:33:55. > :33:58.shut up shop, isn't it? You are right, the voters are not focusing
:33:59. > :34:01.on other domestic issues at the moment. They have made up their
:34:02. > :34:06.minds going into these negotiations in Brussels, Theresa May, as Prime
:34:07. > :34:11.Minister, needs as much support as she can get. I think they are wrong
:34:12. > :34:17.in this respect, it would be better to have a cohort of Ukip MPs to back
:34:18. > :34:23.her up. She was greatly helped by the intervention of Mr Juncker last
:34:24. > :34:26.week as well, the stupidity in how the European Commission has tried to
:34:27. > :34:29.bully the British government, in those circumstances the British
:34:30. > :34:35.people will react in one way going the opposite way to what the
:34:36. > :34:38.Brussels establishment one. She has been fortunate as an acute tactician
:34:39. > :34:42.in having the election now. I struggle to see the way back for
:34:43. > :34:47.your party. You aren't a threat to the Tories in the south. Ukip voters
:34:48. > :34:52.are flocking to the Tories in the south. You don't threaten Labour in
:34:53. > :34:55.the north. It is the Tories who threaten Labour now in the north.
:34:56. > :35:01.There is no room to progress, is there? The reality will be is that
:35:02. > :35:06.once we are back on the domestic agenda again, and the Brexit
:35:07. > :35:11.negotiations are concluded, we will know what the outcome is. And the
:35:12. > :35:15.focus will be on bread and butter issues. We have all sorts of
:35:16. > :35:21.policies in our programme which other parties cannot match us on.
:35:22. > :35:25.The talk is putting up taxes to help the health service, we would scrap
:35:26. > :35:27.the foreign aid budget and put another ?8 billion in the health
:35:28. > :35:33.service, no other party says that. These policies would be popular with
:35:34. > :35:38.the ordinary working person. Is Paul Nuttall to blame on the meltdown of
:35:39. > :35:41.what happened, no matter who is leader? These are cosmic forces
:35:42. > :35:45.beyond the control of any individual at the moment, it is certainly not
:35:46. > :35:51.Paul Nuttall's .com he's been in the job for six months and in half that
:35:52. > :35:56.time he was fighting a by-election -- certainly not Paul Nuttall's
:35:57. > :35:59.fault. We have two become more professional than we have been
:36:00. > :36:05.recently. It has not been a brilliant year for Ukip one way or
:36:06. > :36:08.another, as you know, but there are prospects, in future, that are very
:36:09. > :36:12.rosy. I do not believe that the Tories will deliver on other
:36:13. > :36:16.promises that they are now making. The Welsh assembly elections are not
:36:17. > :36:20.until 2021, you are a member of that, but at that point you will not
:36:21. > :36:26.have any MEPs, because we will be out on the timetable. With this
:36:27. > :36:33.current showing he will have no end', you could be Ukip's most
:36:34. > :36:41.senior elected representative. That would be a turnout for the books! --
:36:42. > :36:44.no elected MPs. The Tories are not promoting the policies that I
:36:45. > :36:50.believe them. You will see that in the Ukip manifesto when it is
:36:51. > :37:00.shortly publish... Leaders talk mainly about the male genital
:37:01. > :37:05.mutilation and is -- female and burqas. No, when the manifesto
:37:06. > :37:11.launched, we have a lot of policies, I spoke moments ago about it, but
:37:12. > :37:16.also on foreign aid. Scrapping green taxes, to cut people's electricity
:37:17. > :37:24.bills by ?300 per year on average. There are a lot of popular policies
:37:25. > :37:28.that we have. We will hear more from that in the weeks to come.
:37:29. > :37:33.Paul Nuttall said "If the price of written leaving the year is a Tory
:37:34. > :37:38.advance after taking up this patriarch course, it is a price that
:37:39. > :37:42.Ukip is prepared to pay". That sounds like a surrender statement?
:37:43. > :37:48.It is a statement of fact, the main agenda is to get out of the EU and
:37:49. > :37:54.have full Brexit. That is why Ukip came into existence 20 years ago.
:37:55. > :37:58.When it is achieved, we go back to the normal political battle lines.
:37:59. > :38:02.Niall Hamilton in Cardiff, thank you very much for joining us.
:38:03. > :38:04.It's just gone 11.35am, you're watching the Sunday Politics.
:38:05. > :38:07.We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now
:38:08. > :38:20.Hello, I'm Martyn Oates. we'll be talking about the French
:38:21. > :38:24.Coming up on the Sunday Politics here in the South West: We may be
:38:25. > :38:26.in a general election campaign, but that's not stopping a Tory
:38:27. > :38:27.revolt against their own government's plan
:38:28. > :38:36.We have every Conservative member of Parliament in Devon writing
:38:37. > :38:38.to the Prime Minister saying something has to happen
:38:39. > :38:44.And for the next 20 minutes, I'm joined by Labour Parliamentary
:38:45. > :38:45.candidate Ben Bradshaw and Conservative
:38:46. > :38:48.Welcome both of you to the programme.
:38:49. > :38:50.On Tuesday, the Prime Minister was campaigning
:38:51. > :38:54.I asked her whether a Conservative Government would replace
:38:55. > :38:57.the hundreds of millions of pounds of EU funding Cornwall would have
:38:58. > :39:05.received from 2020 on, if Britain were still a member.
:39:06. > :39:08.Well, this is a really important election, it's the most crucial
:39:09. > :39:10.election I think the country has faced in my lifetime,
:39:11. > :39:13.because it is about how we take this country through Brexit and beyond,
:39:14. > :39:15.how we ensure that we are building a stronger...
:39:16. > :39:20.Yes, I'm going to come onto the funding issue.
:39:21. > :39:23.But it is not just about the issue of funding, it is about a modern
:39:24. > :39:26.industrial strategy, it is about ensuring
:39:27. > :39:28.we are promoting and encouraging the growth of the economy
:39:29. > :39:38.across the whole of the United Kingdom, including Cornwall.
:39:39. > :39:52.As somebody said on twitter, that is in no then. We have guaranteed the
:39:53. > :39:56.European funding... And tell 2020? Yes. The EU haven't guaranteed that
:39:57. > :40:00.it continues beyond that date. If you look at the state of the Cornish
:40:01. > :40:09.economy, and economic miracle aside... We are than a third tranche
:40:10. > :40:15.of EU funding, and I am actually really angry about people talking
:40:16. > :40:19.Cornwall down. Every sect to the Government's industrial strategy, we
:40:20. > :40:24.will see the economy grow, and we can actually stand up for ourselves
:40:25. > :40:30.in Carmel, rather than expecting hand-outs are the time. We will be
:40:31. > :40:34.free of the shackles of the European union rules, money will be able to
:40:35. > :40:43.be spent in Carmel that will actually enable the economy to come
:40:44. > :40:49.up to the rest of the country. The Government presumably has the option
:40:50. > :40:57.to say, we don't need Brussels to send money to Connell, we will do
:40:58. > :41:01.it. I noticed the Prime Minister avoided your question. You weren't
:41:02. > :41:06.one of their journalist locked out of the room and what was a calamity
:41:07. > :41:12.is's calamitous visit for this by Minister. We know what the Tories
:41:13. > :41:18.will face. With Labour invested the equivalent sum of money? The Tories
:41:19. > :41:25.are heading for a landslide. If anybody in this country cares about
:41:26. > :41:26.having decent book's decent opposition. They have to do whatever
:41:27. > :41:33.they can. So that is in no as well. Thursday's local election results
:41:34. > :41:35.made comforting reading for the Conservatives in all four
:41:36. > :41:37.south west counties. The Tories retained control
:41:38. > :41:39.of Dorset, Somerset and Devon county councils and replaced the Lib Dems
:41:40. > :41:42.as the biggest party In a moment we'll be joined
:41:43. > :41:46.by a Lib Dem to discuss what all this means for the General Election,
:41:47. > :41:49.but first here's Ben Woolvin On his way up, but tinged
:41:50. > :41:53.with disappointment. I just been told I'm
:41:54. > :41:55.second, not first. The Conservative leader
:41:56. > :41:57.of Devon County Council, miffed he didn't top
:41:58. > :42:01.the winners' table. But his 2000-odd votes were more
:42:02. > :42:05.than enough to secure his seat, and he sits supreme
:42:06. > :42:10.with an increased majority. John Hart's personal victory
:42:11. > :42:14.the envy of his fellow Conservative council leaders
:42:15. > :42:18.in Dorset and Somerset... I ran a positive county
:42:19. > :42:21.council campaign. ..who both lost their
:42:22. > :42:25.seats to the Lib Dems. I leave a positive
:42:26. > :42:31.legacy for Somerset. But elsewhere in Somerset
:42:32. > :42:33.and Dorset, more gains for the Tories, leaving the party
:42:34. > :42:39.in control of both counties. The Conservatives replaced
:42:40. > :42:42.the Lib Dems as the biggest party in Cornwall and fancy their chances
:42:43. > :42:47.of leading a coalition here. We are going to have to wait
:42:48. > :42:50.for everyone to sit down, for the Conservative Party to sit
:42:51. > :42:54.down, discuss where our numbers are, and just look at what is going
:42:55. > :42:57.to be best for Cornwall, and who we are going to be
:42:58. > :43:00.doing business with, if we are going to be
:43:01. > :43:03.doing with anyone. Back in Devon, the fall
:43:04. > :43:06.of another big name, this time a Lib Dem,
:43:07. > :43:11.the former MP Richard Younger-Ross, who says his defeat in these local
:43:12. > :43:14.elections means he won't be There was little sign of the fight
:43:15. > :43:22.back the Lib Dems had hoped for, but for those in Cornwall
:43:23. > :43:26.who remember the pain of 2015, I just can't believe
:43:27. > :43:40.it, to be honest. I got 580-something
:43:41. > :43:44.last time in 2013. Optimism in the Ukip ranks too,
:43:45. > :43:49.despite the party's total wipe-out. I honestly don't believe
:43:50. > :43:53.Ukip is finished. We will bounce back, but at
:43:54. > :44:00.the moment the priority is Brexit. But a party that delivers
:44:01. > :44:05.on its promise - we'll still be As for Labour, its Exeter stronghold
:44:06. > :44:12.remained impregnable, a successful blends those
:44:13. > :44:17.in Cornwall are desperate to taste. Of course, it is in the tea
:44:18. > :44:22.room that you hear And plenty of talk today
:44:23. > :44:26.about what this all this means I even overheard some Labour
:44:27. > :44:29.activists saying they reckon they are in with a chance in St
:44:30. > :44:32.Ives. I have been a Labour MP in Cornwall,
:44:33. > :44:37.and we have a history, Is that going to happen
:44:38. > :44:41.this time, though? I'll be honest, I think that is
:44:42. > :44:45.unlikely, but you never know. But it's the Lib Dems who really
:44:46. > :44:49.fancy their chances in west Cornwall, though these local results
:44:50. > :44:52.projected onto the St Ives constituency don't give
:44:53. > :44:58.the Lib Dems enough on an MP. Their fate could rest
:44:59. > :45:01.in the hands of the Greens. And still rumours here of a deal
:45:02. > :45:14.between the two parties. To discuss as we are joined by the
:45:15. > :45:24.Lib Dem parliamentary candidate for a Yeovil Jo Roundell Green. He said
:45:25. > :45:27.there is little sign of a Lib Dem revival. The reality as it was
:45:28. > :45:33.pretty disastrous. An overall loss of eight seats. If I looked a
:45:34. > :45:39.Yeovil, we really did very well. We went and with six and became it with
:45:40. > :45:43.six. We have lost a leader, we have very pleased that John Osman has
:45:44. > :45:48.been replaced, and that is good for Somerset. In Yeovil in itself, we
:45:49. > :45:52.haven't really had any change. It doesn't make much difference. I can
:45:53. > :45:58.see it as a bitter pill to see the leader goal, but the reality as it
:45:59. > :46:03.was a great deal of anticipation, you saw the Lib Dem leader in the
:46:04. > :46:07.south-east a lot. This could be a resurgence. Nothing like it. It is
:46:08. > :46:11.neck and neck at the moment. The difference in the vote is 1% in
:46:12. > :46:15.favour, and really feel we are idea to one. We are going to a nest
:46:16. > :46:20.general election, and voting last week was a very good indicator that
:46:21. > :46:24.people beginning to realise that the Lib Dems are still here, we are
:46:25. > :46:28.fighting back. We are very very strong. Yeovil has always been a
:46:29. > :46:33.very strong Liberal Democrat, with Paddy Ashdown and endeavoured laws,
:46:34. > :46:39.we really strongly believe with our fantastic new candidates and county
:46:40. > :46:43.council... How many seats do you think you will take in the
:46:44. > :46:47.south-west? I think we could easily take three and possibly more. I
:46:48. > :46:51.think people are very unsure, just talking to them on the doorstep you
:46:52. > :46:54.can tell that they don't know what will happen. In the local election,
:46:55. > :46:58.people aren't necessarily focused on the national picture. And the
:46:59. > :47:05.general election the lobby, so if the go this way even and the local,
:47:06. > :47:11.it bodes very badly. I don't think it does. I know we have a very good
:47:12. > :47:12.chance in Yeovil, where we work extremely hard, and we need to fight
:47:13. > :47:17.for what we have locally. Our for what we have locally. Our
:47:18. > :47:23.aerospace engineer, R schools and NHS. Exeter again produced very good
:47:24. > :47:29.Labour result. The party seems to Labour result. The party seems to
:47:30. > :47:33.have a better the Midas touch there. Elsewhere, it was a terrible night
:47:34. > :47:35.for Labour. I was delighted that we held all of our seats in Exeter,
:47:36. > :47:39.although there was a swing to the although there was a swing to the
:47:40. > :47:47.Conservatives so we are not at all, pleasing given the results elsewhere
:47:48. > :47:49.were so bad fellas. Also, the results confirm what the opinion
:47:50. > :47:54.polls show, which is that the Conservatives are heading for up
:47:55. > :48:01.probable landslide. I think everybody fears that prospect. This
:48:02. > :48:04.extreme hard Brexit, outside the EU, people need to do what ever they can
:48:05. > :48:07.if they want a decent opposition after this election should be
:48:08. > :48:18.rallying to those opposition parties. Sheryll will say, all, nor
:48:19. > :48:24.we are not romping to victory. This is all about who covers the country
:48:25. > :48:32.on the basis of these results, it is a mountain. I agree and that is what
:48:33. > :48:40.I have just said. As you conceding defeat then? Do you think there is
:48:41. > :48:44.little prospect... There is one opposition member of Parliament at
:48:45. > :48:48.the moment. It is me and my seat is at risk. People have to vote for MPs
:48:49. > :48:53.who can be an opposition in parliament. It is very bad for
:48:54. > :48:58.democracy and by the health of our democracy given a huge challenge we
:48:59. > :49:02.face of a Brexit, over school funding, not to have a single
:49:03. > :49:07.opposition MP. It would be a disaster. The local election results
:49:08. > :49:14.were encouraging, but we don't take anything for granted. This is why
:49:15. > :49:19.you're talking it down... In message as if you want Theresa May and tag
:49:20. > :49:26.team to have a strong and stable Government and to be fighting a
:49:27. > :49:31.corner and getting the strongest possible deal for Brexit, you have
:49:32. > :49:36.to vote for the Conservative Party. Don't leave it for others. Everyone
:49:37. > :49:42.has to go out there to make sure we have a strong negotiator. It is so
:49:43. > :49:46.important. This election is so important for our country, and we
:49:47. > :49:50.can either have an strong negotiator in Brussels and Theresa May Jamie
:49:51. > :49:56.Caven who will come away with a few crumbs that the EU are prepared to
:49:57. > :50:02.offer those. -- Jeremy Corbin, who will come away. Everyone knows the
:50:03. > :50:08.Conservatives are heading for a landslide. As you happy you that
:50:09. > :50:12.Jeremy Corbyn will go to Brussels and negotiate follows? Are you
:50:13. > :50:19.saying you have confidence and your leader. You have spoken up against
:50:20. > :50:24.them for so long. You happy that time firing, his whole M is to
:50:25. > :50:31.become an opposition leader. Isn't this the problem of the last
:50:32. > :50:36.election. The Conservatives said if you vote for anyone else you will
:50:37. > :50:43.get Ed Miliband. A pupil at focused on the national picture, and this is
:50:44. > :50:50.the message that is pushing again. As like the record got stuck. Tim
:50:51. > :50:59.Farron just wants to be an opposition. I think one has to be
:51:00. > :51:03.realistic. There has to be a strong opposition, because every don't have
:51:04. > :51:12.somebody else scrutinised in what Theresa May is doing, and I worry
:51:13. > :51:15.very much. Can I finish? You need somebody to be watching what is
:51:16. > :51:21.happening to scrutinise the checks and balances. We cannot have Theresa
:51:22. > :51:24.May negotiating and not coming back, and other people watching what she
:51:25. > :51:28.is doing to make sure this is what is best for our country. I also feel
:51:29. > :51:32.very strongly behalf to do the day job. There are still gone to be
:51:33. > :51:35.people who need their benefits, housing. We need to make sure our
:51:36. > :51:39.schools and hospitals are getting the right amount of funding and that
:51:40. > :51:45.rockets fell been continued. I want to move the discussion on to a more
:51:46. > :51:48.specific issue. A reminder at the Bobby if the list of general
:51:49. > :51:51.election candidates... candidates in Yeovil,
:51:52. > :51:53.Exeter, South East Cornwall, and indeed every constituency,
:51:54. > :51:55.on the BBC website. And if you're interested
:51:56. > :51:56.in standing yourself, you've got until Thursday
:51:57. > :51:58.when nominations close. The Government's controversial plans
:51:59. > :52:00.to change school funding has aroused huge opposition
:52:01. > :52:02.within the Conservative Party. Now, in the general election
:52:03. > :52:05.campaign itself, Tory candidates, including seven hoping to be
:52:06. > :52:09.re-elected as MPs in Devon, have attacked the policy and are calling
:52:10. > :52:11.on the Prime Minister I do hereby declare that
:52:12. > :52:19.Tony Inch is duly elected. After all the gladhanding,
:52:20. > :52:23.payback time. If we're going to do
:52:24. > :52:26.a formula that makes sense, we've got to have money that
:52:27. > :52:29.actually increases in Devon, not that two thirds of the children
:52:30. > :52:35.in Devon lose their funding. It's shaping up to be
:52:36. > :52:38.one of the big issues. For years, councils in the region
:52:39. > :52:44.have moaned about how little dosh A new school funding formula
:52:45. > :52:51.that the Government was at pains to stress was fairer promised much,
:52:52. > :52:54.but in reality many schools are now facing a far harder cash crisis.
:52:55. > :53:01.If these proposals are adopted, we're going to have 15 primary
:53:02. > :53:04.schools gaining, 20 losing out, and all the secondary schools
:53:05. > :53:07.in East Devon losing out. This is clearly neither
:53:08. > :53:10.fair nor acceptable. So, fresh from delivering
:53:11. > :53:13.a local Tory landslide, grassroots Conservatives want
:53:14. > :53:17.something in return. I think we will get more money
:53:18. > :53:20.for schools, but how long it is going to take,
:53:21. > :53:22.I don't know. It depends on the Secretary
:53:23. > :53:25.of State for Education, and we understand there's a good
:53:26. > :53:30.chance that that may change. Some think the scale of the Tory
:53:31. > :53:33.victory in Thursday's local elections could
:53:34. > :53:36.lead to complacency... Was a Remainer, and now
:53:37. > :53:41.she is a Brexiteer. ..reducing the chances
:53:42. > :53:44.of any extra school cash I think, really, in County,
:53:45. > :53:50.the people have taken They haven't seen what's coming yet,
:53:51. > :53:55.and the Conservatives don't even But they were rumours
:53:56. > :54:00.last week of a U-turn, with 60 conservative backbench MPs
:54:01. > :54:05.threatening a rebellion. We have every Conservative member
:54:06. > :54:10.of Parliament in Devon writing to the Prime Minister
:54:11. > :54:13.saying something has The formula that was produced,
:54:14. > :54:18.the national formula, It's tough talk, but it
:54:19. > :54:24.doesn't end there. In the hours after the local
:54:25. > :54:27.landslide, another letter from a Devon headteacher urging
:54:28. > :54:45.parents to put pressure on Tories I think Labour had made an
:54:46. > :54:53.announcement, they will put more money into schools. I think it is 3
:54:54. > :54:56.haul schools are suffering. I don't haul schools are suffering. I don't
:54:57. > :55:02.think you addressing the issue of redistribution. The funding issue is
:55:03. > :55:09.pretty marginal one compared with the overall cuts. Overall cuts are
:55:10. > :55:13.7% at. My skills in Exeter are losing hundreds of thousands of
:55:14. > :55:17.pounds a year now. There haven't they are teachers and classroom
:55:18. > :55:20.assistants. The Conservatives in Parliament have had several
:55:21. > :55:24.opportunities to vote against us. We have had debates and vote against
:55:25. > :55:29.it, they have never done anything. Now that as an election, they are
:55:30. > :55:33.may do something. Not about the overall cuts, just about before
:55:34. > :55:36.Miller. There are 300,000 more pupils and good understanding
:55:37. > :55:47.schools in the south-west and they were in 2010. ?3 billion has gone
:55:48. > :55:52.into schools in the south-west through the pupil premium. You
:55:53. > :55:55.saying they don't deserve any money? 3 million more apprenticeships have
:55:56. > :55:59.been found since the Conservatives came in to Government. And Ben's
:56:00. > :56:02.party could have done something to party could have done something to
:56:03. > :56:05.address the failure of funding as you when they were in Government and
:56:06. > :56:17.they didn't act. Somebody has to grasp the nettle. Somebody,... There
:56:18. > :56:22.was a port in the Evening Standard that George Osborne treated out.
:56:23. > :56:26.Tory candidates everywhere and unhappy. I have to say to you that I
:56:27. > :56:31.met with Justin Greening and the last Parliament, we all met with a.
:56:32. > :56:36.She hasn't made any firm announcement yet. There
:56:37. > :56:39.consultation, and she wants to take consultation, and she wants to take
:56:40. > :56:45.it very seriously before she makes an announcement. Do you agree with
:56:46. > :56:49.the Devon candidate and former MPs who say this needs to change? I am
:56:50. > :57:01.waiting to see what the announcement adds. But we know what it means. She
:57:02. > :57:04.has consulted on their present proposals and hasn't made any
:57:05. > :57:10.announcement. It is all about fairness. It is wrong that skills
:57:11. > :57:13.and Westminster get twice as much as children and my constituency at the
:57:14. > :57:22.moment. Something has to happen and when you realign something, you
:57:23. > :57:27.always get winners and losers. You always get winners and losers. But
:57:28. > :57:31.despite rejigging the funding formula when you are cutting the
:57:32. > :57:40.budget is madness. By 300,000 pupils... Please let me and set
:57:41. > :57:43.Martyn's question. They Conservative MPs at Westminster have had numerous
:57:44. > :57:49.virginity is to stop this. They could have voted with us but never
:57:50. > :57:53.has. They are pretending it is an issue because it as an election on.
:57:54. > :57:57.It is actually the overall cuts to our schools. We invested and schools
:57:58. > :58:04.and that is what they should be doing. Yes I know, at the present
:58:05. > :58:07.proposals you right or wrong? I can't say yes or no because I
:58:08. > :58:09.haven't seen the final proposals. We will have to leave it there.
:58:10. > :58:16.Now our regular round-up of the political week in 60 seconds.
:58:17. > :58:19.Parts of north and south-east Cornwall joined St Ives in voting
:58:20. > :58:22.for new restrictions on second homes.
:58:23. > :58:27.It would be nice to see families back in the village again.
:58:28. > :58:29.Devon City Council moves forward with plans to give fishermen free
:58:30. > :58:34.GPS-equipped life jackets, and the EU is been asked to put up
:58:35. > :58:37.the hundreds and thousands of pounds needed to buy the next batch.
:58:38. > :58:40.If we could take that pain away from everything by keeping
:58:41. > :58:42.the fishermen alive, then the benefits are long-reaching
:58:43. > :58:47.Labour's candidate in Camborne and Redruth at the last general
:58:48. > :58:51.election, Michael Foster, threatens to stand against party
:58:52. > :58:56.leader Jeremy Corbyn as an independent on June 8th.
:58:57. > :59:00.Seagulls watching the PM's chips are hungry for some limelight...
:59:01. > :59:05.The Conservatives really pushed back and destroyed the Liberal Democrats.
:59:06. > :59:08...while those feeding seagulls in parts of East Devon
:59:09. > :59:13.There definitely needs to be something more stringent to stop
:59:14. > :59:29.You're obviously both delighted to hear about the Seagull fine, but I
:59:30. > :59:34.am keen to talk about the second homes issue. To be clear, this is
:59:35. > :59:39.restricting new-build homes to permanent residents. Do you agree
:59:40. > :59:42.with that? Very sensible in pockets when there's a problem, but of
:59:43. > :59:47.course the main prizes as affordability. People cannot afford
:59:48. > :59:51.to get on the property ladder, they can't afford the high level of
:59:52. > :59:57.private rents. We need a much better housing market so local people can
:59:58. > :00:01.afford both to buy and to rent. It is a problem and holiday areas, and
:00:02. > :00:07.that is a good solution, but it has not gone to solve the overall
:00:08. > :00:10.problem. I am really pleased that the neighbourhood plans have started
:00:11. > :00:16.to come forward. It has taken too long. They were introduced in 2011,
:00:17. > :00:21.I think it is right that we start looking at new belt so that people
:00:22. > :00:25.aren't building second homes as new-builds and that will hopefully
:00:26. > :00:30.help people to get on the housing ladder. The one thing that we must
:00:31. > :00:34.do, which is where we started this discussion, is make sure the economy
:00:35. > :00:41.in places like Connell improves so that wages improve and young people
:00:42. > :00:46.can actually afford to get. You would need a massive improvement in
:00:47. > :00:50.the economy to start closing the gap. Because we have gone for the
:00:51. > :00:56.last 12 years relying on European hand-outs. Just quickly, then, do
:00:57. > :01:01.you have any advice for Michael Foster standing against Jeremy
:01:02. > :01:06.Corbyn? No. None at all. You wouldn't welcome the development?
:01:07. > :01:08.People have got to do what they think is right and left, that is
:01:09. > :01:10.what I always try to do. That's the Sunday Politics
:01:11. > :01:15.in the South West. housing associations and investment,
:01:16. > :01:25.but we have run out of time, thank you. Andrew.
:01:26. > :01:32.Four weeks to go until polling day on the 8th of June, what will the
:01:33. > :01:36.party strategies be for the remaining four weeks? Let's begin
:01:37. > :01:42.with the Conservatives. Do they just try to continue to play it safe for
:01:43. > :01:46.four weeks? Yes, with this important qualification. Theresa May Corp this
:01:47. > :01:50.election to get her own personal mandate partly, partly because she
:01:51. > :01:56.thought she would win big but to get her own personal mandate. Therefore,
:01:57. > :02:01.she needs to define it. In her own interests and to do with
:02:02. > :02:05.accountability to the country. So clearly, they will not take risks
:02:06. > :02:06.when they are so far ahead in the polls. What they do say in the
:02:07. > :02:13.manifesto matters in terms of the space that she has in
:02:14. > :02:18.the coming years to define her leadership against David Cameron 's.
:02:19. > :02:23.She is a free figure, partly on the basis of what she says as to how big
:02:24. > :02:33.she wins. They cannot just play it safe and repeat their mantra of
:02:34. > :02:38.strong and stable leadership, if she is going to claim her own mandate,
:02:39. > :02:42.they need the top policy? Yes, and what is unusual about this is that
:02:43. > :02:46.the manifesto matters far more because of what they need to do with
:02:47. > :02:50.it afterwards, than in terms of whether it is going to win anybody
:02:51. > :02:54.over now. Clearly, the strategy is yes, we do have two layout out a few
:02:55. > :02:58.things, there are interesting debates as to whether, for example,
:02:59. > :03:01.they will still commit to this ambition of reducing immigration to
:03:02. > :03:06.the tens of thousands, we do not know the answer yet. It is a
:03:07. > :03:12.question on whether she is setting herself up for difficulties later
:03:13. > :03:17.on. It will be a short manifesto, I would venture to guess? It is in her
:03:18. > :03:22.interests to be as noncommittal as possible, that argues for a short
:03:23. > :03:26.manifesto but what does strike me about the Conservative campaign,
:03:27. > :03:30.aside from the ambiguity on policy, is how personal it is. I think
:03:31. > :03:35.Theresa May, in her most recent speech, referred to "My local
:03:36. > :03:38.candidates", rather than Parliamentary candidates, very much
:03:39. > :03:45.framing it as a presidential candidate in France or the USA. Not
:03:46. > :03:50.a rational on her part. Everything I hear from the MPs on the ground and
:03:51. > :03:53.the focus groups being done by the parties, is that a big chunk of the
:03:54. > :03:57.population personally identify with her. If you can wrap up Middle
:03:58. > :04:02.England into a physical object and embody it in a person, it would be
:04:03. > :04:06.her. Although Jeremy Corbyn's unpopularity accounts for a big
:04:07. > :04:10.slice of her popularity, she has done a good job of bonding with the
:04:11. > :04:15.public. We never saw that coming! But you may well be right. That is
:04:16. > :04:19.happening now. Labour say it wants the Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell
:04:20. > :04:22.to play a more prominent role in the Labour campaign, he was on The
:04:23. > :04:25.Andrew Marr Show this morning and he was asked if he was a Marxist, he
:04:26. > :04:31.denied that he was. It surprised me as I had seen tape from before
:04:32. > :04:39.saying that he was proud of it. Let's look now and then. Are you a
:04:40. > :04:43.Marxist? I believe that there is a lot to learn... Yes or no? I believe
:04:44. > :04:48.that there is a lot to learn from reading capital, that is recommended
:04:49. > :04:52.not only by me but measuring economists as well. I also believe
:04:53. > :05:00.that in the long tradition of the Labour Party... We need to demand
:05:01. > :05:04.systemic change. I am a Marxist. This is a classic crisis of the
:05:05. > :05:10.economy. A capitalist crisis. I've been waiting for this for a
:05:11. > :05:15.generation! That was from about four years ago. No, I'm not a Marxist,
:05:16. > :05:19.yes, I am a Marxist... I've been waiting for the Marxist revolution
:05:20. > :05:23.my whole life... Does this kind of thing matter? Yes, but in fairness,
:05:24. > :05:29.I think he is a really good interviewee. The Shadow Cabinet have
:05:30. > :05:34.untested figures in a national campaign. None have ever been
:05:35. > :05:38.exposed at any level to a national media campaign that they are about
:05:39. > :05:43.to experience. He is the best interviewee. In fairness to him,
:05:44. > :05:48.when he gave that clip four years ago, I bet he never dream that he
:05:49. > :05:52.would be in a senior front bench position. But the background is
:05:53. > :05:55.clear. They are of the left, and I think they would all have described
:05:56. > :06:02.it. Jeremy Corbyn would have done, he is close to being like Tony Benn.
:06:03. > :06:08.There are about four Labour campaign is being fought in this election.
:06:09. > :06:11.Their campaign, the old Shadow Cabinet, campaigning in
:06:12. > :06:16.constituencies, but not identifying with that campaign. There is the
:06:17. > :06:21.former Labour leader Tony Blair. Is it damaging? I think so, if they
:06:22. > :06:26.could be damaged any further, I could see all of the Labour MPs with
:06:27. > :06:29.their heads in their hands. What I am hearing from Labour MPs is that
:06:30. > :06:33.there is not one of them who do not feel that they have a horrendous
:06:34. > :06:37.battle on their hands. These will be very individual local campaigns,
:06:38. > :06:41.where local MPs are winning despite the party leadership and not because
:06:42. > :06:48.of it. Already, talk is turning to what happens next. Is there anyway
:06:49. > :06:53.that Jeremy Corbyn, giving a horrendous set of general election
:06:54. > :06:59.results as many anticipate, may stay on all the same? It is not clear
:07:00. > :07:03.that even if the polls are right, that Mr Corbyn will go? John
:07:04. > :07:08.McDonnell implied it might not be the case but previously, he said it
:07:09. > :07:13.would be. What do you make of reports that the Labour strategy is
:07:14. > :07:16.not, I cannot quite believe I am saying this, not to win seats but
:07:17. > :07:22.maximise a share of the vote. If they do better than Ed Miliband with
:07:23. > :07:27.30.5% of the vote, they believe they live to fight another day? Yes, it
:07:28. > :07:30.reminded me of Tony Benn's speech after the 1983 election where they
:07:31. > :07:35.said as bad as the Parliamentary defeat was there were 8 million
:07:36. > :07:43.votes for socialism. A big section of public opinion voted for that
:07:44. > :07:48.manifesto. I wonder whether that is Corbyn's supporters best chance of
:07:49. > :07:53.holding onto power. Whether they can say that those votes are a platform
:07:54. > :07:57.on which we can build. That said, even moderate Labour MPs and
:07:58. > :08:01.desperate for a quick leadership contest. I hear a lot of them say
:08:02. > :08:05.that they would like to leave it for one year. Maybe have Tom Watson as
:08:06. > :08:09.an acting Labour leader. He would still have a mandate. Give the top
:08:10. > :08:13.party a chance to regroup and get rid of some of its problems and
:08:14. > :08:17.decide where it stands on policy. Most importantly, for potential
:08:18. > :08:20.candidates to show what they are made of, rather than lurching
:08:21. > :08:25.straight into an Yvette Cooper Coronation. 30 seconds on the
:08:26. > :08:33.Liberal Democrats, their strategy was to mop up the Remain vote.
:08:34. > :08:40.Uncertain about the Brexit party in demise. Ukip. The remain as have a
:08:41. > :08:46.dilemma, the little Democrats are not a strong enough vessel with 89
:08:47. > :08:51.MPs to risk all ongoing for them -- the Liberal Democrats. Labour do not
:08:52. > :08:56.know where they stand on Brexit. There is not a robust alternative
:08:57. > :09:04.vessel for what is now a pro-Brexit Conservative Party. At the moment.
:09:05. > :09:06.Four weeks to go, but not for France...
:09:07. > :09:09.France has been voting since early this morning, and we should get
:09:10. > :09:12.a first estimate of who will be the country's next President
:09:13. > :09:16.Just to warn you there are some flashing images coming up.
:09:17. > :09:18.The choice in France is between a centre-left liberal
:09:19. > :09:19.reformer Emmanuel Macron and a right-wing nationalist
:09:20. > :09:22.Marine Le Pen - both have been casting their votes this morning.
:09:23. > :09:24.The two candidates topped a field of 11 presidential
:09:25. > :09:27.hopefuls in the first round of elections last month.
:09:28. > :09:29.The campaign has been marked by its unpredictability,
:09:30. > :09:35.and in a final twist on Friday evening, just before
:09:36. > :09:37.campaigning officially ended, Mr Macron's En Marche! group said
:09:38. > :09:42.it had been the victim of a "massive" hack,
:09:43. > :09:45.with a trove of documents released online.
:09:46. > :09:48.The Macron team said real documents were mixed up with fake ones,
:09:49. > :09:50.and electoral authorities warned media and the public that spreading
:09:51. > :10:01.details of the leaks would breach strict election rules.
:10:02. > :10:02.I'm joined now from Paris by the journalist
:10:03. > :10:16.As I left Paris recently, everybody told me that there was the consensus
:10:17. > :10:21.that Mr Macron would win, and win pretty comfortable you. Is there any
:10:22. > :10:26.reason to doubt that? -- pretty comfortably. I don't think so, there
:10:27. > :10:31.have been so many people left and right, former candidates who have
:10:32. > :10:35.decided that it was more important to vote for Macron, even if it was
:10:36. > :10:40.agreed with him, then run the risk of having Marine Le Pen as
:10:41. > :10:45.president. I think the spread is now 20 points, 60% to Macron, 40% to Le
:10:46. > :10:51.Pen. So outside of the margin of error that it would take something
:10:52. > :10:55.huge for this to be observed. If the polls are right and Mr Macron wins,
:10:56. > :11:02.he has to put together a government, and in May there is a Coronation,
:11:03. > :11:07.then he faces parliamentary elections in June and could face a
:11:08. > :11:12.fractured parliament where he does not have a clear majority for his
:11:13. > :11:17.reforms. He could then faced difficulties in getting his
:11:18. > :11:21.programme through? I think that right now, with how things are
:11:22. > :11:26.looking, considering you have one half of the Republican party, the
:11:27. > :11:32.Conservative Party, they are making clear sides, not only that they want
:11:33. > :11:38.to support Macron but are supporting him actively. It means looking at
:11:39. > :11:42.the equivalent of the German party, the great coalition. Depending on
:11:43. > :11:45.how many seats established parties keep in the house committee may very
:11:46. > :11:58.well have a Republican Prime Minister, rather than having an
:11:59. > :12:05.adversarial MP, he may have someone who is relatively unknown outside of
:12:06. > :12:11.France, and a young woman. Contended that lost the Parez mayorship three
:12:12. > :12:17.years ago. She is a scientist and has been secretary of state. She
:12:18. > :12:23.would be an interesting coalition Prime Minister. Finally, Marine Le
:12:24. > :12:28.Pen, if she goes down to defeat a night, does she have the stomach and
:12:29. > :12:36.ambition, and the energy, to try it all again in 2022? She has all of
:12:37. > :12:43.that. The question is, would they let her? How badly would she lose?
:12:44. > :12:50.Her niece, now 27, a hard-working and steady person, unlike Marine Le
:12:51. > :12:54.Pen, who flunked her do paid -- debate, her niece may decide that
:12:55. > :13:02.2022 is her turn. Yet another Le Pen! All right, we will see. Just
:13:03. > :13:04.five years to wait, but only a few hours until the results of the
:13:05. > :13:09.election tonight. And we will get the exit polls here
:13:10. > :13:13.on the BBC. Given the exit polls will give as a pretty fair
:13:14. > :13:15.indication of what the result is going to be tonight. That will be on
:13:16. > :13:19.BBC news. That's all for today. The Daily Politics will cover every
:13:20. > :13:21.turn of this election campaign, And we're back here on BBC One
:13:22. > :13:26.at our usual time Next Sunday. Remember - if it's Sunday,
:13:27. > :13:28.it's the Sunday Politics. Our crack team of experts
:13:29. > :14:12.use pioneering research ..to how to help your pet
:14:13. > :14:25.lose weight. She's got right dangly earrings
:14:26. > :14:27.with sausages on them. Celebrate one of Britain's
:14:28. > :14:32.greatest comedy heroes with Oh, what a lovely thing to say!
:14:33. > :14:43.I'm filling up again now. Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!
:14:44. > :14:44.Ooh, in't she wonderful? If you're not careful, you'll end up
:14:45. > :14:44.playing this sexy little blonde The East End girl who became the
:14:45. > :14:47.nation's favourite. We don't know what it is,
:14:48. > :14:53.but she definitely has... Something.